Mankind Pharma Limited (NSE: MANKIND) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 21, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal — HEAD INVESTOR RELATIONS
Rajeev Juneja — Vice Chairman & Managing Director
Sheetal Arora — Chief Executive Officer & Whole Time Director
Mr. Arjun Juneja
Dr. Sanjay Koul — Chief Marketing Officer
Mr. Sudipta Samar Roy — Senior President – Sales & Marketing
Mr. Ashutosh Dhawan — Group Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Lionel Tushar Manudhani — Analyst
Kunal Tamesha — Analyst
Rahul Giovani — Analyst
Neha Manpuria — Analyst
Chintan seat — Analyst
Siddharth Negandi — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, you have been connected for mankind Pharma limited Conference call, please stay connected. The call will begin at 6:15. Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to The Mankind Pharma Ltd. Q4NFY 25 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhishek Agarwal, Head Investor and Head Investor Relations and AVB Strategies of Mankind Pharma. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal — HEAD INVESTOR RELATIONS
Good evening. A very warm welcome to our fourth quarter and full year FY25 earnings call. Firstly, apologies for delayed start on the call Today we have Mr. Rajiv Chuneja, our Vice Chairman and Managing Director. Mr. Sheetal Arora, Chief Executive Officer and Whole Time Director. Mr. Arjun Choneja, Chief of Operating Officer. Mr. Sudipto Roy, Senior President Sales and Marketing. Mr. Ashutosh Dhawan, Group CFO Mr. Prakash Agrawal, President Strategy. We will begin Today’s call with Mr. Rajiv Juneja who will provide an overview of our performance for the quarter gone by. Followed by Mr. Sheetal Aroras providing an in depth insight for business performance and outlook.
Mr. Ashutosh Dhawan will then share the financial highlights after which we’ll open the session for our questions. Please note, today’s discussion includes certain forward looking statements reflecting management expectations of future performance of the company and these estimates involve several risks and uncertainties and actual results may vary. Mankind does not undertake any obligation to publicly update any forward looking statement whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise. For a detailed disclaimer, please refer to our investor presentation uploaded on our website. Now I’ll hand it over to Rajiv sir for his comments.
Rajeev Juneja — Vice Chairman & Managing Director
Thank you Abhishek with me and welcome to our quarter four and year 25 earning call. As we celebrate 30 years of operations we look back on our purpose driven journey that has redefined high quality accessible class.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal — HEAD INVESTOR RELATIONS
Sorry to interrupt you sir. Sorry to interrupt. Can you please like shift the mic towards yourself?
Rajeev Juneja — Vice Chairman & Managing Director
Okay. Thank you Abhishek. A very good evening and welcome to our Quarter 4 and Year 25 earning call. As we celebrate 30 years of operations we look back on our purpose driven journey that has redefined high quality health care accessible across Bharat at affordable prices. Exceptionally in the region that have long remained underserved. Over the years Mankind has consistently expanded its presence and leadership with a strong foundation in mass markets, acute and semicronic therapies, specialty chronic and consumer healthcare segments. Today we are honored to be recognized as folks 4th largest pharmaceutical company in India by value and the 2nd largest by volume in IPM.
This achievement underscores the impact we have created and the trust we have earned over the years. Our recent acquisition of BSE Markway significant step forward enhancing our presence in super specialty segments. Falling back acquisition we have undertaken strategic initiatives including the integration of BSV’s prescription business into mankind’s platform for long term sustainable growth. This has been a transformative year at mankind with several initiatives focused on enhancing doctors engagement, the digitizing of operations, workforce upskills and optimizing policies and processes for next leg of growth across therapies. Moving ahead it is our quarterly performance. In quarter four 25 our revenue increased to 3079 crore registering a growth of 27% year on year and adjusted EBITDA margin of 23.1%.
For year 25 our revenue increased by 19% year on year with the adjusted EBITDA margin of around 26%. In quarter 425 our revenue from domestic business grew by 18% year on year majorly driven by chronic outperformance and consolidation of BSE business. A chronic share excluding BSE increased to 39.2% in quarter four 25 as compared to 37.5% in quarter four last year driven by an outperformance of 1.3 times 2 IPM chronic growth further, our recent launch of EMPA Neclosil antidiabetes witnessed strong traction gaining more than 8% volume market share in March 25 and ranked among top three new launches.
Mankind’s PCPM has also increased to 6.8 lakh rupees in this year 25 from 6.5 last year. As far as OTC is concerned, this year has marked a progressive shift in consumer healthcare business as the benefits of our prior strategic initiatives begin to maximize from second quarter onwards driving strong growth, showcasing the strength of our brands and our agile execution. In quarter four 25 consumer healthcare revenue stood at 178 crore rupees growing at 14% year on year. Revenue for 25 also increased by 15% to 809 crore rupees. We achieved a strong 77% year on year growth in modern trade and e commerce channels further enhancing market share of our key brands.
Our recently launched products have also witnessed robust growth across brands including Nemo lit over news. Even our Manforce Epic Thin Axe Condom gained strong traction in its first year of launch. As part of our continued innovation in R and D, we have made notable strides in our R and D efforts with our new NCE molecule GPR119 targeting obesity, diabetes and metabolic disorders have advanced to phase 2 clinical trials. In parallel we are actively exploring strategic partnerships for GLP1 that would enable us to launch the product post patent expiry which is anticipated next year. The year gone by we have laid a strong foundation to deliver long term sustainable growth led by our four key pillars.
Number one Steady base business second Fast growing specialty chronic third High potential OTC business and fourth is high entry barrier super specialty portfolio of bse. I would now like to invite Sheetal to share further insights into our business performance.
Sheetal Arora — Chief Executive Officer & Whole Time Director
Hello everyone, A very good evening to all. We truly appreciate your presence as we share our quarter four and financial year 25 performance. With dedicated focus and consistent performance we have emerged as a leading player in the Indian pharmaceutical market ranked number one in description for eight consecutive years. Today our prescription shares stand at 15.5% with 84.1% prescriber penetration, a reflection of the long standing trust and credibility we have built within the medical community. While our growth has largely been organic in recent years we have strategically pursued select inorganic opportunities to address identified white spaces particularly in the specialty chronic segment.
Through In Life Science partnership with Global Pharma leaders, we have introduced niche and complex products like Naphtha, Nobgla, Symbicot and Crenglo boosting our offerings in the specialty chronic categories. We have further deepened our facility presence through acquisitions such as Panacea’s Oncology and transplant business and select brands like Combihel and dapi. Additionally, our recent acquisition of DSV has resulted in a rise in our overall value market share in IPM to 4.8% and our volume share to 6%. This acquisition has also firmly positioned us as leaders in the gynecology segment with a 10.54% market share. A women’s health portfolio presents new avenue for growth allowing us to expand across both established and emerging markets.
We are confident in leveraging these opportunities to establish ourselves as the most trusted brand in women’s health. Let us now move to a summary of our business performance. If I talk about domestic business in quarter four of financial year 25 our domestic revenue increased 18% year on year driven by strong momentum in chronic therapies and contribution from the BSE portfolio. Our organic growth for the quarter was 10% year on year. For the full year financial year 25 domestic revenue crossed the 10,000 crore milestone reaching 10,675 crore a 13% year on year growth. Our organic growth for the year is 9%.
During the year the number of brand families crossing the 50 crore revenue mark increased from 43 to 49 with notable addition including Butaplane, Histafree and three brands from BSP. Our presence in metro and tier 1 cities grew from 53% to 56% in the financial year 25. Chronic therapy growth stood at 11% compared to 8.1% growth in IT and chronic and outperformance of 1.3 times in quarter 4 financial year 25. This growth was led by significant gains of 15.1% in cardiac and 9.4% in NT diabetes segment reflecting consistent outperformance of 1.5x and 1.3x respectively compared to the IPM.
We have also expanded our DMF grade portfolio to over four to 50 products with a focus on the chronic segment. Now talking about the international business, Revenue from the international business doubled to 535 crore in quarter four financial year 25 up from 267 crore in quarter four financial year 24. Organic growth in international market was in the low single digits during the quarter for the full year financial year 25 international revenue grew 88% to 1532 crore with organic growth of 37% year on year. This was supported by combination of base business momentum and one off opportunities in the US for mankind and the successful integration of bsp.
Looking ahead, we expect our domestic revenue growth to outperform IPM by around 1.2 times in financial year conditions. We anticipate an increase in R and D investment to 2.5% to 3% of revenue in financial year 26, up from 2.1% in financial year 25. Accordingly, we expect EBITDA margin to be in the range of 25 to 26% in financial year 26. Our 30 year journey has been nothing short of cash negative, marked by challenges, resilience and progress. Yet at mankind we see this not as a destination but a stepping stone to even a greater milestone. With the commitment of our team and the customer centric approach at the core.
We are determined to keep evolving, creating. Value and improving life every step of the day. Now I invite Ashikoji to provide a. Detailed insight into the financial position. Thank you.
Mr. Arjun Juneja
Thanks. A very warm welcome to everyone joining us for our Q4FY25 performance discussion. Before we proceed with the financial performance, I would like to Highlight that these Q4 FY25 financials are the first full quarter of BSV results and FY25 includes 160 days of BSE financial performance as as committed we have monetized on Encore asset I.e. mananda Spa and resource private limit consideration of Rupees 562 crores on 11th of February 2025. Consequently, we have classified our financial performance into continuing and discontinued. Continued operations for this quarter and corresponding prior periods have also been reclassified to give a true and fair view of our continuing operations.
Accordingly, we will focus our discussion on performance of continuing operations and for the comprehensive view we have included discontinued operations, Please refer to slide 31 of our Q4FY25 earnings presentation. In quarter 4 FY25 our revenue from operations has increased by 27.1% year on year basis to Rupees 3079 crores as compared to Rupees 24.22crores in Q4FY24. This is driven by growth in our base business and consolidation of BSE results. For FY25 our revenue has grown by 19% year on year basis to rupees 12,207 crores. Reserves rupees 10,260 crores in FY24 during the year our gross margin have increased by 190 basis point to 71.6% from 69.7% in Q4 FY24.
This increase is driven by combination of sales price increase effect as well as favorable sales mix for the full year our gross margins have increased by 260 basis point to 71.4% as compared to 68.8% in FY24. This is majorly on account of sales price increase effect which has contributed 120 basis point and the balance 140 basis point is the combination of better sales mix as our CONIC contribution has increased by 150 basis points on year on year basis as well as certain operational efficiencies have also been achieved in our manufacturing processes. During the quarter our reported EBITDA has increased by 16.4% year on year to Rupees 686 crores with the margins of 22.3% as compared to Rupees 589 crores and a margin of 24.23% in Q4FY24.
Further, there has been some spillover of the integration cost related to BSV which amounts to rupees 25 crores and after adjusting the same our adjusted EBITDA margin is 23.1% in Q4FY25. This decline in adjusted EBITDA margin of 120 basis point year on year basis for the quarter was primarily due to increase our increase in our selling and other expenses pursuant to launch of certain brands like AMPA and relaunch of certain rx brands of BSC. For FY25 we have reported EBITDA of Rupees 3030 crores which is up by 19.8% year on year basis with the EBITDA margin of 24.8% as compared to 24.6% for financial year 2024.
However, if we adjust the EBITDA margin with non recurring expenses especially related to BSV transaction, our adjusted EBITDA margins for FY25 has increased to 25.9% as compared to 24.6% in FY24 which is at the higher end of our guidance of 25% to 26%. This increase in adjusted EBITDA margin by 130 basis point is due to increase in gross margin by 260 basis point and a part of it has been offset by increase in expenses. The RND expenses for the quarter was rupees 87 crores which is 2.8% of the sales and for the full year 2025 it is 2.2% of the sales which is in line with our guidance of 2 to 2.5%.
The finance cost for for Q4FY25 has decreased to Rupees 191 crores from Rupees 221 crores in Q3FY25 which is driven by a repayment of Rupees 3000 crores worth of commercial papers in January 2025. In Q4FY25 the depreciation and amortization expenses have increased to Rupees 231 crores as compared to Rupees 100 crores in Q4FY24. This includes 110 crores of amortization impact related to BSE assets and if we look at for the full year the depreciation and amortization expenses has increased to rupees 621 crores. Visa was rupees 378 crores in FY24 which is primarily due to amortization impact of rupees 194 crores on BSV assets.
The effective tax rate for Q4FY25 was at 16.8% as compared to 16.6% ETR in Q4FY24. However, the ETR for the full year FY25 is 20.3% as compared to 19.1% last year. The ETR for the current quarter is low because the because of the lower tax on sale of Mahananda Resource and Private Limited which is a long term capital gain tax. The ETR for the full year has increased on account of certain disallowances of expenses, primarily acquisition related as well as a higher ETR of BSV. Accordingly, we continue to maintain guidance of 21% to 22% for the next year.
The profit after tax for Q4FY25 decreased by 10% to rupees 429 crores on account of higher finance cost and depreciation cost pursuant to full quarter consolidation of BSE with diluted EPS of rupees 10.3 per share of rupees 1 paid the cash EPS which is the EPS adjusted for non cash items like depreciation and amortization was at rupees 15.9 for the full year FY25 PAT increased marginally by 3.4% to rupees 2007 crores from rupees 1941 crores. Last year the diluted EPS and cash EPS for FY25 were rupees 49.1 and rupees 64.4 respectively. The net operating working capital days for the quarter has decreased to 50 days as compared to for 52 days in Q3FY25.
However as compared to FY24 it has increased by 8 days to 50 days from 42 days in FY24. Further, in FY25 our cash flow generated from operations was at Rupees 2,413 crores which is on a year on year basis an increase of 12.1% from FY24. Our capex spend in FY25 increased to rupees 531 crores remaining at 4.3% of of the total revenue which is in line with our guidance of 4 to 5% of revenue. As a part of our financial prudent approach we continue to strengthen our balance sheet and have reduced our net debt to rupees 5784 crores as of 31st March 2025.
And this has been aided by monetization of non core assets. And this has resulted in improving our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio to 1.8x in FY25 which is in line with our guidance of less than 2x. With that we conclude our remarks and welcome any questions which you may have and I now hand over to.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal — HEAD INVESTOR RELATIONS
Yeah, so thank you Ashutoji. So now. We can start with your interviews. Sure sir.
Questions and Answers:
operator
We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touch. Don’t telephone if you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. I would like to remind the participants if you wish to ask any questions you may press star and 1. We have our first question from the line off. Kunal Tamesha from Acquire. Please go ahead.
Kunal Tamesha
Hi, good evening and thank you for the opportunity. One for Rajiv Ji on the BSE portfolio. Now that we have this portfolio for close to six months now, how has the performance been especially in Q4, let’s say on a year on year basis. If you look at the revenue for bsv, how has that progressed and. What. Is the outlook there? On the BSV business our domestic revenue growth guidance is 1.2 10. But specifically on the BSC portfolio, how does the outlook there and what is the synergies that we are expecting? Earlier we had guided for 5200 crores in a 12 to 24 months. So when should we start seeing that? And the integration cost, is it just for this quarter quarter or do we expect that to continue.
Rajeev Juneja
Thank you Gunal. I mean in the month of October we took this organization and naturally when you take such an organization it takes time to really settle in bringing the leadership, whatever changes one is supposed to bring. I mean that we have done it. And if you just look at the BSC results, BSP is a fantastic kind of organization. And we were just looking for an organization which has high entry level products that we have acquired. Going forward next year we expect the growth to be in the range of 18 to 20% of the growth we expect.
And what was next? Any other question was there from your side?
Kunal Tamesha
Yeah, so on the synergy side we had said that would be 50 to 100 crore in 12 to 24 months. So how are we tracking on that target and what should we expect in FY26?
Rajeev Juneja
On that we said that it would take, I mean the finance will take, I mean 12 to 18 months. 12 to 24 months. That is how this we have taken. When we acquired bsv. BSV came to us with TTK products, prescription grants which we have taken in mankind because for that Delhi Mankind is a appropriate company. On the second side, actual bse original BSE is super specialty, very high entry barrier products. That is over there. So whatever corrections we are supposed to make we have made. And whatever changes we wanted to bring in that T2K brand, that particular division we have done that optimization, commercial excellence, whatever changes we wanted to bring we just want to close everything in the month of March before the next year starts.
Now onwards things will be better in next 12 months time to 18 months time. You’ll see this energy Ramish. That will definitely happen.
Kunal Tamesha
If I can add just based some data points like for example what Rajiv said that you know the TDK RX business shifted to mankind operating model. So they were running the small business was done until three divisions. Now we have converted into one division. It had more than 600 people. So as on March 25th it had 440. And as we speak there’s another optimization that has happened and there’s also a lot of emphasis on portfolio optimization. So some tail brands, we have kept some focus brands. So this is as far as TTK. RX business is concerned.
On the wheel, specialty business and domestic side we have strengthened leadership. The India head has come from one of the top companies in the Indian pharma space. There the focus is largely on improving the operational efficiency. We have a lot of juice left in terms of improving Dr. Connectivity, institutional penetration, improving Mr. Productivity. So that process is on and we will soon see some recovery in that space.
Rajeev Juneja
In the month of April only, we are finding very good traction. This TTK brand, bsp, TTK brands, because certain brands are so iconic, the moment some kind of a connection was there with the customer doctors, immediately the response started coming. Also Fan and lastpear, these are seven brands. The Biscuit were there in the market and some kind of push was required and we gave that. And the first month, or I say a few, two, three months. Response is fantastic. And just to reflect on your last question.
Kunal Tamesha
Yes, yes, please go ahead, sir.
Rajeev Juneja
Your question was with regard to the integration cost. So Q3 was driven by the acquisition cost. Q4 has been integration cost basically to bring in effect the change of control which has taken place. And certain consultant costs which has been there all put together has been 25cr or so, which we have called out. And once we restart the legal integration process, then there will be certain regulatory costs which will be associated with that.
Kunal Tamesha
And the second question on the beta margin guidance of 25 to 26%, which seems more or less kind of, you know, flat. If I look at the adjusted ebitda margin of 125.9%. Right. So wouldn’t there be, let’s say BSE grows at 18, 20%. Our domestic business also grows at 1.2 times. Shouldn’t there be more operating leverage? There’ll be synergies on this because we already started optimizing the manpower cost at TTK or bhv.
Rajeev Juneja
Right.
Kunal Tamesha
So, yeah, what are the drags? One is, I think R D expense, which we are expecting at midpoint 50 basis point higher. But anything else that on the drag side that I’m missing.
Rajeev Juneja
We mentioned in the last call as well that in last couple of quarters we have done a lot of common reforms in mankind. Once upon a time, mankind was a kind of a company which was bottom up. Everything was bottom up, nothing was top down. So different divisions were working as per their best practices. There comes a time, after a few learnings, we brought a lot of new leadership at the head office level so that the policy should be uniform, all 28 divisions should work in one direction, There should be proper synergy, because in the absence of synergy, a lot of wastage happens.
So, and we mentioned in the last call as well, the kind of steps we have taken. Very less companies are there in India who can really have such a courage to take action. A lot of commercial excellence, lot of changes, a lot of improvements, lot of trainings, lot of replacements. Every set of things has been done in Last one year time. And we try to do everything before March last year, March. So that this year should start with flying colors. Flying colors in the sense that on one side actual results which we hope, which we expect in mankind would come slowly and gradually.
I mean after this first quarter we feel that whatever replacement we brought after changing a lot of people will start giving us right kind of synergy and right kind of response second quarter onwards. But as you know, whatever we are saying right now that at the end of the year whatever suggestions we have given will be meeting those. Yes, we have really worked hard to make mankind strong foundations. Because it really happens in every organization. Organization keeps growing and then comes a plateau. And if you are courageous enough to really see that what are the drags? Can you replace them? Can you choose them? There are two ways.
One way basically is what do it slowly and gradually. And the second basis, once you find out that something is wrong, something is not right, instead of doing it next year and next year and dividing that into many, many parts, we thought of doing everything in one go. And we feel that everything has been done last year. Now things will be better.
Kunal Tamesha
Sure, sir. Thank you. And all the best.
operator
Thank you. We have our next question from Lionel Tushar Manudhani from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Lionel Tushar Manudhani
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. At least to start with, if you could share BSV sales for the quarter domestic as well as exports.
Rajeev Juneja
So we have not called out specifically. I think Sheetalji gave, you know, the organic numbers. You can call out the same. What I can add is that mandate brand which is our key focus area. So the domestic mandate brands for the year has grown at 10% plus and international specialty managed brands have grown at 18% plus for the year. IVF as a category for the quarter is grown at 20% and for the year has grown at 26%. I think this is the broad color we are giving and the numbers you can calculate by just doing the organic numbers.
Lionel Tushar Manudhani
Got you. So secondly, while you know the chronic we are greatly positioned to grow 1.2 times. But given that we still have considerable portion of acute therapies as well. So you know how to think about the overall portfolio growth. So x bsv, the prescription business.
Rajeev Juneja
So. Chronic currently, I mean if you see continue to grow 1.2x to 1.3x which is largely the cardiac and the diabetes. Our core five focus area apart from cardiac and diabetes is gastro, gyne and anti infective. And we also hope to improve on the respiratory as well. As derms and vitamins.
Lionel Tushar Manudhani
So how to think on the growth front which we sum up you know across the therapies for the acute side.
Rajeev Juneja
The acute sides with the kind of restructuring initiatives that we have taken. So in the last two quarters we have seen some corrections and it is largely in the acute side which has also impacted some of the acute segments. And we expect the growth to start from Q2 as Rajiv ji mentioned.
Lionel Tushar Manudhani
And this is also lastly shared.
Rajeev Juneja
Sorry, just to add to what you.
Lionel Tushar Manudhani
Said, I think if you see when.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
Accu growth in quarter four we had to consider the regulatory impact of 1172 in acute portfolio. If you consider that we are at par with the market and going forward as we widely said that we are expecting that acute portfolio will also grow. At the same pace. What market is there and tronic as usual like we will be stronger in tronic and some of the portfolio. What is said strategically we are focusing on especially Gyne. You have seen that post BSD we have strengthened our Gyneco portfolio and there is a significant jump in market share overall and gastro of course it has been a major focus for us and. Going forward also it will be a. Major strength along with our cardio and.
Lionel Tushar Manudhani
Got you sir. Just one more if I may that the consumer health has recovered, you know considerably in FY25 with almost 15% growth. How to think about, you know whether the the sort of this is the kind of sustainable growth to think about in consumer healthcare or there is still, you know, some more steam left as far as growth is concerned in this sector.
Rajeev Juneja
We feel that this is not basically flash in the pan. This kind of a growth will always be there. We are very, very bullish about our consumer healthcare business and whatever branch opportunity we have launched in last couple of I’d say quarters are also getting good traction. We mentioned you the name of New Moonlight. We mentioned you that this news and our GASO fast is doing fantastic. Very very good. And where we were weak in the past, we were weak in E commerce, we were weak in modern trade even there, I mean a lot of good performance is happening.
We feel that this year, next year and going forward our consumer business is being conducted.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
Thank you. Thank you sir. That’s it from this.
operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Neha Manpuria from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Neha Manpuria
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. First question on bsp. While I understand we are not giving specific BSP numbers, I think at the time of the acquisition we had mentioned about the scope of margin expansion to 30% and higher on BSV over the next two years. Based on your what you’ve seen so far and the reforms that you have put out in bsv, the changes you’ve brought forward, is there still visibility on getting to improving margins within the BSV portfolio and specifically on BSV on international? I think if I were to calculate the numbers, there’s been moderation in international.
So if I were to think about the 18, 20% growth, how much of that would be domestic versus international given what’s happened in fiscal 25?
Rajeev Juneja
Yeah, thank you for your question, Neha. So international growth has been very strong, upwards of 20%. We are not giving specific numbers. So domestic has been a bit muted because of some of the corrective action we had to take. Especially in the TTK RX business which has seen a sharp drop which is from April onwards as Rajiv mentioned, the growth has started so we are positive on that. On the WX specialty also while mandate brands have grown but some impact is there on the tail brand. That’s why the growth is a bit muted. As far as margins grow, we remain very positive.
Current margins are in the region of 26 to 27% and we remain committed to improve the margin profile by 50 to 100 basis points every year. 30% probably will reach in the next, you know, by fiscal 30 for sure because it needs some R and D investments also as a, you know, portfolio and the pipeline there are a lot of, you know, very good opportunities. So that would require some investment. So that’s why there’ll be a Bridge from 26, 27 to 30. But we are very positive. Thank you.
Neha Manpuria
Understood. And the R D investment, if I were to think about it from a consolidated perspective, is the current quarter run rate something that I should build the increase upon? If you can give some guidance on what the total R D spend would be.
Rajeev Juneja
Yeah, so guidance is 2.5 to 3. You can take an average of the two.
Neha Manpuria
Okay, so okay, not too much. Got it in the core. You know, in the existing mankind domestic business, you know we mentioned that growth would come back from second quarter onwards. Is there any risk that you see, you know, in terms of the Mr. That you’ve added or that you’ve refreshed, not being able to ramp up, you know, is there any plan to again, you know, add more misses as we think about the next year to grow that, to deliver that higher than market growth? Just some color there.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
Neha Bin there’s always some kind of risk in everything you do actually. So we are talking about, we are increasing the medical apps and managers. What we have done in last couple of quarters, we have replaced medical reps, manager, field force, as you know, a good quantity of that. Wherever we found that inefficiencies were there, right side practices were not there and whatever I say not right things were there. We were very blunt and straightforward in making correction immediately as management has always been very, very fast in executing things. One way is that you look at your balance sheet, you look at your other things.
On the second side. We have always believed that if for inside things are right, foundation is strong, things will move very fast. In my own career I’ve seen in last couple of years, many, many years that sometimes in the greed of growth and profits, right culture evaporates. So we are not that kind of a company. Whatever actions we were supposed to take, we have taken those drastic actions. These were not simple actions, these were drastic actions. We have done that and done and dusted. And now when I say that these new medical rats and new managers have come, they will take some time, they have taken some time.
It’s not that everything has happened in March or everything happened in December. Everything happened gradually and we decided that by the end of March we’ll close down everything. And we have done that. So that’s one reason we are saying that maybe first quarter, quarter, I mean it will take onwards as we mentioned that whatever growth we have projected, whatever numbers we have given, that will be done. We are very sure about that.
Neha Manpuria
Understood. And so the Mr. Count still remains at about the 16,500 level that it was in the last quarter.
Rajeev Juneja
Absolutely.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
We are not increasing, I mean we are basically replaced, improved, trained, brought new energy.
Rajeev Juneja
The only small addition is, you know, adding on some experienced talent in, you know, being cluster heads. That’s handful though. So cluster heads, some of the national sales heads from outside. So when he said bottoms up in the past it’s, you know, given the scale and size, you need to do some top down strategy of hiring some, you know, extreme experienced people and upgrading your talent pool as per the size of the company. If you just say that in last year overall servicing of mankind have been done, I mean deep down cleaning have been done in mankind in every aspect. And we are very sure about it. Whatever in future will happen will happen very, very soon.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
And they are about 16,500 includes manager also. This is not.
Neha Manpuria
Yes, thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask any questions, you may press star and one anyone who wishes to ask A question you may press star and one we have a next question from the line of Chintan seat from Giri Capital. Please go ahead.
Chintan seat
Thank you for the opportunity. Hope I’m audible.
Rajeev Juneja
Yes.
Chintan seat
Yeah, thank you. So the first question is on the other topic you highlighted couple of things which.
Rajeev Juneja
Can you speak up?
Chintan seat
Is it audible now? Is it audible now? Is it clear now? Yeah, thanks. Sorry. So I was asking on the other opex which came up significantly higher around 26% of sales. You mentioned a couple of pointers around the, you know the investments on the new launches + R&D expense as well as the integration cost. How should one look at other optics going forward as a hundred basis that’s one and second is on the debt side we did mention that we are targeting some, you know, repayments and all. How should we look at FY26 repayments given that the cash flows continue to be very strong for us?
Rajeev Juneja
Sure. So. Let me start with the latter one with regard to the debt portion. So what we are targeting is that by end of FY26 we should have the EBITDA to debt ratio of close to 1.1 anywhere between 1 to 1.2x of the EBITDA. So that’s the guidance on which we are working. And as we highlighted earlier that by FY28 the target is to retire all the complete acquisition related debt and with regard to the other expenses. So this is in this quarter there has been a bulge on the other expenses and for the for the next year we have maintained the guidance of 25 to 26%.
So. So from there you can draw that that applies to all the expenses, not only to the other expenses.
Chintan seat
Okay, okay. And on the acute side if I come, you know, on the acute side we did some restructuring. We are now done and dusted with how should one look at Acute growing from here on given the base for this year has been a little bit softer due to the internal restructuring should we Expect we mentioned 1.2 times IPM is our target for growth next year specifically for acute. If you can highlight some what are we doing over there to guide the growth.
Rajeev Juneja
So hi Chintan, I think we have. Spoken to this spoken about this before. So Acute has been even soft in. Quarter four for most of the acute. Giants or acute heavy companies. We also owe no exceptions to this. But yes, there are certain impacts of regulatory phenomenon which was there in unwanted. 70 which I have spoken already. But as I said we have been focusing on gastro Gryne which has been our major forte in acute and Anti infective as well. And what we are expecting is we. Would be at par with acute if we talk about annual growth. So I think what sir has already. Spoken about, that lot of restructuring has happened from different parts and at different levels from field to ho. And those impacts should be visible in acute.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
Got it. Sorry. On exports, any guidance?
Rajeev Juneja
So for mankind exports we expecting single digits and from the BSV side we continue to maintain that, you know, the growth for the overall company BSV I think guidance given is 18 to 20%. International growth will be higher than 20%.
Chintan seat
So on the overall safe mix standpoint, so export will be less than 15% of the overall sales in the next year. So 85% plus will be domestic export will be 15% less than 15%.
Rajeev Juneja
Got it. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one, we have our next question from the line of Rahul Giovani from iifl. Please go ahead.
Rahul Giovani
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. Sir, just a clarification on this 1.2. Times the IPM growth that you mean for the prescription business excluding the consumer healthcare portfolio?
Rajeev Juneja
Yes. Correct. Yes. Okay.
Rahul Giovani
And this growth bounce back which you. Are expecting from quarter two. So are you seeing fundamentally things improving. In the acute segment or this growth bounce back from 2Q would largely be a function of the fact that the restructuring of a mass market business would. Be in the base quarter of last year and that restructuring in the base. Would then help us to drive improved.
Rajeev Juneja
Growth from 2 Q. Rahul, just giving some color on the last year performance. This is fiscal 25. If you see quarter four we have grown 10% in the domestic business without OTC which is already 1.2 to 1.3x the secondary growth by IQR. So and for the full year we have grown at 9% primary versus IQR growth of 8, 8 and a half. So we are already outperforming. And what we are saying is from Q2 the growth will be even higher. So 1.2x. I mean if the market is growing at you know, 10% we expecting growth to grow, our growth to be around 12% plus.
So that should not be a tall task, right? Especially when we’ve taken so, so much of initiatives and this year also we have outperformed ipm. And what I think what Sudipta said was on the, you know, there is also if we add back some of the, you know, regulatory headwinds, there’s another 50bps that we need to add back. So the Year performance is already 1.2x and we expect that to continue at 1.2x.
Rahul Giovani
Okay, so the organic growth which you called out was for the perception business. Excluding the consumer portfolio. Thank you. Yes.
Rajeev Juneja
Okay.
Rahul Giovani
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask any questions, you may press star and 1. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press Star and one. Now we have our next question from the line of Siddharth Negandi from cwc. Please go ahead.
Siddharth Negandi
Hi. Thanks for the question. Thanks for the opportunity. On basis the revenue guidance on the domestic business, the exports business and the consumer healthcare business. Considering the consumer healthcare business is likely. To grow fastest. Will that be a. Drag on margin or are the EBITDA. Margins of the consumer healthcare business in line with the domestic business? And similarly on the gross margin, how do you see that playing out considering the consumer healthcare business is going to grow fastest?
Rajeev Juneja
So for the consumer business we have those EBITDA margins, they are part of the investor tax. So they are in high teens, close to 20% and overall company margin is in the range of 20%. So that’s the guidance we have given. So the consumer business margin currently is at a lower rate as compared to the company company average. But that is a matter of scale. Once the business gets scaled up, then definitely it is going to inch up to the company average in the near future.
Siddharth Negandi
The size of the business, this is around 7%. So it’s not contribute or significantly, you can say dilute the overall margins.
Rajeev Juneja
And moreover, as Utal G has highlighted, we are maintaining the same guidance 25 to 26% for the EBITDA margin on overall basis.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
The second question was on gross.
Rajeev Juneja
Yeah. That is also in proportion to the, to the, to the EBITDA margins for the consumer business.
Siddharth Negandi
Clear, sir.
Rajeev Juneja
Is comparable to the acute gross margin. You can say lower than the chronic but comparable to the acute margins.
Rajeev Juneja
Yeah, sir, on the acute piece, just want to understand, considering the impact that trade generic seem to be having, especially on the acute side, outside of the metros, what is our plan on launching our own trade generics or taking action to sort of prevent that growth of trade generics impacting our growth?
Siddharth Negandi
See, I’ll just. Trade generic is there in the business in last couple of years. It is not only in smaller cities or bigger cities, in natural everywhere trade generic is there. The impact is already there. I mean these kind of, these kind of challenges are always there. But please understand, whenever somebody buys a trade generic, the chemist gives him the medicine. Patient does not get that Medicine at economical price. It’s like I mean earlier people used to go to chemist without the petition prescription doctor used to give r medicines. Now no more. I mean if last just imagine hypothetically if trade yandric would not have been there the growth of this pharma market would have been more than 16, 17% the impact of trade diandrick whatever you see the growth it is keeping trade diandric in mind so that you wouldn’t trade jandric side if you look at the data it has slowed down the growth has come down.
The kind of growth it was having in the past, it is no more now because ultimately doctor’s prescription really matters.
Rajeev Juneja
And on the pipeline you mentioned about a clinical trial happening for foreign obesity drug in mankind. Any guidance on on further launches in. Mankind and separately in BSV?
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
No. So this is GPR119 you’re talking about anti OBC drug.
Rajeev Juneja
Yes, that you already mentioned about fact that it’s inter phase two trial but any other. Yeah.
Neha Manpuria
Any other notable inclusions in that pipeline.
Neha Manpuria
Both from a Earthw BSV and mankind site.
Rajeev Juneja
So in the investor deck if you go through we have given one BSE at a glance there we have given some color on the pipeline which is on the you know, biosimilar products as well as some of the you know, innovator products which is you know in the AMR space and anti thymocyte space.
Neha Manpuria
Got it. And on the any more drugs in the pipeline? Innovator drugs.
Rajeev Juneja
So this is what we can talk about at the moment GPR there could be couple but it would be very initial stages. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants if you wish to ask any question you may press start and one.
Rajeev Juneja
Yeah, I think we can call it off. I think the time is up so decide.
operator
As there are no further questions I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Mr. Abhishek Agarwal
Thank you. Thank you for for any further queries or clarification. Request you to please write to us on investor valuationankindpart. Thank you and have a nice day.
operator
Thank you on behalf of Mankind Pharma Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.