Krishna Institute of Medical Sciences Limited (NSE: KIMS) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Aug. 07, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Sachin Ashok Salvi — Krishna Institute of Medical Sciences Limited
Abhinay Bollineni — Chief Executive Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Rahul Jewani — Analyst
Damayanti Kerai — Analyst
Eknath Shinde — Analyst
Rahul Jewani — Analyst
Nancy Yadav — Analyst
Vinupriya Paramal — Analyst
Abdul Kadir Puranwala — Analyst
Harish Bihani — Analyst
Nikhil Mathur — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Kim’s Hospital Q1FY26 earnings conference call hosted by IFL Capital Services Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jivani from IIHN Capital Services Ltd. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Rahul Jewani — Analyst
Thank you. Ashruti. Hi. Good morning everyone. This is Rahul from IFL Capital. I welcome you all to the first quarter honest conference call of Kim’s Hospitals. From Kim’s, we have with us today Dr. Master Rao Bolineni, Founder and Managing Director, Dr. Abhinay Bolineni, Executive Director and CEO and Mr. Sachin Salvi, CFO. Over to you sir for your opening. Comments.
Sachin Ashok Salvi — Krishna Institute of Medical Sciences Limited
Greetings and a hearty welcome to you all. Next week we are going to celebrate 78 Independence Day. The air is full of forever and Independence Day and other ensuing festivals. You will be pleased to know that this is our Silver Jubilee year. We started our journey in 2000 with our first hospital in my native town of Nellur in Andhra Pradesh with our objective of providing affordable and accessible health care. Encouraged by the overwhelming response, we expanded to other towns and opened our flagship hospital at Sikhindrabad in 2004. Today we have 25 centers across five states with a bed capacity of 8,000 and a strong workforce of 20,000 plus.
And all set to grow further in the near future. All this is made possible due to the trust and confidence of patients arising out of our clinical excellence outcomes and latest technology. And of course support of you investors. Let me now rush to the present the financial and operational highlights. Total revenue of INR 879crore. A growth of 26.8% year on year and a 9.6% on quarter on quarter basis. EBITDA of INR 200crore. A growth of 8.5% on year on year and a deeprowth of 1.4% on a quarter on quarter basis. EBITda margin at 22.7% versus 26.6% in quarter one financial year 25 and 25.3% in quarter four financial year 25 backed at INR 85crore in quarter one FY26 against INR 95crores and INR 106crores in quarter one 25 and quarter four 25 respectively.
Consolidated EPS for quarter one FY26 of INR 1.96 A deep growth of 9.2% on year on year basis. Cash and cash equivalents includes cash bank balance deposits with maturity less than 12 months and investment in mutual funds. INR 70 crores as on Q1FY26 Q1FY26 Financial Highlights A consolidated 1 A consolidated revenue from operations of INR 872 crores, a growth of 26.6% on year on year and a 9.4% on quarter on quarter basis. Consolidated EBITDA pre India s of INR 194 crore a growth of 9.8% on year on year and a degrowth of 1.5% on quarter on quarter basis.
Consolidated EBITDA pre India is excluding other income of INR187 crore, a growth of 8.6% and a deep growth of 2.9% on year on year and quarter on quarter basis respectively. The New Units the quarter was packed with action. We launched our Pane unit and it has made a promising beginning. We also launched our two units at Bangalore. We have done the Puja in Madhyapur and Electronic City with a bed capacity of nearly 800 beds. Both the units put together and may be operationalized in the quarter two and almost all the licenses and everything has come so we are in a position to start very soon and our new units in Kanur and Kolam in Kerala are receiving increasing response.
We also opened our new units in Sidamdara at Ishakhapatnam along with fertility center, Cuddles, childcare and a specialty unit. We also opened 120 beds, 100 beds in Sri Kapalam the new facility. Maybe in the next couple of quarter we may be opening in Oncology in Anantapur and Humboldt. So these are all our new things which we planned are going in a proper manner, maybe one or two months getting delayed because of the licenses to get from the organization, the governments and we also have very good clinical achievements we achieved and this last quarter a lot more are there with all these clinical achievements and we are growing much faster starting from a one year baby to an 85 year old male and with all these clinical achievements there is a proper growth which are going to come up and these stories make the achievements that much interaction with international experts is a regular phenomena at our hospital.
Last week Professor Kelly Hunt Professor And Chef Department of Breast Surgical Oncology the University of Texas Maryland Anderson Cancer Center Postal visit Kims and delivered a lecture on advancing surgery through collaboration and science. There was a lively academic reinteraction and she greatly appreciate the expertise and latest infrastructure. So I come to now assuring you of our continued efforts to expand our reach and pursue excellence for even better performance in future. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Damyanti K. Rai from hsbc. Please go ahead.
Damayanti Kerai
Hi, good morning and thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on your new units related cost. So it appears that the losses which you have booked from these new units in 1Q is high. So how should we see like especially is something which I which I understand it contributed towards the losses. So if you can share how do you see operations scaling up at these units and what kind of losses you are expecting for this year and FY27.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
So as far as. So we have five hospitals which are. New in the system and which are contributing to these small margin or losses. So coming to Maharashtra cluster we have NASIC and Thane. The ramp up at NASIC has been a little slow because of tires from insurance, insurance and corporate. But otherwise if you look at the cash business ramp up it is quite decent and we are pretty happy with the response so far. But there are some losses from the Nasik unit which we feel neutralized by the end of Q2. As far as Tane is concerned, the ramp up has been significantly good. The month of July we closed revenue of 9 crores from the Thane facility which is much better than what we had expected.
We see a very positive trend as far as Tane is concerned. So by end of Q3 we should neutralize the losses from Kane as well and it will be EBITDA neutral. In the Kerala cluster we have two units. One is Kannur which is EBITDA positive. We have Kullam which is. There was an ebitda drag in Q1 which also was because we were doing a lot of renovation work. But Q2 we should neutralize the Ebitda office from the Kolam facility which is commissioned in Kannur and from Q3 onwards it will start contributing to EBITDA.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay. So all these put together and plus two new units in Bangalore which you are. Which you’re going to start in next few days or so. What kind of losses we should baking for this year from the new yield.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
As far as Q2 is concerned I. Think from both Nashik and Tane we should have a loss of around 8 to 10 crores in Q2. And as far as Kerala is concerned we should have it neutralized. So there won’t be much losses. Maybe 1 to 1 crore at that. And as far as Bangalore is concerned because we’ll start commission the hospital now we got our pollution control board license. Yes. Yesterday. In another week we should get our KPME license. A week to 10 days. And once we get it by towards the end of August we should commission both the hospitals. So that will be another 10 crore drags for the month of September. 10 to 15.
Damayanti Kerai
10 to 15 crore. And these Bangalore units should we assume cost break even within say two to three quarters of operation or it could. Take slightly longer
Sachin Ashok Salvi
because we should assume. September is the first full September month. Is the full month of operations. Given that obviously will take time to get all these licenses. So from there 12 months we should positively break even in both the facilities in Bangalore.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay. So within 12 months say you are going fully operation from September. So 12 months from there onwards.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Correct.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay. My second question is on your mature cluster of Telangana. So there we have seen improvement in ARPO over last I think a few years. However my question is that the IP volume and occupancy looks more rangebound. So how should we do, how should we look at these two KPIs because. I understand. Hello.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
What did you say about occupancy? I couldn’t follow that.
Damayanti Kerai
Yeah. So I’m saying we have seen improvement in RPOB in Telangana cluster hospitals. But occupancy and IP volume if we look at I think last few quarters number they look more range boundaries. So how should we look at these two metrics? That was my question. Thank you.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Telanghara like we said is a very mature cluster. So we’re still growing at a 5,6% volume growth. On a year. On year basis. On a year. On year basis. So which is in line with what we predict in which Kundapur hospital getting commissioned next year and some expansion happening in the Gachubati hospital. We should see next year we should see good volume growth in the Kalandanak system. But since it’s a mature cluster we’re not anticipating growth beyond a 5, 6% kind of a volume growth.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay, so mid single digit growth for a mature cluster is something which we should assume.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
We are running out of capacity in most of these facilities. When Kundapur comes in and the new Sikhindabad comes in, we will then get more beds that are operational.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay, thank you. I’ll get back in the queue for more questions.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Ignat Shinde, an individual HNI investor. Please go ahead.
Eknath Shinde
Good morning to the tim’s team and I just want to understand a telescopic view. My question is as TIMS expand its footprint across Tier 1 and Tier Tier. 2 and Tier 3 cities, how are. You leveraging the digital health platforms with AI? With AI or remote care models to enhance the stability, the scalability and patients outcomes. And could these tech led in a innovations become a structural mode for kids. Over the next three to five years? Yeah. Thank you.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
I think we’re using AI and technology. To help improve patient outcome and patient care monitoring within the hospital. I think as a company we’re very focused in delivering tertiary and quaternary care and we do not want to digest from. We will use technology, embrace technology as much as we can within the hospital. But the key focus is to get to tier two, tier three, build capacity because there’s a lot of unmet capacity demand and focus on being able to service, do tertiary and quarterly care. But embrace as much technology as we can. We’ve always invested very high on technology, both on AI related stuff as well as equipment, new equipment that are coming.
Eknath Shinde
Okay, great. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Rahul Jivani from IIFL Capital Services. Please go ahead.
Rahul Jewani
Yeah, thanks sir. So the EBITDA losses which we indicated from these new hospitals in Tupio, that number I think would be closer to 20 to 25 crore for TUPU. So can you also quantify the combined losses which we had from these new hospitals in one Q Just so that we better understand in terms of how these losses are moving from 1Q to 2Q.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
So the combined losses in Q1 is 21 crores.
Rahul Jewani
Okay, so this 21 crore hit you have already seen. So the incremental hit in 2Q then would be around let’s say 5 crore kind of a number.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
5 to 10 crores. Because there will be some improvement in the Maharashtra cluster, Kerala cluster, but also drag from the Karnataka.
Rahul Jewani
Sure. Dr. B. And Dr. B, you said that NASA ramp up obviously has been slow. So because of insurance delays. So when do you expect These insurance contracts to get formed up in Nasik. Because I think Nasik we commissioned last year in September. So yeah, apparently.
Unidentified Speaker
See the real commissioning started only from January, Rahul. So last month we have ramped up to almost 7 crores of revenue. So we’re pretty happy with the progress made as far as the cash as a payer. But with insurance and CGHS which both account for typically 60% of the volumes in most hospitals in that cluster, we are expecting both impairments to be done over the next three to six months time.
Rahul Jewani
Okay, so. So the 7 crore revenue for Nasik is just from the cash business. So with these incremental insurance contract the business should further ramp up.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Correct?
Rahul Jewani
Sure, Doctor, mine. And on Sangli also, did we book any losses for the quarter or. Sangli? We did not have much of losses.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Since Sangli is an OMM contract and we just get the revenue. We get a revenue share. But when you look at Sangi independently we have. We had no losses in Sangri for the full quarter.
Rahul Jewani
Okay, and what was this quantum of revenue which you booked from Sanglee this quarter?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
4.3 crores.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. So Dr. Binnay, can you just guide us in terms of how we. Because we have some of these on and contracts. So I think in the core Telangana cluster. Telangana AP cluster as well, I think Guntur is again an O and M context. So for these O and M contracts for which the capacity doesn’t get added but we will be seeing this revenue accretion. So across all these O and M hospitals, what kind of revenue number should we be factoring in? Let’s say from the next 12 to 24 month perspective.
Abhinay Bollineni
So we’ll start sharing that detail separately. Rahul, in the presentation from next time onwards we got that feedback from some investors. We’ll put O and M revenue separately from. Okay. Sure. Sure. Dr. Amina, I will join by. Bhushan. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. I repeat, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. Our next question is from the line of Karan from GE Shipping family office. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you for taking my question and congratulations. A good set of numbers. But I just wanted to double click on the Kerala cluster. As we are aware there’s a brand already present in that cluster. I just wanted to understand what our strategy will be going forward. Attracting better volume growth in that particular geography. So that’s our first question.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
I think the state as such is a pretty large state. We have seen good volume growth in both our facilities and competition is not present in all the districts of Kerala. And if you look at where all we are commissioning hospitals like in Kolam, we don’t see as I in Karnatakalli, we have no competition from any large corporate to show that we’re setting up. We have no competition. So there is enough space for 2, 3 players to coexist and be able to scale significantly.
Unidentified Participant
Ankhar, from that perspective, since we are a relatively newer brand in that state, if you can just talk about the initiatives that we’ve taken to reach out to the residents and the geography were there so as to make a brand presence.
Abhinay Bollineni
We’re always focusing on those micro markets where there’s unmet demand and when we go there with the right infrastructure, right technology and the right model to attract talent, the talent themselves attract a lot of patients and their old patients and new patients and seeing the infrastructure, there’s a lot of unmet demand in those micro markets. So a lot of these BTL activities lead to increase in football in these hospitals. Hospitals.
Unidentified Participant
And sir, just one last question on the Bangalore Karnataka cluster. We’re commissioning 800 beds there and you mentioned there’ll be you know, some EBITDA losses that will kick in from Q2 onwards. So sir, at what occupancy level do we feel that you know, in 10 months we can see ETA margins, you know, kind of utilized there and you know, help us in the consolidated profile?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah, I think around a good 30%, 30, 40% occupancy. We should become a bit neutral, 20, 30% documentation become EBIT neutral. It depends on the initial doctor cost. And the timeline in which the doctors are joining in.
Unidentified Participant
And from the perspective of talent hiring etc, we are already I’m assuming on on track for that. So that talent hiring for phase one.
Unidentified Speaker
Of the growth were pretty shorted. We just once the licenses are in place those doctors will have to start resigning from their current organization and then come on board. So that onboarding will take two, three months or one, two months. That’s where we are foreseeing some losses. And because also Bangalore is a heavily insurance dependent market so there could be some initial delay in ramp up because we have to get the impairments and that’s a time consuming process. But overall the kind of talent we’ve been able to attract, I think we’re pretty confident within 12 months we should neutralize EBITDA losses from both the hospitals and naive.
Unidentified Participant
That’s great to hear sir. One last question. If I can squeeze in from the 800 beds are we looking at opening them in a phased manner? And if so, what? What would be the timeline of that?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Sorry, in which. In bang manner.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. In Bangalore
Sachin Ashok Salvi
we will only commission 5075. Beds in each hospital to begin with. And as we ramp up those occupancies, we’ll add more beds. Okay.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you and best of luck.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Nancy Yadav from Allegro. Please go ahead.
Nancy Yadav
Hi. Thank you for taking my question. Just two short questions. Firstly, I wanted to reconfirm the net debt number. I think I missed that part.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
So the net debt as on the 30th of June 2025 is. 2023.
Nancy Yadav
2023. Okay. 2020. All right. Thank you, sir. And I also wanted to ask that like you mentioned The EBITDA losses are 21 to us. So could you give an approximate of how much of this is coming from Thane? Or is there any other asset also adding to this?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
So we have Tane, Nasik and Kolam. Adding to this Tane would be around 11 crores. Because we had only one month. But we commissioned the hospital from May. Nasheek will be around 7 crores. And then you have Kannur will be around 3 and a half crore. Crores.
Nancy Yadav
Sure. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touchstone telephone. Our next question is from the line of Vinupatya Paramal from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Vinupriya Paramal
Hi. Good morning. A Couple of questions. One Suka column. 120 beds. Have we commissioned it? Because I haven’t seen any addition in the AP cluster.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah, we commissioned it in Q2 July 1st. July 1st. Q2. It will come up.
Vinupriya Paramal
Okay. Second, Dr. Abhinay, what are the plans of expansion beyond FY27? Because right now all the announced projects are ending by Q4, FY27. So your voice is not very audible. Could you speak a little? Hello, sir. Hello. Hello. Is it better now?
operator
Yes, now it’s clear. Please go ahead.
Vinupriya Paramal
Okay, thanks. I was wondering about expansion plans beyond FY27. Now all our announced plans are now getting commissioned by end of FY27. So have you started working on more greenfield projects? And what sort of areas are you looking at?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
We are exploring more opportunities. But the focus area and the clusters remain the same. More work in Karnataka, Kerala, Maharashtra and obviously a lot of brownfield addition in Telangana and Andhra. But our intent is to first stabilize a lot of the greenfield hospitals that got commissioned this year or will get commissioned this year. So towards the end of the year when we are more stable from all of these operations, we will then start closing on a lot of the other greenfield hospital which will anyways take three, four years.
And that’s a good enough time for us to stabilize operations.
Vinupriya Paramal
Got it. And one last question. In these new hospitals that are coming up say Thana, Bangalore etc. When you go for insurance empanelment, is. There a rate negotiation that happens or. Is there a standard slab which applies to that mini bedded hospital and it just gets fixed?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
There is a rate negotiation that happens.
Vinupriya Paramal
Okay, got it. Thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is a follow up question and it’s from Damianti Krai from hsbc. Please go ahead.
Damayanti Kerai
Hi. Given your experience in Nasik for some delays in insurance impairment etc, what are your expectations for Bangalore to get the intended coverage which you’re looking for? Like how much time it might take? Yeah, yeah.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Bangalore, Nashid will all take similar time. It will take us anywhere between 9 to 12 months for full impairments to be completed. That’s. That’s the typical timeline that we’re seeing even in Thane. Nine to 12 months we should safely assume for full impediment.
Damayanti Kerai
So say in Bangalore you are starting in September. So initially we should assume it’s more cash patient you might be catering and then as you build up on the incident in panel one part that will come gradually.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Correct? Correct.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay, that’s helpful. My second question is in under today’s cluster. So in last few quarters again because of your focus was improving mix etc. It has, it has gone up from the historical level. But when we look at its R form it’s still, you know there is meaningful gap between Andhra Pradesh cluster and the network level R form. So do you think there is more room to cover up this gap and what could help you to achieve that?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
I don’t think that gap will ever get bridged. These are two independent micro markets and the paying potential of the patients in that cluster is only so much. We will never be able to get to a Telangana or a Maharashtra kind of rpobs. Even within Maharashtra the rpobs in Thane and Nasik are very different. So I think we’ll have to look at it from a micro market point of view.
Damayanti Kerai
Sure. But right now I think you are at 24,000 or so. 24, 25,000 RPOC. So if we look AP cluster on its own we can Assume some more growth at this number at 25,000.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah, there’s definitely growth potential growth in the current from where it is currently. But it may not get to a 69,000 like we see in Palazzo because case mix is also going to change. Oncology is going to become a significant part. We’re focusing on trying to reduce Alos economy in that each of these districts are also improving. Brain potential is improving. It will definitely improve, but they will.
Damayanti Kerai
Sure. And I think oncology is one segment which you are focusing a lot to improve mix in the AP cluster. So has it been launched across all the units there or you have some room to improve them?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
They’re only commissioned oncology in one of our hospitals. The others are yet to get commissioned.
Damayanti Kerai
Okay, okay. So that is yet to come. Okay, thank you. Thank you for your response. I’ll get back in the queue.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Abdul Kadir Puranwala from ICICI Security. Please go ahead.
Abdul Kadir Puranwala
Thank you for the opportunity. So first question is with regards to your AP cluster. So if you look at the margins for this particular quarter, there have been some bit of a softening. So can you help us understand why that happened this quarter?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
So we have had the pre operative expenses on some of the Cetakulam hospitals which got commissioned. So we had hired a lot of doctors in Q1 where the hospital got commissioned on July 1. We were onboarding these doctors for Streakacular. So the doctor cost went up there. And QNRI which is a hospital that we acquired over there, we had seen some incremental doctor onboarding and a lot of renovation work is happening. So there’s been some delay in being able to complete the renovation work as a result because of which the ramp up is also getting slightly delayed.
But we should complete innovation soon and then ramp up in QNLI will happen. But it’s largely because of these two essays onboarding of talent.
Abdul Kadir Puranwala
Got it. And so when you talked about your EBITDA losses, we say somewhere cumulative range.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Of 30, 35 crores that even factors the new hospitals that are. There are no losses in Andhra. There are no losses in Andhra, whereas you know, there are no hospitals in negative ebitda. It’s just that there has been some EBITDA drag because of this incremental cost.
Abdul Kadir Puranwala
Okay, understood. And in terms of your guidance then. You know, how should we look at. Your EBITDA margins to plan out for. The current fiscal color on that front?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
I think Anywhere in the 22 to 25% range is what we’re looking at.
Abdul Kadir Puranwala
Got it, sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Harish Bihani from Kotak amc. Please go ahead.
Harish Bihani
Yeah. Hi. Hi doctor, Good morning. A couple of questions from my side. First is on the insurance part for the new units. If I understood correctly, we were also trying to tie up with some intermediary who can help solve this issue, at least for the foreseeable future. So anything on that that you would like to highlight?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
So that is happening. We are using that vendor, a couple of vendors to actually help do a reimbursement for all the insurance patients. But still, still a lot of patients are, we’re losing a lot of patients because they don’t want to go through this cumbersome process. They just want complete cashless. Like even in planning, which is fully commissioned, we are losing good number of patients in spite of which we’ve been able to ramp up. But they don’t want to go through this whole cumbersome process. They just want to, you know, do either cashless or go to a different hospital.
So that leakage also will get plugged once we have full impairment of all these.
Harish Bihani
Sure. And this issue takes time largely because of challenges with regard to a new hospital and the insurance companies taking a bit longer. So why does this happen?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Essentially, one, there are some bilateral negotiations that happen on tariffs and two, the process itself is quite cumbersome and now a lot of changes happening at the insurance level also. It’s just become a little more cumbersome than before. Even traditionally it has always been very cumbersome to get empowerment from your hospital.
Harish Bihani
Sure. But for a hospital like us, which we are there in multi city, is it possible that some of this can be fast tracked or you are giving an outer limit of say a 9 to 12 months and could be fast tracked a bit earlier?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
It could be, but it’s safe to. Assume a longer timeline given the, you know, there’s a lot of bilateral negotiation on what the tariff should be, what the potential of that micro markets are because though we operate in, you know, we have multiple hospitals internally with these companies, they are all, they all focus on each of these micro markets very differently.
Harish Bihani
Sure. And you don’t want to give up on a particular number simply because that becomes the base for any, any future negotiation though. And in terms of the ramp up of some of the existing units where we are setting up incremental beds like Ongoal, Anandpur, Kondapur, let’s presume, say you stated in the presentation that will come in Q2, Q4, Q1, 26 and 27. So we should assume that it starts here, a quarter later. And how soon will these ramp up? Will it take say six months, year, year and a half? Obviously depending upon the number of beds too.
But just some flavor on that.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
These see UNGUL is a very small addition that should ramp up in 3, 4 quarters. But Anantpur, Kondapur, Rajmandary were building really large capacity. So full occupancy, 70% of that 70, 75% occupancy of those beds will take a good four to five years time. Before we get there, we get to a 70% kind of an occupancy for the incremental beds. We have almost doubling capacity in each of these locations.
Harish Bihani
Right, sure, understood. And on the losses for the new units. So let’s just assume that if it’s around say 80 crore this year, how will this look like say next year and a year after that? Ballpark in terms of the absolute size changing from 82x number, 2x number, some positive number in 28.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
I think beyond Q1 of next year we will have some drag from Bangalore or even that should be neutralized by Q2 of next financial year. But beyond Q2 we have no greenfield assets that are getting commissioned. So we don’t see these losses continuing beyond Q up until 2829 when we look at more hospitals. So somewhere like a 20 crore for. The full year or FY27 for FY27. Yeah, I think 2020 crore is a good number. 2030 crores.
Harish Bihani
Understood? Sure, sure. Thanks so much. All the very best.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Bhavya Gandhi from Dalal and brochure stockbroking. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Just wanted to understand what could be the peak revenue at realistic level of occupancy? Because different capacities are coming at different point in time. If you can provide a cutoff date when everything will be operational and what sort of revenue can we generate And EBITDA that we can generate at that point in time once all the oper, all the facilities come on stream, maybe Even if it’s 28, 29, some ballpark number if you can provide. It’s a very difficult answer to give because we keep adding capacity. I don’t think that will capacity initially continuously happen at least for the existing capacity.
When can we expect everything to come on stream? And what could be the peak revenue at realistic occupancy? We’ll have to look at that. We’ll come back to you on that.
Unidentified Speaker
Sure. And just wanted to understand at least 2, 3 years hence how would the RPOP look like some number. If you can provide. I think a healthy 4, 5% growth in the RPOB is what we should factor in.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And even for the. I mean for the upcoming facilities, what kind of ROCE are we targeting? At least once the ramp up happens at 20, 25% kind of. So on a full. Yeah, if you include the matured as well as the upcoming facilities, what is the steady state ROCE one should work out with?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
You should look at it cluster by. Cluster, you know, as the hospitals mature. Because hospitals are coming in different timelines. You should look at each hospital, each cluster by cluster. Each cluster we should be able to deliver a 20, 25%. Fair enough. And sir, for the upcoming facilities, have we faced any. I mean competitive intensity in any of the geographies? I understand few geographies we don’t have competition. But at least for the mature markets where there is healthy compet or are we seeing, you know, differentiated approach or any something. Something of that sort. Yeah, I think where we see a.
Unidentified Participant
Lot of competition is in our telegram. But fortunately we’ve been able to grow by both revenue and volume. For the newer clusters. Actually I was looking out for newer clusters. Newer clusters we don’t see much hospital that have gotten commissioned. We are not seeing any competition. Okay, fair enough. Thank you so much. That’s it from my end.
operator
Yeah, thank you. Our next question is from the line of Nikhil Mathur from HDFC mutual fund. Please go ahead.
Nikhil Mathur
Yeah. Hi, good morning all. So my first question is.
operator
Sorry to interrupt. Nikhil sounding very low.
Nikhil Mathur
Is it better now?
operator
Yes, now it’s better. Please go ahead.
Nikhil Mathur
Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah. So. Morning all. So my question is on the relationship between a loss and occupancy in your Telangana cluster. So assuming that 3.4 is the ALOS that remains, I mean it remains at that level for the foreseeable future, what kind of occupancy peak occupancy can you achieve on this sort of an Aloska?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
65, 70% occupancy at Telangana cluster is. What we can achieve.
Nikhil Mathur
Okay, so 50% theoretically can go to 60 or 70% and that we can expect. Got it. So would that mean that the margins in the Telangana continue to trend up? I mean via mixes they’re up. But if that occupancy were to be achieved at some point in time the margins or a bit up a bit can continue to trend up in this cluster.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah. It should potentially trend up.
Nikhil Mathur
Okay. Despite the competitive intensity, led doctor poaching or anything of that. So that might happen.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah. We have whatever competition capacity had to come in has come in in the last two, three years. And we have not seen, seen any loss of doctors from our hospital. At least our network of hospitals.
Nikhil Mathur
Okay. Okay. Thank you. The second question is on the Congo mix for the. For the company. I mean my understanding might be wrong but what we hear is that Congo is a mix that most of the corporate chains are kind of focused on increasing that part in the overall mix. So the first question is if in the entire Congo mix what is the RPOB difference versus corporate level? Let’s say if you are in Telangana, your RPUB reported this quarter is similar. 69,000. What can be the RPAP of the Congo specialties? I’m very ballpark. I’m not looking at an individual specialty level.
At a very ballpark level.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Nikhil. Sorry, we don’t have that information offhand with us but we’ll share it with you. But some broad sense, I mean 2x 2.5x 3x depending on some sense you have on the average billing of a patient over a 3.5 days kind of a time period. It will definitely be 20, 30% higher than the blended alpha. And there will be a drag on the other broad specialties which account anyways for 30% of the revenue.
Nikhil Mathur
Okay. And at a company level your Congo share is somewhere around 58%. I would imagine that Telangana would be much on the higher side and all the other clusters would be much, much lower. So this 58% can settle at 65, 70% in the coming years.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah. Correct. But most of our hospitals, whether new or old, the Congo specialty is around 60. 65%. 60%.
Nikhil Mathur
So even in Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh as well, where let’s say in Maharashtra, empanelments are still missing in certain.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah, yeah. Still the revenue from these facilities are probably the same. That’s not going to change. That’s not going to impact.
Nikhil Mathur
But then how, how will the. I mean you’re guiding to a 5, 5% kind of increase at an overall level. So would it be more specialty mix driven then or it will be more peer mix driven then?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
It will be a blend of both. It will be a blend of both. I said 5% on RPOB is pricing. But once the stability and specialties pair happen it will take a while for the RPOP to change. At a mature cluster. I am saying it will grow at a healthy 4, 5%. I am not talking about a company level. At a company level there will be significant change because almost 2,3000 beds have gotten added in different micro markets. So by the time it stabilizes it will take some while. And the RPOB in both Bangalore and are significantly higher than what our company RPOB is today.
Nikhil Mathur
Understood. And then what is the mix between surgical and medical today? I mean and how will that change in coming years?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
I think it will remain constant. I don’t see that changing.
Nikhil Mathur
Understood. Great. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rahul Jivani from IFL Capital Services Ltd. Please go ahead.
Rahul Jewani
Yeah, thanks sir. So. So sir, you indicated that the Telangana cluster would see let’s say a 5, 6% kind of an IP volume growth which would accelerate with let’s say Pondapur and Bacheboli next year. So can you similarly talk about the Andhra cluster? So what kind of IP volume growth you see in Andhra given that we have been adding these Onco and mother and child care specialties as well in.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Some of these IP hospitals a similar growth profile. Rao, because these are both mature clusters for us though there are some new greenfield opportunities in Anta. But since they’re all brownfield capacity addition currently we should assume the similar growth profile in both these clusters.
Rahul Jewani
Sure. Dr. Binh and Dr. Binnai, while let’s say within both these clusters there would be a few hospitals which would be operating at peak occupancies. But there would be hospitals within these clusters which are at the lower occupancy. So let’s say Sunshine and Telangana or some of the other tier 2, tier 3 hospitals. So if we look at occupancies for both these clusters it is around 55, 60% only. So given that we are only at 55, 60% don’t you think that the IP volume growth could be slightly better than what you are indicating?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
We have some limitation on the beds because some of the beds are being rebuilt. So we don’t have that bed capacity though on the beds that we have we are at a higher occupancy. But unless the new beds get commissioned, though it’s part of the overall capacity, unless the new beds get commissioned, it will be difficult for us to ramp up in this hospital. And both in Gachiboli and Begumed, which is the Sunshine hospital, we are adding new technology like cancer and some other specialties for more growth to happen in the future. Okay. Sure, sure.
Unidentified Speaker
And on this RPOP growth or this, this quarter at A company level, we saw 11, 12% kind of an RPOP growth. And you indicated that the mature markets or the cluster should see a 5% RPOB growth. But because we are entering into these markets where inherently the RPOB is higher than the company average, if you had to put out a number to overall RPOP growth at a company level, what would that number be? Let’s say over the next two to three year period. We haven’t really put that number through Rahul, but I think it should safely assume about 50, 55,000.
Rahul Jewani
Okay, so. So this company level RPOP which is right now at around 43,000 that you think can improve to a 50, 55,000 kind of enough.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah, but that will happen once ramp. Up in both Bangalore and Thane happen. Okay, sure.
Rahul Jewani
That’s it from my side. Dr. Mina, thank you.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Alankar Garudi from Kotak Institutional equities. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, good morning everyone. So out of the 300 beds at Kanye, how many are operational? Is it just 100 beds?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah, 100 beds. And Dr. Abhinav, when do you expect to increase the operational beds to say 250, 300 beds? I mean typically it takes a year or less than that.
Unidentified Participant
What’s the initial sense?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
You see right now on 100 beds we’re at around 50, 55 occupancy for the month of July. So as we reach 70% occupancy and 100 bids, we’ll open another 50 beds. But I think three to four years for a full 300 bits to be fully commissioned and to reach 70% occupancy is what we are looking for.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. The other question again on Thane and even on nasik, has the Dr. Recruitment in both the hospitals largely being done?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
In Tanya, it’s largely done. Just some onboarding is left which is which will happen in August, September at least for phase one of the growth. We have fully sorted as far as Tane is concerned for nasic, we have two, three specialties that are still pending which will potentially happen once we have these insurance companies on board.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. And maybe it’s very, very early to ask this question but just taking a chance on Arcore back. Thane, how is the RPOB looking like initially at this point of time? Comparable with the other peer in the market? Higher, lower. Any sense on that?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Very early because the specialty mix is yet to stabilize. But it will be similar. It will be very similar to what the other appear in the market fair Enough.
Unidentified Participant
The second question is given you have opened hospitals in quite a few new markets in Maharashtra and Kerala over the past few quarters. And you’ll be opening more as well, especially the Bangalore ones.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Can you take us through some of. The initial learnings you spoke about insurance and panelment. But apart from that, any learnings you. Would like to share. Especially if you compare these new hospitals with your existing EP Telangana facilities. Like we have always indicated, Maharashtra has been always slightly more difficult than the rest of south in doctor onboarding. But that’s because culturally the things are very different in both these micro markets. How it is more than institutional practice in Maharashtra. This is a new system that’s evolving. So that we’ve anticipated that it will take that much time when we set up the first few hospitals. But in Tanya it has been quite good. The response has been very impressive. We’ve got good traction from a lot of doctors, leading doctors in those micro markets. So we’re pretty positive about long term growth in Maharashtra and in also the other micro markets.
Karnatakar.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. And one final question. When you talk about Sunshine and Nagpur in terms of occupancies and resultantly in terms of margin expansion is there any further scope for expansion at both Sunshine as well as the Nagpur facility?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
Yeah, yeah. Sunshine and Nagpur both have more scope for expansion as incremental revenue comes in 40% of that deferral process. Where are we in the journey on Sunshine when it comes to changing the specialty mix. We have reached now a healthy number. You know when we first commented we didn’t anticipate ORCO to grow as well with similar growth rate. But that has continued to grow. But whatever we wanted to achieve in most of our other specialties we have done. We need to create more space in the new Begum paid hospital at Sunshine. This is to add more specialties such as oncology and pulmonology. As far as Gachaboli is concerned, we want to expand to a slightly. We want to add more beds again to add more oncology. So with that expansion I think what we had earlier researched for Sunshine will be fully done.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. That’s very helpful, Dr. Abhimay. Thank you. And all the best.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Harith Ahmed from Avendes Park. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, good morning. Thanks for the opportunity. Dr. Abhinay, can you talk a bit specifically about our O and M units? We’ve signed a few arrangements under the OM model. So which among the three or four are currently operational? Was There any contribution for the quarter. And if you can also talk a. Bit about what exactly our involvement is in these units. Do we have our own people at what levels? And the kind of capex commitment from our side.
Unidentified Speaker
So there’s no capex commitment from our side. Harid, on these assets we have two hospitals that are operational. One is Sangli and one is Guntur. There is one more hospital in Hyderabad that will get operationalized soon. But from both Guntur and Sanghi the response has been quite good. We’ve been able to break even in both the hospitals. And both the hospitals today are doing a top line of around 18, 17, 18 crores per month. And we see the potential for that to double over the next three to four years. So that’s the contribution from both these hospitals. And they’re also both broken even.
Now what exactly is the arrangement we have of people at?
Sachin Ashok Salvi
So we have full control over the. Pnl, the hospital operations, the clinical talent hiring. All of that is under the scope of QIM and we manage the entire hospital for the promoters and we take a certain share of the revenue. Okay. And are we looking to add more units under this model? I’m asking because from an operational bandwidth standpoint would there be a constraint Given we have wrapped up hospitals at Mashik Ghane and the upcoming hospital we’re adding one in Telangana. But I don’t see anything. At least within the next three quarters we don’t see any more O and M contracts happening.
Okay, that’s all for my slides. All the best.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is a follow up question from Nancy Ada from Allegro. Please go ahead. Hi.
Nancy Yadav
Thank you for the opportunity again Sir. Like we spoke about the EBITDA bags from Thane, Nashik and Kolam. I also wanted to get the revenue numbers for the three facilities. Hello. Am I audible?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, you’re audible.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
As far as the top line number is concerned for thane we did five and a half from last week we did about 15.5 crore. And in column. Colon you did nine cross. Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sure. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you sir.
Sachin Ashok Salvi
So very good interaction and then the updates. What you have given the questions you’re able to think through and what we are trying to achieve. As I mentioned many times that the we believe that we can able to achieve the what we have been achieved the CAGR of top line and bottom line in the last decade. We are also planning to achieve that that’s why we are doing these executive models and Andhra units are basically purposefully we put there is a lot of skin patients and the R Pops and the Capex what we invest in permit is also less when compared to the rest of the Maharashtra and Telangana and Karnataka and the other important things the medical and surgical branches.
When you see there is nothing like only Congo that able to give more even the some of the non Congo specialties then the complexity of the case it will also do more of value and the RPOps growth also will be there from 5 to 10% growth will come because of the new things which are being added as we anticipated there will be a lot of tough time for us in Maharashtra and Karnataka to align with the doctors but after seeing that what the learnings we learned they are also very happy the way culture work we built in Kim’s they’re also moving towards this side that is a very good positive note on us so that we have more encouragement to develop more and more in Karnataka and Kerala and Maharashtra because they’re also aligned and what we have been planned what we are with our things in the south Telangana that is a very very positive so that it will be easy for us to move forward little further.
And we also look for the some strategy of world nams where our because we have a lot of expansion plans with a lot of debt is sitting on the books and one model is a better model so that we can also build and have a total control at the same time we’re getting some money for the EBITDA and we are looking around in a few years that may be 100 crores top line per month. So nearly 9 crores will come from there 9% with all those things what we look at there is a very very positive look from our side the plan and the growth very meticulously very cautiously and consciously deploying the CAPEX and also the operational leverage where without causing inconvenience to the patients without going back on our affordability, accessibility, quality these are all I think we are very very pretty good spot as far as healthcare is concerned.
Kim’s is a very good question. Once again thank you very much for all our questions and the knowledge that you have been given in the form of questions. Thank you.
operator
Thank you on behalf of IFL Capital Services limited that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.