Kirloskar Brothers Limited (NSE: KIRLOSBROS) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 15, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Rama Kirloskar — Joint Managing Director (w.e.f – August 3rd, 2021) And Managing Director of Kirloskar Ebara Pumps Li
Sanjay C. Kirloskar — Chairman & Managing Director
Chittaranjan Mate — Chief Financial Officer
Alok S. Kirloskar — Non-Executive and Non-Independent Director, and Managing Director
Chittaranjan M. Mate — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Sunil Kothari — Analyst
Sani Vishay — Analyst
Aakash — Analyst
Raj Shah — Analyst
Rolin Nandu — Analyst
Himanshu Padhyay — Analyst
Tushar Gupta — Analyst
Florlin Nandu — Analyst
Priyash Babaria — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
RA. That’S. It. Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Keralowskar Brothers Limited Q4NFY 25 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward looking statements about the company which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involves risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone.
Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjay Kirloskar, Chairman and Managing Director of Kirloskar Brothers Limited. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar — Chairman & Managing Director
Good afternoon everyone. On behalf of Kirlosco Brothers Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to everyone for joining us on our call today. I hope you’ve had an opportunity to go through the financial results and investor presentations which have been uploaded on the stock exchanges and on the company’s website. On this call I have with me Alok Kirloska, Managing Director Kiloso Berbers International, BV Rama Kirloska, Joint Managing Director, KBL and MD Kilosharibara Pumps Ltd. Parish Cheddar, our new CFO and strategic Mr. Devang Trivedi, our Company Secretary and Strategic Growth Advisors, our Industry Relations Advisors. First, I’d like to brief you about a few developments at Kidworks for Brothers.
We are pleased to inform you that based on the recommendation for the nomination and Remuneration committee and consideration of the Board of Directors of the company, Mr. Bharvesh Cheddar has been appointed as CFO of the company with effect from 14th May 2025. He’s a qualified Chartered Accountant and has completed Executive Postgraduate Diploma in Business Management from Symbiosis Institute of Management. He brings with him 23 years of experience in finance, planning and analysis, Risk Management, Treasury Management, Mergers and Acquisitions, ERP Implementation and International Subsidiary Operations. He has worked with reputed organizations prior to joining our company.
I’d also like to place on record my sincere appreciation for the excellent work done by Mr. Mittal in his role as CFO earlier, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Ravish Mittal on behalf of everyone including the Board of Directors of the Company for his dedication and service. Now let me begin my remarks on our performance for Q4 fiscal year 25 and the full year’s performance. I’M pleased to report that for the financial year 2025 our consolidation revenues reached rupees 4492 crores representing a 12% growth on year on year basis. This performance was driven by strong demand for a diverse range of products and services across multiple segments, reflecting our deep understanding of market needs and our ability to adapt to changing customer requirements.
Our growth was supported by sustained momentum in both domestic and international markets where we successfully captured new opportunities and expanded our footprint. This was further complemented by our ongoing focus on innovations, customer centric solutions and operational excellence. EBITDA for FY25 grew at 18% on year on year basis to Rupees 681 crores with EBITDA margin of 15.2%. This improvement in our operating performance reflects the success of our ongoing efforts to drive operational efficiency, streamline costs and optimize resource utilization across all our business verticals. For the year, we recorded good order inflows in both domestic and international markets reflecting a year on year growth of 12% amounting to 5,182 crores.
On standalone business performance for fiscal year 25 we achieved year on year growth of 7% with revenue from operations reaching 2,901 crores. In addition, our subsidiaries Korapot Private Limited registered a growth of 48% in fiscal year 25 driven by new orders from large customers. Sarat Projects and Motors registered a growth of 13% in FY25 driven by an increase in export business. A strong order book and strategic focus on business opportunities position us well for continued success. As of March 25, our standalone pending orders amount to Rs. 1,804 crore excluding small pumps order book reflecting a strong pipeline.
Furthermore, we’re seeing sequential growth across several key segments including building and construction, industrial and power sectors. On the international business, we registered a growth of 21% in fiscal year 25. This growth is driven by growth in SPP, UK, the Dutch entities and Silosho Brothers Tiling Ltd. On account of a robust order book execution, FCC’s US business is seeing good traction on data centers, FHIR and H Vac packages. With a keen focus on our business prospects supported by a robust order book, we are optimistic regarding our future growth prospects. Our overseas pending order book stood at rupees 1,208 crore.
Lastly, I’d like to inform that the Board of Directors is recommended a final dividend of seven rupees per equity share of face value rupees to the 350% of face value as against 300% in the last financial year. With this Let me invite Mr. Varis Chaga here for to discuss the financial performance highlights. Thank you. Thank you sir. Good afternoon everyone. Let me start with the consolidated financial performance highlights. On the revenue front, the net revenue from operations of Q4FY25 stood at Rupees 1,281 crores as well as 1224 crores. In the last year. And for Q FY25 the net revenue from the operation which is 4,492 crores as again Rs. 4001 crores in FY24. Last year. On EBITDA front our EBITDA for Q4SY25 was 215 crore as against 228 crores in Q4. Last year EBITDA margin for Q4FY25 grew at 16.8%. For FY25 EBITDA was 681 crore as again 578 crore. In SY24 EBITDA margin for FY25 stood at 15.2% on profit after taxing. Our profit after tax for Q4FY25 was 138 crores. And for the full year it is 419 crores. That’s it from our side. Yeah. We can now begin the question and answer session.
Thank you.
operator
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. I repeat, you may press star and one to ask a question. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and 1. We have a first question from the line of Sunil Kothari from Unique.
Please go ahead.
Questions and Answers:
Sunil Kothari
Thank you sir. For opportunity. Congratulations for a really good performance during the year. My question in general very on a strategic way, broadly the way we worked during last 57 years to improve our profitability in international market. We have created solid foundation of services and framework contracts and all. If we want to grow our market share in a global market, international market, what additional efforts we are taking, what we require to do and how possible is it to double our market share during next three to five years broadly you can qualitatively talk on these things.
Will be really helpful.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Okay, I think I’ll answer the question partly and then we the rest to alok And Rama to answer as well. In the last few years we’ve come out with very large number of new products, new products which are not only in the pump in the field of hydraulics, but also electronics and IoT related. So these are products, small the retail products which are made by our small farm business. We have introduced hundreds of products in the last few years which meet the BE norms for 5 star and 4 star ratings. As far as Karoshwadi products are concerned, I think what we’ve done is last year we told you about two different series of pumps that had ecolabel and we’ve also entered into new segments, one which is FGB kind of pumps as well as certain pumps for strategic sectors.
So on the other side with AR&VR, VR, probably a company that is on the is at the cutting edge of technology as far as the product and service offering is concerned. I think Alok has spoken about framework work contracts which allow us to now look after total rigs that not only belong have our pumps but everyone else’s pumps. So the service contracts that we are taking which allow us to supply spare parts for all kinds of equipment. There are opportunities because of AI that we see going forward which is in the process of being implemented.
Of course, the routes to market, that’s the sales channel that’s all consistently being enhanced to give us new opportunities in different countries around the world. As far as products and technology is concerned, I think we are where we need to be. We have a full range of products right from half horsepower to by continuing horsepower to about 7 horsepower. We also have a distribution network that is very strong in India. We are building a distribution network around the world and the opportunities are great. The opportunities which we see, I think I’d mentioned this earlier as well, which is power, thermal power, which is seeing new life where a large number of orders are being placed on players like.
Us. And the EPC contractors, whether thermal or nuclear. I think we start moving up the urbanization that’s taking place in India where we have very good products through our building and construction sector. So the opportunities are tremendous and I think we are looking at the future with a great deal of optimism. Aloka Rama, if you’d like to add.
Alok S. Kirloskar
I just had Eugene, as you mentioned, five years. Probably you are seeing that from the last five years. But I think these things take some time and I’ll probably give you two examples. To put it in context. Our APOEM program was launched in 2011, actual traction, we only started getting maybe around 2,018 and real benefits all of you are seeing in terms of change of msr, which is material price ratio and things like that in the more recent years. So it’s more than a decade long program. But the impact is only being visible now. The same for framework contracts.
Our first framework contract was signed in 2016. But until you get to critical mass, which probably happened maybe three years ago, you have got visibility outside. And so I think these things take some time to build up and for them to be visible and it’s not necessarily five years, it can more like 10 years for a company like ours because they need to come to that size for it to be visible in the external market. So I would start with that. But going forward I think there are many opportunities for us. You know, we are looking at, you know, developing the first service market going forward in a more in depth fashion because we are in a market that is changing.
As you know, Europe is de industrializing, UK is deindustrializing because of the Net Zero program which I think everyone, including one of our major customers, which is ineos. So the billionaire Jim Ratcliffe has said that, you know, because of Net Zero, they’re shuttering all the chemical plants, which is the INEOS plants in the uk. I think he put out an article about it because the power costs are too high and that’s going to sort of go into other segments also if the government doesn’t change course. But a framework contract, let’s say with ineos, which we do have, if the plant shuts down, you don’t have any benefits from it.
You will need to have visibility in concept from a framework contract. So you know, from that point of view we are also looking at new geographies. We are looking at developing these framework contracts further to see what else we can do. Not just components, rotating equipment because now slowly we are able to do all brands of pumps. The next step really is to add other things like gearboxes, compressors, engines, everything that falls into rotating equipment and that widens the scope for us. The other is like my father mentioned, distribution network. Distribution networks are important and in areas like the US and Southeast Asia where they are more prevalent compared to Europe.
Because Europe historically for most manufacturers is more a direct sale methodology that these two are more distribution oriented. So getting more penetration and developing a network like we have in India is really a focus for us going forward. And I would say the new technologies like green hydrogen is one area that we’ve broken into. And we also have something totally new which of course I can’t mention because we have signed the NDA for it. But it’s not nuclear or anything like that. It’s completely new technologies which today we have the ability to demonstrate and customers believe us because we are now in international markets, we are of that size, we are handling their facilities and they trust us to be able to develop completely new kind of technology which historically we could never do.
Historically, as you know, most of the process owners or process developers were based in Europe and they used either European or maybe American pumps and other equipment as part of their own R and D process where they’re developing new technologies and by default those equipments became a part of the package. Now I would say for the first time in a long time, we are part of that process where we are being asked to develop with them new applications, new technology. So I would say this is a big, big change and this will allow us to develop traction going forward.
And I’ll hand it over to Ramal Gad to add.
Rama Kirloskar
Yeah, thanks Alok. Just a few points I would like to talk about. One is we’re doing a few improvements in our operations specifically on the factory and foundry side to enhance productivity and make the plants a lot more scalable than they are today. We’re also rolling out digital strategy that enhances our scalability through automation and AI and AR kind of tools that will really help the company with analytics and scalability again. And one other aspect would be KBL also looking at certain export markets that it wants to focus on for better market penetration. So I think all these factors combined are going to help us grow in the future.
Thank you.
Sunil Kothari
Great. Very detailed and explanatory. Thank you. And sir, just last point is on the base we created, are you confident to achieve the numbers? Whatever you are guiding for and your aspiration is for current year near term, how you see your visibility, if you can talk domestic and interest will be really helpful.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
We have always mentioned that we see a very good order funnel and we have a good hit ratio. So we’re quite confident of achieving the numbers that we aspire to.
Sunil Kothari
Great sir, wish you good luck. Thank you a lot.
operator
Thank you. Thank you. SA.
operator
We have our next question from line off. Before we move on to the next question, a reminder to all participants you may press star and one to ask a question. We have our next question from the lineup. Sani Vishay from Access securities. Please go ahead.
Sani Vishay
Yeah, thank you. Thanks for taking my question and congratulations on a good effort into a performance to the whole team. And welcome to Mr. Cheddar looking forward to meet you soon. My question is, we had a very good train started from Q2 of last year. I mean the year that went past. And given that we had a expectation of a stronger performance than the 5% year on year growth in the revenue and the EBITDA decline. So could you just throw light whether this is lack of momentum that we will see going ahead or do we think we will be able to recoup the growth that was going.
operator
To. Hello. Sanjay. Sir. You started by saying that the year began on a good note and there was a certain slowdown, right? Is that what you said?
Sani Vishay
Yeah. So I think particularly the Q4 EBITDA margin seems a little bit disappointing. Just wanted to understand, is it a temporary blue and we expect to continue on the same train that was earlier?
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Yeah, because you know, we’ve explained many times that we are, we have two or three kinds of businesses made to order, made to stock and an engineer to order. And therefore you shouldn’t be looking at us from quarter to quarter. But if I could give a general sense of what we saw happening, there seems to have been some liquidity issues in the, with customers and also towards the end, you know, we believe in cash and carry kind of business, including with small contractors who participate in programs. So we will not deliver products if we are not sure of getting the money.
And we did see that some of these, in some of these programs there were some issues and there were delayed payments to the contractors. We’re seeing that slowly going back to normal. But we will continue with our policy of ensuring that we get paid for before we ship. There was also another issue towards the end of the year that we do certain large pumps where we get pre issue material and that didn’t show up on time. So I expect that this will go back to the kind of margins that we had going forward.
Sani Vishay
Okay. And finally, if you could just touch upon how you see this U.S. tariff scenario that may positively have been negatively impacted that system.
Alok S. Kirloskar
I think this was relating to US Tariffs. Yes. I mean it’s hard to tell because we did have one consignment that went in when the tariff was in place and we saw the net tariff had increased by 10%. I don’t think it made a significant issue at that time. But I feel that because you know, we mentioned to customers that we will pass the tariff onto them because that’s what our suppliers are doing to us and that is not unique to us. That is what’s happening across the market. But 10%, I guess customers, they’re not happy, but they may consider it. If it was 25 or 30%, then definitely they’re not going to absorb that kind of number.
But then as you know, it went on pause. So the issue is that because the tariffs go on and off, on and off all the time, it’s very hard to establish what the impact is. If there was some consistency, even by keeping the tariffs, there’ll be some understanding of what the impact would be.
Sani Vishay
Okay, but can we expect some positive impact also given that we have presence in US Itself?
Alok S. Kirloskar
Definitely, I think that, I think that anyway, is there a little bit right now. And that’s what we’re trying to assess based on the Chinese tariffs because as you know, what is that A lot of American companies themselves buy a lot of the parts from China. So many of our, obviously most of our competitors are Americans, American companies. So from that point of view it could be beneficial. Could be beneficial. But because of changes even on the Chinese tariffs in that category, it’s not yet clear to us. So I would say that we just need to wait for some time until there is some stability for me to.
I can’t give you a clear answer because obviously whatever answer I give there will be some repercussion which you would expect. So it’s not even that clear to us because it keeps changing all the time. But to answer your question, yes, if there was tariffs on India and those tariffs on the, on China and they were consistent. Yes, that would help us.
Sani Vishay
Okay, very much. Thanks a lot.
Alok S. Kirloskar
Thanks.
operator
Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Aakash from Dalal and Roka, please.
Aakash
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity.
operator
Yes, there’s a quite sort of disturbance from your end.
Alok S. Kirloskar
Yeah, now it’s better.
operator
Yeah, please go ahead with the questions.
Aakash
Yeah, just one question from my side wanted to understand on the margin front. So is it like a scope for margin expansion from the 1516 that we do on a consolidated basis? Can we still improve further on margins and what kind of. Yeah, just. I’ll just add one more last piece and what kind of revenue growth we forecast for the next year?
Rama Kirloskar
Well, I believe that would be a forward looking statement. As my father has always said that, you know, we will strive to have that year on year growth. But as far as the margin improvement is concerned, there is scope for margin improvement. As I mentioned earlier, we are doing a lot of improvements at our plants to enhance productivity. So we hope to have margin improvements through these activities as well.
Aakash
I hope that answers. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I mean. Can we expect a. Significant Change in margin trajectory when we go to 20% plus in the next three, four years. We will try to do our best. I cannot promise any numbers. There should be. Is it a possibility?
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Yeah, there is a possibility. That’s what she said. That we are trying to reduce waste improvement because we see a lot of scope for that.
Aakash
Thanks sir.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to take questions from all participants in the conference, please restrict yourself to only two questions per participant. Should you have a follow up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. I may repeat, please restrict yourself to only two questions per participant. We have our next question from the line of Raj Shah from Enum holdings amc. Please go ahead.
Raj Shah
Am I audible?
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Yes, thank you.
Raj Shah
My first question was regarding the UK Free Trade agreement. I’m not sure this is already discussed but question was, since we have a very large business in uk, how will this benefit us?
Alok S. Kirloskar
I don’t think it makes any difference. Okay. At least from our point of view because we are not exporting people out of India into the UK or anywhere else. It’s not really supportive. Probably, you know, we were running IT operations, it might make it easier for us. But as we are not bringing people over from India here in large numbers, it’s not really adding anything.
Raj Shah
Okay, got it. Second question was there was a fall in receivable days in F25 balance sheet from 48 to 40 days. Just wanted to know what is the reason and is it the new normal.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Better? It’s on account of better collection. We believe that top line is vanity, bottom line is sanity and cash flow is reality. So we will only do sales. We only recognize sales when we collect the money as a company. And it is our assumption that we are able to collect all our receivables. We also believe that if our products are good and acceptable to customers and better than anyone else, we can charge a premium and we will get paid up front. So our business model is to develop world beating products and to ensure that we only sell customers who can pay us, who are good paymasters.
Raj Shah
Okay, thank you very much. So I. I don’t know how much lower it will go, but it will be our attempt and you see that there’s a consequential fall in creditors as well. Thank you. Thank you very much.
operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Rolin Nandu from Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Rolin Nandu
Yeah. Hi team. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. I have two questions. The first one is on order Book. Right. So if I look at your quarterly order book run rate for the past eight quarters now we are at, you know, 1800 crores kind of run rate. And if this is, I mean, you know, order book is something which is forward looking. So is there some element of, you know, some of the revenues going towards AP OEM and hence not forming part of order book or is there a change in nature of order book in the sense that now the conversion of that order book into sales is much weaker than what it was two years back? How should one think about a flat quarterly order book, let’s say for past eight quarters now I’m talking about the domestic order book.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Yeah, as you can see the domestic order book is the same, approximately the same. I think the number of orders has risen by 12% and therefore the run rate is going up. We don’t want to have a large order book because customers are getting more and more demanding and they like to receive their products earlier, number one. Number two, as we explained earlier, the larger number of apoems also ensures that we supply bare pumps and the value of a bear pump is less than, than that of a pump set. Both the output has increased and the bare pumps.
More bare pumps are being sold.
Rolin Nandu
Sure, sure, that’s clear. My second question is on the service part right now, you know, two years back in one of the, I mean Q4FY23 conference call, I think Alok mentioned that you know, overall 20% of your revenue comes from services and you have aspiration to probably take it to 50%. I think Alok was mentioning that more to do with the overseas business. So how should one think about the potential for domestic service revenue? How big can it become? Right, because obviously there are some, some, some of the sales that we do do not have a component of services in them.
And also on this international part, on Alok’s comment of aspiration of 50%, where are we in terms of that aspiration and what can be done further than what we’ve already done to probably increase the services component in our consolidated revenue.
Rama Kirloskar
So I’ll start off by answering your question on domestic service. So unlike the international market, the Indian market is still evolving as far as change of contracts and large long term AMC contracts are concerned. So most of our revenue comes from your spares as well as your case to case service orders that we receive. The market for long term framework contracts is still evolving and there is a lot that we can do but we still don’t see the kind of traction that we see in the international market for such long term contracts.
Alok S. Kirloskar
Yes. You know, I think my comment, if you look back, what I said was that our 38% of our UK business comes from services. And yes, at an overall international level we are targeting 50%. We have got similar growth in South Africa, but as I’ve mentioned before, we have no service business Southeast Asia. So our focus really is to continue growing our service business from uk we are trying to get now Europe and Southeast Asia. These are two areas which we think we can build the service business. And to continue developing that, we have internally developed a proprietary software called Colego and Collego is a software that we are able to.
As you know, in service there is no standard time for the different tasks that you’re doing because you don’t know all the tasks that you will need to do. And so what the software does which we have created, it belongs to us, is that, you know, you can record all the actions required. You know, when you are making a quotation for a job and using another software of ours called Phoenix, it measures what actual time is taking in the shop floor and it stores that. And over time it builds a library using AI. And going forward you’re able to, every time you make a quotation of, you know, what repair is required on a particular job, it can take out the quotation and it gives you a standard time and the kind of operations required.
So really the reason we created this is that if we want to scale the business and service centers are in different locations in the world, we should be able to have a clear understanding and visibility of what we are doing there and how quickly and at what efficiently we are doing those tasks to repair those products. And that is why we have created the software. So I think that we should have scalability for that and we are doing all the right things to create scalability. So I would say to answer your question, that Europe and then Southeast Asia, those are the two markets that we are going to grow on in the service business.
Great.
Rolin Nandu
Thank you so much for the detailed answer. That’s it from my side. I’ll join back in the queue. Thank you.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
The only other thing I wanted to add to that was I think for the last few years we’ve spoken about our IoT device which helps in remote monitoring and predictive maintenance that continues to get more and more popular as we are going forward. So we expect that we will be able to increase our service revenues through these devices.
Rolin Nandu
Thanks a lot.
operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Himanshu Padhyay from Bajal Rock pms. Please go ahead.
Himanshu Padhyay
Yeah, hi, good afternoon. So my first question was can you give some idea on domestic operations? So for the year you see 7% growth but what segments grow with and which were slow moving businesses. In the press release we have said on quarter wise but for the year if you can give some more idea it will be helpful to understand.
Rama Kirloskar
So you know I believe your question is answered in the highlight section of our report in the press release that exactly which sectors grew and by how much percent.
Himanshu Padhyay
No, it is for the quarter what it has said. Sectors major highlight Q4FY25 but can you give some idea on year wise for the full year what you did in a stage where you have given some. If you can help it will be helpful.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Yeah, we’ve seen growth in service. We’ve seen growth along with urbanization, building and construction segments and we’ve also seen growth in the industry segment. As far as order board is concerned we are happy with the way the power sector is progressing because there, you know there have been announcements of thermal power plants last year and some of them have started resulting in placement of orders on the company and marine and defense and oil and gas, I think those are sectors which are a little lumpy and oil and gas has also grown quite well.
Rama Kirloskar
I think for oil and gas you have to look at the KBL sector along with KPL financials because that would show you the true sector growth.
Himanshu Padhyay
The small farm business, what happened in last year, Some thoughts would be helpful.
Rama Kirloskar
I’m sorry, can you speak up a little because you’re very soft.
Himanshu Padhyay
So what I was asking was on small pump business can you give an idea of what happened in last year and the growth and retail side of the business?
Rama Kirloskar
Overall we’ve seen about a 7% growth in small pumps business. We have focused a lot on market penetration. There’s been around 200 new products that we have launched, specifically energy efficient products with energy efficient motors, large submersible products going up to around 10 inch oil filled submersible range. So there have been quite a few products we have introduced for certain markets that are our focus areas. And as far as our footprint is concerned we have been focusing on our distributor network, our service network as well, including the sort of cost competitive products that we have launched in the last year that are not exactly competing with some of the other players in the market because the other players are essentially compromising quality for giving the kind of cost benefit.
But we are able to actually give good quality products in a Cost competitive manner. So that would be our USP specifically on the agricultural side. We’ve come up with a new range of economy models which we see a lot of traction in the rural market.
Himanshu Padhyay
And this question is to alok okay this Thailand we saw significant improvement. Okay. In terms of revenue, but the margins have been very tight. Okay. Last four or five years. And what is your thought process on its business and longer term, what do you think is the potential size of this market where we are working?
Alok S. Kirloskar
Sri Manchu I think that it’s Southeast Asia is a very big market. One of the issues that are maybe current issue like you mentioned that we are facing there is because a lot of American and European companies, apart from Chinese companies, but a lot of American and European companies have plants in China. And as you know, as you appreciate, they’ve done this over many years where they’ve shut down their plants in France and Germany and other places and moved them to either India or China. And so what’s happened is over time they’ve become very competitive and they retain their western or European brands, which has the Western European perception.
And so in Southeast Asia usually they sell their products from their Chinese plants. So the markets have been very competitive. But that said, even in that competition, like you said, we were not in negative. So we are able to really get deeper penetration because that’s something we’ve been trying to do for some time and we are getting good traction there. And we are also looking at specific areas, like I think I mentioned it last time, palm oil. And we’ve got major breakthroughs in palm oil now where we’re supplying large number of pumps for this application because now these are specialized applications, you know, pumping various kinds of chemicals also in the process.
So our focus really is to continue building the distribution network within Southeast Asia and then to also focus on these kinds of special applications unique to Southeast Asia where you know, we can get better realization because of criticality of the application. Does that answer your question?
Himanshu Padhyay
Yeah. Thanks. Because the revenue line, if you look at it, has been very volatile. Okay. In last few years. So that was the reason for the query.
Alok S. Kirloskar
Yes, I would say that. I would say that because last year, not in this financial year, the last financial year, we had a very big project that went through which was the second repeat project for the storm water system for Bangkok, which I think we had advertised that we had won that job. So that was a very big project. So sometimes when you win these projects it skews the numbers. But generally our focus is to make it remain a core Product business. And when I say project is regular product, but our focus is to make it more around industrial building, construction, water kind of business where the products are sold to distributors and some critical products are sold directly.
So that is still our aim. But yes, we do have good presence in water jobs. And sometimes these big water jobs come through every few years and that adds a little bit of volatility in the numbers.
Himanshu Padhyay
Okay. And can I ask one more question?
operator
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.
Himanshu Padhyay
See, one of the places where we have done very good and exceptional work is on the cash flow conversion cycle. Okay. We are now nearly 80% of fat to operating cash flow or operating cash flow. Pat is around that. We have nearly 700 crore of cash on the balance sheet. Any thoughts on what type of opportunities you will be looking for business development? I am assuming that the type of business, what we are doing will continue to do that type of business for next five to seven years and hence the conversion will remain around that level.
So that, that is what I am clearly assuming. Based on that assumption, I am asking this question that opportunities for cash utilization in near future.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Well, there will be opportunities. You know, we are looking at improvements in our operations, we are looking at improvements in our sales network. So obviously the board is also of this matter. And at the appropriate time we will take a decision.
Himanshu Padhyay
Will we evaluate in organic opportunities or it will remain organic only?
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
Well, there are all kinds of options available and all kinds of offers come to us. But at the appropriate time, we will do whatever is right for the company.
Alok S. Kirloskar
Okay.
Himanshu Padhyay
Thanks Swamiji.
operator
Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of push from Nexim on pms. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi. So thank you for the opportunity. Two questions. One, what is our average execution timeline on the order book, domestic and overseas? And second, what would be a CapEx number for the next two, three years?
Rama Kirloskar
So for our Tiros Kirwadi business, we have time goes anywhere from 16 weeks to 18 months. And for our small pump business, we don’t show the order board because it gets executed within a week. As far as CapEx is concerned, it will be in line with previous years.
operator
All right.
Alok S. Kirloskar
And I know that you all don’t. We don’t give what a particular numerical guidance. We do maintenance capex of about 100 crores which includes debottle making, modernization, replacement and obviously when replacements happen, you know, a few machines may go. So it’s all those kind of activities to ensure that the plant is able to meet the the expectations of the customer. Right.
Unidentified Participant
And sir, I’m aware that, you know, we are not giving particular guidance, but directionally, if you can help us understand what kind of growth are we looking at for the company in the medium term?
Alok S. Kirloskar
I think we always have said that we will strive for double digit growth. All right. Okay, thank you. That has been changed. Right.
Alok S. Kirloskar
Thanks.
operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Tushar Gupta from Sagun Capital. Please go ahead.
Tushar Gupta
Hello, sir. Am I audible? Yep. Thank you for the opportunity. I want to know about the. What is the industry growth rate in pumping segment or what we can expect in that and how much market share we are catering to.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
So we believe we are in line with the growth in the industry as far as pumps are concerned. And I’d be very careful to mention that we do not supply systems because some companies are showing growth in systems resupply pumps. And as far as we are concerned, our market share we believe is around 15% in small pumps on the retail side and as far as. Yeah, around 15% on the retail side. And as far as the small and medium pumps is concerned, it is around 24, 25%. And as far as large pumps are concerned, we believe we are closer to 40.
Okay.
Alok S. Kirloskar
What is our main focus? Only in centrifugal pumps because pumps could also include the positive displacement pumps. Centrifugal pumps is about 66% of the pump market and my percentages work for centrifugal.
Tushar Gupta
Okay, sir. Thank you. Sir. One more question I want to ask. So we are dealing in so many segments. So what are our major focus except pump pump. We also make V turbine steam turbines, which is part of our portfolio. Which part of the pump package. So, so what sort of growth we are expecting from that segment?
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
I think something similar though hydro turbines tends to be lumpy, depends on state government programs. Sometimes you’ll suddenly see a rise and then nothing might happen in the next year. It’s difficult to give a number for idle turbines. Steel turbines I think will grow in line with the oil and gas industry because steam turbines are related to the API standard and valve normally grows at the same rate as pumps.
Tushar Gupta
Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Florlin Nandu from Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Florlin Nandu
Yeah, thank you once again for giving me the opportunity. My question is on margin. While you answered some part of it in the previous answers, my question was, you know, we did a very big reject at Right. Where we had numerous units. We consolidated that. Right. So just wanted to Understand, are the gains of any of these one time rejects already in the numbers or you see that, you know there could be some more benefits which could come out of, you know, some of these one off, one, one time exercise that we have done on the cost side because the incremental margins are, is something which company can strive to continue to achieve.
And then there could be mix change also which could help margin. But at least is there anything one time which is still left or gains of this change that you have made at Kritlaj Karwadi still left to be, you know, visible in the margin numbers?
Rama Kirloskar
Yes sir. Kilottavadi is a very large plant. So what you mentioned earlier essentially relates to our megastore that we put up. The megastore essentially consolidated 50 raw material stores in the plant and that did help in productivity improvements at the plant. Although it will continue to give a certain level of cost benefit in the future. However, the main rejig is going to be actually two main rejigs. There are going to be the foundry and the factory which is still yet to be done.
Florlin Nandu
Rama, can you just double click on each one of it as to what is the revict that you are talking about and when is the. What is the timeline for this?
Rama Kirloskar
So essentially it is looking at streamlining of various parts of the plant and ensuring we have better material flow, better productivity. It’s all going to be aimed at better productivity. But it’s a very large plant so it has to be done in phases.
Florlin Nandu
Any timeline. When do you intend to start with this?
Rama Kirloskar
No, not as of yet, not as of now, but in the near future.
Florlin Nandu
Okay, understood. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. The last question for today is from the line of Priyash Babaria from Mahindra Manualized Mutual Funds. Please go ahead.
Priyash Babaria
Hi. It’s so actually just one question with respect to if you can give further on inquiry pipeline for the domestic market and also for the export market itself.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
India. So if I could tell you about that water and irrigation. I think state governments continue to invest in infrastructure for both water and irrigation and we continue to be a good player in that. With orders from all kinds of EPC contractors. We have one EPC, we have one product company that does not get into JVs or into consortiums. We supply equipment. Yet because of our quality and the product performance, we do get very large numbers of orders in water and irrigation. In today’s press release you can see the number of pumps that we have mentioned over there.
As far as power is concerned, the outlook Seems to be bright. Thermal power stations have been put up in large numbers. Understand that DHL is full of orders. We hope to get orders from them as well. Industry. Different sectors of industry grow at different rates. But we are present since we have a whole range of products, we have a whole range of materials that we offer them in. We are always one of the top players in that part. Building and construction. I have always spoken about the urbanization that is taking place all across the country.
We are big players in firefighting in the firefighting side and increasingly on the H Vac and hydro pneumatic side. So we expect that to do well. Marine and defense again, we supply both to the docks as well as on ships. And this is one sector that is slowly coming into its own. However, the orders still tend to be lumpy. There is no daily business, as Alok calls it. The orders are more project related where we supply our pumping equipment. As far as oil and gas is concerned. I think that is also growing quite well with all the announcements being made by the.
So all in all, we are very positive about the way forward and we hope that you will be happy with the performance in the current year.
Priyash Babaria
Sure, sir. Thank you, sir. Are you here in terms of, let’s say order deferment? Because couple of companies are actually experiencing the same given current uncertain environment. So are you experiencing.
Sanjay C. Kirloskar
I didn’t catch on to what you were saying. So basically order department, the delay from the client side in terms of giving the orders to you. Yes. I mentioned at the beginning itself that there is there are certain delays in placement of orders but eventually they come.
Priyash Babaria
Okay, thank you. Thank you so much.
operator
So I think that was the last question. I’d like to thank on the call for their good wishes and your interest in the company and hope to meet you again next quarter. Thank you. Thank you. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ramak and Loska for closing comments.
Rama Kirloskar
We’d like to thank everyone for joining the call today. We hope we have given you a detailed overview of our business and also have answered your queries. Should you have any further clarification, please feel free to reach out to sga, our investor relations advisor. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Thank you on behalf of Kinlowskar Builders Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.