Krsnaa Diagnostics Ltd (NSE: KRSNAA) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 13, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Pawan Daga — Chief Financial Officer
Yash Mutha — Executive Director
Pallavi Bhatevara — Managing Director
Mitesh Dave — Group Chief Executive Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Bharat Celly — Analyst
Lokesh Manik — Analyst
Raman Kevi — Analyst
Surya Patra — Analyst
Aditya Khemka — Analyst
Pranay Khandelwal — Analyst
Dhwanil Desai — Analyst
Parikshit Kabra — Analyst
Subrata Sarkar — Analyst
Deepali Bansal — Analyst
Deepak Poddar — Analyst
Amruta Deherkar — Analyst
Bhagwat — Analyst
Siddhartha — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
A very warm welcome to the Q4 and FY 2025 results conference call of Krishna Diagnosis Limited. Before we be I would like to remind all participants that today’s call may contain statements that are forward looking statements including but without limitation statements relating to the implementation of strategic initiatives and other statements relating to Krishna Diagnosis, future business developments and economic performance. While these forward looking statements indicate our assessment and future expectations concerning the development of our business, a number of risks, uncertainties and other unknown factors could cause actual developments and result to differ materially from our expectations.
As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touch tone phone. Please note that this conference has been recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bharat Sali. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Bharat Celly — Analyst
Hi, good morning everyone and welcome to third quarter FY25 results conference call of Krishna Diagnostics. Joining us today on the call are Mr. Rajendra Mutha, Chairman and Full Time Director, Mr. Yash Mutha, Managing Director, Executive Director, Mr. Nitesh Taver, Group CEO Mr. Pawan Dawa, CFO Mr. Vivek Jain, Head Investor Relations. I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Yashmuth for his opening remarks. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Yash Mutha — Executive Director
Hello. Thanks Bharat. Good morning everyone. I’m pleased to welcome you all to Krishna Diagnostic Limited’s Q4, FY25 and the full year FY25 earnings conference call. Before we commence with today’s call, I would like to take a solemn moment to honor the brave soldiers of our nation, those who continue to safeguard our freedom with unflinching courage, and those who have laid down their lives in the line of duty. On behalf of everyone at Krishna Diagnostics, I extend our deepest condolences to the families of the fallen. Their sacrifice is a poignant reminder of the resilience and spirit that defines our country.
As a public private partner to governments and institutions across India, Crystal Diagnostics stands shoulder to shoulder with the nation, not only in advancing access to quality diagnostics, but in upholding the values of empathy, service and accountability. We are not just healthcare providers, we are enablers of hope, especially in times when it’s needed the most. Now coming to our full year performance of FY25, I’d like to open up by stepping back and recognizing the unique position that CRISPR Diagnostics occupies in India’s healthcare landscape. We are not built like traditional diagnostic players. While others focus on dense urban markets, retail led models and premium price points, Krishna is fundamentally different.
We are a deep penetration public private healthcare infrastructure, partner and purpose built to serve Bharat and not just the urban India. Through our PPP based model and an integrated offering of radiology, pathology and teleradiology, we have built a diagnostic platform that is inclusive, scalable and sustainable. Not just commercially, but socially as well. At Krisna, every year is a step forward in our journey. Not just as a healthcare company, but as a platform that is redefining access to quality diagnostics in India. And as we reflect on FY25, it becomes clear this was a year where we demonstrated the strength of our model, the resilience of our team and the uniqueness of our mission.
You’ve heard us speak before about how the Indian diagnostic space is evolving. But it’s worth restating that we are operating in one of the most under penetrated diagnostic markets. Globally organized players like us make up to just 15% of the US $12 billion industry. That number is slowly growing, but the real story lies in how it is growing and who is shaping that growth. At Krishna, we believe we are not just following the market, we are helping build it. We’ve architected a model that goes far beyond the metro into the very core of India. A model that brings high quality diagnostics at prices that everyone can afford.
Prices which are almost 70% lower than the market rates. And in spite of these lower prices, we are able to build a sustainable business model with EBITDA in the range of around 25 to 27% and profitability in the range of 11 to 15%. We don’t see affordability and quality as a trade off. We rather see them as twin pillars. This differentiation has been especially visible in our leadership in the public private partnerships under the government of India’s free diagnostic service initiatives. 12 states have adopted free pathology services and 90 states have adopted the free radiology services.
We have won tenders in eight out of these 12 pathology states and 12 out of the 19 laid lodges. That’s a 75% win to bid ratio which we believe is unmatched in the industry. These wins are more than contracts, they are trust placed in us by the public health system. In terms of the results, in FY25 we delivered a 16% growth in revenue reaching 701,72,007,172 million. Supported by increased awareness, patient volumes and pricing efficiency. The EBITDA 34% to INR 1,958 million, with margins expanding by 370 basis points to 27%, reflecting strong operating leverage. The net profit grew by 37% to INR 776 million, highlighting a disciplined approach to cost and productivity.
But beyond the P and L, what’s truly satisfying is how this performance was delivered. In FY25 we served over 19 million patients and conducted over 61 million tests, both numbers up significantly from the previous year. This is a direct outcome of our operational maturity, the network optimization and our expanding digital and teleology capabilities. While our aspiration for the year was to grow in the range of 20 to 25%. We have however delivered a strong 16% revenue growth, which we believe reflects the resilience of a model, especially in a year where external timing factors were at play.
The variance was primarily driven by delays in site handovers for our large Maharashtra CP MRI projects and the early conclusion of the BMC project due to budget exhaustion ahead of its contracted tenure. The new BMC tender had revised conditions as well as certain budget recaps which we valued carefully and chose not to pursue in its current form, keeping the long term profitability in mind. Additionally, we’ve also made certain conscious decisions to rationalize exposure in certain regions where receivables were stretching disproportionately, a reflection of our focus on capital, discipline and the quality of revenue, not just the volumes.
So while the top line growth came below our aspirations, the quality of revenue improved, margins expanded and our balance sheet remains healthy, positioning us well for FY26 and beyond. What also gives us confidence in our forward visibility is our order book and the upcoming project pipeline. We continue to win tenders, deepen our presence in tier 2 tier 3 cities and activate sites with better productivity timeline Our younger portfolio is maturing well with strong ROE ROC improvements across the cohorts. Alongside the PPP business, our retail strategy has gained strong momentum. Leveraging our PPP infrastructure, we scaled our retail presence across four states namely Maharashtra, Punjab, Assam and Odisha, growing at touch points almost 4x in just one year.
This is being supported by the in store branding wellness campaigns and the B2B and B2C collaborations across hospitals, smoking homes its early days, but the direction is certainly promising from a strategic lens. We are executing on five major priorities. The first one to continue expand our PPP leadership by participating in new tenders across the underserved geographies. Number two growing our integrated diagnostic offerings which include radiology, pathology and teleradology. Under one cohesive operating model, driving sustainable profitability through cost leadership without compromising quality and care as well as accelerating our retail footprint, especially in high potential space where we already have built certain brand equity.
And the last but not the least, we continue to lead on quality with the highest number of accreditations among value focused players. As we look ahead to FY26 and beyond, we remain focused, confident and optimistic not just because of what we have achieved, but because of what lies ahead. India is still early in its healthcare transformation story and diagnostics is one of its most crucial enablers. Krishna is proud to be at the heart of this shift. All of this reinforces what we’ve always said. We are not building a diagnostics company for the next quarter, but with the multi pronged strategy and increased focus on retail, we are building a healthcare platform for the next decade.
With this I now hand it over to our group CEO Mr. Mitesh Dawe who will walk you through the retail strategy and the overall operation performance. Over to you mitesh.
Mitesh Dave — Group Chief Executive Officer
Thank you Mr. Yash. A very good morning to everyone. It is my pleasure to walk you through the exciting progress we are making in our retail diagnostic business, where we stand today and the immense opportunity that lie ahead. Pathology segment which makes up around 58% of total diagnostic market is poised for strong growth with the projected 10 to 12% CAGR. This moment is being driven by several powerful trends. The growing demand for home collection services due to its unmet convenience, the rise of preventive diagnostic as a lifestyle choice and it is starting from now 30 onwards 30 to 50 rapid diagnostic adoption in tier 2 tier 3 market which are becoming powerful growth engines and the acceleration of digital diagnostics including ad bill bookings, teleconsultations and instant digital report deliveries.
At Crystal Diagnostics we are embracing this transformation with the energy and ambition under our we are scaling our retail footprints by strategically leveraging our robust PPP infrastructure. We have successfully launched retail operation across Maharashtra, Punjab, Assam, Odisha with the promising early results. The demand for wellness packages is growing rapidly and our expanding network is building strong brand recall and customer trust as well as connect with the best in class quality, competitive pricing and 247 availability. RPL is redefining what diagnostic means in India making it more accessible, more affordable and more reliable than ever before. Our unique asset light model gives us flexibility to scale quickly ensuring we maintain capital efficiency while we expanding aggressively.
The diagnostic landscape is undergoing a fundamental shift and we are at the forefront of this evolution. Consumers are prioritizing preventive care and embracing digital first solutions. We are well positioned to lead in this space by strengthening our B2C presence by enhancing our network expanding our retail footprints in metro and high growth tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3 markets where demand is high and supply remains undersold. In addition, we are actively partnering with the corporates to integrate home collection services into the wellness programs, bringing diagnostic closer to where people work and live. Our investment in education and awareness campaign is creating a more informed and proactive consumer base on the network front.
We demonstrated very strong growth growing forex growth in our network within our first year of operations. This gives us confidence of continuing growth momentum and capitalizing the untapped opportunity across Tier 1, 2 and Tier 3 downs. We have also made inroads in specialty segments as well as genomics, expanding our capabilities while maintaining affordability, Further reinforcing our commitment to affordable and accessible diagnostic for all. The response to our wellness offerings has been overwhelmingly positive and our brand is becoming increasingly trust, quality and accessibility. Our vision is bold and focused to become India’s most trusted and preferred diagnostic brand across metros and beyond.
To realize this, we are expanding and training our network of phlebotomists to cover both urban and rural geographies. Upgrading our digital platforms for seamless booking, real time tracking and faster report delivery Optimizing our logistics and lab operations to ensure rapid sample processing and turnaround times. By bridging the gap between advanced diagnostics and accessibility, we are not only enhancing individual health outcomes but also playing a key role in strengthening India’s healthcare ecosystem. We are energized by tremendous potential ahead of remain fully committed to delivering strong sustainable growth at Krishna. Under rpl our goal is clear to be doctor’s preferred partner and patient first choice for affordability anytime, anywhere.
Built on the foundation of trust, quality and innovation. With that, thanks everyone and would like to hand it over to Mr. Pawan Daza, our CFO to take you through the financial highlights. Over to you Bhavan. Thank you.
Pawan Daga — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Mitesh, Let me just brief you about the Q4FY25 performance of the company. Revenue for Q4FY25 stood at Rupees 1861 million 12% year on year increase driven by higher volume in both radiology and pathology segments. EBITDA for Q4FY25 stood at rupees 542 million, a 23% year on year increase with a margin of 29% reflecting strong operational efficiency. Net profit stood at rupees 206 million with a margin of 11%. In FY25 we have achieved revenue for FY25 stood at rupees 7172 million. A 16% year on year increase driven by in both radiology and pathology segment.
EBITDA for FY25 stood at rupees 1,958 million or 34% year on year increase with a margin of 27% reflecting a strong operational efficiency. Net profit stood at rupees 776 million with a market of 7% registering a 37% growth year on year. Board has recommended a dividend of rupees 2.75 per share that is 55% of a face value. Taking a closer look at our balance sheet, as of 03-31-2025 we hold a gross debt of Rupees 1655 million by maintaining a cash and cash equivalent of Rupees 17,60 million. As of FY25, our receivables stand at 128 days driven primarily by transitional delays in Himachal Pradesh and Karnataka.
Encouragingly, all other operating states continue to reflect healthy receivable cycle remaining well below 90 days. With the rollout of digitized payment infrastructure including a unified gateway and RBI nominated account system, we are already seeing a systematic improvement in the payments. We are confident that backed by our disciplined connection strategy and strong stakeholder relationship this receivable timelines will be normalized positioning us for a stronger cash flow in upcoming quarters. With this we conclude our opening. We conclude this call and open a forum for question answers.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Lokesh Manik from Valen Capital. Please proceed.
Lokesh Manik
Yes. Hi. Good morning to the team. Am I audible?
Pawan Daga
Yes. Yes.
Lokesh Manik
Yeah. Is it better?
Pawan Daga
Yes. Yes.
Lokesh Manik
Yeah. My first question was on the web emerging business somewhere in 23 we had expanded at a good pace of addition of 2025 radiology centers whose throughput we were expecting by 25. But you know, that doesn’t seem to be the case because since one and a half year we’ve been growing on the back of pathology. So any delay in the throughput that you can share some details on radiology is sort of adding on to the top line revenue expectations in the past. It takes two years for the centers to mature like you said you mentioned in the past, so you can throw some light on that.
Yash Mutha
Sure. So if you see there are two factors to it. One is of course the pathology project that we had implemented last year has growing at a faster pace in terms of the ramp up and therefore you see the mix shifting towards pathology versus rail logging. On the rail logic side, also the site implementation, like I alluded in my call earlier, wherein there were certain delays in the site implementation and consequently the ramp up has happened at a slower pace. So these are the reasons. But what we’ve seen, just to give you a recent example, in one of our recently put up MRI where we saw the numbers that we anticipated to come after three months had come in the first few months itself.
So we are seeing these different trends and of course because we have been radiology focused, the effort is there to keep on continuing the ramping of our business and operations. And in the subsequent quarters you’ll see the radiology contributing at a higher pace than what it was earlier
Lokesh Manik
understood. And on your slide in terms of the projections for FY27, so the growth seems to have slowed down. The number of additions seem to have slowed down, except especially for the ones on the estimated which is to be executed and for the projected as well, you know, there are lesser numbers of opportunities that you are seeing. So if the market’s slowing down, the opportunities are coming down because now we are adding like, you know, roughly 20 centers on a base of 300 addition then tends to come down a little bit.
Yash Mutha
The market is not slowing down. What we’ve done is we’ve been very careful and calibrated in terms of showing what are the realistic numbers. The market, as I mentioned earlier, in fact, from a government policy perspective, the government wishes to have more than 2,000 radiology centers and we are just a few hundred. But again, from a guidance perspective, as well as from what we see as a realistic outlook and a very selective and calibrated outlook, we these are the numbers that we believe are prospects in the making. There are discussions going on, but I wouldn’t want to put everything up front as and when these discussions mature and as and when the opportunity comes up, and given that they are of value creation and profitability, those numbers will be poised.
But as of now, these are some realistic numbers that we expect to conclude in the coming years.
Lokesh Manik
On the retail venture, my second question was on the retail by FY27, what is the revenue potential that you estimate from this? And if you can give a clarification on one slide, it is mentioned, we have 250 exclusive centers and then we also have touch points which are going from 1600 to 10,000 by 27. So on these three areas, some more clarification if you can provide will be helpful.
Mitesh Dave
Yes, certainly. At RPL we are currently focusing on building the infrastructure through the asset light models, multiple client friendly asset light models. Because those are the share source of the revenues going forward. And as and when the centers are strike start putting up their roads inside, the revenue is bound to be there. And certainly it could be way beyond what the market is currently going at. However, giving out the outlook for 27 revenue numbers, it’s little too early for now because the entire business and the structures and the systems are getting into the place. But with the initial one year centers or the touch points that we have formed up, we have laid down across India in the fourth state, these are pretty promising.
Lokesh Manik
But what is the difference between a center and a touch point in that network?
Mitesh Dave
Yes, sir. Well, touchpoints are the ones which are not really exclusive as of now. Eventually with the Services Quality and USPs at an RPL that we carry moving into from touch points to the exclusive network.
Lokesh Manik
Both are collection centers, right?
Mitesh Dave
Both are the revenue generator centers and are aligned to RPL for trusting them, for processing their patient samples or the radiology needs.
Lokesh Manik
Understood? Understood. That’s it. From my side. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Before I take the next question, ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participants. The next question is from the line of Raman KV from Sequent Investments. Please proceed.
Raman Kevi
Hi doctor, can you hear me?
Mitesh Dave
Yes, we can hear you.
Raman Kevi
Yeah. So my first question is with respect to the partnership which you announced with Medical and United Imaging wherein you said you’ll get equipments from Medicabazar, but you’ll only pay around 10 to 15% of equipment cost and remaining will be paid on a deferred payment basis. So what is the interest on this deferred payment basis?
Pawan Daga
So Pawan, this site, the interest component is there is 7%.
Raman Kevi
7% annually. Hello.
Pawan Daga
Yes, annually.
Raman Kevi
Okay. And so my second question is is with respect to the guidance and margin. So can you give any volume guidance for FY26 and in FY25, especially in the last quarter we have seen the margins to margins at 31%. So can we expect the margins to be around 31 to 29 to 31% going forward? And yeah, again volume guidance and guidance with respect to the receivable days. Because I have seen that when we compare it the receivable days, when we Compare it to FY24, it has increased substantially. So going forward, are we. Because it’s the business is mainly B2G, are we expecting the receivable days to increase or will it be stabilized at the current 120 days?
Pawan Daga
So three parts of the question in terms of the overall volume guidance, we will continue to deliver results. Whatever we have delivered so far, we expect to. We have aspirations to cross those levels. With regards to the receivable days, we are confident with the conversations that we’ve had with the authorities that the receivable days will be coming down in the upcoming quarters. There have been certain implementations happening at the various government fronts which has also led to some of these delays. But we are confident of selecting our deal in the coming quarter. And with regards to the margin profile as well, we continue to do lot of cost leadership as well as initiatives to improve the margins which we believe will be also increasing in the upcoming quarters.
Raman Kevi
With respect to receivable days, can you just explain how are the receivable days calculated? I just wanted to understand the resources.
Pawan Daga
Sorry, your voice is not very clear.
Raman Kevi
Was it saying I just want to understand the receivable day cycle from this particular business perspective.
Pawan Daga
So typically the receivables are. You know, when we provide services to the government, we provide submit our invoices to the authorities after the month is over and then they start paying us. The payment happens in different categories based on invoicing as and when the process they complete and then the payment is made. Like I said, in terms of the payment processing overall, there is a integration of some digitized way of payment that is happening which will further improve the collections in the coming quarters is what we are able to understand.
Raman Kevi
I just wanted to know key, what are the number of days like how. What is the number number of days it does it takes to get payment from government? Once you read the invoice.
Pawan Daga
Yeah, I think we’ll discuss this detail first time. You can reach out to Vivek, our head investor institution can share you the details. The connection varies from project to project. We can give those details in detail.
Raman Kevi
Okay. Thank you sir.
operator
Thank you. Before I take the next question, ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Surya Narayan Patra from Philip Capital India Private Limited. Please proceed.
Surya Patra
Yeah, thanks for the Opportunity, sir. And congrats for the good set of operating numbers. So my first question is on the revenue per test this quarter, what we are witnessing there is a back to back two quarter of improvement that we have seen, having seen a kind of a continuous drag for last three quarter. So what can be attributable to this improvement in the revenue for test? Is it because of the retail contributing now in a sizeable manner and hence this one, or it is a mix between the radiology and pathology? What is driving this revenue per test improvement?
Mitesh Dave
Yeah.
Hi, good morning. First of all, thank you, thanks for the compliment. So there are multiple sectors to wherein revenue per test are increasing. Certainly. First is where the retail is getting into the shape and bringing in higher revenue per patient, adding up to the revenue per test going up number one parallel within the PPP also. So there has been through the multiple education and awareness campaigns that had been held with the doctors inside the hospitals and as well as outside. So the patient requirement for the advanced test has also started getting prescribed which in turn both has added to the overall revenue per test increase.
Surya Patra
Okay, since you’re talking about the retained one, is it possible to share that? Okay, what portion of our say fourth quarter revenue would be from the retail side? And what is the revenue share that you are anticipating for let’s say next year, which will be the first full year of your retail operation? And in the opening remark you have just mentioned about the genomic test venturing into. So could you give some sense about that?
Mitesh Dave
Yeah, sure. So to answer that, first of all, yes, in quarter four, quarter four, I should consider it as an one full quarter where we can consider retail stepping into the overall four markets and we have stood close to 3.5% of the overall revenue per se and wherein next year we are looking somewhere near to 5 to 8% around it. And maybe this is our infrastructure, how it behaves with the market dynamics answering around the genomic side. Yes, these are the specialty segment and we are very well positioned to cater those high end specialty needs which is there into the PPP segment as well as into the retail segment.
Because we have our in house capabilities to process and to deal with all sorts of genomics, be it is related to the gynecology or the neuro or the cardiac around.
Surya Patra
Okay, with your permission, can I ask for two more questions please? One is that radiology center, see the projection, what you have given estimates in the projection and similarly for the pathology centers. So it looks like that the focus going ahead is going to be there on the Radiology side and may not be pathology. So this is a kind of a strategic thought process or our tender anticipations are more around the radiology. That is what is our thought process here? If you can clarify that one and second one is that even the accreditation aspect. See what I am seeing that with a 61 number of accredited labs Krishna is having the largest number of accredited labs in the country.
Even better compared to the peers, other peers. So what advantage that we are getting here? Because we are anyway catering to the government, government, hospital, public hospital through accreditation. What incrementally that we are going to get it from it.
Pawan Daga
Two parts of the question. The first part with regards to you know whether focus on the radiology. Currently if you see in the last year there were various pathology projects that Krishna implemented whether it was Assam or Odisha. Whereas in the coming quarters we see a lot of radiology tenders in the pipeline. And therefore we have considered a higher share of growth coming from the radiology business. As I said, if tomorrow any government decides to publish or come up with a passage tender we will look at these opportunities and accordingly the numbers from a prospect perspective could change.
But as of now, yes, we see opportunities coming more on the radiology side. To answer the second part of the question with regards to NABH or NABL acquisitions, it’s a twofold strategy. The first is as I mentioned in my call earlier, Krishna continues to focus on quality. So in spite of being in ppp we always ensure that our centers are anywhere accredited which establishes a level of quality as well as a level of trust and confidence in the system. And that’s basically Krishna’s ethos when it comes to providing quality diagnostics at prices which everyone can afford.
Apart from this, this also brings in a lot of confidence both for the doctors inside the hospital as well as the doctors outside the hospital. And which we’ve seen over the last many years where patients and private walk ins have continued to increase year on year. And the last but not the least is of course wherever, anywhere, any bit acquisitions happen. We are also able to have certain price advantages when it comes to on the PPP side. So it’s a multi pronged strategy. But at the core lies that Krishna is focused on quality and delivering a good quality diagnostic to its patient that comes to its center.
Surya Patra
Thank you. Wish you all the best.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Cheda from Ingredient Asset Management. Please proceed.
Aditya Khemka
Hi, I have two questions. One, if you can talk about the receivables which are at 277 crore existed of Himachala and Karnataka. What would that number be? And the second is on the mix of pathology and radiology today for us and whether the volume growth number that we reported at 38% versus the revenue growth of 16% is attributed to higher pathology mix versus FY24.
Pawan Daga
Hi Pawan, this side. So the receivable for Himachal in Karnataka stand at 150 days in total. So could you repeat the second part of your question?
Aditya Khemka
Can you talk about the pathology and. Radiology mix that we have on FY25 revenue.
Mitesh Dave
Which is at a 50. 50.
Aditya Khemka
Got it. Thank you. And one question was that since we have been releasing exposure in these two states what is the kind of growth that would have had for. In your initial remarks you mentioned three reasons which is BMC and site delay and reduced exposure. What kind of growth would have been sacrifice because of the receivable issue?
Pawan Daga
The growth impact that we would have had impacted because of these is around between 4 to 5%. Again which is a conscious call considering the procedural delays and whatever. But from a upcoming year perspective we see that the growth momentum will be back on its track.
Aditya Khemka
Got it. And the question was on the test performed which shows a 38% increase YoY on slide number three versus the revenue growth of 16%. Wanted to understand if this is because of higher pathology test which would be there’s a higher volume growth but a lower revenue growth.
Pawan Daga
If you see the combination is both. It’s you know, because the business mix is again 50 50. So both on the radiology front as well as on the passenger front the numbers and the volumes are increasing which has led to this kind of revenue growth.
Aditya Khemka
Okay, got it. That’s it.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pranay Khandelwal from Alpha and Fesco. Please proceed.
Pranay Khandelwal
Yeah, hi. Good set of numbers. Congratulations on that. I had two questions. Wanted to know can you give me any providers the share of cash versus. Credit business that we do as in. Wherein tests are being paid for upfront and versus tests for which the government compensates us. That is my first question.
Yash Mutha
The cash component of business is around 20% and the credit is around 80%.
Pranay Khandelwal
Okay. The cash is 20%. I believe this number was higher before 30%. Was it or it was that the private markets.
Yash Mutha
No, no. It varies between 25 to 30%. You know like I said since the pathology contracts have also contributed revenue therefore the credit has also increased.
Pranay Khandelwal
Okay. Okay. So this is this 20% is for FY25 or Q4.
Yash Mutha
Sorry, could you repeat the question?
Pranay Khandelwal
This 20% that you gave for the cash business, this is for FY25 or Q4. FY25. Like is it quarterly or is it.
Yash Mutha
No, this was for the annualized level. This is at the annual level.
Pranay Khandelwal
All right. All right, thanks. And another, just a clarifying question. There is a sale of fixed assets. Of about 15 crores. So have we closed down any centers and sold off equipment? I mean does this relate to BMC or something like that? Like, can you give a clarification on that?
Pawan Daga
Hi Pawan. This side, we have sold one or two equipments which the tender tenure for one of our project has been completed which is very small in overall size of our business. So that is by the reason this sale of assets was taken place.
Pranay Khandelwal
Okay, so two centers closed down and which state? Exactly. If you can give that.
Pawan Daga
So this is one is in Madhya Pradesh and one is in Tamil Nadu.
Pranay Khandelwal
Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dwanil Desai from Total Capital. Please proceed.
Dhwanil Desai
Hi. You know, good afternoon everyone. So my first question is on receivable. I think you know, on this receivable side, you know, we have been, it’s been a strictly number and for last 2, 3/4 we have been hoping that we will recover from, especially from Himachal. It’s been going on since the elections there. So what is the bottleneck there and what gives us confidence that things will normalize, you know, going forward in near future.
Yash Mutha
So if you see these are two large states in terms of HP and Karnataka only compared to all the other states. And both the states, you know, if you look at it from the NHL funds allocation and certain procedures, digital aspects is where we are experiencing the delays. Just to give you a perspective, there have been, you know, issues with nhm, you know, giving down the funds to different states because of certain procedural requirements. And this is one of the reasons that we understand when these two states are experiencing challenges. And as I said the as of now, whatever you understood is, you know, they have to get certain things in place because of the digitization way of payment that is going to happen where it is going to be through RBI normal accounts and the both the authorities are working to get those systems in place.
And hopefully then, you know, the receivables, what we understand will come down coming.
Dhwanil Desai
Okay, second question is on, you know, Maharashtra Radiology. You know, if I understand from the numbers that you have given, you know, probably we have implemented two more, you know, in this quarter and a Large part of that is yet to be implemented through probably FY26. So two parts to the question. One is that what are the challenges? You know we are going slow on the execution side. And second, you know, going into FY26, you know the growth essentially will come from the younger centers which will grow at a higher rate but you know, the mature which will grow at a lower rate.
So kind of should we factor in a much lower growth of 15 odd percent rather than 20, 25% that we were targeting and how should we look at the margin?
Pawan Daga
So hi Pawan, this side, the first part of your question there, this Maharashtra City MRI projects. So the delays as Yash has already mentioned because of the site handover and the site delay and the power connection and the readiness of an infrastructure. So the sites are ready. Certain sites are ready. So in couple of quarters we expecting approximately 15 centers to be live in first half of the year in next financial year at Maharashtra City MRI projects. So now coming to your second part, the center’s maturity in the radiology side takes approximately one year to two years to mature.
One and a half year onwards we see them good traction. So yeah, centers which has been deployed in last this year first half and the second half of this year will start maturing in the couple of quarters and maybe in the third quarter quarter of this financial year. So we try to maintain as our growth things which are there which will further improve or so on.
Yash Mutha
And just in terms of, you know what Pawan just mentioned, the growth aspiration or the numbers that we see will of course are aspiration to surpass the growth that we’ve given this year and continue on the growth momentum. Given these implementations that are expected to roll out in the upcoming quarters as well as you know, both on the retail front, we have strong confidence of surpassing the numbers that we’ve delivered so far.
Dhwanil Desai
And margins.
Yash Mutha
The margins will continue to improve. As I said, there are different initiatives that we’ve done at the, you know, both in terms of operations, in terms of the businesses that we are entering into and we expect the margins to improve going forward as well.
Dhwanil Desai
Okay, so just to sum it up, essentially we are targeting 16% plus growth and similar or better margins going into FY26. Right?
Yash Mutha
Yes.
Dhwanil Desai
Okay. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kabra from pkd. Please proceed.
Parikshit Kabra
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. So just a few clarificatory questions. I’m not sure if I heard them right or not. Do you say that the HP and Karnataka receivable days were 150 days, is that right?
Mitesh Dave
It is 150 plus kind of days for Karnataka and HP.
Parikshit Kabra
Right. Because the reason I’m asking is that at a company level we had 140, but the rest of the states here at 90. So how does this add up?
Mitesh Dave
No, no. So I maybe misinterpreted this thing. So our outstanding with Himachal Pradesh and Karnataka in the range of 140 to 150 crores.
Parikshit Kabra
140 to 150 crores. Okay, okay, okay. That makes sense. Okay. Secondly, again, I’m not sure if I missed it earlier in the conversation did we say we’re not participating in the BNC tender?
Mitesh Dave
So as I said earlier, we had won the tender, but when the authorities changed the tender scope and they asked for rebidding, there were certain conditions, including the turnaround time as well as, you know, budget capping, which in our opinion is not a very profitable tender to pursue. And therefore we decided not to take it up.
Parikshit Kabra
Got it? Clear. And lastly, can you give us. I understand that there’s a lot of balls in the air right now about the receivables from Karnataka and Himachal, but do you guys have a target in mind as to what will be your receivable days at the end of Q1? FY20, 26.
Mitesh Dave
FY26?
Parikshit Kabra
Yeah. Like basically next quarter, what will be your.
Yash Mutha
Yeah, we are hoping it to be in the range of about 100 odd days. You know, it will come down significantly. In fact, the upcoming quarter is where we expect the receivables to come down significantly. But just to give you on a ballpark basis, we expect it to be in the range of about 100 odd days. 90 to 100 days by
Parikshit Kabra
Q1 we. Are talking about, right?
Yash Mutha
Yes, Q1 is where we are expecting, you know, sizable receivables to come through and which will further, you know, come to this coming quarters.
Parikshit Kabra
So by the end of this quarter. You’Ll be at 100 days receivable. That’s great. All right,
Yash Mutha
100 days is at the end of FY26, but in the coming quarters we’re expecting significant portion of our receivables to be collected.
Parikshit Kabra
Understood. But do you have a number for the coming quarter? Is that what I’m trying to understand? Because today we are doing 40.
Yash Mutha
Yeah. As I said in the coming quarters, since, you know, the discussions are going on, it will be too early for me to give an exact number, but hopefully, you know, we share updates as and when These things the money gets.
Parikshit Kabra
Okay, understood. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Yash Mutha
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Subrata Sarkar from Mount Intra Finance. Please proceed.
Subrata Sarkar
Yeah, so my question on the Rajasthan 10, Rajasthan state, basically whether this, what is the progress on the dispute? Is there any progress on like any like light up on there if you highlight that.
Yash Mutha
So the matter is currently in the court as well and we are hopeful that you know, there will be an announcement.
Subrata Sarkar
Okay. And sir, any, any big like few standards that are in our pipeline. If you can highlight on that a little bit, give some at least quality direction for other states or.
Yash Mutha
So. There are various opportunities that you’re working but the details we won’t be able to provide. You know, because of the competition intensity. There are various opportunities that.
Subrata Sarkar
Okay, Moishe.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhagwat from Prosperity Wealth Management Private Limited. Please proceed.
Bhagwat
Thank you for the opportunity. Could you please provide an update on the status of the income tax demand order received for previous years and your comment on the same?
Yash Mutha
Yes. So the demand orders were received and like we mentioned all these. After going through the merits and facts of the case, we have a very strong opinion that these are all which we can defend. And therefore we filed an appeal with the authorities in rejecting these claims and the process is now on when it goes to the appeal stage.
Bhagwat
Okay. And we are hoping that we will not have that much liability as the demand raised.
Yash Mutha
Yes, absolutely.
Bhagwat
Okay. Okay. My second question is like just a fundamental question. Despite our case prices being significantly lower compared to our peers, our EBITDA margin is similar to them. Could you please comment on the main reason for that?
Yash Mutha
So that’s the uniqueness of a business model based on, you know, the different cost leadership we have, the model that we build. In fact, you know, I would put this question, if you compare the other players in the market in spite of higher prices, have the margins that we are able to deliver. So Krishna today has created a unique business model which leverages the strength of technology led solutions, the unique PPP driven model as well as the various cost leaderships that we have built over the years which allows us to have these sustainable margins.
Bhagwat
Okay, so this mostly related to the cost efficiency that you need.
Yash Mutha
Correct.
Bhagwat
Okay. Okay, thank you for that.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepali Bansal from Ventura Enterprises. Please proceed.
Deepali Bansal
My first question is regarding the revenue bifurcation. Would you be able to provide us what is the revenue bifurcation between matured and semi matured businesses.
Yash Mutha
I think these are details which we will be able to provide offline. Vivek will reach out to you to share the details.
Deepali Bansal
Okay, next question would be would you be able to explain the whole retail business structure like what is the touch point, what is B2B and what are exclusive stores? Because I’m not able to understand like how is this going to work for us?
Mitesh Dave
Yeah. Hi. Morning Mitesh. Decide. So entire detail structure is Basically it’s a 360 degree structure where we are moving into the space where we are well poised for our existing ecosystem of PPP and we are trying to leverage all the dimensions right from B2B2C as well as the other business model along with the various verticals within the B2B and B2C. So while in one of the previous question I mentioned is just want to understand the areas where it is direct to the consumer falls under the B2C. The areas which is directly with the client of B2B touchpoints are the one where we are having active revenue contribution coming up from the clients and network is the one which are exclusive to us.
Deepali Bansal
Okay. Okay, thank you. My final question would be what is the management feeling like, what does the future look like? Are there any problems that we are facing, any logistical issue, any bidding issues, anything that can cause a problem to the company in the next maybe let’s say three years or three months.
Yash Mutha
So as I said in my call as well today, if you look at it from the fundamentals of what Krishna has built, we do not see any problems in the business. Our business continues to thrive. We’ve been demonstrating growth which is almost higher than what the industry is able to deliver at prices which are almost more than half of the prices that the market is offering. Our margins are sustainable and they continue to improve. And along with this we also have forward into retail with the network expansion going almost four times within just one year.
So from an overall model and business perspective, as well as the outlook that we have with so many centers that are under implementation which will further add to our revenues and our margins in the upcoming quarters. In fact, I see this as a strong fundamentals that we’ve built and we look forward to harnessing this in the coming quarters.
Deepali Bansal
All right, sir, thank you.
Yash Mutha
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Podar from Sapphire Capital. Please proceed.
Deepak Poddar
Yeah, I’m audible, sir. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Thank you very much for this opportunity. So just I wanted to to understand on the receivable parts which you mentioned around 140 to 150 crores to HP and Karnataka. So do you see any risk of any kind of provisioning coming out of these receivables in future? So, so any, any kind of comment will be helpful.
Yash Mutha
No, no, no. If you see both from, you know, the process that we follow in terms of collecting our receivables, the kind of discipline that we have, we do not see any risk in terms of having provision because not only us, even the auditors have evaluated this.
And based on whatever communications we’ve had with the authority so far, we are confident of recovering our entire dues. As I said, these are only two states which have had a certain challenge. But otherwise we do not see any risk even on the current HQ Karnataka receivable that we have. Hopefully in the coming quarters we expect the amount to be recovered in full.
Pawan Daga
Till the date whatever we have built we have received till the date we have zero bad debt in our books. Or if we’re talking about the provisioning part based on the accounting standard and ECN we have provided whatever the provision is required as per accounting standard and the company policies which is already taken in the PNL part.
Deepak Poddar
Okay, I got it. Understood. And my second question is around about your retail business, B2C. I mean is it margin accretive? I mean the margins there is higher than your other B2B business.
Mitesh Dave
Yes, certainly looking to the pricing at which we are playing or moving into the market, it has a better margins.
Deepak Poddar
How much better? I mean can you.
Mitesh Dave
Despite being, you know, almost 30, 35% lesser to the peer peers.
Deepak Poddar
Okay. Okay. So how, how much is the margin differential between. I mean if your company level margin currently is in the range of 26, 27% excluding the other income, so their margin would be what? 30, 35%.
Mitesh Dave
Like since you know that it’s just two full quarters from which we have entered out into the retail so basis at the upcoming times wherein we’ll able to evaluate B2B B2C contribution and within that various vertical how it contributes. Because margin at each vertical and line of business it changes. So it’s too early to predict that way. However it is better than the existing one. But how much it is is going to be the future story.
Deepak Poddar
Understood. Fair enough. And pricing also is higher than than what you offer in your PPP model, right?
Mitesh Dave
Yeah, certainly it is way better than the RPP model. But. And despite that then we are still 30 35% discounted or I should say lower than the peers.
Deepak Poddar
Okay, understood. And given the outlook that we have in terms of touch points I think 4,000 to 10,000 kind of a range for FY27. So how do you see this B2C revenue mix over next maybe two years or five years. Whatever. I mean some understanding would be helpful.
Mitesh Dave
Yeah. So B2C will always be at the forefront when it’s going to be the revenue mix in the overall retail space. And it’s always these apprehension or the aspirations to be somewhere near to 7030 B2C B2B mix. And that’s where we are currently working.
Deepak Poddar
Towards 30% B2C revenue mix in five years is. Would that be a fair assumption?
Mitesh Dave
7030 B2C is to B2B.
Deepak Poddar
So B2C we are targeting 70%.
Mitesh Dave
We are targeting at 70% and that’s where our entire efforts and the individuals are.
Deepak Poddar
Okay. And currently it is only about. I mean this year we are targeting 5 to 8%. Right. FY26. Okay. So okay. But your B2B will also grow. I mean but B2C will grow much faster than your B2B so. So. So you are in massaging such a high increase in your mix rate.
Mitesh Dave
Perfectly.
Deepak Poddar
I got it. That’s very helpful sir. I mean that’s it from my side all the way back to you.
Mitesh Dave
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag from Keynote Capital. Please proceed.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. Most of my questions are answered. I just have two questions for now. One is once you expect the receivable recovery from Himachal Pradesh and Karnataka are you expecting it to reduce the working capital debt that we have by the same amount or.
Yash Mutha
Of course, yes. So as I said considering the discussions we expect the receivables to be collected in the coming quarters which will also ease up on the working capital requirements.
Unidentified Participant
And secondly as one mentioned that this year our radio and patho mix is 50. 50. Could you just let me know what it was in the last year?
Yash Mutha
Last year it was 60. 40. 60 is radiology and 40 was pathology.
Unidentified Participant
That is it for my sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amrita from Wealth managers. Please proceed.
Amruta Deherkar
Thank you. For this opportunity I have just few questions. One is regarding the number of labs as in the presentation we’ve mentioned that the number of labs as of March are 117. Whereas as of December it was 121. So I would like to know which regions reduction and or are we pertaining to BMC purchase. And my second question is regarding the CapEx. The CapEx is found at 111 crores compared to 193 crores last year for FY24. So could you please give.
Pawan Daga
Hi Pawan. This side we have discontinued few labs, smaller labs in our different regions because of operational efficiency and basically in the cost measures and optimize the lab efficiency at a bigger scale. Second part of your question which is in 111 crore for capex which is mainly for the new centers of radiology in Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra and also one is in Delhi the MRI and the city and certain portion of pathology collection center in Assam Collection centers and the Orissa collection centers. These are the CAPEX outlay for the year.
Amruta Deherkar
Sir, what kind of capex do we have for the collection centers? If you can give some idea.
Pawan Daga
So a collection center is the basic infrastructure which is required to have a refrigerator, maybe the basic test equipment related to the testing and that’s it.
Amruta Deherkar
As such, just to add one more
Mitesh Dave
aspect for collection centers there won’t be much of any CAPEX requirement would be there because we are asset moving with the asset light model. So there won’t be any as such and.
Pawan Daga
Related to our center under PPP where the volume and the number of collection centers are in the range of thousand. So if we add up in total so the capital outflow is there but at the individual collection centers there is no huge amount of CAPEX is required.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddhartha from Capris investment. Please proceed.
Siddhartha
So. Hi sir, so just I mean I’ve got a couple of questions. One, I mean what the. I mean in the last conquer as well we have given, you know, you have given certain targets and we have milled it. So just wanted to understand you know what exactly, you know, what exactly is the reason behind you know, we not delivering upon our promises earlier.
Pawan Daga
Yes. So I. Like I mentioned earlier when we had given the guidance there were certain, you know like the BMC tender we are already won and we were expecting that to roll out. But when the government changed certain scope they increased. They brought in conditions like turnaround time of 4 hours as well as some budgetary caps with this decided not to pursue that opportunity. Along with it there were certain delays in our site ramp up and of course you know conscious decisions to reduce the business in certain areas where the receivables were staggering up. So if you look at it, it was a conscious call on all these fronts where we just didn’t want to increase or do business which is not value accreditable, which does not really create profitable Margins for us and therefore there was fell short of the guidance.
However, if you see on an overall basis we’ve still been delivering a good growth rate for the company as a whole.
Siddhartha
Got it, sir. And again and also could you give us some breakup about. I mean breakup of what is the revenue per center for both your radiology as well as pathology segment.
Pawan Daga
So those details we’ll be providing offline. Vivek can share the details with you.
Siddhartha
Okay. And also last question. So our return metrics or ROCE and roe, you know looks, you know, quite stressed right now. So going forward, I mean with our B2C business kicking in. So do you think, I mean what do you think? You know this figure, this figure might look like, you know, going forward.
Yash Mutha
Sure. So when you look at the ROC and ROEs or these ratios, you know, that is from a point in time because there’s a certain investment that happens from a financial statement perspective whereas the commensurate revenue has not come through. For example today there are a lot of additions that have happened into our gross block but the revenues will come in the subsequent quarters. So from that perspective it does look separate. But if you look at it even from an overall balance sheet perspective, the ROCs and ROEs have been improving year on year, quarter and quarter in the upcoming quarters as the business matures as the younger center start matrix, ensuring they will further contribute to the improving margins.
And yet with a blended on the retail side we expect the margins to improve as well. But retail will take its own time because as Mitesh pointed out, we are currently at the infrastructure stage setting up the different touch points and as they continue to improve and contribute revenues that will certainly improve the margins going forward as well. And the return issue therefore.
Siddhartha
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Surya Narayanpatra from Philip Capital India Private Limited. Please proceed.
Surya Patra
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity sir. Once again just one question that I wanted to clarify. What is our investment plan now that we are having for FY26 and the target areas of investment? Because I do believe given the asset light model what we have recently adopted so led by, that possibly our investment requirement for the following period would come down meaningfully. So if you can give some sense about it.
Yash Mutha
So From a overall capex perspective, whilst we still have about 150 crores of investments. Yes. But from a cash flow perspective, given this different model that we put in place, the requirement to deploy upfront capital will not be as significant and we continue to leverage different models to bring in the asset light model into place. But given the various tender that we already have one and which are sizable tenders at very good rates, these investments in at least for the next year would be in the range of about.
Surya Patra
100 to 150 crores and practical tests outgrowth less than 100 crores.
Yash Mutha
Sorry.
Surya Patra
Yes. Practical cash outflow.
Yash Mutha
Yes. Significant.
operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. Considering time constant we would not be able to take any further questions. Now for closing comments I hand the conference to Mr. Yashmutta. Over to you sir.
Yash Mutha
Thank you. Thank you everyone for joining 25 earnings call. Hopefully we were able to address to all the queries. If any questions remain unanswered please feel free to connect with our investor relations team’s head Mr. Vivek Jain and looking forward to interacting with you again in the future quarters. Thank you.
operator
On behalf of Equeria Securities Private Limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.