Kiri Industries Limited (NSE: KIRIINDUS) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated Jun. 02, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Purvangi Jain — Investor Relations, Valorem Advisors
Manish Kiri — Chairman and Managing Director
Analysts:
Amit Mehendale — Analyst
Nupur — Analyst
Ankit — Analyst
Himanshu Dugar — Analyst
Rohan Shukla — Analyst
Bhavishya Daluka — Analyst
Yash Dantewadia — Analyst
Sandeep Raj — Analyst
Ankit Bagrecha — Analyst
Apeksha Agarwal — Analyst
Vignesh — Analyst
Nitin Sharma — Analyst
Vivek Joshi — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4FY25 earnings conference call of Kiri Industries Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Purvangi Jain from Velorem Advisors. Thank you. And over to you ma’ am.
Purvangi Jain — Investor Relations, Valorem Advisors
Good evening everyone and a warm welcome to you all. My name is Parvangi Jain from Valerim Advisors. We represent the investor relations of Kiri Industries Ltd. On behalf of the company I would like to thank you all for participating in the company’s earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and the financial year ending 2025.
Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today’s earnings call may be forward looking in nature. Such forward looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results to differ differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management’s belief as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to the management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward looking statements in making any investment decisions.
The purpose of today’s earnings conference call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company’s fundamental business and financial quarter under review. The I would like to introduce you to the management participating with us in today’s conference call. We have with us Mr. Manish Kiri, Chairman and Managing Director Mr. Jaish Hirani, Senior Manager Accountant Finance and Mr. Suresh Gondalia, Company Secretary. I now request Mr. ManishKiri to give his opening remarks. Thank you and over to you sir.
Manish Kiri — Chairman and Managing Director
Good evening everyone and welcome to the earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and financial year 2025. I will begin with a brief overview of our Q4 FY25 performance followed by key operational highlights and strategic updates on a standalone basis. In the fourth quarter of the financial year 2025 the company delivered a strong sequential performance which with revenue from operations increasing by 19% quarter on quarter to 186.22 crore. Driven by improved business momentum and operational throughput. The EBITDA stood at 8.4 crore against EBITDA loss of 10.6 crores in the same quarter.
Of the previous year the company reported a profit after tax of 1.8 crore, delivering a complete turnaround from the loss of 29 crore in quarter 4 FY24. This performance highlights the Company’s robust financial discipline, operational agility and focus on long term value creation, positioning it well for sustained profitability and growth in the coming quarters.
For the financial year ending 2025 the standalone revenue from the operations was 655 crores which grew by approximately 4% on year on year basis and a beta loss was 44 crore against 3 crore of beta loss. In the last financial year the company reported a profit after tax of 4.4 crore, a sharp reversal from the loss of 94 crore the previous year.
On a consolidated basis, the revenue from operations for the fourth quarter stood at 205 crore, a decline of about 6.5% year on year basis with a EBITDA loss of around 5 crores as compared to EBITDA loss of 10 crores in Quarter 4 2024. Net loss for the quarter before share of profit of Associate was about 64 crore against 29 crore in the quarter of FY 2024. For the financial year ending 2025. On a consolidated basis the revenue from operations was 740 crore representing the growth of 4.4% of EBITDA.
The EBITDA loss was 54 crore against an EBITDA loss of 60 crore in the first financial year the net loss was 108 crore versus net loss of 91 crore in the last financial year. In the consolidated statement, the share of profit of associates include 373crore of share of profit of Daistar which does not have any impact on the valuation of the stake of Kiri in DI Star.
During this quarter we made a significant breakthrough in the long standing DI STAR matter by signing and share purchase agreement on 29 May 2025 to sell 37.57% stake to Longsheng for the base consideration of 676.3 million with an additional 20.3 million potentially payable. As per the Singapore supreme court ruling dated 1-31-2025, we are entitled to US$603.8 billion plus 5.33% annual interest from 9-03-2023 until the payment is made. The deal is expected to close by 10-02-2025 subject to conditions condition precedence from the sale which.
Will be strategically deployed for a new investment and shareholder returns. Our greenfield project and copper and fertilizer under Indo Asia Copper Limited is progressing well with phase one requiring around 8,000 crore of investment and projected annual revenue exceeding 45,000 crores. Land acquisitions, regulatory approvals as well as the partnership with technology providers are in place and we are moving forward for financial closure to support this growth.
Our subsidy Claronx holdings secure US$130million facility from two lenders backed by corporate guarantee and after shares. This provides ample funding flexibility without impacting our debt free standalone operations. Both standalone and Consolidated financials for FY25 receive unmodified audit opinions reflecting strong governance. Looking ahead, we expect margin improvements as legal costs decline and anticipate 1500 crores of annual revenue from our dies and intermediate segments. Our focus on disciplined capital allocation and diversified growth will continue driving resilience and long term value.
With that we can now begin the question and answer session. Thank you. Floor is open.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you sir. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Amit Mehendale from Robocapital. Please go ahead.
Amit Mehendale
Thanks. Thanks for the opportunity. Just in the introductory remarks there was a comment on the revenue guidance. Could you repeat that guidance again please?
Manish Kiri
Sorry, can you. Can you repeat please?
Amit Mehendale
Yeah, sure. In the introductory remarks there was a revenue guidance of 1500 crores. I didn’t. If you could explain that, you know, it will be useful.
Manish Kiri
I mean that is the guidance and that is. Yeah, yeah. That is a target that company has set up to achieve for the consolidated performance for the next year. Correct.
Amit Mehendale
Right. And what. What type of margins are we targeting, sir?
Manish Kiri
Well, if you. If we assume that the legal cost is going to go down, which is. Which is happening. Now with a lot of legal, you know, legal work is. Is getting completed with the self purchase agreement signed. You know, we should be having at least 8 to 10% of it on that.
Amit Mehendale
Okay, great sir. Thanks. That’s it from me.
Manish Kiri
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Participants, please restrict yourselves to two questions so that the management can answer as many participants as possible. If you have any more questions, kindly rejoin the queue. The next question comes from the line of Nopur from Art Ventures. Please go ahead.
Nupur
Hi, Am I audible?
Operator
Yes. Please go ahead.
Nupur
Okay, so firstly thanks for the opportunity. One thing I would like to ask that if I look at the consolidated figures from the year March 2022. So since last three years a decline has been witnessed in the top line. And accordingly bottom line has been increased majorly due to other income. So what constitutes the other income and why a fall has been witnessed in the top line of the company?
Manish Kiri
There is a change in the way we consolidate. What has happened is we used to consolidate for years Longshankiri which is Indian JV line by line in Kiris books of accounts. I think from this year onwards it has not been consolidated line by line but it has been now added as one line profit from the associated from associate companies. So that is a major reason for the change in the top line for the consolidated performance because of the change in the accounting practice.
So you see increase in the bottom line which is coming from the share of associates while top line is declining. But if you look at the top line on the revenue basis for the last three years combining both Kiri and 40% of Longstand Kiwi, it is not varying more than 10%. You know, as a. As a. As a variance. The reason consolidated number makes sense because lot of raw materials which are produced in Kiri are supplied to the joint venture. And then the joint venture produces finished products which is sold to the customers. So the profits are captured partly in Kiri and partly in jv. And consolidated numbers reflect the profit correctly which comes from the entire business of intermediates as well as dies. So that is why the consolidated number, you know, which accounts for the.
The consolidation of jv. Now there is another consolidation at the bottom line which you see which is coming from Dice. Now die star consolidation is just, it’s just for the reporting purpose. And, and that is not the cash flow to the company. That, that I must clarify to you. It is not the cash flow to the company. It is the reporting of the, of the, of the share of profits that is earned by Daisar. And 37.57% of that is coming over there now going through the sell process and now crystallizing K’s receivable, which is close to $676 million plus 20 million, another cost. So that would allow a fix. And the crystallized number that KIRI would receive from the diastar proceeds, hence the consolidated number would not reflect into any cash flow streams. I hope that helps.
Nupur
Yeah, I got your point. One last thing would like to ask you that what constitutes the other income? Because if I look at the financials of March 2025, EBITDA has been negative as you already stated in your opening remarks. And just because of, I believe to some extent because of other exam that was positive. So when our, when you know, our EBITDA margin, we can expect that it’s going to improve or it’s going to be better as compared to the large financial years.
Manish Kiri
I think the next two financial years the numbers are going to improve based on our internal projections. And if I’m correct, the, you know, the other income also includes the dividend income that we received from, from the joint venture. So that is part of also the operational cash flow that we receive from, as a dividend from the, from the joint venture. And which is, which is going and which is going to continue to come. And it has been coming, you know, almost every year now.
Nupur
Yeah, that is fair enough. But I believe as you said now, that dividend received by your company will form part of operating cash flow. But as for my opinion, dividend received will form part of your cash flow from investing activities. How you can classify activity?
Manish Kiri
Hello. Hello. Can you repeat please? Yeah, your is accurate.
Nupur
Okay. So I was saying that you mentioned that dividend received by your company. You are saying it is cash flow from operating activity. So as per my opinion, dividend received is always classified as. Is cash flow from investing activities. So why you considered this dividend as operating cash flow?
Manish Kiri
Well, I think it is coming from the operations of the jv. But either way, you know, either you considered as an income from the investment investment activity or the other income from. From. From your analysis perspective, that’s an income which is coming in the company.
Nupur
Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
Manish Kiri
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ankit from Fusion Capital. Please go ahead.
Ankit
Yeah. Hi. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes.
Ankit
Yeah. So my question was for the dice to proceed. So please correct me if I wrong. Like the. The payment date you mentioned 2 October 2025, right? Or is it the final will take some time from that.
Manish Kiri
See, the final date which has been. Which has been now confirmed is October 2, 2025. Correct. And there is a. There is an extension period of 30 days. So if it is up to. Up to receiver. If receiver thinks that the deal is coming to close and. And there is only formality left. There is some regulatory approval which are coming but you know it’s only overlapping to complete the pending matters. Receiver has discretion to give 30 days grace. Right. Which will bring this to November 2nd. So either the money to be in place to be paid to Kiri by October 2nd or before October 2nd. Or in the worst case if the extension is given by the receiver. If receiver feels so, then it should be by. By November 2nd Kiri should be receiving.
Ankit
And secondly like we were planning to participate auction like there was Deloitte appointed for that. So like why we choose to go with the like?
Manish Kiri
No, no, we haven’t chose. We. I think there is a kitty. There is a misunderstanding understanding here. It is not company’s choice to enter into agreement to sell the shares. Please understand Correct. It is Deloitte who has decided to sell the company shares to Long Send. Because Longstand ended up as the highest bidder at a value of $1.9 billion. Okay. Because Longshan was also the bidder, right? So they. They bid at 1.9 billion and because of their bid was highest receiver chose them to as a highest bidder to sell the company. It is not Kiri. It is the receiver who has entered into the agreement and it is the receiver who is the signator.
To the agreement and is the receiver who has sold the shares of the of Kiri to. To Long Strength. So I think that requires some clarification on your understanding. It is not Kiri’s choice or it is not Kiri’s consideration. Nothing like that. This is, this has come out of the competitive bidding process run by Deloitte and it is Deloitte’s decision.
Ankit
And for the like.
Operator
Okay, I’m sorry to interrupt. Ankit, those were your two questions. Could you please fall back into the back.
Ankit
Yeah. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Himanshu Dugar from Stylus Holdings. Please go ahead.
Himanshu Dugar
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir. First question I wanted was now, now that the deal between has happened, could you. Is there any understanding on how the cross holding transactions, that is transaction between Kiwi and Lonson Kiri the Indian JV as well as between Lonson Kiri and Die Star will continue going. Right, Because I understand all three also have transactions in between.
Manish Kiri
See last. Last 10 years when, when you know when both the shareholders long stand as well as Kiri. They’re both in the court and. And fighting in the court in Singapore. And Longshan Kiri has been the supplier to diastar for 10 years even today. And it is continue to supply to Diastar even in future also. So operations of Longsheen Piri in terms of supplying to Daiso as a relationship between Daistar and Longshane Kiri as the buyer and the seller as the customer and supplier is going to continue. It is not going to change anything. So JV status, JV’s operations and JV supplying to DI Star is not going to change. It is going to continue irrespective of of whoever is the shareholder of Taipa. So that is. That is one part and JV is not, not any. Is not a part of any transaction. Here it is Daisar, you know which is getting sold. So JV is nowhere relevant here as far as the supplies are concerned. They are going to continue to dice up. I hope I address.
Himanshu Dugar
Yeah, thanks for the clarification. Sir. Last question for my point on the interest expense. So I think we are recording almost 50 to 55 crores quarterly interest expense on our borrowings of around 1100 crores. I understand that would around work out to 1920% but we have borrowed at a much lower rate. Right. So what is the difference? You could elaborate on that.
Manish Kiri
You are talking about the interest where interest on the borrowing of 1100 crore.
Himanshu Dugar
Yes.
Manish Kiri
Sorry, clarify your question.
Himanshu Dugar
So my question is, for example for the March 25 quarter we have recorded an interest expense of 54 crores. On the balance
Manish Kiri
That you are referring to the consolidated number, correct? Consolidated P, L.
Himanshu Dugar
Yes, yes.
Manish Kiri
So it’s not a standalone. That consolidated P and L number is coming from the borrowing of 130 million which I mentioned in my opening speech which has been done by KIRI subsidiary in Singapore. Right. And that 130 million is currently being invested into ISCL Indonesia Copper Limited for the copper fertilizer project. So that is the borrowing which is related to the new project and that is in the subsidiary of kiri and that is what is coming here on a consolidated basis. It is not an interest bearing loan on the operations of the dice and the chemical business that the company is operating. Right. That borrowing is an advance taken against the judgment order in the Singapore subsidiary of piri. And that interest is payable as and when the, you know, the Dysar funds are received and as. And what those funds are paid to. To settle that borrowing. Correct. So even though it is accrued in. In the subsidiary, it has no relevance with the, with the, with the operations of ties and chemicals of the company. I hope that gives you some clarification.
Himanshu Dugar
Just a small follow up question on this, sir. So my only question here is till the time the funds from D are finally received in books of K, will we be having this 18 crore kind of monthly interest expense to be recorded or the number is related to something else as well?
Manish Kiri
No, no. The, the. Every quarter the. The accrual will be done. Correct. In a series subsidiary which you will see on a consolidated basis in consolidated P and L in India. Correct. So it will, it will. It will accrue every quarter whatever you’ve seen in the quarter. Last one.
Himanshu Dugar
Okay, understood. Thank you.
Manish Kiri
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of. From Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Rohan Shukla
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir. Yes, yes, we can hear you. Please go ahead.
Rohan Shukla
My question was broadly about the capex. Can you briefly guide about what apex are we expecting over the next few years? I think I missed the opening commentary. And how much will that be contributing to the overall top line? Also the full year case fix for FY25.
What was that? Thank you.
Manish Kiri
So you know over a period of next two to two and half years companies going to invest something close to 8000 crore in a new project. And out of that 1100 crore equity investment is going on as we speak. So till the Dystar funds are received company is going to continue to invest into Capex even in this financial year. But over a period of next two to three years we’ll be investing somewhere close to 8,000 crore in capex and which will generate as I mentioned almost 45,000 crore of revenue on the full operation basis of the copper and fertilizer facility.
Rohan Shukla
Thank you sir.
Manish Kiri
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Bhavishya Dakula from Aventus Capital. Please go ahead.
Bhavishya Daluka
Hi, am I audible? Hello.
Operator
Yes, please go ahead.
Bhavishya Daluka
Okay, so my question is regarding the copper segment. So you told that the revenue that is projected over the course of years is 45,000 crores. However I wanted to understand that you guided 8 to 12% EBITDA margins for that corporate segment. However peers such as Hindanka and Vedanta are usually at around 5% or lower. So can I understand how this 8 12% margin is coming from?
Manish Kiri
See the margins are coming from two major factors. Number one, you know company is investing into manufacturing of copper including value added products. So it is not only sale of copper cathodes but all value added products such as rods, tubes, foils. So value added products is part of the investment which we have announced. And that value addition gives us 3 to 4% wet margins. You know, compared to selling only pure copper. So that is one area and second area being the new plant being a new technology, there is an improvement in the process and the new facilities now require lesser energy compared to before. Lesser recycling of the refined copper compared to before. Smelters are more efficient. Correct. And those factors also play a role and whenever the new technology and new setup those are operating at a little bit better efficiency giving better margins. Number three, the important factor is also we have two product lines.
One is smelting and second is recycling. And two, feeding systems are being planned that would allow the recycling of copper to be done. And the higher the portion of recycling, better the margins would be. So these are the three factors which we have envisaged which allow us to have a bit better margins than the peer group companies. So we hope that we are able to implement this successfully.
Bhavishya Daluka
Yeah. Another question with regard to copper was that sourcing copper concentrate is one of the biggest risk that the company faces right now. So where are we in terms of the contracts that we built up with mines to get those supplies and what geographies are you targeting and what year of these mines are done? Just a look on that.
Manish Kiri
See that is the most challenging and toughest part. The highest work that we would need to make is to, is to, is to do offtake contracts for copper concentrate for the entire facility. And we have been focusing on this part. Our team has been in touch and in connect with so many miners, including the major MNCs to have majority of our concentric tied up with certain contracts which we have executed till now. We are at 50% tie up from Chile, Africa and Peru. But we are still 50% away and it will still take us another six months to a year before we have 100% or 125% of our requirement is fully tied up with off the agreements. So that is in process. That is the most challenging part of the entire business model. As you like to say. We are on the top of it.
And on an annual basis we would need around 2 million ton of 1.8 to 2 million ton of copper concentration. And hopefully we should be able to, we should be able to tie that up, but it is still working. We would be able to use, you know, because of the improvement somewhere from 20 to 25%. We would not require to have more than 25% quickly. So even if lower grade of copper concentrate, our process won’t be able to use it.
Bhavishya Daluka
Got it. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Yash Dante from Dante Equity. Please go ahead.
Yash Dantewadia
Yeah, hi. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, Yash.
Yash Dantewadia
Yeah. So I have two basic questions. Post taxes and everything Based on today’s forex price, what amount are we expecting to come into the balance sheet? Post. We receive the money from Long sec. Hello.
Manish Kiri
So it is, it is. Yeah, it is $676 million which you will see in the announcement. And, and also there is another twin. Yeah, there is another 20 million addition in that. That 20 million includes additional interest because the interest is running and also includes in part the fees to the receiver. So when you convert all this into Indian rupee, you are looking at somewhere close to 6,000 crore pre tax.
Yash Dantewadia
And post tax. Do you have the number?
Manish Kiri
Post tax, the tax workings are still not final. Okay. And you, you take, you know, 12, 12 and a half percent of this number. So which would be around, let us say 75, 80. Course
Yash Dantewadia
That’s the tax. Sorry. 700 crore is a taxable amount. I’m sorry.
Manish Kiri
Right, so. So you’re saying in, in a ballpark number we, we expect around 5200 to 5500 crore. Is that a fair assumption? Yeah, 5002 to 5300. Correct. That’s a fair assumption. And these are the, these are the preliminary numbers. I’m not a tax expert, so. Yeah, yeah. Even if tax reduces from that you should not, you know.
Yash Dantewadia
Definitely. Definitely. No, that’s why I just wanted a preliminary number from you. Don’t expect the exact number because I know that’s complicated and also depend on the forex changes that happen during this time. Right. So my second question is.
Manish Kiri
And also, and also what other. What are the tax expenses that we would be able to claim, you know, for tax optimization which whichever our tax and accounts team will be working on. But you can take this as a wall. Ballpark number. Right.
Yash Dantewadia
And my, so my second question is who’s going to be heading the copper entity? I think it’s the director of Aditya Birla Hindustan Copper. No, I think Hindalco Copper. Right, Hindalco Copper. So from when will he be attending the con calls? Because I know he’s already hired. Right.
Manish Kiri
I think. Yeah. There is a team which is in place. Correct. Right now. And the team is getting built every, every month, you know, we have more senior people joining. So you know, you know in a, in a one or two quarter we will have the head of business who will come and also brief you on the conference call. But, but still, you know, still it will take one or two quarters till we reach to a stage where we start reporting you numbers.
Yash Dantewadia
No. So my question is who’s heading the entity? Is it the same director of the copper or. It’s not decided.
Manish Kiri
No, it is not decided. No, it not decided yet. It’s not decided yet.
Yash Dantewadia
By when will we understand clarity on this, this portion? Because I. As you know, this is one of the most important things. Right. That who is going to be heading. Right. Opportunities.
Manish Kiri
Right. So. Correct. So you, you will have that picture clear in a quarter. One in a. One or two quarter from now. And, and because right now there are few sensitive matters which are going on and that is the reason that we are not announcing the team of the full management team of Indonesia Copper Limited. We will make that announcement. And since then you will see the competent people will coming and briefing you on the progress of the project.
Yash Dantewadia
Right. I just have. I. I’m not asking a question, I just have something.
Operator
Could you please fall back in the queue? You are done with your two questions?
Yash Dantewadia
No, I just wanted to convey something. It’s not a question really. I just wanted to tell them that if it’s possible, please give us clarity on the management as soon as possible. Looking forward to that. Right. That is very, very important. Yeah.
Manish Kiri
And at the same time we also want to ensure that we are very competent and capable team and not only one person. Correct. So you would need to have competent team. It’s a large project which cannot be driven by one person. Correct. So when you look at the management bandwidth of the new business, you will look at all operations are covered with respective heads who have enough experience. So it will be a team of six, seven people and not one person. And. And we will, we will give you that information.
Yash Dantewadia
Yeah, I’ll come back in the queue. Thank you so much for taking my question. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sandeep Raj from Oculus Capital Growth Fund. Please go ahead.
Sandeep Raj
Sandeep, please go ahead with your question and unmute yourself in case if you’re on mute. Hello? Yes, please go ahead with your question. So my question is regarding the 1500 crores revenue guidance. So we did around 70 crores revenue this year. So how do we plan on doubling our revenue from here?
Manish Kiri
Yes. So what. What we are planning to do currently is. Is trying to add more and more value added products without incurring any capex. Our current. Our current capacities are underutilized. We are utilizing only 42% capacity of entire install capacity of KIRI on standalone basis on all plants. So we will be ramping up our capacities and ramping up with value added products with improvement of product mix. So that product mix improvement would actually drive the revenue as well as profit growth. Both. And we are adding lot more dye intermediates which are replacing Chinese imports. And that will also help us to increase our capacity utilization. So it is pure capacity utilization and product mix improvement. There is no investment which is taking place in the company for the dies and. And interpreted.
Sandeep Raj
Okay. And this 1500 crore is complete top line, right? This does not include the other income which is the share from jv, right?
Manish Kiri
No, no, no, no, no, no. It’s come. It’s. It’s a top line of the company. Correct.
Sandeep Raj
Okay. And what is the profit share that we expect from GV in FY26
Manish Kiri
From profit from JV?
Sandeep Raj
Yeah.
Manish Kiri
JV will. Will make a beta somewhere in the range of 150 to 200 crores. To 200 crores.
Sandeep Raj
And we have a share of 40% if I’m not wrong, right?
Manish Kiri
Yes. We have 40% share. Correct.
Sandeep Raj
Okay. So that’s it for me. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ankit Bhagrecha from Bagration Advisory. Please go ahead.
Ankit Bagrecha
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. I had a question regarding diced our sale. So by what time is the management expecting to receive the amount in the account?
Manish Kiri
So that is a. There is a fixed rate which has been decided by the receiver. And the fixed date is October 2, 2025. So. So the amount has to credit it to period’s account either before October 2nd or last date is October 2nd, 2025.
Ankit Bagrecha
Okay. Thank you. And any plans to reward the shareholders from the amount to be received?
Manish Kiri
Yes, yes, yes. As we have informed earlier, there will be certain part which will be rewarding to the shareholders. Yes.
Ankit Bagrecha
Thank you. Okay, that’s it. From my side. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Apeksha Agarwal from Intellect Capital. Please go ahead.
Apeksha Agarwal
Thank you for taking my question. So, one thing I want to understand on the copper business since it’s a main, your sourcing is commodity driven and it has been quite volatile in terms of pricing in the recent past. When to understand, when we go through production and selling, do you intend to have a pass through model or absorption of this cost? If you could give me a broad level understanding of how copper price volatility will kind of reflect on our company’s ebitda guidance of 8 to 12%.
Manish Kiri
As I, as I mentioned earlier, if you look at the copper pricing over a longer term trajectory, you know better than me that it is upward. So when you talk about three years, five years from now, you are talking about $15,000 a ton, $18,000 a tonne. So it’s expected to go on a long term basis. It may fluctuate short term, but overall the trajectory could be positive for 10, 20 or 25 years. Number one. Number two, as I explained earlier, the way we have tried to disconnect, you know, with the volatility is to, is to sell value added products and to produce value added products. So there are three buckets of profitability that we try to capture. One is the value addition by selling the value added copper products, the consumer products and not pure cathodes. Number two, with the improved technology, with a new investment and today’s technology is energy efficient, lesser power consumption, more yields, lesser recycling and all those benefits. Right. And so these are the two main drivers. Right. And third driver would also be how efficiently we are able to source and how we are able to, you know, generate precious metal recovery. So copper plant is not only a copper plant. Copper plant produces quite a lot of gold and silver as you know. Correct. So the higher the amount of recovery we make on gold and silver, that would also be the third element that will add to the profitability of the entire business.
Apeksha Agarwal
Right, sir. And sir, a follow up on the question which was answered earlier. Crore of top line, predominantly utilization of the existing capacity and ramping up new products such that you have value added product adding into it. If you could entertain the question, so what was the bottleneck of ramping up till now like? Why were we not being able to do it? Was there a macroeconomic indication?
To play or something where we were not able to do this earlier which you envisage doing it this year.
Manish Kiri
I think certain series of products which we couldn’t introduce in the market earlier, we could not, we could not develop those dye intermediates, you know. And if you are aware there are certain products on which now QCO has done so quality control order would make the import of certain intermediates quite difficult in India. Right. Because the BIS has been made mandatory and that has allowed us to have more sales on domestic market by increasing our capacity and selling more quantity into domestic market which would be basically replacing Chinese imports of intermediates into India. So certain policy changes which are helping now, you know, certain product ranges which we could not develop and add before, which are being added now. So these are the combination of factors which allowed us to keep the ambitious target.
Apeksha Agarwal
Right sir, thank you so much sir, thank you.
Operator
The next question comes from the line of Bavisha Daluka from Aventus Capital. Please go ahead, please go ahead with your question and unmute yourself in case.
Bhavishya Daluka
Yes, yes please. In terms of the fertilizer segment, what kind of industry outlook are we looking at in terms of top line and the midterm and how much of the residue from the copper will be used for the raw materials to make fertilizer. So something upon that.
Manish Kiri
So just to answer your question, you know copper smelter makes lot of sulfuric acid and that sulfuric acid is being converted to phosphoric acid then phosphoric fertilizers. So with, with half a million ton of copper we expect to produce 1 million ton of fertilizer. And fertilizer profit is minimum. It is not the profit driving element for the entire business model but it is more of a byproduct and more of a disposal of sulfuric acid in the form of manufacturing of fertilizers. Correct. So current business model has less than 5% of, of you know, of ABECA from the, from the fertilizer sales. So and the quant and the revenue number is also much, much lesser. Right. So you are not looking at a profit contributor from the fertilizer but you are looking at byproduct sales generating some revenue and recovering all the cost of manufacturing.
So that is. That is how we look at the business angle of fertilizer along with the copper sp.
Bhavishya Daluka
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vignesh from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead.
Vignesh
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. So my first question is, wanted to Understand if in Q4 at Sandal 11 have we incurred any further expense related to legal charges?
Manish Kiri
Yes, yes, there were legal expenses and significant legal expenses in this quarter also. Correct. So whatever numbers, numbers you see are post legal expenses. Correct.
Vignesh
So I mean since the resolution has been reached, can you expect that this number to go to minimum at least in, in the further quarter?
Manish Kiri
Yes, of course, of course. From. From this month onwards, from June onwards, we are actually expecting the legal expenses to go half. So to give you a number perspective, right. We were running between, you know, somewhere close to 12 crore to 15, 16 crore including receivers cost. Okay? So that is the number that we, we have been looking at every quarter. So that may reduce to half
Vignesh
Okay
Manish Kiri
Right. So that would still incur around 7, 8 crore per quarter. Because the receiver receivers cost, receivers cost is going to continue to incur from the liquidity perspective, right? Because both the shareholders are paying today half, half. Correct. Right. But as for the court order, as per the court order, we will get it fully paid along with 5.33% interest. So whatever we have paid to receiver, everything is going to come back with interest from the sales proceeds, Right? Perfect. Perfect. So if. So if I understand it right, since we have been, you know, debiting our expense, I mean we are putting it through our regular pnl, all this legal expenses, would it be fair to say that the, you know, accumulated loss for last five years has been around 250 crore at standalone level. So, so it would be fair to say that whenever we receive this legal expenses as interest, that will be a pass through and there would be no tax on that part at least to the tune of two.
Vignesh
Exactly, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So we will be able to offset that, you know, when we, when we, our liability of tax comes.
Manish Kiri
Right, right, right sir.
I get it. Perfect. So only second. Second thing. So I see. I mean I thought the legal expenses might not have come in this quarter, but still we have ended up with a 4 1/2% OPM. So just wanted to understand, is this primarily because of backward integration of sulfuric acid or how or as the product mix changed a bit in this quarter?
Vignesh
I think product mix has made a major contribution. So the product mix has. Has given us a little better margins. And. And because the prices didn’t improve in this quarter, prices in fact the average sale price has reduced in this quarter. Correct. But still. Still we got. Still we got better profitability because of the product mix. Got it. Got it. Just one last question from my side, sir. Wanted to understand are we considering nonsense Kiwi does a better product mix compared to what our standalone does. Have we ever considered to buy out that 60% stake from the proceeds that we are getting?
Manish Kiri
We have already tried. We attempted. We sent a proposal to the partner on the other side. But I think it would be a separate negotiation. We would be 100% interested to buy out the partner stake in option. Absolutely. But it all depends on how. How things unfold and how negotiations take place post closure of Daisa.
Vignesh
Thank you. Thank you, sir. That’s all from my side.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes on the line of Nathan Sharma from Seaburg. Please go ahead.
Nitin Sharma
Thank you for taking my question. I’m not sure if you already what happens in case Longsheng backed out from acquiring lower stakes.
Manish Kiri
So let me. Let me try to. Let me try to highlight you few things here. Okay. The. The currently what receiver has done is considered Longshan, a listed company of China as a. As a signatory and as a purchaser, as the highest bidder, you know, to buy Die Star. Correct. Now. Now you know, being. Being a being, you know. And that gives Long Sen to be responsible and accountable to close the deal. As for the commitment they have given to the court, giving commitment to the receiver is as good as giving commitment to the court. So either they honor their commitment to the court and complete the transaction before October 2nd or if they don’t do it, or if.
Receiver sees that certain. Certain conditions, you know, subsequent which they have to deliver. If they are. If receiver is seeing some delays in that or some lacuna in terms of compliance or inability from longchain site. Let us say they. They monitor July, they monitor August and they realize that. Well, you know, they don’t think these guys are going to be able to meet the October 2nd date or they haven’t gotten the regulatory permission, you know, there is a denial, there is some issue. Then receiver can decide to terminate this also and. And hand over to the second bidder. Correct. Now so, so or on October 2nd if they fail, then this will go to the next bidder. Whoever is the second bidder is going to get this and they are going to then come in. So that is how this is going to happen. And if long since default, they will face the consequences.
Nitin Sharma
Understood. And second question related to this. What is the.
Manish Kiri
And please, please remember. Please. Yeah. Please remember that Daisa’s cash is almost 650 million today. Which is as good as. Which is as good as the amount that Kiri has to receive.
Nitin Sharma
Understood? Understood. Fair enough. Second question. Yeah. What is this additional amount that could also come made mentioned in the release? If you can just explain.
Manish Kiri
Yeah. The. Yeah. The. The additional 20 million accounts for two things, right? Some part of it will come to Kiri as an additional interest. Because today interest is already running on $604 million. So. So if the interest amount exceeds the total the. The. You know, the. The award plus interest of 676. Let us say if the. Along with the interest amount it comes to 685. So then this additional 20 million will be used to pay the additional interest amount to Kiri and it will also be used to pay the cost to the receiver. Whatever. Whatever receiver has to receive from this. So it will account for both.
Nitin Sharma
Understood. Thank you.
Manish Kiri
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Amit Mehendale from Robo Capital. Please go ahead.
Amit Mehendale
Thanks for the follow up. Sir, my question is on the earlier comment that the B has become mandatory now. Just wanted to check what is the effective date for that and do you see any positive impact on overall dye intermediary space because of this?
Manish Kiri
I think it is. It is going to be having positive effect for overall overall dyes industry in general. That is my belief for.
For a fundamental reason that, you know, intermediate prices have been very low over a long time. And imports, especially imports from China used to put a cap on the prices in India. Now with QCO in place and BIS already implemented. Right. There will be a mandatory compliance on the quality. And for adjusted and vinyl cell phone, it was to start from May 13, but the government has extended it for three more months. So Aug. 13 is the exact date on which the QCO will be enforced in India for DICE intermediates. That will give a positive impact on the price improvements of intermediates and also price improvements on the dyes as well. So I think there would be some changes in the overall price structure in India as well as for exports.
Amit Mehendale
Right, thanks. And my second question is on the, you know, could you share some details of the like the second highest bidder?
Manish Kiri
Well, I don’t have it actually because it’s a confidential information that receiver has not also shared us. But what I learned from the market because, because the, you know, the longstand bid was around $1.9 billion. Okay. Now my market information and market intelligence suggests that the next one is in the range of 1.6 billion. Perfect. Okay, that’s it. Okay. But any. Anyway, it is, it is, it is much higher than what Kiryasu received. So it doesn’t matter.
Amit Mehendale
Yeah, yeah, I was just looking to see the size. I was hoping that it is higher than 1.3, 1.4 billion. Just ballpark number.
Manish Kiri
Yeah, yeah, it is.
Amit Mehendale
Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ankit from Fusion Capital. Please go ahead.
Ankit
Hello. Yes and goodbye. So I wanted to understand the root cause for like we mentioned in the last phone call for 31st of March. So is it postponed to 2nd of October? So like what was the reason for that?
Manish Kiri
See that the binding period closed at, at March 7th. Okay. So that was date which was the firm date and that date was not extended. So March 7th was the date on which the the beats binding bits ended. Then the receiver negotiated or you know, receiver communicated with several bidders and I suppose if I am not wrong,
There were four binding bids. Okay. And then receiver tried to negotiate or try to discuss with every one of them. And, and then based on the, on the receiver’s judgment they decided to go with Longson as the highest bidder, close to 1.9 billion. And that took them from March 7 to I believe, you know, May 2 or May 7. So there were two months they took in this process, correct. Scrutinizing bid and deciding the bid and then coming to, to a final bidder and then they started to negotiate an SBA with them, conditions with them, you know, so, so that took another a month or so. So I think, I think the receiver’s internal target was to complete the self purchase agreement and execute it by end of May, which they did. Okay. And even in original process there was a three months to four months requirement when, when Deloitte submitted the original plan to the court. So, so signing of SPA and then, and then completing the conditions and closing would take another three to four months time. And I think with some leniency they have given four months time because I remember there was a legal opinion received by the receiver that Longshan would need Chinese approvals and Chinese capital control approvals and ODI approvals for buying especially 37.57% of Kirishai. So those approvals requirements actually contemplated even if there were some other bidder, you know, non compete approvals, lot of other things. So three months was already stipulated and I think one month addition is given and that is how October 2nd date has been decided with the negotiation between the parties. Parties were receiver and the purchaser. We were not involved in the negotiation process.
Ankit
Okay, understood. And in this case let’s say this first bidder does not get, get on time then for the second bidder they will again give four months or what time to the second bidder.
Manish Kiri
I, I think, I think the, the receiver has, has, has kept the competitive spirit alive. Okay. So the, the second bidder would also have at some point in time access to the information SPA negotiations and closing conditions. Right. Parallel to when the long chain is concluding. So I don’t think receiver is going to wait because let us say if long chain fails on October 2nd, receiver has to close it by December 31st because December 31st is God’s long stop.
Date, it cannot extend beyond it. So the second bidder has to be prepared, ready and closed before 31st of December.
Ankit
Okay. And lastly.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt. Ankit, those were your two questions. Could you please.
Manish Kiri
That is the. That is the termination. That is the close. That. That is the date that cannot be changed.
Ankit
Yeah, got it, Got it.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vivek Joshi from Pandar Punj Capital llp. Please go ahead.
Vivek Joshi
Yes, this is. Thank you for all the clarifications. Am I audible? Yes, yes. Please go ahead. Yeah, I wanted to know that this. What are the conditions in which we get the 20 million? And in your reference you also had a line that this amount could be further adjusted. So is it like. It could be downward adjusted also or upper adjusted? And does this amount include all the legal cost and all also it’s a total amount or those costs will come anyway.
Manish Kiri
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Please, please understand. So there are. There are few things. Why it is adjustment mentioned? Because adjustment could be. If you look at the number, number is the precise number. Okay. And why it is a precise number? Because the number is estimating 676 million is only 604 million of interest of the, of the, of the main award. And the interest on the main. Or when you put that together it becomes 676 million. Correct. So that is one part. Correct. Then what is left for PD to receive is a legal cost and the interest on legal cost. So legal cost and interest on legal cost at 5.33% per year is running from 2022. So 22, 23, 24. So all these years, you know, and the legal cost itself was 8 and half million Singapore dollar plus interest. So all put together. So legal cost plus interest. And then if there is any additional interest, let us say if it is two weeks more then more interest than the computation date, then another interest will be added plus the receiver’s amount to be given to receiver fees is to be paid to receiver. So all, all these additional, you know, is part of this 20 million. So let us say it is not enough. Then this is all closed and it is to be another 3 million, okay, added or 4 million added. Then it to be adjusted upward. Let us say when the computation come precise and Long Shen concludes the deal maybe earlier, maybe the phase in August. Let us assume right. So then there will be some reduction. So instead of then 20 million it would be 18 million or 19 million or whatever the number it comes to. So that is 20 million could be either upward, right. If the fees of receiver is.
More or the cost of. Or the interest amount is more or it could be downward if long and pays earlier than the due date. That that’s the adjustment of 20 million up or down.
Vivek Joshi
Okay, that is. That was very clear. Just one more thing I wanted to know. On the balance sheet you have a consolidation asset of around 2,800 crores which you have been consolidating the profit of dice are. Will that be. Yes, sold as an asset. Like will that be the cost of the asset and we’ll get the tax benefit or no?
Manish Kiri
No, we don’t get a tax benefit on that? No. I think our advice was no, because that was the asset and it was the book value of the asset that is there in the company’s books. Correct.
Vivek Joshi
So. So that amount will just get removed from the balance sheet, right?
Manish Kiri
Yes, it will. Exactly. It will remove from the balance sheet and replaced by the. The proceeds of sale of assets. Exactly.
Vivek Joshi
Yeah. But that asset will not be treated as cost of asset. The cost of asset will be the original one.
Manish Kiri
No, no, that won’t be treated because cost of asset would be the original one. And then because it would be capital gain that we will have to pay on the original.
Vivek Joshi
So just to finally confirm, the 676 cr is confirmed. It would be after plus something. Yes, that amount to be decided. Right.
Manish Kiri
So 676 is 604 plus interest cost.
Vivek Joshi
And interest cost has been calculated till which date?
Manish Kiri
Interest cost is calculated till October 2.
Vivek Joshi
So if they give earlier. So if the 676 could also be less. Is that. Is that why. Is that correct?
Manish Kiri
Yeah. So. Yeah. So if they pay earlier. So instead of reducing 606 the idea that receiver has they. That they kept this tax to be fixed to be paid to kiri. But the 20 million will be adjusted.
Vivek Joshi
So. But so what is the cost to the. So the sale amount for the D car would be 603 only. The rest will be as other income, right? 6. 6. No, no. 600. Yes, exactly. Rest would be the other income. Exactly. So that would be the interest income.
Manish Kiri
Okay. Okay. So the. The capital gains would be applicable on only the 603 million. Whatever. Rest only. Only on 63. Yes, whatever. Rest countries. Yes, it will be fully. And our losses of three years would be adjusted against it. Okay. Against that income. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. In the interest of time we will take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks.
Manish Kiri
Thank you all for participating in today’s conference call. I wish you all the best. Stay well, stay healthy and we’ll see you in the next call. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Kiri Industries that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.