Matrimony.Com Limited (NSE: MATRIMONY) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 06, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Murugavel Janakiraman — Chairman and Managing Director
Sushanth Pai — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Jayram Shetty — Analyst
Damodaran N — Analyst
Shreyansh Gattani — Analyst
Vasu Devan — Analyst
Avinash Bhaskar — Analyst
Mani — Analyst
Madhur Rathi — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Matrimony.Com Q3 FY ’25 Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr Shetti from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Jayram Shetty — Analyst
Hi, everyone. On behalf of ICI Securities, I would like to welcome you all to quarter three FY ’25 earnings call of. From the company, we have Mr, MD and CEO; and Mr Sushan Pai, the CFO. So over to you, Mr Raman, for your opening remarks.
Murugavel Janakiraman — Chairman and Managing Director
Okay. Thank you, Mr Jiran Pradesh. Good evening, everyone.
As per the — as per Google report on Mattoo money industry the whole industry has seen an 8% drop-in such queries for the first-ever time so all the players including a long-tail players have seen a similar drop and it is broader industry strength. Our member ratiation has fallen broadly in-line with the industry strength in the current financial year. So this has affected our monetization plans. During the last call, we are hopeful of renewal in-quarter three due to the marriage season and also due to the launch of our great India matchmaking test campaigns.
So the revenue was when we spoke last-time in October. We are hopeful of renewable in November and December on account of the reval of the wedding season as well as the plans you have for the media campaign. However, we’ve seen a drop-in November and December that has affected overall plan for the quarter three.
However, we are taking new initiatives to deliver the profile growth, including — we are launching a app. We already have our apps available in Tamil, and and we’ll be launching our apps and other languages very soon. We are also backing up these apps in language with communication so once we make the app audible in languages it will be amplifying tolerability through the media campaigns and we also expert personnel services to our double-digit growth on account of tips that we are taking to convert more members to go for a personalized services.
We are launching a new version of apps sometime this month. We have a lot of commonly based matimony apps. These apps are being one of the important pillar of our growth and been a very long-time since we’ve made any significant changes on these apps and we will launch a new version sometime this month. We continue to improve our product and we are seeing increased engagement and increase in key metrics.
We’re also experimenting new ideas to drive growth on all fronts, including new experiment and pricing strategies. We are also working on additional plans. We’re also taking steps to optimize our cost and that may happen sometime in-quarter one. We expect improved margins once the reval happens. We expect the reval sometime probably in the coming quarters.
Now coming to the results. In-quarter three, on a consolidated basis, we achieved a billing of INR109.4 crores, a decline of 1.5% quarter-over-quarter and 5.9% year-on-year. Revenue at INR11.4 crore, a decline of 3.5% quarter-on-quarter-quarter and 5.1% year-on-year.
KIL business in-quarter two are as follows: billing at INR108.3 crores, a decline of 1.4% quarter-over-quarter and 5% year-on-year, revenue at INR110 crores, a decline of 3.6% quarter-over-quarter and 4.2% year-on-year. We added 2.38 lakh paid subscription during the quarter, a decline of 3.7% quarter-over-quarter and 9.1% year-on-year. Average transaction value for the business increased by 2.4% quarter-over-quarter and 5.1% year-on-year. We created about 27,700 plus access stories.
Now coming to the managed services and other business, billing were at INR1 crore, a decline of 11%, 1.7% quarter-over-quarter and 50.7% year-on-year. Revenue was INR1.34 crore, a growth of 1.8% quarter-over-quarter and decline of 42% year-on-year. Loss in the quarter was INR3.8 crores compared to loss of INR3.64 crores in-quarter two FY ’25. The losses including initiatives are including wedding loan, and other initiatives.
On the billing and the revenue outlook for quarter-four, we expect the growth in matchmaking building in-quarter four on a quarter-over-quarter basis. However, that we declined — revenue decline due to the meter billing growth in-quarter three. Marriage Service is expected to be at similar level of that of quarter three.
Now let me pass-on to to comment on the key profitable. Over to you.
Sushanth Pai — Chief Financial Officer
Thanks, Murga.
Our EBITDA margin for the matchmaking business in Q3 is at 18.7% as compared to 22.6% in-quarter two and 18.9% a year-ago. Marketing expenses for matchmaking in-quarter three are at INR46.2 crores as compared to INR45.2 crore in-quarter two and INR45.5 crore a year-ago. Excluding marketing expenses, our margins in matchmaking are at 61% as compared to 59% a year-ago, a slight improvement in margins excluding marketing expenses.
On a consolidated basis, our EBITDA margins in Q3 are at 12.4% compared to 15.2% in-quarter two and 14.3% a year-ago. Tax-rate in the quarter is at 17.6% as compared to 23.3% in-quarter two due to higher long-term tax benefit after considering the holding period till quarter three. This is expected to normalize in-quarter four.
Profit-after-tax is at INR9.97 crore, a decline of 24.2% quarter-on-quarter and 10.2% year-on-year. Share of Q3 loss from, our associate company is about INR5.1 lakhs. Cash balance is at INR315 crore. It declined as compared to Q2 due to the buyback that we just concluded in Q3.
However, operating cash-flow generation to EBITDA has been robust at 100%. ROCE is 10.4%. On the outlook for Q4 margins, as Murgad discussed, we are taking various measures to increase traction in our businesses and also various measures to optimize cost. However, we expect the path to be lower than the levels of Q3 due to the subdued business momentum.
I would like to-end with the customary safe-harbor statement. Certain statements during this call could be forward-looking statements on our business. These involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause the actual results to differ materially from such forward-looking statements. We do not undertake to update any such forward-looking statements that may be made from time-to-time by on behalf of the company unless it is required by-law.
Now we can start the Q&A session.
Questions and Answers:
Jayram Shetty
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session.
Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets only while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembleswe have our first question from the line of N from Capital. Please go-ahead.
Damodaran N
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. Hope I’m audible.
Jayram Shetty
Yes, yes.. Please go-ahead, yeah,
Damodaran N
Sir. Yeah. So I have two questions in there.
Jayram Shetty
Thank you. Yes, please go-ahead. Yes, sir. He got disconnected. I’ll reconnect. This is my color this.
Damodaran N
Hello.
Jayram Shetty
Go-ahead with the questions. Yeah.
Damodaran N
Yeah. Can you hear me?
Jayram Shetty
Yes, Mr, please go-ahead.
Damodaran N
Yeah. So the question was on, I mean, revenue growth.
So you know, we are seeing a strong season currently and your competitor also had reported numbers yesterday and I know their base is much smaller. I mean, they are one-fourth our size, but they have still shown robust growth. And I mean, we also were expecting this season, I mean the issue to get over by Q3, but we have seen billings also declining by 5%.
So I really wanted to come in, check whether — is this — I mean, is this — I mean you’ve attributed this to an industry-wide issue, but going by the competitions numbers at least the one that we can see. They have still reported strong growth and we are still hearing of a strong math season. So where-is the disconnect and if you can throw some light, I mean, I heard your opening remarks which when you referenced that Google report. So can you give some more color as to why there is this disconnect, I mean, between what we can see and what — what the numbers are?
Murugavel Janakiraman
Okay. What are the — we had two questions. This one question.
Damodaran N
So the other one is kind of related. So the other one is on ad spends and you know we have been investing fairly significantly on ads in the last three, three years, three, four, four odd years, but you know yet despite that, I mean, we have seen revenue declining and this is in the backdrop of again your competition now kind of easing off on ad spends and still, I mean, management to grow revenue.
So should we — I mean, how should we look at ad spends? Is it — is it the spend that is required to kind of maintain these current level of subscribers? Is that how we should look at it or mean, because incremental ad spends is not yielding the same kind of revenue. So your December subs are flat on a two-year basis. So just wanted to — I mean, both the questions are kind of related. So if you can throw some light on this.
Murugavel Janakiraman
Thank you, Mr. Well, for the first one, you’re talking about the competitors.
So I think they made some changes three years back, the revenue are at a certain at certain base before they decided to offer a free service that impacted the revenue drop of that percentage now decide to kind of move-up the level. So sort of to some extent, they have gone back to the levels of revenue, what it was the earlier.
So definitely optimize the cost and we’ve seen that once again started the marketing campaign in-quarter three. So basically, the competitor reporting the strong increased number basically, they’ve gone back to the earlier trajectory, what they had previous to the addition what they’ve taken to offer a service as a free service when probably they do not see that same thing that they moved with different models.
So basically to some large extent, they’ve gone back to levels of the business message. When the base was rightly said that some growth happened from that base. So it’s not as it was few years ago, what is the base that on the base added growth that kind of thing is not the case. It is a more of change of business model once again gone back to the level to large extent. But some dollar done certainly some — probably some execution slightly better on what are the margins and what are the basis they have. So the industry is broader, it’s not limited to a one-to-one player.
So obviously, when you see some kind of better execution or some other parameter could have in some marginal increase or maybe the pricing, whatever it is. So it’s broadly that — but the industry is brought by everybody. So that’s the point I want to communicate.
With respect to the marketing spend, we well because still the industry is continuing to operate and one of the players we thought this sort of once we’ve only seen that advertisement. As startups at this point of time, everyone advertising. So we definitely see scope to optimize the marketing spend as I mentioned in the beginning of the call, we definitely see that, that there is an opportunity to optimize the cost in all fronts. So we probably see that happening in the coming quarters.
So — but again, without compromising on our intensity to compete across the market. So we’re definitely going to invest in North India and all the markets, but we definitely see the scope to optimize the cost growth. So we’ll continue to invest on all fronts. At the same time, you could able to earn a better outlook. So which — when you come back to the idea level. We definitely improved margin on account of that.
Damodaran N
Sure, sir. And just one — I mean related question, so I mean does this indicate that I mean we are kind of saturated in our core Southern market and I mean because the profiles, you’ve called out profiles, top of the funding profiles have not grown. So does that mean that we are facing a challenge because we are already fully penetrated in the Southern market and we are not able to go outside the Southern market for the same reason that the others are also not able to gain I mean, there has been no market-share gain by any player over the last three, four years.
So I mean, how should you look at the profile growth going down? Because if this — so the real question is, is it structural in nature or is it just a one-off thing that’s happening this year?
Murugavel Janakiraman
This — what is the for the — what is the reason for a broad trend of that while could be various reasons. But however, in terms of question, are we saturated or limited to south? It’s not the case. We are — our leadership is such a — it’s not a limited South. We are a leader in West, a leader in East and while not, we are one of the players and we are taking steps through diver paymentation in the Northern market.
So by the way you talk about overall industry put together the entire reach maybe our only 10 million users per annum compared to 60 million people are looking for live partners. So there is definitely a room to grow, just once a top of the funnel. So the steps what you are taking, we are the only player who launched now app in-region languages. We see that could be an opportunity. So we launched — we are now taking steps to get more number to sign-up on our platform. So we are going to take some steps. We are taking steps. While I spoke about language, one of the things we are definitely are looking at other avenues to also drive the profile acquisitions.
So we don’t see that it’s not a saturation because sometimes the industry may go through it. I don’t know whether it is. One of the — again, I smile your curator, I may be wrong also. During the COVID time, we saw the surgeon profile. I don’t know whether the starts were maybe now getting normalized. I don’t know. So at this point of time, you have no idea on why the broad industry has taken. However, it’s not that saturation has happened. That’s definitely not the case.
So we need to work on various ways to drive the top of the average because one is the land. We are also taking other initiatives. We are definitely highly confident of that driving the top of the. However, the top of the funda is only one-side of the story. So definitely there is a conversion, there is ARPU. Now we are looking at various strategies to drive these things.
Definitely, we see this year we’ll definitely able to demonstrate success in some other brands because we are launching a now coming to. There are plans around how to effectively leverage both the brands. So there are solid plans around it. We are also taking new initiatives. So I think in a way, it was — while it was challenging, but again, we are missing this challenge was an opportunity to how we can do Qatar in all aspects.
So while is the efficient organization other than be able to try effectively the new initiatives that is what you’re working on all fronts. I think I feel that maybe in the coming quarters will much stronger and will move the growth path. So it’s sort of seems to be a — you are doing the right thing on quite confident about the steps what you’re taking and the plans what you are.
Damodaran N
Sure, sir. And just one more question on the new initiatives, will the turn rate be in that INR10 crore, INR12 crore range that we have kind of maintained over the last three, four years or I mean since you have launched a multiple number — I mean multiple new initiatives. So or would you look at kind of increasing that threshold.
Murugavel Janakiraman
So basically, so what you’re doing is while definitely is a bunch — lot of new initiatives. So at this point, we don’t want to burn too much of cash. So we are — again, some of the initiatives to monetize, be it and say loud.com. We. We definitely once you reach a certain inst page, you want to monetize. So definitely, those initiative once you reach a certain base will start contributing. So I just want a burning. So like that other initiative as well.
So come to your question on will the losses be more than what we have been seeing broadly it’s in the same range. But once you see some traction, once you’re going to see some phenomenal growth, once you get a certain thing, right, that’s when I come back to on what is the initiative drive the growth. So I was thinking about — not about it’s more of a losses, it’s about driving the growth and achieving scale in size now. At this point in time, you can think that it will be a similar range, but it’s a lot of experience happening, but definitely some of the initiatives are very encouraging. So maybe in the coming quarters, we’ll have better visibility and better glad on.
So to answer the question will be in that
Damodaran N
Sure. That’s it from my side. Thanks for answering my questions and all the best.
Murugavel Janakiraman
Yeah. Thank you.
Jayram Shetty
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press that and want to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Sheyanj from SG Securities. Please go-ahead.
Shreyansh Gattani
Hi, good afternoon. So my first question is around the new initiatives. So basically around many jobs.
So if you just give you any kind of numbers that you can share about the number of employers and the number of jobs which have been done there as such. So just trying to understand where the progress on that.
Murugavel Janakiraman
So again, at this point, keeping only to out with the free service. We intend to monitor once we reach million resumes, once we reach probably 10,000 such employers and we already have close to a couple of lakhs of resumes and it’s going on fine and as I told, it’s still in a very early-stage and so only when you reach second phase-in terms of is and we know the better clarity on this thing. But at this point of time we feel you have a right.
Shreyansh Gattani
Got it, got it. And the second question is around services. So we’ve seen like a consistent burn over the years. Is there any services which you figured which are not working out, so you like shut-down or plan to do something of that sort. I understand the new initiatives, but something that’s not working out so that we can try to reduce the cash burn on those fronts, something that has not worked out over a period of time.
Murugavel Janakiraman
Yeah, we already taking steps and began the initiative that we are trying — one is the wedding in Tamin. Like we are not investing all wedding services, wedding services as the base and as the relationships we are trying to leverage for the new initiatives. So basically, we are investing against or focusing on initiatives where we feel the very good opportunity scale-up.
So — and other things, it’s more like innovation for the overall of the business model. So we’re not going to invest aggressively or invest on those fronts, but it has a can base, it has a reach, it has a relationship. Those relationships were important for the new business model. So obviously, we are trying to achieve a breakeven or run it at a certain level, but any initiatives, leverage the base of the of ecosystem.
Shreyansh Gattani
Got it. Thank you. That’s it from my end.
Jayram Shetty
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Vasu Devan from 2 value investment. Please go-ahead.
Vasu Devan
Hello, good evening, sir.
Murugavel Janakiraman
Yes, Mr.
Vasu Devan
The thing is, I’ve seen your accounts for the last two years, sir. It has been very flat to negative. Those have explained and all we have taken initiative. Even in the next quarter you are slightly subdued return only are expecting it. How long will it take actually to show-up? It is very flat with a negative buy us for the last say six to seven quarters sir. And this is my first question.
And after this, I got a suggestion to make also, sir. Can I make it right now or after you’re answering the question, sir?
Murugavel Janakiraman
No. No, whatever you can go-ahead on the position as
Vasu Devan
I came across a — how much is your revenue from the Astro or something like that you have? No. That astrology based, astrology based.
Murugavel Janakiraman
Yeah. Okay. Regarding the thing of in terms of last two quarters — last couple of years. So basically, so while the recent water we called and we are definitely per of the numbers sometime in the coming quarters. One thing is not only that the profitation, we are taking a lot of steps actually. Once I think move to that the growth path, I think the margins definitely get better because it should be already operating cost.
I think we are definitely hopeful of renewal in the coming — coming year, the coming financial year, whether one or two-quarter down the line, we may be longer also, but we are hopeful of yearly will then take longer-term, but at this point not sure we are confident of available in the early quarter.
In terms of, at this point in time, we are not giving a breakup of things. We are also experimenting various things in astrology. And so in fact, we have planned to change some model on astrology. So that may happen sometime this year, sometime this month. So are we kind of not giving a breakup of Mr.
Vasu Devan
And can I suggest one thing, sir. I came across a startup in Delhi called Astrotoxar. Yeah, they are purely on the astrology only. Their total turnover per year is INR600 crores. I think if I think this astrology is a low-hanging fruit, right? I think now, it is a time of INR600 crores a startup is making in Delhi. I think with a strong foundation which you are having, I think you can penetrate deep on this after this month-in that segment. This is my suggestion.
Actually, it’s a huge chance for you to shore up your top-line and bottom-line also, sir. This astrology is really — I mean that will contribute much more to your — what do you say for your mattimony account. That is what I feel, sir.
Murugavel Janakiraman
Thank you, Mr Devan. So we have some plans around way to probably see some new initially coming in this or we are something great opportunity. Thank you so much
Vasu Devan
Okay, sir. Thank you,. Thank you. Thank you.
Jayram Shetty
Thank you.
A reminder to all participants, you may press star and want to ask questions.
The next question is from the line of Avinaj Bhaskar, a shareholder. Please go-ahead.
Avinash Bhaskar
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. So the first question that I have is, is there any evidence of us losing, let’s say market-share in terms of new app downloads or profile is specifically in the South market to Shadi because of their lot of ads around Shadi.com or anything of that sort, especially at the app level app downloads.
Murugavel Janakiraman
So basically, while we continue our very-high market-share in South and market as well. So we also plan to leverage our reach. That’s where we launched a new version of — sorry, to, all these side. We have plans to cross-leverage our — all our apps. So we see in the coming quarters, we’ll definitely effectively leverage our reach and Q4 to benefit all our — all our group’s offering.
So basically, last couple of years have been working on lot of improvements on the core product offering and still the work-in progress. We hope to complete some of the key changes in the coming months, I mean, hopefully by March. Post that we definitely look at leveraging the network of sites for cross-promote cost leverage. So we’ll definitely see action happening in happening. So more of at this point of time, we want to get that core product right and we see definitely Bharat sites including all the target-based sites. We’ve seen that metrics going up. In fact, key metrics are moving up and engagements are pretty good.
So once is the revamp happens as we’ve been working for quite some time, then we see that we could able to leverage our reach for promoting all our groups of two.
Avinash Bhaskar
Got it. So what I should understand is historically speaking, there is been no change. Is that what I should take?
Murugavel Janakiraman
It’s basically we last more like more of side dose, we sites and also the site has been a long-time since you’ve done the. So the way you’re looking at the new version which is launch is similar of or thing. So it will be a similar functionality, maybe the maybe look until maybe different. So they make it easy for a customer to even use our.
So that’s going to happen. It’s all taken a fair little longer time because of the consider volume of that. When I think we see that the action in the coming quarters in terms of how we are effectively going to leverage the network of that?
Avinash Bhaskar
Okay. Okay. Got it. And then the second is this latest matchmaking campaign. So is that completed and any like has there been any considerable impact on any metrics or how should I look at it as a shareholder?
Murugavel Janakiraman
Which one?
Avinash Bhaskar
The matchmaking, the great Indian
Murugavel Janakiraman
It was yet another campaign didn’t of possibility the data itself or whatever the — I don’t know whether it’s what the industry trend or something. Anyway, we also launched a new TV campaign since we launched our — our apps in language that’s one of our communication new commercial.
So we now launched a new TV commercial across India and so communicating our company.
Avinash Bhaskar
Okay, thank you.
Jayram Shetty
Thank you.
A reminder to all participant, you may press star and want to ask questions.
The next question is from the line of Prabhu, an individual Investor. Please go-ahead. Mr Prabhu, we request you to unmute your line and go for the questions. MR.,
The next question is from the line of Mani, a shareholder. Please go-ahead.
Mani
Hi, good afternoon.
Sir, my question is regarding ad spend. Despite your multiple communication regarding ad spends being elevated, since it has been happening for quite a few years, there’s a little bit of thinking worry that probably this competitive dynamics has or the industry sectors kind of changed that this probably becomes a norm, especially considering our kind of industry where you have drop-offs in terms of profiles on a regular basis.
So what I would like to understand is leaving the competition aside, how has our ad spend being spent in the last four, five years? How much of it was used for gaining market-share in the Northern and the Western markets where we are traditionally slightly weak? Or how much of it being used for defense against the inflow competition in Southern markets and all?
So if you can just split it up a little bit in terms of strategy, how do you go about spending your ad in the last couple of years and where did you get return on investment commensurate to the spends and where do you see levels of optimization in the future forward.
So that will help us explain in terms of whether structurally anything has changed in this industry or whether it is just a phase of increased ad spend and it is going to go away in the future. So that confidence I’m not getting because of last four, five years of continuous elevated spend. So if you can that here, that will be helpful.
Murugavel Janakiraman
Thank you. Thank you, Mani. I think there are a combination of multiple things. Look at the ad spend of the definitely elevated level. What are the reasons, there are multiple reasons. One is that it’s increased competition. When the people are fighting for the market stuff, then obviously everything shoots up, including our digital spend and be it on the Google because other people are trying to grab the market-share one of the ad spend both upon the platform because people are trying to get their share of the thing and our people are trying to different markets are trying to their.
So basically, the elevators spend contribute the increase in digital spend because the people are trying to get — even digital has gone up. We’re talking about the Google spend because everybody try to spend for this keyword and all, but maybe on the platform. But on the TV, obviously people are trying to get a share and that means you are spending more than what is it cost. So the elevate level marketing spend not required or is not. It’s a more of — if everyone wants to think, then obviously some people try to grab, something tried to different or it’s a combination of both the thing that net-net set a certain dynamics now.
But as we say that there will be some kind of softness in one of the players obviously they tried to enter on India, they realize that they better to focus on one market. So that has happened. Definitely that is one thing. We also see some market, some smaller markets, some ad spend has come down or not that. So still it’s not still at higher-level, but we see some kind of softness. How long is going to continue? I’m not sure, okay.
So — and but in dominate digital, it’s gone up. TV, yes, it does but income market we see some kind of softness but still at a but higher-level, but definitely this level of it could not recur. It’s more of favorability. But I will say that while let’s say competition has to be there also. Now we are taking steps just to what will be the competition in the speed on all the things. We are now working on the ways to drive our growth and all those in taking new initiatives or new strategies. So I think that’s the roadmap for us for the coming year.
Mani
Sir, just a follow-up, how should we look at it? Should we — should we think like since you mentioned that digital probably it has gone up slightly more, do we look at it as there are certain mediums like digital versus TV where we are spending lesser? So we had to apartment in terms of digital to beat the bare minimum or should we look at certain markets where we were like in underspending, so that’s why we had to keep it up or do you — do we look at it as certain markets, we were spending the requisite level, but then since competition has come in and that’s meant a lot more. So we had to increase our spend just to cope with that the elevated spend.
I’m still not getting a complete clarity in terms of where exactly our spend was increased. And if so, what is the reason behind that increase and what have we learned from it? And then future forward, why should we get the content that is going to go down because it is a completely wasteful spend. So that if you can expand on it a little bit?
Murugavel Janakiraman
No, that’s the thing. The thing is that I’m not getting the market-wise that this market you are investing to this market new degraph because that’s more of the competitivenes we are not getting retail. However, we’re talking about are you spending more money than what is it? Definitely that’s the case. Even for even say some markets, it’s difficult to the varies. In some markets, the spend has gone up just to because it is increase in marketing spend much more than what is required for the market. We increased so that we are also certain level of visibility in the market.
So that’s the point number-one. So are you spending more than what is required just to because of the increased competition? That’s the case. There are marketing to grow. Yes, there are marketing investing growth also. So look at Nath, definitely investing to grow. Now this month, we’re going to have both Bharat camp in North India because we feel like we’re not grow a combination of Bharat coming to North India.
So basically, it’s a combination of both of things. I’m not getting into at this point of time, Mani, that okay, this market is spending more. Overall to say that is definitely the marketing spend, I think in the past also has. Our marketing spend around — well, definitely going to see some reduction in the coming quarters on the marketing spend because we definitely see that the scope to run efficiency without compromising on the required visibility or require the spend to defend the market or grow the market. We definitely see some kind of optimization forward. That’s going to happen.
So two things, one, if you look at what is the marketing spend, I think it can even easily increase of INR47 crores, probably you can even 35 crores and all because the competition should go down. So that’s the kind of — when you spend that kind of money on-market or even INR30 crores per quarter is good enough.
Mani
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. And just one last thing. I also wanted to wish Sushant for his time at Matthew Mahi. I found his communication to be very sensible and same and I wish him the best-in all his future endeavors. Thank you.
Murugavel Janakiraman
Yeah, you’ve done a great job and I wish him all the best. One of the leaders who has done a good contribution.
Sushanth Pai
Thank you, Mani, for your kind words.
It’s been a great journey and learning for me at and I wish you also the very best-in all your efforts.
Jayram Shetty
Thank you.
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The next question is from the line of Madhur Rathi from Countercyclical Investors. Please go-ahead.
Madhur Rathi
Hi, sir, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I’m trying to understand. So I joined the call a bit late, so I wanted to understand, sir, this drop-in billing and it has been constant for the past two to 3/4. So why is that and what are the efforts that we are taking to increase this billing rate so on that?
And sir, second question would be, sir, there has been an increase in average transaction value, sir. So has this been because of the Elite and the other services that we are providing or anything else?
Murugavel Janakiraman
Yeah. Thank you, Mr Madur Raki. One is that we feel that there is a — there’s our profitation dropped to some extent in-line with the Google report which you watch that. As per the Google’s report, the industry has seen an 8% decline in the such queries across the — across the players and broadly, we are also broadly in-line and that has affected the top-of-the-line of the funnel got affected, that has resulted in the degrowth.
The good thing there, we have not seen any drop-in conversion metrics on account of the drop-in depreciation. We continue to convert very well. So in terms of — that’s the reason we are taking steps to the profile appreciations and aim to launch our apps in languages and also we are taking other steps to the growth, including the improving the conversion pricing target.
In terms of what is the increase in ARPU is then the mix — one is about our pricing strategies and also the mix of change before on account of percentage services moving up. So when the percentage had higher ARPU that has resulted in the increase in ARP.
Madhur Rathi
Got it. Sir, do we follow some kind of a micro transaction or those kind of strategies like a freemium model where similar to our competitors or do we plan to utilize some of these strategies going-forward?
Murugavel Janakiraman
So while there are different strategies, we are — while definitely have some plans to provide some differently for different add-on services. So maybe for maybe a will be working on various pricing strategies and definitely look at things like some small payment for some services. So that’s the plans are that now.
Madhur Rathi
Okay, got it. And sir, over a longer-term maybe a two to three year period as the competition succeeds or the marketing spend succeed. So where do we see our business growing in terms of number of usual billings as well as the margins on the margin front?
Murugavel Janakiraman
So margin front that they definitely move-up, so we can go on even definitely move very well because today we’re operating at 12% PAT margin. So it can even go to 20% as well. So it depends on both our taxing growth and marketing costs going that. But overall that in level and EBITDA level definitely comfortably go beyond 2025 also.
Madhur Rathi
Okay, got it. That — sir, those were my questions from my side, sir. Thank you so much and all the best.
Jayram Shetty
Thank you.
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Sushanth Pai
If there are no questions may be you can.
Jayram Shetty
Okay, sir.
Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, I now hand the call to management for closing comments.
Over to you, sir.
Sushanth Pai
Thank you sir. Thank you to ICICI Securities for hosting this call and thank you all for joining.
We look-forward to speaking with you in the coming quarter. And if you have any questions, please do write to us. Thank you.
Jayram Shetty
Thank you very much, sir. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.