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Jindal Saw Limited (JINDALSAW) Q3 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

JINDALSAW Earnings Concall - Final Transcript

Jindal Saw Limited (NSE:JINDALSAW) Q3 FY23 Earnings Concall dated Jan. 30, 2023.

Corporate Participants:

Vikash Singh — Investor Relations

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Narendra Mantri — Chief Financial Officer

Analysts:

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Abhishek Maheshwari — SkyRidge Wealth Management — Analyst

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Miraj Shah — Arihant Capital — Analyst

Hiten Boricha — Joindre Capital — Analyst

Dewang Sanghavi — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Akanksha — Brickwork Ratings India Private Limited — Analyst

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Jindal Saw Q3 FY23 Earnings Conference Call hosted by PhillipCapital India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikash Singh from PhillipCapital India Private Limited. Thank you and over to you sir.

Vikash Singh — Investor Relations

Good afternoon, everyone. A very warm welcome on Jindal Saw Q3 FY23 earnings call. From the management side, today we have with us Mr. Neeraj Kumar, Group CEO and Whole-Time Director; Mr. Vinay Gupta, President and Head Treasury; and Mr. Narendra Mantri, President Head Commercial and CFO. Without taking much of the time, I would just hand over the call to Mr. Neeraj Kumar for the opening remarks, over to you sir.

Operator

Good afternoon shareholders, stakeholders, friends. Last week, we had our Board meeting, and I hope all of you have received the note that we circulate which is customary after the Board meeting. Just to go over some of the highlights of the performance on the standalone and consolidated basis. This quarter we had a turnover of INR4641 crores. As compared to INR3367 crores trailing quarter, INR2851 last quarter which is respectively 38% and 63% growth. EBITDA [indecipherable] however, let me point out upfront, out of these 598, 113 is an accounting entry, it’s not a real income, it is something that has to be recognized. As per the accounting standard and therefore if you remove that 598 minus 113 is 485.

So 485 also has shown a growth EBITDA of 61% and 140%, respectively, for the last two quarters, as we are comparing. The financial expenses 138 versus 126 last quarter. Out of this 138, if you see there is a financial cost INR13 crores has been because of the foreign-exchange fluctuations. And in addition to the top-line is 19, so the net gain is [multiple speakers] crores. So overall, if you look at the performance. As we have been saying and as we have been waiting the performance is impressive. It is a healthy growth. It is — all the parameters that you would look at in a performance has improved and has shown a trend which gives us a comfort that indeed we have had all down[phonetic] and a comprehensive improvement in the performance which has been under some kind of a pressure in the last few quarters, because of the reasons that we have been explaining and we have always given a hope to all our friends and investors that this is a temporary blip for which enough actions are being taken and we should be out of it. And this quarter is the first indicator.

Now, indeed we are on the path of progress which is actually a result of a lot of hard work, a lot of management input that has gone in setting up the business model that we have today namingly first is the variable price. If you look at the last few quarters. The performance has been largely suppressed not because of the topline got suppressed but because the raw-material prices, they are completely out of whack. We have succeeded in getting most of our clients, including government clients to accept now a variable price model for the revenue there. One of the key or two of the key benchmark parameters in the raw-material prices, where the raw-material prices are correlated actually is the index-based on which there is a variable price mechanism further topline.

That has begun to show results. Going forward, it would take its more impact. The other very important thing which has started showing results is our effort and focus on moving up the value chain, moving towards premium products, moving towards value added products, and moving towards this segment which hitherto has not been addressed by the domestic players. So Atmanirbhar Bharat has helped us in that effort. Now we have been able to substitute a lot of product from import into domestic sector, where we have been the predominant supplier.

So on the business side these two are very significant development within the system, which is giving us a lot of comfort that going-forward we will continue to bear good results on the back of these two important factors. If we now look at our consolidated results again just to broadly take the numbers topline, 5202 as compared to 406,735,09[phonetic]. EBITDA 539 here we don’t need to reduce that 113 because that’s a quantity whilst we take the consolidated results. So, 539 as compared to 355 and 242, again a similar result where you would see that not only Jindal Saw performance has improved all other subsidiaries are now contributing in a positive manner in the EBITDA — at the EBITDA level even down below so all subsidiaries are beginning to do well, except for this quarter the Abu Dhabi subsidiary as compared to the comparable quarter last year.

The performance has been a little lower, but that’s again a temporary phenomena. We have enough order book. Now, the supply-chain is there and hopefully, towards the end of fourth quarter, there should be some catching-up that must happen. But the good result overall that all our subsidiaries are not now contributing to the business and that is shown in the consolidated results. Another very important thing that on which we have always been keeping a very strong eye on and have been showing the trend is the debt profile of the company.

Even though on-top of our topline growth on-top of a very good performance we have actually been able to bring the net-debt down either at a consolidated level or at a stand alone level. Everywhere across-the-board the loan continues to come down. Even though trade finance is very much a part and parcel of our operations. The long-term debt is now. Hovering around INR1,200 crores for Jindal Saw on a network of over INR6,000 crores by any standards, we are in a very-very healthy position when it comes to debt servicing, when it comes to the interest rate or [indecipherable]. So on our debt position the balance sheet continues to remain strong, continued to build strong and we intend to keep that trend. We intend to keep that tight control on our debt position going-forward.

So that broadly covers the high-level performance indicators that I have given. Some of the key drivers that we have said, namely the value product, as well as the variable price that we have been able to achieve. So broadly, this is where — now let’s look at the second important thing when you see results like this in a quarter. I’m absolutely certain, the first thing would all of you want to know is this sustainable. Do we have a momentum? and is this more by toil, by hard work, or is this just by chance. I wish to give you comfort. That this is a result of a diligent hard work that we have been doing and that all of you even if you are seeing our results there is a certain pattern that is emerging, there is certain consistency that we have in our performance.

Obviously, we have faced extraordinary situations in terms of commodity price in terms of pandemic but still on the core operations, there has been a certain amount of consistency and that continues — that will be the backbone on which we are confident that the next few quarters our performance would remain very strong. If you look at the order book, very healthy order book on all segments and very balanced, both in terms of domestic as well as international exports. The way the rupee is moving, that also is giving us comfort that at least we do not have any major foreign-exchange risk as it is we never use foreign-exchange position for speculative purposes.

We are usually hedging based on a conservative strategy. But that again gives us comfort that on that front on our export businesses we shall not be putting any of our revenues at risk. So a healthy order book. Good mix of export versus domestic. 35% roughly is our export order book which is healthy, confirmed, and this kind of an order book which is about $1.3 billion which if you recall, just a few quarters back was deliberately kept at lower than our sweet spot, which is around a $1 billion. So now since we are ready, we have got a lot of capacity available in the large dia[phonetic]. The large dia order book deliberately, we have swelled and we will continue to perform.

There is no constraint on the capacity side. So large dia business is likely to be now a driver for the next quarter or so. We also have some significant export orders in the basket. Very large orders where we would maintain the delivery, we would maintain now the revenue stream, it will all be there. So looking at the performance and the order book and our positioning in the market we are confident that the momentum would continue and we should have a good next few quarters that is something that we are very, very confident about.

As I said, one of the strengths would be the premium segment that we are entering be it stainless, be it seamless everywhere the premium segment continued — will continue to improve our EBITDA percentage, will continue to improve our margins. The important aspect is that now the JV with hunting the machineries are under trial. We have already applied for the API license. And as we said, the soft launch will happen anytime soon. Definitely during this year and hopefully early next year, that means by the mid of calendar year ’23 we should have the grand opening of the JV between Jindal and Hunting.

Everything is on track. All the machines have been delivered. The trials are going on. As I’ve said, API license has been applied and will continue to help us, once we have this moving. Now China is an important factor, has always been an important factor in our business. But I hope a combination of many factors probably the impact of China on our business would become lesser as we continue because now there is some anti-dumping duty. There is some other protection, which is available. So, fact is going to reduce the impact on our business and that makes us feel confident that the China story we would now continue to do our business more independently than what the impact of China or interference of China would be on our business.

One good thing that also we are seeing is that a certain amount of stability in the raw-material prices. The raw-material prices have not gone back to the pre-COVID levels. But the volatility has largely reduced and slowly we are seeing that trend, where they are settling to a more reasonable level. So, that being what we have at this point of time with the order book is again, is not a matter of concern for us. Looking at now domestic situation one thing that I must emphasize that even though we have a healthy order book. But we continue to focus on the domestic market more.

Going-forward, a few quarters if I look forward again our emphasis is on domestic market because we believe that the global recession would have a lesser impact on the domestic market, because in India the demand-supply especially in the kind of products that we have kind of balances itself. So with Atmanirbhar Bharat in place kind of giving the domestic market and kind of our protection and with a demand-supply kind of matching we continue to focus our attention on domestic market and we believe that this would actually counter a global recession assuming what now people are saying about US and Europe, were to happen. Still we believe that our businesses would not get impacted to that extent and therefore we are basing our strategy on a strong India strategy, strong support from Atmanirbhar under Atmanirbhar Bharat and therefore, a limited impact on the global recession.

Most of our order book that are there we again believe are from countries which would continue with their projects because this — there has been a lot of pent-up demand in oil and gas sector post pandemic. So we believe that these projects that we have in our order book will go to fruition, will go for a complete and some of the projects are very large projects and very important projects for those respective countries. So we hope that they will definitely work. Oil and gas is one sector where we are seeing some domestic buying because of the prices and again some pent-up demand. So both oil India, ONGC everywhere we are seeing some healthy buying and we hope this will continue. Another very important aspect is, now we are entering the election year and therefore we believe that this budget which is going to come, the national budget, I’m talking about will continue to lay emphasis on the infrastructure projects on-the-water projects — on these projects because now we are running the last year of this government.

That again gives us confidence that we have a good visibility and the momentum that we need will continue for the next three to four quarters for sure based on the government support to the infrastructure project, just before the election here. But not — last not the least two news. A, we are awaiting the NCLT order on Sathavahana any moment, everything has been cleared, the order has been reserved by the judges. So we expect the order to get announced no sooner than it is announced. I’m sure we would inform all of you via the stock exchange and. Again NTPC JITT we have continued to talk about it, but now it is slated for hearing in March.

Anyway, if you see the impact of that even though it’s a high aggregate number and the overall business is getting diminished day by day because our other businesses are growing. So with that I think I should halt, I hope I have covered all the aspects and I would leave some time for questions answers. My request, let’s try and finish this by five because there is something which is important, which we have to — which I have to look after at five. So let me leave enough time for some question-and-answers. Thank you all. Thank you.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Riya from Aequitas Investments. Kindly proceed.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Hi, good afternoon. Congratulation on good set of numbers. My first question in terms of what kind of pipeline or the bid[phonetic] book are we seeing in terms of oil and gas whereas the [indecipherable] order book.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

If you see the 60,000, which is about $94 million and so our large dia is completely oil and gas and out-of-the $337 million of large dia [indecipherable] significant part probably 20% is in oil and gas.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. And in terms of the order basically, the pipeline, what kind of orders are you seeing in the future apart from the current order book, which we have?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Very healthy. See, normally we do not speculate on the sales front, we don’t announce. But at this point of time the sales funnel is very, very healthy. I can give you that assurance.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay. My next question would be, in terms of Jaljeevan what kind of execution are we seeing considering the election coming up and what kind of order inflows are coming from that?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

So at this point of time, we are all running full capacity. And Jaljeevan, the way they are announcing projects in all the states. I think we will continue to run full capacity, that is where I am caveating Sathavahana order getting announced, we’ll add another maybe two lakh plus tons to our ductile iron pipe facility. In Sathavahana we are continuing to do well, and hopefully we’ll do more than five lakh tonnes there for sure. So overall, then we would have a run-rate capacity of 7.5 which I think would keep us busy for the entire Jaljeevan Mission water projects.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Right. And then [technical issue] we received last quarter I think it was for NEOM. So how is the execution for that and could you give more details on that order.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Sorry, which one?

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

The NEOM.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Yeah, the NEOM. We are expecting the advance anytime. Once we get the advance then we count 12 to 15 months for the execution of that. And that’s a fairly large value contract, it’s about over $300 million. But once we receive the advanced then the call — then we look at 15 months from there. So, hopefully. If we get the advance here then the next full-year most of the project should be executed. That is one big project that I was telling you about in terms of the export order being water and being for the new capital city which is being built-in Saudi, so that should be a good project and we hope that it will progress as planned.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay, also my next question would be, in terms of the order book currently almost 35% is from export, could you give me a geographical breakup for the [technical issue]

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

What break-up you need?

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Export order book breakup.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

It’s already given 35% is the export order. So what further breakup are you looking for?

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Country-wise.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Normally we don’t give those because, see, the reason why we don’t want to give you country-wise, because we don’t want to confuse. Many times what I have seen that giving too much details where people have a small span of attention, it creates more confusion than. But as you know, out of these major export order of 466, 300 is beyond. Plus, we have some very good projects in the Middle-East. Europe, we have some large ductile projects. Saudi we have some large DI projects. But we don’t usually give the country-wise breakup, because then we also have a product mix so that matrix becomes too much complex.

Riya Mehta — Aequitas Investments — Analyst

Okay, got it. I think that is it and I’ll join the queue for further questions.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital. Kindly proceed.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Hello.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Yeah, hi, good afternoon.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Yeah, thank you very much sir for the opportunity. So, sir I just wanted to understand in your opening remarks you mentioned that you expect EBITDA margin to continue to improve, right. So what sort of steady-state EBITDA margin because, I think, before this raw-material fiasco hit us, we were consistently in the range of maybe what 12% to 13%, 14% rate in terms of margin.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

See, okay. A very good question. With the improved margins on the value-added products and stability of the raw-material where all the inventories of the high-value raw material are consumed. So, once, a steady state is attained which we expect that should happen in a month — sorry in a quarter or so. Our sweet-spot of EBITDA would be upward of 14%.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Okay and that we expect both 1/4 we can maybe by first-quarter we can achieve?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Maybe in the second-quarter of this year if there is — if the commodity prices continue to behave. Then we can expect that.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Second-quarter FY24. Right?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Yes.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Okay, fair enough I understood. And sir in any kind of outlook you want to share on the growth part. I mean in terms of topline, how do we see that next year FY24.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Growth. I would be — I would say, healthy, but I would not hazard a number at it.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Okay, fair enough. I understood. And any sort of capex so I’m not sure.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Major capex — capex, as we continue to maintain that we do not have any major capex, however. I must tell you are beginning to once we have completed the acquisition of Sathavahana once we have brought our debt in control there is a lot of pressure from Government of Rajasthan. Also there is some business reasons where nothing on the cards as yet. But we may start looking at the steel project in Bhilwara in a much more truncated form. Earlier what we were thinking of was a fairly large and elaborate, but it would be in a much more truncated form. Primarily as a backward integration to our Nashik and [indecipherable]. We just do billets to support those business. But these thoughts are initial thoughts. I must caveat it but think in terms of concrete steps taken. Nothing in terms of [indecipherable].

But on the horizon maybe over the next 12 to 18 months that we may think of those as the next phase for value addition growth. Once we have completed whatever all that we have in terms of [indecipherable].

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Satisfied. Understood, understood. And my final question is on your debt part. I mean you did mention that you expect it to go down and this trend to — to keep that trend going, right, in terms of our reduction in debt in-spite of the growth that we’re seeing. So some kind of I mean comments you can provide that how do you see the debt over the next two years?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

See, debt all I can tell you is whenever there is a repayment, see, we don’t want to accelerate any repayment and get into any prepayment penalty, et-cetera. So whenever the debts are falling due we are repaying it and therefore there is a natural progression towards the long-term debt moving in a certain in one direction. As far as the working capital is concerned, as I told you, trade finance for us is very much co-related to our operations by itself. So we are making an attempt to manage that very, very diligently; very, very efficiently. Reduce our working capital cycle, but in aggregate terms, it will more or less track the topline.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Okay, so ideally when you see growth there has been working capital days should [technical issues].

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Will go up, yes, because that is how the business is, that is what the nature of this business is.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

Go down, right?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

No when the turnover goes up, you will see the working capital inflation will go up because all our purchases are LC based, all our receivables from government always has a credit period of 60 days to 90 days. So the working capital utilization will be positively correlated to the topline.

Deepak Poddar — Sapphire Capital — Analyst

That’s it from my side. All the very best. Thank you.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Abhishek Maheshwari[phonetic] from SkyRidge Wealth Management. Kindly proceed.

Abhishek Maheshwari — SkyRidge Wealth Management — Analyst

Yeah, hi, thank you for taking my questions. Many congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, first thing if you could share the EBITDA margins that we make on our pellet division, if it’s possible?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Pellets. Yes, we have reported, it is about 10,000, it’s 9,900 to be exact. So INR10 is what we are making on pellets as an EBITDA.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

They are talking margins. This is realization — pellet realization.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Pellet realization is about INR10,000 per ton, yeah.

Abhishek Maheshwari — SkyRidge Wealth Management — Analyst

Okay and margin [technical issue]

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

No, we don’t share the margins as I told you, we never shared the EBITDA margin segment-wise, because that we believe is one of the USPs of Jindal Saw.

Abhishek Maheshwari — SkyRidge Wealth Management — Analyst

That’s okay, sir, no problem. Sir, secondly, any plans of expansions in iron ore pellet division or if you have any plans to acquire coal mines going ahead to scan linear[phonetic] supply chains.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

No, no mine acquisition on the cards. Only thing that we were talking about or we may think sometime in the future is I have spoken to you about a smaller truncated version of a steel plant, otherwise no more — no acquisition. Coal mine for sure, no.

Abhishek Maheshwari — SkyRidge Wealth Management — Analyst

Okay, and neither iron-ore at this point?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

See, iron-ore, there are certain mines which are in the close proximity to our existing mine. And they are all very low-grade iron ore’s. So there we may have an advantage, and if they are they come attractive [indecipherable], but otherwise are we into a very strong bidding for mining, iron ore. No, except for in Rajasthan, where we have synergy low-grade, where we have a strategic advantage. Coal, definitely no.

Abhishek Maheshwari — SkyRidge Wealth Management — Analyst

Okay sir, that’s it from my end. And thank you very much.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Miraj from Arihant Capital. Kindly proceed.

Miraj Shah — Arihant Capital — Analyst

Hey, thank you for taking my question. Just a couple of things I wanted to understand sir, so in your opening remarks you mentioned that you’re moving towards more value-added products and premium products. Just wanted to understand if this is — there is anything apart from stainless pipes — stainless pipes and the second one sir, is that you mentioned that we are substituting import into the domestic sector. So could you just give a bit more highlight on that? We’ve bought product exactly as we talking about [indecipherable]. Just these two questions.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Sure, so let’s look at the value-add. We will go segment-wise. If you see in pellets we are beginning to produce pellets which are high-grade — higher-grade in FE. So we can go up to much higher than 65. If a customer wants obviously, we will charge some premium on that. Plus, now if you look at the large-dia pipes. We are moving towards all kinds of inside, outside coating which includes PU, FBE, and others. We do bends. We will start doing connectors, once we have the JV up and running because we also have a strategic alliance in the — from OSI in the joint-venture. So large dia improvement in quoting. Improvement in the bends, improvement in connectors, and those related products. In DI, we already have upgraded ourselves to go up to 1,200.

Fittings, now most of their fittings we are doing it ourselves. We have developed double chamber pipe in DI and we continue to look at a few other products which will give us more realization. In the seamless and stainless, yes entry into seamless — seamless and stainless value-added products, for example in alloy steel moving to 13 Chrome higher grades, which are the CRA grades. Entering the T series, the Q Series, and the P Series. In stainless steel, but for the now base grades, which were the 304 and 316, we have already started moving towards where we have tested duplex, super duplex. We would even be now wanting to enter into and we have started practicing and preparing for the [indecipherable]. Already, we have made some inroads into some of the major sectors of businesses like defense, nuclear power, et cetera, which we believe will open up. So at this point of time, we are in a trial phase, but we believe this would open up a new market for us.

In seamless the smaller diameter higher grade instrumentation tubes. It is something that again, we are beginning to try. So these are some of the — and finally, as I’ve said the Hunting Jindal joint-venture, which would create a center of excellence of its kind in this part of the world. So that would have a complete range of all premium connections including connector connections. From the smallest range, which is 7/8[phonetic] going right up to 36 inch. So there is a plenty of coordinated well-thought-out effort on each of the divisions and each of the businesses where we believe that this will open up all different business segments. And it would help us stand out from the others who are doing more of the — what will be called the commodity or the run off mill margins.

Miraj Shah — Arihant Capital — Analyst

Understood. Thank you. And highlight on the other point on substitution of both.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Okay, both of these that now we are doing, for example, if we start doing those connectors which is those OSI would be an import substitute, the 13 Chrome. And those segments are import substitute, so with heavy weight [indecipherable]. Some of those are, again, these are things which used to get imported. Now, it would not be required to be imported, because it will all come under Atmanirbhar scheme, a lot of instrumentation tube, et cetera, that we will develop, we would be the first one or we would be among the few who would be doing it in India.

Miraj Shah — Arihant Capital — Analyst

Understood. Thanks sir. Ask one last question, what [technical issue]

Operator

Excuse me Mr. Miraj we are not able to hear you clearly. Could you repeat your question?

Miraj Shah — Arihant Capital — Analyst

Am I audible now?

Operator

Yes, please proceed.

Miraj Shah — Arihant Capital — Analyst

[Technical issues] in seamless pipes.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

I can’t hear. Moderator, would you please if you have heard it clearly, would you please?

Operator

No, sir. Mr. Miraj. One last time, could you repeat it?

Miraj Shah — Arihant Capital — Analyst

Yeah, will you be able to tell us the realization in seamless pipes, the realization that we are making per ton?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Again, a very difficult question to answer, because it’s a very wide range at the lowest rate in seamless you can go just above the raw-material and plus some INR10,00 to INR20,000 rupees. But in some grades, it can go up to twice. So seamless we have such a wide range of products that’s giving you any average NSR, our realization would be a recipe where I would be misleading you more than guiding you.

Miraj Shah — Arihant Capital — Analyst

Okay, okay, understood. Congratulations on the result and thank you for answering my questions.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hiten Boricha from Joindre Capital. Kindly proceed.

Hiten Boricha — Joindre Capital — Analyst

Hi sir, thank you for the opportunity, sir. Most of my questions have been answered. I have one or two questions, the first one is you mentioned our current order book is around $130 billion. So can you give a breakup of the order book, like in segment-wise, let’s say, DI pipes[phonetic], single end pipes et-cetera?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

In fact, we have circulated a note in which that entire breakup of segment wise order book as well as domestic and export has all been provided. So what I would request you is just refer to that note that had been circulated.

Hiten Boricha — Joindre Capital — Analyst

Okay sir. I think I’m not in your mailing list, but that’s okay. I will check that with the IR.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

No, no. If you are not on the mailing list then, please make sure that you contact Mr. Rajeev Goyal get onto a regular mailing list. Mr. Rajeev Goyal would be supporting you and handholding you through all your process.

Hiten Boricha — Joindre Capital — Analyst

Sure, sure, sure, sure, okay. And sir, just can you give some color on how things are our pipeline, we are planning a very good healthy pipeline, so which particular sector where you are seeing any particular sector like DI pipes or anything where you can throw some more color where we are seeing a healthy growth.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

All-around. I would say, look at the large dia, look at DI. Pellets are strong because steel continues to do well, stainless and seamless we are doing very, very well. So at this point of time in fact, all four segments of Jindal Saw is seeing some very good and healthy I would say, order book and future ahead for the next few quarters the kind of visibility that we have.

Hiten Boricha — Joindre Capital — Analyst

Okay, thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dewang Sanghavi from ICICI Securities. Kindly proceed.

Dewang Sanghavi — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Thank you for the opportunity. What will be the volume that we are targeting for FY 2023 and 24 for each segment for DI and SS.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

So volume you are talking about year end. See the current trend we have given you, we have not and what I would suggest is take the quarter three extrapolate, because again giving you numbers in terms of guidance, forward-looking, it’s something that I’m not sure whether I would be doing the right thing.

Dewang Sanghavi — ICICI Securities — Analyst

No problem sir. That’s helpful.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Just take your number quarter 3 is a good indicator of the kind of growth that we have achieved and based on that, just projected for quarter-four. So you will get a fairly good idea of how the year is likely to come.

Dewang Sanghavi — ICICI Securities — Analyst

And how about FY24, there’ll be some growth on that?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

We do expect a reasonable growth over this year because there we expect all four quarters to do definitely better than the respective four quarters of this year. So A, after Q4 the Q1 there would — should be at a much higher plane for Q1 of this year, because here the Q1 was a little suppressed. So we do expect next year to be definitely better, than this year in a reasonable way or in a significant way.

Dewang Sanghavi — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Alright sir. My second question is regarding the Sathavahana, how quickly we can ramp-up the capacity of that once we are declared.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

The matter being sub-judice it would not be appropriate for me to talk more. All I can tell you is that all hearings have been completed. Order has been reserved. We are expecting a result any day and we expect a positive result in our favor. Once that happens you know that already, there was a lot of repair work et cetera. Maintenance work was going on. We should be in business very soon. And I have already indicated earlier that we expect it will add over two lakh metric tons to our capacities.

Dewang Sanghavi — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Alright sir. Thank you, it was helpful and all the best sir.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Aakanksha from brick work ratings India Private Limited. Kindly proceed.

Akanksha — Brickwork Ratings India Private Limited — Analyst

Good evening, everyone. I just wanted to continue with the previous question regarding the Sathavahana project like how much the company has invested in repairs and maintenance.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

No, the company has not invested anything in repair and maintenance so far. Unless the company gets the order in its favor, until I make an investment. [technical issue] different role, okay. That’s why I’m saying, so there is no [technical issue] first let us clear that. The company also had a role where it had won the contract for repair and maintenance, then probably what the overall spend would be — would be of the order of over INR200 crores, which is a receivable which whosoever the successful bidder would have to pay. So there is a spend that has happened in terms of maintenance, keeping the capacity ready. But in terms of investment, it is zero.

Akanksha — Brickwork Ratings India Private Limited — Analyst

Okay, okay and how much the company has invested in that particular?

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Madam again, you are asking the wrong question. Investment is zero as a repair and maintenance agent the company has spent and built approximately INR200 crores. The company will receive from succesful bidders.

Akanksha — Brickwork Ratings India Private Limited — Analyst

Yeah, yeah, okay. The company has spent over approx INR200 crores, yeah, okay sir.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

This is very much a part of the operational freight[phonetic] and it is very much a part of the overall the case and the judgment process.

Akanksha — Brickwork Ratings India Private Limited — Analyst

Okay. And when we are expecting the order sir.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Any day because in the judicial process you can — when the order gets reserved, then you know, the judge has a certain sequence, they release the order in a sequence, so we expect it now any day.

Akanksha — Brickwork Ratings India Private Limited — Analyst

Okay, thank you. Thank you sir. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor Company, kindly proceed.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

[Foreign Speech] Thank you for this opportunity sir, and congratulations on a very steady set up. Sir, firstly, [indecipherable] could explain us this other income impact what resulted in this conversion and does it because an actual tax outgo or that is also a book entry.

Narendra Mantri — Chief Financial Officer

Okay, Saket, Mr. Mantri here who is the CFO also. I requested him to explain this matter.

Unidentified Participant — — Analyst

Saket, I think our note on this matter is very clear. The impact has come because of the modification in the terms of the RPS issued by the subsidiary and held by Jindal Saw and its impact is deferred tax and that amount is also given in that note.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

So this money was receivable from JITF [multiple speakers]

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

It is not — Saket it is not receivable. It is — it will be received at some future date, when the RPS gets matured. So nothing is receivable. Nothing has been received. But the Indian accounting standards require whenever you have an instrument like this, whatever is the future potential realizations, you have to account for the pro-rata for that possible return. So you take it and spread it over a seven-year period. So this is — what I suggest is for the purpose of the kind of analysis that you people do for this results just ignore this, it will have zero impact either now or then on the business performance.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Sir then you were mentioning about the capex part and you mentioned that there is a scope of again, reviewing and coming back to the drawing board for the steel plant at Bhilwara.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Saket, let me just complete that because to rake your memory in a much more truncated form.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Okay, sir, can you can you spell more thought on it, what by means of truncated you are guiding us sir.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

All right. Earlier we were talking of a steel plant, which would have had a customer interface. So the product range would have been much wider. Now when I say a truncated steel plant, we are looking at backward integration, where we produce enough in terms of quantity, in terms of grades, to support our Nasik and Nagothane operations and facilities. So that in [indecipherable] the value-add would start from the iron-ore stage and would go in some cases, right up to premium thread cut, premium product, which is a JV from Hunting. So make sure that the entire value is captured within the company. We may look at that. At this point of time I repeat we are still thinking through the process and doing various analysis before we form above view, but it will be a much truncated form of steel plant, which will only cater to the Nasik and Nagothane raw-material inputs, which at this point of time we buy from outsid. We sell Pellet to outside. So can we take our pellets and make billets enough to support our Nasik plant, is something that is being considered.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Correct sir and can you give the color also, what is the annual requirement for the Nasik and Nagothane unit that will be supplemented by this steel plant.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Maybe at this point of time, we are looking at the yielded raw-material would be in the vicinity of maybe four lakhs plus, four plus done.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Got it sir and now coming to the cash generation part sir, you did mention that we are not going for any prepayment of that. And this 1,200 numbers will get reduced as per the sceduled payment so the incremental cash generation from the order book, which we have currently and the thoughts you have shared with us that going ahead things are looking better.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Help us bring back — help us control the working capital. If you see in this quarter, the turnover has gone up, but the working capital utilization has come down primarily because all the excess cash that we are generating. We are using to bring down my working capital cycle.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

So that means, in a nutshell, the finance cost, on as a percentage would definitely be lower.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Saket you just see the results [multiple speakers]

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Yes sir. I am just extrapolating that the cash emissions will support.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Yes, yes, yes, that trend will continue. It’s our conscious decision.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Right sir, and a small point on the selling of the non-core asset part. I think so we were contemplating some tail-off maybe we have also shortlisted asset of waste to wealth where are we in terms of that diverse research.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Saket, please let me just which non-core assets now is still in Jindal Saw.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Sir waste to wealth you spoke about some clients we had.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

It already has been demerged long back all the loan that Jindal Saw had given has been repaid. So, at this time when you see the balance sheet, you will find our a lot lighter and a cleaner balance sheet, where the investment portfolio, the loans and advances and all of those have been cleaned up to a very large extent. As far as that business is concerned, it has already been demerged and whatever was the loan from Jindal Saw has all been repaid which you will see during this year and at the end-of-the year when the balance sheet comes out.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Sir, in your presentation [multiple speakers]

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Businesses or companies as a part of Jindal Saw which are significant.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Right sir and if time permits can I.

Operator

Sorry to interrupt, sir. But due to paucity of time it should be the last question. Sorry sir we’ll have to close the call. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vikash Singh for closing comments.

Vikash Singh — Investor Relations

Thank you, everyone for joining us on today’s con call. I would like to thank Jindal Saw management for giving us the opportunity and handing over the dais to Neeraj sir for any any last closing comments. Over to you sir.

Neeraj Kumar — Group CEO and Whole-Time Director

Thank you all. I have to thank all our stakeholders, shareholders for staying with us and now performance is beginning to show-up. And I just hope that the market cap would reflect the value that we have been creating and we have been working so hard to create so I hope and I wish all of you well and definitely now we will be back after three months with a robust result for the 4th-quarter as well. Thank you very much, bye.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]

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