Mastek Ltd (NSE:MASTEK) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall dated Apr. 19, 2023.
Corporate Participants:
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Asha Gupta —
Baidik Sarkar — Unifi Capital — Analyst
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
Ravi Menon — Macquarie — Analyst
Amit Chandra — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Ravi Naredi — Naredi Investments — Analyst
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Mihir Manohar — Carnelian Asset Management — Analyst
Darshit Vora — RoboCapital — Analyst
Pratap Maliwal — Mount Intra Finance Private Limited — Analyst
Sameer Dasani — ICICI Prudential AMC — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Mastek Limited Q4 FY ’23 Earnings Conference Call.[Operator Instructions].
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Asha Gupta from E&Y, LLP. Thank you, and over to you, ma’am.
Asha Gupta —
Thank you for that[Phonetics]. Good evening to all of you. Welcome to the Q4 and full-year FY23 earning call Mastek Limited. [Technical Issues] And the maybe mentioned and you can see on the left. Thanks Mastek. To take us not look and eventually as.
Operator
The audio was and[Phonetics] from your line. Please check.
Asha Gupta —
[Technical Issues] This is. below the. And on the low question, we’ve had Limited Mastek inkjet is limited by 11% below and Arun Agarwal, who will be able. It at the positive EBITDA sorry you all.
Operator
The audio is unclear from your line.
Asha Gupta —
I’m audible now.
Operator
The audio is [Indecipherable]. It is audible now, yes.
Asha Gupta —
Okay. Sorry for that. Did they got the results today and answer your question, we have top management of Mastek represented by Hiral Chandrana Global CEO; and Arun Agarwal, Global CFO, Hiral will start the call with a business update. It will be then followed by Arun, providing the financial update for the quarter. As usual I would like to remind you that anything that is said on this call. That’s impact any outlook for the future or which can be construed as forward-looking statements must be viewed in conjunction with that, [Technical Issues] it’s uncertain if back. These risks and uncertainties are included but not limited to what we have mentioned in the prospectus filed with SEBI and the subsequent annual report that you can find it on our website. Having said that, I’ll now hand over the call to Hiral Chandrana over you Hiral.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
All right. Good evening, everyone. Are you able to hear me okay?
Operator
Yes, sir.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Can you confirm. Okay, thanks. And that’s a key. So I’ll cover three things. Quick financial highlights for Q4 and FY23. Some business updates on the quarter as well as the full year. And then some quick update on the FY24 strategic priorities and outlook. We’ll then hand it over to Arun for more detailed financial update. So for the quarter-four, that ended, we grew at 7.7% quarter-on-quarter from Q3 to Q4. On an IRR basis and 5.3% quarter-on-quarter. On a constant-currency basis.Our operating EBITDA for the quarter was 17.20[Phonetics]. But FY23. We grew at 18.5%. On a revenue basis, constant currency. Order book backlog, which is the 12 months order book backlog that we closely track 17.2% year-on year. And our full-year operating EBITDA was in the same range of about 17.8%. In terms of quarter four, we are pleased with. Good deal of momentum. As well as progress on the multiple strategic priorities that we’ve been outlining for the last year or so. I’ll share with you some of the highlights. And then move into the FY24 updates. The FY23 as a whole. We had some quarters in India that be investing [Technical Issues] about. And of the policy count in our inventory.
Operator
Sir now breaking. It’s unclear, sir.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Okay, are you able to hear now?
Operator
Now it is better. Thank you.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Okay, so for FY23 as a whole. For the full-year. We had some challenging couple of quarters that we have discussed in the past. Excluding NHS with respect to a couple of areas within the Oracle. We are pleased to inform that there has been a good progress that has been made on multiple aspects of the business. And some of that is reflecting in the Q4 results as well. In addition to the business growth quarter-on-quarter. We are very happy to have received great places to work certification.
As well as our attrition is 21% on a 12-month basis. Last 12 months, which is a drop of 700[Phonetics]. Somebody yet to go. We also received some recognition externally from the market from various industry analysts. Including our recent recognition from ISG. As a booming 15 player in the global system integration. We also struck a partnership with an AI company called net sale. Which provide AI-based competitive intelligence solutions in the retail and consumer industrial. In terms of our business in UK. We had solid in corporate execution. A key when in one of our premier account in UK where we manage Borders trade biometrics immigration asylum services.
We had developed multiple solutions and multiple systems for them in the path we’ve extended that. A biometric program, which helps automate multiple processing. For students and immigrants to legally moving. One well, that we reported last quarter is a large manufacturing company in the US. There we have been awarded, complete transformation of business processes from finance, HR, supply chain, powered by Oracle Cloud. But excited about this particular well In addition to the overall value of the well-being more than 5 million. Because one of our non-linear solutions Warehouse 360 was also deployed as part of the —
Operator
Sir now breaking. It’s unclear, sir.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Okay, are you able to hear now?
Operator
Now it is better. Thank you.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Okay, so for FY23 as a whole. For the full-year. We had some challenging couple of quarters that we have discussed in the past. Excluding NHS with respect to a couple of areas within the Oracle. We are pleased to inform that there has been a good progress that has been made on multiple aspects of the business. And some of that is reflecting in the Q4 results as well. In addition to the business growth quarter-on-quarter. We are very happy to have received great places to work certification.
As well as our attrition is 21% on a 12-month basis. Last 12 months, which is a drop of 700[Phonetics]. Somebody yet to go. We also received some recognition externally from the market from various industry analysts. Including our recent recognition from ISG. As a booming 15 player in the global system integration. We also struck a partnership with an AI company called net sale. Which provide AI-based competitive intelligence solutions in the retail and consumer industrial. In terms of our business in UK. We had solid in corporate execution. A key when in one of our premier account in UK where we manage Borders trade biometrics immigration asylum services.
We had developed multiple solutions and multiple systems for them in the path we’ve extended that. A biometric program, which helps automate multiple processing. For students and immigrants to legally moving. One well, that we reported last quarter is a large manufacturing company in the US. There we have been awarded, complete transformation of business processes from finance, HR, supply chain, powered by Oracle Cloud. But excited about this particular well In addition to the overall value of the well-being more than 5 million. Because one of our non-linear solutions Warehouse 360 was also deployed as part of the program in the Salesforce business. We’ve had good momentum in healthcare and public sector one of the interesting. Bill has been in the financial services sector. The payment side company. then automating multiple parts. Most important powered by Salesforce and also taking responsibility for cloud operations and application development of new solutions. Another win that we had was in the managed services apiece.
And one of the healthcare clients in the US. Our approach to managed services has been cloud enhancement services we take over the run and maintain part of the business. We’ve had some interesting wins in Middle-East, as well as in Australia. Some of the success that we’ve had in the auditors space. In our UK state and local government councils. Have now been deployed and replicated in Australia where we see good potential to leverage those learnings and have there’s multiple other. Wins and delivery successes and go-live that we’ve had in the product. Thank you. Hussain backfill in FY20. We had account mining as one of the key priorities. And while we underestimated the time it would take. To make that successful it is starting to show results in pockets of certain accounts. Reflected in our growth. Of greater than one million accounts and greater than INR3 million about. We have also made a couple of key leadership update, which we announced earlier in the quarter. In Q4.
Prameela joined us as COO of Mastek. And Vijay Iyer, joined us as a medical specialty. Both of them have been few weeks now in the system and have settled down well.
Asha Gupta —
We will invite them for future calls. So that they can give you an update as well. As it relates to. Margins. We continue to put focus on. Operating efficiencies utilization. You’d have seen progress in those metrics.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Which is now reflected in our growth in revenue. Minimum headcount gross in seasons because we’ve been able to deploy and make some of the billable, make them of the freshers and associates billable. In the last one or the quarters. This is part of our strategy where we want to continue to do margins. So that we can reinvest back into the business. As it relates to 24, moving into the next fiscal year, we are already into day 90 of the new fiscal year. We feel that the changes and the improvements that we’ve made to look at multiple aspects of the business, right. Some recruiting to account mining.
The marketing. Capability development. Are starting to the results and. While the macro-environment still remains uncertain. There is still caution among customers in terms of deals and division. We’ve continued to see our order backlog grow. And we continue to see our pipeline at a healthy level. Our Salesforce business, which is the acquisition that we made last year. As delivered. Almost 118% of the plan. Of the acquisition plan. Q4. Pleasingly, big quarter for MST. But the outlook for the business and the momentum and pipeline that we have in our Salesforce business remained strong. UK business has shown tremendous resilience and in proper execution. We believe the foundational pieces that we have important in US. We’ll also reflected in strong quarter-on-quarter growth and full-year growth in FY24.
One of the businesses, which has a really to some extent. Positively surprised about middle-East. Even though we reduced the number of accounts. We actually sure saw the revenue growth. Uptick in that geography. With good order book momentum in the good number be forward. And this least in Australia. We’re starting to see good momentum in digital services. But clearly in specific areas like ServiceNow, and Microsoft. And still. All-in-all that while there have been challenges FY23. We are closing on a very strong note in Q4. With a good foundation to pay down and demonstrate industry-leading growth. And above industry averages into 540. With that, I’ll pass it on to other and we’ll be happy to answer questions after that. Thank you. It’s very warm welcome to everyone on the call.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
While taking continuing much more detailed information about our financial performance and messages has already been circulated reflect upon key highlights and we can after getting into Q&A. To have a specific question answered. the key highlight our operating Jamie stood at INR709 crores for the quarter, reflecting 7.7% quarter-on-quarter and 22% year-on-year growth, 900. the quarter-on-quarter growth of 5.3%. Growth was led by strong execution as Hiral alluded to by UK, all of in Middle East. Across if you’d government out-of-the Oracle business. We have seen good order booking geography. As a result, our 12 month order backlog is not one and $18 million, this is up by 5.2% quarter-on-quarter and 22% year-on-year and in constant-currency terms, 17.0% year-on-year.
We added 28 times during the quarter, it is across verticals and across geographies. Our acquisition of MST continues to do better than that potential in while we are closing costs in coastal opportunities, a lot of integrated and the momentum is building up. Our operating EBITDA stood at 17.7% for the quarter in of the quarter-on-quarter, it is led by improved operating levers and currency. While we continue to invest in-building capability, in-line with our 3-year strategy. But it is stood at INR72.6 crores, 8.2% quarter-on-quarter. Our gross cash was INR270 crores versus INR325 crores in December 2022.
During the quarter, we completed the acquisition of second tranche of CCPS. Of loan and it was. And also the first interim dividend. Our borrowing stood at CNN, INR71 crores as on 31st March, reduced from INR397 crores as of December 2022. Hey[Phonetics] pipeline in 2022 at the end-of-quarter, reflecting a net reduction of 65 headcounts. Consequently, our utilization improved by 50 bps quarter-on-quarter.
The I would like to thank you all and open the house for Q&A and we can give you too much more details. Thank you, Jim[Phonetics].
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session.[Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. [Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Baidik Sarkar from Unifi Capital. Please go-ahead.
Baidik Sarkar — Unifi Capital — Analyst
Gentlemen, good evening and congrats on a good consolidated quarter, couple of questions. The numbers on Oracle continued softness, right. So what exactly is going on here, because our base isn’t large enough to warrant softness, even if there is some kind of a slowdown at employee level. You know, do you think this is temporary. We’ll Oracle pulled back. So I’m kind of commentary there would help. And back to the UK is the reason to believe that acceleration we’ve seen in Q4 will continue for the rest of the year because you don’t coming out of a very soft period. So very healthy acquisition there or would you caution us saying that note this is a positive blip and execution in the UK is something that beginning to see on a day-to day business.
And I’ll just close this with one question on before I come back on the financials. On the US cereal, the lack of growth that we’ve seen here now constant only what is this really a function of, is it the function of a lack of reference ability because frankly the cost takeout ecosystem that we’re hearing anecdotally is still very strong. Our base isn’t really large enough to kind of warrant softness, even if the environment as such a soft. What is it or are does it really warrant better investment than a market level?So yeah, our legal three questions and I’ll come back to you, Chuck[Phonetics]. Thank you.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
All right, thanks. Baidik. The oracle business actually grew for us. While you might see some. Small dip in terms of percentages from Ocotlan cotton on quarter perspective, that business grew. So while we had seen some level of softness in the previous projects. The momentum, both on the deal wins as well as on revenue growth has been positive there discretionary objects and implementation. We’ll be under scrutiny. Increased scrutiny in terms of investments, but we’ve also won. New entrants implementations and managed services deals in Q4. That gives us. Confidence that the digitization and classification and movement to the SaaS platform will continue to remain and customers are trying to get more ROI under the Nestle. In terms of UK we did get the benefit of higher number of working days in Q4 as well as currency help as well. But as I mentioned in the past. While the environment as a country as volatile. Our business is still. Brazilian, particularly in the secure government services at core public separate and the work that we continue to do is of national critical important. So I wouldn’t Call-IT a blip. There is good progress in diversifying. Some of our presence in UK and we is potential going-forward as.US has been disappointing. If you look at some of the. Accounts discussions and investments that we’ve made and some of the delays in position that, we did get impacted by a significant drop-in the Oracle Cloud Commerce.
This is the cloud commerce e-commerce space, which. I couldn’t be prioritized got back. But we’ve reached the bottom of that and negated. All the dip that we saw from that, Sale. So we feel confident that some of the changes that we’ve made in converting some of those accounts into managed services. Diversifying our business into data and Abdel areas in some pockets of customers as well as uptick in the Oracle Cloud space in the Salesforce synergies. That US is PAT[Phonetics] for a growth going into FY24, so hopefully, but. I think that answers. Happy to take more later, but [Indecipherable]. \
Baidik Sarkar — Unifi Capital — Analyst
Sure, so yeah. I mean I got probably used to come back, but on Oracle Hiral on Q4 of last fiscal Q4 ’24 our run-rate was $27.5 million and we are struggling in the $23 million, $24 million for last two quarters. So you there might have been a sequential growth, but we have to clear that base, right. So my question was look-forward looking is there enough ammunition for us to believe that will? You go back to at least half the pace of growth that we’ve seen in the Oracle ecosystem or would you caution us saying that, no. I mean, the growth rate, what we delivered this quarter. It’s more indicator of what is to come. I’m just trying to understand in other quantum of growth as one can expect here.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Will both Oracle and Salesforce both those which constitute reasonable portion and that some qualified for Intel within our overall business. We expect both those to continue to grow higher than our company average. And both of them bill have deal momentum in order book backlog. That gives us confidence of been growing faster than.
Baidik Sarkar — Unifi Capital — Analyst
Sure, you become a disclosure perspective, if I could request you from the next quarter to probably try and disclose Salesforce also. I mean just to at least call-out the number separately. It will and plus place your journey in context. I’ll just end with one last question on bookkeeping. Are we done with the entire payouts and dilution that was due to the promoters of Evosys or. I mean, what was this last year although September of next year? The last Arun.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
So we have done with two tranche, spending, but that will happen in the October of 2023. That’s the last.
Baidik Sarkar — Unifi Capital — Analyst
Okay because your minority transition was almost 100% this quarter, so was just a bit confused and on margins. Our aspiration was to come back to 20% at EBITDA level, right? No, that was an aspiration for next year given the cost the revenue environment is there any change that aspiration we on track. Got[Phonetics] you mentioned that.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Yes. I think as we mentioned earlier, high-teens was that exploration we continue aspiring to that, but. I think we are very close to 17.7% and full-year basis, 17.8 right. We believe that as a good means to operate around and beyond to operating that range you definitely need on the want to come back to be higher and higher EBITDA profile as we started shipping our advertisers.
Baidik Sarkar — Unifi Capital — Analyst
Okay, all the best. I’ve been touched. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mohit Jain from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
Hi. Sir, most of my questions are on the cost side. So one is there was a steep increase in employee expenses this quarter versus last quarter. So is still specific hike which was given during the quarter or. Where does headcount is declines to one is that. Second, in terms of Subcon like where are we currently in the overall scheme of things. And how should we see that as we move ahead in terms of bigger absolute numbers, wherever you are comfortable.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
[Indecipherable] with. Thanks. Mohit, yes they. The increase in overall. But India multiple factors into it, one is the currency conversion also has led to some impact as we are getting advantage into revenue in you get reflected into the cost and conversion as well. That’s one, second is, while the headcount has gone down, but that’s more like a month-end in number, which is impact., the decline has happened on the later part of the month which. Cost and coming to the DBT and other initiatives, as we continue to invest in the right talent. Having those semi-standards is pretty critical for us kind of what some of the talent account goes down. But when you hired them onshore and you would have seen an onsite-offshore mix of the wind-up because as UK growth comes more in the picture comments that is still hi have cost. In terms of overall been definitely the referrals, better.
So margin is protected. But in terms of absolute number, you see the cost that’s Manpack, similarly in the subcontractors as well.. Some portion of our work in the secure government fees need security cleared and some of those because are not amenable and to the employment market, and you have to get them first-in-the security cleared market and subcontractors and gradually start converting them into the employment into the environment to the point-of-view, are we comfortable with our subcontractors percentage to the overall answer is no. David[Phonetics] scope of improvement and that’s one of the liver, which you are booking on two in Dubai[Phonetics], gross margin and EBITDA profile of [Indecipherable].
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
So right now this upon cost will be sitting in other expenses. Is that correct?
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yes.
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
So some of the, as we move ahead, we should see some of the advertisement is getting converted into employee benefits as you translate the Subcom convert some of them into advise.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Absolutely.
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
Okay, and then two, are related to revenues. Now, one is this growth in BFSI such professional services. So you spoke about one in essence happy vendor for should we expect the growth in BFSI vertical to continue and all of it driven? So that’s one. And second on UK help. So this particular revenue number was not moving for some time now, do you see stabilization in ’24, therefore, should we expect more growth to be given the UK?
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
So, Mohit. The financial services sector, it’s not currently a broad-based sector for us as you know. We do have a few good account in the UK and a couple of accounts in US. And then few in Middle-East. So it’s still sizable, but not one of our biggest this particular account is a very large organization US headquartered organization there we have seen. Some interesting momentum and deal when but it is not something that. It’s across-the-board Board and the industry as such for outside as of right now, it is more account specific. So that’s our EBITDA.
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
So the ramp-up should we assume that you guys have, presumably in fourth quarter. Could we assume that this ramp-up in if they will happen in 1Q, 2Q as well?
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, we club. I think some yeah. I mean, it’s kind of ramped-up but the club a couple of professional services. Industrial accounts into that plus tailored brands. It’s a combination of poor financial services, and adolescent ability. But that and then. I mean is selective opportunities in that sector. But it is in a few set of accounts and that we had as far as health in UK. And particularly won by the time that we have. We still see uncertainty in terms of. The organization and the changes that they have. But we have been in our position. All the net account, we have actually run a few deals as Phil indicated earlier, but the organization has decided not to ramp them up, we’ll have potential possibilities for the future. But going into FY23, we have taken a conservative view on UK help.
We want to make sure that. Little bit of a reset on the baseline and look at specific areas is a very detailed strategy that the team has put together. And if there is an uptick in terms of opening up of by NHS and we would benefit from it, but we taken by design is underway, the on the other hand, we see tremendous potential going-forward in FY24 from both US and Middle-East healthcare. So that is one area that we have invested in particularly with Oracle’s acquisition of Cerner. And our own capabilities within the Salesforce ecosystem in delivering and [Indecipherable] PY solution. That was a great example of a customer where a case study in the market, which is vetted by the customer and Salesforce.
Similarly, we are very strong in senior living, Acute Care, Home Care and delivering some really interesting programs. So we do see health care while we’ve seen the bid because of the one NHS account that we have in UK, but as a whole that’s an important industry for us and we expect that to grow significantly as a whole And if I could[Phonetics].
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
And just a clarification, did I get it right that recognized 45%, 47% of the business, was that the comment or?
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
No, Mohit the Oracle and Salesforce put together. Combined is about for the [Indecipherable].
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
45%, 47% or else what you disclosed as Oracle Cloud that is there, it is sitting 29% number or will it be across service lines?
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
There is some across those lines because in some elements of CX and elements of data.
Mohit Jain — Anand Rathi — Analyst
Before Oracle is slightly higher than 29% and total the to Tech[Phonetics] is around 45% for you. All right sir, thank you very much. And the all the best.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ravi Menon from Macquarie, please go ahead.
Ravi Menon — Macquarie — Analyst
Thank you, gentlemen. Good numbers for graduation from that. Well, it sounds about. Just US government business. But shown good traction that you described how the bank sales customer percent. That’s ramping up well. Of the other parts, are there any indications of new programs. That’s the last question. Second, the US, it’s flat on copper. I think last quarter we had upon de-risk to start an offshore development center for a client. So while expecting to see some multiple ramp-ups. That project got delayed. Is that already bit uppers. Thanks.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
So that your first question. The line was not fully clear. But your first, especially related to. Keeping local government in Europe. Greg back are there.
Ravi Menon — Macquarie — Analyst
Hiral Deutsche about the UK government business. Outside of NHS it is up.
Yes. And sorry. What was the specific question on the first, I the UK government. Yes sir, you said that you sort of do biometrics program, but to how the amount pipeline think there beyond us.
Yeah. so, no thanks,, so. UK government. And if you leave NHS perfect getting secure government services side. We. Have been participating in some very large framework. As you know. And some of those frameworks. A big-time in terms of ramp-up. However, we have a seat at the table. While there are multiple vendors and some of the same. We believe that there is certain market-share that we can continue to gain through the process. The next one is, we have been obtained. These are very-very large. [Technical Issues] Opportunity. There is the diversification of our presence that we have continued to make because we had two large institutions that. We worked with about a particularly three or four. Which has continued to. Sure, but we are trying to also make sure that we new opportunities police protection. In some of the time done that. I have mentioned in my. In the workforce and pension GWP able example.
So the. Areas that will dependent diversify outside of the base that we always have. Also our and local government in business in UK. We work with about 29% it’s still. A sizable presence for us and we continue to specifically Oracle work there, but there opportunity to cross-pollinate. With other platforms. seen interested in Microsoft, for example. As well as AWS and Salesforce and profit UK public.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
The last thing I’d say [Indecipherable] public secto is that central government. While we have a very good presence on the digital engineering side of things Oracle as a company and as a business, there’s a lot of work independent government, do we see any opportunity, it’s a little bit more medium-term of picking our Oracle Cloud story as the government modernizes then moves to the cloud, independent development.
Canadian from a by perspective, some of those have longer cycles, so we have to see some of the investments and scale with specifically businesses. So hopefully that. So we don’t have until that part of the question.
Ravi Menon — Macquarie — Analyst
Thank you, Hiral.
And FRS of the help dals that you are referring to and that has ramped-up to some extent, it is one of the Blues that we had communicated in the last quarter in fact.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
That particular we seeing new areas that, but the customer is interested in the data space and we believe that. Like I said, the Blues, in the US in particular. It’s a good opportunity for the best assets that we have invested in Q1. So there is no issue in that particular accounts. In fact, good opportunity.
Ravi Menon — Macquarie — Analyst
Okay. Thank you. And sir, just longer-term question on the Oracle side, I thought. The work that reverses. That was very project-oriented and we would people to we’ll do a lot of time, but that’s a constant treadmill of projects around. Has that changed. How would we see that the Oracle business, you were talking about that? Growing above the company average is that predicated getting a new pipeline of larger deals, are we going? Two of our annual jewelry that model to that.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, really good question. Ravi, both those are true. We wanted to make sure that our dependency on pure implementation and project is. It’s limited. Right. I mean in the sense that some of those deal sizes have taken longer. We have one actually. Our average deal size in the Oracle piece, and in Q4, having said that, like you rightly said last three-four quarters we made a shift by design. In having more managed services and annuity work now, both come with three years, Dean timeframe. So the ECB values of that might be lower, but having said that, the bid by the established stickiness. But if to continue in mind or the columns, which is a key part of our strategy. So while we continue to see projects and implementation, but our mix is definitely changing significantly. Towards the combination of projects and managed within that.
In fact, we work that will be in Middle East has a high degree of annuity and managed services. As an example, so she had the combination.
Ravi Menon — Macquarie — Analyst
Great, thank you. And one last, just about they. On the US environment. We’ve been hearing that we’re up in project, but on all our customers are starting to show some reluctance to come back to CapEx, are you starting to see any of that did you given your restaurant basis. Little bit more smaller companies, would there be more at-risk in this environment.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yes, we in fact had. We will do quarters back that I pointed out that’s been, but the delays in that equipment facilities in Q4 in particular, the copper gone by, we’ve not seen any. Are there any then balance. But to new projects. But being position are definitely taking longer. And in some cases. It’s a long-life, you might have seen in the past. But a couple of wins that we announced. This is an interesting. It could be a handset vendor be announced. Again these are these, which. But when we could months longer than we anticipated, then. I think they will continue to see that and certainly the right many of the investments and going right up to the CEO, or even to the Board. In terms of approval cycle. And so that I think the trend that we see at least for the next two to three projects.
But what we’ve done is we’ve put strong. Account managers in some of our key accounts, you need to do more work-in that space. But we do see a mining opportunity in our some of our existing. And also strengthening the value proposition that we take to our clients. Combination of our functional architecture and industry knowledge and putting that together in the context of the customer. And helping. Customers save money instead of just spend money, so Model where we can actually modernize, but also optimize. At the same time. It’s what we are taking some of our existing clients, but. I think. The caution that that’s smoothing probably industry level. The news of an impact in the next couple of.
Ravi Menon — Macquarie — Analyst
Thank you so much and best luck.
Thank you. Ravi.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities, please go ahead.
Amit Chandra — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Yeah, hi, sir, am I audible.
Operator
Yes, you’re audible.
Amit Chandra — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Yeah. Yes, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. So my, my question is on the NHS recovery. So you mentioned that we have seen recovery in the energy account. So if you can throw some more light on how the holiday and just modular, that was happening. How does the. I know on completed and also the recovery that we have seen was at the end-of-the our at the end-of-the quarter or we have seen the full-quarter impact of NHS recovery and also in terms of the contract that we had one earlier with NHS the with the merger. Has there been any changes in the contract structuring our we are seeing that move of the existing I’m thank you very much.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yes, so I’ll just thanks for the question. I just wanted to clarify, in case. There some miscommunication in EMEA. So we’ve definitely seen growth in our. Governments ever only. But that is not necessarily NHS. A recovery and it’s specific growth of recovery. We. We continue to see some uncertainty in the leadership and the structure of NHS. And some of the merger and integration. They’re going to and that’s the point. I was trying to make earlier than we’ve taken a conservative view going into FY 24. Related. We feel that it has bottomed-out in terms of our, but there is still uncertainty, so but our growth. And the to be far. Nipisi invested are. That’s the secure government services side. Love to be doing it.
Amit Chandra — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Okay, and only on the.
Operator
Sorry to interrupted sir. The audio is unclear from your line. Please use the handset mode.
Amit Chandra — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Hello. Is it clear enough. Yes, sir yeah so Hiral only. I mean investments that made on the UK private. Side. So I don’t obviously we are seeing benefits of it, but what kind of growth we are expecting from the UK private segment, especially because of the financial services and obviously on the retail side and also in terms investments are we through the investments in the UK private and also on the US side, we have done some restructuring there. So, as opposed Vijay coming in, are we going to continue with the same strategy or are we are going to see some change in strategy there US.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. So UK private sector. to be the team has done on big job in defending. Some of the real-estate. In the previous quarter. And once we reach certain level of stabilization. In the middle of the year, we started to see more deals uptick and incrementally growing, right. And some of that is reflecting in the number of is unlikely I, The we still see that as. A growth area for FY greenfield but if I relatively compare back to some of the other areas of growth. For example, the weekend. Take care. Government. The Americas as a whole. All our Salesforce. And also in. We believe that build a bigger opportunities for site, when. We will grow in UK private sector, but it’s not necessarily in the topical for us. The. US strategy has undergone some tweaks and change. Particularly as it relates to the environment that we’re in and some of the customer, voice. That we are getting as we go deeper into some of our existing accounts.
There’s definitely more cost-savings and cost takeout opportunities and. making sure that our value proposition of modernizing clarifying, as well as. Transforming experiences and the customer. Daniel combined together with the cost optimization pitch. That we taking the business that would be one follow much more deeper focus on account mining. And similarly is doubling down on. In the US, in particular, where we see opportunities in providers, payers and fee line both in Oracle. And in the first and to some extent in the big data streams as well. So those would be the three columns. I think the cost, savings element for many, the value proposition. Would be one element that field update last few months.
Amit Chandra — HDFC Securities — Analyst
Okay sir, thanks.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions. All participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question. We would request you to rejoin the question queue. The next question is from the line of Ravi Naredi from Naredi Investments. Please go-ahead.
Ravi Naredi — Naredi Investments — Analyst
Thank you very much. To give me bit opportunities. So when we analyze the delta maintaining margin from employee cost and other expenses. How we did in current year, all these expenses in margin.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Okay, as we mentioned the margin, if you see EBITDA profile of the company is broadening 17.7% kind of range. So again the constant. Obviously, they did date cost increase pressure will always be there, but that’s how you manage between multiple operating levers enabled alluding into subcontractor mix which we spoke about, we have been talking about the inflation and early against the combination some cost to go, but there certainly levers pull out and thereafter is to maintain the margin within the range.
Ravi Naredi — Naredi Investments — Analyst
Okay, and order book backlog grew INR1,794 crores. Can you buy forget in US, UK and other territories?
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
We don’t give that, geography-wise breakup. But that’s for the full-company. And that’s the committed order which we have to be executed over next 12 months.
Ravi Naredi — Naredi Investments — Analyst
Okay, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of from monitoring Investment Partners. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Thank you. A couple of questions from my side, please. Firstly, it would be kind of just a ballpark number on the organic growth for the quarter and for the full-year. Because obviously, we’ve had some sort of M&A of Q1, Q2. And secondly, what should we be expecting on the debt side of things, do we repay or that we take on some more for further M&A. Those two questions from my side case.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
The best. Got it, got it. I’ll let Alan answer the debt and then come back to to the other. And for.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Sure, it’s the key the vitamin and sufficient cash flows I to take care of it no-no further plan to raise any debt unless we get into any inorganic activity. But as operating. Operating requirements, we don’t see. And continue to the charge debt liabilities certain debts which will give the charge over this year. Sir, in a certain part of the base which we took for the purpose of MST acquisition will get the over the period of next years.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Thanks, sir.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
And are you able to share a stock, because it seems like. The feedback is the voice was not fully clear.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Yeah, sure. I was asking about the organic growth for the company has achieved for the full-year and for the quarter, because obviously numbers are very strong, but for comparison like-for-like compared to previous quarter last year. I just want to understand what has the company done on an organic basis.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yes, you’re able to hear my voice. Okay, right, to the yes sometimes but and PSF in-between, it’s getting I’m clear.
Okay, yeah, I’m not sure why we are very close to the mic and then public. But let me, let me answer the question. So. Like I mentioned earlier, the and the Salesforce acquisition has delivered above. Plan and exceeded our expectations, both on revenue. As then as on order book. For the FY 20 timeframe. As you know it’s but each month of. Acquisition. In terms of. Reflected in the numbers that we’ve reported. In terms of Q4 in particular. Like I mentioned earlier, we seen historically for the last three-four years. That’s this particular quarter is a the floor quarter. With MST with the seasonality. So essentially. Our Q4 growth has come. From organic and it’s an apples-to-apples comparison as we look, before, so Going-forward into FY24, we believe that the order book and build momentum from the Salesforce business continues to be strong, and we will. See, good year-on-year growth on the sales of business in Q4, the quarter that just went by we it is an apples-to-apples and if there is. Significant part of it on benefits.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Thank you, what I meant was year-on-year, so obviously from a quarter sequential perspective is organic, but. I mean, relative to March 2022. March 2023 that is I’m trying to understand, seven, 7.5 percent. With the five and products important constant-currency. You know, how much of that would be organic. I guess excluding unless and Salesforce.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Yes. And then, Arun. [Technical Issues] Should we don’t give this information separately, but what I can confirm is in this quarter, it’s 5.3% predominantly driven by the organic. As Al mentioned, data seasonality in the this was business in this quarter. So you can count most of the growth has come from the organic business.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Okay, perfect. Thank you. Yeah, that’s it, thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we are reconnecting the management line request you all to please stay connected. Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently waiting the line for the management is reconnected. So let’s. Your line is in talk more. Please go-ahead with your question.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Hello. Yes, it’s hard to get it. Sir, please go-ahead. Hi, this is investor here. Congratulations, sir. Please use the handset mode. The voice is echoing, sir. Hi, this is Sachin Kasera congrats Hiral team after many quarter we have seen growth come back-in a strong manner. So credit. Very good set of numbers. Two-three questions from my side. First was you mentioned that this is the current momentum, we are quite confident on delivering a strong AirBar industry earning INR17 crores. So if you could just give us some more better insights as to what gives us the step of confidence and momentum that. This growth that we seen in this quarter, is it more sustainable.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Thanks, Sachin, as you know. There are various parts to our business. And in some ways. There’s some uniqueness in each region. Right. We. Really needed to make some fundamental changes in the underlying elements of our business. Which. Included, like I said, our ability to strengthen our capabilities, the ability to mine accounts better. So some of those underlying changes are starting to pay-off. Now there are two-three metrics that we look at from a leading indicators perspective, right. One is our pipeline. And. Our overall uptick in the level and the type of conversations that we’re having right. Pipeline is and the 12 months order backlog has definitely gone up. So that is one part of the conversation. One part of the data point. The second part is that in the areas that we’re good at, which include. Our Oracle Cloud business our Salesforce business, our UK public sector and digital engineering business.
We are continuing to diversify and see. Larger deals and opportunities. In some cases multi tower deals in the current. Context of Oracle in the context of Salesforce larger opportunities beyond what we’ve delivered in the past. And also some indications of. Mining those accounts better that we are present in. So this is the second second sort of leading indication that we’re looking at. And. The 3rd is we made some. Strong hires, not just at the leadership level that I mentioned earlier, but also as next level. And at an account level in some cases at domain level in some cases. So we believe that some of the capability investments, which we continue to need to make, but some of the capability investments we need to continue to strengthen the propositions, but some of those progress that we’ve made.
In addition to getting the right people well-position us better going-forward as well. So looking at pipeline. Our order backlog, our mining, our ability to mine. If you look at a greater than one million accounts. Two years back, we were about 25 or 30 accounts, now we have 60 accounts, right at 61 to be specific. Similarly, we want to continue to move-up the ladder on 3 million accounts 5 million accounts tell mineral accounts. And Middle-East and the uptick that we’ve seen. Continues to look strong, even going into FY24, so in addition to our largest, which is UK and US. The 3rd geography leg continues to continues to fire. So those are the principal things, Sachin, that that is giving us confidence.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Sure. Sir, second question was on the US market. So this quarter we have seen some.
Operator
Please use the handset mode. Sir, the audio going.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Second question was on the US business. So this quarter we have seen some pressure in margins. So one is it because of some investments that we have done some write-offs or is it pressure on pricing. If you could quantify.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Sachin see is predominantly because investment continues to be made in the geography because that the growth we want to see in Americas specifically, right? So as the growth comes back and these are into, we see the margins coming back to the normal level.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Sure, and have we now started to see our ability to in larger in the US business, because that is very critical for us to grow the US business and activity balance that we have target is four to eight quarters, which the mix between the US and on this business.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, so Sachin, we definitely have that as part of the strategy we have taken proactive propositions to a few of our clients. We have a seat at the table on few customers that we want to make sure that we try that well. Our strengths though will be in accounts which are between one billion to 10 billion companies, right, that’s the range that we believe our sweet spots and even in some cases 2 billion to 7 billion. Right. That’s where we feel that we can make the biggest impact. In some cases, the customers are actually breaking down there are overall strategy, sourcing strategy into smaller chunks.
Which in a way is beneficial to us. So we don’t want necessarily the entire IT real-estate. Right. For bidding because we may not be successful in those type of big. The success that we’re seeing on some of the leading indicators in our existing accounts, right. So we have seen 5 million deals, 7 million deals, we have some of those in the pipeline as well. But in terms of larger than 10 million deals, it’s an aspiration that we have in FY24 call. We are picking certain specific areas and industries where we can take that proposition to do like I mentioned healthcare in particular. And we’re trying it out with a few of our top existing accounts. But we want to show that and demonstrate that with the results.
So we will keep you and the team posted as we start having those wins in the US but conversations are definitely. Moving up the ladder. Our relationships are getting stronger in certain accounts. And we have now take that to the next level in terms of some of the cost takeout you.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
So fair to assume that in FY24 in the US market. The average deal size should be than FY23 and overall order intake or order win should be much better than FY23.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yeah.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Okay. One the bookkeeping question for Arun. I see the operations this year it has come down to INR100 crores versus INR270 crores last year. So is there some one-off impact and it looks quite low. So how do we see the cash-flow from operations, because this year. Almost seven crores it’s gone from the because of investments. And the net-debt has gone up quite a bit. We are still net cash but you’re making this cash outflows much rather. Cash-flow from operations. So if you could comment on that and how do we see FY24 for terms operations.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
So Sachin, very good observation. So, yes, this year we have seen some reduction in the cash from operations and kind of reflected in our DSO going up to 93 days. So there is an internal team, which we have created working very dedicated, we don’t see any risk into those numbers and you would have been 98 was last quarter, we have brought it down to 93 days there a continuous effort. So our endeavor is to operate. Free-cash flow-in the range of 75% to 80% is is the range we operate internally and we believe next year, we’ll come back to that range.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Okay, okay. And just one last question, when we see the minority interest is only INR2 lakhs. So that’s little confusing, because we still 10 minority case of sees. So a one-off. Again, in that because that looks like a very strong number for 10% minority has to retrofit that we have quality quarterly numbers.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Yeah, there are certain not in that particular set of business again as the company. You can see it’s an offsetting but between the entities which are subject to minority and. Doesn’t impact at the Group level.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Thank you and all the best.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Thank you. Sachin.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mihir Manohar from Carnelian Asset Management. Please go-ahead.
Mihir Manohar — Carnelian Asset Management — Analyst
Yeah, hi, thanks for giving the opportunity and congratulations on a great set of numbers. I mean look good buying back after some point in time. Lastly, wanted to understand on the government side of the business. I mean, you mentioned in terms of that has driven by this particular. And also you mentioned about the opportunities, which had revenue government side as people UK. I mean. I just wanted to better strengthening of US in sometimes percent plus kind of growth. So considering the opportunities which are there which is on includes proficient side it suspension side. I mean, do we see over-time. So have goes.
Operator
Manohar please use the handset mode, sir.
Mihir Manohar — Carnelian Asset Management — Analyst
Yeah, just audible.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, you audible carry on.
Mihir Manohar — Carnelian Asset Management — Analyst
Yes, sure.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Heard most of the questions, so please go-ahead yeah.
Mihir Manohar — Carnelian Asset Management — Analyst
Sure, so I mean, you mentioned about the untapped opportunity. So just like, wanted to understand recent growth rates sustain or how should we be there. I think government business kind of growth for a bit come of them have been back to question kind of under. So how should we see that part of the business that was my first question and second question was on the NHS side. I mean, you know that we need to, which are there. Having spoken of probability, should be a sign of these getting ramped-up for us. I mean you do or much of the preventative and one should consider all the you just drop-off this these.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
So let me start with the second question, Mihir. And let’s say it’s. In reality, we believe that there is. A higher probability, but we assume that the probability is very low. And again, we’ve taken a conscious call to be very conservative given what we’ve seen in the last nine months with NHS. So until we see one deal spend coming up. We’re going to take a conservative approach, but. I do believe that things will open up, right. During the year. There is different parts of the healthcare ecosystem. But then UK health and may not be in the same areas. But it might be a slightly tangential and surround areas that we might also see some potential growth.
Be growth levels that you’ve seen in terms of quarter-four did have help from both number of working days and currency, like I mentioned, so that level of growth quarter-on-quarter, will be difficult to sustain in the UK public sector. Having said that, like I mentioned earlier, in the three or four different areas. We do see opportunities. To further strengthen our presence both in some of the existing accounts and even diversify in a few other institution, so. It continues to be a key part of our. Our growth strategy and business going forward.
Mihir Manohar — Carnelian Asset Management — Analyst
Yeah, sure. Okay, that’s it from my side. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question. We would request you to rejoin the question queue.The next question is from the line of Darshit Vora from RoboCapital, please go-ahead.
Darshit Vora — RoboCapital — Analyst
Yeah, hello, am I audible.
Operator
Yes.
Darshit Vora — RoboCapital — Analyst
Yeah, hi, so thanks for taking my questions. I actually just needed ballpark view on the revenue going forward in the next two-three years, and also. I heard that you are wanting to bring EBITDA and PAT margins back to previous levels. But could you specify some timeframe, say, probably, how many years it will take to. Come back to those levels. Thank you.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
So that shift. I think. We have a three to four-year view in terms of how we are looking at the business. As part of. The strategic priorities that we had laid out. FY23 has been challenging. In a couple of quarters prior to this. But we feel we’re very pleased with the quarter for results and momentum. So-so we feel FY24 will be a stronger year. And as we look at the overall opportunity in front of us. In terms of the sectors and the regions that we operate in.
We continue to believe. That we will be at industry-leading or a few percentage points above industry in terms of year-on year growth. Right. Our argmins and operating EBITDA in particular isn’t that range that we feel comfortable right now. There’s always going to be some room for improving which we would like to. Reinvest back-in the business. And then demonstrate consistent quarter-on-quarter as well as year-on year growth for a few quarters before we try and improve our operating EBITDA to 19%, 20% containers, but right now, the 18% range. It’s where we feel comfortable.
Darshit Vora — RoboCapital — Analyst
Okay, all right, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratap Maliwal from Mount Intra Finance, please go ahead.
Pratap Maliwal — Mount Intra Finance Private Limited — Analyst
Hello can you hear me?
Operator
Yes.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yes, yes.
Pratap Maliwal — Mount Intra Finance Private Limited — Analyst
Yeah, hi, thanks for taking my questions. I think most questions have been answered, but. I think last quarter you called out that is been from greater than 5 million brand. A couple of them are maybe in the pipeline for Q4. So is there any update here. Have we won any of those deals. Any traction on that front?
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, actually we’ve two of them, one in America Oracle deal. Which had longer-cycle than we expected. But the manufacturing company that has nothing to earlier. Interestingly in both those deals. If you recall in Investor Day, roughly about a year back. Last year, many of you attended in-person. We had showcased our investment in non-linear platforms and non-linear solutions. It was part of a medium to a longer-term strategy where we believe that architecting certain platforms and solutions that can give non-linear growth will be a key part going forward. So that’s ew are pleased to sort of update that both these deals.
One in utilities company in Australia and second manufacturing company in US. Had this non-linear component in fact. We have another solution called workforce scheduler. Which is popular in the healthcare space, which is also gaining traction. So there’s another deal, which we had deferred to, which is what you’re referring to. In terms of. In terms of greater than 5 million. It is the health-care customer. So that is something that we are expecting to close-in the next few weeks. So, yeah. I mean the good news is that we’ve not. Lost any of the ones that we referred to these cycles are definitely taking longer. And out-of-the three, we actually have run two and are expecting to then the next one in the next few weeks.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from the line of Sameer Dasani from ICICI Prudential AMC. Please go-ahead.
Sameer Dasani — ICICI Prudential AMC — Analyst
Hey, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a great set of numbers. I think just wanted to understand utilization, specifically, so and this number, we have seen a very good improvement now. Now, how should we think about this number, is there some scope for improvement in how should we understand this in the context of margin improvements, with 17%, 19% is the range, if I’m not wrong net just spoken about size there is that, are there other levers to at least for the higher than that [Indecipherable] Thanks.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Sameer. Yes, basically room for improvement in utilization and we are working towards that. As we mentioned earlier, as there will be gradual improvement and that’s what has been reflected in last two quarters, there will be further improvement down the road as well in terms of margin improvement. Yes, utilization is not only deliver their subcontractors conversion and other operating EBITDA as well, which we are working on. However, at the same time, we need to keep investing back into the business for the purpose of growth right, including capabilities, getting into details in other channels that the same time.
So our endeavor is to maintain the margin. And on the similar range in the short-term and as mentioned, like in the mid to long term. Our endeavor will be to further keep improving it and come back to the old levels.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Yeah, and Sami. The only thing I would add is. We did make a tough call. In the middle of the year to continue to on-board freshers. Into the system when some of our competition. Stop that or reduce that we actually did not do that. So you saw a hit in the utilization in the previous couple of quarters now with disciplined execution, and moving many of them into billable roles, which we would continue to do. We are seeing some of the benefits of that both in terms of utilization, as well as in terms of revenue growth. So it was a tough call that we had made in the middle of the year, but it is paying-off right now.
So, fresher intake and making sure that we run the internships and training programs. Is an important part of our strategy. Right, so that we can improve the overall. Do more offshoring, as well as as deals become little bit more managed services in terms of our business mix. That will also help us going forward.
Sameer Dasani — ICICI Prudential AMC — Analyst
The second thing. Thanks, of this. And second, when you look at industry growth, what is the bank, what is your benchmark. In terms of industry growth is it top and layers of the delta is what is the benchmark? When you say. Industry growth plus. A percentage point is never in the year. Thanks.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, so there are the third one and the larger Indian IT services players. Which all of you know. The Big seven or eight players, and then there are Mid-Cap and small-cap combination of. We had a 10 to 15 players that we typically benchmark again. Right. What you’ve seen. With various channel. Reports and some of you are the experts in this. Is that typically. In the range of 7% to 9%. It’s what we’ve been hearing for some of the larger industry players. With the Mid-Cap. And the smaller players doing slightly better than that in terms of the range of industry growth. So that’s what we’re benchmarking against as a baseline, and we aspire to do more than that in terms of the industry, given our size is on the smaller side of the Mid-Cap and small-cap.
[Speech Overlap] Basis while, one thing that right. There is. Still continued uncertainty in the market and the environment and. We have seen some of the results that have been announced. And obviously, we’ll wait-and-see how some of the other competitors do. But we feel comfortable that the investments that we’ve made in the business, the leadership that we brought in on-board in the last a few months. Position us well right for that industry-leading. Yes, sorry, Derek.
Sameer Dasani — ICICI Prudential AMC — Analyst
The combination of Tier-one plus mid, small players, because there’s Mr.[Phonetics] I just. Alright, thanks. Thanks, that’s it from my side. All the best deal and on admissions again on the great set of numbers.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of the Vikas Vijay from health tech services. please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
One thing. I want to understand. This is the ordinary bookkeeping. Thanks. Our credit card slightly bigger. Mr degree by deal was extremely carloads or number is and then specific reason [Technical Issues] from Quantum to contingent in green beans, slide.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Again, is the timely payments of the creditors, which is the nature of it and also sometimes what happens is you get into longer-term engagements and the timing of it could relate to closer to March and the payments are not and you don’t, you made the payment as it becomes in June. Could be them, it’s again business, as this will we don’t see any significant reason as such, unless the timing of certain contracts which you would have entered with the vendors. Maybe different between last time, current year.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
But what is the component is there is a what is the nature of the because of business is there.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
It’s, again, as this will you are doing a lot of procurement of CapEx items into the laptop. It could be IT software switch, you buy for our employees ES 6,000 kind of the in the range of 6,005, right. So we have to make multiple procurements, there are certainties. They are rentals. So on and so for.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Yeah, I mean anytime the commissions or professionals. And this [Technical Issues].
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
There would be subcontractors where you’d be outsourcing in certain part of services, the individual subcontractors, they will become part of it. Just any thoughts, you’re not including any, it’s predominantly the third-party there would be certain accounting-related disclosure to be included in the trade payables predominant is third-party.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Then because our [Technical Issues] I think. Lastly, as some are knocked out of.
Operator
Mr. Vijay mark[Phonetics] and the audio is breaking.
I don’t one of the[Technical Issues].
Your audio is breaking. Please repeat your question.
Unidentified Participant — — Analyst
Hello. But whatever.[Technical Issues] Yes. Yeah,, three as compared. breaking.
Arun Agarwal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Sorry, they are not able to hear you.
Operator
Sorry, Mr. Vijay regard[Phonetics] the audio is breaking from your line. And that is our response from the line. As there are no further questions. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Hiral Chandrana — Global Chief Executive Officer
All right. I think as always. We highly value the interaction and the question. Like I mentioned FY23 was challenging. But we are very pleased to-end with a strong note and solid in-quarter execution of Q4. That is reflected in our results. The changes and the investments that we’ve made in the last year. Has set a good foundation for us to. Develop confidence in the outlook going forward. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the entire Mastek team who we call Mastek. For the commitments and continued focus on the customer. The investors and analysts joining the call today as well as the interactions that we have had to the year has helped a lot. We value your feedback and support and trust in Mastek.
We will continue to keep you posted on the progress. On our strategic priorities and looking forward to an exciting FY24, so with that, thank you once again and good evening.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]