Jain Irrigation Systems Ltd (NSE: JISLJALEQS) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 14, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Anil Jain — Cheif Excutive Officer
Bipeen Valame — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Vinay Chaudhary — Analyst
Prafull Rai — Analyst
Dhwani Chanda — Analyst
Praneet — Analyst
Deepak Poddar — Analyst
Pawan Yadav — Analyst
Ravi Vidaga — Analyst
Farak Khare — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4FY25 earnings conference call of Jane Irrigation Systems Ltd. Hosted by Dr. Shoksi Finserv Pvt. Ltd. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhavya Sharma. Thank you. And over to you.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you. Good evening everyone and welcome to Jain Irrigation Systems Limited earnings call to discuss the Q4 and FY25 results. Today we have on call Mr. Anil Jain, CEO and Managing Director and Mr. Vipin Vallame, Chief Financial Officer. We must remind you that the discussion on today’s call may include certain forward looking statements that may involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors and must therefore be reviewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. Future results, performance or achievements may differ significantly from what is expressed and implied by such forward looking statements.
Please note the results and presentations are available on the Exchange and our company’s website. I now request Mr. Anil Jain to take us through the company’s business outlook and financial highlights subsequent to which we will open the floor for Q and A. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Anil Jain — Cheif Excutive Officer
Welcome and good evening to all the participants and listeners on this company’s call. We really appreciate you spending time and listening to us. So we have announced the results earlier today post our board meeting for the Q4FY25 and for annual year 25. So overall we are quite, I think satisfied with the current quarter’s results where on console basis our revenue is up almost 1.3% to approximately 1750 crores and EBITDA is up by 3% to add about 225 crores. Within this revenue growth what is important is that one of our higher earning business which is high tech division which comprises of micro irrigation as well as tissue culture has in fact grown 16.8% which is quite positive.
And even agro processing grew by 14.6%. So both these businesses have shown, I would say significant traction on the positive mode which started in the third quarter and has continued in the fourth quarter as well. Overall you know EBITDA in high tech business in fact grew approximately to 18.7% versus 13.4% in the same period last year. So that shows that we could manage positive growth higher double digit as well as still improve the margin. So that business seems to be on track. And you know, going forward even 26 looks good. If I look at the whole quarter on a console basis, we have been able to reduce the debt by 104 crores which is quite good.
And cash flow post, you know, so from operations post working capital change at 283 crores would mean that we have been able to convert EBITDA of 225 by 127% to arrive at 283 crores. So while revenue growth was just at 1.3%, EBITDA was even better. But cash flow has been significantly better. And overall profit for the current quarter at 28 crore is far better than the losses we had in the same period last year. So overall the results are quite good in terms of revenue, EBITDA as well as profitability and the fact that we have been able to reduce the debt and improve quality of earning, I think that is an important message for this quarter.
The plastic processing was one business which was still lower compared to the earlier year period. And that primarily was in the earlier year period. We had significant sales related to Jal Jeevan Mission in terms of piping orders coming from the government which was nonexistent this year. So whatever sales we have are related to retail sales this year. And another factor for lower revenue on plastic pricing also has been the softening resin PVC resin prices. I think for the whole year basis almost 6 to 7% reduction in revenue on piping is due to reduction in the raw material prices.
But still we did lose about 20% of the volume on the piping due to lack of Jaljeevan Mission orders. Plus some additional lower sales in retail as well where we sell to the farmers where dealers. Due to two elections in the current year, especially one in Maharashtra and some other climate issues. But overall we think that is behind us. We are seeing in the current new fiscal year already good demand on piping. So I think that should overall do better going forward. If I look at stand alone business, I think the hitech business again was quite positive, grew quite well.
EBITDA in high tech business also grew from 12.7% to 15.6%. EBITDA for standalone business out of India which is drip pipe and tissue culture grew from 135 crore to 160 crores even though overall revenues were lower by 4% at about 1000 crores. But EBITDA increased substantially packed as about 28 crores versus last year’s 25 crores. And we could generate positive cash flow post working average changes of 132 crores and with about 47 crore debt reduction. So another positive part from India business has been through the not only this quarter but through the year substantially better I would say export performance.
Our export in the current quarter grew by 43% to 177 crore from earlier 123 crores. When you know this is for the Q4. But when we look at overall annual revenue and annual business we have, you know, achieved close to 5,800 crores of revenue which is approximately 6% lower than the same period last year, FY24 to FY25 and EBITDA at about 717 crores which is about 9% lower than the last year. That’s the annual console because of especially very weak first two quarters. These are the results. While Q3 and Q4 has been, you know, better performance, the higher level reduction in the EBITDA has come partly from agroprocessing business.
Even though high tech business has maintained higher level margin pat for the whole year is at about 26 crores. And you know, from the EBITDA of 717 crores we have been able to, you know, generate good amount of positive cash flow post operation post working capital changes at almost 842 crore. So that’s a substantial improvement in cash flow generation from the business for the whole year. And because of this substantial improvement in cash flow generation for the whole year, we have been able to reduce debt by 257 crores. And that means now our debt stands close to 3500 crores.
So in retrospect when you look at the whole year, the numbers on revenue and EBITDA are lower than the last year. But considering all what we have gone through, Q4 has pulled out quite nicely. And for the overall year cash flow has been substantially positive. We have been able to reduce the date, honor all the obligations in time. And our high tech business is now back on track in terms of revenue growth as well as profitability. Agro processing also has maintained the revenue growth even though due to specific challenges related to seasonality, availability of mango, short season, it has impacted our margins.
But we have been able to maintain the revenue growth in that business for the whole year also. So I think that is summary of the year which has passed by us. What’s more important is what we are looking to do going forward in the current year. So as things stand, we think quite optimistic and positive for FY26. We think we have an opportunity to achieve, you know, substantial higher level revenue growth. And as we achieve that higher revenue growth, we expect even better EBITDA than the revenue growth. So if revenue growth is, let’s say comes in high teens, you know, closer to 18% plus EBITDA should grow to 23, 24% because you know, the factor related to fixed cost absorption.
We want to continue to maintain deleveraging going forward in FY26 as well. So as we could reduce the debt this year by 257 crores, I think our target next year would be to reduce the debt north of 400 crores. Whether it is 400, 450 or 500, that depends on so many factors. But minimum level of reduction we would be achieving would be 400 crores next year. So we are expecting high teens revenue growth overall on consolidated across all businesses. EBITDA higher level than revenue and reduction in the debt by at least 4 billion rupees or 400 crores is what we are anticipating.
Company wants to maintain the change in the business model as we are slowly reducing our reliance on the government projects every year. As we complete the old projects, overall revenue of government is coming down. So in fact if you look at FY25, 15% reduction is primarily linked to reduction in the total government business. We did almost by the tune of 150 crores and 350 crore was the reduction into the JJM business. So that’s approximately 500 crore reduction we have added because of the two specific situations. And of course there was no growth in the earlier quarter into our normal retail business, which as I’ve explained is now coming back as we speak.
And fourth quarter for hitech has already been positive. So going forward we are optimistic and confident for better revenue growth, better EBITDA growth, significant reduction in the debt, as well as continued focus on generating free cash flow from operations. That is the single most focus we have. But at the same time in terms of retail business, on high tech, the micro irrigation, which is where we are pioneers, I think post or restructuring, post Covid, all of that. I think we have got the grip back on the retail market and I think as we are developing more dealers, as we are doing more states, all of that, I think that should continue to pay good dividends going forward for both drip as well as pipe business.
The tissue culture business, again it goes through cycles. So we are getting into a positive cycle into tissue culture business. And so next two years, you know, we should expect 20 to 30% growth in the amount of banana plants or pomegranate plants which we sell to farmers. So I think that would continue to do well. And food processing did well in terms of growth. And with good monsoon and expected, you know, reasonable quality for mango and onion business this year margin should come back which last year it took a hit, they should come back now with better season in terms of availability of the quantities as well as our ability to process at reasonable price.
I think both are there in the current year. So FY26 should be better on the food in terms of the margins as well. So I think these are the developments overall. As I said, it has been a challenging year but we have stayed the course. We have stayed focused on deleveraging, focused on free cash flow generation. And in terms of revenue growth and the grip with the dealers in the marketplace, I think especially in high tech business, already last two quarters we have posted in India growth of more than 15, 16%. So that is quite heartening and we expect that to continue in the current year.
Last year also beyond the two reasons of lack of JJM business and reduction in the project business, another thing was we let some of the micro education business go because of the very long working cable cycle in some of the states where you don’t get paid for at least a year or more and almost to the tune of 200 crore we decided not to do so. You know, so these were the reasons and we are seeing some of these states at least out of four two states have improved their payments now just over last one quarter.
So we could be doing a little bit more business there as well in the current year. So that was another reason last year for less revenue. So this is where we are and we are looking forward to, you know, much better FY26 in every possible way. And now I would be happy to take your questions. Thank you again. Thank you for listening.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and. Two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We will take our first question from the line of Ankit Bansal from Kusum Investment. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello sir.
Anil Jain
Yeah, hello. Yes. Yes sir.
Unidentified Participant
My question is sir, what is the progress in the product you that of issue culture of coffee for which you sign MoU with Indian Coffee Board. What is the progress in that?
Anil Jain
I think we have signed the initial MoU with them and we have done already. We have made trial supplies initial for their pilot projects. And one pilot project which has been going on there for almost a year has shown good results. So we anticipate larger orders. But because this is the agriculture cycle, I think those will come maybe towards November, December and onwards. But while you ask this question about coffee for a coming year, right where we are, as I said, tissue budget business could grow almost close to 30%. Major revenue growth will still come from three current large product portfolio we have.
That is banana, pomegranate and potato. Things like coffee, papaya, orange or mango seedlings or tissue culture, those would still remain a minority for the next one year. And some of these other products will actually pick up, you know, between 27, 28 scenarios. But next year major, you know, revenue would still come from these three which I mentioned.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Obviously like the government is also focusing on. Like we have heard about the pomegranate first consignment to Australia also. Yes.
Anil Jain
So these value added products. Right. And I mentioned banana and pomograna and both. And you talked about consignment to, you know, to Australia the same way, you know, over last, if you really thought, eight to 10 years ago almost there was no export of banana of finished goods, right? Banana. And this year I think government has announced some number that close to 4,000 crore exports has been achieved out of banana. And most of those bananas which farmers have grown for exports have come from the tissue culture plants which we have supplied as a company. So as banana exports grow for fresh banana, that creates more demand for our tissue culture plants.
Same way with pomegranate. But pomegranate is also getting sold more domestically apart from exports. So we have seen earlier pomegranate was more from Maharashtra and nearby states. But over last two years, Rajasthan has come out to be a new star in pomegranate business. There are large amount of pomegranate being grown in Rajasthan now also. So there are these areas of you can call excellence like Jalgaon and Solapur are very big in banana that way certain districts in Rajasthan are becoming very good for pomegranate. So our company is working to provide the complete ecosystem solution to the farmers to excel in these crops.
Right? And then they can sell at good price in India as well as overseas. And when these farmers buy tissue culture plants, then they could buy also drip irrigation from us. So that’s what we are working on.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you. Okay, so the second question sir. Any progress in debt from government Balances like payment, you have delay in payment, any anything has come from government in this quarter or coming quarter.
Anil Jain
This year we have received 200 crores from the government from you know various receivables coming here. We are expecting that figure to go to close to almost because we have completed some of the project recently. So we are expecting this year the figure could be somewhere 450 to 500 crore should come from the government.
Unidentified Participant
What is the total amount of receivables from government? Total.
Anil Jain
So there are two types of receivables. One is related to EPC projects and I think those are approximately around 750 to 800 crores. And then there are drip irrigation related business. You know where what we call MIP where the state governments provide orders on behalf of the farmers. That amount is closer to 375 crores. But that is annual, right. That keeps rotating the real receivables which will bring down our debt. And you know I discussed earlier that we expect debt to go down by 400 crore plus is based on the EPC project, business receivables to come down.
So now that these projects have been completed we expect half of this amount of as I said 750, 800 crores to come. More than half this year and the remainder next year.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. There are any chances of listing your subsidiary Gan Farm Tool?
Anil Jain
I think those discussions are probability and in consultation with the private equity partner we have, I think we will be taking some decision in that regard through the board of that company. So as of now no decision has been taken. But we have had discussions and I think based on some of those discussions and based on the market scenario a possible decision could be taken.
operator
Join back the queue please. As we have other participants waiting for their turn.
Unidentified Participant
At what time?
operator
Kindly join the back.
Anil Jain
I don’t want to be very specific as things stand because that board needs to make that decision. We need to get our partner equity investor also who is more than around 20%. After that only we can announce timing.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. In order to ensure that the management is able to answer queries from all participants, kindly restrict your questions to two at a time. You may join back the queue for follow up questions. We’ll take our next question from the line of Vinay Choudhary from Invexa Capital. Please go ahead.
Vinay Chaudhary
Hello. Hi. So just. Just to continue on the previous participant question. This stuck receivable from government which was about 800 to 850. So 200 crores. What we have received is from the regular course of business or from this the stock receivables.
Anil Jain
No good amount of that is stuck receivable. But as we are completing the project, right. This year we had also project project billing I think around 170 crores or so the new one. That’s why net basis you won’t see receivables have come down even though old money has come. And that is what it has helped us to reduce the debt by 250 crore this year.
Vinay Chaudhary
So this is all the ongoing projects but the. Right. Got it. And this 50 what we are expecting in the coming year. In the current years. These are from which states are we expecting?
Anil Jain
Primarily money flowing this year would come from three states. Karnataka, Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh.
Vinay Chaudhary
Okay. And lastly on the debt side you mentioned that we’ll be repaying 400 crores. So the NCD if we refer to the PPT what we have published. So about 855 crore in the NCD. And if we adjust to the fair value. So it has technically increased from 615 to 667 this year. So how should we look at this?
Anil Jain
So because it is the fair value scenario, right. As you go closer to the date that value goes up, right. Every year. And the full repayment of this is in 2728. But this year I think we would be. As I said, we are going to pay on net basis 400 crore plus debt. Right. So part of the debt reduction would be into long term debt, normal term loans and part would be reduction into NCDs. So as we repay those NCDS then at the end of the year you know there is that fair accounting value which will take place.
Vinay Chaudhary
So this 400 what we’ll receive.
operator
Join back the queue please. As we have other participants waiting for Their turn
Vinay Chaudhary
and was related to this. Okay, sure.
operator
Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker
Hello. Please go ahead.
operator
Yeah. We’ll take our next question from the line of Praful Rai from Arjao Partners. Please go ahead.
Prafull Rai
Yes sir. I have two questions. A. What is the net debt we are expecting by Iran given the cash flows we expect from the government.
Anil Jain
So the debt as of now you see at 3,500 crore net debt. So as I said 400 crore plus. Right. So somewhere between 3,000 to 3,100.
Prafull Rai
But you also spoke that the business is likely to see a high teens kind of a growth and ebitda this. That so will the. This is a pretty healthy number. Will this not require additional working capital for you to fund the growth?
Anil Jain
No, that should be generated internal accrual. So we are talking about, you know, whatever additional working capital we will need would be generated internal accrual. Right. So this is a net basis, right. After providing for growth, for providing for additional working capital, we believe we would be generating enough to on net basis to reduce the debt by so much. So actual, you know, cash positiveness would be more than this. Right. Part will go towards working capital, part will go towards capex. After that residual would go for reduction in the debt.
Prafull Rai
For this 700 crore of government EPC work which we are talking what is the kind of investment we have to do or sort of. It is all done to get the Money,.
Anil Jain
I think out of this 750 crores we need to spend for the, you know, 400 and odd crore which I talked about, which we should receive in the FY26, we need to spend only about maybe 20, 30 crores. Rest we already done like some of these projects are done, 95, 97% at that level. Some other projects for which we expect to receive the remainder project for which we expect to receive money in FY27 there I think we need to spend about maybe 60, 70 crores.
Prafull Rai
Okay, okay, okay. And then save your i18 kind of a number. If, if I may ask, what would be the key drivers of of this incremental growth? Because you this you’re talking of a major growth as well as a large EBIT expansion. What are the key contributors? If I have to jot down, okay, office, 15, 17% higher number. These would be the top three constituents in terms of contribution.
Anil Jain
Yeah. So we see definite higher growth on the tissue culture side. Let us say we see a growth on solar water pump side in terms of, you know, whatever numbers we have, orders in hand, etc. And additional growth in some of the states where states have started releasing the money faster in mis, for example. So those are the places we see we will recover some of the last on the pipe side. Right? Pipe. We have had a negative growth as you see from last year numbers. But that would just bring us back to 24 numbers that growth.
But real positive growth will come from mis tissue culture solar pump.
Prafull Rai
And we are talking of solar pump, that is Kusum.
Anil Jain
Yes. And only specific states. And another growth area for us is also exports. You know, last year also I think exports have grown almost 40%, 43% current year. We think we will still grow exports again 25, 30% that range.
Prafull Rai
That would be some Dehydrated vegetables and this and that
Anil Jain
water around the world. Sorry,
Prafull Rai
t=That would be in the form of dehydrated vegetables and all what we export is that what largely export is about export.
Anil Jain
I’m talking of pipes, irrigation systems, things like that.
Prafull Rai
Okay. Okay, thanks a lot. So I’m reiterating we are talking of high teens number please just one follow up on this and I’ll just close. We are just reiterating that we’ll have a higher team and around 2,3% higher EBITDA margin because of opportunity for FY26. Is that what the number plays? And up to 3,000 crore kind of net debt end of the year.
Anil Jain
Yes. Yes.
Prafull Rai
Okay, thanks a lot sir. Thanks.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question please press star n1 on your phone. We’ll take our next question from the line of Dhuani Chanda from Altis Financial Partners. Please go ahead.
Dhwani Chanda
I wanted to know if you’re looking. To. Buy out some five businesses.
operator
Advani, I’m sorry to interrupt. Can you use your handset mode please? The audio is not very clear.
Anil Jain
Yeah, we can’t really hear you.
Dhwani Chanda
Hello, Is the audio more clear now?
Anil Jain
A little better, yes, thank you.
Dhwani Chanda
Yeah, I was asking if you’re looking to expand your pipe business. The PVC pipe business.
Anil Jain
Yeah, we are definitely looking to grow our PVC pipe business. You know I talked about by selling in additionally into some of the existing states as well as selling more into newer states. So that is a definite proposal that we plan to grow that business quite a lot. I think over next two to three years but definitely in the current year.
Dhwani Chanda
Okay, thank you so much.
Anil Jain
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Praneet an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Praneet
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. So I was wondering about the piping business. Basically we have seen a degrow because of the lack of orders from J on mission rate. I was wondering how are the orders pipeline right now in terms of J on mission and in overall revenue how much is the institutional business? Because I think according to previous comment the management has mentioned that most of the institutional business goes to the Jelly 1 mission to service those orders. So I was wondering what is the institutional business over the last few years and how is it expected to go forward? Is it going to be direct correlation between the jelly emission orders or is it going to be something more? Are we going to sell the institutions apart from the jelly admission orders itself? Also Sorry, I just want to complete the questions about like piping Region then is it? Fine.
So basic and one more question is regarding the statewide split in terms of a piping distribution. So what percentage of our revenue comes from each? Like which states? Can you. If you can mention like the top five states at the moment and where do we plan on growing? Is it the top five or something else?
Anil Jain
Yeah. Okay. So one by one in terms of last year’s plastic pipe business, right where we make PVC as well as polythylium pipes, both in terms of the growth, the reason for decrease was primarily lack of JGM orders either directly from the state state and or via contractors. And second was lowering of the prices. The resin prices are lower so therefore revenue was lower. Having. And in terms of your second question in terms of what was our institutional sales last year? So institutional sale was let’s say close to about 250 crores approximately. Mostly coming through polyethylene pipes which do go, you know, mostly again to JJM via contractors or otherwise.
Year before, you know, that was 650 or 700 crores. So last year it came down substantially. Going forward in the numbers I’m talking about that overall company should grow into high teens including the piping division. We are as of now we have assumed a normal cycle on institutional sales. So almost same level as last year. We have assumed higher amount of exports because of the view we have in terms of various orders under negotiations. And we have assumed some additional sales coming on the piping side from other institutional customers. For example, things like last year we did one desalination project which is almost close to 45 crore rupees.
We are in middle of negotiating few such projects which have been put up in the country. So we expect some additional non JJM institutional business coming from things like desalination and or other type of applications. And that’s how we think we feel confident now if something was going to happen to JJIM and center and state work together and they start releasing more funds then that could be an upside to this number I’m talking about this number is basically higher amount of exports, higher amount of non JJM infrastructure sales and sales into states through our retail business.
That’s where we focus for growth. In terms of last question which you had in terms of the various states we sell the pipes. So as generally is known, Maharashtra remains the prominent and rather than going by state, I think I’ll go by zone. The number two zone for us beyond Maharashtra is southern zone which their combination of four states, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Andhra, Telangana and Kerala. And third zone for us is west, which is, you know, Gujarat and MP and then north, northeast, etc. So that’s where that’s the quantify on.
Praneet
Which zone contributes how much to the revenues. Because to understand in terms of a competitiveness, Maharashtra understandable that we are very high in terms of market share. I was wondering how you’re able to enter into newer markets because there’s a lot of competition in terms of the industry in terms of PVC piping, especially in southern or northern regions. So I was wondering how much portion of incrementally can these other zones contribute to our revenues? And one more thing, in terms of the guidance on going forward, I understand JALG mission looks like uncertain. So you’re considering your revenues to grow despite that.
So can you tell me how much incremental growth do you expect on in the incremental growth, how much do you think is going to be a contribution of exports and what is going to be the contribution of the states? You giving increasing distribution in the states itself. And were we also able to get into the commercial side because you told you wanted to expand our use case beyond agriculture sectors? Agriculture industry. Right. Have been able to expand beyond that. So can you give me some light on those also?
Anil Jain
I think primarily we still remain focused either agriculture sales or institutional sales which are going into industry. We have not gone into much into residential and commercial. In terms of the states where we are looking to grow more because as I said Maharashtra itself we are quite prominent and I think we believe we are largest player. We will continue to grow more in Maharashtra. We feel Karnataka and Tamil Nadu are two other states where we anticipate good growth in terms of south, in terms of northern areas. Two other states where we think we will have major growth would be Rajasthan and up.
And of course we will continue to do a little bit more in other states like MP and Gujarat. But larger positive impact, substantial amount increase will come from Maharashtra, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, UP and Rajasthan. While states like mp, Rajasthan, Andhra, Telangana would also continue to add additional growth opportunity.
Praneet
I’m sorry to interrupt. Can you add some numbers to it? Because it seems very abstract. Continue. I’m just Sorry, this is the same question I had before. I’m sorry.
Anil Jain
I’m unable to provide you very precise data state by state. Right. For competitive reasons and other reasons. But maybe offline there can be as analyst, if you would like to meet our, you know, finance team, maybe some more discussions can be held. But as of now I think this is what we can share.
Praneet
Understood. Can you just give the guidance number on growth how is it going to come out?
operator
Thank you, please. Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Deepak Podar from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah, thank you very much for this opportunity.
Deepak Poddar
So I’ve got two queries. First up, we expect a reduction in debt. Right. So what’s the interest cost we are looking at for this year? FY26 at a console level.
Anil Jain
So at about 400 crore reduction. You know console level or total interest outgo along with the bank charges and all of that is about 350 crores. Our debt is approximately around 10% cost, little bit less than 10. So 400 crore reduction would normally mean 40 crores. Again reduction is not happening on day one. Right. Reduction happens every year. So at least about half, approximately average half reduction, about 20, 20 crore reduction. And some of the reduction is going to be into the 0% NCDs also. So that won’t result into a direct reduction into the interest this year.
But there is that fair accounting, you know, valuation which will take place and that would create some impact on the directly on the debt but on interest per se, basically about 20 crores.
Deepak Poddar
20 crores. So I mean in a console level we are at 433 crores. Right. So that’s what we are expecting it to go to. 420 crores reduction. Yeah. Okay, sure. And my second question is on your outlook. Look, I mean I’ve been tracking this company for some time now. I mean what I have seen, whatever we have been guiding, we have failed to achieve. I mean earlier also we were targeting. Some 4 digit EBITDA this year itself. Which we could not achieve. And even the growth mark, I think we were targeting some 7000 crores. So why do you feel or what. Is different right now that the guidance. That we have given we should be able to achieve? I mean some light on that would. Be very helpful sir.
Anil Jain
Yeah, I think so. You know, first two quarters last year due to whatever the reasons which we have gone through in every investor con call, why what happened. But I think going forward we feel fairly confident in terms of, based on the knowledge we have in terms of, you know, the orders have been negotiated or response from our dealers, the feedback we have from direct customers, that is the farmers, the budgets we have seen from the various state governments where they have allocated to this industry x amount of funds. When you look at and combine all of that data and information based on that we feel so our internal target is higher.
Right. So we are, so we have built a little bit of cushion when we say high teen. So we are targeting more but we think even if things go wrong a little bit or state budget doesn’t come through, if things like that are going to happen, we still feel comfortable for this kind of growth.
Deepak Poddar
Understood. But this growth can be visible from first quarter onwards also. I mean first quarter FY26.
Anil Jain
Yeah. I think you will see a positive growth on a YY basis. Yeah. Yeah.
Deepak Poddar
Okay. Fair enough. Okay. All, all the best. That’s it from my side. Thank you so much.
Anil Jain
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, kindly restrict your questions to two at a time. You may join back the queue for follow up questions. We’ll take our next question from the line of Pawan Yadav, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Pawan Yadav
Thank you very much. And so just two quick questions from you. One is that 10 years back we had this very, very big story of farm valued at more than 1 billion dollar. And we back then only we were hearing a lot of stories about how big and sort of business that is. And since then, I mean I do understand in the meantime we had these debt issues and all but this has been some time and we are not hearing anything about it. So if you can throw some light in terms of how you are looking at that business is it looked with the same optimism that once upon a time you used to look at what is or there are some differences in terms of how you look at this business.
This is question number one, sir. The question number two is if you look at piping business, any sort of piping firm today you have these institutional clients, your real estate sector doing pretty well. The sales is at a different level. Cutting across the sectors. Almost all the piping companies are growing at a pretty decent, decent pace. While our business sort of is much softer than you gave some decent guidance. I think two years, one and a half year, two years back. But we ultimately are still in a very softer zone than what we sort of expected to be.
Just these two questions we can throw some light on.
Anil Jain
Sure. Thank you. I think those are good questions. So you know just in lighter when the farm fresh business didn’t exist 10 years ago, it was merely one division of gen irrigation. Then I think in 16 or 17 it became a company and of course when it became a company maybe the total size of business was only 30. Your question is right in terms of its basic essence that the impact compared to what we were planning, the growth for the business. What’s the impact now? We think due to the debt issues whatever whatever. Last three, four years we have struggled with working Capital and other things which had impacted the underlying business.
But we have held ourselves between what business we do out of India and overseas. I think this year that business is closed, close to 1900 crores, little bit less than 1900 crores. So you know, so at least it is there, right? While it has substantially not grown, it has maintained itself around this size for last few years and EBITDA has been, let’s say around 200 crore plus minus hereafter. With what we are looking at in terms of one, increase use of our capacity for mango and onion. The second, you know, some opportunities for contract manufacturing, we think we should be able to grow revenue much faster going forward.
So I think we are cautiously optimistic. You know, in terms of, you know, you talked about billion dollars. I think we are not there yet. But I think you this year, as I said, this business, this quarter grew almost 14% for the whole year. The food business grew still 9, 9.5%. So I think current year with all the changes which we are making, we are expecting this business to grow also 15 to 20% and we hope for five years. Right. We expect consistent growth onto this story. So that’s the first question. Second, on piping, I think you know, the companies which were involved in piping into commercial and residential sector have done well.
As you were mentioning while recently over last one year I think everybody has softened compared to where they were. Our business has been primarily into rural area and to agriculture and it was connected with the irrigation business which went through challenging period. But stand alone now. I think piping business in rural area. We feel very confident that things will be much better in terms of getting into that other market, commercial and residential. I think those efforts are still at a, you know, not at a big positive. But this year I think we are expecting at least to 200 crore into that segment.
It is a smaller amount compared to overall size of business. But I think we have started, we are going into that region but it would take two, three years to make big jumps to match some of the other companies which are already quite ahead in that market for that market sector.
Pawan Yadav
So just one question. So are we sort of focusing on the urban centers and the sort of commercial business as well? That sort of is always off the table for us?
Anil Jain
No, we have started focusing on it and this year as I said, first time we should be posting more than 100 crore sales. And once you establish the basic network, right. Of the distributors, etc. Then sales can grow quite rapidly thereafter. I think this year is where we are setting up the platform but the benefits you would see more in 2020.
Pawan Yadav
So just one small.
operator
Pawan, I request you to join back the queue please as we have other participants waiting for their turn. Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Ravi Vidaga, a retail investor. Please go ahead.
Ravi Vidaga
Yeah, hi, can you guys hear me?
operator
Yes, yes, go ahead.
Ravi Vidaga
Okay, first question is what are our utilization levels? I mean for the growth that we are anticipating and I’m assuming next year would be better, will we need to incur any capex? What are our present utilization level and would we need to incur any capex? The second is while you know the organic growth and all the stuff which we are doing will add free cash flows which will also reduce debt. Are we, I mean when during our crisis time there was serious thoughts about, you know, monetizing some non core assets and reducing the debt at a faster level.
So all that nowadays we don’t even hear. So are we also looking at some of those levers in terms of non core assets just to move the needle beyond what we will generate from our free cash flows and paying as per the debt schedule? These are my two questions.
Anil Jain
Okay, I remember the debt question. What was your first question? I’m sorry last.
Ravi Vidaga
Now the utilization levels of the prison capacity. Yeah.
Anil Jain
So in terms of I think we still have adequate capacity. We do not have to you know, spend heavy amounts for growth either in MIS or PVC business. We need to do small amount of the investment of a specific product line which has higher margin or which is getting sold more. But you know that would be within replacement of the depreciation within that amount that will fit in. So we are not looking at big numbers in terms of capex in that context to looking at kind of growth which we are planning. The second part in terms of deleveraging.
Right. And the discussion about value monetization, you know, when was that discussion? Right. Our total debt was close to almost 7,000 crores. We expect debt to be down to, you know, this year it is already 3500, maybe closer to 3000 crores in FY26. So we have come down a long way. Most of this 3,000 crore debt. What you see now on the combined consult company including food business and everything else is working capital debt, limited amount of long term debt to back the inventory receivables which are there in normal course, you know, kind of 15% plus growth every year with further additional reduction in the receivables from legacy receivables next year.
So 26, 500 crore, 4, 500 crore reduction. 27 another 4500 reduction will happen. Right. And meanwhile the EBITDA should go up. So I think we are going to hit sometimes 27, 28 approximately the date would be not more than two times of EBITDA. So that I would consider to be very healthy level. Now if there are additional opportunities for value monetization which where we can further bring it down better we would pursue those. And there was this earlier one question related to whether we are listing the food business. There is one is that opportunity and those we would see.
But we have already come down as I said from 7,000. We expect this year down to about close to three. And every year you will continue to see reduction while business will grow.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Farak Khare, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Farak Khare
Good evening sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I was just going through some of the transcript of the last conference call and you mentioned that we expect most of the projects, the EPC projects to be done by March and we expect the receivables, let’s say by September 25th to be secured. I was just wondering are we on right track or we may go into FY27 also with some receivables due because we have the N series due for repayment in FY27. Just wondering do we have enough question because just wanted to see the you know, repeated instance of FY19 what we incurred.
So just just to understand more on that, can we expect all the receivables by FY26 or we may get into FY27 with some more receivables due from the state governments.
Anil Jain
So I think the receivables are due, some of these NCDs are due second half of I think calendar year 26 that is in FY27 and FY28 from this government EPC project receivable. We are, you know, we are as I said we are in most of projects we have done 95, 97% which are going to get completed. So we are assuming at least close to 450 crores. 400. 450 crores to come from these legacy receivers which would allow us to prepay the part of the dues which are falling place in second half of the calendar year.
26 already would be prepaid this year. So whatever the remainder receivables which will come in the next fiscal year, even the projects are getting completed now or let’s say in the current year, then we will have an adequate cushion before the last part needs to be paid. So overall we are actually planning to prepay this year so that we don’t have any last minute issue. We would have significant amount of cushion. And overall our planning is that these NCDS would get kind of prepaid rather than wait till the last day.
Farak Khare
Okay. And the second question is, I remember you used to be sounding very bullish on the retail prices or the institutional spices opportunity. I know we went through the debt and we didn’t have enough working capital on the agro side. Any plans of, you know, revising all these prices opportunity? And one of the participants asked, why are we not listing? We can raise some fund which partly can go for debt reduction and partly for the future growth. Where are we on this prices overall opportunity?
Anil Jain
Yeah. So as you rightly pointed out, right. That we couldn’t allocate adequate working capital to grow the spices business while we are more focused on stabilizing existing businesses like onion or fruit pulp, etc. Which we have done. Right. And as you have seen this year, the overall food business has grown. We are now, I think rebuilding the spice business. Current year again, first time, I think FY26 business should be three figures or more and over two, three years. I think we are expecting spice business to start contributing quite well. And any event of value monetization, like listing or others, which I have answered adequately, so I do not want to repeat would further help support that particular division.
So as things happen over the next couple of quarters, we can keep you updated.
Farak Khare
Sure. On the best side, thank you for the opportunity.
Anil Jain
Thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We’ll take that as the last question for today. I now hand over the conference to management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Anil Jain
Yeah, thank you. And I think it has been a quite productive call, you know. So 25 was a challenging year. But the positives from that year is the reduction in the debt, significant generation of cash flow from operations. I think those were very big two positives last quarter. The higher growth in the HITECH as well as agro has been quite good. So these are big positives coming out of last year. Current year we are very optimistic and bullish in terms of revenue growth, EBITDA growth, cash flow generation and debt reduction. So we think we should be firing on all the four cylinders in the FY26 so that, you know, not only, you know, in terms of quarter to quarter, year to year, but I think structurally company is becoming a different company more focused on free cash flows, reduction in working capital cycle, because that is what will sustain us.
Right? Because we think over next five years there’s substantial growth potential of the company. And mostly we want to pursue that along with the internal accolade and continue to create that room for growth. And we look forward to support of all stakeholders in this endeavor. And we thank you and we appreciate all the support everybody has been providing. Thank you again.
operator
Thank you very much.
Anil Jain
Thank you, ma’ am.
operator
On behalf of Dr. Choksee Finso Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.