Ksolves India Limited (NSE: KSOLVES) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Jul. 21, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Umang Soni — Chief Financial Officer
Unidentified Speaker
Ratan Kumar Srivastava — Chairman & Managing Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you all to the Q1 FY26 post earnings conference call of KSOLs India Limited today on the call from the management team, we have with us Mr. Ratan Srivastava, chairman and managing director, Mr. Umang Soni, chief financial officer and CA Darpa Nadir head, Business Transformation and Consulting. As a standard disclaimer, I would like to inform all of you that this call may contain forward looking statements which are subject to certain risk and uncertainties. Also a reminder that this call is being recorded. In terms of the structure of today’s call, Mr. Umang Soni will take you through the detailed financial performance followed by Darpan who will outline the business vision and strategic roadmap for the coming year. And in the Q and a session, Mr. Ratan Srivastava will be addressing your questions. With that, I now request Umang and Darpan to take us through the business and performance highlights for the quarter ended June 2025 over to the management team
Umang Soni — Chief Financial Officer
Good evening everyone and welcome. To KSOL’s Q1 FY26 earnings call. We are genuinely excited to share not just our numbers today, but the story behind them, our strategic choices and the incredible people who make our success possible. So starting with what matters the most. So next, this visible and only.
Unidentified Speaker
No, it’s. Can you change the site?
Umang Soni — Chief Financial Officer
Definitely. You need to go to the next slide.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes. Next. Yeah.
Umang Soni — Chief Financial Officer
Yes. So let me begin with which you are here to learn about. So our performance has been strong with revenue from operations for the quarter growing 19.3% year on year and reflects a double digit sequential quarter on quarter growth of 13%. Our OPM stood at 26.4% and PAT margin at 17.1% for the quarter.
And this 17.1% PAT margin and EBITDA so 26.4% EBITDA margin and technology services reflects key strengths, that is our pricing power that we are not competing solely on our cost, but we are delivering value that the clients are willing to pay premium rates for along with our financial management that indicates that our growth is a profitable growth.
And further, the board has declared interim dividend first interim dividend of rupees one per share. So thank you everyone for who believed in our vision. So and what does this margins reflect for our stakeholders? So for our shareholders, this operating profit margin and pet margin represent sustainable returns for our employees. It represents job security and growth opportunities for our clients. It represents a financially stable partner who will be here for the long term to support their digital transformation journeys.
Next. So this slide depicts our sequential quarter on quarter growth with EBITDA margin of by 16.3% and PAT margin up by 9.6%. Next slide. So this slide depicts our performance with the same quarter last year as you can see. So now coming to next slide which will like to be completely transparent about something that might concern some of you.
So our EBITDA margins for this quarter was 26.4% as compared to 38.06% same quarter of last year. But what we need you to understand that this wasn’t a decline in our operational excellence. This was a series of strategic investments we made in our future which we also discussed in last quarter’s earnings call as well. So let me share what these investments really mean and the real story behind them. So we invested 66 lakhs in ESOP expenses compared to last year same quarter. So we believe that our people come first. Then 1.24 crores that is spent on building our leadership and top level hirings because they bring the experience and they will take us to what exactly where we want to be in the next five years and the next 1.93 cr investment in events and market presence. So that’s a strategic investment we made for our brand recognition by attending at large industry events where our potential clients approach us and they finally understand what KSOLs do and how case halls do it differently. So if we exclude these investments, our adjusted EBITDA margin would grow up by 10.64% which is approximate around 37% identical to last year same quarter. So this investment’s position us for accelerated growth in the quarters ahead next. So this data of top five customers who shows trust in us contributing 42% of our revenue and top 10 contributing 58% and it’s the quality of partnership. You can see that we are now working with Fortune 500 companies and top 100 global banking brand and many other big high profile brands as well. So as I reflect on this quarter, we are filled with genuine optimism. We made investments that impacted our margins in the short term. But being in business long enough, we know that the best investments may often look costly in the short term, but brilliant in the hindsight. So thank you everyone for your trust, your patience with our strategic choices and your continued partnership in this journey. With this I will pass the call to Mr. Dapan to explain further.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. I hope I am audible loud and clear.
Umang Soni — Chief Financial Officer
Yes, yes.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you everyone. I think we started with a good thought around numbers and there is a defined story behind numbers, around what we are doing and how we are doing and what is the progress we have made, what is our vision which actually drives the whole thought around the organization. So I’ll take this opportunity, not a long thing, but I’ll take this opportunity to showcase how ksols is working here, what culture ksols has created till now and then what is the foresightedness which we are having for next quarters or.
Unidentified Speaker
Supposedly years. But before that it’s a good milestone which we are celebrating this quarter. The milestone of five successful years of listing. So I wanted this to be celebrated first before we start on any story or any thoughts. And that’s a core milestone or core effort which is driven by the team plus by the investors are here to support us and to trust on the thoughts which case also has been driving from last five years.
So thank you everyone. Thank you everyone for your continuous trust and unwavering support. We are, we have completed 20 quarters file five good years in the market and the market capitalization has also grown tremendously from last five years. That is a whooping 5780% rise. With this we still be total debt free company which is an achievement in these days for any organization. And we have given tremendous results. 10x of revenue, 50x of profit.
We have given tremendous results in last five years excluding one or two quarters up and down. We have been consistently driving or giving results around revenue, profit, growth, technology everywhere. So a big shout on the whole stakeholder team, the whole forum through which we are connected and delivering things for this specific milestone, this amazing milestone. Let me showcase some more things or some more strengths which we were able to create in last 13 years of innovating things or five years of this specific enlisting milestone.
The team which was actually somewhere around 100 plus has grown to 600 or somewhere around 550 plus in these five years. And coincidentally the good achievement for us is that 50% of that initial team is still with us. So that’s the culture, that’s the bond which we have created.
And you can understand any IT organization is actually more connected with the team and the skills which they possess because these are the core assets which we drive which we connect for any specific evolving technology or any specific service delivery which we are doing for the organization.
So we actually keep a proud moment for us as a team that we have been growing tremendously and enhancing the culture of the team. The profit I have mentioned has been actually connected with the team and the stakeholders which we are driving with now. A good thing or a thing for a thing as an achievement is that team is not directly getting connected with Mr. Ratan who is our CEO and founder. That team is actually creating leadership layers in the environment, in the ecosystem, in the ecosystem. That means that there is a.
Unidentified Speaker
Hierarchy which is getting created in the organization. Earlier what was happening, everyone was connected or directly linked with Mr. Ratan. And his initial conversations was with that team. Weekly or monthly supposedly. But now even the leaders are actually able to create their own team. There are multiple such examples which are available in the whole organization.
I’ll just take few names. Mr. Om Prakash, who is actually leading the Odoo team. He is actually delivering. He is actually taking up the position of Delivery Head ERP. He has been driving the team from last 13 years. He was the initial team member of this organization. He is now leading the whole team of Voodoo.
Whole practice of which is actually a helpful thing for the whole organization. And under his leadership now people are able to complete seven years, five years of time. That means it is not only connected with one person. It is not a one person show now. It is actually driven among multiple leaders.
Similarly, Mr. Anil who has been the four founders of this specific organization, who was the initial member of this specific organization is actually connected as a technical lead now and driving his own team for multiple specific areas. Similarly, Ms. KTI Sharma who has been delivering good around the business development has also been driving things.
And under her leadership there are multiple members who have completed five years of this nice day in the organizations. So that’s around the team area or that’s around the culture which we are bringing. We actually recently onboarded multiple people from outside organizations also to enhance this thought to accelerate the growth which are also now maintaining the multiple pillars of our organization.
Like supposedly. I’ll take example. Mr. Jerry whom we onboarded as VP Salesforce is now actually taking lead around the salesforce and giving up global exposure to the organization to the case also. Similarly, Mr. Nishant who joined us in the last year, he’s taking lead around AI. He is actually positioned as VPI and he’s taking lead around the artificial intelligence and gen evolving technologies which are coming up in the market.
Minister Asim who has joined us as Director of program and operations is giving exceptional support and specific standards. Setting specific standards in the organization to enhance the operations and to be very vigilant around the costs and supposedly the procedures which we were creating. People are coming from multiple experiences and are actually helping the case to grow around the organization organizational thought.
I myself is leading the specific area of business transformation and consulting. Initiating a new practice around the organization to lead more on RFPs and detailed deliberations. With this, it’s not only the employees or leaders.
Unidentified Speaker
Leaders whom we are connected with. The exposure is also going tremendously high. In last five years we have been able to move the ticket size from supposedly 10k dollar to now 600k dollar. That is not a one day or one year job. It’s a rigorous growth of 5 years or supposedly the initial 13 years which I am talking about through which we are now able to get an exposure of global services, multiple clients and organizations.Now we are able to send our people, we are able to connect with our clients globally also which actually gives a good position to us in negotiating, in communicating. Our team members are connected with our clients not through teams or Google Meet. They are connected face to face also on multiple occasions during the year.
That exposure is actually helping them to to connect with the client apart from formal discussions to informal thoughts. Also like it is not a black box how Europe is or how US is or how Dubai is now for our employees. We are very much connected with the thought. We are very much driven into the thought and we are able to deliver to their expectation there. The client size also grown tremendously. Initial client size, initial ticket size, initial exposure.
Everything has grown. Like I mentioned, 10k or supposedly a deal which was initially been discussed in one day or two day is being now taken up for multiple iterations, multiple deliberations and finally coming up on their own expectation. And the delivery cycle is also growing initially supposedly if you are closing out any specific delivery in one month or two months has now been into a ticket size of one year.
So that’s a consistent growth or consistent inflow which we are getting from these specific specific ticket details and supposedly ticket clients intentions. Now consider a thought. The technology is also evolving from last 13 years. It is not that we are actually coming up or going ahead with the same specific technology same.
That’s the beauty of KSource. We have been involving, we have been showcasing our expertise in multiple such technologies which actually initiated in this specific middle frame like suppose Legion, AI AI, Salesforce, udo, whatever it is you count, you mention the name and we have an expert for that specific thing.
That’s because we have always been evolving. We have actually created our own niche specific set to grow and to showcase our experience on the big platform. Now this actually is helping us to be on a front step or supposedly one step ahead of the organizations to showcase what we have been delivering.
And this is how we are creating our own intrinsic value or our own specific real value through all these factors. The expansion was also very much good. We actually expanded to multiple Indian cities in these five years setting up.
Unidentified Speaker
Up our offices in Indore and Pune and globally also. We were actually visible in US and Dubai for all the specific set of clients which were there. In this five years, we’ll say the global visibility has also increased. We have started participating in multiple events. It is not a participation or presence just by being there. It is a participation wherein we are sharing the stage. Our cto, our CEO, our VP are sharing the stage and showcasing what we are able to deliver, what we have as a capability.
And we are now getting multiple leads from there also. The client satisfaction has always been a priority for us. We have been continuing with a high rate of client satisfaction, somewhere around 85% or more. And we have been continuing with all the clients. There are multiple clients which are connected to us from last five years or before.
With this we again connect with the same thought. All these are getting converted into strong financial performances and public trust. Like I mentioned, our prudent financial policies and strong financial performance help us to deliver the best. This is very much or aptly connected with the value we have created for the shareholders.
As you can see on the screen, the initial investment of 1 lakh 20,000 when we were listed is actually now on absolute terms is delivering a 75 lakh of who paying return. So that’s the specific or that’s the conversion we have done in last five years. On those initial invested amount we have delivered multiple splits, bonus etc and with all these we have been able to pay a good dividend amount.
Also if we talk on absolute terms, we have been delivering 8,13,600 of dividend from the initial year of listing till now which is 7x of the investment which we did and the overall investment supposedly gives. If we, if we check on IRR perspective, the overall investment is delivering over 150% of IRR in these five years of listing.
So on a lighter note, I sometime feel if I have a time machine I’ll go back and I’ll get into the investment from 2020. But that’s the value we are creating for our strong set of stakeholders and investors. I’m moving ahead. This is specific the value which we have created. This specific value which we have created is actually connected to a consistent and solid financial policy. So it is not a one time thing or a quarter thing.
We are able to efficiently rotate our working capital and manage our debtors. We have been maintaining the improved working capital of less than 50 days and debtors of less than 60 days from last two years which ensures our strong cash flow. So that’s the core thought, which we are connected with now coming on the risk, supposedly, of defaults by payments from any specific clients.
Unidentified Speaker
All our like. Suppose I’ll just be very clear around this. Over 95% of our revenue is actually secured through a defined insurance. So we are not in that specific worry that okay, if there is any default, it would be impacting our numbers or supposedly the growth of our shareholders. So we have a good set of insurances, whether it is credit insurance, whether it is directors and officer insurance, whether it is any other insurance relating to performance.
All our areas, key areas are connected through a detailed insurance. I’ll take a example here. Recently there was one such occasion wherein there was a default from one of the client of over somewhere around 36 lakh. That specific amount was duly recovered through the insurances which we have been taking up.
So that’s the beauty of this specific protection which we are having through which we are not actually impacting the numbers from any such customer or any such transaction. Now what is the conversion? The conversion of all these financial provisions are connected to the consistent and healthy dividend which we are pending. So we, as we discussed in the previous slide, we have been maintaining a consistent and healthy dividend history. I’ll move towards the next part of this specific slide.
See, in the last 13 years, or supposedly the five years of listing, there were multiple locations or there were multiple instances where we validated our own strategy, the strategy to go to market strategy or the strategy around how to connect with the customers. There were three major instances or there are three major areas which we wanted to share it with you.
And we have been growing with these three steps even today. Now the only thing is these three steps are now clubbed. But initially we were actually partnering with SMEs for mutual and concurrent growth. That was our initial stage wherein we were actually looking for a ticket size of 10k, 15k, 20k and we were partnering with SMEs.
So what was happening initially that SME was actually giving us some work and then coincidentally gradually he was also growing with the ticket size also growing and through which we were getting multiple amounts of tickets or multiple amounts of transactions. Now with this as a base step, we connected with the second layer. Second layer means starting small with large enterprise. Like supposedly there is a large organization who is actually thinking to give us some amount.
Obviously as per the size of the organizations and as per the confidence of that specific organization, they will give some specific task to us. But then based on the quality which we are delivering, based on the thoughts in which we are actually delivering to the customer, they’ll increase the team size.
That’s the second stage or second layer of this category. And then the third stage is wherein we are now executing high impact.
Unidentified Speaker
Projects after study pursuit via RFPs or detailed deliberations. So this specific pillar, this specific set of pillars are actually helping case halls to grow. These are the core thoughts which we wanted to discuss with you. Let me take certain examples. Supposedly there was one of the organization which was actually like these two are the examples of starting small with large enterprises.
Like supposedly initially we are actually connected with a large enterprise. We are initiating with one or two team members but based on our quality, based on our delivery we are able to expand it to a good team. Same happened recently also. So I just thought to share these examples. A client, US based client who is connected with E commerce analytics platform initiated something in January wherein they only took one or two resources for the initial ticket.
However, based on the delivery which we did, based on the quality, they extended it to a 10 member team within the quarter. That’s very huge. You can understand this thought. That’s very huge for any specific team who is getting connected now based on this, the team now actually is an overall or end to end IT team, DevOps data science, front end, back end.
So that’s not a one layer or one channel connection which we are making with the team. We are now trying to connect as a delivery partner or as a digital partner for those clients also from whom we initiated very small. This rapid ramp up enabled the accelerated growth for this specific client.
Similarly now supposedly there are multiple clients whom we have connected the relation from last two three years and recently they expanded to a six member team. So these examples set a thought around this specific point that okay, we have a strategy that okay, if you are giving us a small ticket size well and good, we’ll penetrate into that specific organization and then based on our quality, based on our expertise, based on our technology understanding, we’ll evolve and we’ll grow in that specific industry.
Okay, now the third layer also executing high impact project. This we are able to get after study delivery or after a study quality of 3 years 4 years. Now we are able to deliberate more. Now we are able to connect with high stakeholders of any organization, high level stakeholders of any organization and we are able to get proposals via RFPs.
Also let me give some examples on this thought. Also we I’m just taking two such examples. We have multiple such examples but I’m just taking two such examples. We actually connected with the AI driven market research platform. This specific project was deliberated for supposedly two months, three months because these are all big size tickets.
These are not one year, one month or two month projects. These are one year.
Unidentified Speaker
Year project supposedly. So for any one year project the client, the organization would also take steady steps. They’ll also deliberate more. They’ll also check the quad, the market, they’ll also check the competitors and basis this deliberations. They’ll assign this task to you. So this engagement we initially started or discussed around February and then based on their specific requirements which include an on site presence at the client office which is these days very hard while being in hybrid or work from home environment, we actually got connected to this project and we in no time we actually extended to another project of the same ticket size supposedly and basis this
We are able to now create an account in that specific organization giving us somewhere around 600k USD. So that’s a huge confidence for us also wherein we are going very open handed towards any specific RFPs or supposedly high level deliberations because we know that the conversion time would get increased.
This is the ticket size. RFPs are mainly around these thoughts also you can understand what would happen. Any RFP would be floated, then we’ll submit some proposals, then there would be multiple deliberations, there would be multiple presentations, there would be a defined evaluation which they’ll have and basis that supposedly they’ll be able to come up with a selection, parameter and onboarding of any organization.
So this is happening in our situation also. We are also maintaining a good pipeline and we are also able to submit multiple such RFPs in this specific quarter. But let me just take the example of the second organization. This organization which is connected with a technical mesh solution actually came up for a overall end to end ERP implementation.
This engagement started in February with multiple ad hoc decisions and this specific small size of ticket gradually grown into a big transformation project. And these transformation project is not dedicated to one team. It is a multiple team, multiple employee setup which is helpful for the organization and the client both.
And we are now actually delivering it through our presence in relevant location of client. So the thought behind the whole story is the conversion time is getting extended because the ticket size is getting extended for any specific decision which is of high financial stake from any client, the conversion cycle will also be relatively connected to that specific project. We actually take proud in successful participations of key industry events.
Also this quarter we presented our stake, we presented our thoughts on multiple platforms whether it is Stockholm or California or New York or Las Vegas or.
Unidentified Speaker
All these events are actually standard events, are actually a very credential, are very defined events with a good name. So coincidentally wherever we are going, we are able to take stage, we are able to present our thoughts, we are able to connect with the leads. I take some examples what we have churned out of all these events. Supposedly in Gartner, which is a fame name in this industry.
In Gartner we were able to connect with multiple high stake business holders. We were able to connect with two of our leads which are right now ongoing. One specific thing we were able to connect for, we were able to connect with the VP of that specific organization who is now getting connected on detailed AI implementation. And secondly we were able to connect with the organizations who are having big revenue. Also like it is not a small organization, Gartner is not actually connected for the organizations who are of a low scale organizations.
We are actually getting connected with big organization having good revenue. So the other one which we are taking, this organization actually helped us to connect with their VP and we are now in talks of implementing end to end product which we have recently developed our DFM product in that specific, specific organization.
Our first client was also connected in this Gartner event. So our first client shared the stage, shared his experience with the audience and helped us to actually take the credentials to the world. So all these events are actually helping us to brand brand ourselves, present our products and services and actually get multiple good initiatives or multiple good leads.
Not taking much time. I’m just concluding with this slide, but this is an important slide to understand. We have been connected in this business from 13 years. We have been growing in this business from last five years. Every business has their own transitions as every business would be having their own platforms, their own stages.
This specific stage or this specific phase we call is a transition phase to a matured business model. So what is happening? We are actually maturing to a full fledged business model. Like I mentioned initially we were doing mostly TNM projects wherein we were actually aligning multiple personals and and we were actually getting multiple ticket size on that person.
But now what is happening, we are moving towards turnkey projects. Turnkey project as in we don’t have a risk of person or we don’t have a connection of that project with a defined employee. So we have our own freedom of selecting employees, we have our own freedom of managing the team.
Unidentified Speaker
And delivering it in a defined manner, in a defined period, which. Which has been agreed earlier. So the turnkey project is the phase or is the model in which multiple big IT organizations are also delivering things. The product centric growth is also ongoing. Like we mentioned in earlier quarters. We are very much optimistic and we are very much positive with the growth our products are doing, especially dfm.
So DFM is having a big market. DFM is. We are able to get multiple calls daily or demos daily with high end organizations like Vodafone supposedly to check out what they need for this specific area. And DFM is actually able to match most of the needs through which we are trying to enhance and connect with these specific organizations.
So product centric growth strategy is on. We are very much connected on this thing and if this goes very smooth, we might be having a dedicated profit center for these products so that it is impacting or not connecting with the core service area. Now a focus on this thought is the bigger deals, the longer clocks.
This is one such thought which we wanted to share with you. Now since we are actually connected on big ticket size, we may have to check for a conversion timeline of month and quarter. That is very important to connect here because the ticket size would grow. But then initially when we were actually getting some small set of ticket, we were actually able to deliver the same in one year, one month or so, two month, three month.
But now what is happening since the ticket size is good, since the client is good, repute is good, the conversion time is also taking so some some time. Practically it is quarter, sometimes it is four months, three months, whatever. Because you can understand, these clients whom we are connected with are actually the. The level, the hierarchy in which we are now getting connected.
Mainly give two, three meetings in a month for deliberations, for flowing the thoughts, for understanding the conversion and all. So the decision making since it is going on a higher level of hierarchy is taking long time. Similarly, when it is connected with the big deals, the expansion is mostly connected with the year on year thought. Because what is happening, we are able to deliver the same. We are able to get the task for an year or so. It is not a quarter or six months task.
Now it is a year or more than we recently got an end to end transformation, RFP submission and proposal conversion through RFP, which is actually a 15 month project. So that means we are now moving from a quarter or six months ticket size to a year or more than that. And since it is a journey.
Unidentified Speaker
Journey to a matured business model. We may be connected with some fluctuations, but our intrinsic value, our real time growth, our long term vision is actually very clear. We are mostly here to connect, to accelerate and to showcase our capabilities and experts. I think I’ll not take much time.
We’ll open for Q and A. But before that I just wanted to conclude with a thought. The thought of Karmandevadi Karaste. The actions are in our hand. We are focused and fully flown towards those actions. We are actually driving toward expansion, driving towards growth. This growth is not specifically or not connected directly with revenue or supposedly numbers. This growth is also connected with the growth around the employees, the ticket size and the continuity which we are having.
So I think I’ll close the call here and we can continue for Q A. Thank you. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Umang Soni
Thanks. Darpan would request if you can end the presentation. Sure. We now take Q A First question from Apollo and Ratanji will now be joining us on the call in the active discussions. You can go ahead please.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you sir for the opportunity. Thank you for the very well presentation. So my question is on the AI side. So if you can explain what all things are doing on the AI side. AI side. See, basically we are continuously. I can say that increasing the team size on the AI side. We are exploring as much as a generative AI, but it is not something that we have recently started.
We are working in traditional machine language, I think since last five, six years before. Okay. And we have other. For the traditional machine learning. The predicted. The predicted. The predictive analysis is the core part. If you will say that machine learning. The traditional machine learning. So we are doing productive analysis since last five years. I have already explained in earlier calls that for example, we have implemented predictive analysis for a telecom domain where we can analyze that which modem is going down.
We have done same thing for the one healthcare agency company where we were analyzing that which compressor is going down. And for the recent work we have implemented much this predictive.
Unidentified Participant
This is for a Fortune 500 company and it still it is going on so in the AI section. But honestly speaking, as per my understanding, customers are very conservative at this moment, everyone is taking time to invest money in the AI side. However, you will see buzz around the world that AI is growing very fast and all. But everyone is very careful spend while spending money in the AI because they are not aware with the result, okay? That what is going to happen, okay? Because in most of the cases accuracy is a problem, okay? And they are still validating the accuracy,
Sir. So the revenue which we get from this AI side, which you have explained from the telecom and the compressor part, so that how much percentage that could be from a complete or total revenue in the future or right now? Right now, currently,
Unidentified Speaker
Do you have any data? Like I think, is it less than 1% or like it is a significant.
Umang Soni
No, no, it is. It is more than 1%. Definitely it is more than 1% AIML collectively, if you can say, because there are multiple more technologies in our forte. So technology wise bifurcation is getting tough. But on a broader level, AIML roughly would contribute around 10, 11% of our total revenue. See, AI, it is not something that it is a AIML. Python also belongs to AIML.
Okay? Predictive analysis also belongs to AIML. Generative AI also belongs to AIML. So there are so many branches, okay? And so overall collective, if you will say that it is more than 10% of the case Also problem is that the profitability in AI, okay? Is as compared to other technology is less, okay?
Because the resource cost is very high. Three year resource takes approximately 30 lakhs, okay? And at the same time, customer does not want to pay more than $35 per hour, okay? So profitability is less as compared to other technology, for example, big data or microservices and all. But yes, it is growing.
Unidentified Participant
And also one more thing which you have mentioned in your presentation regarding the EBITDA margin, where you have, where you have mentioned three things. ESOP expenses, leadership and events participation. That figure is per quarter basis. Yes, it is compared with last year same quarter.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay? Last year, same quarter. If you will see, okay, then you will not see any in this quarter what we have added new things.
Unidentified Participant
Think if we will compare the last quarter ESOP
Umang Soni
Approximately 50 lakhs okay? And then what we have done we have. We went to attend events and we have spent approximately 2 crore in this event in this quarter. Okay? Which is a huge. And it was required for this year but it is not something that we are going to have again same kind of events or again same kind of expense from the next year.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay? So we have. It means it is not going to have the same expenses for the next year the 2 crore for the years. Okay? So if you add 2 crore plus 50 lakhs ESOP okay then you will get the answer that why our Percentage is down 2.5 Cr is a huge yes sir.
Unidentified Participant
Understood sir. S on my next question is on the DFM part in the last quarter Concord, you have mentioned that we have got our first client for the DFM and right? So want to know what is attraction right now? Have we got more clients on that and at what price have we given? Because earlier we have mentioned that we have given at $40,000 although it was very less but as it was the first client we have given now just want to know what’s the scenario right now See in.
Unidentified Speaker
In this call it will be very tough to explain everything about the DFM because DFM is itself. I can say that a. A very big project. Okay? For case halls means we have invested approximately one year. Okay? And yes, the first answer is that yes, we have got one more customer and approximately 10 customers are in the pipeline. Okay? We are talking to them and trial will be start by September and three months will be that trial. I have lot of things about the DFM but first I would like to update all these things to exchange and then I will update all about.
Unidentified Participant
And the. The way we do pricing in DFM is subscription based, right? It is annually charged, right?
Unidentified Speaker
It is annual.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And so my just last question regarding on the growth or something like we have guided for around 20 growth and around 25 EBITDA margins are we looking are on the same lines for the year or have we changed?
Unidentified Speaker
I’m. I’m still rigid on the same line. One thing I have stated in previous calls that 30% EBITDA margin and it will not go down. Okay, but we went down, right? But we can explain you. I would like to explain you even.
Unidentified Participant
Darpan Orang. Can you share this screen? Can you share the screen Share Ask you to prepare.
Umang Soni
Yes. Yes. Okay. I’m sharing my screen. Is it visible?
Unidentified Participant
No. Okay, so if you see 37.33% we have done this time and 26.41 is the operational profit margin, right? And esop expense is 0.3 and 1.7 is approximately a event. Okay? And if we have not done this, okay. Our profit margin would have been approximately 31.71% which I have stated that our profit margin will not go down below 30. Okay?
So you can. Means you can see that simple ESOP and events which will not have means event will not simply happen in from the next year, okay? And ESOP will continue. It is. It is must for our employees. So we are still. If you see that we are still above 30% and I’m not counting my salary other. Other salaries which we have explained.
Okay, that is required. Okay? But if you add all these things we are still above 31.7. And what I’m saying right now assume we don’t do any growth 37.33% assume. However it will not happen. Assume. Okay. And if you remove all these expenses event participation we would be above then we will 25%. Right? So I can see that I. I’m getting a lot of question then they are comparing EBITDA with the previous year and previous to previous quarter and all.
But they should also con see that what I have done in this quarter means the. I have spent approximately 1.7 crore for the event only. Okay? And point 3 for ESOP. So suppose 0.3 ESOP will continue but 1.7 will not happen from the next year. Okay?
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. So just one more thing I want to understand like as recently we have done the.
Unidentified Participant
Sorry you asked about the DFM. DFM is going to be the next Dashboard Ninja. Dashboard Ninja. Cost was approximately 500 per download. But it has created a business of 10 corrode per quarter. Means more than 100 employees are working in the UDO. Okay? So DFM will not just create a one time revenue. It will also give us and even we are getting lot of inquiries.
Unidentified Speaker
Queries for the big data things. Nifi, Apache, Kafka, Spark, Cassandra and all these things. Okay, so that’s why I said that I will send some updates to First Exchange and then I will talk more about the numbers and future prediction in the future prediction about the DFM revenue.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so that’s it from my end and all the best team. Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you,
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Pratik Sen Pathik. You can unmute and ask
Unidentified Participant
For the opportunity. Sir, my question is that we have mentioned that 85% of our revenue comes from repeat customers, right? But roughly 40% of the revenue is from Salesforce and Odoo. And if my understanding is correct, these are largely one of implementation projects. So how are we getting to this 80, 85% number?
Umang Soni
See, Salesforce, what I am seeing right now in. Okay, Salesforce is something where competition is very tight. Very tight. Okay, so we are not getting a lot of business in the Salesforce. We are waiting for the person means we have recruited a Jerry, okay, from the Australia as a VP and it, it is only just three months he has joined and one month he was continuously traveling.
So I hope that with the help of Jerry we will get good businesses in the Salesforce. But for the Salesforce, I can say that definitely we have not added any good accounts. Very good accounts in the last. In the this quarter. But with the help, what I am seeing right now, the big data and big data and open sources, these technologies are growing very fast and AI also.
Okay, we have done very good growth in the AI as well. Okay. So the accounts which are already existing, they have started using big data as well as the AI for, for their better growth and to increase the efficiency, they have started using the AI and big data. Earlier they were using the traditional technologies
Unidentified Participant
To connect more around the question, sir.
Umang Soni
So Pratik, what is happening if supposedly there is any specific account? No, we are actually extending the account from AMC’s perspectives also. So it’s not that okay, we are delivering and moving out. We are actually there. We are actually connected with that specific organization. We actually out of sight, out of thought type of thing is not there. So we are trying to be there to get more revenue from that specific organization. So it’s not a one time thing. It’s an AMC also which is continuing with that thought. AMC and. As you explained in the previous slides that so many customers start from the small tickets and they continuously add new features. They are continuously add new resources. So in that way we are we have a retention as well as then we have increased our revenue. Okay,
Unidentified Participant
So what’s the split between implementation and recurring revenue for Salesforce and Odoo? If you can share
Umang Soni
That I have not right now. I can send you in the email. You can. You can drop me email. Okay, Okay, I will send you.
Unidentified Participant
Sure, sure. And sir, what’s your outlook on the percentage revenue contribution from our products over next three to five years?
Umang Soni
As I said, that expectation is high. But I will send my updates to first exchange expectation is high with the tfm.
Unidentified Participant
Sure. Thank you sir. I’ll get back in queue. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Whoever wishes we’ll take the next question from the line of Apura.
Unidentified Participant
Just have one follow up question. So you mentioned that in AI we are working on the gen AI as well. So if you can elaborate what exactly on gen we are doing? Our CTO is not in this call.
Umang Soni
Okay, So I cannot elaborate too much but I will try my best to explain.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so basically JNAI is not moving very fast. Honestly speaking, in at least in case all we are working mostly in traditional ML. Okay. J is generally I can say that people have. People are coming to us. They are doing lots of inquiries and but with the end result what I’m seeing that still they are confused, okay.
Umang Soni
That they should invest or not. I can give you one example. Okay, so many people are coming for the chat enhanced version of the chat GPT. Okay? For example, one driving agency from the Dubai they contacted us that. Okay, can we replace their support system with the genpt? Okay, we have done some demo. Okay?
But the output what they were getting. For example, suppose if. If their customer is asking any wrong question. Okay? In that case gen AI was not giving 100% correct result. And in that case they said that we will believe on humans in this case and another case is that Genai means if the security. People wants to deploy LLM on their own environment, okay? Which is very costly. Means on premises. And they are trying, they are avoiding open AI means they are not very open to means even open AI and other companies are giving them guarantee that their data will be secure, okay? But they are not ready to use it, okay? They are saying that we can use generative AI if you will provide your own LLM LLM specifically designed for their requirement and that will be deployed into their premises which is very tough, very costly, okay? So right now if you will see that means people are not relying on cloud for their data, okay? They are very concerned about the data. So that’s why this I, I what I am seeing that this is going to be a biggest concern. For example bank, okay? If bank, bank wants to use chat, GPT or Genai, okay? They will say that bank they will use only and only when you will deploy LLM on their premises. It with zero Internet, okay? If someone can provide customized LLM for their premises only then they will use otherwise they are not going to use cloud, okay? So that is the major concern. Means people are avoiding it means we lost so many. So, so many means at least four to five businesses just because they are not ready to connect their data with open AI, okay? They are saying that if we can have a own LLM we can deploy on their server. This is not possible at this level.
Unidentified Participant
And so you were mentioning about some updates regarding the dfm. You would be telling the exchanges, right? So like by like is this, Will this take a long time? Maybe two, three months or like soon you would be updating these two exchanges.
Umang Soni
Can you come again please? Dfm,
Unidentified Participant
You were mentioning about some updates regarding the dfm, right? DFM product, right? Want to know that like you it will take more time like such in couple of months you would be before agm,
Umang Soni
Before AGM we will come up there, okay? On AGM we will come up with the whole idea that how we are going to use dfm.
Unidentified Participant
Okay? Okay. Thank you sir.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Anyone who wishes to ask the question, please raise your hand or put it in the chat box and we’ll ask the question for you. There’s a question in chat. From Misha event cost for the next three quarters. Would it be in the range of approximately 2 crores?
Umang Soni
No, no. From the Q1 it will be per quarter. It will be less than 50 lakhs. From the. Sorry, from Q4. You mean Q4 of this financial year? Yes. Second question is what can be the ESOP cost for FY26 and FY27? ESOP cost would roughly be the same as in this quarter. So that would somewhere around 60, 70 lakhs each quarter. And it will get reduced if we don’t grant another new options to somewhere around 50 lakhs each quarter. Any plan to grant new options?
Unidentified Participant
Then the third question is any more leadership recruitments in the pipeline?
Umang Soni
No, we are done.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Umang Soni
We are very careful about the hiring. Okay. Because we have already had good numbers. So we have enough bench. Okay. So leader on the leadership. We don’t. I do not see any open position on the middle layer or on the junior fresher level. We will keep hiring because they, they. They. They get billable.
Operator
Thank you, sir. We’ll take the next question from Dushab Doshi. You can unmute and ask.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Hi. So my question was like you know, going ahead I wanted to understand our thought process for returning, you know, money to shareholders. Like. Like if let’s say our stock is down from 50% around from the peak, does buyback make more sense? Like so you know, that’s my thought. Because also currently like the first dividend which you announced which is one rupee. So this is the lowest amount which we are going to pay. You know, adjusted for all the split splits and bonuses. So I just wanted to understand the thought process like buybacks versus dividends.
And also like earlier, dividends made more sense since you weren’t taking any remuneration directly. So but now that if we have some remuneration so are you more open towards buybacks? So that’s my question.
Umang Soni
It is the future prediction. If I will predict right now, if I will say anything, it may change. Okay. I. I cannot say that 100% it will be done. It it depend on the situation. But my future planning is that definitely buy back in future. And by keeping this dividend. On the lower side.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, that’s all from my side. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from bat. You can unmute and ask.
Unidentified Participant
Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, just wanted to understand the breakdown of revenue between one time services and product. If you could give broad percentages, that would be fine.
Umang Soni
Product is right now very less. Okay. I think 1% or 2%.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay.
Umang Soni
Services and services and onetime and recurring services breakdown. I have not done this, but I think it is related to the repeated customers. Right.
Unidentified Participant
If you like talk about services. Around 98.5 or 98 revenue total come from services and that again breakdowns to fixed cost and TNM. Right. So around 80% is TNM and the rest comes from fixed cost.
Umang Soni
Fixed cost. So basically all of this 98.5% revenue is recurring. Is it? So if I have it this year, I’m going to have it next year also there is no one time implementation revenue. Not completely 100 recurring. Okay. So many projects get closed. Okay. But at the same time few players get start.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. New projects get start. So not 100 means not 100 of 98%. So is it recurring? So what percentage would be recurring? Sir, that’s. That’s my question.
Umang Soni
At least I can say that 70.
Unidentified Participant
70. Yeah, sure. This is very helpful. So thank you. All the best.
Umang Soni
At least 70% means.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from rubbish.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you for giving me the opportunity. Good afternoon. My question is related to the order book progression. I. I see that you know, we are dealing with the big projects or the bigger customer bigger orders. So which are making sometimes the delays in the revenue recognition or even the order finalization.
But how is it progressing? Like quarter on quarter. If you look at last three sequential quarters and the pipeline of next at least one or two quarters. How is the order book placed? Is it growing and grow? If it is growing, what is the indication it is giving? Would you like to give answer?
Unidentified Speaker
So ravish, if you see all this big project started in the December 24 quarter. So after that we started con means the talks were earlier from the June 24, but it took six months to convert.
Unidentified Speaker
The project, many projects took more than six months as well. So in quarter four, we had some revenue from those projects which we booked. And in this quarter also, as Dapan highlighted, we have added few customers which were already in the pipeline. So yes, the order book is progressing it.
Umang Soni
So if I have to ask you, like the total contract value or the total order value that we have as of let’s say the 30th of June, is it bigger than what it was at the 31st of March?
Unidentified Participant
Definitely, yes.
Umang Soni
Yeah. Okay. Right. So we are progressing on the forward log, that’s what you are saying?
Unidentified Participant
Yes, yes. Yes.
Umang Soni
Okay. Only thing is that the conversion time is getting increased.
Unidentified Participant
And is that because the order sizes, for example,
Umang Soni
I will give you one, let me give you one example. That lead came for a Apache Kafka and they said that they are leading bank. Okay. And they. They said that they will take one year to evaluate. They will find out three vendors we were selected and the project duration is approximately five year.
Okay. One example. Second is another bank. South Africa, South America. Okay. We are talking to that bank. I think more than six months even we visited to their place. Okay? Okay. We visited to their place and still we are talking to that company. Right now they are working with the one of the top five company in India. Okay. And they want to leave that company. Okay. They are into Salesforce. So there are so many companies. Means that the conversion cycle is now increasing.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you. All the best.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take a follow up question from the chat from Maitrisha.
Unidentified Participant
We mentioned in the last quarter there were 12 demos done of DFM, Air Terror, Red Hat mentioned. So any progress from these companies? Unfortunately, fortunately we are not able to reach to the decision makers.
Umang Soni
Okay. For most of the companies, okay. Big brands, they. They like the product. But somehow the decision makers are someone else. Okay, but no need to worry about these things. There are so many companies which are giving us importance and they are ready for the trial. I cannot take the name. Okay. They are also big companies because it is not some means. Big data can be only used by the. At least 100 million million. $100 million. The revenue companies. Okay. So good thing is that we are getting inquiries, we are giving the demos. Okay. And we have a very good pipeline for the dfm. Okay. And I hope that actual revenue we will see very soon next to next quarter. But because the trial period we are giving them three months because you know initially we need to give them as much as time to evaluate. Okay. Once we will have the good customers in our bucket that then we can increase the cost as well as we can decrease the trial time. Then we can tell them our terms and condition. But right now we are doing whatever they are same. Okay. So that’s why the conversion time is high, but customers are good.
Operator
Okay, thank you sir. We’ll take the last question of the day from Piyush Patel. Piyush, you can unmute and ask.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. You have delivered 13% quarter on quarter revenue growth in Q1 versus Q4 which is reaching around 37.67 Cr this quarter. Is this the sustainable quarter on quarter growth rate, growth rate that one can expect in this year or do you wish to guide us?
What would be the realistic quarter on quarter revenue growth?
Umang Soni
This time we are not going to give the guidance. Last time we give the guidance because it was first time when our sales was down. But now I believe that we can do better in future. So guidance I’m not going to give. I’m very sorry. But yes, we will try our best to sustain and grow from here as well.
Unidentified Participant
Okay sir, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Since that was the last question of the day, I request the management to give any closing comments.
Umang Soni
No. First of all, thank you to everyone for joining the call and believing in case all. We are looking forward for the better growth. We are working very hard. Let’s see how it goes.
Operator
Thank you sir. Thank you to the management for your time. Thank you to all the participants for joining. You may all disconnect now.
Umang Soni
Thank you.
Ratan Kumar Srivastava
Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you. Thank you.