Meghmani Organics Limited (NSE: MOL) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 12, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Ankit Patel — Chairman and Managing Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Ashwath Rajan — Analyst
Viraj Mehta — Analyst
Harshit Khadka — Analyst
Ankit Gupta — Analyst
Vivek Patel — Analyst
Raj Vyas — Analyst
Shweta — Analyst
Aditya — Analyst
Darshika Khemka — Analyst
Rohit Sinha — Analyst
Rudraksh Raheja — Analyst
Ayush Agarwal — Analyst
Aman Morya — Analyst
Madhur Rathi — Analyst
Dhwanil — Analyst
Pankaj Motwani — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Make Money Organics Limited conference call hosted by Aryan Capital Markets Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashwath Rajan from Ariant Capital Markets Limited. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Ashwath Rajan — Analyst
Thank you. Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the Q4FY25 earnings conference call of Mincmini Organics Limited. On behalf of Aryan Capital, I would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host the call today. From the management we have Mr. Ankit Patel, Chairman and Managing Director. Mr. Gujrin Singh Chahal, Chief Financial Officer and Mr. Nishant Vyaz from the Investor Relations. Now without further ado, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Ankit Patel for opening remarks. Over to you sir.
Ankit Patel — Chairman and Managing Director
Thank you. Ashwag Ji. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us on our Q4 and FY25 earnings call. I believe you have got a chance to go through the financial results and inverse presentation uploaded on the stock exchanges and the website in FY25. Starting from second quarter onward, we started witnessing healthy volume growth in both the segments implying a gradual recovery in overall demand. In order to leverage this positive momentum, one of our key focus area was to work on enhancing our product mix. I’m glad to report that the strategic move has worked significantly well and the same is also reflected in our revenue and profitability for the year.
Another key focus area for the company has been working toward increasing its renewable energy consumption. We already have four windmills for the captive consumption and have power purchase agreement. Also for the captive policy to further strengthen, we are now working on wind solar hybrid power supply project having up to 4.5 megawatt hybrid capacity. This will help company to reach more than 50% of its IT is utilization towards renewable energy. Moving to our financial performance in Q4FY25 on standalone basis our revenue was up by 26% YoY at about 500 crore and our EBITDA grew to nearly 65 crore compared to 10 crore in the same quarter previous year.
Profit after tax stood at 34 crore against the loss of 0.4 crore in the same quarter previous year. This was primarily on the back of improved product mix and better utilization of the plants in both the segments. For the financial year ended 31st March 2025, we reported 30% YoY growth in revenue reaching at about 2000 crore and achieved a turnaround in profitability posting a profit of after tax of 66 crore against the loss of 57 crore in the corresponding previous year. EBITDA grew to 180 crore compared to 9.5 crore in the corresponding previous year. If we talk about the revenue mix in FY25, crop protection constitutes about 72% of the total revenue while the balance 28% comes from the pigment segment.
Now let us look at our segment wise performance in FY25 in crop protection, segment production stood at about 42,000 metric ton which is up by 14% YoY and the capacity utilization for the segment stood at about 76%. Revenue and EBITDA for the segment was around 1450 crore and 177 crore which is up by 34% and 301% YoY respectively. For pigment segment production stood at about 15,000 tonnes which is up by 11% YoY and the capacity utilization stood at about 46%. The segment reported revenue of 553 crore which is up by 20%. YoY and EBITDA stood at about 27% compared to negative EBITDA of 6.6 crore in the previous year.
Moving to our crop nutrition segment, we have reached self sufficiency in FY25 marking a critical milestone in our journey. Nonetheless, we remain committed on conducting extensive field activities with farmers showcasing the efficacy of the make money nano urea on different crops. Additionally, we also plan to expand our product portfolio by adding about two to three new products in FY26 which will further strengthen our market position in titanium dioxide. We have established a good customer base and are currently catering to the customers from ceramic, rubber, paint, plastic and textile industry. However, prices continue to remain under intense pressure due to aggressive dumping by China.
To address this, DETR has recommended anti dumping duty on TIO2 imports from China and the final notification by the Ministry of Finance was received on 10th of May which is last Saturday. The Ministry of Finance has imposed anti dumping duty of $460 to $681 per metric ton of titanium dioxide getting imported from China providing a much needed relief to the domestic players. We see the actual impact of antidumping coming from quarter three onwards once the channel inventory will be cleared simultaneously. We are also targeting the export market for the better realization wherever there is an anti dumping duty on Chinese tio 2.
So to conclude our core segment. So to conclude our core segments have regained the growth momentum. Our crop nutrition segment is also now self sustained anti dumping duty has been imposed on titanium dioxide from China. Considering all these factors we are very positive to regain our normal double digit growth trajectory which we had demonstrated throughout all these years. Lastly, our long term growth perspective remains intact given our state of the art infrastructure, plant compatibility, wider product range and the geographical reach. With this I hand over the call to the moderator to open the floor for questions and answers.
Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with a question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press Star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Viraj Mehta from Enigma. Please go ahead.
Viraj Mehta
Yeah. Hi Ankit. Congratulations for good set of numbers. My first question was on PIO2 with this anti dumping. Whatever the prices were of PIO2 let’s say around 160 rupees. Have you seen any improvement in prices? And once this is fully functional how much improvement in per PV realization you think we will have?
Ankit Patel
Yes Viraj Bhai, with this antidumping it is a very positive move. The market was already knowing that the antidumping duty is going to come. So because of that factor people imported good amount of material from China. So there is some channel inventory. We hope slowly, gradually the price will start moving up. So I think today is the first day. Last week only we received on Saturday. So our team will be in the market to evaluate the factor. But on an average we feel the price will go up by about 40 to 45 rupees.
Viraj Mehta
That’s like 20% plus.
Ankit Patel
Hello.
Viraj Mehta
Yeah. That is 20% plus change in pricing. Right?
Ankit Patel
25% change in pricing. Correct.
Viraj Mehta
And that we fail to assume that. Everything then directly slows down to the bottom line.
Ankit Patel
It will definitely help to improve the bottom line. Because at the current pricing level it was a very difficult to run the plant and to recover the cost. But with the anti damping duty we are positive that there will be much improvement in the profitability.
Viraj Mehta
Right. And as far as agrochem is concerned we actually in spite of extreme pressure in the market in agrochemicals especially we have done significantly better even quarter quarter in terms of margins. How do you think about this? Like is this one off or like what’s the sustainable margin you think we will do next year?
Ankit Patel
So Viraj, during the good time the margins were much better. But we believe we’ll be doing the margin for the crop protection segment about 15 to 16% for the current financial year.
Viraj Mehta
Do you mean EBITDA or EBIT that you report?
Ankit Patel
Ebitda. Ebitda. Okay. So then we will see some moderation in margins on a. On a consolidated basis compared to Q4.
Viraj Mehta
Yes. Okay. Thank you so much and I’ll come back in the queue.
Viraj Mehta
Thank you.
operator
The next question comes from the line of Harshit Kada from Robo Capital. Please go ahead.
Harshit Khadka
Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes, yes, thank you.
Ankit Patel
We can hear you.
Harshit Khadka
Thank you. Sir. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I wanted to ask if we are on track to do thousand crores from the MPP plant by FY27 and also how much revenue are we currently generating from the MPP plant?
Ankit Patel
Harshit Bhaik. Now the agrochemical segment, crop protection segment is very much on track from the growth point of view. We believe going forward over a period of next three years we’ll be growing as per our plan. And the major growth will come from the multi purpose plant. So it is difficult to mention at this level that whether will be able to achieve the 1000 crore top line from the new plan. But I think by FY27 or 28 for sure we should be able to achieve that kind of growth plan. And for the current year, last financial year from the multi purpose plan we generated close to 250 crore revenue.
Harshit Khadka
Okay. So thank you. So we clocked 12% margins this quarter. So is this sustainable going forward?
Ankit Patel
So in the crop protection segment it is difficult to mention on quarter, on quarter basis looking at the seasonality but on year basis we are quite confident.
Harshit Khadka
So I was asking on a console basis we clocked 12% EBITDA margins this quarter. So would that be sustainable going forward?
Ankit Patel
I think yeah. So it will remain in double digit. Yes.
Harshit Khadka
All right. Thank you sir. Do we have any titanium dioxide numbers to share right now?
Harshit Khadka
I think in the next quarter once the anti damping duty will be completely implemented in a way in the market point of view we’ll be able to give you better idea all. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Rohit Sana from Sunidi Securities. Please go ahead.
Rohit Sinha
Yeah, thank you for taking my question sir. And congratulations for good set of number. So one is on this crop protection side as you have Mentioned that for this new MPP plant we got around 250 crore kind of revenue. So what kind of utilization was there?
Ankit Patel
So I think the utilizers is in the range of about 45%. Okay, okay. And that, that, that is only what you are mentioning that it will reach up to optimum or you can say 90% by 2728 to get that thousand crore. Okay. And secondly on the side also if you can share what was the utilization level for at this time hopefully which will improve different. Yeah.
Ankit Patel
The utilization level for the titanium dioxide was very very low because there was a very high pressure of dumping from China. I think now once the anti dumping is announced by the finance ministry it will take two to three months to get it absorbed thoroughly in the market. So I think now gradually the utilization should improve. So we believe the real result will come somewhere in the second half.
Rohit Sinha
Okay. Okay. But still if we say that the prices are the required prices which we are looking is in the market. So can we scale up the utilization level to 60, 70% within a quarter or it will take a gradual process.
Ankit Patel
So I think we want to do it as soon as possible. But as I mentioned still there is a channel inventory which will take some time to get it clear. So we have seen in other segments also that it takes normally two to three months. But now we will be pushing our marketing team so that we can slowly gradually improve our production and realization as well.
Rohit Sinha
Okay. Okay. And one question sir. On the segmental side in the other business we have some incremental revenue for this quarter around 20 crore kind of number. So is that from the nano urea side or any other revenue there?
Ankit Patel
It is from the make money Crop Nutrition limited which is other subsidiary. So there is a nano urea and some other products as well in in. That business and this kind of can continue or in this quarter. So I think this is not sustainable. It is one of its kind. So as we have been telling it can generate EBITDA margin of close to 20%. So we are committed for 20%.
Rohit Sinha
Okay. And sir, last on the nano urea side also I mean we are also thinking of an export opportunity in there. And I think still the utilization level obviously would be on the lower side as acceptance are getting gradual getting that pace. So I mean what kind of you can say order or revenue projection. We are estimating from this mining area for 26, 27.
Ankit Patel
So I think Rohit Bhai, from the export point of view also we are very bullish for nano urea. We are doing field activity with various customers in different markets. We are working in close to 35 to 40 different countries right now. From the development point of view, in few markets we have received trial orders which has already taken place in the last financial year. I think slowly, gradually as there will be success in the numbers over a period of next two to three years. We see significant growth taking place in this segment also.
Rohit Sinha
Okay. And one last question sir, sorry to continue but just on the debt side, I mean with this TiO2 benefit coming in and other segments are doing well. So can we expect that reduction in FY26 or it will more or less will remain in the similar range?
Ankit Patel
There will definitely there will be a reduction actually. And long term debt we have roughly 442 as on 31st March and next year we will be paying roughly 160 crore.
Rohit Sinha
Okay. From that 440. It will go down by 160. Okay. In this financial year. Okay, great. First, thank you. Industrial success. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ankit Gupta from Bamboo Capital. Please go ahead.
Ankit Gupta
Thanks for the opportunity. So first come.
Ankit Patel
I’m sorry to interrupt. Ankit, could you please be a little louder? Thank you.
Ankit Gupta
So thanks for the opportunity and congratulations for a very good set of numbers. So on the agriculture side, if you can talk about, you know, this is the second quarter where we have delivered almost 15% plus kind of EBITDA margins. So you know, overall industry it seems has improved. If you can also like talk about the industry scenario both from, you know, demand perspective as well as pricing perspective. And second question on that, on the same second, was it that some of our products have seen increasing prices and we have benefited from that or it’s across the product, the demand has increased and we have benefited all across.
Ankit Patel
So thank you. The thing is last two years we already know there was a significant heavy inventory in the global market and we as a make money for us Almost more than 80% revenue comes from the export segment. So we were very much impacted by that. And that high price inventory took almost two years time to get it clear. Now we can say not major inventory is left in different markets and there is a good demand coming up from different markets. Also the prices of raw material and the sales price are also very much stable though they are running at still at the bottom level.
But both the prices, raw material prices are also low and the sales prices are also low. So far there is no improvement in the sales price. But we believe that going forward, once demand is improving, there should be little bit Improvement in the prices. But China point of view still there is a heavy production capacity is there in China. So it is creating a problem. They are under huge pressure because of the tariff also. So it is not helping in improving the price. But we are very bullish from the crop protection segment point of view.
We will be growing in double digit from top line as well as bottom line point of view.
operator
We’ll move on to the next participant as the previous one has dropped. The next question comes from the line of Rudraja from I thought financial consulting. Please go ahead.
Rudraksh Raheja
Thanks for the opportunity sir. Am I audible?
Ankit Patel
Yes Rudrakshji.
Rudraksh Raheja
Yeah. Sir, could you comment on the current pricing trend in CPC blues and where do we stand Correctly reserves its peak in 2022.
Ankit Patel
Compared to 2022 the prices have dropped to almost on an average by 40 to 45%.
Rudraksh Raheja
Okay answer. What’s the outlook for the future?
Ankit Gupta
So we don’t see the prices like what we saw in 2122. That was unrealistic pricing scenario. Everyone made very good money but we don’t see that kind of prices going forward. There will be improvement, no doubt about it. But not up to that level.
Rudraksh Raheja
Understood sir. And sir, impact of US tariffs on this segment for Indian manufacturers in the blue segment.
Ankit Patel
So when it comes to chemical industry that is mainly India and China. So I think when you analyze still there is negotiation going on between India and us, between China and us. So recently you might have heard China has dropped for the next three months they have dropped on China tariff from 145% to 30%. But still it is higher than India. And our analysis say no matter what happens India will have a little advantage over China in terms of tariff. So which is going to be positive.
Rudraksh Raheja
Got it sir. Got it. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vivek Patel from FECOM family office. Please go ahead.
Vivek Patel
Very good afternoon sir. I’m open on order B.
Ankit Patel
Please be a little louder. Vivek. Thank you.
Vivek Patel
Yes, thank you. Thanks for the opportunity Sir, a few of my questions have been answered. I just have left with a few. So EBITDA margins have moved up recently. And is it expected that these margins will expand by 2,3 percentage points in the coming quarter onwards or over the next full financial year.
Vivek Patel
So I think we see EBITDA margin expansion. We always strive for that. But looking at the current scenario I think we have reached at better level. It will be now difficult to improve the margin further in this financial year. And nextly any updates on nano urea what would have been the capacity utilization and how does the product acceptance?
Ankit Patel
So as far as the nano area capacity is concerned, we have got pretty large capacity and because of that huge capacity our current utilization is running very low. But now there is a good acceptance in India in different states. Lot of field activity we have been doing. Even state governments are also helping coming up with the different states. We are also doing field activity and demonstration in more than 35 countries with various customers and in few markets. We have started receiving trial orders and we are very optimistic for nano urea business. And as a segment we will keep on expanding product market also which will drive the growth in the future.
So when would one expect the utilizations to move up to say 50%? Considering the capacity, I think it will take another two to three years for sure to reach the capacity utilization by more than 50%.
Vivek Patel
Wonderful. Thank you sir. Thanks a lot all over. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Araj Vyas from TM Investment Technologies. Please go ahead.
Raj Vyas
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on the website of numbers. So I wanted to ask regarding for Legcom, what are the future in terms of guidance that you can provide in terms of top line bottom. But Obviously you said 20% like double digit growth.
Ankit Patel
But last time 20% of revenue growth. So we can expect more than that or it is more or less in same line. So I think from the revenue growth point of view we will be in the range of about 15 to 20% revenue growth growth for the current financial year.
Raj Vyas
Okay. And this titanium dioxide plant, I guess last time it was in the con call you mentioned that it was operating at 35% of capacity. Right. And at that point of time the revenue potential was roughly around 250 to 300 crore. So what will be the expectation of this plant like? Will it be increasing more further and what will be the revenue potential of the same? If you could answer that.
Ankit Patel
So Rajwa, revenue now anti dumping has come up in titanium dioxide which will help for the better realization. And we will be increasing our production now so that once the market absorbs the price, we will be able to sell more quantity. So that is what the target is. So currently even at the current situation the utilization remains low. But I think over a period of next two to three months utilization will improve step by step and on year as a whole basis. Revenue point of view, I think in the next quarter we’ll be able to give you better idea because Anti dumping announcement by the mine by the Ministry has taken a little more time compared to what we expected earlier. So. But now finally it has come. So that is positive. So we’ll be able to give you idea in the next quarters.
Raj Vyas
Okay. And you’re also like to export these products. We are also targeting certain countries or like as and when you get the orders.
Ankit Patel
There is an anti dumping duty on Chinese Tio2 in Europe, in Brazil, in USA there is already extra tariff on Chinese goods. So these are the three main markets where we also have a good presence relatively so in our current customer base. We have already started doing the marketing and sampling of our product approval and everything has been going on. So we expect that in the export market also we’ll be targeting some quantity.
Raj Vyas
Okay. And last question with respect to a debt free status. So I guess maybe by this year or like by FY27 we can expect a company to get debt free.
Ankit Patel
At standalone. We mentioned by 2627 it will be debt free. Okay. And on consolidated basis. On consolidated basis. Consolidated basis it will take time because in KCLS and MCNL so amount may not be significant but it is for one plus five years. So it will continue for another two years.
Raj Vyas
Okay, understood. Yeah, that’s it. Thank you.
Ankit Patel
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shweta from Aryan Capital Market. Please go ahead.
Shweta
Yeah, Good afternoon sir. Hope I’m audible.
Ankit Patel
Yes.
Shweta
Sir. My question is regarding multi purpose plant. So what’s the current utilization rate and the timeline for reaching optimal capacity and any new insecticides?
Ankit Patel
We are seeing the strong demand. So current utilization for the multipurpose plant is close to 45% and it will take another two to three years to reach at about 75 to 80% capacity utilization point of view, new products in the crop protection segment we have already introduced a lot of new products in last two years time. So our target is to, you know first get registration of those products into different different market sweat first. So at the same time we keep on adding and doing new product development in our R and D. So those things will keep on going. But I think the current basket what we have done in the last two years which help to grow the company significantly over a period of next two to three years time.
Shweta
Okay. And regarding the strategy to increase market share in Brazil, any plans to. Because you have mentioned that you are planning to establish subsidiary over there and. And so can you give some brief on this?
Ankit Patel
Sure. So we are already working on the same. The currently the final approval is at the RBI Level So which we expect anytime once that we receive it, we plan to implement a subsidiary company in Brazil. Lot of registrations are going on as a make money in Brazil. And so we are very optimistic from the growth point of view as far as the Brazil market market for make money is concerned.
Shweta
So how much growth we expected from. From over there?
Ankit Patel
I think every year will be keep on growing on 15 to 20% year on year. Okay.
Shweta
Okay. And one last question regarding crop nutrition portfolio. Among the eight new products we have added so which one have Sean the most promising market response.
Ankit Patel
Our target always remains nano urea. The other products, we are keeping them as a basket of product. Because when we go in the market we cannot go with just one product. So definitely it helps the product. But as a management, our core focus remains with the nano area.
Shweta
Okay, so regarding the Neymar area plant, so what’s. What are the. What are the production targets for FY26?
Ankit Patel
Production capacity is very high. So it’s a pretty large capacity. So there as far as the target for the production is concerned it’s. We have not taken any target for the production. We have taken the target for the sales point of view. So here a lot of field activity and development work is going on. So in the current last financial year, whatever sales we have done it is because of the development activity, whatever we have done. So every year there will be a growth in the different markets India, different states as well as globally also different market.
Shweta
Okay, so. So the nano business, what is what has been the initial farmer feedback? Because startingly I think we have to most of the marketing strategy and because farmers are do not know about this much. So what is the, what has been the initial farmer feedback regarding in many way now.
Ankit Patel
So Shwetaji, when you ask farmers there are different. If the farmer has not used properly without any proper guidance then their feedback is not positive. But that is why we have been doing the field activities showcasing the demonstration how to use product, when to use what dosage. So you know which we do it for our crop protection products regularly. So similarly we have been doing for the nano urea now because when it comes to the fertilizer farmers they are not given proper education by other companies who launch nano urea. They tag the product with the normal urea and force them to use it.
So without proper knowledge, proper application, if they use it then the results are not good. But with the proper knowledge and proper application the results are fantastic. And whenever we are showcasing the filtra demonstrations farmer have seen the positive results they have understood the product very well and slowly, gradually the acceptance is coming very well.
Shweta
Okay. Thank you so much sir for your kind reply and congratulations for the future. Thank you.
Ankit Patel
Thank you. Thank you so much.
operator
The next question comes from the line of Ayush Agarwal from from MAPL Value Investing Fund. Please go ahead.
Ayush Agarwal
Yeah, good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity. I hope I’m audible.
Ankit Patel
Yes, thank you.
Ayush Agarwal
Yeah, so I understand that you might not want to commit on numbers for TiO2 just as of now but getting a sense we were also doing the phase two expansion to take the capacity to 33,000 metric tons of is that expansion over.
Ankit Patel
So IVG the CapEx, whatever we did, we did it from the first phase and second phase considering both the phases in mind. So for the expansion in capacity now, not major capex is required. We did it in the first phase itself. Unfortunately the market was not reacting very well from the pricing point of view. There was a huge dumping from China and because of that we initiated anti dumping in the last financial year it took more time but now finally it has come. So with the current anti dumping duty, our utilization for the first phase, we would like to utilize it in a better way.
Once we achieve better utilization in the first phase by doing small modification, we’ll increase the capacity. Okay. Current capacity is only 16,500 tons.
Ayush Agarwal
Correct. Okay, understood. So second question, sorry, follow up on that just to get a sense, how long will it take to, you know, double the capacity to 33,000 tons?
Ankit Patel
I received. Our current focus is on the first phase, 16,500. So let us first focus on the first phase rather than going towards the second phase. So once we utilize that in a proper manner then we’ll be giving you the feedback and idea about the second phase.
Ayush Agarwal
The second question is on the parasol segment. What we have seen is that China has started importing beautiful products and there are a couple of players in India who export in a major way to China. Do you think that will also affect our market? Like if they’re that aggressive in our market and how given Chinese players are already getting aggressive in the global market. So if you can throw some light on the pirate market because the dynamics are. Then when we bought a.
Ankit Patel
Yes, China has imposed anti dumping duty on cybermethrin coming out of India. It’s correct. And on different companies different amount percentage has been imposed. We are not the lowest but we are the second lowest. There will be some impact on other companies. As far as make money is concerned, our revenue from China is not that strong. Significant. It’s very very small. So we don’t see as a make money there will be much impact. But other players who were exporting in a big way, they will be impacted.
Ayush Agarwal
But those players will then try to enter our market or disturb our market. Do you not see that happening?
Ankit Patel
There is a possibility that those players will enter into other markets. But agrochemical as you know being the regulated product, it is not easy to enter immediately. They need to do the registration, regulatory approval and at the current level, you know the siphon, methane and all these are old products. So whenever you go to the market and customer, if you try to push this old product then they are not much interested. They want to focus on new products. They don’t want to focus on the old products.
Ayush Agarwal
Got it. You know how fierce is now China in the parathoid market because earlier they had vacated it and India became the leader. But now it seems like they are reentering the market. So any sense on that?
Ankit Patel
So China is never competitive in this range of products. That is why they have imposed anti dumping duty on the Indian producers. As far as the other markets in the export is concerned, China is not going to be competitive. It is always India. So this anti dumping will only impact Indian producers who were selling in China only up to that level. Nothing much.
Ayush Agarwal
Understood. The first question is on a new product. In the previous call you have mentioned product left with dandy am I and other products renewed products where margins are a little higher and we want to utilize the multi product plant for those products. How is the scenario in such products like is there channel inventory or how are the prices? Just trying to get a sense how these new products can evolve over the next 12 years.
Ankit Patel
So I think we are very optimistic as far as new products are concerned. Lot of registrations are going on for all these new products in different different markets. So over a period of next two years majority of the growth will come from this new product.
Ayush Agarwal
Okay. And fair to assume that in the agrochemical basket these products would have a little higher margin than the previous product.
Ankit Patel
I would say in the current market scenario, yes, we try to realize little better price, better profitability but margins are under pressure. No doubt about it. So overall we believe that we will be in the range of what? 15 to 15%.
Ayush Agarwal
Understood. Just a clarification to the previous participants. You mentioned that the new MMP plant did 250 crores in FY25. Is that correct?
Ankit Patel
That’s correct. So the new MPP multi product multipurpose plant has we generated 250 crore revenue from that.
Ashwath Rajan
And you also then mentioned to the other participants that it is at 45% utilization. So does this mean that you know MVP can only do 500 crore sales?
Ayush Agarwal
Because earlier we were in the thinking that it would do 1000 crore plus.
Ankit Patel
It will do 1000 crore because of different product mix prices are different. So it is the currently the product what we are producing at a higher capacity. Those are relatively low price. But we have got. So on an average we believe we will generate more than thousand crore revenue.
Ayush Agarwal
Understood? Understood. So final question. Maybe the CFOfer want to take this in the results. Under segment results we have shown 20 crore PBIT from other other segments on a 4044 crore revenue. So where is that coming from?
Ankit Patel
That is coming from our subsidiary make Money Crop Nutrition Ltd. MCNLS.
Ayush Agarwal
Okay, so it’s so high margin business
Ankit Patel
. It is not that much higher margin business. But there was an opportunity. So we have been able to generate better profitability. So but on an average it will have a 20% EBITDA margin.
Ayush Agarwal
Understood. Final question on the pigment segment as a whole. So for the full year pigment segment reported a 55 crore segment loss. I am assuming that TiO2 would be a part of this, Is that correct?
Ankit Patel
Correct. TiO2 is part of this.
Ayush Agarwal
So if I want to understand how much profitability we generated from TTC green and blue. Just to get a sense of where we are on that business. What would be contribution from profit contribution from those two business and losses from TiO2 business. So in the conventional with this pigment green and pigment blue. As I mentioned in my speech, we generated ebitda of about 27 crore in.
Ankit Patel
The last financial year.
Ayush Agarwal
Okay. Okay. Great. Sir, thanks for patiently answering my questions. I’ll be happy. Thank you very much.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Aditya from Securities Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Aditya
Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I had a question on your thylacine and pigment business. So if you could just help us understand what would be the pricing and volume growth which you witnessed this quarter for that business? Volume growth?
Ankit Patel
As we have mentioned, there is a growth of about 11% year as a whole. And as far as the prices realization or improvement in the prices is concerned, There is not very significant price improvement. I would say it is more or less flattish. There may be 2 to 4% year and there are.
Aditya
What is your outlook on the pricing for this business? Is it that the demand is low which is why we are not getting higher prices? Or is it because there are increased capacities because of which there is excess competition. And the price in this segment it.
Ankit Patel
Is mainly because of the oversupply. There are a lot of small, small unconventional players. We being one of the large players. It is difficult to compete with the small small players where they have different ways and means of running the business which we cannot follow. So our cost is high compared to those small players. And as we have been telling as a management, we are not investing anything on the conventional old pigment business. We want to run it at optimum level. So that is what the target is.
Aditya
Expect you know, this double date volume group to continue in this business.
Ankit Patel
So as far as the segment is there, it is relatively big segment. It generates about 550 to 600 crore revenue. So. So there will not be much growth happening in this segment. And profitability wise also it will be in the EBITDA would be in the range of about 8 to 10%
Aditya
. Because I believe pre Covid this business used to be a double digit margin business for us.
Ankit Patel
Correct, it used to be double digit margin. But in last three to four years there has been significant capacity expansion by other companies. Because during the good days when you are making very good margin it is very difficult. People don’t have capability of thinking and whether the market is growing or not because once they see the profitability 13, 14, 15% they want to increase the capacity. But market is not growing. And that led to very high capacity production capacity which ultimately created a pressure on the pricing.
Aditya
Understood sir, thanks for answering the questions. I’ll jump back into. Thank you.
operator
The next question comes from the line of Darshika Kimka from AV Fincorp. Please go ahead.
Darshika Khemka
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I had a couple of questions, sir. So firstly, as you see theproduction for this quarter and the capacity utilization, we have done a capacity utilization ofaround 70%, right? And which is much lower than the 76% that we did in the previous quarter.And you said that the prices have not increased for the Agrochemical with the Crop Protectionsegment. What the price per tonne increase has been significant, if I just calculate the numbers.So as you mentioned in the opening remarks, the product mix has led to this change, right? Sowhich product significantly
Ankit Patel
So basically, in last 1 or 2 years, we have introduced lot of new products. We have come up withthis Cyfluthrin, beta-Cyfluthrin, Flonicamid, Ethiprole, Spiromesifen, Flubendamide. So, thereare a lot of products. And going forward, all these products will be driving the growth. So in theone quarter, there was little less utilization. But year as a whole, we see that the Crop Protectionsegment will have a relatively better utilization, which will drive the growth going forward
Darshika Khemka
Okay. So let me just say my question a little differently. Has there been any particular productwhich has driven this increase in the revenue
Ankit Patel
So it is not just one product, there are couple of products. And there is a value addition also. Wehave done some different formulations also of these products. So it is not just one product, whichhas driven the growth
Darshika Khemka
Okay. The other question was around the cost savings that we can achieve with this renewableenergy coming up, considering that the company is focusing on having 50% of energy capacitybeing utilized to renewable energy, what is the cost saving that will come in
Ankit Patel
Yes. So there is a cost benefit also while going ahead for the renewable energy, definitely ithelps, which brings down our power and manufacturing costs. At the same time, when we aredealing globally with various big customers, we being the responsible care company, and theEcoVadis oriented company. It helps in improving our score. So ultimately, it helps in gainingthe business also with various customers. And it is our commitment
Darshika Khemka
So, can you give us a number of the cost savings that you have, going ahead, say, what is theenergy cost for FY25? And what could be in the coming years?
Ankit Patel
It will be difficult to give you the breakup, but I can tell you the per unit price on an averagerenewable cost per unit is in the range of INR 4 to INR 5 compared to conventional INR 9 toINR 9.5 from the government-grid supply
Darshika Khemka
Okay. And you mentioned about the opportunity that we have received in the Crop Protectionsegment to an earlier participant, what exactly was this opportunity, you can you just elaborateon that, which help us in gaining better margin?
Ankit Patel
You’re mentioning for the Crop Nutrition or Crop Protection?
Darshika Khemka
Crop Nutrition, my bad
Ankit Patel
.Okay. Okay. So in the Crop Nutrition segment, the margins for the last quarter, yes, there wasopportunity in different markets, where the prices realization were better than the normal pricingsituation, and which led to one time better profitability, but on an average for the long term
Darshika Khemka
This is definitely not sustainable, right?
Ankit Patel
Yes. Yes. That’s correct.
Darshika Khemka
That’s it from my side. Thank you so much
Ankit Patel
.Thank you
operator
The next question comes from the line of Aman Morya from Lucky Investments. Please goahead.Yes.
Aman Morya
Hello. So, thanks a lot for the opportunity. Sir, first, on the TiO2. Now given thisantidumping duty has come, so quarterly basis, we are making something around INR 25 crores,INR 26 crores an EBIT loss. This loss is likely to moderate from which quarter?
Ankit Patel
So we believe it will start improving from somewhere in the middle of second quarter or thebeginning of third quarter
Aman Morya
Okay. Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. So is it primarily because people would be having someinventory in the system, and then only you will get the order?
Ankit Patel
Correct. Correct.
Aman Morya
Okay. And in Agrochemicals, what I understand is that MPP has contributed INR 250 crores.And this INR 250 crores contribution, MPP would have posted some loss, right, at this utilizationlevel?
Ankit Patel
I am sorry, can you repeat your question, Aman ji?
Aman Morya
The new MPP, new multipurpose plant, which contributed something around INR 250 crores tothe total revenue, right. So at this revenue, I am sure MPP would have posted an EBIT loss only,right?
Ankit Patel
No, no, no. It has not posted EBIT loss
Aman Morya
Okay. Okay. So basically, this was a slowdown or whatever is the low profitability was there inthe overall business of the Agrochemicals?
Ankit Patel
Correct
Aman Morya
And in this, today, overall Agrochemical 70% would be 2,4-D, correct?
Ankit Patel
In terms of revenue?
Aman Morya
Yes
Ankit Patel
No, no, not at all. I would say 15% to 20% maximum
Aman Morya
Sir, capacity-wise, we are the largest, that is the reason I am asking.
Ankit Patel
Yes, that’s correct. But that’s a very low value product. 2,4-D is a very low-value product. Weare one of the key manufacturers. But it doesn’t contribute 70% of our revenue
Aman Morya
Okay. So now you are saying in this year also it is 15% – 20%, not more than that?
Ankit Patel
Yes.
Aman Morya
Okay. And any respite expected in that also, given that now there is some extra duty which isthere on the China-based 2,4-D, so we can get some benefit in U.S. for that?
Ankit Patel
U.S. market, yes. In the U.S. market, India will have an advantage over China, because there isa very high antidumping duty on China, 2,4-D in the U.S. So definitely, Indian players. Somainly 2 players Meghmani and Atul will have advantage
Aman Morya
.Okay. And we have a decent presence in U.S. for the overall?
Ankit Patel
We have a strong presence in U.S. Yes.
Aman Morya
Got it. And overall, sir, Agrochemical market now, we understand that there is someimprovement in pricing. So we see this pricing likely to sustain at this level?
Ankit Patel
Yes. So it is running at, I would say, at the bottom level. So nothing is going down from thislevel. So any improvement in demand will lead to little bit improvement in the pricing
Aman Morya
Okay. And last from my side, what was the overall volume for Agrochemical in Q4?
Ankit Patel
So overall volume for the growth…
Aman Morya
Volume growth, yes.
Ankit Patel
Volume growth for the year, I have about 14%. But for the quarter, it was lower. So in the fourthquarter, the volume growth was lower compared to the fourth quarter of the previous year
Aman Morya
.Okay. Okay. So it would be a lesser than 7%, 8% or something like that?
Ankit Patel
Yes, it was less by about 8%
Aman Morya
And next year, overall volume growth for Agrochemical according to your understanding?
Ankit Patel
So I would say rather than volume growth, revenue growth, we predict it will grow in the rangeof about 15% to 20%, Agrochemical.
Aman Morya
15% to 20%. Got it. Got it. Thank you, Ankit bhai. Best of luck.
Ankit Patel
Thank you
operator
The next question comes from the line of Madhur Rathi from Counter Cyclical Investments.Please go ahead.
Madhur Rathi
Hi. Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I wanted to understand regarding a new multipurposeplant. So from my understanding, sir, we are going to go from INR 250 crores revenue to INR1,000 crores revenue from much high realization product. So how will this impact our marginsgoing forward, sir, what kind of margin improvement can we see on this segment?
Ankit Patel
Madhur ji, currently segment-wise, I can tell you, Agrochemical segment generates on anaverage about 15% to 17% EBITDA. And we will definitely target to have better profitability,but it is difficult to mention currently about improvement in the EBITDA margin, becausecurrently, all the products are running at the bottom level in terms of pricing. So now the goodthing is demand has started improving. With a good demand, there will be better sales, betterutilization of the plant. But at this moment, it is difficult to mention how much marginimprovement will happen.
Madhur Rathi
Sir, on the multipurpose launch, are we going to only manufacture for ourselves or we will bedoing some contract manufacturing for some innovators as well?
Ankit Patel
There are some long-term contracts, but you cannot say it is a contract manufacturing. Now thedefinition of contract manufacturing is different company to company. So we do have somelong-term contracts, few customers, but it cannot be said contract manufacturing.
Madhur Rathi
Got it. Sir, next question I have is from a margin point of view. Sir so we are expecting a 20%margin from our Crop Nutrition and Nano Uera segment. So sir, what capacity utilization canwe expect to achieve these kind of margins? And sir, for overall FY’26, we have guided a doubledigit margin growth. But sir, so we expect some improvement in Titanium Dioxide. So on aconservative basis can you quantify what would be margin in the double digit? Would be aroundmid-teens or how it would be for the full year?
Ankit Patel
So Madhur ji, as far as the Crop Nutrition is concerned, 20% EBITDA margin that is what webelieve we will be able to achieve. Here, the plant utilization will not make much impact on theEBITDA margin. It is a different set of products. So here, more of a development activity, moreof a sale will make difference.As far as the total as a group concern growth in terms of profitability and EBITDA margin, wejust received the antidumping on TiO2. So now our calculation is going on. So we will be ableto give you the better idea in the next quarter. But we are very optimistic that in next financialyear, there will be growth in top line as well as bottom line
operator
. Does that answer your question, Madhur? Madhur, are you there? Since there’s no response fromthe participant, we will move on to the next question. It comes from the line of Dhwanil fromiWealth Fund. Please go ahead.
Dhwanil
Hi, Ankit ji. Good afternoon, and congrats on a good set of numbers. Sir, just wanted to checkon TiO2, earlier we used to be very confident of the old substitute playing out, right? And if Iam not wrong, sir, in the call, you’ve been saying that we might target exports also, right?So sir, just wanted to understand because out of 4,80,000 of market, 70% is imported, right? Wehave a lot of opportunity in the domestic side as well. So while we also look on the export sideand our capacity, we can easily do it through domestic?
Ankit Patel
Dhwanil ji, our focus will always be on the domestic market. We are targeting domestic marketonly. But as I mentioned, antidumping duty took little longer time to come. So as a Company,as a Management, we need to look at different possibility, different strategies. So there is alreadyantidumping duty on the Chinese TiO2 in Europe, in Brazil. There is already extra tariff onChinese products in the U.S.And we have a very good presence in the global market also, because of our Pigment business.So we don’t want to miss any opportunity to sell the product at better price, to have the betterprofitability. But yes, this particular product, Titanium Dioxide, as a Management, as aCompany, we are always focusing from a domestic market point of view.
Dhwanil
Got it. If some opportunity arising, we might look at it, is what you are trying to refer to. Fairenough.
Ankit Patel
Whatever gives the better profitability, we will be focusing
Dhwanil
Got it. And sir, to double our capacity, say going ahead, whenever we stabilize this plant, right?So incrementally, what CAPEX we need. Because it will be on the similar area only right, wedon’t need more land for this?
Ankit Patel
.So we don’t need land for sure. We have a huge land available. In fact, in the first phase, we didgood amount of CAPEX for the second Phase capacity expansion also. So now for capacityexpansion in the second Phase, not much CAPEX is required.
Dhwanil
So in the first phase, we spend INR 250 crores, if I am not wrong, right, with the acquisition costitself
Ankit Patel
So there will not be much CAPEX required for the second Phase. Once we will achieve the firstphase capacity utilization, at that time we will be announcing what would be the CAPEXrequired to expand in the second Phase. But just for the time being, there will not be significantCAPEX required
Dhwanil
Got it, sir. And sir, just on the TiO2, currently, what would be our cost of production, andobviously, there will be antidumping duty coming in. So the benefit, as you are saying, it canflow to us maybe in 3 months, 4 months’ time. So if you can, sir, help us understand currentlywhat is our cost of production? And how much overall loss sir we did in FY25?
Ankit Patel
So this product is purely, because these are high CAPEX, high maintenance-oriented plants. Sothe better you run the plant at better capacity, your cost is low. So 2 factors: one is the sales priceand the better utilization. So the moment we will be able to run at better capacity, our cost willgo down drastically, and that will help to improve in better profitability
Dhwanil
.But any number, sir, just for our understanding that how much profit we can make going ahead.Just ballpark currently, how much we are? What is the range?
Ankit Patel
We will share those numbers going forward. At this moment, we would not like to give thebreakup.
Dhwanil
Okay. Okay sir. Thank you
Ankit Patel
Thank you.
operator
The next question comes from the line of Pankaj Motwani from Equirus Securities. Please goahead
Pankaj Motwani
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. So my question is on the Pigment division. So like if I seethe standalone Pigment, so like the margins have been improving sequentially, and they arecurrently at 6.2%. So like what margin we can expect for the FY26? And is there any possibilityof reaching historical margins of around 15% to 16%?
Ankit Patel
Pankaj ji, we don’t see 15% to 16% margin going forward in the near future unless somethinghappens. But for sure, we don’t see that kind of margin. And for this financial year, we believefor the Pigment segment, for the green and blue business, we should be able to generate about8% to 9% EBITDA margin
Pankaj Motwani
Okay. Got it. And in your opening remarks, you have mentioned that this growth in Q4 is mainlyon account of better utilization and improved product mix. So I just want to know, like with theramp up of the MPP plant, so there would be like improving product mix, because of the rampup of the MPP plant. So margins should ideally improve from the current level, but you areguiding for the margins of around 15% to 16%. So can you like help you explain the reason forthis conservative outlook?
Ankit Patel
See even the new product, what we are launching for those products, compared to what we planfor the project, the prices have dropped drastically in China in different markets. Overall, asagrochemical product range, prices have dropped to the significantly low level. So definitely,those products will have a better sales realization, little better profitability. But as a segment asa whole, we believe we should be able to generate about 15% to 16% EBITDA margin.
Pankaj Motwani
Okay. Got it. That is from my side. All the best
operator
.Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to handthe conference over to the Management for the closing comments.
Ankit Patel
So on behalf of the Management, we thank you for joining us today. We appreciate your trustand support on us. With this, we hope that we have been able to address most of your queries.In case of further queries, you may reach out to Mr. G. S. Chahal or Mr. Nishant Vyas and theywill connect with you offline. Thank you.
operator
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Arihant Capital Markets Limited, thatconcludes this conference. You may now disconnect your lines.