Note: This is a preliminary transcript and may contain inaccuracies. It will be updated with a final, fully-reviewed version soon.
Jain Resource Recycling Ltd (NSE: JAINREC) Q4 2026 Earnings Call dated May. 18, 2026
Corporate Participants:
Kamlesh Jain — Chairman & Managing Director
Mayank Pareek — Joint Managing Director
Unidentified Speaker
Analysts:
Abhishek Mehra — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Sumant Kumar — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Jane Resource Recycling Limited Q4 and FY26 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhishek Mehra from Dam Capital. Thank you. And over to you.
Abhishek Mehra — Analyst
Good evening everyone. Welcome to Jain Resource Recycling Limited Q4 in FY26 earnings conference call. From the management side we have with us Mr. Kamlesh Jain, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Mayan Parikh, Joint Managing Director, Mr. Heman Jain, Executive Director and CFO Mr. Sanchit Jain, Executive Director. Without any more time, I would hand it over to Mr. Kamle Jain for his opening remarks. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Kamlesh Jain — Chairman & Managing Director
Thank you Abhishek. Very good evening to everyone. Welcome to Jain resource exciting limited quarter four and FY26 earning conference call. I’m Tamil Jain, Chairman and Managing Director of the Company. Joining me today are Mr. Mayank Parikh, Joint MD Mr. Sanchit Jain, ED and Head Operation Mr. Heman Jain, ED and CFO along with other senior members of our team and our investor relation advisors sga. Thank you for taking the time to join us and for your continued interest in Jane Resources. It FY26 has been a landmark year for the company as we delivered our highest ever annual performance while executing multiple strategic growth initiatives across our recycling and value added metal ecosystem.
Despite geopolitical uncertainties, volatile commodity markets and tempering global logistic disruption, we remain focused on disciplined execution, operational opportunity and long term value creation. FY26 we delivered strong year on year growth across like key financial parameters. Revenue grown by 48%, beta increased by 53% and EBITDA margin improved to 5.9%. Profit after tax grew by 56% with PAT margin expanding to 3.6%. This performance was supported by healthy volume growth and disciplined hedging practices, improved operating leverage and better realization across our key business segments.
Our strategy continues to be built around two clear pillars, Volume growth and profitability growth. While some other projects are focused on expanding scale and strengthening sourcing capabilities, other are aimed at improving product mix, enhancing value addition and delivering better margins over the long term. Copper remains the largest strategic focus area. During the year we made significant progress on our forward integration roadmap. Through Jane Green Technologies copper anode operations have already commenced while the copper cathode, wire rod and busbar projects are progressing steadily towards phase commissioning.
These projects are strategically important as they move us higher up in the value chain into value added products such as which are expected to improve realizations, reduce and strengthen our customer stiffness and enhance overall profitability. In addition, our Ahmedabad joint venture project with CNY groups marks an important steps towards strengthening our copper sourcing and recycling ecosystem. This facility will significantly improve our scrap processing capabilities, support long term volume growth in the copper business.
In the lead recycling, our focus remain on maximizing value extraction from battery scrap stream and strengthening raw material security. Following the successful scaling of tin recovery operation, we are now progressing towards antimoney extension capabilities which we believe can become another important profitability driver over the medium term through high value recovery from existing recycling stream. Internationally, our strategic investment in Kuwait continues to progress well and remain an important milestone in strengthening our presence in the Middle east recycling ecosystem.
This initiative will support supply chain integration, improve sourcing access and further diversify our global promoting network. From a sourcing perspective, we continue to maintain one of the strongest global procurement network in the industry. Resourcing capabilities across more than 120 countries and domestic sourcing is also improving steadily supported by India’s evolving recycling ecosystem, increasing formalization and EPR led policy initiatives. Our differentiated drain resource recycling is not only scale but also integrated multi metal recycling ecosystem.
Our capabilities across copper, lead, aluminum, plastic, tin and our specialty metals recovery create a strong operational synergies, better by product utilization and highly efficient zero waste eco recycling platform. Combined with recycling hedging mechanism, a global sourcing network and strong execution capabilities, this position us uniquely within non ferrous recycling industry. Going forward we remain confident about long term opportunity in the recycling sector. Globally the increasing focus on sustainability, circular economic practices, decarbonisation and supply side constraint in the mine metals continue to strengthen the structural outlook for recycling business.
India in particular is emerging as high competitive global recycling hub supported by favorable economics, strong processing capabilities in growth, domestic demand for non ferrous metal, multiple new vertical expected to commence operation over the coming quarters. We believe the company is entering its next phase of growth. Strong integration, improve product mix, enhance sourcing capabilities and increasing value addition across the business. With this I would like to hand over the call to Mr.
Mayank Parekh who will take you through the key business updates, project execution, risk and outlook. Mr. Mayank, over to you.
Mayank Pareek — Joint Managing Director
Thank you Kamdesh ji and good evening everyone. Let me take you through the key business Updates with project execution and outlook While our core recycling business continues to deliver volume growth supported by strong global sourcing capabilities, we are now entering the next phase of value creation through forward integration into higher margin copper products. Our copper value added product project under the Jan Green Technologies Unit 3 has now entered the commissioning phase and represents a major milestone in our journey towards becoming a fully integrated non ferrous recycling and value added metals platform.
I’m pleased to share that copper anode production has already commenced in March 2026 with an initial installed capacity of 800 metric tonnes per annum per month. The second furnace, with an additional 800 metric ton per month capacity, is currently in the advanced stage of installation and is expected to be commissioned during quarter one financial year 27, taking the total anode capacity to 1600 metric ton per month. On the copper cathode side, civil construction has fully completed and the machinery erection activities are progressing well.
13 imported machinery deliveries witnessed temporary delays due to the geopolitical situation relating to Iran shipping corridor. However, the project execution remains.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt. The line to the management has been disconnected. Please wait while we reconnect them. Sa. Sam sa. Sam. It. Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected. The call will begin shortly. Participants, please stay connected. The call will begin shortly. Thank you. Sa. Sam. Ladies and gentlemen, we have the lines of the management reconnected. Yes sir. Please proceed.
Kamlesh Jain — Chairman & Managing Director
Can you add sir, everybody is on Q.
Unidentified Participant
I am online now.
Operator
Yes, we have all the management connected with us.
Mayank Pareek — Joint Managing Director
Hi, am I audible?
Operator
Yes. Are you audible?
Mayank Pareek — Joint Managing Director
Yes sir. So, do I speak out again?
Operator
Oh yes sir.
Mayank Pareek — Joint Managing Director
So sorry for the inconvenience. The line got disconnected and I will speak out again to to take you through the key business updates with project execution and outflow. While our core recycling business continues to deliver volume growth supported by strong global sourcing capabilities, we are now entering the next phase of value creation through forward integration into higher margin copper products. Our copper value added products project under Jan Green Technologies Unit 3 has now entered the commissioning phase and represents a major milestone in our journey towards becoming a fully integrated non ferrous recycling and value added metals platform.
I’m pleased to share that copper anode production has already commenced in March 2026 with an initial installed capacity of 800 metric ton per month. The second furnace with an additional capacity of 800 metric ton per month is currently in advanced stage of installation and is expected to be commissioned during quarter one financial year 27 taking the total anode capacity to 1600 metric ton per month. On the copper cathode side, civil construction has completed and machinery erection activities are progressing well.
Certain imported machinery deliveries witnessed temporary delays due to the geopolitical situation relating to the Iran shipping corridor. However, the project execution remains on track and we expect phase one commissioning by quarter two financial year 27 and phase two commissioning by quarter three financial year 27 respectively. Once phase two is completed, cathode capacity will scale up to 1500 metric ton per month. The Copper Wire rod production Copper wire rod project is also progressing well.
Civil construction is nearing completion and machine reduction is scheduled to begin in June 2026. We expect commissioning by August 2026 with an installed capacity of 600 metric ton per month. Similarly, our copper busbar and profile segment is moving ahead as planned. Civil work is substantially complete. Machinery reduction is expected to commence in July 2026 and commissioning is targeted for September 2026 with a planned capacity of 1,500 metric ton per month. These projects are strategically important because they materially improve our product mix, deepen customer integration, reduce earning cyclicality and structurally enhance EBITDA per turn over the medium term.
As we had highlighted earlier, these are profitability driven expansions and are expected to support margin expansion for the overall business. Moving to our Ahmedabad joint venture under Gen CNY Circular solution, Private limited execution activities have accelerated meaningfully. The factory promises have been finalized on lease and project implementation is now underway in a ramp up model. Processing of electric motor scrap and cable scrap is expected to commence from September 2026 onwards. Installation of the planned machinery and equipment is targeted for completion by December 2026.
The project remains strategically significant for us as it distance our copper sourcing ecosystem and adds scale to our copper recycling operations. Once fully ramped up, the facility will significantly enhance our processing capabilities for high quality copper scrap streams. On the international front, the Kuvak battery recycling venture continues to progress operationally. Civil construction at the site has been completed and the ordered machinery is ready at the supplier’s facility. However, due to disruption in shipping routes arising from Iran related geopolitical situation, dispatches have been temporarily delayed.
The sub the supply remains ready for shipment with that 30 day notice once shipping routes are normalized. Despite this delay, we remain confident about the long term strategic importance of this project for strengthening raw material security in our lead recycling business. In our sustainability focused initiatives, we have also taken a strategic decision to establish a dedicated plastic recycling unit. Currently, both our copper and lead recycling facilities have in house plastic recycling capacities.
However, with rising processing volumes and the need for better operational efficiencies, we are now creating a specialized standalone plastic recycling plant. The company has finalized around 6 acres of land for proposed shift of plastic recycling operations from the existing copper and lead recycling plants. This dedicated plastic recycling unit is expected to streamline operations and help decongest both the copper and lead recycling facilities. The new unit is targeted to become operational by quarter three financial year 2027 and will entail an estimated capex of around 15 crore Indian rupees which will help us further strengthen our zero waste and circular economy model.
With this, I will now hand over to our CFO Mr. Heman Jain who will take you through detailed financial performance for quarter four and financial year 26 along with volume, margin and working capital trends. Over to you Hemant.
Kamlesh Jain — Chairman & Managing Director
Thank you Ma’ Am sir and good evening everyone. I’ll now take you through the financial performance for the financial year ended on 31st March 2026. So for the full year FY26 the company has delivered strong growth across all key financial parameters. Consolidated revenue from operations stood at approximately 9543 crores compared to around 6429 crores in FY25 representing a year on year growth of approximately 48%. Volume growth during this year stood at approximately 26.5% while the remaining growth was driven by value realization.
EBITDA for FY26 came in at approximately 559 crores compared to 365 crores in the corresponding period last year translating into a growth of approximately 53%. The EBITDA margins also improved to approximately 5.9% in FY26 as compared to 5.7% in FY25, supported by better operating leverage, improved product mix and stable operational execution. Profit after tax for FY26 stood at approximately 347 crores compared to 223 crores in the FY25 representing a year on year growth of around 56%. Render PAT margins improved to approximately 3.6% in FY26 compared to 3.5% in the previous year.
Unidentified Speaker
Now some highlights for the Q4 FY26 consolidated financial performance the consolidated revenue from the operation stood at approximately 3,105 crores compared to around 1,760 crores in Q4 of FY25
Kamlesh Jain — Chairman & Managing Director
Representing a year on year growth for approximately 76%. The EBITDA margin stood at around 3.5% during Q4 FY26. EBITDA per ton witnessed temporary compression primarily due to two external factors. Firstly, there was a decline in sale realization formulas as a percentage of at any copper prices which are largely an industry wide phenomena observed globally during the period of sharp increase in the price of the copper as LME prices surged customer across markets, higher absolute pricing levels leading to a temporary pressure on realization formulas across the value chain.
Secondly, the geopolitical disruptions arising from the Iran conflict impacted the global shipping routes and increasing logistics and fuel related costs during March 26. This resulted in elevated liner and port discharge charges along with higher fuel cost linked to global energy prices, thereby increasing our processing costs during the quarter. However, we would like to highlight that these are temporarily, largely temporary and external in nature. Entering Q1 FY27 shipping disruptions have eaten considerably, logistics cost has started normalizing and realization formulas are also witnessing gradual recalibration with stabilizing LME prices.
Accordingly, we remain confident that the Q4 margin compression was transient and not structural in nature. Coming to the business mix From a segment contribution perspective, copper and copper alloy products has contributed approximately 55% of the total revenue while lead and lead alloy ingots contributed 40% and the aluminium and aluminum related products has contributed approximately 5% of the revenue during FY26. With respect to geographical revenue mix, 62% of the revenue was generated from exports while 38% came from the domestic market during FY26.
Coming to the return ratios as at March 2026, the return on equity stood at approximately 30.4% while return on capital employed stood at approximately 25.3%. This healthy return ratios reflect our focus on capital efficiency Disciplined execution While scaling operations, we continue to remain focused on maintaining working capital efficiency despite the ongoing scale up in operations. Given the nature of recycling business, working capital requirements are structurally linked to raw material sourcing cycles, scrap inventory holding, export receivable timelines and as per our historical trend, working capital remain days remain well under control and we continue to closely monitor inventory receivables credit cycles to ensure comfortable liquidity while supporting future growth.
As of March 2026, inventory days stood at approximately 62 days, debtor days stood at around 18 days and the creditor days stood at approximately 14 days. Accordingly, the overall working capital cycle stored at around 66 days coming to IPO proceeds utilization during the year approx. Coming to the for the primary issue of around 500 crores, approximately 375 crores was utilized towards the payment of the debts while the balance amount was embarked for general corporate toppers including the IPO expenses.
Out of this, approximately 16.4 crores has already been utilized for IPO related expenses. To conclude, the Company remain focused on ensuring project execution stays within planned timelines and budgets while maintaining healthy leverage metrics. Thank you. Over to you, Abhishek.
Operator
Thank you sir. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two participants are requested to use handset while asking the question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Naman Parmal with Nivesha Investments. Please go ahead.
Questions and Answers:
Kamlesh Jain
Yeah. Hi sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. So just wanted your whole understanding on how is the whole realization you usually work for you. Like you specifically mentioned about the changes in the LME has typically impacted your realization. Your scrap sourcing realization earn would have been increased. That’s why there is an impact on the EBITDA person. But if you can explain a process how how it is currently going on and
Unidentified Speaker
In future there will be no such variation because the
Kamlesh Jain
Size of the copper and aluminum are quietly very volatile in the current situation.
Operator
And in future also there can be a very big movement. So how you are seeing this specific need.
Kamlesh Jain
So Naman, the point is that here we always have mechanism back to back work and the copper there is not been a long term contract. It’s always contracts are like 30 to 60 days delivery. So when we don’t have long term contracts the formula has in the previous years it generally varied from 0.25% to 0.5% maximum. Then on a three month average it is very only by 0.25% formula don’t move up and move down in the previous year. But this year copper was extraordinary valid and there’s a bullish trend in copper and the price went up to skyrocket from 10,000 to 14,000 because of that a 40% increase in copper the formula has impacted very big way.
So there was. So in the quarter three we had tailwind where the we have got benefited from the elevated buying and driven by existent demand from China. This resulting in formula LED margin compressions. And because of this there was a but in the quarter four there was a structural mismatch because this whatever the sales formula has gone up in quarter three has gone down little bit. And because of that the declining in the margin. So if you do if you average both the quarters it is getting normal.
But because of the quarter three and quarter four there’s a difference in formula pricing and because of Tailwind in quarter three the quarter four margin was got in the problem. There was also impact of geopolitical situation which eliminated the cost of oil, gas and chemical price compounded by var charges by shipping line and Iran conflict has led further fuel to the cost pressure which is not budgeted. But it has passed only the next quarter. So there was a sudden shock from the geopolitical situation.
And there is also a. Sometime there was a generally the when the enemy goes up the sale formula drop. And that was. And then we don’t hate the formula because of the like. Let we have one year or six month long term contract. The copper contract started. But we have changed the system now and we explained our bias. So the future we will be working on a long term hedging formula mechanism where the price of the formula which varies up and down won’t affect our sale price. This is the correction we have done for the future.
And we are sure that this volatility in the market when the copper like in every four, five years time one time the copper cycle boom and because of that boom cycle it is the price goes skyrocketing and it impact the same formula. So when after the correction the formula get dropped also. But in the forward guidance I’m sure that this can be maintained and the constant and study margin from the quarter next years this has been one time impact and I’m sure it will not get repeat because of the tailwind goes up or down.
Next question please.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay, understood. So now your hedging purpose will be very much shorter for the long term contracts, right? That’s the right understanding. Yes,
Kamlesh Jain
Yes, yes. Yeah.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. Secondly, on the volume side also. So if we Compare on from Q3 to Q4 there has been a more or less decline only in the oil division, copper, land and element. So it was due to the Middle east war only or it was. Yeah. Because of the geopolitical
Kamlesh Jain
War there is a supply of the raw material has been constrained and a lot of containers got stuck in Dubai port. So we have a lot of material stuck in UAE port. And this metal is not we are not able to see the material. And that is why the there was a problem in the raw material side. So the volume has been it is dropped which we have diverted now from the other ports. But the old material line still stuck in the Middle east port. And this will once the Homerud Strait will open, then only those metals will come.
But the future metals are getting diverted from other ports.
Unidentified Speaker
And lastly on the plastic recycling side, like you have mentioned, around 15 crore of cafe. So so it for civically virgin plastics and all that you will be recycling or it’s a byproduct for you?
Kamlesh Jain
No, it’s always a byproduct recycling. Whenever the virgin recycling, it’s always a virgin byproduct recycling what we are going to get from our factories and that will get recycled in our dedicated facilities for the plastic which we are doing inside the plant earlier but now we have bought and built up the sheds and we dedicated plastic recycling size.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay, thank you so much.
Unidentified Participant
Next question please. Abhishek.
Operator
Mr. Albangadia, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question.
Kamlesh Jain
Thank you for giving me a chance to ask this question sir. Just to follow up on the. On the previous question itself. So now given that there has been a slight change or a slight pressure from the customers to kind of accept a higher rate and you see that normalizing, what is it that we should take as a normal EBITDA
Mayank Pareek
Pattern in the corporate segment? Because we have now moved from a 55,000 number to a 42 and now this quarter we are at 14,000. So what is it that a normal number should look like?
Kamlesh Jain
So for forward guidance I’m sure about excluding the exceptional tailwind of quarter three FY26 and a conference of one time headwind in quarter four FY26 the management expects normalized beta to stabilize at approximately 32,000 to 30,000 on a steady state basis. The quarter four FY26 result is not considered representative of the business underlying earning capacity. So mutamoti I feel it will be 32000 rupees per ton for forward earnings.
Operator
Okay, 32,000 rupees on a fault and you’re saying Q3.42 that also had
Mayank Pareek
An element of. Element of. Yeah. Tell me a one time
Kamlesh Jain
Tailwind,
Mayank Pareek
The one time tail within Q3 26 and then there are one one time hit in Q4. So you expect the average to be 32. 30. 32000 is what you are saying right now sir.
Kamlesh Jain
Yes, yes. And the value added formula will be different. This is only for the existing business. Whatever the value addition the facility is going to come that beta will be separate from this.
Mayank Pareek
Okay, and in general what would you should we expect on the volume side? Let’s say lead this year was totally about 1.85 like tons and copper was about 54,000 tonnes. What should we expect there in terms of volume growth for 27 and 28? Let’s say 27.
Kamlesh Jain
So we already given the guidance earlier and Mr. Maink, can you just reply this question?
Mayank Pareek
Hello, Am I audible?
Kamlesh Jain
Yes sir, you are audible. Yes. So
Mayank Pareek
Could you just repeat your query please?
Kamlesh Jain
What is the volume growth that we are expecting in lead and copper? Sir, FY27 from the 54,000 ton and 1.85 lakh ton respectively.
Mayank Pareek
Lead and copper as we. As we see the trends coming in and if we, if we don’t let the international disturbances overpower, what are the trends? Regular growth in two digits is always expected.
Kamlesh Jain
Right sir. Okay. Thank you for answering those questions. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Suman Kumar from Modilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Sumant Kumar
Yeah, so my question is how much percentage of raw material we are getting from a state of foremost number one, if the raw material is stuck there, how. How we are going to do we go? Do we have a hedging policy? Do we have a. Are we going to hedge that material again if it is going to be delayed and how it is impact on our overall hedging cost and all.
Kamlesh Jain
The first question is that how much material are getting from hormones? You’re not getting any metals from hormones. The metal getting transshipment. So what happened that when we buy the material from the US and South American countries and some of the European countries, the transhipment of the major lines like MSC and monks, they take it UAE port which generally they do because of the refueling of the vessel and because of the sometime they have to transhipment the containers also most of them getting refueled.
Now these containers which are lying in the vessel is not able to unload and some kind of unload in the uipath is not able to clear. So as you know, home rule situation will be geopolitical and when we get clear we’ll be getting the material. And there can be some war charges also for this holding of the material. But we’ll negotiate with the line and we’ll get it deduced. But there are some metal stuck there. And regarding this metal called all hedge, we have no risk on the price movement of this material.
And all this metal is completely hedge and there is no risk for the price movement. And I feel that we are the constant touch of the line and lines are doing the best to I mean negotiate with the geopolitical situation. When it get improved, we’ll get the material.
Sumant Kumar
If it is going to be delayed, we have to hedge again, right?
Kamlesh Jain
No, no, no for three months and it get rolled over automatically if you don’t want to. We don’t Want to score off it get automatically rollover like how we do the mcx.
Sumant Kumar
How much raw material is stuck there of the total?
Kamlesh Jain
The value and figures. I can separately email to you total I don’t have right in mind percentage of the percentage of the total raw
Sumant Kumar
Material. Percentage of total raw material.
Kamlesh Jain
No percentage I can’t depend on that great percentage of raw material. That is some quantity got stuck. But I can give you all details by separate email. How much containers and what is the value of the material.
Sumant Kumar
And and for copper you are. You are saying for the 42 rupees EBITDA per kilogram and 32 rupees. So 32 rupees normally beta per kilogram we are assuming for copper or higher than that.
Kamlesh Jain
So we so you if you see the average of the year then it is coming to this extent only because what happens the the formula get volatile when the LME goes up and down. This year was exceptionally high for the copper for volatility because 40% copper went up by in four, five months and that has impacted the formula. Generally formula does not move by 0.25% to 0.3% generally it doesn’t move much up and down and it’s been in that range. But this year because of the price movement of the LME the impact of formula also and I don’t this is this like.
Like 5 year ones this kind of things come where the Copper moved by 40% up and down during the COVID time the copper has gone down by 30 40% and again up by 30 40%. That has been one of the volatile year after six years back when the COVID time was there. So but now we have changed the strategy also and it won’t impact. And what was the second question you asked?
Sumant Kumar
So the normalization normal EBITDA per kilogram for copper assuming normal case scenario. Now we’re giving
Kamlesh Jain
You guidance of around 32,000 to 33,000 per ton on on yearly average some quarter can show even 36, 37 some quarter can show even 30 to 32. So but we’ll try to control the the the gap and will not be volatile but on average of beta we assume that it will be 30 to 30,000 apart from the value added product which is separately coming from for cathodes and biodes and other products.
Sumant Kumar
So what formula you are sort. Can you disclose that what is the the formula you are talking about? Their volatility is more than 0.5% and it is going. It is impacting EBITDA. So can you talk on that
Kamlesh Jain
This is a little complicated for you someone if I can you can call me or separate email I can send it. How it works it’s complicated is the business dynamics which you need lot time to understand this. If I explain it will go a lot of time here. Why don’t we discuss it separately. But it is like on a moto mot. I can tell you like we buy on 80% of copper enemy cables and we sell around 98 to 99% of the enemy. So we gap up. We get a gap of around 19% in that gap. Sometimes the gap becomes 16%, sometimes gap has become 23%.
So the the gross gap get sometimes changed which we have to control it. Now that’s a motor modi for you. One detail. We will. Let’s speak separately.
Sumant Kumar
So what you said the LNG prices and what is the gap?
Kamlesh Jain
I said the the buying price and selling price. The difference gap sometime goes up and down because of the formula change. So anything like the value addition product on that copper content. So let’s say 1% formula change will impact 13 rupees beta per kilogram. You understand? 1% of the formula change will impact 13 rupees of EBITDA.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pratik Singh with IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Speaker
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just wanted to delve a bit deeper or just get a clarification on the volume growth mind. Sir said I think double digit volume growth in the past I think we used to talk about 20 to 25% kind of a volume growth. So when you say double digit, can we assume it’s higher than 20% or between 10 to 20%.
Mayank Pareek
So land lad land will be in the range of 10 to 15%. But copper because the recycling is increasing and the application is increasing and availability of scrap is increasing. Therefore copper could be even higher.
Unidentified Speaker
Understood. And what kind of economics can we expect from the copper value addition or copper downstream project? What kind of EBITDA margin addition or what kind of EBITDA per ton incrementally can we assume because of the copper downstream project?
Mayank Pareek
Copper downstream project has potential to further increase the ebitda margin from 2 to 4%. The copper value added products range from starting from anode to cathode to wire rod to the profiles. Now when we come to the profiles they are engineering products which had high. Although the development of business might be slightly slow. But those had good margins. So overall 2 to 4%.
Unidentified Speaker
Understood. And would it be possible? I mean on the on.
Mayank Pareek
On the copper that we produce there.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. Okay. And is it possible to quantify the impact of higher shipping, power and fuel costs in a bit of button for this quarter? Let’s say for copper versus the sales formula change. So these two buckets, if we put the drop in a bit, how much would it be from high energy prices and shipping disruptions? And how much would it be from the sales formula change? That’s a very ballpark. Percentage number also would be obtained.
Mayank Pareek
Hemant, would you. Would you take. Take up this question?
Kamlesh Jain
Yes. So with respect to the war situation, per ton got impacted for around 6,000 rupees per ton. And with respect to the higher LME and drop in formula it was nearing approx. 18,000 to 18,500 rupees per ton. So these two impacts were the large impacts which has got EBITDA per ton for the copper coming down to this level.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. And have we started to see a recovery or fall in this 600 rupees per ton number during the war in 1q?
Kamlesh Jain
Yes, that. That’s already there in the my speech now. The shipping line disruptions have eased considerably. So this number has not become zero, but it has considerably come down. And you will see that impact in the Q1 of FY27. So I’ll add it here. For the future shipments, we don’t have any problem. The shipments are coming now by passing the Middle east port. And all the shipments, there’s no future stuck. Whatever they stuck in the past is the problem. But now zero problem. All the countries are coming by passing the midlies booked.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. And just one last question. Is there any option or are there any recyclers in Middle east to whom we can sell the stuck material to? Or it’s just not possible at all?
Kamlesh Jain
It’s not possible because these containers are in the vessel. It is not got it unloaded. The vessels are parked in the sea, high seas. So this vessel has not been able to unload. And not able to move. And not able to. But also so
Mayank Pareek
Middle east does not have enough recycling capacities too. Now these will. This will move because this is a global problem. I mean this is not a problem just for us, for the shipping line, for the vessel owners, for the governments, for the port authorities, for everybody. This is a problem. So they will move.
Unidentified Speaker
Understood. Thanks and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Alicia Mahala with Trust Mutual funds. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi sir, what is the current capacity utilization in legend?
Kamlesh Jain
Can you take this
Mayank Pareek
Current capacity utilization on copper? What did you ask
Unidentified Participant
What is the current capacity utilization in copper and in lead?
Mayank Pareek
Your voice is echoing and capacity. What did you say? Capacity.
Unidentified Participant
What is the capacity utilization in copper and England?
Mayank Pareek
Copper and lead?
Unidentified Participant
Yes
Mayank Pareek
Lad is lead has practically peaked and right now we are working on. So lad we have hemans would be having exact number but it is somewhere on 1 lakh 85000 tons. Somewhere around and it is almost around that. Maybe more than 95%. Is it correct Hemant? 95%? Something like that?
Kamlesh Jain
Yes. If you want I’ll give you the numbers itself. So the copper presently we are utilizing around 65% of the total installed capacity and lead we are Almost close to 97,200 and aluminum is around 35% of the installed capacity. These are the numbers for the capacity utilization for the full financial year.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, this is helpful. Copper, can we go beyond 65%
Mayank Pareek
Copper? Of course we can go beyond 65%. We will go beyond 65% because we have additional capacities and the copper volumes will be growing. So these capacities will be utilized over next two, three years.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, you’re looking at doing next year because we spoke about the cathode anode plant and RV expanding capacity in lead. So what is the total capex we’re looking at doing in 27?
Mayank Pareek
So Raymond, you have the figure? Can you, can you take it up?
Kamlesh Jain
Yes. So we have already given in our investors presentation. So the copper cathode first phase is already over. Coming to antimoney project it will be to the tune of around 20 crores. For the plastic recycling plant which we are putting a setup will be around 15 and our project is estimated to be a number of around 30 crores and then the COVID one with another 30 crores. So this all put together plus the phase two of the copper value added project will be around 115 to 120 crores.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. So about 250 crores is what we’ll be doing next year. Yes, understood. And you’ve been mentioning on the call that you’re expecting that through one EBITA per ton in copper to improve. But freight rates are still high and copper prices are also going higher only. So are we confident that the number will be better sequentially or will we see some pressure before it gets better?
Mayank Pareek
You mean the ebitda?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, the EBITDA for ton and copper.
Mayank Pareek
Yes. You mean because the quarter four EBITDA is subdued owing to the international factors. So you want to know whether it is going to go up
Unidentified Participant
Because those factors are continuing as on April and May also freight rates are higher and the copper prices have also not softened. So will be. Will the pressure not continue in Q1 also?
Kamlesh Jain
So it is. It is. It is not the way you think. Copper EBITDA is getting settled because as I told you earlier, there was a one uncottled treat of the huge tailwind. Because the people in China were expecting that the limit will go up. So they’re buying keep on buying metric higher formula. But once their enemy reached a level and their appetite also got over, they dropped the formula. So because of one time buying push from China, the formula gone up in stable market. This does not move up and down much.
But the now the LME settle down. So the formula also got settled down in one of the quarter. This will come like a peak movement of the LME. Again example of Kobe time and after 5 years this. This is the super cycle there this formula got impacted. So this is one in the case where happened in once in five years. So this. This quarter was a. This quarter three was like this and quarter two versus somewhat quarter two and Goddard in the middle when Daling Moon started founder got impacted.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Deepak Ajwera from IE IG India. Please go ahead. Deepak, your line has been unmuted. Please go ahead with your question.
Unidentified Participant
So yeah, thank you for the opportunity. I wanted to ask that formula piece, what is that? How does that work? How does it impact us? Who determines the same?
Kamlesh Jain
This has been already explained to me by earlier question to where when I explained how the formula works. I give an example also how formula works, how this goes up and down. And I also explained that how the management will do in the future. And if you have more questions, definitely we can do after the call because it will repeat some same question. But for the information the formula what you ask is who decide this? This is the market determined and not by balance buyer and seller. What are the market determined?
That buying formula and selling formula. It works on that. So in the like example I can give you one like why we buy the raw material in one quarter because it’s copper cycle. It’s five four to five month cycle. So when you buy the material in one quarter, the shippers ship the metal after 45 days and take another 45 to 60 days to complete the material and 30 days for processing and then ship to China under 30 days. So it takes over five to six month to rotate the formula. So one quarter of formula can impact another quarter in two quarter average, the value addition gets settled down.
So copper cycle is long compared to lead which is a short cycle of three months. And the formula got impacted only once in the blue moon which is like this time has happened when the copper enemies move aggressively in three months to 40%. Otherwise the formula is always stable. It doesn’t move the market as more than 0.25%. Formulas are not decided by buyer and sellers driven by market only based on demand supply enemy of the material. And this is not like Jane. If you see for example any oil refining company like example called gross refining margin and the Reliance industry example, we also get impacted because of the gross refining margin that goes up, down, goes down.
So basically that. So any oil companies also get same thing commodities. This is common. It moves up and down.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Secondly, our three, four new projects are getting live into this financial year. How should we expect the ramp up?
Kamlesh Jain
Your voice is not clear. Can you just use your
Operator
Handset?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So what I’m saying is our three, four projects are getting live this year. How should we expect the ramp up?
Kamlesh Jain
Yes. So as Mayank has already explained in his speech that about the all the projects update where the the Copper Valley project and then we have the Kuwait and then Ahmedabad and the it got it by two, three months. Might be because of the West Asia crisis and otherwise all on streamline, all on time. And we hope to complete in face manner in this current year. Somebody convinced that whatever the impact was delayed, it’s over now. Now to get over in this year we’ll be getting this.
Mayank Pareek
So I add here. So you are asking about the ramp up. So the thing is the anode furnaces will start within this quarter and one has started and the other will start. So then the cathode starts, then bus bar, bus bar starts and then finally the profiles start. But then as far as this project is concerned, even if we make anode and cell and even if we make cathode and cell, we would be creating additional volumes. So what I want to tell you is that we expect from the next quarter the volumes. Additional volumes will come in whether we sell anode or we sell cathode.
So the ramp up will be quite quick.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Sumant Kumar
And
Unidentified Participant
We are coming up with anti money
Sumant Kumar
Project
Unidentified Participant
And we are coming up with new one. Anti money project. What is that? And what should we expect from that?
Mayank Pareek
Antimony is a critical metal present in the leg which we use in the batteries, lead acid batteries. And if you are able to separate antimony from the lead, then the free antimony has better value realization so this project is all about separating antimony from the lead present in the lead acid battery.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Deepak. I would request to please come back in the queue for further questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we request you to limit your questions to one per participant. The next question comes from the line of Akhilesh Kumar from MK Global. Please go ahead.
Kamlesh Jain
Yeah, thank you for journey. Sir, my question is on the copper front. So after all of this value addition, how much of the EBITDA per kg incremental? EBITDA per kg we estimate like in a normal scenario we have given the guidance of 30 to 32 rupees per kilogram. So once all of these projects are commissioned, how much value addition do we see that to happen in per kg terms?
Mayank Pareek
It is potential. So all these because it is a series of products starting from anode and then cathode and birod and finally bus bar. So depending upon to what state we are reaching and which, which particular product we are actually able to sell more in the market, it will be between an additional per kg at the present price rate. I mean at the present prices of copper would be between 25 and 45 rupees per kilogram.
Kamlesh Jain
So you are saying 32 plus 25. So somewhere on 56, 57 rupees per kilogram will be able to do EBITDA in EBITDA.
Mayank Pareek
Yeah.
Kamlesh Jain
Okay.
Mayank Pareek
Or more conservatively we can say 20 to 45 rupees per kilogram.
Kamlesh Jain
20 to 45. Okay. Okay. So 45 k k rupees per kilogram is the upper limit what we can do.
Mayank Pareek
Yeah.
Kamlesh Jain
Okay. Okay. And my second question is on the again volume growth front. So our lead guidance has been given at 10 to 15% in copper. How much incremental volume do we see for FY27 and then for FY28?
Mayank Pareek
So on the growth, I’d given my comment on this and I mean volumes depend upon many things. But copper growth will be good double digit figure. It has potential to go beyond 15%.
Kamlesh Jain
Okay. Beyond 15%. Okay. And lastly sir, on this
Operator
I would request you to come back in the queue for further questions. The next question comes from the line of Chirag Kasiwala, New Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Kamlesh Jain
Yeah, hi. So just wanted to understand regarding your operating cash flow. So if you look at, you know, this quarter this year it has gone to minor negative 600 crores. So this looks to be mostly, you know, I can buy a high increase in receivables and inventory. So going forward, what is the part for the operating cash flow, can it become again positive? How will the receivables be adjusted in inventories as well? Yeah. So Chirag, you should see that within this last three, four months we have been discussing about the increase in the copper prices and the volume which has grown.
You can see the overall growth of around 26% in the volume. We didn’t avail any of the fresh bank borrowings within last three to four months. So all this requirement with respect to the working capital for stock and other things has increased because of the increase in the prices and the volume. So whatever the internal accruals, what we have earned during this period has been again deployed back for this current assets and the liabilities. Now coming to your second question with respect to when it will become a positive.
Yes. In a longer term we expect that we have already reduced the stock from comparison from Q3 to Q4. We have reduced the stock content and which will be our further policy to reduce the stock so that the working capital cycle which is around presently 66 days, which should come down further below 60. So once that is achieved, hopefully we can see some positive working capital coming positive into the CFS. From the Q2 onwards,
Unidentified Speaker
My worries more towards the receivables. So it looks like you are able to sell but you’re not able to generate cash out of it.
Kamlesh Jain
So in receivables, the major change in this time cash flow is because of the NAFRA requirement by the institute and the company. Right. So whatever the receivables, what we have discounted with the banks or with any of the financial institutions, they have asked us to show the separately previously it was like a net of figure which we show to which which was present in the financial. So that is basically an accounting system which nafra, as per the requirements of Nafra we have. We need to show that presently separately.
Otherwise the cash flows are healthy. And you can see the volume also has increased because of that. The number of days receivable, you can see that 15 to 18 days. It is well managed in the Q3 and Q4. So that is the only issue where you are seeing that the receivable part is increasing.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Aditi at I Wealth. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Oh
Unidentified Speaker
Yes,
Operator
Please go ahead.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. Hi sir, just wanted to ask about the cost structure. Like this quarter sequentially have come down a lot. What would be the reason for this one?
Operator
Can you take this? I can take
Mayank Pareek
This. But you have to repeat your question because you are not good Audible.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Now you can. Can you hear me sir?
Mayank Pareek
Yeah. What was your question?
Unidentified Participant
My question was that the other cost which we had this quarter sequentially they’ve come down a lot. So what would be the reason for this?
Mayank Pareek
The other cost came down a lot in. Okay, this better Himan you take up other costume in. In the cost in the. In the head. Other cost. The cost has come down. Yes. The other. Other
Unidentified Participant
Manufacturing cost. Yes. It was 52 crore last. Last. Last year same March 25 and that came down to 23.88. And even if we take the December 25 quarter it was 70 kar. So wanted to know like why has this come down.
Kamlesh Jain
You are referring from the other cost which schedule. Can you just
Unidentified Participant
The PN other expenses. Yeah.
Kamlesh Jain
Okay. It is presently at 238 crores for quarter ended on. Sorry. 23 crores for the quarter ended on March 26th. Okay. You mean to say last year it was 70.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. In the December quarter 70. And in the March 25th quarter it was 52. So wanted to know why. Why was such a steep decline. Okay. Just. Just open that sheet.
Mayank Pareek
Or if you want to have a look at the figure and then respond. Maybe we take up other question then you respond to.
Operator
You can respond later. You want to do now.
Kamlesh Jain
Yeah, we can take them. So basically in this there was one another change which we have made into this other extents was maintaining this fair value of heads. So this wasn’t positive M2M and because of that the other expenses come down during this financial year. We can give a breakup. It’s what is the requires. We can help her with a separate email with the breakup of this other expenses.
Unidentified Participant
Okay sir, I’ll need you regarding this.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question for today. I now hand the conference call over to Kamila Sen for closing comments.
Kamlesh Jain
Thank you for the time and I thank everyone who joined this call over to you Vic.
Operator
Thank you on behalf of DAM Capital. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.