Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (NSE: MAZDOCK) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Nov. 05, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Sanjeev Singhal — Chairman & Managing Director, Director (Finance) and Chief Financial Officer
Biju George — Director, Shipbuilding
Vasudev Puranik — Director (Corporate Planning & Personnel) and Director (Submarine & Heavy Engineering)
Analysts:
Jyoti Gupta — Analyst
Amit Dixit — Analyst
Atul Tiwari — Analyst
Rohit — Analyst
Gagan Thareja — Analyst
Abhishek Poddar — Analyst
Kavyan Shah — Analyst
Rao Thakkar — Analyst
Shivam Parag — Analyst
Sachin Maniar — Analyst
Rakesh — Analyst
Anirudh Murarka — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited Q2 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Nirmal Bang Equities Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Jyoti Gupta, research analyst from Nirmal Bang Equities. Thank you, and over to you, ma’am.
Jyoti Gupta — Analyst
Thank you, Ridhvi. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities, I welcome you all to the Quarter Two FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call…
Operator
I’m so sorry to interrupt, ma’am. Your voice is breaking.
Jyoti Gupta — Analyst
Is it clear now?
Operator
Yes, ma’am, it’s clear. Can you just go through it again?
Jyoti Gupta — Analyst
Yes. Thank you, Ridhvi. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Institutional [Technical Issues] We have with us Shri Sanjeev Singhal, Chairman…
Operator
Ms. Jyoti, I’m sorry to interrupt, but your voice is breaking.
Jyoti Gupta — Analyst
Can we start now? Is it clear?
Operator
Yes, ma’am, it’s clear.
Jyoti Gupta — Analyst
Thank you, Ridhvi. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities, I welcome you all to the Quarter Two FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call with the Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited management.
We have with us Shri Sanjeev Singhal, Chairman and Managing Director, Additional Charge and Director Finance; Shri Biju George, Director, Shipbuilding; Commander Vasudev Puranik, Retired Director, Corporate Planning & Personnel and Director, Submarine & Heavy Engineering, Additional Charge.
Without further ado, I request Shri Sanjeev Singhal, sir, to start with his opening comments after which we can open the floor for question-and-answers. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Sanjeev Singhal — Chairman & Managing Director, Director (Finance) and Chief Financial Officer
Yes, good afternoon, and I welcome all the participants to this call and wish you all a very, very happy Diwali, which is just over.
And the results we have published, the results have been consistent with our recent performance in the past two years. We are open to all queries which the investors and the participants may have.
We can start the conference, please.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Amit Dixit
Yes, hi. Good evening, everyone, and congratulations for a good set of numbers. I have two questions. The first one is that, is there any element of reversal of liquidated damages in this quarter?
Sanjeev Singhal
As far as this quarter is concerned, there is no reversal of any liquidity damages.
Amit Dixit
And sir, when we are expecting this reversal to happen in next quarter or I mean when?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes, two of our requests for summary number one and summary number five, they are still being evaluated by the ministry and the Indian Navy. So these two decisions are pending. The timelines would be difficult to assign. But we were hopeful that this would happen in the second quarter. It hasn’t happened in the second quarter. We are hopeful that at least one of them should get settled in the third quarter.
Amit Dixit
And the total quantum would be around INR400 crores?
Sanjeev Singhal
Maybe around INR300 crores.
Amit Dixit
Okay. That’s great, sir.
Sanjeev Singhal
And that closes the math depending upon what is considered attributable to MDL. So minus that would be the reversal.
Amit Dixit
Okay. Got it, sir. Got it. The second question is, is it possible to just outline the delivery schedule of destroyers, frigates and submarine for FY ’25, ’26 and ’27 maybe?
Sanjeev Singhal
Right now, we are — three projects are being executed. That is P-75 Scorpene submarines. We have already delivered five. The sixth one is on the final stages of delivery. We were targeting October. Certain issues have cropped up. So we are expecting — we are addressing those issues. We expect the delivery anytime before 31st December. Similarly for Project 15 Bravo, out of four destroyers, we have delivered three. The fourth destroyer again was targeted for second quarter, but it is — last-minute issues are being addressed. So this also we are targeting delivery before 31st December. We are looking at delivery before 31st December. And first ship of 17 Alpha, again, we are trying to deliver it by 31st December this year. So next we will be left with three large vessels, that is 17 Alpha, three frigates, which would be successfully delivered in ’25 and ’26.
Amit Dixit
Okay.
Sanjeev Singhal
’25, ’26 and ’26 [Technical Issues].
Amit Dixit
Thank you so much, sir. That’s it from my side, and all the best.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Atul Tiwari from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Atul Tiwari
Yes, sir. Thanks a lot for this opportunity, and congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, my question is on that now that we are very close to finishing the delivery of the submarines and the destroyer, could you outline for us the potential order pipeline over next two to three years? I mean, which are in the pipeline and what is the rough quantum where we are in the free?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes, I would request my Director, Shipbuilding, to outline with respect to the shipbuilding projects and Director, Corporate Planning, with respect to the submarine projects. Over to Director, Shipbuilding, Mr. Biju George.
Biju George
So we have quoted for certain projects, like the next-generation Corvettes. And Navy is also right now looking at next-generation destroyers, which will take time even it has not gone to the AoN. So these are the two projects which are there. So then there are small naval auxiliaries, for which — 17 Bravo is also a possibility, but it is not a crystalites [Phonetic]. That is a repeat order of Project 17A we are right now building. So next-generation destroyers, 17 Bravo would be the big-ticket items, which we are looking forward, maybe in the next two to three years as you — that is in the horizon which is there. But right now, as far as the yard is concerned, we have not got any firm commitment from the Navy that is going to come to us. But Navy is considering this and they will be processing it at the level [Technical Issues]
Atul Tiwari
Okay. And sir, I just wanted some idea about the size also, if you could share. I know the size can change. But rough — I mean, what is the quantum we are talking about here?
Sanjeev Singhal
And what we can discuss is as far as the destroyer order is concerned, the destroyer order which we are executing currently of four destroyers. This is 2011 order. This was INR34,000 crores. So based on this, you can estimate what would be the size of the order for next-generation destroyers which are bound to be larger and after a period of almost 15 years. Similarly 17 Alpha project, as far as MDL portion is concerned, four number of frigates, in 2015, this was INR27,000 crores. So a similar or more advanced frigates, similar number. Today, what would be the value? This is — we leave it to your estimate.
Atul Tiwari
Okay, that’s helpful.
Sanjeev Singhal
With regard to the submarines, Commander Puranik would intervene.
Vasudev Puranik
Okay. We have two, three things that are happening. One is the project for additional submarine, wherein we are likely to get an order for free submarines, follow-on of this…
Sanjeev Singhal
We are nominated for…
Vasudev Puranik
Nominated for this is Corvettes submarines. Then we have the P75I, which is — where it is in a competition. We have collaborated with the German designer TKMS and they have submitted our bid. That is — we are — we have been declared as qualified for the tender and — but we are awaiting the government direction on that. And then after that we have got couple of other things which are in the pipeline. We have also submitted our quote [Phonetic] and we will get an order for constructing the air independent propulsion plugs, which are to be retrofitted on these copies. And one likely which is just in thought process as of now is the respects of this program [Phonetic]. These are the things which can happen.
[Technical Issues]
Atul Tiwari
Okay, sir. And, sir, If I could check for these three additional Scorpene submarines for which you are nominated, what is a rough quantum of order size that we are looking at?
Sanjeev Singhal
The AoN value for this is INR27,000 crores. But this AoN was obtained in 2018. So this would definitely have an element of escalation by the time the — and depending upon if there is what is the gap between the specifications as per RFP and finally frozen and what the specifications were at the time of AoN.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. And sir, my last one on this is that, obviously, these are very large and complicated orders. So they could take maybe a few quarters to come to us. So in the meantime, do you foresee a period where the current large projects kind of run over and we have a slightly lesser quantum of order book to work with for two, three, four quarters? Is that a possibility? Or do you see a smooth handover from current set of projects to the new set of projects, so that our revenue keeps on growing without any kind of fall in between?
Biju George
Yes. So that’s a good question. So between these two large programs, we have already taken three orders from — for the Indian Coast Guard and also one export orders. Put this together, if the complete contract if it is executing, it is 31 ships. So this is basically a pillar for the time during which a large order may take some time to mature for which production has already commenced. And in addition, we are also having the offshore projects from ONGC. Approximately INR8,000 — INR7,000 crores, INR8,000 crores worth of projects have already been approved and orders placed on us. So these are some of the initiatives which are going on parallelly.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. So you don’t foresee a situation where the revenue may notice even a small dip over next couple of years. You think that the current level of revenue will be maintained and probably even in interim we will have some growth on this base?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes, because the offshore projects and ICGS projects and the export order put together, we’ll be able to sustain the — almost sustain this kind of revenues.
Atul Tiwari
Great.
Sanjeev Singhal
I mean, it will not be a big deal.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. Good to know, sir. Sir, I will come back in the queue. I have asked quite a bit of questions. I will come back in the queue. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Rahul from Aditya Birla Sun Life. Please go ahead.
Rohit
Yes, this is Rohit from Aditya Birla Sun Life. My first question has got to do with the capex plans, the big expansion plans that we have on cards. Is there any progress, any color to what exactly the capacity we are looking to add? What kind of vessels will we wish to manufacture in future? Any color on those aspects.
Biju George
Yes. So we have already appointed consultants for two major CapEx initiatives. One is recently we had acquired 15 acres of land adjunct to our existing yard. That is — will be developed into a shipbuilding from ship repair facility. So there we are intending to have a graving dry dock and other ancillary facilities which can develop for both shipbuilding and ship repairs where the envisage dock size is approximately 180 meters by around 60 meters of width. Now we also have a land parcel very close to the Nhava Sheva, Nhava region near the JNPT, which is approximately 40 acres of land. That area also we have appointed the consultant for development of that area into a — with a graving dry dock, hard stands, etc.. Then we can build very large vessels because there also we are envisaging a very long dry dock of a very huge capacity.
Rohit
Sir, if I understand in my very — from the way we understand it like the number of platforms you could concurrently work is 21 currently. Once this CapEx happens, how many platforms you can work concurrently?
Biju George
So this CapEx will come to fruition. It will. Because there is environmental clearance, there is civil works, it will take a minimum of four to five years from now for making it operational. Then once it is becoming operational, we will be able to build very large size vessels. For example, the hard stands will be there where we can take around eight vessels simultaneously and this dry docking can be used for ship repairs which can turn around number of ships for repair and refit. That would be the kind of operations that we are envisaging.
Sanjeev Singhal
Right now with the existing yard capacity we can handle 11 submarines and 10 warships at various stages of construction. So with the additional CapEx, the capacity would be practically doubling in — not only doubling in terms of numbers, in terms of size of the vessels also, much larger vessels will be able to handle.
Rohit
So just to understand 10 plus 11. 10 is worship, 11 submarines and [Technical Issues] only. Nothing on submarine front?
Biju George
Whatever infrastructure is being created further, this is being created for large size ships. As per the requirement, whatever submarines are required that can be handled with the same infrastructure [Speech Overlap] smaller in dimension.
Rohit
Got it. [Technical Issues] Earlier under the cost marking stage where we have submitted the cost to I believe the Indian Navy. What exactly is the further progress over there?
Sanjeev Singhal
Voice is breaking. We are not able to get you.
Rohit
[Technical Issues]
Operator
I’m sorry to interrupt Mr. Rohit. But your voice is breaking.
Rohit
Can you hear me now?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes. Please continue.
Rohit
Yes. So my question is more on the cross benchmarking stage of P75 the three add-on submarines. We have submitted the — I believe, the court or the cost benchmarking parameters to the Indian Navy. What exactly the states are we currently? I mean, when do you expect this to see a final conclusion of our order?
Sanjeev Singhal
This can happen anytime. We don’t have any official intimation with regard to completion of costing committee approvals. They do not come to us. It is internal to the ministry. So it can happen anytime what happened till now.
Rohit
Got it, sir. Thank you. That’s it from my side.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Atul Tiwari from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Atul Tiwari
Yes. Sir, thanks a lot for the opportunity again. So sir, my question is on — obviously you have been done — you have been doing quite well on margins. So the current full year margin, say, on a trailing 12-month basis, I mean, do you expect to maintain it over next couple of years? Because these margins are anyways on the higher side. So can these margins be maintained or we are looking at some kind of decline from here?
Sanjeev Singhal
The normalized margin for our industry would be something around 12%% to 15%.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. So you mean at the EBITDA level or at the PBT level.
Sanjeev Singhal
At…
Atul Tiwari
12% to 15% PBT level. Okay. And would you be able to comment on the EBITDA level margin? Is that something you kind of mention or track?
Sanjeev Singhal
Primarily, we are focused on the PBT.
Atul Tiwari
Okay, okay. But sir, PBT would also include some other income that you earn on your cash balance. So these margins are including that you mean?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. Okay. And sir my last question is on your capacity expansion plan. And so — and this is slightly futuristic question. So I mean, as I can see it as of now, you are completing some of the very large projects right now and obviously a few large projects are in the pipeline but they may come with some delay. So you anyways have enough and probably more than enough capacity, like 11 submarines being built simultaneously and 10 warship. So, I mean, does this capacity expansion plan indicate to us that you are expecting even more orders in the future beyond whatever you have outlined in your answer so far? Because your capacity will grow…
Sanjeev Singhal
Definitely. We are looking for export orders, we are looking for commercial and we are looking for repairs of large vessels, which currently we are — yard is not in a position to undertake.
Biju George
So there is domestic difference orders then domestic commercial, export defense and export commercial. These four segments will be there for new build as well as for repairs.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. But I believe, sir, as of now, I mean your non-defense work is pretty small, right? I mean not too big in overall scheme of things, but you expect it to grow much faster from here onwards?
Biju George
Yes. We have the capability. If we have additional capacity, we can scale it up.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. But in terms of like tapping into that market, are you in active discussion with clients or you are still in very initial stages? Could you comment on where we are in that journey. I mean, how quickly we could see some orders being won on non-defense side?
Biju George
On non-defense side, if we have to take right now, we have to outsource it completely. Because right now our capacity for commercial shipbuilding is almost full. So once the new facilities come up, that is as I told, maybe four to five years down the line, then we will have captive capacity for taking these vessels and executing it on a road.
Sanjeev Singhal
Non-defense has offshore also.
Biju George
Yes. They have made the good progress there.
Atul Tiwari
Okay, sir. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Gagan Thareja from ASK Investment Managers Please go ahead.
Gagan Thareja
Yes. I hope I’m audible, sir?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes. Please continue.
Gagan Thareja
Yes. Yes, the first question is on the operating cash flow. I mean, if I look at the first half operating cash flow this year, it’s negative. If I remember correctly, negative INR300-odd crores, rather INR180-odd crores versus a positive INR300-odd or more crores in the same period last year. Can you elaborate on that?
Sanjeev Singhal
These are non-consequential. As far as the cash flows are concerned, by the end of the year, my debtors do not go up. So these will even out. So negative cash flows. We have significant cash balance. [Technical Issues] are naval orders primarily. So there could be some delay — intermittent delays in realizing payments.
Gagan Thareja
Okay. All right. And sir, out of the total capacity of doing 21 platforms concurrently, how many are you currently executing? Is it possible to give in some idea on that?
Sanjeev Singhal
Currently we are executing six large platforms and some smaller vessels.
Biju George
Yes, 21 vessels for Indian Coast Guard and 10 vessels. So right now we’ve taken up six vessels for export of…
Gagan Thareja
Okay, all right. Third one, Goa shipyard has a very sizable increase in order flow. Their annual report talks of a good execution — of a good growth execution in the coming two, three years. Is it therefore a reasonable surmise to believe that your income — associate income that comes from Goa shipyard will also grow at a very healthy clip in the next two, three years?
Sanjeev Singhal
We are not participating in the management of shipyard. Primarily we receive the dividend. And as far as the consolidated accounts are, yes, part of their ship that [Technical Issues] performs good. Definitely it has an impact on my consolidated accounts as well.
Gagan Thareja
Right, sir. And, sir, final one on the Project P75I where you are bidding with TKMS. First part of the question, sir, when do you see the final decision, I mean, any possible idea to — for the timeline to be given by you? And second one, I think if I have understood it correctly from media articles, TKMS was able to demonstrate a functional AIP on their 212 platform, whereas Navantia and L&T were — have not been able to demonstrate a functional working AIP yet. Is that true? And if so, is it reasonably logical to believe that the TKMS platform has demonstrated requirements or ASQRs for the Navy better?
Sanjeev Singhal
We only have a information that as per MDL, TKMS [Technical Issues] this has been evaluated and whatever evaluations were to be performed, all those have been successful. Regarding balance, for any other thing we are not privy to that information. We will not be able to comment on that, including the timelines.
Gagan Thareja
All right. And for the air independent propulsion which DRDO has designed and which is [Indecipherable] to be put on the existing submarine fleet — the existing diesel electric submarine fleet, is there again any RFP or RFI in the works in the near future? Or is this something far ahead in the future from your perspective?
Sanjeev Singhal
This is expected anytime [Technical Issues] given the military and RFP has been issues, maybe he is trying to introduce AIP in the first — during the first — refit of the first submarine, which is expected in ’25. In case it doesn’t happen in the first submarine, then definitely for the second submarine. So first submarine and normal refit can be there without the AIP. Second submarine along with AIP.
Gagan Thareja
A normal refit. You — if I sort of go back to your statements of the last call, a normal refit on an average works up to a third of the value of the — initial order value of the submarine. With the addition of AIP, how much incremental value gets added to the refit?
Sanjeev Singhal
Another 30%, 35%.
Gagan Thareja
Another 30%, 35%. Okay. So basically if a refit with an AIP comes in, it’s reasonable to assume that the total refit value would be around 70% — roughly 65% to 70% of the original order value, is that…
Sanjeev Singhal
Please take it as around 55%, 60%.
Gagan Thareja
Okay. All right, sir. And again, going back to your…
Sanjeev Singhal
[Technical Issues]
Gagan Thareja
I completely understand that, sir. I completely understand that.
Sanjeev Singhal
This would be very dynamic figure.
Gagan Thareja
Yes. Agreed, sir. And on your statements in the previous calls or previous couple of calls, that as in when orders come closer to their final deliveries, there is — you get a better and a more clearer view of your costs. And therefore, like you did in 1Q, there was, as you indicated, costs came in lower than what you had originally budgeted and led to a margin expansion. Have you seen something of that sort in 2Q as well? And is it expected in the second half also?
Sanjeev Singhal
Depends upon we have a delivery planned — two deliveries are planned this year. The deliveries are done at that point of time only we will be able to take a stop of the [Technical Issues] spanned out.
Gagan Thareja
All right. All right. Okay sir. That’s all from my side. And one final one is on commercial ship building. There is a lot of policy emphasis on building commercial ships under the India flag with incentives — current set of incentives being extended further down the line with additional incentives also in the works in the pipeline. And there’s also a lot of work emphasis on green shipping or hybrid shipping, both in Europe as well as India. Do you therefore see yourself actively participating? Is that a large addressable market for you and one where you would be interested in participating in a big way?
Biju George
Yes. See we — the order which we are right now having with the European client, with a Denmark client, is already a hybrid. So the financial assistance is now getting revised that benefit also in the future. For example, if it’s a fully green, there is a 30% inflation which the government is going to give. So this green market, the short ski shipping market is well alive in Europe and they are looking to this side of the world also. [Technical Issues] Shippers already have received orders from Europe in the country.
Gagan Thareja
I understand that, sir. But from your perspective, specifically from Mazagon’s perspective, do you see I mean these as being material sized opportunities and one where you want to participate actively?
Biju George
It is provided. Because most of the clients would like [Technical Issues]
Gagan Thareja
Hello?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes.
Biju George
So if it becomes profitable proposition, we will definitely look at it.
Gagan Thareja
As per your peer, they are very profitable. Coaching seems to indicate the profitability on those is actually better.
Sanjeev Singhal
But not all clients are inclined to be like that.
Gagan Thareja
Okay. All right, sir. I’ll get back in the queue for more. Thanks for taking my questions.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Poddar from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Abhishek Poddar
Yes, hi. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, first regarding the PBT margin that you guided of 12% to 15%, just trying to understand it a little more. So if I look at FY ’22, this number comes to 13% and ’23 was 18%, but ’24 was a 26%. And I think you had some LD refunds in ’24. First half also has been very impressive, sir. It has been about 32%. So just trying to understand how to think about the margins from here?
Sanjeev Singhal
So we have already discussed this in quite detail in the last conference call also and we still maintain normal project margin would be around 12% to 15%. Whatever margins you are looking at right now, these are on account of completion of projects, where we have been able to complete the projects at costs lower than what was envisaged at the time of getting the project. So these certain efficiencies which learning curves which we have traversed, certain efficiencies, process changes which we have done over the years. So these would be taken into consideration definitely by the customer when we negotiate for future projects. But it will always be again depending upon what improvements we bring in further. There could be certain positives. In case we are not able to execute it with the same efficiency, there could be slight negative also.
Abhishek Poddar
Understood. So these are after the settlement with customers or certain provisions which we made in the books and we reversed it based upon our understanding of the project now?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes, depending upon the completion of the project. If the costs are not incurred, then they add up to our profit as and when the ships guarantee defect period and deformity liabilities are done.
Abhishek Poddar
Understood. And, sir, how do you foresee this? Listen, second half of this year and ’26, some more benefit could come in or these are benefits are mostly realized and we will see normalized margin now?
Sanjeev Singhal
I said in my previous reply just now that we are targeting two deliveries. So based on the deliveries we’ll be able to assess as — when the deliveries actually take place and what kind of deported liabilities are pending at the time of delivery.
Abhishek Poddar
Okay.
Sanjeev Singhal
So that — with that, we would be in a better position to assess that what kind of a cost the project is finally going to end it.
Abhishek Poddar
Understood. And, sir, second is regarding this three submarine you mentioned, which were the A1 is approved. So once we get the order, if you can please highlight how the execution will be over how many years? And how the revenue booking will happen?
Sanjeev Singhal
The project timelines are six years for the first submarine and then one submarine each year. So this is roughly around eight to nine years.
Abhishek Poddar
Okay. And should we assume a linear revenue booking? Or it will be more backhanded revenue booking, sir?
Sanjeev Singhal
It is always a S-curve during the initial stages of the project. Financial as well as the physical progress is a bit low. Then it is pretty steep and towards the end of the project again it tapers out.
Abhishek Poddar
Okay, understood sir. Thanks. And so just one Last question on P75I. Any clarity, sir, whether it will go to one bidder only? Or is there a possibility of consideration of the second bidder also in the same contract.
Sanjeev Singhal
Whosoever gets the order, he gets the complete order for six submarines.
Abhishek Poddar
Okay. Okay. Thanks, sir. thanks a lot for taking my questions.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of from Gagan Thareja from ASK Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Gagan Thareja
Yes, thanks for taking my question again, sir. On — continuing on the P75I while the TKMS has been able to meet all technical parameters, I presume there was some concern based on their financial situation. Do you — on TKMS financial situation in — at least in some media articles, do you see that as a matter of concern or if at all there has been a concern around that? Has that been addressed?
Sanjeev Singhal
We are not aware of this and as of now the collaboration is well fully on track.
Gagan Thareja
All right. And on the delivery schedules, you’ve been indicating that for frigates you’re targeting one and possibly two. Now that you’ve moved into the second half of the year, is there more clarity on whether two is a possibility to deliver this year?
Sanjeev Singhal
Second is doubtful. Second may spillover the next financial year.
Gagan Thareja
Okay. Thanks. I’ll get back in the queue.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Atul Tiwari from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Atul Tiwari
Yes. Sir, thanks for the opportunity again. So sir, on this three submarine orders for which you have been nominated, just trying to understand the revenue recognition in a little bit detail. So actual revenue recognition that you do, it is kind of percentage of completion because these are very long execution time projects or you have to deliver the submarine and then only you book revenue. How does it happen as execution progresses?
Sanjeev Singhal
Percentage completion.
Atul Tiwari
Percentage completion. Okay. And is there a cut-off of completion before which you do not recognize any profit on the project? Is there some kind of cut-off? Or you start recognizing the profit on the project from the very beginning?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes, we started profit right from the beginning itself. Depending upon the what is the cost of completion — estimated cost of completion.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. And that percentage completion you follow in all your ship building and submarine building project? There is no other revenue recognition, right?
Sanjeev Singhal
No, considering the gas station period, until it’s a small repair project, that is different. But for any new build programs, new build programs are fairly long.
Atul Tiwari
Okay. Okay, sir.
Sanjeev Singhal
Completion.
Atul Tiwari
Great, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot sir for your answers.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Amit Dixit
Yes, thanks for taking my question again, sir. Just one follow-up. We have three deliveries scheduled by end of December. Is it possible to highlight whether these are ahead of schedule or as per schedule?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes, thanks for taking my question again, sir. Just one follow-up. We have three deliveries scheduled by end of December. Is it possible to highlight whether these are ahead of schedule or as per schedule?
Amit Dixit
Okay, so this destroyer is how many months ahead of schedule, sir, if it happens before the 31st of December?
Sanjeev Singhal
A few two months.
Amit Dixit
By — sorry?
Sanjeev Singhal
Roughly two months.
Amit Dixit
Okay, okay. Great, sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Jyoti Gupta from Nirmal Bang Equities. Please go ahead.
Jyoti Gupta
Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sir my question is, these three deliveries that are going to happen, how much percentage of the revenue has already been realized? Is it 90%? So which means only 10% will now be reflected in the next two quarters? Or is it 75% till now that the company has realized?
Sanjeev Singhal
Basically it is not dependent on the ship only.
Biju George
Yes. We have post delivery, we have warranty of [Technical Issues] then the spares also have to be procured and given warranty obligations are there. The ship will join the fleet immediately after commissioning. So during the operation of the ship, during the guarantee period, if something wears off, tears off, we need to replace it, repair it, replenish it. All these liabilities are also there. So…
Sanjeev Singhal
We have a module.
Biju George
Yes. So then in the — during the — before completion of our guarantee obligation, we have to drive off the ship once and inspect all the machinery, propulsion systems, etc.. And make good of any deficiency if it is there — observe deficiency if it is there. So all this have to be factored in while booking the entire revenues. Basically what I meant to say that at delivery the entire revenue will not get exhausted. There is further expenditure also, which is involved.
Jyoti Gupta
Okay, okay. So my next question is then the expenditure that we have had — I mean, we’ve seen that since the costing is based on 2011 and the new upcoming ones will be in 2016, of course, the escalation for F ’27 could become to ’32. My next question is, will the raw material cost — obviously, since we are looking at a horizon of six years and the cost that we would have — apart from revenue, we would have also allocated some cost escalation as well. So — and with indigenization as well, don’t you think that your cost of materials will actually go down for the next projects?
Biju George
Whatever factors you are discussing, these factors are known to the customer also. So the value which is negotiated that would be taking these aspects into consideration.
Jyoti Gupta
Okay, all right. Okay. And sir, there is this build-up of some procurement of base and depot. And I also see some other expenses which are project-related, which I’ve specifically seen happens only in the second quarter of every year. What kind of these expenses are? Are these preliminary or something to do with evaluation or survey-related? Could you please explain this?
Sanjeev Singhal
I’m not really very sure what expenditure you are talking of which happens only in second quarter because we are not aware any specific expenditure which is happening specifically in second quarter every year. I don’t think any such expenditure is there.
Jyoti Gupta
Sir, there are expenses, other expenses which are project-related. What projects are we talking about here?
Sanjeev Singhal
It is for all the projects. Each of these is a project, P75I Scorpene, this is a project. 15 Bravo Destroyers, this is a project. 17 Alpha, this is a project. All these are projects. So project-related expenditures, this may be the heading in the accounts based on granular — granularity basis, this would be assigned to different projects. Any of these projects would have utilized certain expenditures. But by design, there is nothing in a particular quarter every year some particular expenditure is happening. Nothing by design.
Jyoti Gupta
Okay, okay. Thank you so much. I’ll come back in the queue.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Kavyan Shah who is an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Kavyan Shah
Am I audible? Hello?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes, yes.
Kavyan Shah
Yeah. So I have a follow-up question on someone who just talked about the incentive schemes and all which the government has launched. So I needed to know that if this schemes are beneficial? And have you till now received any reimbursement or incentive or any financial assistance for the same?
Sanjeev Singhal
So these incentives, first of all, are not applicable for platforms which are having weapons. Now our big ticket orders are all having weapons. These are all combat platforms. So this financial assistance or that incentives are not applicable to us per se.
Now when it comes to the commercial ships, at this moment of time, our order value is significantly much lower in comparison to these major warship and submarine projects which we are handling. So not only that, these assistance will be available to us only on successful completion of the project that too within the timeframe of three years. So we have not reached there. So right now that is not going to make any significant difference to either our top-line nor to the bottom-line.
Kavyan Shah
Okay, okay. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Rao [Phonetic] Thakkar from NVS Brokerage. Please go ahead.
Rao Thakkar
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, you have mentioned that the normal margin in this business is 12% to 15%, but for the quarter you have posted higher margins. So sir, for H2, do we go with 12% to 15% or do we go with the margins you have posted, sir, because since higher value-added products you post better margins?
Sanjeev Singhal
What is your core query? For Future?
Rao Thakkar
So for H2, do we — you had mentioned for normal value products, the PBT margin is 12% to 15%, but you have posted higher margins. So for the second half, sir, do we go with the H1 margins you have posted or better margins?
Sanjeev Singhal
As far as H2 is concerned, H2 would be similar to H1 only, we don’t expect a significant change, because this is based on the current projects.
Rao Thakkar
Correct, correct. So 12% to 15% margin is applicable to what?
Sanjeev Singhal
For new projects.
Rao Thakkar
For new projects. Okay, okay. So whatever you’ve been doing in H2, you will be able to do the same thing. But going forward then we will have to see that whether the margins could be similar or it could be tapering off 0% to 12% to 15% as you suggested?
Sanjeev Singhal
Margins can be different because the project mix would be different. Right now I’m executing three projects; 75, 15 Bravo and 17 Alpha. This financial year, it will be 17 Alpha only. Given that, the project mix would be different.
Rao Thakkar
All right, all right. Understood, sir. Understood. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Shivam Parag [Phonetic] from Valuewise Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Shivam Parag
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I wanted to know the split between our cash and cash equivalents, that is the free cash and the advance? And second question was of the estimated revenue outlook. If you could provide some numbers on the revenue front for the year — financial year ’24-’25?
Sanjeev Singhal
We had indicated we are looking at a growth of around 10% — 10% to 12% over last year as far as the top-line is concerned. And as far as the cash is concerned, we are having our own cash around INR4,000 crores.
Shivam Parag
And sir, the advances from the Indian Navy?
Sanjeev Singhal
Unless whatever is reflected in the accounts is pertaining to Indian Army.
Shivam Parag
Okay. So sir, around INR200 of free cash is with the company. So will the company — so the company has a profitable business, so the free cash will be generated year-over-year. So does the company foresee any special dividend or any bonus in future?
Sanjeev Singhal
We already did. For capex plans, we proposed to invest around INR5,000 crores over next couple of [Technical Issue] We have already placed the orders for the consultancy for these large capex plans. [Indecipherable] fully utilizing this cash balance for capacity enhancement.
Shivam Parag
Okay, capacity enhancements. Thank you, sir. Thanks for addressing my queries.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Sachin Maniar from 3P Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Sachin Maniar
Hi, sir. Good evening. Sir, just one clarification I need on this ONGC order of INR6,000 crores to INR7,000 crores you have referred to. What will be the timeline for this order for execution?
Sanjeev Singhal
Two years.
Sachin Maniar
So you would be booking, I mean, almost INR3,000 crores over next two years for ’25 and ’26?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes.
Sachin Maniar
Okay. And how were the margins on this product? You said 12% to 15%. Will it be similar to that or it will lower in this account?
Biju George
It also depend upon the mix because these are three different projects, each one of them has a different margin. But definitely, yeah, something around 10% to 12%.
Sachin Maniar
Okay, 10% to 12%. Thanks, sir. That’s it from my side.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions]
Sanjeev Singhal
I think we are done.
Operator
The next question is from the line of Gagan Thareja from ASK Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Gagan Thareja
Thanks. Sir, just want to confirm, when you indicated on-schedule and delays, were you referring to Destroyer is ahead of schedule and deliveries currently and frigates are delayed or is it the reverse? I’m sorry, I couldn’t follow that.
Biju George
Ahead of schedule. Destroyer is ahead of schedule.
Gagan Thareja
Destroyer is ahead of schedule. And sir, in terms of margins, I think apart from the revision in costs towards the finalization of final delivery of projects, you also indicated that if you’re able to deliver ahead of schedule that also creates certain cost efficiencies. So potentially between LDs, one possible delivery ahead of schedule and also some potential cost resilience, is it therefore reasonable to assume that you have enough margin levers to perhaps sustain the kind of margins you have demonstrated in the first half of the year?
Biju George
For S2, yes.
Gagan Thareja
Okay, sir.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Rakesh who is an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Rakesh
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity.
Operator
I’m sorry to interrupt, sir, but your voice is not audible.
Rakesh
Hello?
Operator
Sir, can you speak a little louder?
Rakesh
Hello? Able to hear me? Hello?
Sanjeev Singhal
Not very audible.
Rakesh
Sir, able to hear me now?
Sanjeev Singhal
Yes, yes.
Rakesh
Yeah. Sir, thanks for the opportunity. In terms of the expense, the cost of material and also the procurement, whatever the material which is the costing now that can be used only for this quarter or that can be same material can be used for the different quarter also? Because what I see that procurement base and the depot spare cost, it’s gone high in this quarter. That’s the question.
Biju George
Basically whatever cost booking is there, it is all based on consumption. So whatever activities are carried out during a quarter, only those costs are booked. With regard to procurement, majority of the equipments for these projects have already been procured. So not much of an impact with respect to any change or fluctuation in the prices in the market.
Rakesh
Okay, sir. Thanks for the clarification.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Anirudh Murarka from Continental AG [Phonetic]. Please go ahead.
Anirudh Murarka
Sir, I just — am I audible?
Sanjeev Singhal
Sir, please go on.
Anirudh Murarka
Yeah. I wanted to just inquire that the cash balance remaining with the company cash on books, how we are currently using it with some sort of fixed deposits? And how much interest is being fetched right now?
Sanjeev Singhal
Right now it is fixed deposits.
Anirudh Murarka
At what rate of interest, sir? It’s a long-term deposit or it’s a liquid deposit?
Sanjeev Singhal
Liquid deposit. One year — max maturity, one year.
Anirudh Murarka
Thank you, sir. Congratulations once again for a beautiful set of numbers.
Operator
Thank you very much. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Jyoti Gupta for closing comments. Thank you. And over to you, ma’am.
Jyoti Gupta
Thank you, Ridhvi. On behalf of Nirmal Bang institutional Equities, I would like to thank the management of Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited for the call. And many thanks to the participants for joining the call. Ridhvi, you may now close the call. Thank you so much, sir, for your time.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]