Jupiter Wagons Ltd (NSE: JWL) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Jan. 30, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Vivek Lohia — Managing Director
Sanjiv Keshri — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Sudeep Anand — Analyst
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
CA Garvit Goyal — Analyst
Rajesh Bhandari — Analyst
Surabhi Saraogi — Analyst
Swanand Samant — Analyst
Devesh Kasliwal — Analyst
Akash Vora — Analyst
Analyst
Lakshmi Narayan — Analyst
Abhijeet Singh — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 and 9-Month FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of Jupiter Wagons Limited hosted by Systematix Group. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudeep Anand of Systematix Group. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Sudeep Anand — Analyst
Thank you, and good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining us today for Q3 and 9 Months FY ’25 Earnings Call of Jupiter Wagons. On behalf of Systematix, I would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this call. Today, we have with us Mr. Vivek Lohia, Managing Director; and Mr. Sanjiv Keshri, CFO.
Now I’ll hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks followed up by the Q&A session. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Vivek Lohia — Managing Director
Thank you, Sudeep. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us on this earnings call. It is my pleasure to share our performance for Q3 and 9-month FY ’25 and discuss our outlook on the sector and the opportunities ahead. We are pleased to report strong operational and financial performance for the quarter driven by consistent revenue growth, improved profitability and a healthy order book. For Q3 FY ’25, our revenue from operations stood at INR1,029 crores reflecting a 15% year-on-year increase. EBITDA grew by 19.5% year-on-year to INR148 crores with an EBITDA margin expansion of 14.4% from 13.9% in Q3 FY ’24. PAT increased 18.4% year-on-year to approximately INR97 crores with a PAT margin of 9.2% while EPS stood at INR2.29 per share.
Since acquiring Bonatrans India now renamed Jupiter Tatravagonka Railwheel Factory, we have successfully commercialized the asset and would be doubling the revenue vis-a-vis previous year. In the current 9 months of FY ’25, our strategic initiatives in key segments such as brake disc, axle boxes, specialized containers, axles, CMS crossing and brake systems have paid rich dividends. We have delivered 13,000 brake discs to Indian Railways and exported close to 10,000 axle boxes.
We have supplied 230 brake systems to Indian Railways for their passenger coaches. This precision driven approach has fueled steady growth and operational excellence, strengthened our market position and ensured alignment with our long-term goals. The JVs will start to earn profit from next year onwards on account of sustainable localization of manufacturing processes.
Our order book stood at INR6,320 crores as of December 31, 2024, reinforcing our growth potential and providing strong revenue visibility for the coming quarters. With a solid financial foundation and a robust execution pipeline, we can capitalize on future opportunities and drive long-term value for all our stakeholders.
The outlook for the sector remains bright, particularly with expectations that the 2025-2026 Union budget will drive a transformative leap for Indian Railways. Capital expenditure is expected to surpass INR3 lakh crores, making a significant 15% to 20% increase over the current fiscal. Our major focus will be on infrastructure modernization, including upgrading railway stations and introducing modern trains like the Vande Sleeper to transform long-distance travel.
To support capacity expansion and efficiency, Indian Railway is set to make significant investments in equipment procurement, including railway locomotives, coaches and wagons. With the forward-looking vision, Indian Railways is poised to deliver and drive economic growth, enhance passenger experience and reinforce their role as the backbone of India’s transport network. During the quarter, we took significant strides in expanding our presence in electric mobility.
We increased our stake in our subsidiary Jupiter Electric Mobility from 60% to 75%, strengthening our commitment to substantial transportation solutions. In October, JEM strengthened its leadership in electric mobility by acquiring Log9 technology and business assets for the railway and electric truck battery divisions.
This acquisition grants us full control over proprietary battery technology pushing us at the forefront of India’s transformation to electric trucks and railways while driving efficiency, sustainability and innovation. We have onboarded large number of dealers and have secured multiple financial partnerships, including leasing companies for eLCVs.
To enhance accessibility, we are introducing battery as a service for TEZ, offering a per kilometer battery leasing model that ensures cost parity with ICE vehicles. Additionally, the JEM Udaan program has been launched in collaboration with Porter, one of the largest business facilitators for driver cum owners to accelerate TEZ adaptation and also reiterating our commitment to the community. Commercial launch of the product is scheduled on 26th Feb 2025 and I’m proud to say that we already have order confirmations for over 500 TEZ vehicles.
More product variants on the TEZ platform will be introduced soon. Meanwhile, in the battery segment, we have received initial orders for lithium-ion battery systems for railways and other BESS operations and continue to actively pursue further opportunities in this space. Overall, with strong performance across both wagon and non-wagon segment, we are on a track for a balanced revenue mix and further growth driven by our focus on innovation, operational excellence and market leadership.
With this, I would like to open the floor for Q&A. Thank you and over to the moderator.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Darshil Pandya from Finterest Capital.
Darshil Pandya
Sir, just wanted to understand the INR3,000 crores QIP that we have approved. So what will be that used for?
Vivek Lohia
So Darshil, see honestly, it’s just an enabling resolution so there is nothing – it’s not that we are going to go for any kind of fundraise. As you are aware that this time we expect the railway budget to be very substantial and very growth oriented. So it is just a resolution the company has taken in case post budget there are major growth opportunities which come about. So as such, I would say that no immediate real position we have in terms of fundraise. It’s just an enabling resolution which we have.
Darshil Pandya
Got it. And sir, about the earlier QIP that we have done of around INR800 crores?
Vivek Lohia
And I would also like to reiterate that on the existing business, the company is very well funded. So we anticipate the budget to be quite substantial and if any growth opportunity which comes out of the budget, basically the company wants to be in a position to take that opportunity.
Darshil Pandya
Got it. And sir, I was just asking about the earlier fundraise that we’ve done of INR800 crores. How well have we utilized that funds or if you have fully utilized it? Can you let us know the status about it?
Vivek Lohia
Yes. That fundraise was specifically for our wheel project and the project is going on track. I think the deadline — so we have released — out of that, we have released the advance, which we had to release to the EPC contractor. And as per the remaining schedule, as and when the funds are going to be required in the project, it will be utilized.
Darshil Pandya
Okay. And sir, on a 9-month basis, what is the kind of revenue that Jupiter Tatravagonka has done?
Sanjiv Keshri
On the wheel business, it’s at INR225 crores turnover we have already.
Vivek Lohia
So we have achieved INR225 crores of turnover as against when we had acquired the company that had done a business of about INR120-odd crores and I think they had some losses also that year. So it’s a substantial turnaround for us and we expect to close this year close to about INR300 crores. And next year also.
Darshil Pandya
Is it profitable now?
Vivek Lohia
Yes, we are reporting EBITDA of over 12%. And I think next year we are looking to double this revenue. And post once the Orissa project for the backward integration kicks in, then as I’ve already mentioned that this would be more than a INR2,000 crore opportunity for us with substantial exports to the European market.
Darshil Pandya
Got it. And final question would be on, sir, in the last previous call, you did mention about wagons, you will be selling around 10,000-odd wagons for the full year, which seems a bit difficult. So your thoughts on that?
Vivek Lohia
No. What we had said was that we have increased our capacity to about 10,000 wagons, but I was very clear that we would be doing close to 9,000-odd wagons in this financial year and I’m very confident that we’ll be achieving those numbers. And for the next financial year, I mentioned that yes, our target is to go to up to 10,000 wagons and again we are very confident on those numbers also and we have the necessary order books also to execute that.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics.
CA Garvit Goyal
Sir, you just mentioned like 10,000 for FY ’26. Have I heard it right?
Vivek Lohia
Yes.
CA Garvit Goyal
But earlier I think in a couple of con calls, I’m pretty sure you mentioned 10,000 wagons for this year only.
Vivek Lohia
No, I’m not sure because we had always mentioned that — the capacity we had mentioned that this year would be about 10,000 and next year we said that we will increase — with our foundry coming online, we’ll increase the capacity to 12,000. So in terms of the execution numbers, no, we have never mentioned 10,000.
CA Garvit Goyal
That means for FY ’26, we are looking for 10% kind of growth, right?
Vivek Lohia
Yes. FY ’26 on the wagon business, yes, 10% to 15% kind of a growth. But the growth is going to come, as I mentioned, from the other businesses. The wheel business is going to — will be more than 100% growth there. The brake business is going to see a substantial growth because as I had committed in this year, we have started our supplies. The Kovis business is already doing quite well, it’s already profitable.
We are going to be launching our eLCVs very shortly. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, there’s a substantial demand. I think the demand has been quite overwhelming for us. We have done very good partnerships, very good financial partnerships. For the first time in this segment we are introducing battery as a rentable product, which has never been done, which lowers the acquisition cost of the vehicle.
We have introduced programs with players such as Porter, which help the drivers to get immediate work on buying of vehicles. So there’s lot of community-related things which we are doing. We have appointed now dealers in more than 8 to 10 cities and that’s also expanding. So that is I think going to be a huge growth driver for us.
Besides that, our container business is doing quite well. We have already started exporting containers to the North American market as well as the European market. So there will be growth from — definite there will be a growth from this year. But as I’ve always maintained that by ’27, ’28, we want wagons to be less than 50% of our revenues and I think that is where we are working towards.
CA Garvit Goyal
And I think in earlier calls, you also mentioned a target of INR8,000 crores, INR10,000 crores by FY ’28. So is that target intact?
Vivek Lohia
Yes, definitely, that target is completely intact. And that is where — that’s what I was coming to, where in terms of the wheel business, the container business, the auto business, the brake business will constitute a substantial part of those revenues.
CA Garvit Goyal
So if these businesses are going to contribute significantly in FY ’26 so what kind of overall growth in top line are we looking to in FY ’26, over and above FY ’25?
Vivek Lohia
In FY ’26, we are looking at a revenue of close to INR5,000 crores. I think that is what we have targeted.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from Rajesh Bhandari from Nakoda Engineers.
Rajesh Bhandari
Congratulations for the good numbers. Sir, what I am seeing is the quarterly turnover is more or less profit also more or less same though our operating profit margin and net profit margin percentage is good. But because of the very high equity that is coming down to around 2 or so, not even INR10 EPS is coming in per year basis. Any way that how this can be improved?
Vivek Lohia
See, Rakeshji, you have to also understand that the company is in a growth phase where as I’ve told you, we are starting to invest — especially on the wheel side or wheel business, we are making some major investments and that investment will take about 2 years, 2.5 years to play out. I think once that investment plays out and you start seeing the revenues from that business, you will see a substantial growth also happening and the earnings per share also will increase considerably as the company touches revenues of close to INR8,000 crores to INR10,000 crores and we expect the EBITDA margins to remain strong. So you will see that play out.
Rajesh Bhandari
INR8,000 crores to INR10,000 crores, which year, sir, you are expecting?
Vivek Lohia
As I mentioned, ’27-’28.
Rajesh Bhandari
Okay. And these containers, you are the only company, sir, in India for containers?
Vivek Lohia
No, there are other. But I think in terms of we are specializing and especially in battery storage containers and containers, there I think we have quite a substantial lead in the country because again, we are one of — maybe we are the only ones exporting also in a substantial manner.
Rajesh Bhandari
Double decker wagon tippler like Texmaco is planning?
Vivek Lohia
No, I don’t know anybody — I’m not aware of any. The only double-decker wagon which is there is for auto cars and I think we are the only ones today in the country who are making auto wagons, which can carry SUVs on both the decks. And recently we have got the approvals also from RDSO and we have huge order books from companies like Maruti on that. So we are very, very gung ho on that business and we expect it to be a strong contributor.
Operator
The next question is from Surabhi Saraogi from SMIFS Capital Markets.
Surabhi Saraogi
Sir, I just need a clarification. Sir, in your opening remarks, you said that with the acquisition of Jupiter Tatravagonka, your revenue is set to double.
Vivek Lohia
No, I did not tell double. I said the revenues of the business which we have acquired will double this year and next year we expect a further doubling of the revenues.
Surabhi Saraogi
Okay. So the revenue of Jupiter Tatravagonka will double?
Vivek Lohia
Yes, yes. And next year, we are looking to further doubling those revenues.
Surabhi Saraogi
Okay, sir. Got it. And sir, one last question regarding the Electric Mobility segment. What was the order confirmation that you said for the vehicles and lithium-ion battery systems, if you can repeat that point?
Vivek Lohia
So we are going to be launching a vehicle in February-end. So we have a order book of more than INR500 crores, which is there with us, which post launch we’ll be delivering those vehicles. And on the lithium space, what we have said is that now we have already got 10 orders from Indian Railways to supply BESS batteries to them. And we expect that because Indian Railways again has taken initiative now to go green and I think that business is going to grow in a substantial manner in the next 2 to 3 years.
Operator
Next question is from Swanand Samant from Klay Group.
Swanand Samant
So my question is again on the order book. So our order book kind of peaked out in March, right? From there, it’s quarter-on-quarter decreasing because of the kind of accelerated execution that we are. So again on the wagon order book, which we have which would be the majority of the order book, now the major order which came in ’22, correct me if I’m wrong, so that would be at the back end of the execution cycle, right? So with your conversations with the railway, how confident are you for again having such a major order in this year? That would be my first question.
Vivek Lohia
Okay. So as you must be aware that more than 50% of our execution is our private orders, railway orders also are very critical to that. We have been adding private orders at a very, very fast pace. And as you have seen that most — as you rightly mentioned that about 1.5 years back is when the railway issued their substantial order book. So after that if you look at our growth in the order book, it is mainly on account of the private order books and we continue to see a lot of momentum there. So that order book will keep on building.
On the railway side, we are very confident that in the next 3 to 4 months, railway will come out with a strong tender. In terms of the quantity, again I cannot tell you how much the quantity will be, but we anticipate it to be substantial. But obviously it will not be on account — it will not be as high as those 70,000, 80,000 numbers because that was on a certain — that time the base was very low so the railway had given those kind of orders. And you can also understand that the industry today also has close to about 18 months of order books in hand. So again the numbers will be substantial, but very difficult for right now to tell me exactly what kind of numbers it will be.
Swanand Samant
Okay. Got it. And second, again so for past few quarters we had that stance that we won’t be kind of getting into manufacturing of the metro or the Vande Bharat coaches as such because the competition there is aggressive and it doesn’t match our company profile margin on the margin side. So do you still kind of have the same stance or do you want to kind of get into that?
Vivek Lohia
No. Vande Bharat is something, as I’ve clearly mentioned, that it is not in our immediate scope and we also don’t see lot of any kind of Vande Bharat orders going to the private sector. So as I have mentioned clearly that majority of the order books are going to come on the component side where we are very strong. As we have seen that we have started supplying brake systems, brake disc to the Indian railways. Brake disc, we are the biggest — right now, we are one of the biggest suppliers. Brake systems also, I think now we are supplying — we have increased our supplies and next year we expect that business to also do very well.
Beyond that, again in couplers, we are again a major supplier of couplers for the passenger business for the Indian Railways. So I think on the component side, you will see a lot of growth which is going to happen because the railway refurbishment is going to happen for those 40,000 coaches plus railways, their internal coaching program is quite substantial which the railway workshops are going to manufacture. So yes, we are very clear on that. On the metro side, we have already mentioned that we have a MOU with CAF and we are participating in certain tenders with them. So as and when one of those tenders fructifies, so metro is something definitely in partnership with CAF we are looking to enter.
Swanand Samant
Okay. Got it. And so I had 1 more question. So we have the European partner as our shareholder as well. So we always talk about when the wheel manufacturing will come in ’27-’28, we would also supply to them. But on the other products which we have; brakes, couplers, gears and everything; do we have an opportunity also to kind of supply to them as well because right now I think we are not supplying to the European partner, right?
Vivek Lohia
No, we are. The brake disc, axle boxes are going to Europe. We are supplying to them. So it’s not that we are not supplying to them I think, but the biggest opportunity is definitely on the wheel sets and axles. And again you can see from the name of that business so it’s a very strong partnership there. So that is I think going to be the biggest opportunity and we are really looking forward to that.
Operator
Next question is from Devesh Kasliwal from Antique Stock Broking.
Devesh Kasliwal
Congratulations, sir, on a good set of numbers. I had 2 questions. The first one was what is the pipeline currently for the wagon orders over this current year? And the second one was in the electric mobility, what is the overall execution that we are expecting, the competitive intensity there as well as the margin profile that we have on that?
Vivek Lohia
Repeat the second question, I could not hear you properly.
Devesh Kasliwal
Electric mobility, I wanted to understand the competitive intensity, the margin profile as well as the execution like the delivery schedule over there. Like from the time of getting an order, what is the overall schedule that we are getting?
Vivek Lohia
Okay. So on the electric mobility, right now I think the only vehicle which is available in the market in the segment which we are launching is Tata has a vehicle. That is the only vehicle which is available. So honestly, I don’t know what vehicles are going to come in future. So our competitors, we have just 1 competitor in that segment right now.
In terms of the capacities, I think we have set up a plant to manufacture close to 10,000 vehicles annually. I think that is the plant capacity which we have. In terms of I think the margins and other things, I think it’s too early. I think once we start delivering our products, I think that will become more clearer. But definitely, I would say the margins are positive in that business for us. In terms of the wagon order book.
Sanjiv Keshri
Tender pipeline for this current year?
Vivek Lohia
I think he is asking total order book which we got.
Devesh Kasliwal
No, no, no. I’m asking what is the pipeline going ahead for this financial year?
Vivek Lohia
Pipeline going ahead. So right now, the private order book INR5,500 crores. INR5,500 crores of private order book, which we have.
Devesh Kasliwal
Entirely on the wagon side?
Vivek Lohia
On the wagon side, the total order book is close to about INR5,500 crores.
Devesh Kasliwal
Sorry, sir, I was asking going ahead, what are the tenders like how many wagon tenders are there in 2025 that you see visibility of?
Vivek Lohia
We expect a substantial tender to come from Indian Railways for the next financial year, the requirement for the next financial year. Again to give numbers is very difficult, but we expect the numbers to be decent. As I mentioned, the private order book continues to be strong for us. So we expect at least close to more than INR2,000 crores of private order book, which we are going to add. And again the Indian Railway, very difficult for me to project numbers.
Operator
The next question is from Akash from Dalal & Broacha Stock Broking.
Akash Vora
First of all, congrats, Vivek sir, on a decent set of numbers. So my question would maybe be on FY ’26, sir. We are projecting INR5,000 crores of top line there. So what kind of consolidated margins do we plan to achieve in the next year considering that electric vehicle sales would also be embedded in that top line, right?
Vivek Lohia
Yes, definitely, that will be. I think our margins, again I will not give out any definite numbers, but what I can very confidently say that the margin profile will be better than this financial year.
Akash Vora
On a consolidated basis, is it? So if you’re doing around 14.5% this year so it will be better than that next year?
Vivek Lohia
We expect it to be better than that.
Akash Vora
Understood. Okay. And sir, just wanted to understand any EV sales we are expecting this year for FY ’25?
Vivek Lohia
Yes, we will be because as I’ve told you, February end is when we are launching the vehicle. So our deliveries will start from March onwards.
Akash Vora
Understood. And sir, what have been the order inflows this quarter and for the full 9 months this year?
Vivek Lohia
Order inflows in terms of which segment?
Akash Vora
For wagons.
Vivek Lohia
Again those numbers we don’t have readily available, but we can share with you. But readily, honestly it’s not available with me right now.
Akash Vora
Understood. Just one last question from my side. So I think you have estimated around the Jupiter Tatravagonka revenue to double next year. So we are doing around INR300 crores by this year so INR600 crores by next year. So out of that, how much would be captive and how much would be for third party?
Vivek Lohia
See, again I cannot give you any accurate estimation, but we expect it to be about 50-50. 50% would be captive and 50% would be to Indian Railways and other players.
Operator
The next question is from Rohit Singh from Nvest Analytics. There seems to be no response from the line of Rohit Singh. We’ll move to the next question. The next question is from Sachin, who is an Individual Investor.
Analyst
Congratulations on a good set of results, Mr. Lohia. Just want to ask what were the challenges that we faced in the launch of the EVs? We’ve seen the timelines move a number of times and we were actually expecting by second week of January we would see the vehicles launch, but now we’re talking about February and only a month worth of sales. What were the challenges and are they like really ironed out or are we expecting more challenges in terms of production, supply and vendors and all of that?
Vivek Lohia
So no, the challenges are ironed out. I don’t think in terms of the launch right now, we have any further challenges. I think even in terms of the delay, it’s not been substantial. It’s very minor delays. So I think more than the timelines, I think we wanted the launch to be around from Jan to Feb because there was a certain change in the battery technology and we wanted to launch the vehicle with the upgraded battery technology rather than with the earlier battery technology. So that is what caused this delay of 1.5 months. Otherwise I think we were on track.
Analyst
Also, sir, the battery as a service, isn’t it going to be heavy on our balance sheet that we need to start funding the usage or do we actually have someone to pick up the bill on that?
Vivek Lohia
No, no, no. It’s not going to be funded on our balance sheet. It is, as I’ve mentioned in my opening remarks, that we have got into a partnership for that. We have onboarded partners who are going to be providing both. In terms of financing also, we have onboarded large number of partners and for the battery as a service also, we have onboarded partners.
Analyst
Okay. And my second question was with regards to the enabling provision, right? We have once again gone for equity and I don’t know if you noticed, but I don’t think your existing investors really give a thumbs up for dilution of equity when the revenues and profitability is not going up in the same scale, right? We’re looking at 20% dilution at a time when we are growing at around 17%, 18%. So why do we keep choosing equity? Debt is also possible. Do we really need to reduce the value for the shareholders because every time?
Vivek Lohia
As you mentioned, it’s just an enabling provision. So this doesn’t mean that we are going to raise money to the amount which we have taken. We expect post tender a lot of growth opportunities may arise. So as I mentioned very clearly that it is just an enabling resolution. And definitely if and when — and this is just for the future growth prospects. As I’ve also mentioned that we don’t need any equity right now to fund any of our existing businesses or the businesses which we have already announced. It is an enabling resolution and as and when if any growth opportunity arises, definitely we will be also looking both at a mix of debt and equity to fund that. It will not be a purely debt kind of funding.
Operator
Next question is from Lakshmi Narayan from Ksema Wealth Private Ltd.
Lakshmi Narayan
Sir, I just wanted to know the expected revenue for brake business for the whole year, sir?
Vivek Lohia
About INR250-odd crores. I think that’s what we had projected also for this financial year, we’ll be achieving that.
Lakshmi Narayan
Okay, sir. My next question is on this battery as a service, sir. Could you just let me know what the cost per kilometer, how much it will be there?
Vivek Lohia
I think that will be announced closer to the launch. I think that’s proprietary information, which right now which we cannot disclose.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The next question is Jyoti Ranjan Pandey who’s an individual investor.
Analyst
So first of all, congratulations, sir, for another fantastic number both basically Y-o-Y and Q-on-Q. So I think couple of questions what I have got. Do we see any potential risk especially like this global tariff or what’s basically being called out by Trump especially to the overseas market where we have got exposure?
And additionally, sir, I mean my follow-up question was around this QIP only where we said that — you mentioned that there is a provision for INR3,000 crores possibly by QIP route. Is there basically a time line where we could be thinking to utilize these for any potential opportunities? Any other further acquisitions those are planned? If you could share some details, that would be very helpful.
Vivek Lohia
On the QIP, as I’ve already mentioned, that is just an enabling resolution. Honestly, I cannot pinpoint. Again it is just taken an enabling resolution because we expect just keeping in mind the budget and there is very strong indications from the government that it’s going to be a very growth-oriented budget with lot of railway capex, which is going to be announced. So beyond that, we keep on evaluating opportunities so if we find that anything which is lucrative and which adds substantial value to the company, that is something we can also look at. But yes, and as I mentioned, it’s an enabling resolution. So nothing specific out of the firm in terms of any kind of plans which we have. And what was your second question, sorry?
Sanjiv Keshri
It’s in export market due to.
Vivek Lohia
Yes. See, as we don’t have much exposure to the North American market. A lot of our sales is domestic and otherwise also our exposure is mainly to the European market. So we don’t see any kind of challenges in the European market with regard to any action that Mr. Trump takes.
Operator
Next question is from CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics Advisory.
CA Garvit Goyal
Sir, just 1 more question in continuation with my earlier questions only. At the onetime, you are saying railway is very much positive in the upcoming budget like you are looking for a fundraise also if the opportunities come in the budget. At another point of time, you are saying we are going to just grow by a percentage of like 17% to 18%. So these 2 things are not getting matched. So can you help me to understand like what kind of growth trajectory we are targeting, like what is the current outlook? What challenges are you seeing in the industry?
Vivek Lohia
See, right now what we are projecting is in terms of the current order books we have and the way we expect our businesses to grow. So today in terms of what the budget throws us, obviously we cannot capture that till we get to know the announcements from the budget. But we are very, very hopeful that it will be a very strong budget and it will lead to a lot of substantial growth opportunities.
But honestly, still we are not fortune tellers so unless specific announcements are made, very difficult for us to capture that. And in terms of the growth, in the next 3 years we are looking to double our revenues. So I don’t see how you’re talking about 15% to 18% because by ’28, we are talking of revenues of close to INR8,000 crores to INR10,000 crores. So it’s basically doubling our revenues from this financial year.
Operator
Next question is from Abhijeet Singh from ICICI Securities.
Abhijeet Singh
Sir, my question is we’ve been talking about pretty strong demand coming in from the wagon segment, both the Indian Railways and the private side. Sir, what could be a key risk that these orders, the demand that we anticipate of around 35,000 to 45,000 per annum that the risk to this number not coming through or getting delayed beyond a point?
Because as I understand, all these orders are quite lumpy. The last huge order we got was about 2 years back. So I mean there is no regularity in terms of the ordering from both these pockets. So what could be a key risk that could lead to a delay in orders or maybe orders not meeting our expectation of this kind of huge demand?
Vivek Lohia
I think it’s a very valid question, which you have asked. So on the private side, the order books are not lumpy so we get regular order books. So there, as I have told you, we expect the order books to remain strong. On the Indian Railway side, see, you have to also realize that they had released an order book for 3 years of execution.
So we had built capacities and we were executing those orders and I think those orders will get executed by the coming financial year. So we expect railways to come up with substantial tenders. But obviously it will not be on — we don’t expect those 70,000, 80,000 numbers to repeat because those were a 3-year order book. I think now we expect them to be more of annualized kind of order books, which railway will release.
So definitely, I think there will be orders coming from Indian Railways because they have been growing their infrastructure substantially. They have been making a lot of investments in the infrastructure especially also on the freight infrastructure. They have already in the last budget, they have announced 3 more freight corridors for which I believe work has already started. So we don’t see those a lot of challenges in terms of those order books not coming through.
Abhijeet Singh
Right. So you’re saying that by FY ’26 end, we will be able to — might be able to execute the previous cycle of orders that we got?
Vivek Lohia
Yes. And the new order book obviously will get executed in FY ’27.
Abhijeet Singh
Right. And sir, what will be a typical time from the bidding start to be executable up to the time when we get the orders finally?
Vivek Lohia
Typically, if you stretch it also, it’s about 4 to 6 months kind of a cycle.
Abhijeet Singh
So it’s not that long, right?
Vivek Lohia
Not very long.
Operator
The next question is from Richa from Equitymaster.
Analyst
My question is what would be the mix of non-wagon revenue and what is the delta margin difference between wagon and non-wagon segment of revenue?
Vivek Lohia
So again I think it’s again very product specific. On the braking business, we expect the margins to be better than the wagon revenues. I think on our container business as the CV business is a new business for us so right now I don’t think I’ll be in a position to comment on that. The wheel business, I think right now the margin profile is going to be very similar. I think once we are able to set up our integrated facilities, we expect the wheel margins to improve considerably. And that is why I’m very confident that going forward, our margin profile of the company is going to improve.
Analyst
And on wagons, what kind of margins do we make?
Vivek Lohia
I think about close to — again it depends from order to order. So readily that number is not available with me, but we can share the same with you.
Analyst
Okay. And sir, any kind of mix within the order book, what kind of share do you expect from the private versus — or what is the current mix between the private and railways?
Vivek Lohia
I have mentioned that right now it’s close to 50%. 50% of our order book is private and the rest is Indian Railways. And again I think on a long-term basis, we expect it to remain the same because we have a lot of private order books right now, which have very long-term visibility.
Analyst
Okay. And sir, in the CV segment, I know it’s too early, but you would have some kind of number in your mind that this should be the margin that we should be making. So what that number would be?
Vivek Lohia
I think right now our focus is to launch the vehicle, establish our dealer network, our service network. I think margins is something which I think is not something which we are currently focused on. So this is where we are working. But as I mentioned that definitely it is going — margins are going to be positive for us.
Operator
Thank you very much. We’ll take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management team for closing comments.
Vivek Lohia
Thank you, everyone, for your set of questions. We are very excited about the opportunities ahead and remain committed to driving substantial growth, operational excellence and innovation. With a strong financial foundation, a robust order book and a steady build-out of capacities and capabilities; we are well positioned to capitalize on the sector’s growth momentum. Thank you for taking the time to join our earnings call and we look forward to interacting again next quarter.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]