Mahanagar Gas Ltd (NSE: MGL) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Jul. 23, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Ashu Shinghal — Managing Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Sabri Hazarika — Analyst
Probal Sen — Analyst
Yash Nandwani — Analyst
Amit Murarka — Analyst
Maulik Patel — Analyst
Nitin Tiwari — Analyst
Sagar Kapadia — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Sat. Sat. Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Mahanagar Gas Limited Q1FY26 earnings conference call hosted by MK Global Financial Services Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touch tone phone. Please note that this call is being recorded with this. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sabri Hazarika. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Sabri Hazarika — Analyst
Yeah, thanks. On behalf of MK Global Financial Services I welcome you all to the Q1FY26 post earnings conference call of Mahanagar Gas Limited. We have with us the top management of the company led by Mr. Ashu Singhal, Managing Director, Mr. Sanjay Shende, Deputy Managing Director, Mr. Rajesh Patel, Chief Financial Officer and Mr. Rajesh Wagle, Senior Vice President Marketing. Today’s session would be a brief on the results followed by question and answer round. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today’s discussion may be forward looking in the nature and we believe that expectations contained in the statements are reasonable.
However, these statements involve a number of risks and uncertainties that may lead to different results. We urge you to consider that quarterly numbers are not a reflection of long term trends or indication of full year results. With that said, I will now hand over the call to management. Over to you sir.
Ashu Shinghal — Managing Director
A very good afternoon to you all and I welcome on behalf of MGR management to the earnings call of Mahanagar gas for the first quarter for the financial year 2526. I would like to thank you all for attending the call today. MGL continues to create CGD infrastructure across its business segments in the licensed area.
During this quarter, 16,348 domestic households are connected and thus we have established connectivity for nearly 2.85 million households. We have also laid 79.08 km of steel and PE pipeline taking the total length to over 7538.63 km. We have 385 stations as on 30 June. We also have added 84 industrial and commercial customers during this quarter. And Therefore as on 30 June we have 5161 industrial and commercial customers in total during this quarter there is an addition of 20,332 CNG vehicles. And now we have more than 1.1 million CNG vehicles registered in our geographies. With respect to Unison Enviro Private Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary.
The company has added four CNG stations during this quarter and with this it has 86 stations as on 30 June. The company has added 3,300 domestic households and have established connectivity for nearly 42,338 households and added one industrial customer during this quarter. Thus we have 63 industrial and commercial customers. As on 30 June. UEPL has laid 73.78 km of steel and PE pipeline taking the total length to 435.56 km. There was an addition of 3,939 CNG vehicles in UEPL area during this quarter and with this now UPL has nearly 57,537 CNG vehicles registered in its geographies as of 30 June.
Coming to MGL’s operation, overall average gas sales for Q1 for the current financial year compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year has increased to 4.229 mmhcmd from 3.858 which is an increase of 9.61% compared to Q1 of the current year to the corresponding Q1 of the previous year. Sales volume in case of CNG has increased to 2.981 from 2.772 mms which is an increase of 7.54%. Sales volume for the domestic PNG has increased to 0.569 from 0.547 mms cmd which is an increase of 3.88% in the case of industrial and commercial sales. Commercial sales volume has increased to 0.679 from 0.539 mmscmd which is an increase of 26.09%.
During this quarter we achieved overall average sales of 4.229 as again 4.194 mms cmd in the previous quarter which is an increase of 0.85%. The current quarter volume consists of CMG volume of 2.981, domestic volume of 0.569 while 0.679 MMFCMD of gas has been supplied to industrial and commercial segments. EBITDA from operations for the quarter is 485 crore as compared to previous quarter EBITDA of rupees 378 crore which is an increase of 28%. EBITDA excluding one time trade margin reversal is 373 crore and rupees 315 crore for the current quarter and Q4 of the previous year Respectively, Net profit after tax for the quarter is 324 crore as compared to previous quarter.
Net profit after tax of rupees 252crore which is an increase of 29%. Coming back to UEPL operations during the quarter, the company has achieved an overall average sales volume of 0.225 mmscmd as against 0.208 in the previous quarter which is an increase of 8.55%. Current quarter volume consists of CNG volume of 0.204 and PMG volume of 0.021 mscmd. Compared to the previous quarter, sales volume in case of CNG has increased to 0.204 from 0.189 mms cmd which is an increase of 7.94% for the quarter ended this 30th June. MGL has consolidated NTT has achieved total gas volumes sale of 4.455 mmscmd.
A scheme of amalgamation of UEPL with MGL was filed with NCLT in December 24th. The NCLT has approved a scheme of amalgamation and pronounced its final order on the 9th of July with 2-1-2024 as appointed date of amalgamation. The scheme will become effective upon filing of the certified copy of NCLT order with the RoC. Maharashtra MGL has entered into an MoU with BMC for setting up of a CBG plant in Mumbai during this quarter. The Government of Maharashtra has approved the leasing of land to MGL at Deolar Mumbai for setting this plant. With this I conclude and would now like to open the floor for questions.
Thank you very much for your patience.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press STAR and one on the Touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Pro Bill Sen from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Probal Sen
Thank you for the opportunity sir. Congrats on a strong set of numbers. Two questions. One was that in this quarter, what was the sort of APM net allocation that we saw excluding new well gas? What is the exact percentage that we got for our priority segments? Number one. Second question was this amalgamation scheme, now that it has been approved, you know when can we sort of tentatively expect the full consolidated numbers to be available or rather be reported by ngl? And third, if you can give us some Color on the capex for the next couple of years including on the CBG as well as on the battery venture and on our core business.
Those are my three questions. Thanks.
Ashu Shinghal
Thank you Prabhul. First question was with respect to APM APM this quarter domestic is 100%. As you are aware as far as CNG is concerned 37% of the total CNG volume were catered through APM Gas. Okay. Does that answer your first question?
Probal Sen
Yes, if I can have a small follow. How much was then the new well. Gas that you got in this quarter.
Ashu Shinghal
For CNG was roughly half a million.
Probal Sen
Understood? Right sir. Right sir. In the next couple of questions.
Ashu Shinghal
Yeah. With respect to uepl, you know after this pronouncement the signed copy will be received by us in maybe one or two days now. Okay. And within 30 days of that receipt of the copy the both these companies are supposed to file with ROC company company registrar within 30 days. And within that I think 78 days it should final order should come. Okay. So in our view everything should get over by 15th of August. And you will see quarter two as a single entity for MGL and UEPL. Okay.
Probal Sen
Understood.
Ashu Shinghal
Yeah. Coming to you know company level MGL core business CapEx. Along with UEPL we should be incurring anywhere in the range of 1100 to 1300 for next two years at least. Okay. Coming to IBC the first phase cost is roughly 850 crores. Odd of that roughly 350 crores will be contributed by MGL. 350 to 380 crores. Okay. That is the range for the 40% stake in that company.
Probal Sen
Okay.
Ashu Shinghal
And this should happen gradually. Maybe you know majority of that should at least the first phase is going to get completed by around June next year. April to June next year at least 50% or more will go in in the first phase. And maybe in the next six months balance will go. Okay. So we expect from here around you know 18 months time in a phase manner that outflow will happen. We already paid 3536 crore. So balance 300 or little more than 300 will be there in the next one one and a half years time.
Probal Sen
Okay? Right.
Ashu Shinghal
As far as CBG is concerned the overall project cost is in the range of 600 to 650 crores. Okay. This was an assessment. Sometimes back we may have to reassess the cost. But as far as investment by MGL is concerned since there is a JV partner and there is going to be funding through debt and equity Both equity from MGL side should be in the range of around 130 crores. Okay.
Probal Sen
Perfect. Sir, thank you so much. I’ll come back if I have more questions. Thank you so much and all the best.
Ashu Shinghal
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dalit Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks for taking my question, sir. Sir, let me continue with the global question. If you could provide the detailed breakup of a gas sourcing in MMSCMD unit from each source like apm, nwg, hphd, Henry Hubb and any other, we are taking it from the SPOT or igf. That would be really helpful. We have. You have already mentioned 0.5 MMS, CMD, NWG. Apart from that, if you could provide.
Ashu Shinghal
So roughly 1.69 was APM. That is domestic as well as CNG, both. Okay. Half a million is HPHT, little less than half a million is NWG. Okay. Henry Hub, we have contracts of around 1.45. But we consume little less because NWG was available. So we might have consumed this quarter around 1.15. Okay. And though we say we we bought Spot, but it was all HPHT through igx. Okay. Which was also again in the range of around 0.4.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So sir, despite of sharp decline in Henry Hub prices and the crude link prices during the Q1 Ver is the Q4 FY25, your cost of gas per unit has remained flat. Is it because of APM deallocation during the quarter or is there any reason?
Ashu Shinghal
The average APM received in the Q4 was around 47% against that APM received in this Q1 is around 37%. Okay. And that 10% reduction has been replaced by NWG and other gases. So more or less the increase in the cost due to reduction in APM and reduction in rates of other gases has compensated. And roughly cost of gas per molecule on a weighted average basis has remained same. Your observation is correct, sir.
Unidentified Participant
Our operating expenses per unit during the quarter was 6.6 rupees per ACM. So generally we remain in the range of 6.6.1, 6.2 except fourth quarter. So is there any higher expenses during the quarter which is one off kind of expenses and which lead to 6.6 rupees per LCM in this quarter there.
Ashu Shinghal
Is not much one off. But let’s say compared to last year, this year Q1 we have done little bit more on CSR. So you will see that little lesser in the subsequent quarters. Whereas last year the CSR Expenses were back ended slightly. So that is one. Other than that I don’t think any major expenses are booked. Maybe slight increases there compared to earlier quarters. Repair, maintenance and some amount of lease rent has increased on account of some new plots which are taken by us. And also there was some past period demand for some lease rent in the.
Range of few crores which is a one off item. One off item. Which is one off item.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, if you could share the total CNG vehicle additions during the quarter compared to the last quarter Q4FY25 that would be helpful. And lastly also if you could throw some lights on the seven member committee report Rawc when we can expect any timeline from your site.
Ashu Shinghal
The vehicle addition was around 20,300 in Q1 against Q4 of 27,000 addition last year. Q4 and coming to that Bombay High Court Committee it is, I mean more or less several meetings have taken place. So we are still waiting for some fine tuning of the draft recommendations and some more data is required. So we expect within few weeks the final recommendation from our side will be ready which we will be submitting to the court.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks a lot sir and best of luck.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Yash Nandwani from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yash Nandwani
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is on the slowdown in the CNG volume growth. We. We have seen about 10% growth or even higher in the last few quarters this quarter. It has little bit slowed down to 7 and a half percent. So is it just because of the early monsoon or if there any other reason?
Ashu Shinghal
Well, it’s very difficult to pinpoint exactly, you know, whatever reasons because we typically don’t have data at that level of granularity. But if you look at, you know, look at trends, our BST volumes have been going down and in Q1 the number of new vehicles sold is also down. Probably the reports, media reports say that the cost of new vehicles because of.
operator
Sorry to interrupt sir, but I think the voice is echoing.
Ashu Shinghal
Somebody has joined. Is still a coin.
operator
Yes sir.
Ashu Shinghal
Is this better?
operator
No sir.
Ashu Shinghal
Your voice is also echoing.
operator
Just a second sir, there’s some problem from there. Sir, can you speak once again.
Ashu Shinghal
Can you hear me?
Yash Nandwani
Yes sir, I can hear you sir, loud and clear.
Ashu Shinghal
No echo I hope. Okay, the second part was there has been a slowdown in new vehicle additions in this quarter primarily because of there has been a significant increase in the price of new cars. Typically we used to have about 15,000 odd cars, private vehicles and cabs which used to you know, come on to CNG every quarter that that has gone down by about 5,6000. So these are the two reasons early monsoons could have a impact on it.
operator
But sorry to interrupt sir, but the echoing is from the line of the participant. I request you to mute your line after asking the question.
Ashu Shinghal
Okay. Yeah now it is better apart from these, I mean we have not been able to really you know, pin down any very, very concrete reasons for you know, the slowdown, the ups and downs keep happening. As long as the, you know, trend is towards an increasing side it’s very difficult to, you know, ascribe reasons to and it may vary. Some quarters may see a better result and maybe some monsoon effect could be there because this year monsoon has arrived slightly earlier as compared to maybe last year and still we have got around 7.5% Q1 of last year versus Q1 of this year.
So yes you are right not 10% but at least growth numbers are there and we expect that going forward in next three quarters we will take some steps to ensure that some growth does happen.
Yash Nandwani
So my second question is based on continued continuing question on the gas allocation. Sir, what is the APM and NWG gas allocation currently for second quarter and how it is expected to be third quarter since it is expected that you will receive the allocation 2/4 in advance. Now.
Ashu Shinghal
That intimation you can mute your mic Yash because sometimes it is getting echoed. So the intubation although it is there mentioned six months in advance but some fine tune does happen 15 days or one month in advance. So as of now we have around 37% APM and around 16% new well gas. So we expect adjustment happening not to a very great extent because already last six months we have seen several adjustments which has happened. So we expect, we don’t expect much reduction as of now but we don’t know really because our experience in last seven, eight months has been that there has been lot of variation in allocation sometimes going up and down.
But please be rest assured that since the LNG volumes also we have marked with term contracts as well as natural gas is getting allocated, the crude is low so HPST gas is also coming on for sale. So we are well covered and we think going forward the trend is that LNG prices will be softened and therefore we expect to manage lower allocation of APM also. But just to make reiterate that APM allocation for domestic is 100% available and this trend is expected to continue like this for a long time because whatever gas is coming is giving first Priority is giving to domestic PNG cng.
The government believes that it can absorb a higher gas price and MGL as an entity has better margins as compared to some of our peers as well as we have CNG prices which are lower. So those levers are available with us and we can do some price adjustment depending on volume growth and our expectations on margins. I hope that answers your question.
Yash Nandwani
Yes sir. Thanks a lot. Thank you.
Ashu Shinghal
On the volumes bit, historically we have always given guidance on a long term CAGR kind of a basis and we have typically maintained that, you know, quarter on quarter or you know, it is not necessarily that target will be hit every quarter or something like that. These ups and downs are there but the volume guidance is always slightly longish term directional.
Yash Nandwani
And you know, as for past trend, also Q1 slightly remains, you know, lower maybe because of school vacations, lot of buses do not operate. That could be one of the reason.
Ashu Shinghal
And if you look at. Number of vehicles added in last Q1 more or less, it is in the Same range as 20,000 plus. Of course compared to Q1 it is lower. Yeah. I mean Q4 it is lower. Yeah. Move on to the next.
operator
The next question comes from the line of Amit Murarka from Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Amit Murarka
Yeah, hi, thanks for the opportunity. So on uepl, I think you had earlier mentioned that there will be some unabsorbed depreciation and tax losses which would be available once the merger is done. Could you quantify how much?
Ashu Shinghal
See, we won’t be able to give you the quantum but what I’m saying is, or what I have mentioned earlier also is today as an independent entity, whatever capital expenditure being done by UEPL does not get tax benefit because they have cumulative losses yet to be absorbed. Okay. But once it is a single entity, all the capital expenditure will become eligible for depreciation because as a single entity it’s a profit making entity and there will be some tax benefits on account of merger. Definitely. So these are the two aspects on which there will be tax benefits.
Okay, so it’s a mainly timing difference. Let’s say individual capex of UPL which would have got tax benefit after maybe two to three years since it is part of MGL now or it will be part of MGL now, it be faster.
Amit Murarka
Okay, Understood, Understood. Also like on the CapEx and network expansion, like what is the target of CNG station addition this year? And yeah, I had a follow up to that as well. But what is the target this year?
Ashu Shinghal
Last year we have added 66 stations 46, 46 and 36 and 30. Sorry, maybe around 40 from MGL and 26 from Unison. But this year we target around 80 stations. New stations to be added.
Amit Murarka
Sure. Also there’s a trend of declining throughput per station. Actually, if you see, obviously, I mean there’s time that just wanted to in that context, understand, like in your understanding, how much time does it take for rotation to fully mature and reach optimal levels of volume?
Ashu Shinghal
Look, typically a good chunk of these new stations are coming up in the daughter booster mode. Because in far flung areas of GA2 and GA3, our pipelines have not yet reached the typical throughput of a daughter booster station is much lower than the throughput of an online station. So if the ratio of DOTA boosters to online is higher, the overall throughput decreases. But whenever you open even a new DOTA booster station that reaches its plateau volumes pretty quickly in about two, three months. Okay, so the decline in throughput is. Largely you’re seeing because of the increase in ratio of data booster online.
Amit Murarka
Yes, yes, sure. I’ll come back.
Ashu Shinghal
Since we add number of stations like last year 66. So it takes some time for those geographies to actually people start taking vehicles or moving. Seeing the queuing problem also they start. It takes some time, as Rajesh mentioned, maybe few months it will take to come up to the earlier levels.
Amit Murarka
Got it. And lastly just you had also spoken about a scheme wherein with VST for filling of heading commercial vehicles there. So is that fully rolled out or you are in the process of doing that?
Ashu Shinghal
We are targeting 15 stations. Last month we were at two. About two months back we were at two. Now six more have got added. The remaining five, six I think will be added by the end of this month or August.
Amit Murarka
Sure. Thank you very much.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vartarajan from NT limited. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. On the mix of volume in zone one and zone two transportation. So if you have a number, please share.
Ashu Shinghal
See, as far as MGL is concerned, Zone 1 should be around 68 to 70%. And Zone 2 is around 30, 32%. And HPHT will be completely Zone 2. Sorry, HPHT will be completely Zone 2. No HPHT. Part of it is Zone 2. Maybe out of four contracts we have one contract in Zone 2. Rest of the contracts and. No, you are correct. I think hpst everything is zone two. Right? You’re right. All is from kgbc KG Basin Gas. Will be zone two. Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
My second question was on the capex. If you can give some kind of a breakdown to indicate how much is going where. For example you’re adding 80 outlets. So maybe like you know it broadly costs 3 crores or 4 crores per outlet. And then where is the vein effectively going? So how much of pipeline you are planning and what are the other expenses which you would be doing. And if that can be also broken up between Mumbai, GA1, 2 and 3. And other than that like any unison angle.
Ashu Shinghal
See at a company level I’ll give you the breakup mostly as you’re right. If I am putting 80 sessions somewhere in the range of. You know I am talking now uvpel as well as MGL both. It should be around 300 to 350 crores depending on other than equipment. If I am able to take either land on outright purchase basis or on long list basis. Okay. It can range between 300 to 350 crore. Okay. Then another 250300 crore will go mainly into steel trunk line. Majority of that will be in of course in UVPL area also.
And also in GA3 where we are still connecting putting up trunk line. Very small part could be in GA1 for maybe supply, security or looping of area etc. Some part of steel SIL will be there in GA2 as well. Okay. Because some of the municipalities we are laying trunk lines in GA2. The rest is all further branching out. Reaching out to customer or medium pressure lines post these steel trunk lines. So if you take 300350 CNG another 250300 is purely steel line and maybe balances medium pressure line, last mile connectivity connecting industrial, commercial customers etc.
Some part could be there for other capex like 50 to 100 crore. Okay. Which may include adding small offices in different region for CRM and ONM purposes. And some IT and other capex which could be in the range of 50 to 100 crore out of 1200 or 1300 crore capex.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks, that’s very useful. Thanks. I’ll come back in the Kim.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Maulik Patel from Aquirius. Please go ahead.
Maulik Patel
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just one thing. On that JV which you made for the sell side mentioned that the total investment from your side will be close to around 360 crore rupees. Right?
Ashu Shinghal
375 crore.
Maulik Patel
375 crore. And. And we will be holding around 40 45% stake. Correct.
Ashu Shinghal
4044 is current holding. But that is for a temporary period. Ultimately it will come to 40 will be hours and 60 will be IBC.
Maulik Patel
Okay. Okay. Okay. So you will not be doing just from an accounting perspective. You will just add the associated profit in your P and L. Right.
Ashu Shinghal
Whenever. It will be only profit pickup from that. Yeah, profit pickup from that now.
Maulik Patel
Okay, got it, got it. And second is on particularly that you mentioned that volume which after many, many quarters the volume growth on a yoy basis has come down to seven and a half percent. But has this, the current month of July has been trending in a similar line or it has been a relatively improved than what you had in a Q4 Q1.
Ashu Shinghal
Why numbers actually add. Just give me 5, 10 minutes, I’ll get back to you.
Maulik Patel
Sure. Thank you. That’s all. Thank you very much.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Nitin Tiwari from Philip Capital. Please go ahead.
Nitin Tiwari
Hi sir, Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. Just staying on the volume bit. So what’s our current guidance for volume growth for FY26 and 27 as a whole and also our guidance for our margins. And I also wanted to understand the margin perspective from the recent tariff reforms that PNGRV has modified which perhaps would lead to like you know, I mean the applicability of zone 1 tariff for CNGV. So how do we see that impacting our margins? And you can show some light on that.
Ashu Shinghal
Q1 volume has been slightly low as has been evident. But if you see Q1 volume overall of last financial year versus this financial year, it is still a 9.6% growth. So for this financial year, although we have said that nearing double digit or high single digit volume growth is expected which we expect again high single digit numbers should be there by the end of this financial year. Regarding that margins, although EBITDA per SEM for this quarter has been around 12, 12.6 but going forward last quarter has been 10 rupees. This 12.6 also includes some trade margin which is a single point entry.
So without that it is around 10 rupees. So we expect around 9 rupees or so, 9 and a half rupees or so by the year end the margins number regarding the tariff it will be around 60, 70 paisa per kg CNG impact. But we will see when it is implemented and what are the final numbers for both the zones and some of it if required we can pass on to the customer. Again it all will be depending on alternate fuel cost and over overall margins on our balance sheet.
Unidentified Speaker
Just to add to this, you know, as I said earlier, my current purchase mix is 68 to 70% in zone one. Okay. 32% is in zone two. Okay. Now the manner in which this PNGRB zone wise tariff is implemented though we don’t know the rate for all priority purchase it will be zone one rate. Correct. And if you look at MGL total volume out of you know this 85, 84% is priority volume. So there will be some increase. But the zone 2 tariff which you are paying maybe in the range of 32% or so should come.
You know 50% of that will again be falling in zone one. Because my 15% is the only volume which is in inc. Okay. So there will be some saving on account of zone to getting classified in Zone 1 because of the priority volume because of the rate increase there could be an impact.
Nitin Tiwari
Got it, sir. And so second question is around our LNG business. And also like you know you had indicated in our last meeting that there are two large stations being planned on the Mumbai forwarders. I suppose. So what is the status of those two stations?
Ashu Shinghal
These stations are being done through Mahanangar LNG Limited mlpl. And we have one station operating from MGL site. And one Aurangabad station is operating since last October. One more has become ready in Madhya Pradesh in a place called Sioli. And three more stations we are expecting this year to be added three or four. So one will be in Vivandi, one will be in JNPT and one will be in Amravasi. And one more we are exploring in Maharashtra. So by the year end we expect around in total MGL including maybe six or seven stations in Library.
Nitin Tiwari
And what is the status of two large CNG stations that you are planning?
Ashu Shinghal
Yeah, that is also underway. And there was some delay because of some permissions from some of the state authorities. But we have, we are expecting it to. We have put it on fast track. So in other seven, eight months we expect to commission one in seon, that is in Vardala and other one will be also commissioned in few months time. Seven, eight months you mentioned.
Nitin Tiwari
Understood. Thanks for asking my questions. I’ll get back.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Somaya from Evinder Sparks. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity sir. Hope I’m audible. So the first question is on the gas mix. So this 0.5 MSEmb is roughly around 15 16%. So is this the max that we can get or is it because our portfolio we already have HPHT and Henry Hub. So 15% is something that we have opted for.
Ashu Shinghal
Ideally I think any Reduction in APM should get replaced by NWG because it is basically reclassification of the gas produced from the same well unless there is a production going down at the well. Whatever is a cut in APM should get replaced by nwg. Okay, so there is no clear cut guidelines how much NWG will be available. So I’m not able to very confidently say how much it will be going forward because in the past few months you have seen the manner in which EPM cut and NWG replacement has happened. I don’t think any linkage is done with HPHT because HPHT we are independently bidding and getting the gas.
Ideally APM and NWG should be considered based on the production from the old fields. So at 16% whatever is the allocation, we have got it completely. It’s not because of the portfolio mix we have taken? No, I don’t think so. There is any dependence on that. Nubal Gas whatever is getting reclassified as from APM to Nueville Gas. Again Nival Gas is given on priority to CGD only. Today also APM plus Nueval gas I am getting around 2.3 overall 2.3 mm SCMD. 1.7 plus 0.6 correct. Correct. 0.5 2.5 2.2 I’m sorry 2.2.
Unidentified Participant
Marketing program that we do on the commercial vehicle side. So this 2.0 I think is supposed to. I mean where are we on that?
Ashu Shinghal
The marketing scheme was closed on 31 March Q1. We didn’t run the scheme. Q1 is typically a slow quarter for commercial vehicle sales, etc. But we plan to do it this. Year at an appropriate time. We’ll reinitiate the schemes. We are also exploring some bulk customers in case we get some bulk customers. We will do it on B2B type of A deal with customers to see that more fleet of heavy commercial vehicles are added. So we are looking at large fleet operators, transporters, etc. And trying to work out bulk deals with some of them. The previous question on CNG sales trends in July the volume is marginally higher than Q1. Not appreciably higher but marginally higher. Directionally it is more than the volume of Q1. This is just for the first couple of weeks of July for which data is available.
The best volume decline. If you could just quantify that on a Y O A basis, what would have been the impact? Last year around this time VST we were selling about 1,25,000 kgs per day. That is down to about 98,000 kgs per day.
Unidentified Participant
Understood sir. So one last question on the capex, so you did mention 1100 crores at a core business level. So including the equity investments so it’s roughly around 1300 crores of 100 1300-1350 per year including both the other investments. Yes, you are right because 1100 or 1200 is does not include the diversification or the new company investments. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Good evening and thank you very much. So if you were to look at the UAPL performance this quarter, can you just take us through the revenue EBITDA and pat? And how do you see the UBL volumes perform over FY26 27 based on the capex you’re doing and the growth in the infrastructure. EBITDA in the current quarter is around 16 crores. Okay. There is a marginal decrease compared to previous quarter which was around 17 crores in absolute value terms, right?
Ashu Shinghal
Yeah. And volumes presently they are 0.021 mmscmd. Sorry that is only for CNG and another for PNG is around 0.02. So roughly 0.225 mmscmd is the overall volume on an average quarterly average basis and we expect that growth should be in the range of 30% every year this year, maybe in next two, three years.
Unidentified Participant
Are they making profits after tax or you still losing money there?
Ashu Shinghal
No, it is making profit after tax. Last year it has made profit after tax of around 21 crore. That includes the interest cost which is actually an income for mgl also. Okay, so on the okay it is. Definitely a profit making. So in terms of the capex you are doing including upl you’re talking about 1100, 1200 crores.
Unidentified Participant
So if you look at a ballpark roce expectation, when do you think you’ll be able to achieve the normalized ROC on the incremental capex you know you’re doing in the next two years? Can we assume that will start happening by FY28 once and on? You know assets stabilize in your gas sourcing and the volume growth stabilizes or will it take say another three years? So when do you think the there will be visibility on the cash flows and the ROCE on the incremental capacity of them? I think it should take three to four years from here.
Ashu Shinghal
So one last thought now if you’re looking at the long term cash flows and the CapEx, when do you think we will achieve the growth CapEx and when would you move towards, you know, normalized maintenance capex and what would be the normalized maintenance capex to value the long term, you know, cash flows and value the firm on a DCF model because your capex you know leads to a back ended return.
Unidentified Participant
So you will possibly have a good idea in terms of when you think that you steady state. So can you give us some sense in terms of what will be the steady state capex and when you when do you think you’ll achieve that?
Ashu Shinghal
If you look at you know, existing MGL business maybe for you know, trunk line etc. Maybe it may take another three to four years, not beyond that and then whatever remains could be very marginal. This okay and even on account of CNG station required to cater to the population or you know making a scenario where you move in and move out of the session very fast it should not be more than four to five years putting up new stations and adding and they are also mainly in GA3 and GA2. Okay so our capex for NGL existing GS should taper down within 4 to 5 years and then only last mile connectivity for customers who get added.
Okay so if even if I am running at you know, 3 lakh connections per year and we are already reached out to almost 2.7 million households considering 4 million that also I think takes another 45 years max in my view. Okay. When it comes to UEPL I think the capex cycle should be for another 7 years at least 67 years minimum but that will be a smaller this maybe initially a few years 150 to 200 and then it should taper down to below 100 for next four or five years.
Unidentified Participant
So one last thought on. Yeah sorry please go ahead.
Ashu Shinghal
As far as if you see we don’t segregate on DCF this but PNG business should have a replacement capex little earlier. When I say little earlier around 15 to 18 years mainly the equipments I’m saying but rest of the capex it’s a pretty long minimum 25 years and beyond it is okay of course pairing the some of the assets which are above ground like say risers or meters etc. Which may need replacement again 15 to 18 years time so majority of capex lasts very long as per PNGRB at least I think 25 years is the authorization period beyond that it should last but we don’t have history in India Globally I think there are examples where 40 to 60 years also peel lines and steel lines in the range of 40 years should be there.
Unidentified Participant
That’s useful. So can you give us some color on the GA3 volumes this quarter? And what is the kind of growth you expect and what is the kind of capex required in GA3 the next one two years?
Unidentified Speaker
GA3 volumes presently are 0.22245 and current quarter GA3 volume. One moment. I think 0.34324, not 244324.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, and how do you see the growth then? FY2627.
Ashu Shinghal
FY2627. I think it should grow at at least 15 to 20%. Probably a bit more. Maybe around same as UEP 30% or so.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, and. And what is the capex required in GA3 specifically? And you know, also on the shifting from dota booster to online stations, when do you think that will happen?
Ashu Shinghal
The shifting from doctor Booster to online is a slightly long process because we have to lay long pipelines to reach all the places. But what we are also doing is we are adding three more Citygate stations. So one will be added in this month only to Sargarh and two more will be added in few months time. Maybe seven, eight, nine months or in a year’s time or so. So that will ease out our daughter. Booster stations will be gradually converted to online stations. But at the same time we are adding more stations every year in this geography.
So there will be definitely more DBs also will be coming on. And maybe in two, three years time the things will get normalized. Then it will be more mostly on online. And some will still be operating on DBs because everywhere we will not be able to lay the pipeline to make every station online.
Unidentified Participant
And is it possible to give a breakup of the capital?
operator
May I request you to join the queue for a follow up question? Thanks. Yeah, thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mr. Arya Patel. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Thank you. So for the opportunity, I just had one question. So what was the average realization for industrial and commercial customers in Q1 as well as the average realization in FY25 and quarter for FY25.
Ashu Shinghal
Industrial and commercial average realization without tax, you know, around 50 rupees. Okay. And it is slightly lower. Maybe around 5% lower linked to Brent compared to last quarter. The 50 rupees is the average for the last year. And this quarter it is slightly lower. 5% lower.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. Thank you sir. And what was Q4? Sorry?
Ashu Shinghal
Specifically for Q4 also was in the same range 50 rupees average realization which ranges some segment more than 60. Some segment near 50 or little less than 50. Mainly commercial LPG bottle linked segment is earning higher. And the ldofo for linked customers between 45 to 50 rupees range.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. Thank you sir.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sagar Kapadia from Prabhu Das Leeladhar. Please go ahead.
Sagar Kapadia
Hello. Hello. Can you hear me? Yeah.
operator
Yes sir. You’re audible.
Sagar Kapadia
Yeah. So recently we are reading news that MSRTC is going to procure more of this hybrid CNG LNG buses. So I wanted to know since we, you know, earlier we used to give figures how much conversions have been made from the MSRTC buses. And also I would like to know in our geographical area how many bus depots of MSRTC are there and what are the plans of mgl? How many, you know, CNG stations can be established in those bus depths.
Ashu Shinghal
Currently around 600 buses of MSRTC are running and they had added some more buses last few months. However there is some potential because as they are having a fleet of around 18,000 vessels. But that is all across Maharashtra and they are, I mean having both the options. They are also exploring LNG option and CNG options. So we are in touch with them. Some more MSRT stations we are adding gradually as of now maybe family are operating around 12 or so are operating right now. 10 or 12. And going forward some more will be getting going forward.
They will be informing us as regards which depots they’ll be deploying these buses. Mainly they’ll be in the Rigad district, GA3, a few in GA2. And we will upgrade or add infrastructure as required to fuel those buses.
Sagar Kapadia
Okay. So that can, you know, compensate for the lesser volume of the BST which is declined.
Ashu Shinghal
Yes, yes. To some extent, yes. But best we were operating around 3000 buses at one point of time. Now it has come down to 1800 buses. So yes, you are right. MSRTC will pick up. I mean compensate for some. But we are also in touch with bst. Let us see if something gets materialized there also.
Sagar Kapadia
Okay. So we said we are operating 600 the buses on CNG, right? That’s from the MSRP site currently.
Ashu Shinghal
Yeah. Okay. So that number can improve. You know, if they go for the option of CNG there will be a mix. I mean it’s not that only on CNG there will be a mix of both CNG LNG and diesel. Yeah.
Sagar Kapadia
Okay. So thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A request to all participants. Please limit your questions to one question per participant. The Next question comes from the line of Keshav from Kotak. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello, Good evening sir. Can you please give us GMI’s volume breakup and their yoy growth rate. Around 50% is from GA1 and around 0.3 was GA3 and balance is GA2 maybe around 45% or so. Total volume for this quarter is around 4.23. GA1 is 1.9. GA2 is 2 million and 0.33 is GA3. Can you also help us with yield. Rate of this one? So if you compare Q4 average FY24 there is slightly degrowth in GA1.
Ashu Shinghal
Okay. But GA2 have grown from 1.85 to 2 and GA3 has grown from 0.24 to 0.333.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you so much sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Hardik Solanki from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, my question is already answered. Thank you. There is one question by Mr. Ramesh regarding GA3 capex. GA3 capex planned for this year 2526 in the range of 200 crore.
operator
The next question comes from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Yeah, as a follow up to the questions. So if you look at your overall business now in terms of the gas sourcing and the price increase required, what is the additional price increase required to improve margins and when do you think we’ll be able to do that? And if you see gas prices remaining stable at these levels, do you see the operating leverage and volume growth helping you improve your EBITDA growth and earnings growth over the next few quarters?
Ashu Shinghal
So Ramesh, if I exclude the one time reversal of trade margin from both the quarters this quarter as well as the previous quarter my Q4 EBITDA was 8.35 per SCM and my Q1 this year EBITDA is 9.68 to be very precise. So actually there is a growth in EBITDA margin. Okay. And that also I am saying will improve because slightly Brent in the Q1 was slightly lower. So realization in industrial commercial compared to previous quarter or previous average was lower by 5 to 6%. We expect that if the Brent remains on an average better than Q1 then that will also add somewhat.
And gas cost I am seeing on the soft softer side. So right now I think on margin fund we did not do anything unless there is a some change in the input gas cost or any other factors like foreign exchange or allocation tariff also and tariff zone wise tariff. So as mentioned earlier also Mr. Ramesh that we are having, I mean good margin on EBITDA also. I mean earlier if you used to track our margins, they were in the range of seven rupees or so. Now we are in the range of 9.5 rupees. Secondly, we are still selling CNG at a lower price as compared to many of our peers. So therefore we have some margins available there also to pass on the price in case it is required. Also it depends how petrol diesel prices fare and what is the movement of Brent and the procurement of or the cost for LNG also.
So all this is a. I mean dynamic situation. So we keep a track on these parameters to take a decision on price hike or price reduction in cng. The other segments are more or less every month we do the price declaration.
Unidentified Participant
That’s useful. Sir, thanks a lot and wish you all the best. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. We’ll take this as a last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Sabri Hazarika
I would like to thank once again all the investors for closing faith on the Mahanagar gas and wish you all the best. Thank you so much for joining in. Thank you.
operator
Thank you on behalf of MK Global Financial Services limited That concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines. It.