KEC International Ltd (NSE: KEC) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 27, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Vimal Kejriwal — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Rajeev Aggarwal — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Renu Bhatia — Analyst
Bhoomika Nair — Analyst
Samarth Khandelwal — Analyst
Manit Oswal — Analyst
Parikshit Kandpal — Analyst
Vaibhav Shah — Analyst
Gaurav Uttrani — Analyst
Amit Mahawar — Analyst
Uttam Kumar — Analyst
Saket Kapoor — Analyst
Mehul Mehta — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, Good day and welcome to KEC International Limited Q4 and FY25 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vimal Kjriwal, Managing Director and CEO, KEC International Limited. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Vimal Kejriwal — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Thanks Steve. Good morning to all and welcome to the Q4 earnings call of Keck. Let me begin with an overview of our overall performance and then go into the specifics of each business segment and our key strategic initiatives. FY25 has been a landmark year for TEC. This year marks a significant milestone as we celebrate eight decades of excellence. It has also been a defining year with the introduction of our purpose statement. We transform lives by building sustainable world class infrastructure. This purpose serves as our guiding star, shaping our strategy, driving our actions and inspiring our vision for the future.
Today, CAC stands Proud as a US$2.6 billion global EPC powerhouse operating across eight diverse SBUs spanning 110 countries and managing over 275 active projects. The backbone of our success continues to be our people, more than 7,500 KCNs from over 40 nationalities coming to our financial performance, we have achieved record breaking revenues, highest ever profitability, historic order intake and substantial reduction in debt levels. Additionally, we successfully executed various strategic initiatives and developed niche capabilities across our businesses positioning us for sustained growth and value creation. In Q4 we delivered the highest ever quarterly revenues of Rupees 6,872 crores, a solid growth of 28% sequentially and 11% YNY.
Our TNB business, both India and international renewables and cable businesses have delivered commendable performances during the quarter. Our profitability continues to demonstrate healthy momentum with margins steadily improving quarter after quarter. We delivered an exceptional growth of 39% YoY in EBITDA with EBITDA margins for the quarter improving by 150 basis points. Visa vis Q4FY24 to 7.8%. The bottom line has also seen remarkable growth with PBT and PAT Both growing by 77% of PBT margin, we witnessed a significant increase of 190 basis points compared to Q4FY24 reaching 5% while the PAT margin expanded by 140 basis points standing at 3.9% on the order intake front, we maintained a strong momentum securing new orders of over Rupees 5700 crores during Q4, largely anchored by our TNB business.
Through concerted efforts we have made significant improvements in our debt levels and our balance sheet. Our net debt, including acceptances has decreased by over rupees 500 crores to around 4,558 crores as on 3-31-25 despite a revenue increase of around 2000 crores I.e. 10% YoY. If you compare it against the last quarter of December 24, the borrowings have been reduced by 1000 crores. The reduction in our debt levels has also resulted in substantial improvement in our leverage ratios. Net debt to EBITDA has come down to three times and net debt to equity has improved to over 0.9 times from 1.2 times last year.
We have also made progress on the working capital front. Our net working capital has improved by 12 days now standing at 122 days as on March 31, 2025down from the peak level of 134 days in December. We anticipate this positive trend to continue driven by higher collections, commercial closure of ongoing projects and a gradual shift in order book composition, particularly with an increasing share of TND projects which inherently have a better working capital profile. This healthy reduction in debt is also translating into lower finance costs. Interest for the quarter has declined to 2.5% of revenue marking a reduction of 70 basis points compared to Q3 FY25.
Now coming to the annual performance, we achieved heavy revenue growth of 10% delivering the highest share of our revenue of rupees 21,847 crores for the full year. This growth was primarily driven by our TMD businesses both in India and international as well as strong performance in the renewable and cables business. In terms of EBITDA, we have delivered a substantial growth of 26% YNY. EBITDA margin have expanded by 90 basis points to 7%. Visa was 6.1 last year. PBT has improved by 71% whereas PBT margins went up by 120 basis points to 3.3 from 2.1. Fiat has increased to I71 crores against 347 crores FY24 implying a growth of 65%.
It is noteworthy that the increase in PVT impact is much higher than EBITDA owing to reduction in both interest and depreciation and a reasonable etr. While our revenues and profitability could have been higher, they were tempered by a conscious slowdown in the execution of water projects due to delayed client payments as well as persistent labor shortages and some continuing supply chain bottlenecks in the PNB business. On the order intake front, we backed a robust order intake of rupees 24,689, a stellar growth of 36% y and y. This is largely in line with our guidance for the year.
Notably, a substantial quantum of over 70% of this order intake has been secured by our TNB business across India and international markets. We are actively working on various aspects to enhance the quality of our order book given the better margins and healthier cash flows in pnd. We strategically raised hurdle rates and tightened cash flow criteria for some orders in non PND businesses which led to a calibrated order intake in both segments. Additionally, to strengthen operational control, we have deliberately shifted focus towards securing fewer but larger EPC order, increasing the average order size from rupees 200 crores last year to Rs.
325 crores this year. This strategic move towards high quality orders enables sharper focus on cost efficiency and execution excellence. We closed the year with a well diversified and strong order book of rupees 33,398 crores. We are happy that the order intake Trend continues in FY26 with new orders of over Rs. 2000 crores announced till date across TND, Civil and Cable businesses. The civil business has marked its entry into the promising semiconductor segment with a significant order from a new client and further strengthened its order book in the metals and mining segment with a repeat order for an upstream project in a steel plant.
The TND business continues to strengthen its order book with significant wins especially in the domestic market. Additionally, we have a large L1 position of over rupees 4,500 crores primarily in the PND business. With this, the current order book plus L1 position stands at over rupees forty thousand crores, which gives us visibility for the next six to eight quarters. Considering the substantial improvement, performance, sizable order book and ongoing confidence in strategy, the Board of Directors have decided to recommend a dividend of 275%, that is rupees 5.50 per equity share on the face value of rupees 2 each.
Now let me talk about specific businesses. Our TNT business has delivered an outstanding performance achieving a milestone revenue of 12,833 crores for the year, a remarkable growth of 23%. The growth has been delivered on the back of robust execution across both domestic and international markets. A strong exhibition is Evident from our order book to revenue ratio of 1.5 times which is 1 of the best in the industry. The business has significantly expanded its order book with significant order inflows of close to rupees 18,000 crores across India, Middle East, Americas, SARS, Africa, East Asia Pacific, CIS and Australia.
In India tnd the business witnessed good traction as it secured orders of over rupees 7200 crores, a robust growth of more than 20% vis a vis last year. We have considerably strengthened our order book with a series of strategic wins including multiple translation lines and subscription projects from Power Grid Corporation of India and private developers. During the year we also achieved two important milestones, securing our first ever startcom order representing a strategic advancement in the substation value chain and strengthening our position in the HVD space. Currently we are executing an HVDC converter station project spread across three locations and three HVDC transmission line projects.
Additionally, we are bidding for more HiddenC projects both in India and the overseas market. In a proud moment, we successfully commissioned two digital subscription projects of 765 KV and 400, 520 KB GIS at Navsari Gujarat, the first of their kind in India and largest in the world. On the international PNB front, we continue to strengthen and broaden our global presence, recording order wins exceeding rupees 8300 crores which is more than double the intake compared to last year. A major highlight was the string of high value orders secured in the Middle east across Saudi Arabia, UAE and Oman.
During the year we secured our largest ever international substation order from the uae, reinforcing our presence in the global substation EPC space. With the growing emphasis on localization of supplies in the Middle east, our manufacturing facility in Dubai provides a competitive edge by meeting local content requirements and offering secure advantages. The business also bagged a landmark tower supply order from Australia reflecting our strategic focus on expanding and diversifying our tower sales footprint across global markets beyond Americas and the Middle East. In SA Towers, the business achieved profitable revenues of Rupees 1,325 crores for the year de growing by 8% primarily due to the steep depreciation of the Brazilian currency against US dollar by almost 15% over the last one year, the business is witnessing significant traction in order inflows with inflows surpassing rupees 2,300 crores and intros growth of more than 2.5 times.
These orders for the supply of towers hardware and phones span across the us, Mexico and Brazil. A noteworthy milestone of the successful supply of hardware products to the US market from a Brazil factory, paving the way for future business expansion. In this high potential geography, the business now boasts a healthy order book and lwal position exceeding rupees 2,300 crores. We have successfully managed to reduce our debt by 25% to rupees 300 crores from March 24th levels in SAE. With a robust order book and a sustained increase in tendering activities at TND segment, we embarked on a debottlenecking and capacity expansion initiatives for our tower manufacturing plants.
With minimal investments, we have now completed capacity enhancement at our Dubai, Jaipur and Jabalpur plants in India. With these strategic upgrades, our total tower manufacturing capacity has increased by 46,000 metric tons per annum, rising from 422,000 to 468,000 metric tons. This positions us strongly to cater to the growing demand for transmission infrastructures both domestically and in the international market. The outlook for the TND sector remains highly encouraging, driven by strong tendering activity across domestic and international markets. In India, the push to meet the country’s ambitious target of 600 gigawatt of non fossil fuel capacity by 2032 is driving continuous investments in transmission lines, substations and underground cabling.
On the international front, we continue to see promising opportunities across regions such as Middle East, Africa, CIS and the Americas. The Middle east is witnessing strong traction in the TND sector as countries as Saudi Arabia, UAE and Oman build regional interconnections and scale up transmission to meet national electrification and renewable energy goals. With a record order book and L1 in TND of over rupees 24,500 crores, we are confident of delivering significant growth in this business. Our civil business has achieved revenues of 4483 crores for the year. As mentioned earlier, the growth could have been higher but for the deliberate moderation in the progress of water projects, primarily due to the delayed client payments and the ongoing labor shortage.
Despite these headwinds, the business achieved significant milestones, particularly in the Metro segment. We have successfully handed over the entire viaduct of both our Metro projects with Delhi Metro. Similarly, in Chennai, the entire viaduct for the Chennai Metro 02 project has been handed over and successful trial runs have commenced. In the last Metro project on CMRL ECB 03, construction is progressing well with partial handover expected in the next quarter. On the order intake front, the civil business strengthened its portfolio with new orders exceeding rupees 2,400 crores during the year. These orders span diverse sectors including industrial, residential, buildings and defense.
We have also made progress in diversifying our customer base onboarding several renowned clients in the industrial and residential segments. Aligned with our commitment to future ready construction and addressing the persistent challenge of labor shortages, we are actively adopting new age technologies and agile construction methodologies such as the use of cut and bench steel, precast elements and composite construction. Further, by integrating advanced digital tools such as building information modeling, BIM asset tracking and management systems and concrete management systems, we are positioning ourselves at the forefront of technological innovation in the construction industry. Looking ahead, we are encouraged by a very promising start to the year in our civil business marked by its strategic order wins exhibition.
Momentum is gradually picking up in water projects as the payments are being released in both the states of Orissa and Madhya Pradesh where we are present, we are actively pursuing international opportunities and witnessing a strong pipeline of inquiries particularly in the buildings and factories segment. With a robust order book and L1 position of over 10,000 crores, we are confident that civil business will continue to be a key growth driver for us going forward. Our transportation business has achieved a revenue of rupees 2,112 crores for the year de growing by 32%. The business continues to make steady progress in physical completion of projects across segments.
A key milestone was the successful physical existence of our first TCAST project under the coverage system. Over the course of the year we have enabled coverage system across 270 roof kilometers. Another major highlight has been the commissioning of trial runs in three Metro projects from Mumbai Metro, Ahmedabad Metro and Delhi Metro where we were executing OHE and BLT projects for these Metros. We remain cautious in our approach to order intake in this sector considering the margin profile, the working capital scenario and the execution dynamics of this business. During the year the business has secured orders of rupees 2,200 crores including maiden orders in the roadway sector and gauge conversion segments as well as prestigious ordinary cars and tunnel ventilation segments.
Most of the orders secured this year do not involve execution on mainline racks that require blocks from the client, a challenge we are currently facing in the completion of some of our existing projects. The government’s ongoing focus on strengthening the safety infrastructure and technological accreditation is expected to drive momentum in our transportation business going forward. We are actively focusing on international opportunities in the Middle east and Africa. Our focus continues to be on fast tracking project closures, optimizing working capital and pursuing select international opportunities for growth. Our cables business has delivered a record performance with the highest ever revenues, order intake and profitability.
During the year the business achieved revenues of over rupees 1,800crores. A strong growth of 10% with substantial improvement in profitability as previously communicated. In line with our vision to unlock value and create a sharper business focus, we successfully transferred the cables business to our Wholly owned subsidiary KSC Asian Cables Limited effective January 1st, 2025. Commitment to product diversification and capacity expansion remains strong. During the year we successfully commissioned an aluminium conductor plant at Ourodara facility. Building on this momentum, we have now initiated this doubling of our conductor manufacturing capacity. Additionally, the capital investment to produce E beam and electromeric cables is progressing well and we expect commercial production to commence in Q4 this year.
The business remains actively focused on exports and continues to expand its international footprint by entering new markets. A notable milestone was the successful dispatch of UL certified program products marking its entry in the US market. We are confident that with this strategic realignment coupled with a focus on product diversification will drive significant growth strengthening both revenue and profitability for the cables business in the years to come. Our renewable business has delivered an exceptional performance in the stellar growth of 92% achieving record revenues of rupees 853 crores. The execution of existing projects is progressing smoothly with several notable milestones accomplished during the year.
The 500 megawatt solar project in Karnataka has been partly commissioned and power generation has commenced. Additionally, work is progressing well on the 500 megawatt solar project in Rajasthan with the first phase slated for completion within this quarter. With the government growing emphasis on hybrid projects that ensure round the clock power supply, we have begun bidding for projects in the wind and battery energy storage system best alongside our continued focus on solar. This positions us strongly to participate in the next wave of clean and reliable energy infrastructure. We are confident that renewable EPC business will be a key pillar of our growth in oil and gas pipeline.
The business has reported revenues of 363crores. Growth has been subdued primarily from a slowdown in tendering activities. However, the business has widened its footprint by securing its first order in the composite space including design, space, supply and build. The business is progressing well on the execution of its first international produce in Africa. Looking ahead, the business is pursuing promising projects in the international markets. We remain committed to enhancing execution excellence across all our businesses by embracing automation, mechanization and digitalization across our project life cycle. These initiatives enable us to accelerate timelines, drive efficiencies and deliver projects ahead of schedule.
At the same time, we are building a world class engineering organization with a sharp focus on strengthening our design capabilities to ensure first time right solutions for activity. Institutionalizing Design to value frameworks to optimize project cost and reduce design cycle time. By harnessing robotic process automation, artificial intelligence and advanced analytics in ESG and sustainability, we continue to make significant strides across the organization. Some of the key initiatives and development during the year include installation of solar rooftops on our Varodha plant, complementing existing installation at Nagpur, Jaipur, Dubai and Brazil plants. Additionally, we have long term agreements with external service providers to procure energy for renewable sources at our Vadodra and Mysore cables manufacturing plant.
With this, 34% of our total power requirements across plants will now be met through solar energy as compared to 25% last year. Our people centric agenda focuses on fostering happiness aligned with our group tagline hello Happiness which is a core aspect of RPG Group’s philosophy. This year we saw a measurable rise in employee satisfaction with happiness posted reaching 84%, up 1 percentage point from the previous year in 3 points. Over the last two years our progress in ESG and sustainability has been well appreciated which is reflected in the improvement of our ESG ratings by MSCI Crystal and ses.
In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that the outlook remains healthy across both of our businesses and with a formidable and diversified order book plus L1 of over rupees forty thousand crores combined with a substantial tender pipeline exceeding Rs.1 eighty thousand crores, we are well positioned to deliver sustained growth. Thank you so much. Open to take your questions now.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press STAR and one on Touchstone Telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press STAR and two participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Renu Bhait from IIFL Capital Services. Please go ahead.
Renu Bhatia
Yeah hi, good morning team and congratulations for the strong performance. So I have a few questions. My first is clearly our T and D business needs to be back with a band. So how do we read through the implication of this both in terms of improvement in margins and further deleveraging of our balance sheet. If you can throw some insight in terms of profitability for fiscal 25 and how do we see the overall business moving on 26, 27? That’s the first question.
Vimal Kejriwal
Renu, good to see you here. I think as far as PND is concerned, you looked at, you heard the numbers. We got 18,000 crores of order intake Et cetera. And we just crossed double digit margin for the year on TND. Obviously we expect to do better in terms in FY26 on the outlook. If you and I think you would have seen the power grid presentation also where they are trying to. They just talked about increasing their capex significantly even this year. I think our power grid revenue was more than 4,000 crores. That’s almost close to 20% of their entire capex.
I think we are very, very confident that the growth will happen. There’s a very strong tender pipeline. We already have a large order book with us, forget the L1s et cetera, both in India as well as in Middle East. So I think very clearly it will help us in significantly improving all the ratios. In fact our India TND working capital is still close to zero below 10 days. So whatever increase we have in the India TND business will help us in clearly deleveraging our balance sheet.
Renu Bhatia
And can we expect now this business to move towards 11%, 12% operating margin The way it used to be earlier?
Vimal Kejriwal
I think it should. We are already this year FY25 we were at 10%. So clearly with the legacy projects out of the way and stability in all the, I’ll say the cost items, whether it is cement, whether it is steel, whether it is aluminum, et cetera, we do expect that the margins should go up. Now whether it will be 11 or 12, difficult to say but it will definitely be better than what we have delivered this year.
Renu Bhatia
Got it. Second question you did mention about as in our cables, it’s clearly earmarked for value unlocking and our separate team and focus has been aligned there and we are aggressively expanding portfolio in markets. So what is the roadmap? If you look take a two to three year view, how are you looking at both matrices in this business and when you say value unlocking, can we expect the business to go through a vertical demerger or a separate listing kind of phenomena to create value or it would continue to be housed under KEC for a longer period of time.
Vimal Kejriwal
So Renu, as of now it is 100% subsidiary of KEC. And with the CAPEX plans which we are doing, I think we are spending almost 150 crores in the current financial year. We spend close to 1890 crores in FY25. Also what we expect is that by FY27 we should be, I don’t know, maybe around 3500 crores or sort of revenue with the capex which we are doing and at that point of time. I think we will decide how to take this forward. I think it’s a little bit premature today to say what we will be able to do.
I don’t think we have any plans of taking it out of KEC even in the long term. But I think we will take a call maybe a year, year and a half later on whether we want. I think we are clear that we want to do some dilution to raise capital. Whether the capital would be raised in the cables business or whether it would be raised by divesting of some part of our CAC stake and all. I think it’s a little bit, probably, maybe next year we talk about it, we may have a better idea.
Depending upon how the balance sheet of both these businesses, whether it’s the CAC balance sheet on its own or the cables balance it. Let’s say tomorrow, we think that the cables business has a much larger potential and we need more capital there. Then you can always do additional capital raised there. If you think that KC needs that capital better, then we may probably do a little bit of reduction. So I think we’ll decide about it maybe one year or maybe six quarters down the line.
Renu Bhatia
As the business matures, we can look at it separately. And lastly, on the rail and the water part of the civil business that we have. So what is the pending backlog that we have in our books which still faces these payment issues and delaying execution and on the rail part of the business, given that business has now been shrinking for the last two to three years, where do we see the business bottoming out in terms of size and what are we doing to realign the resources or the cost structures which were in place to drive growth in the business? So what are you doing of the people and teams and how are we reallocating to another business division so that overall profitability can be improved? Yeah, that’s my last question.
Vimal Kejriwal
Let me talk about railways first. So clearly I think it has bottomed out. We are, we did a ton of around 2,100 crores. I don’t think we want to go below that. If we are going below that, then we may as well shut down the business. Okay, so I don’t think we are now looking at going below this numbers. I don’t have the exact number, but I think around 30, 40% of the employees have either moved out or have been redeployed, especially on the TMD side because a lot of the capabilities are, you know, like electrification is virtually similar to laying a transmission line.
So a lot of Redeployment has happened. Also if you heard my speech, what we have done is that on the order intake, although we still had 2,200% of order intake but the order intake was clearly different from what we were doing earlier. We have not taken any order on electrification or speed up credit. Whatever required us to work on live tracks for a longer time. All that is gone out. So if you look at order intake it has been on the DLT side, on the metro side, it has been on tunnel ventilation where there’s no trains running right now or on the covered system.
So I think we have been very particular on what orders we take. Obviously the current order book is the current orders are profitable. So hopefully by next year we expect the railway should turn around. This year we are still closing all the old projects. There are arbitrage, etc. Going. So we are not sure what would happen to the numbers this year. But we are pretty confident that FY27 will clearly be positive for the railways coming to water. We have an order book backlog of almost 2000 crores now across two states of MP and Orissa. We did receive I think a significant amount of money including 140 crores in this current quarter.
We have started execution against again on those projects apart. Very little was done in Q4 last year which is why we had this revenue shortfall. Q1 we are going almost as a full blast because we received a lot of money in the Q4 and Q1. So hopefully I think our revenue targets are. I don’t have the exact number 1200 to 1500 crores of revenue targets for this year from water. And I think we are reasonably confident that we should be able to achieve unless there’s a major setback in terms of payments.
Renu Bhatia
Thank you sir.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vomika Nair from Dam Capital. Please go ahead.
Bhoomika Nair
Yeah, good morning sir. Yes, on the, you know, water. Just to continue, we are targeting a very strong execution of the current outstanding order book. How is, you know you said that you received in 4Q and 1Q some payments. So what would be the total outstanding receivable from only water?
Vimal Kejriwal
I think it’s around 800 crores if I’m not wrong. Yeah, it’s 800 crores roughly.
Bhoomika Nair
And so you know from a receivable and money receipt perspective you think that this should now is accelerating which is where we will likely see uptick in terms of the execution in FY25 26.
Vimal Kejriwal
So I think we are conscious of that. So our execution would depend upon what kind of money we receive. So in a way, let’s put it this way, there’s a cap on what we will execute. So whatever money I get this month, that’s the execution we will do next month. So I don’t see the AR coming down because what will happen is that we’ll have fresh revenues coming in. But ultimately you have to do the projects also. These are projects which are, you know, in a way nationally critical. We are giving water to the households, etc.
So there will be continuous pressure, the government notwithstanding that we are not paying. So we still would continue. If monies don’t come in Q1, we will see a deacceleration in Q2.
Bhoomika Nair
Understood, fair point. So the other thing is on civil, if you look at it X or quarter also if one looks at it, the order backlog has been fairly stable. How are you seeing the new orders you did speak about industrial, residential, etc. Seeing some improvement. But how are you seeing the trajectory in terms of order inflow per se?
Vimal Kejriwal
In this particular segment we have not seen a very significant change than what we had in Q3. So the. I see the residential segment still continues to be very, very bullish. We just announced a large order last year. At the close of the year we announced one. So we are having a lot more orders and inquiries from very reputed. And I think what is also changing vomita is the orders are becoming larger. Okay, so that’s one plus point. Industrial still continues to be more on the metals and remaining. We announced one metals and remaining order.
But the good part was this year we also got a very large semiconductor complex. The advantage of that is one is obviously it’s a very prestigious order and seeing what all this is happening in that sector. Secondly, those are. That is a very fast track order to be done in 12 months. So you know, it would result in a quick churning of revenue. You know the civil order book versus revenue ratios are not as good as tnd. So what we are also looking at is when you saw the order intake, we had actually calibrated a lot.
We are looking at orders which can be exhibited quickly, which are cash flow positive. And I think we are pretty happy with what we have done.
Bhoomika Nair
Sure sir. In terms of the working capital, if I look at it, there has been a reduction between the third quarter and the post year end which has also resulted in debt reduction as such in the quarter. Now as we go ahead, what is the, the outlook that we have in terms of the working capital? Because it still Remains elevated versus the last year. So what are our areas of where we’re looking at reduction with an execution still picking up?
Vimal Kejriwal
I’ll let Rajiv answer it. Rajiv, you want to take it?
Rajeev Aggarwal
Basically what is happening that still as Vimal mentioned that there is a large outstanding in the water business. So we expect this to be normalized as we progress during the year and by the end of the year probably there will be very little work will be left on the water side and we hope to realize all this money. Plus, as Vimal mentioned in the opening remarks, the TND business has been doing well and particularly on the domestic side where the our networking capital in the domestic business has come down significantly virtually we are operating at very low net working capital.
So with these T and D businesses doing very well on the working capital front with a very low intensity in terms of the additional working capital requirement and the civil business improving this year, hopefully the railway business will also contribute in terms of the additional cash flows in terms of realization of lot of claims. So with all this I expect the working capital intensity will go down further and somewhere we are quite hopeful that by end of this year we should be closer to about 100 days of NWC and that is where we expect the overall interest cost should be about 2.5% of the total revenue despite a revenue growth of almost 15% this year to take it to 25,000 crore.
Bhoomika Nair
Understood. Sir, I have more questions. I will come back. Wishing you all the best sir.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thank you.
operator
The next question is from the line of Samarth Khandelwal from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Samarth Khandelwal
Thank you for this opportunity Sir, I wanted to understand how are HVTC TND orders different from regular TND orders? And also considering HODC are longer CKM and for larger ticket size why are you still getting HDC orders in the range of similar as we were getting other TMD orders?
Vimal Kejriwal
So some HVDC orders on the line side are not very different from the normal AC lines also. Okay. It’s only as you rightly said, longer in length and also the values are typically higher and also they are always considered to be more difficult and more technologically advanced. For whatever reason it is, but it is there. Okay, so equity orders are always considered to be very prestigious in terms of transmission lines. So we are already doing three lines. We are negotiating a few others and bidding for more. I think what is more critical is on the converter station side which is a high technology item both in terms of supplies and also in terms of the entire civil and erection and all that is a very very different ball game.
In fact, if I am right, I think we are the first EPC contractor to actually do HUDC construction. Otherwise it always had been done by the OEMs who supply the HQDC equipments. So I think that’s where it is always considered to be prestigious. Always also much larger in value.
Samarth Khandelwal
Thank you sir.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Manit Otswal from Nirmal Bank Securities. Please go ahead.
Vimal Kejriwal
Yeah, you are. Go ahead.
Manit Oswal
Yes sir. Thank you for the opportunity and very good set of numbers for the year. Sir, given the increased geopolitical risk in our business. So how you are managing the risk? Can you talk about some qualitative aspect? Whether the risk factors increase, rejection rates of project selection has increased. So can you talk about that thing in our business?
Vimal Kejriwal
So Manish, we have a very active risk management committee right up to the board level where there’s a lot of. Lot of issues get discussed. We have a former foreign secretary on our board so a lot of views get expressed on the relative risk and risk profile. Whenever we talk about international projects, especially new countries, et cetera. We also have a very robust risk matrix which is to be done for every project. Whenever we are getting into with a new country and a new client. Many times we also insist on that to be done existing clients where we don’t have too much of exposure.
So the risk matrix covers a lot of activities, lot of issues including political, including the payment risk, including what is the stability, what has been the record, etc. Etc. So we are pretty active on that. Notwithstanding that you never know what happens. So you will always run into some risk when you are operating internationally. But I think we have been pretty okay when we look at what we have done. We also take insurance covers to or reduce the risk to some extent. We are in regular touch with I’ll say deputy, international agencies who advise us on risk. Especially when we get into a new country. We consider the big four wherever they are present when we talk about new countries, especially on the payment risk on the tax issues.
And so I think we are reasonably confident of what we are doing in terms of looking at geopolitical risk at the time of taking a new bid in a new country.
Manit Oswal
The second thing sir, I was listening your speech management commentary. So we all understand that the growth aspect is never be a concern for the company like KEC because of domain expertise. But your T and D portfolio where here some of the businesses are not doing well. So have you thought about, you know, shutting down that business, taking some hard decision on those businesses so that focus your core expertise where you can generate the cash flow as well as the high profitability. So can you talk about some strategic landscape on your non tid portfolio? Which things you want to curtail or which you want to focus more in terms of cash flows and getting profitability perspective? Thank you.
Vimal Kejriwal
Manish. Let me add a few. I think I don’t know how long we have been covering this company. So three years back India TND wasn’t making losses. Okay. And railways was making profits. What happens is that the decision of going into six or eight or whatever numbers we have on SBUs right now, especially four large SBUs has been on the account of de risking our portfolio. Also trying to avoid the cyclicity in the markets. Many times when we talk to consultants and advisers and specialists they always say that, you know, this business is contra cyclical to that other business etc.
So that is the way it is. You can’t set up and shut down businesses very quickly. Okay sir, thank you. Has taken us seven years. So it’s not easy for us to take a call. It’s not like a product line that I shut down a product line and started again next day. You can’t build capability or PQs, et cetera in a business. But what we have done, and if you listen to the speech carefully, we have clearly brought down our order intake in some of the businesses where we think that profitability is not as good.
We have clearly our PND order intake was 70% of our orders. Okay? So very clearly we are calibrating what business we want to grow, what business we don’t want to grow for the timing. But that doesn’t mean that we will shut down the business. Okay. We are very clear this year we expect civil to grow by at least 25%. So it’s not a question saying that we will shut down this or we will shut down that. You can’t take decisions like that because you never know which business what will happen. Like if you take water.
One year back, water was doing very well and government was, you know, out of the way funding it. Suddenly something changed. I think they have gone slow. But now again in this budget they said that and they said we will fund you everything. So it depends. So I think we are pretty happy with the way we are managing or calibrating our various businesses.
Manit Oswal
Absolutely. Thank you sir.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thank. You.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kannalp From HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Parikshit Kandpal
My first question is guidance for this year. So sorry if I missed that. What is the revenue growth guidance, Order inflow guidance and margin guidance for FY26.
Vimal Kejriwal
So Parikshit, what we have said is that we will grow by 15% on the revenue side. On the margin we have been talking about 8 to 8.5% from the current 7%. And we have said that order intake should be around 30,000 crores.
Parikshit Kandpal
Okay. Last year the order inflows was roughly 10 and a half thousand from international TND and 72 domestic was there. So what kind of out of 30,000 crores are expecting? How much can be and what kind of growth you’re looking from domestic and international.
Vimal Kejriwal
What we have generally been looking at 70% of the order intake should come from TND. Okay. I don’t have the exact breakup but I think it should be more or less equal depending upon what happens. But 21, 21,000 is what we are looking for. Order growth. Order intake from TND this year.
Parikshit Kandpal
What is out of this?
Vimal Kejriwal
You’re cracking up completely. I can’t. We can’t understand what you’re saying. No, the. The line is pretty bad.
Parikshit Kandpal
Hello.
Vimal Kejriwal
Slightly better. Yeah, go ahead. Let’s see.
Parikshit Kandpal
I was asking the total 1.8 trillion of prospect pipeline. How much is of that would be the TND pipeline and is it growing?
Vimal Kejriwal
I. I don’t have the numbers readily. But TND is roughly 50% of that 1 lakh 80,000. Okay. Breakup between international and this. I don’t have any idea. Between international and India. International is higher. I. I don’t know if you have the exact number. But the international is higher. Mainly on the back of Saudi.
Parikshit Kandpal
Okay. And domestically indeed you last year you grew by 20% in order inflows. So do you think this year what kind of growth you’re looking at? Is the pipeline very robust? What are the key HVDC pipeline in FY26. If you can give some color on that.
Vimal Kejriwal
I think we should have a similar growth even order book. We are saying order intake. We are saying 25 to 30,000 has 20% growth. So India PND. Again I think we should have 20% or so growth. It will all depend upon when the QDC orders come, what happens and how quickly the renewables are getting built etc. So it will depend. But I think we are pretty confident that we should have a similar level of growth this year also.
Parikshit Kandpal
And you have estimate of the GDP pipeline to be awarded this year which are the projects do you think will get awarded in your broad sense?
Vimal Kejriwal
You asking about hdc right?
Parikshit Kandpal
Yeah. Yeah. So how much HDC project do you think we wanted to say advance of bidding on?
Vimal Kejriwal
Right now there are two projects which are under consideration. I think one is in the Gujarat. Okay. Where for some reason the tendering has been getting postponed a little bit. The tenders are out but it’s not yet quoted. So that will definitely get awarded this year. And we have already seen a couple of tenders coming out of the Leh Ladakh line. Okay. I don’t know whether they will be quoted right now or they will get postponed. But I think two or three tenders on the Himachal Pradesh side or somewhere else, I don’t know exactly where.
But some tenders have been issued by PGCI under the RTM route. Okay. Whether they will get quoted right now or they will get postponed but the tenders are out. I think these are the two lines which will happen here. And there are few very large lines of HODC which will be tendered out by in Saudi also. So those are the projects which we have seen.
Parikshit Kandpal
Those are my questions.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Vaibhav Shah
So on the ebitda margin for 8 to 8.5% for FY26, I think in the previous call we were confident of 9% margins for FY26. So what has led to this reduction in terms of the margin guidance?
Vimal Kejriwal
I think right now with what is happening in water and labor, etc. Shortage, etc. We are a bit conservative. Okay. I don’t know whether we’ll be able to achieve nine or not. But I think maybe after a quarter or so we’ll be able to be more clear about the numbers. Okay. Which is why I’ll say that is why we have toned it down slightly.
Vaibhav Shah
But FY27 should be surely 9% less.
Vimal Kejriwal
I presume so, yeah. Because we have a large order book, a large order intake also planned and we are saying a quality of orders are increasing for next year has to be 9%. Yes, no doubt about it.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay, sir. Secondly, we saw that one debt has come down significantly in the fourth quarter. But interest cost has been flattish on a QQ basis. So was the debt reduction happened at the end of the quarter?
Vimal Kejriwal
I think what has happened is that interest cost. See first of all, the interest rates have not yet come down. I think we are expecting the rate to come down even both international as well as India and I think the other piece, what Rajiv is saying is that a large part of the collections. If you look at our reduction of 1000 crores in debt from December to March most of the collection came towards the end of March. So you will start seeing the reduction happening in Q1 rather than Q4. Which you know from the numbers it looks like should have happened in Q4.
But since most of the collection was skewed towards the last week of March the impact of that will happen now.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Okay. In terms of segmental margins so what would have been the losses in the railways business for FY25. And secondly on the SAE side what is the outstanding debt and the interest cost?
Vimal Kejriwal
I don’t think we give out those numbers on segmental. If you want some more details maybe in touch with Abhishek to get some more data on that. Okay.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Around SA for debt and interest cost the interest rate.
Vimal Kejriwal
SA debt has come down to 300 crores from 400 roughly. Interest cost 10% average would be around 11%.
Vaibhav Shah
Okay. Thank you, sir. Those are questions.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thanks. Thank you.
operator
The next question is from the line of Gaurav Utrani from Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Gaurav Uttrani
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on good set of results. So we wanted to check on margin like we are targeting 8 to 8.5% in FY26. And we aspire to reach double digit over the next one or two years. So how would be the contribution from the non PND segments? Are we seeing orders which we are taking currently are on a higher margin side on what would be the broad range? If you can highlight like in the non TND segment.
Vimal Kejriwal
Gaurav, we just now said maybe next year should be 9% and all. I didn’t say right now 10. Maybe it was earlier we were talking about it. We have toned it down slightly. I think what is going to happen Gaurav is that our railway numbers as I said has bottomed out. So we should start seeing better numbers out from railways and civil. Also. What is happening is that as I said we finished three of our four metro projects. Fourth one should be getting over now. So a large part of capital was logged in there. So the cost of capital will start coming down. The numbers will start improving. Plus as we said that we have increased the size of our order intake more specifically in civil and at I’ll say reasonably better profitability. So we expect that civil should go back to maybe 7 to 8% margin in the coming years. And T and d obviously with 65, 70% ratios coming in from TND which is more than double digit, which is around double digit.
Sorry. We should be able to go to a higher margin in the coming years.
Gaurav Uttrani
Okay sir. Similarly on the TND you mentioned that we are getting strong order on the international domestic side. So could you just highlight like what would the margin differential between international and domestic orders. What you take
Vimal Kejriwal
Difficult to say that we have been, you know, I think the margin depends upon individual orders. So I’ve always been saying that if you go to a country like Saudi, we have orders at 8% and the orders are 20% also. So depending upon each order what is the competitive intensity, what is your advantage you have and all that. But typically I don’t think it makes too much of difference to us whether if everything else is similar, the margins will be similar on an order whether it is India or whether it is international.
Earlier international orders had a better capital cost because the loans used to be cheaper. However of late we are finding the difference would be probably less than 100 basis points. So I think I’ll say virtually immune to whether it is international or India when we decide the margin.
Gaurav Uttrani
Okay sir. Secondly.
Vimal Kejriwal
There are too many people waiting. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit and money from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you sir and congratulations. A good set of numbers. My first question is you have been highlighting about the labor shortage from past few quarters and we have been growing almost. We are targeting 15% growth and even the order intake growth is going to be significant. So I wanted to understand are we expecting because of the shortage is the labor cost going up and how are we dealing with the labor cost shortage since we are still growing at 15% plus for maybe next couple of years.
Vimal Kejriwal
Amit, labor cost is definitely going to go up. It is going up and the new cost is always factored in the tenders which we are quoting. There will be some marginal impact on the earlier orders. But I don’t think it’s going to significantly impact our margins. There has been some impact. That’s why you can see that we are reducing our margin level slightly. What is happening is that the shortage is spread across various businesses in different manners and geographies like internationally we don’t have too much of shortage anywhere. So I think our international orders have been going on, execution has been going on.
Well India where there is more civil, specific, where you need more, let’s say fitters and carpenters and all that, that’s the problem. Or electricians is where you have been having more issues. Civil is Generally. Okay, I’ll say so. I think we have been taking various steps. I don’t think there’s a forum where we can discuss all the steps. But I think what we are trying to do is see how do we improve mechanization and automation et cetera so that we can reduce the demand for or need for labor. So as I mentioned, let’s say you take cut and bend steel.
If you buy cut and bend steel it reduces the need for fitters. Same thing you are using automatic plastering machines for plastering. So it reduces the need for. I think a lot of steps are being taken in India. We are doing crane erection in tnd. You know tower erection by cranes which was never done in India before. So you know that reduces the need for erection. Gang, I think that’s the way you will have to address the labor shortage. Also a lot of work is happening with government, with power grid etc. On how do we skill labor and how do we get more people.
I think that that’s another piece on which lot of work is happening. The other I think the last piece is how do you work with large subcontractors who have got larger pool of labor. And I think that’s where I think some success is happening. So I think. I’m not sure that the labor shortage will go away but we do feel that it will not increase. It may come down a little bit. That’s what we have answered in our numbers.
Unidentified Participant
Sure sir. Lastly on the cables and conductors capex which you talked about 90 crore and 150 crore we are targeting this year. Just wanted to understand what is our capacity with respect to turnage and you talked about doubling of it. And second I wanted to understand what part would be in house and external customer. And also you talked about elastomeric and E beam which I assume is margin accretive. What kind of contribution we are looking from that PI in next two years when we since we’re done with the capacity expense.
Vimal Kejriwal
So Amit, today our cable margins are around I think 5.7 or 5.8 for the year. So we are clearly looking at it going to 8% in two years. I think that that’s the way we are looking at it. I don’t have the physical quantity, numbers etc. But I think the way we are looking at it is that both these new lines should add at least 500 crores each. So you know roughly around 1000 crores should go up by the new additions which we will do and another 500 crores will go up and the line which we already commissioned.
So hopefully you know, next year we should be around 23, 2400 crores of revenue in FY26 and maybe another thousand crores or so if we don’t do any other capex. So around 34, 3500 crores should be the cables revenue in FY27. And I think you asked the question on margins which is why we have been clear that the E beam and all that will definitely help. Even aluminum conductor has a slightly better margin and better working capital which is why we are hopeful that we will be reaching 8% in two years time.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you sir. Thank you so much.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thanks Amit.
operator
Thank you. Participants, you are requested to limit your questions to two per participant as there are several people waiting for their turn. The next question is from the line of Amit Mahavar from UBS. Please go ahead.
Amit Mahawar
Congratulations on concluding fiscal 25 with a strong impact on balance sheet. Visibly on that I just have one question. KC has never raised significant capital. In fact I don’t remember in the last two decades and please correct me if I’m wrong, you know, because you mentioned you will be looking at raising some money. So can you just elaborate more because the way you’ve judicially grown dnd, civil transportation, cable rental businesses, you’ve been very, very particular about working capital management. So what is the reason and next. Four or five years where are we. Scaling up to and what kind of cash cycle and cash flows are you looking at? Thank you sir.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thanks Amit. I think somewhere there’s some miscommunication maybe on my part. I didn’t say that we are looking for raising capital. There was a question saying what is your future for the cable industry? Cables Would you want to dilute what do you want to do something on cables and all that. So that that point of time I said that, you know, it’s premature. After two years we will decide what we want to do with cables. Maybe we’ll not do anything. Maybe we may decide that we need more capital in cables or may decide that we may need more capital.
It was a relative question whether you need more money or better returns will come from cables or kc. And we said that at that point of time if you want to, let’s say dilute our stakeholding in cables, we can either do it by an offer for sale from KEC or we can raise additional capital depending upon where the need for capital would be more. Okay, I don’t think I said that I want to raise capital in kec. But I don’t think we have any need, as you rightly said about raising capital.
Amit Mahawar
No, makes sense. That’s what I was wondering. And second and last question is in maybe 20, 29, 30, what is the business construct and mix that you foresee? And you’ve been managing the mix very well. Your transportation business is more than 2000 crores in top line. Now your business is moving towards a thousand crore. So 2030, come 2030, what is the business mix? That’s it, sir. Thank you.
Vimal Kejriwal
So at the point of time we had said that we’ll bring TND down to 40% at a point of time. Okay. But the way things are happening, I think it’s a very dynamic one. Today we are very happy for T and D to go to 70% or 75% with what 70. So I think it will be a bit too early. We have got, you know, we have got. Today we have got pnd, we have got renewables which is a dark horse in the whole system. Okay. And today there are hardly any EPCs except one large EPC in entire renewable.
You never know what will happen on the renewable part. Civil. Again we are not in heavy civil. We may decide to get into heavy civil because that’s where the whole country is moving on. Large construction, et cetera. So I think it’s difficult today to talk about where we will be in 29. If you ask me in 27. I think we are very clear that TNT would not be less than 60% for us. And at least 30% would be divided between civil and railways. Depending upon which one does better that that one would be more. And cables, I just gave you the numbers.
So I think 10% should be around cables. I think that’s where we are sort of looking at it. Renewables can be 3,000, can be four, can be five. I don’t know. Today it’s. It’s a bit of a gray area. But I think we are very confident. So I think with which which horse will run better or what will happen for 29 would be. We’ll wait and watch. Okay. But we have built the capability. So whichever one looks better we can always, you know, drive that one better.
Amit Mahawar
Makes sense. Thank you. Very helpful and good luck, sir.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar from Access Securities. Please go ahead.
Uttam Kumar
Yes, sir. Very good morning and thanks for the opportunity and congratulations. Very good set of members. Sir, my question pertains to oil and gas pipeline business. If you see this business has regrown. By over more than 40% in this particular year. So any particular reason for that? And how do you see this business panning out in next few years?
Vimal Kejriwal
I think at the moment our outlook for India oil and gas has been pretty muted. Okay. And the reason why the revenue grew down is. Okay. When we acquired this business there was a very clear talk that the contracts would get converted into epc, there would be supply of pipes and everything is part of it. Unfortunately that has not happened and we are seeing that the order size, the tender sizes are all below some hundred crores and all that. Where obviously we cannot be competitive with our large size and the way we operate our businesses.
So right now I don’t think we are seeing too much of positive growth coming out of oil and gas in India. However, as I said, we already are executing one order in Africa. We have started bidding for orders in the Middle East. So I think the growth of that business will definitely come only from the international order. Unless the oil PSUs in India and the gas companies change their model and start giving out much larger orders as they are giving out in refineries and other things. So we have been talking to them but as of now that is not visible.
Okay. So I think the growth, entire growth will come from the international market.
Uttam Kumar
For FY26 and 27.
Vimal Kejriwal
Capex I think I don’t have. I think we’re talking about 400 crores plus for FY26. Okay. FY27 will be slightly early but I think it would be in the same range because what has happened is that we have been investing in civil significantly year on year. So that investment is now reaching a sort of a peak. Unless we decide to, let’s say go into underground metros and all that. We are going to buy TBMs, etc. But right now I think you can take 400 crores for this year and maybe a similar amount for next year.
Uttam Kumar
Okay. That’s all from my side and wish you all the best.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thank you sir. Thank you.
operator
The next question is from the line of Ishan Verma, some incorrect capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to know what is our current capacities for TND post expansion and what is the kind of utilization factor we’re looking at? As in FY26 we are expected to grow 20% of our order work. So what kind of utilization factors are we seeing?
Vimal Kejriwal
So if you’re talking about the tower capacity we are around 462,000 metric plants today. Okay. And the factories, except for I think Mexico is Slightly underutilized, but It’s. It’s also 70, 80% I think. So that’s where we don’t have capacities available right now. They’re all fully utilized.
Unidentified Participant
Potentially would be to expand our capacities.
Vimal Kejriwal
So we will look at what is to be done. I don’t think we have any immediate plans for expanding further one or two factories. We have some spare capacity debottlenecking and et cetera. So we may go up another 10, 20,000 tons. But that’s still under discussion. We don’t have any active plan right now to expand. See, Ishan, you have to understand that we have a tower supply business also which sort of acts as a balancing figure or something. You know, depending upon if I have more EPC orders, I can always reduce my tower supplies intake or orders.
Okay, so we use that as a balancing factor. If I get more EPC orders, I will obviously cut down on my tower supply orders. That that’s the way we normally operate. Okay.
Unidentified Participant
What is the percentage of. What is it? Fixed price?
Vimal Kejriwal
Sorry, I didn’t get the question. Okay, fixed versus variable would be roughly 50%. Okay. Most of our civil orders would be on a variable pricing. Most of our transmission orders are on fixed price because of pbcb. Most of the orders. There are some orders which are on variable also, but typically civil would be more on. On variable than. Than. Than tnd. But what you also understand is that in tnb, et cetera, we normally do the hedging immediately as soon as we get orders. Okay. So exposure is very minimal except to steel, which is not directly hedgeable.
So steel is something which we stay open. Rest of that we are generally fully hedged.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thank you. And lastly, sir, if you can talk about some orders we are getting in the new technology segment wherein in P and E received the order on StratCom and in single segment we received an order on semiconductor plant. So what kind of additional capability do we need and how are these orders different from the current orders?
Vimal Kejriwal
So let me put it this way. In civil, the capability is not very different, but you need to do a very large project in 10 months, 11 months. So you will need to use all the. All that you know about execution excellence to ensure that you are able to build plant in the required time. It would also have a clean room, etc. Which is a very different technology, you know, which is dust proof and whatever. So I think we need to work on that part. That would add clear capability which can be used for other very smart electronic factories, etc.
Or even for let’s say a transformer factory or a GIS factory etc. As far as SATCOM is concerned, that is becoming a necessity virtually now because of the renewable power coming in. So there is a huge fluctuation in the grid frequency. So now you will require this to come in. This is a high technology product. So right now we don’t have anything on the product. But we are working with the product manufacturers. So that we can jointly work with them. Like what we do in the TCA sector in railways. So this. This will have a the market for this.
I think around 2000 crores per year if I’m not wrong. So we’ll see how much we can get out of it. Sorry, I didn’t understand what you want. Semiconductor.
Unidentified Participant
Similar outlook on the semiconductor plant order that we received. So are there any additional capability doing it on that?
Vimal Kejriwal
I told you already. You know that with that that is a fast track project. So we will have to work on how do we improve our execution capability. Plus, it’s a different kind of a ball game. So. So it will definitely up our capabilities. Thanks, Nishant. Thank you so much.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you.
operator
The next question is from the line of Harsh Tevne from Ashmore Investment Management. Please go ahead, Mr. Harsh. Yes, sir. The current participant line has been disconnected. We will move on to the next question. It’s from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor and company. Please go ahead.
Saket Kapoor
Namaskarji and team. And thank you for this opportunity. When you mentioned that EPC in the renewable space is heating up. If you could just elaborate what kind of opportunities especially for EPC in the universe is popping up. And what kind of pie are we buying out of it going ahead. And the margin profile of so Saket.
Vimal Kejriwal
If you look at the numbers, I think we are around 260 gigawatt of renewable as of now. Maybe 10 gigawatt here and there. We are targeting 500 gigawatt by 2030 and 600 by 2032. Which effectively means we need to set up at least 50 gigawatt every year. So that’s the sort of pie which you can see between wind, solar, hydro and to an extent nuclear. I don’t think nuclear will come by 2030. But I’m just saying that. So the requirement is very large. And also what we are seeing is that the number of players which are there.
Because what is happening is that the project sizes are going up. Okay. Today. If you look at what are the tenders which are on offer. 1200 megawatt. These sort of tenders are coming up for bidding which requires large EPC players. So clearly we are seeing that we can have a space in that entire EPC business. Solar we have one or two large players. Wind we do not have too many large players. All the OEMs who have been doing and I think with the growth in the market it is going beyond their capability also and they feel that they can make more money probably manufacturing rather than doing EBCs.
So I think that’s where we are looking at this market saying that there is a large opportunity looking at the balance 350 gigawatt of renewal to be built in the next 67 years .
Saket Kapoor
What should be the minimum order size then? If you could give some color of what kind of bidding process are minimum the size of pending that comes up.
Vimal Kejriwal
Difficult to say that but minimum if you take a. I think it is probably around 1:1 crore per megawatt for the. For the piece that we are doing one 1.25 crores per megawatt. So if it’s a 500 megawatt the order book would order would be around 600650 crores but we don’t do modules. This is minus the modules. Modules will be an equal amount so you know that’s the way the numbers will add up again.
Saket Kapoor
And the second question was about the amount being released for the water project. Are they all aligned to this jealous even scheme only and is there any constitutional change in terms of state participation and central withdrawing from the scheme any color on this because you categorically mentioned two states of Madra Pradesh and Orissa where the release of funds have been so if you could just whether it will be just even in the scheme of things changing with more trust now on the state to spend on the.
Vimal Kejriwal
Same so sake ji we are there’s no change as far as we know it depends individually upon each state when they have signed us typically it varies between 40 to 50% is my understanding of the state share some states is 40 some states it’s 50% the rest comes from the central government and all our orders are under the judge even mission so we are not aware of any changes which has happened in the constitutional part of it maybe on the funding There may have been some changes between the states and all that what they want to do and we are only present in these two states that’s why we talked about these two states.
Saket Kapoor
Only but things have improved that is.
Vimal Kejriwal
From the end of Q3 they have imported definitive.
Saket Kapoor
Thank you sir I’ll join the queue and all the best for very strong set of operational and financial numbers. Thank you.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thank you Saket ji. Thank you.
operator
The next question is from the line of Harsh Devne from Ashwar Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Hi sir. Good morning. I just had one question regarding the payment status of the Afghanistan dues. How much is still pending and when do we expect to receive it?
Vimal Kejriwal
So Harsh, we have not received anything this quarter. Okay. I think our net receivable is 250 or it’s roughly around 250 crores of net receivable. Okay. A lot of discussions have been going on. I think we are seeing some development happening. I think we are keeping our fingers crossed. A major part is from adb. I think they are all whatever they wanted has been completed. Unfortunately what happens is ADB has got a lot of projects Afghanistan. So they want to take in principle stand on all the projects. Unlike World bank and us they had very few projects.
So they could take very quick positions and release a lot of money. ADB because of its either exposure has been going a bit slow. But I think we are quite hopeful that we should be getting some money I think by next quarter if not little bit in this quarter also. We still have one month. We are keeping our fingers crossed.
Unidentified Participant
All right. So mostly by 2Q of 26 is when it will largely cleared by 2Q.
Vimal Kejriwal
We expect a large amount of this to come in. Okay.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Vimal Kejriwal
Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you sir. That was all from my side.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thanks. Thank you.
operator
The next question is from the line of Mehul Mehta from Choice Equity broking. Please go ahead.
Mehul Mehta
Good morning team. Thanks for the option and congrats on good set of numbers. My question is with relation to product portfolio cables can you share a breakup of revenue in terms of EHV HD cables, telecom railway cables.
Vimal Kejriwal
I don’t think I have the exact breakup But I think EHV HP would be roughly around 500 crores. That would be a broad number I have maybe if you want more detail Abhishek can give you. And I think on the railway side we would be probably around probably around 150 crores. Railway has been going down as a business. So we have been trying to see how do we utilize that facility if we are able to find some solution. Although with some remodeling we have started manufacturing LT there. But you know the entire electrification projects have come down.
So I think it was around 140, 150 crores of railway revenues.
Mehul Mehta
Okay, thanks. And in terms of Capex which you earlier said about 150 crores and 80, 90 crores. I missed that number. So what you are talking about FY24.
Vimal Kejriwal
And FY25 or FY25 was around 80, 90 crores. I don’t know the exact numbers will be around 80, 90 crores on the conductor line and some other things which we did on PVC Etc. And on next year FY26 we are talking about 150 crores which would be a mix of a second conductor line and an E Beam and ELIS facility. So FY26 will be 150.
Mehul Mehta
Okay. And in terms of revenue guidance it is about 3,500 crore by FY27. Is that correct?
Vimal Kejriwal
Yes. Yes, you’re absolutely right.
Mehul Mehta
Okay. Thank you so much and all the best.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thank you Mehvur for your interest. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vimal Kejriwal for closing comments.
Vimal Kejriwal
Thank you Steve. And thank you everyone for your continued interest. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of KEC International Limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.