Kilburn Engineering Ltd (BSE: 522101) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 22, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Ranjit Lala — Managing Director
Amritanshu Khaitan — Non-Executive Director
Sachin J. Vijayakar — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Vinay Pandit — Analyst
Agastya Dave — Analyst
Sagar Shah — Analyst
Atharva Shiledar — Analyst
Kartik Bhat — Analyst
Bharat Gupta — Analyst
Prem Soni — Analyst
Samir Palod — Analyst
Abhijit Mitra — Analyst
Santhosh Varma — Analyst
Naman Bhansali — Analyst
Tejash Thakkar — Analyst
Priyanka Patel — Analyst
Presentation:
Vinay Pandit — Analyst
Ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you all to the Q4 and FY ’25 Post-Earnings Conference Call of Kilburn Engineering Limited. Today on the call from the management team, we have with us Mr. Ranjit Lala, Managing Director; Mr. Amritanshu Khaitan, Director; Mr. Sachin Vijayakar, Chief Financial Officer.
As a disclaimer, I would like to inform all of you that this call may contain forward-looking statements, which may involve risks and uncertainties. Also, a reminder that this call is being recorded.
I would now request the management to detail us about the business and performance highlights for the period ended 31st March 2025, the growth plan and vision for the coming year, post which we will open the floor for Q&A.
Over to the management team.
Ranjit Lala — Managing Director
Thank you, Vinay. Good afternoon, everybody. We welcome you all to the Q4 2025 and the year-end ’25 earnings call, wherein we will apprise you of the latest update on the company and its subsidiaries.
It was another successful year for Kilburn Engineering driven by sustained demand, strategic acquisition and capacity expansion at our Ambernath factory and M.E. Energy Pune. We completed the acquisition of Monga Strayfield on 27th Jan 2025. Also, the Ambernath factory is now fully operational. Furthermore, it’s been a year since M.E. Energy was acquired. The Phase 1 expansion, which was completed in the middle of the year, is also fully operational.
As mentioned earlier, the sustained demand has led to highest-ever order intake for Kilburn at INR493 crores. Also, M.E. Energy achieved order of INR83 crores. Monga Strayfield, our recent acquisition, has also had a good order intake. As a group, we have closed the year with an order backlog of INR483 crores.
We will now give a brief of the financials already available in the public domain. Kilburn had a top line of INR335 crores for the financial year and INR102 crores for the quarter, both being the highest in respective time periods. We also achieved the highest-ever EBITDA margins. On a consolidated basis, we achieved a top line of INR425 crores with EBITDA of INR100 crores.
For the current financial year, we have an excellent inquiry pipeline of INR3,000-plus crores at a consolidated level, and we hope to have a conversion rate of 20% to 25%. This would ensure sufficient backlog through the year to achieve 50% growth, which also includes full year revenue of Monga Strayfield. Going forward, we expect a CAGR of 25% to follow in the following years.
With this, I would like to hand it back to Vinay.
Questions and Answers:
Vinay Pandit
Thank you, sir. [Operator Instructions] We’ll take the first question from Agastya Dave. You can go ahead.
Agastya Dave
Thank you. Am I clearly audible?
Ranjit Lala
Yeah.
Agastya Dave
Hello, sir. I don’t know whether I should congratulate or not because on the revenue side, it was slightly light, but the margins are honestly mind-boggling. So what exactly led to such high margin levels, sir, when the revenue was slightly on the lighter side?
Also the reason for the revenue to be on the lighter side, I’m pretty — Vinay bhai and I had a discussion, and we reached the same conclusion that it has something to do with the expansions which are going on, so disruptions at your plant level. But what exactly was the reason for the lighter margin — the lighter revenue and the heavy-duty margins?
Ranjit Lala
Yeah. So on the revenue front, we still had a couple of projects which have not been — we were not able to complete them, and we had to take them to the next quarter, that is the current quarter. So that was one primary reason or a major reason, I should say. There were 2 such projects. On the margin front, if you recall, we had a project from JESA for OCP for Morocco. So that — and that execution has commenced, and that was a project with little higher margins. So this was one of the contributing factors.
Agastya Dave
Sir, that project, while it is still under execution, will the margins continue to be like this? Or this was just a bump-up at the initialization phase and then we will taper down to the — like mean revert back to the original margins?
Ranjit Lala
See, Agastya, we’ve always mentioned that we will be able to maintain margins on 20-plus basis. And to be more specific, between 20 and 22, this is what we expect. Now there could be some quarters like when it jumps up, it goes down slightly. I think last quarter, it was around 23. So this keeps happening. This keeps happening.
Amritanshu Khaitan
Agastya, this margin which Ranjit is guiding for is at a consolidated basis. So one thing which is very clear is that you have to look at Kilburn Engineering in a consolidated form because there’s going to be work which M.E. Energy does for Kilburn, Kilburn does for M.E. There will be a lot of movement around in order flows, execution. We will try to leverage the strengths of all the organizations put together to deliver a consolidated performance.
So when we are guiding for between 20% to 22%, that is the range we are guiding at a consolidated level. There’s still one order which is on hold, where we had a large order from Granules which had come. We are still working with them on their pilot part of the order, which hopefully in the next 3, 4 months should get completed, then that order will go into commercial production. So that’s a INR70-odd crore order, which we had hoped by the third, fourth quarter of last year, it will get into execution. That also has been on hold.
So those are the reasons why there has been a postponement in execution for certain jobs, but we are very happy that we’ve been able to make up on the EBITDA front through other profitable orders. So the product mix had been better.
Agastya Dave
Yeah. The margins are like really, really nice, really, really nice. Sir, one final question. You mentioned that the order pipeline and inquiries are at INR3,000 crores plus now. Last quarter, if I remember correctly, you were saying INR2,000 crores. Is it because of like consolidation? Or is it just an increase and expansion in the inquiry flow?
Ranjit Lala
Well, if you recall, last year, it was INR2,000 plus for both M.E. Energy and Kilburn put together. And now we also have Monga Strayfield. So between the 3 of us at consolidated level, we have INR3,000 crores plus. So we are getting more inquiries than before, that’s for sure. Yes. And in the past, probably the inquiries that we are looking at were also — if you look at the value, they would have been INR100 crores or INR60 crores, INR80 crores. Now we are looking at bigger inquiries. So that’s how the whole pipeline has grown.
Agastya Dave
Understood, sir. Sir, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity. All the best, sir. The numbers are actually pretty decent, sir. Pretty decent. If it’s a spillover effect, we’ll see it in the next quarter. My congratulations, sir. Thank you very much, sir. All the best.
Ranjit Lala
Next two quarters. Yeah. Thank you.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Sagar Shah. Sir, you can unmute and go ahead, please.
Sagar Shah
Good evening, sir. And first of all, congratulations to the entire team of Kilburn Engineering for posting such a healthy operating performance actually. Now my first question was related to actually M.E. Energy. M.E. Energy in this year, we posted around INR77 crores of revenue. And as far as I remember, last year, you said that M.E. Energy, due to its working capital constraints, wasn’t able to take larger orders. It was just confined to small boilers and those sort of products.
So in this particular year also, we didn’t see some material growth from M.E. Energy, and that is why the Kilburn Engineering on a consolidated basis actually missed our estimates. So first of all, can you say about M.E. Energy that what needs — is there some execution lag or maybe some longer gestation period so that we maybe see some good growth in FY ’26 or whatever color that you want to at least spread on M.E. Energy, sir?
Amritanshu Khaitan
Ranjit, if I can take this point, I think as I mentioned earlier, you need to now look at Kilburn Engineering in a consolidated basis. The figure which you’re talking about M.E. Energy, that is net of certain turnover, which is coming in the stand-alone numbers as well. They get net off because they are orders — some orders which Kilburn has got, but M.E. has executed it. So actual execution of M.E. Energy is close to INR95 crores. But it gets net off because it’s a subsidiary of Kilburn.
So you have to look at Kilburn as a whole achieving INR425 crores. Our opening order book is INR480 crores. We strongly believe we will deliver a 50% CAGR growth this year on the basis of this consolidated opening order. And then the year after, we are looking at a 25% to 30% growth because, again, you’ll have the Monga Strayfield acquisition full impact coming into this year.
So unfortunately, because you had both the acquisitions happening in the month of February in both consecutive years, the quarter 4 numbers are not at all comparable to each other. So you have to look at the consolidated yearly performance. If you add Monga Strayfield also, actually, the year of Monga Strayfield had been close to INR80 crores, but only INR12 crores is being reflected in the balance sheet.
So when you look at where we are today and the money we have spent to acquire Monga Strayfield, the company is already at a INR500 crore top line level with a higher EBITDA. But that EBITDA and top line has got lost because that’s how accounting happens.
Sagar Shah
Yeah, because of the intercompany transactions that you are referring to?
Amritanshu Khaitan
And also because the acquisition had happened in the month of February. So the whole year’s turnover last year of Monga — of M.E. did not come in, and this year of Monga has not come in. So we are looking kind of 50% CAGR growth for this coming year, the year we are in now, FY ’26, on the base of INR425 crores. And we are looking at 25% to 30% growth in the following year.
Sagar Shah
Sure, sir. So my question was at least for FY ’26, since M.E. Energy is penetrating into cement and some, it is — now it has capable to take some even larger orders actually as high as INR100 crores also. Obviously, the period that will take to build these products will be longer time. But at least on M.E. Energy on a stand-alone level and especially when the Phase 2 capex also will be over, if I assume by at least by H2 — H1 FY ’26, so at least, can we expect at least a decent 50% growth from M.E. Energy on a stand-alone level, I’m saying.
Amritanshu Khaitan
So again, I would like to highlight that this year, we have grown by 30% if you look at M.E. Energy stand-alone. We believe we should continue to grow at between 20% to 30% for the stand-alone business. But again, my only request to the investor community is don’t look at M.E. Energy as a separate company. Look at it as a separate manufacturing facility because there will be a lot of work of Kilburn also which will get offloaded into the expanded plant of M.E. Energy in Pune.
So M.E. Energy will be making air preheaters, paddle dryers, maybe some tea dryers as well because we will leverage our strengths as a group to deliver the best products at the best prices to our customers. So it is not appropriate to look at M.E. Energy as a separate going concern, but as part of the consolidated Kilburn Group.
The question you had on cement industry, it’s early days. We have got one order which we are executing. And we are going to work with — we are approaching various cement companies to get into that sector. So hopefully, in the next 2 to 5 years period or 3 to 5 years, you should see M.E. Energy scale up the play in cement to a much more substantial number, but these things take time. It’s not going to happen overnight.
Sagar Shah
Okay. Sure, sir. My next question was related to Monga Strayfield as well as to our Ambernath acquisition. Now with Ambernath acquisition, our capability actually to build products has also increased. Recently, you took a large order for around 4 rotary dryers also. So basically, at least from Ambernath and from Monga, can we expect optimum utilization since you have a large order book of nearly around INR435 crores — closing order book, I’m speaking. So that is one thing.
And the second one, can you throw some light on the order inflow that I know INR3,000 crores worth of inquiries, but obviously, to convert those inquiries into revenue, you must have got some clarity that how is the demand at least from certain sectors on ground. So can you throw some light related to order inflow also?
Ranjit Lala
On the order inflow front, as I said, we would have a conversion of around 20% to 25%. So if we’re having a INR3,000 crore pipeline, so you can expect INR600 crores to INR700 crores of order intake, okay?
On the Ambernath factory, as I said, it is fully operational. So I would say that whatever we had targeted, INR100 crores of addition into the turnover, that should happen in the current year. Yes. So that will definitely again contribute to the top line, but that is anyway an asset of Kilburn. It’s not an acquired company. It’s a unit of Kilburn now. So both these are well on track.
On the M.E. Energy front, you mentioned that the Phase 2 expansion should get completed by H2 — by H1 end. It will be somewhere around, I think, middle of H2. This is what I can guess as of now. And on that, we’ll keep you updated. On the Monga Strayfield, you had a question on what could be the top line contribution?
Sagar Shah
Yes. And how are things panning out now? Because you were quite a bit on the industrial dryers front because of opening of FMCG and other sectors due to this acquisition. So how is this panning out for you when you talk to the customers of maybe of Monga Strayfield? And how are the synergies can be built in this particular year?
Ranjit Lala
Year. Monga Strayfield is into RF dryers, which is a very, very niche market. And I think we are well placed with the customers, and we are looking at some exhibitions and some trials for new applications, which is very much on track. Now how much top line do we expect from them? Well, I would say that anything between INR90 crores to INR110 crores is what we are looking at. Yes. But as we go forward, we’ll be more clear about the numbers. But again, as I said, we don’t want to look at each of these companies by themselves. We are targeting consolidated top line.
Sagar Shah
Okay. And sir, just last couple of questions on data keeping. First of all, can you highlight that — are we something like going ahead, how are we going to utilize the money actually? Because in this particular year, around — you’ll be getting around INR200 crores from the issuance of your shares that you have done before to public shareholders, so around INR200 crores of money that you’ll be receiving this year. So any plans that you have built for some new acquisitions or — and that is one thing.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Yeah. Correct.
Sagar Shah
Okay. So can you throw some light, sir, that how are you planning to utilize this money or still the plan is not really made?
Ranjit Lala
No, no, the plan was very much made. In fact, there was a plan. That’s the reason why a certain amount was raised. The breakup, I would request Sachin to give it to you.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
We have already taken a shareholder approval where the utilization was mentioned. Part of it will go towards capex, part will be going towards repayment of our term loan. Part of that will be towards investment into our subsidiaries. And balance, we will decide that it’s for working capital as well as some general corporate use. So as and when opportunities come, that will be accordingly utilized. And another being that by this year-end, because we have got 18 months, so something of that may spill over to the next year also.
Sagar Shah
Okay. Okay, fine, sir. And just last thing on the gross margins. I know you have guided that you are aiming for 20-plus percent-plus EBITDA, and this is a project business. Every contract has a different numerical values attached to it. But on the gross margin front, I wanted to stress on that this quarter was a phenomenal quarter for at least for the gross margins perspective. So overall, the gross margins, even if the metal prices go high, so our gross margins will relatively stay stable at around — in the last few years that we have got at around?
Amritanshu Khaitan
Regarding gross margin, we don’t want to give any detailed explanation because sometimes what happens is certain costs come into materials, some subcontracting work happens. It’s basically deferring to different jobs. So we restrict ourselves to guiding for EBITDA.
Sagar Shah
Okay. Sure, sir. No problem. Thank you so much, sir, for answering my questions and all the best, sir. Thank you, sir.
Amritanshu Khaitan
Good. Thank you. Sagar.
Vinay Pandit
We’ll take the next question from the line of Atharva Shiledar. You can unmute and go ahead, please.
Atharva Shiledar
Sir, am I audible?
Ranjit Lala
Yeah, you are audible, Atharva.
Atharva Shiledar
Actually, I want to ask on a consolidated basis, our revenue and profit growth is very good. But sir, our CFO is not good for many years. So currently, our — on a consolidated basis, CFO is negative INR10 crores. So sir, can you explain, sir? Can you come again?
Vinay Pandit
He is asking about cash flow from operations.
Ranjit Lala
Okay. Sachin can?
Atharva Shiledar
Actually, cash flow is negative INR10 crores for this year, but our revenue and profit growth is very good. So sir, I want to understand what is the problem, sir? Why cash flow conversion is not happening?
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Atharva, am I audible?
Ranjit Lala
Yeah, you’re audible, Sachin. Go ahead.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Atharva, if you see our — with the long delivery of our projects and the time cycle taken, there’s a buildup of debtors as well as our unbilled revenue, the contract assets. In the last month itself of March, we have dispatched around INR30 crores to INR40 crores of billing has been done. So that has led to an increase in our debtors also. And even though the cash flow from operations is negative, we have put in funds for the buildup of this inventory through this share issue as well as certain ICDs, which we have taken from our subsidiary companies. So it has been — that is why?
Amritanshu Khaitan
I would like to add, you see, one reason why you will see that the stand-alone balance sheet has a loan — term loan, which has come in short-term term loan, it is actually from Monga Strayfield only. So in your cash flow statement, there’s a variance because the company paid extra to Monga Strayfield shareholders because they were sitting on INR30 crores of cash balance. So once the acquisition was completed, we’ve taken that as an ICD back in our books and M.E. Energy’s books.
Atharva Shiledar
Okay. Sir, I have another question. So sir, can you give guidance for the CFO to PAT conversion for the next year, sir? I just want to know how do you see CFO to PAT conversion, sir, going forward?
Amritanshu Khaitan
Sales to PAT?
Atharva Shiledar
No, no, sir. CFO to PAT?
Vinay Pandit
Cash flow from operations to PAT.
Atharva Shiledar
Conversion, sir, on a percentage basis, how do you see, sir, going forward? For example, if PAT is INR100 crores and cash flow is INR40 crores, it means 40% conversion. So sir, how do you see going forward, sir? That’s what I was.
Amritanshu Khaitan
I think this is a little difficult to predict because it depends on the kind of order booking we get this year, the kind of growth the company is doing. But I can only tell you that we are adequately capitalized and cash flow will not be a concern because there will be free cash flows generated and also there will be equity money which will come in for working capital as well. But it’s very difficult to predict what you are saying because it also depends on what order booking we will do and then how much of that goes into execution.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Also, the conversion will help on cash flows.
Vinay Pandit
Okay sir. Thank you. We’ll move to the next participant. We’ll take the next question from Mr. Kartik Bhat. Karthik, you can unmute and go ahead, please.
Kartik Bhat
Yeah, I hope I’m audible. My question is on the capacity, sir. I think in an earlier call also, you had mentioned that the Ambernath unit is likely to be at about 100% or so by June and the Saravali unit is likely to be at around 70% to 80%. And M.E. Phase 1, I think, is also again at 100%. So how do we — how are we placed with respect to capacity for FY ’26? I mean, do we feel the need for maybe expanding capacity to meet the demand for FY ’27?
Ranjit Lala
Well, as far as Ambernath is concerned, yes, it is now at 100% fully operational. M.E. is also 100%, and we said that we look at Phase 2 expansion for M.E., right? So that should add to capacity. And we had also mentioned that we are looking at a brownfield expansion at Saravali, but that we will do at the right time. It is very much on the plans. And as it really takes shape, we will keep you posted. Yes. And I’m sure it will be very clear by end of quarter 1.
Kartik Bhat
Okay. Okay, sure, sir. And just one clarification. I think the other expenses, if we were to look at, there’s been a reasonable jump Y-o-Y to about INR23 crores or so. What factor led to this increase, sir, at the consolidated level?
Amritanshu Khaitan
We’ve had certain jobs where there’s a lot of freight involved. I think that goes into other expenses. Sachin can confirm.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Yes, right.
Amritanshu Khaitan
But that is all factored in, in the margin. Some export jobs were there where there was high freight.
Kartik Bhat
Okay. Okay, sure. And sir, I think it was good to see — if I were to look at the order book composition, nuclear comprised about 45% to 50% of the new order inflow in Q4, so something which wasn’t there in the past, which is really heartening to see. So do we have more inquiries in the pipeline in FY ’26 as well? And can we see — expect a decent order inflow from nuclear for this year also?
Ranjit Lala
Yeah. So in our previous calls, we had mentioned that we are looking at the nuclear power also contributing in the coming quarters. So we did convert one into an order. This was from L&T because L&T is the EPC contractor for that particular job. There is one more project on which we are working, which is probably of the same value. So as of now, one more project is visible. And as and when we go forward and we have more opportunities, we will keep you updated.
Kartik Bhat
Sure. Okay. Sir, this INR650 crores to INR700 crores which you had in the revenue guidance, which you had mentioned, I think, in an earlier call, seems comfortable now for FY ’26?
Ranjit Lala
Yeah. I think we are comfortable on that because now the capacities are also — have been added. And well, there’s always a slippage, as I said, by a quarter, which I hope will be taken care of for one of the projects. I don’t see a challenge.
Kartik Bhat
Yeah. And sir is it fair to say that — so this higher growth trajectory in FY ’26 would mainly — is mainly being driven by the OCP Morocco order as well as this Granules project that you mentioned. And thereafter, in FY ’27, while we are guiding for about 20%, 25% as of now, if we were to receive a similar higher-value order, I mean, maybe as and when we will revise — we may revise the guidance as well during the course of the next year. Is that a fair assumption?
Ranjit Lala
Mr. Khaitan, you are muted. I think Mr. Khaitan wants to speak.
Amritanshu Khaitan
When we are looking at 25%, 30% growth in FY ’27, that is based on the current inquiry pipeline which is there. So if we are able to convert 20%, 25% of the current inquiry pipeline, then automatically, the following year, the growth numbers should be achievable.
Kartik Bhat
Okay, sure. Thank you so much. And yeah, thank you so much. Thanks.
Vinay Pandit
Thanks,. We’ll take the next question from Bharat Gupta. Bharat, you can unmute and ask your query, please.
Bharat Gupta
Sure. Thanks for taking my question, sir. A couple of questions. So first, when we look at the customer deferment which has happened, so what kind — can you specify the quantum of revenues which have got spilled over to quarter 1?
Ranjit Lala
Sachin, can you take that?
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Nearly INR50 crores to INR60 crores of revenues.
Bharat Gupta
Right. And we’ll be able to see it in quarter 1, right or it is also spillover.
Ranjit Lala
Quarter 2.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Quarter 1, quarter 2, both.
Bharat Gupta
Okay. And I think we were looking at some sort of inorganic acquisitions, so — and that overseas. So what’s the progress in regard to it? Like it’s still under discussion or like we want to grow organically further?
Ranjit Lala
Well, right now, we would like to focus on our current subsidiaries and Kilburn, yes. But if we find something interesting, we will not hesitate to go ahead. But as of now, we are very keen on streamlining what we have.
Bharat Gupta
Thank you. Right. And sir, just a bookkeeping question, like in regard to INR650 crores or INR700 crores revenues, which we are projecting for this fiscal year, so that includes the Granules India contribution or that particular part is currently on hold?
Ranjit Lala
No. Well, it does include Granules India, but then we have sufficient backup. So we have enough orders, and I’m sure some more orders will be coming in this quarter. So overall, I don’t see a challenge.
Bharat Gupta
And on consol level, we are guiding for 20% to 22% kind of margins?
Ranjit Lala
Right.
Bharat Gupta
Okay. That’s it from my side, sir. Thanks. Thank you.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you, Bharat. We’ll take the next question from the line of Prem Soni. Prem, you can unmute and go ahead please.
Prem Soni
So thank you for the opportunity and congratulations, sir, for the good set of numbers. So sir, my question is on the order book side. Like in the PPT, we have mentioned that order book inquiry is around INR3,000 crores. So can you?
Ranjit Lala
Inquiry — sorry, that is inquiry pipeline, INR3,000 crores.
Prem Soni
Yeah. This is the order inquiry of around INR3,000 crores, right?
Ranjit Lala
Right.
Prem Soni
So about 20% or 25% is the conversion rate. So I believe INR600 crores to INR700 crores is the order book size can we expect?
Ranjit Lala
That’s our expectations as on date.
Prem Soni
So can we help — can you help us with the bifurcation in terms of the subsidiary like for Monga Stray and M.E. Energy?
Ranjit Lala
Yeah. So I can say that if it’s around INR600 crores, INR400 crores from Kilburn and INR100 crores and INR100 crores from Monga and M.E. Energy. I’m just giving you a broad number.
Prem Soni
Okay. Yeah. And sir, additionally, if the order book that we are anticipating from INR400 crores from the Kilburn and INR100 crores and INR100 crores from the subsidiaries, so like in the subsidiary, in which sector we are anticipating from higher order from upcoming times?
Ranjit Lala
Let’s talk about Monga Strayfield. So in the past, they have had major contribution from the textile vertical and then from the food and then others. So we are expecting the food and we are expecting the non-textile business to grow much faster in this year, okay? That’s one.
On the M.E. front, it is a combination of various verticals. Definitely, our focus is on cement, but I also see the petrochemical, oil and gas vertical contributing to M.E. Energy also. And for — as far as Kilburn is concerned, it’s a mixed bag. We have inquiries from the nuclear. We have inquiries from the fertilizer. We’re expecting some inquiries from petrochemicals, carbon black; soda ash, maybe, maybe not. That depends on how the market moves. So it’s a mixed bag.
Prem Soni
Okay. And sir, by when it can be executed, like if you have tentative time line?
Ranjit Lala
Well, any orders that comes in, in Q1 and Q2, normally, the Q1 orders would get executed by the end of the year. And Q2, partially, it could get executed, I mean, because our turnaround times are between 7 to 11 months, sometimes 12 months.
Prem Soni
Okay. And sir, are we exporting these order to the overseas? Like.
Ranjit Lala
Yes. Yes, in fact, we have a good export order book. The exact number, maybe Sachin can inform, but we have very good order book on the export front also.
Prem Soni
So can we have just quantum numbers like in terms of percentage?
Ranjit Lala
Sachin, can you give this number if you have it ready? Sachin, you’re muted, I guess.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Out of the order backlog, nearly INR160 crores are export orders.
Prem Soni
INR160 crores.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Yes, rough cut on the export orders.
Ranjit Lala
You can see it has grown over years.
Prem Soni
Okay, sir. And sir, how we are like — how we are confident on the 20% to 25% of growth in the next FY ’26 and FY ’27? Like if you can give a — shed a light on that part?
Ranjit Lala
Well, the existing numbers make us feel confident. The open order book that we have, the inquiry pipeline that we have, the kind of goodwill that we enjoy with the customers, the references that we have created, both in the domestic and the international market, they are the — I would say these are the pointers towards our confidence levels.
Prem Soni
Okay. And sir, can we assume the EBITDA margins will remain same as per the FY ’25? Like.
Ranjit Lala
They will remain 20% plus at consolidated level. If you want a more specific range, I will say between 20% and 22%.
Prem Soni
Okay, fair enough. Okay, sir. Thank you and thank you. Congratulations again.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you. Okay. I would like to invite Aman Bbaheti, analyst from InCred Capital, from the chat line to ask his queries.
Ranjit Lala
Can you read out the question from the chat?
Vinay Pandit
Since there’s a posted question, you want to?
Ranjit Lala
There’s a question from Ankur Tripathi. What top line contribution is expected from Monga Strayfield acquisition in the next and subsequent financial years?
Well, Monga Strayfield contribution in terms of top line, we are targeting INR100 crores plus. This is the first year, and then we are looking at what are the opportunities, but I would expect around INR100 crores. I mentioned it’s between INR90 crores and INR100 crores — INR90 crores and INR110 crores.
As discussed in the last con call, the projected top line was INR700 crores. Considering the recent acquisitions of Monga Strayfield, I’m just reading out the question, is there an upward revision?
No. Well, let me tell you that we have just mentioned, we expect a 50% growth from the current year’s top line. I’ll stick to those figures. So whatever that works out, INR675 crores, INR700 crores, yes.
Vinay Pandit
And we’ll take the next question from Samir Palod. Samir, you can go ahead.
Samir Palod
Yes, hi. Am I audible?
Ranjit Lala
Yes, Samir. Go ahead.
Samir Palod
Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. A good set of numbers. Just one question regarding the guidance. If there is a 50% expected top line growth, let’s assume that number to be about INR650 crores. But the EBITDA guidance of between 20% and 22% is a result of what is it, that Monga and M.E. Energy are at slightly lower order book or part of your core order book in the parent company, you’re seeing at lower margins because that will then lead — if I have a 20%, 22% EBITDA margin, then the EBITDA has only INR140 crores, which will not be a full 50% jump. So I just?
Amritanshu Khaitan
So Samir, if I can — can I address that?
Samir Palod
Sure. Sure, sure.
Amritanshu Khaitan
See, we are in a project business. It is not possible for us to guide down to the nearest percentage. We have always maintained 20%-plus EBITDA margin for last many quarters, and we have successfully achieved or beaten those estimates. In a project business, when you are executing jobs, you take a job on the basis of a certain estimate. When the execution happens, there can be variances, 1% or 2% here and there. Our time line execution also can change. When we are guiding 50%, you can say 50% means that INR670 crores or INR675 crores or INR720 crores. It’s not possible for us to give you accurate numbers. There can be times when customers.
Samir Palod
Mr. Khaitan, I get that. I just wanted to know, you have already delivered 24%. So in the full year — I’m not even looking at a quarter where it is 28%. In the full year, 24%, are you — so I just wanted to know if it is conservative, that’s great. Or are you seeing slightly lower profitability orders within your order book?
Amritanshu Khaitan
So when you are looking at — when you look at the overall business, Monga Strayfield business is very profitable. So that’s at about 24%, 25%. M.E. Energy is at around 15% to 17%. So blended margin for those businesses are around 20%-odd. Kilburn is slightly higher, as we mentioned. So we are confident of between 20% to 22%.
Now when we are giving a guidance, we are giving a guidance assuming future orders, which will also come in the second half of the year. We don’t know exactly at what margin that will come. So that’s why we give a range. Now that 22% can easily be 24%, but it can also be 20%. So that’s why we are comfortable that as a management, we are looking at a 50% CAGR growth, both in top line and bottom line. Now whether that 50% becomes 45% or 52%, that’s for investors to take a microscope and look at it. It’s very difficult for management to be that accurate, especially for project business.
Samir Palod
No, I understand. I just wanted to know whether there is any sort of orders that you’re seeing which are lower margin, if you?
Amritanshu Khaitan
We are being conservative. As you mentioned, we prefer to be a little conservative. If we are able to do better, that’s good for everyone.
Samir Palod
Right. My second question is, are you — you obviously can’t disclose anything that is still in the works, but are you looking at acquisitions currently? And do you foresee anything will likely happen in FY ’26?
Amritanshu Khaitan
So we’ve done 2 acquisitions in 2 years. We believe we’ll deliver a very strong growth organically. We want to consolidate this. We have raised capital — future capital, which will come in over the period of next 1 year. So we are not concerned about cash flow. When that happens, we are always open to opportunities. If we — we have done 2 transactions which are value accretive, acquisitions which have been reasonable and have added value to the organization. If something like that comes behind it, our thought process is to be open and to look at opportunities. Maybe something will happen by end of this year, some great opportunity comes. If not, also, we are very confident on strong growth.
So we are not dependent on acquisition for growing the company. We are in discussion for technology tie-ups, and we are in advanced stage for that. So every strategy for growth does not have to be inorganic. There are technology tie-ups which we are looking at with companies in the U.S., in Europe and in Japan where once we do those tie-ups, it will open up some more opportunities for getting business. So rest assured, the management is working very hard to ensure that the momentum we have created, we would like to continue that.
Samir Palod
Just a follow-up to that. No, I understand that it doesn’t have to be an acquisition. My limited question was, are you in discussions today? Are there opportunities that you’re already seeing, which could culminate in an acquisition before the end of FY ’26?
Amritanshu Khaitan
So we are in discussions for some important technology tie-ups. We are.
Samir Palod
Right. In what area would they be, Mr. Khaitan?
Amritanshu Khaitan
In various drying solutions and heating solutions.
Ranjit Lala
Yes, we’ll always stick to our coal business. Yes. Before we move ahead, Vinay, there’s a question directly to me on chat from Mr. Gopesh Sharma. I would like to take that. What is restricting us to have order conversion rate of only 20%, 25%? Is it because of L1 criteria or we skip low-value orders or any other factor forcing us to keep the conversion to 1/4?
So Gopesh, first of all, we don’t operate on L1 basis. I would like to say that, and we have made it clear in the past because we work with our customers very closely. So we are not always on the L1 basis. But if required, if we need to bag a job, we take a call whether we should follow this strategy. Our strategy depends on what orders we want to bag and how well loaded we are.
What are the other factors? Well, there are many factors, how important the job is to us, how important the customer is to us, whether we have sufficient capacity to handle that. There are a number of factors. And that’s why these strategies could change from quarter-to-quarter. I hope I’ve answered that question.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you, sir. So there’s one more question in the chat. Yugal Kishore is asking, what’s your time line for NSE listing?
Amritanshu Khaitan
I don’t think we can give any particular date for that. The Board has approved it that we are going to apply for the listing, then it is up to NSE to see how — what is the process and the time line, but we can’t give a particular date.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you, sir. We’ll take the next question from Abhijit Mitra. Abhijit, can you unmute and go ahead, please.
Abhijit Mitra
Thanks for taking my question. I have a relatively simpler one. See, the orders that you have on a consolidated basis is close to INR487 crores or INR488 crores. What’s the execution cycle broadly that you see on those orders?
Ranjit Lala
As on date, I would say all that should get executed within this financial year if there are no holdups. Typically, for Kilburn, it is 7 to 11 months or 12 months. So I expect this complete portion to get executed and much more because we’ll have orders in Q1. For Monga Strayfield, the order, I would say the execution time is between 3 to 4 months, most of the time. So that will get executed, and many orders coming in the first 3 quarters can get executed. For M.E. Energy, typical execution time depends, 4 to 6 months, sometimes 8 to 9 months if it is some site execution. So it’s different for each of the companies. Whatever is the open order book today, that will definitely get executed.
Amritanshu Khaitan
I think, Ranjit, the only one which might see some spillover depending when the Granules job gets.
Ranjit Lala
Granules job, yes. But for that, we have a backup project also. So I made it very clear that Granules project, even if that spills over, we have sufficient pipeline to take care of that miss.
Abhijit Mitra
And perhaps the Morocco project, that will also be a slightly longer duration, right?
Ranjit Lala
No, we expect it to finish on time.
Abhijit Mitra
Okay, got it. Got it, understood. Understood. And just to understand, to sort of maintain a 50% growth and follow it up with 25% growth, I mean, if we have to name, say, a couple of sectors because that’s almost INR1,400 crores of top line over the next — incremental top line over the next 2 years. So if you have to sort of name, say, 1 or 2 sectors where you’re most confident which can sort of help you achieve this targeted growth rate, it will be great.
Amritanshu Khaitan
Abhijit, it’s not going to be 1 or 2 sectors. One of the biggest trends Kilburn has that we are present in multiple sectors. So you can see now with nuclear coming in, obviously, carbon black is a mainstay, fertilizers is becoming important with our entry into OCP. Then you have steel sector for M.E. Energy, which is quite important, chemical sector there.
So if you see our presentation, we are present in now multiple sectors, which actually adds to our confidence on being able to get the orders and execute and grow. And today, Monga Strayfield is bringing in the textile sector, which was earlier not there.
So I think we have a very large spread of sectors, which cushions us from any slowdown. Like, for example, soda ash as a sector has been slow due to the dumping from China. So that’s not affecting our growth today. But whenever that gets solved, you’ll have big expansions coming in, in soda ash as well. So maybe that can come a year later.
Ranjit Lala
Yeah. And I would also request, Abhijit, that you refer to our presentations in the last 4 quarters. And if you refer to the pie chart giving you the breakup of these sectors, you’ll find that it has been quite dynamic and changing. So at any point of time, a particular quarter, you would have seen one sector or one vertical contributing. But again, in the next quarter, we have something else coming up. So it’s a very dynamic situation. But yes, carbon black, petrochemicals, fertilizers, nuclear, these will be definitely the major contributors. That’s what we are seeing in the next 2 quarters.
Abhijit Mitra
Got it, got it. Understood. That’s very clear. And thanks. That’s all from my side. Wish you all the best.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you, Abhijit. Yeah, Abhijit. We’ll take a question from the chat. Mr. Keshap is asking, what was the order inquiry pipeline in FY ’24? Like it is INR3,000 crores in FY ’25. What has the growth been in inquiry pipeline?
Amritanshu Khaitan
It was INR2,000 crores.
Ranjit Lala
And now it’s INR3,000 crores. So that’s a 50% jump in the inquiry pipeline.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you. We take the next question.
Ranjit Lala
There is one more question on the chat. I think it’s already been answered. There’s a question directly to me, which says that, will the — when will the listing be done on NSE? I think this has been answered by Mr. Khaitan.
Vinay Pandit
Yeah. Thank you, sir. We’ll take the next question from Santhosh Varma. Santhosh, you can unmute and go ahead, please.
Santhosh Varma
Yeah, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I have 2 questions. The first question is regarding the international piece where what kind of exports we’re looking into and what kind of growth we’re looking into the export part? And what kind of percentage contribution we can expect in the next 2 to 3 years from international exports?
Amritanshu Khaitan
So as mentioned in earlier calls, the global market for drying solutions is close to $2 billion to $3 billion. We are, as a company, looking at focusing on exports. We believe we should be aiming to do at least 20% to 30% of our revenue from the export space, which should be the target in the next 2 to 3 years.
Santhosh Varma
Okay, sir. So exports, do we have any margin accretion where we get better margins?
Amritanshu Khaitan
Theoretically, yes, but there are times when certain jobs in India also give very high margin.
Santhosh Varma
Okay. Okay. And in exports, it will take a number of days to execute because of the supply scenario or something like that?
Amritanshu Khaitan
That doesn’t make a difference because execution will happen in India, then there’s only the dispatch and freight and depending on which geography it is that extra time line gets added. But the manufacturing process is the same.
Santhosh Varma
Okay. So this export growth which you’re looking at, will it majorly come from Monga and M.E. or Kilburn will also be part of it, like a major contribution?
Amritanshu Khaitan
It will be all three.
Ranjit Lala
All three.
Santhosh Varma
Okay. Okay, sir. My last question is regarding the working capital and all. Are we expecting it to become better? For example, from ’24 to ’25, it went up from 131 to 194 days. In the future, will we see better working capital and all?
Amritanshu Khaitan
So again, I think Mr. Sachin Vijayakar highlighted this that it is not to do with becoming better or worse. It is the nature of the business that there are certain months where there’s heavy dispatches which are taking place. And because of that, you will only see the balance sheet on 2 dates, 30th September and 30th March. So that’s why these changes happen, plus close to INR25 crores has come in as ICD from the subsidiary, which is the money we paid the shareholders of Monga Strayfield. So that also has impacted this. Sachin, if you can add?
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Yes, because once we start executing the long-dated projects and if we start taking more advances from the customers also, which we are trying, so then we will be able to maintain the — this working capital cycle of lesser number of days and better credit terms from our vendors also. So that will help us in reducing this larger working capital days.
Santhosh Varma
Understood, sir.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Thank you so much for your time and thank you for asking the question, sir. Thank you. Thank you,.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you, Santhosh. We’ll take the next question from Mr. Naman Bhansali. Naman, you can go ahead, please.
Naman Bhansali
Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and a great set of numbers. My question is on a business wherein we have been opening our business towards multiple new sectors and one of them was cement, second is pharma with Granules. So once the initial ordering of these 2 companies, maybe from Shree and Granules complete, what sort of opportunity does that open up for us into these 2 sectors? And what sort of capability have we built in by delivering to these initial projects with the 2 companies?
Ranjit Lala
So for the cement, I would say the market size would be around INR4,000 crores to INR5,000 crores. So let’s how much of it — how much of that pie we can get. That’s one. And as far as the execution skills are concerned, we very much had those skills in M.E. Energy. It was some other reasons why those large orders could not be banked. So once we have completed, we have a good reference, I’m sure we’ll have more opportunities. And the fact is that we have given a very customized solution to Shree Cement. So I’m sure we’ll have a good reference for the future. What was the other question? Can you kindly repeat?
Naman Bhansali
On the pharmaceutical side?
Ranjit Lala
On the pharma, yeah. So again, Granules, as I mentioned, this was kind of a pilot order for us for the API. And we also have to keep in mind that our end customer has to be successful in their trials. Once that is done, there will be more inquiries coming in.
Naman Bhansali
Got it. Got it. Thank you. Got it. Got it. Second question is for Mr. Sachin. What is the capex guidance for this year or maybe the next 2, 3 years?
Ranjit Lala
Sachin, I would like to answer. So as of now, I can tell you that we are targeting somewhere around INR25 crores, but that is very fluid as of now, okay? We haven’t taken a call. Probably we’ll need one more quarter to decide that. And that’s why I have not made any reference to capex in this quarter.
Naman Bhansali
Got it. Thank you. That’s it.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Tejash Thakkar. Tejash, you can go ahead, please.
Tejash Thakkar
For the opportunity. Sir, I have 2 questions. First is the current — we have 5.09 outstanding shares — 5.09 crore outstanding shares. Are we looking at further dilution? And if not, what is the — is there any ESOP that, I think, is given out? And what is the likely number that we’re going to end up in FY ’26 so that will affect the EPS at the end of the year?
Amritanshu Khaitan
Current shareholding is 4.75 crores share, not 5.09 crores. I think what you are referring to are some outstanding warrants which are there. So all that will get converted by June, July of FY ’26. So you’ll be raising a further 200 crores into the company, which is already committed in the warrants. And that will get all completed by, Sachin, June ’26 or July ’26, something like that.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
June ’26, 18 months from our issue, yes. The total capital will be 5.62 after conversion of entire conversion.
Tejash Thakkar
5.62 is it, sir?
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Right.
Amritanshu Khaitan
Yes, but that will be in FY ’27.
Tejash Thakkar
Okay. Sir, second question is, I’m just circling back to the order book. So if I understand correctly, INR487 crores is the current number. And if I — what I gather from your previous call and in this call, we need about roughly INR200 crores by end of May so that we can achieve the lower band of INR650 crores for next year. So as of April and as of May and if you can share for this.
Amritanshu Khaitan
No, it doesn’t work like that in terms of calculation. You see, when we are guiding for 50% CAGR growth, we are looking at Monga Strayfield achieving INR100 crores. Now that INR100 crores, those orders don’t come in the beginning of the year. That comes through the year. The tea business, the tea dryer business also comes, it’s a very quick execution for the company. That also comes.
Ranjit Lala
In October, November.
Amritanshu Khaitan
In the period of October to March — say, between October to December and gets executed by March. So you don’t need INR200 crores by June to achieve the numbers which we’ve spoken. Also, whatever orders we get in the third quarter up to third quarter, some part of that comes into execution. Like, for example, we got the Morocco order in September. That’s already come into execution. So I don’t think it will work like the way you are calculating.
Tejash Thakkar
No. So my calculation was based on the inputs that roughly it takes about 7 to 11 months is the average.
Amritanshu Khaitan
But we do unbilled revenue. It’s work in progress also, which comes into our top line.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Percentage completion is also done. So not necessarily entire equipment has to be dispatched.
Tejash Thakkar
So can you share what is the order — addition order for April, May? Is it possible to share that, confirm order?
Ranjit Lala
Well, I think we should hold on right now. Sachin?
Amritanshu Khaitan
We’ve disclosed, Ranjit, that I think a few days ago only about INR40 crores of orders.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
INR50 crores of orders we have disclosed. That is only at Kilburn we have disclosed.
Ranjit Lala
Kilburn, we have disclosed, yeah.
Amritanshu Khaitan
Okay, sir. So as and when any large orders come, the company discloses it.
Vinay Pandit
Yeah. Got it, sir. Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Priyanka. Priyanka, you can go in.
Priyanka Patel
Sir, we are entering a nuclear power segment. So how much order books in pipeline from power — nuclear power segment?
Amritanshu Khaitan
We have INR50 crores today, which is there. We believe this will be an important segment in the next 4, 5 years where every year, some order should come through. Priyanka, you are on mute. Are you done? I think that was the last question for the day. Would the management like to give any closing comments?
Ranjit Lala
You can just check if there are any questions pending in the chat box.
Vinay Pandit
No, sir.
Ranjit Lala
Okay, fine. Mr. Khaitan, would you like to say something?
Amritanshu Khaitan
Ranjit, you can do the closing.
Ranjit Lala
Yeah. No, I think we are well on track, and we have been getting very good inquiries, some good orders. And as I’ve mentioned, we do see a 50% growth on the current year. And in the past also, we have mentioned that we will try to optimize the margins, and we will keep guiding you from time to time as they improve or if there is any setback or something. So I think we are — we have been very, very open on how the situation is. So we’ll keep you posted. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Vinay Pandit
Thank you. Thank you to all the participants for joining on the call, and thank you to the management team.
Sachin J. Vijayakar
Thank you.
Vinay Pandit
That brings us to the end of today’s call. Thank you.