J.K.CEMENT LTD (NSE: JKCEMENT) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 26, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
A.K. Saraogi — Deputy Managing Director and Chief Financial Officer
Prashant Seth — President of Business Information and Investor Relations
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Vaibhav Agarwal — Analyst
Amit Murarka — Analyst
Harsh Mittal — Analyst
Vikram Suryavanshi — Analyst
Navin Sahadeo — Analyst
Pathanjali Srinivasan — Analyst
Prateek Kumar — Analyst
Pushkar Jain — Analyst
Parvez Qazi — Analyst
Uttam Kumar Srimal — Analyst
Jaspreet Singh Arora — Analyst
Shravan Shah — Analyst
Sanjeev Kumar Singh — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to JK Siemens earnings call for quarter and year ended 31st March 2025 hosted by Philip Capital India Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vaibhav Agarwal from Philip Capital India Private Limited.
Thank you. And over to you, Mr. Agarwal.
Vaibhav Agarwal — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you, Michelle. Good morning everyone. On behalf of Philip Capital India Private Limited we welcome you to the Q4 and FY25 call of JK Cement Limited. On the call we have with us Mr. Ajay Kumar Saraugi, Deputy Managing Director and CFO and. And Mr. Prashant Seth, President, Business Information and Investor Relations. I would like to mention on behalf of JKC Limited and its management that certain statements that may be made or discussed on today’s conference call may be forward looking statements related to future developments and statements which are based on current management expectations. These statements are subject to a number of risks, uncertain entities and other important factors which may cause actual developments and results to differ materially from the statements made.
JK Cement Limited and the management of the company assumes no obligation to publicly alter or update these forward looking statements whether as a result of new information or future events or otherwise. I will now hand over the floor to the manager of JK7 for the opening remarks which will be for a better Q and A. Thank you, sir.
A.K. Saraogi — Deputy Managing Director and Chief Financial Officer
Yeah, thank you. Good morning everyone and welcome to this Q4 call. The Board of Directors. This Q4 call. The Board of directors met on 24th of May to review the working of the company for the quarter ended 31st March 25th as well as for the whole year. I will be presenting to you a brief synopsis and then we’ll take up the questions. So for the quarter the net sales was 3225 crores as against 2606 in the previous quarter an increase of 24% and 13% increase year on year which was 2856 crores. The EBITDA for this quarter was 736 crores as against 490 crores in the previous quarter an increase of 50% and 548 the previous year an increase of 34%.
EBITDA margins comparative was 22.8% in this quarter 18.7 in the previous quarter and year on year 19.2%. If we look at the profit before tax was 593 crores as against 295 in the previous quarter and 358 previous year. The per ton EBITDA was 1265 rupees a ton as compared to 1040 in the previous quarter and 1078 previous years. These are the standalone results and for the year the net sales have increased only marginally by 1% as 10,708 crores as against 10,563 crores. The EBITDA was down by 1% at 1978 crores as against 2005 crores. EBITDA margins for the year was 18.5% as against 18.9%.
Profit before tax was higher at 1,243 crores as against 12 crores, an increase of 3% and the profit after tax was higher at 870 crores as compared to 831 crores. Year on year the EPS was 112 rupees 59 paisa as compared to 107.5 rupees an increase of 5% for the year. The EBITDA per ton was 1017 as compared to 1087 in the previous year. As far as the consolidated position, the net sales was again consolidated for the company was higher by 23% at 3,466 crores as against 2,119 crores in the previous quarter and 15% up year on year at 3,000 which was 3,016 crores.
The EBITDA for the quarter consolidated was 765 crores as against 492 crores and 560 crores in the previous quarter. EBITDA margins comparative was 22.1, 17.4 and 18.5. The earning per share consolidated was 46 rupees 60 paisa as compared to 24 rupees 50 paisa and 28 rupees 30 paisa. Consolidated position for the year as compared to previous year the net Sales were higher by 3% at 11,493 crores as compared to 11,203 crores. The EBITDA was marginally lower at 2027 crores as compared to 2060 crores and the profit before tax was higher by 6% at 1,242 crores as compared to 1,170.
74 crores and profit after tax was higher by 10%. 872 crores as compared to 790 crores. The earning per share was 111 rupees as compared to 102 rupees. These are the major highlights on the performance of the company. After reviewing the performance the board also declared a dividend to the shareholders. They proposed a dividend for consideration of the shareholders at 15 rupees per share. I would also like to inform you about the debt profile of the company. So the gross Debt as of 31st March stood at for the standard loan position at 5101 crores as compared to 4593 crores.
The cash balance was higher at 2536 crores as compared to 2006. And the net debt as of 31st March was 2565 crores as compared to 2587 crores. The net debt to EBITDA for the year was 1.3 as compared to 1.29. And net debt to equity was 0.48 over 0.42 as compared to 0.48. The expansion project. We are doing an expansion. A brownfield expansion at Panna along with the Greenfield split grinding location at Bihar of 6 million tons. The work is in progress and as per schedule and we will definitely complete within this fiscal. Though our target is that maybe by December or January the entire thing is on stream.
So these are the major highlights and if you have any questions we’ll be happy to address the same. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin with a question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask questions may press Star and one only Touchstone phone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queues you may press Star in two. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Amit Murarga from Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Amit Murarka
Yeah, hi, good morning and thanks for the opportunity. So first of all, congratulations on a great, great result actually. So my question was in FY I see that in Q4 you were at 94% clinker utilization. Could you also provide the clinker produced in FY25?
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah. Prashant, share the numbers.
Prashant Seth
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clinker production for the year as a whole is 1.2 million tons. 11 point. Sorry, 12 million tons.
Amit Murarka
Could you provide the decimal as well?
Prashant Seth
It’s 11.92 million tons.
Amit Murarka
Okay, great. So like with this Panna 2 expansion coming through in December. I believe you will have good leeway for growth even beyond 26 then. I also wanted to understand what would be the expansion plans beyond 26 now that panna is now nearing completion. I’m sure you would want to plan ahead as well.
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah definitely. See we are working out on the various options as we have already told on our journey beyond for 2030 to become a 50 million producer. So we have options for Jaisalmer and we have options in the in Karnataka as well as Orissa and another line at Panna. But mostly you know we are just working out the possibility could be any of the things. But we are working out on the nitty gritties and I think mostly in next three to four months time maybe by closer to commissioning of this plant we should be in a position to know our next plans of expansion.
And we will let you know.
Amit Murarka
Any priority that you think should be there like Pana line three will come.
A.K. Saraogi
No, I think it should be mostly. We are working to if it could be not but we again we are evaluating everything. We are looking at all the approval status so.
Amit Murarka
And lastly capex plan for 26 in rupees crore.
A.K. Saraogi
Capex will be again in the range of 1800-2000 crores in this year.
Amit Murarka
Sure. Thank you. I’ll come back in the show.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harsh Mittal from MK Global. Please go ahead.
Harsh Mittal
Thank you for taking the question. Congratulations to management for a great set of numbers. So my first question is that has there been any update on the Odisha limestone mining these agreement with the state government? That is my first question.
A.K. Saraogi
So not yet. I mean an update is that we are still pursuing and there is. I mean unless we get the either on the getting the mining lease or you know a long term arrangement which could support a project we are still pursuing with the government. We it has not concluded yet the grant has not been done. So I think maybe it looks challenging but I think we should have an answer sometime in next three to four months time.
Harsh Mittal
Sure sir. So second question is what has been the incentive book this quarter and the guidance for FY26?
A.K. Saraogi
Prashant, you can give the numbers incentive for the quarter.
Prashant Seth
Actually. Incentive. We are working on the accrual basis so there’s not much on much of a difference on the quarter on quarter basis it is. It is like normally in the range of 75 to 80 crores every quarter and that is likely to continue in. In this year also.
A.K. Saraogi
Except in this quarter. You know we have incentive which we got for Prayagraj. So that is the incremental incentive of 12 crores which has come in this quarter.
Harsh Mittal
Okay. And lastly what is the consolidated gross debt and net debt? Sorry if I’m missing the opening remarks but if you can share consolidated gross debt and net debt.
Prashant Seth
There’S no difference on the console because there’s going of cash on the consolidate and there’s no.
A.K. Saraogi
Borrowing even in any of the subsidiaries. Okay.
Harsh Mittal
Okay. Thank you sir. These were my questions. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. You may press Star in one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Vikram Suryavanshi from Philip Capital India. Please go ahead.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Good morning sir. Sir, there was a news regarding Container Corporation working with you on tank containers for bulk cement movement as well as. Lnd vehicles for end to end logistics. Can you highlight the scope of work and what how it will benefit for the company?
A.K. Saraogi
No. So see there was a on a tanker movement. This is another you know online which some companies are doing. So we are in discussion with them and we will work out when everything is you know for fake optimization and we are able to resource container because again even there there is a lot of competition. And we had a meeting with the chairman of contain cooperation and then he suggested that you know on the container it is. So we. We will need to work out, you know because there is an increased demand for bulk cement going on.
So how that that would benefit on movement of bulk cement.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Okay, got it. And tank containers are purchased by Concord for some on behalf of some of the customers. Or we’ll buy our own containers and. Conc use Concord networks. How that will be planned
A.K. Saraogi
we have discussed. They will give a proposal. We will review the proposal and then take a final call.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Understood sir. Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question. I reminded all the participants that you may please press Star in one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Naveen Sahadeo from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Navin Sahadeo
Hello. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Good morning sir. And congratulations. Yeah, I’m saying congratulations on great set of numbers. I think everything has fallen in place. Be it volumes realization and the cost as well. My question was are there any one offs in this quarter like you know. Be it on the cost front or let’s say the realization front which are unlikely to continue in the next quarter.
A.K. Saraogi
No, there are no one offs but you know we have to on we have got the good volume numbers mainly driven by the central India and where you know we are more or less, you know we have been able to ramp up the entire capacity now. So in fact we are ready for the expansion. And if we had you know more clinker, you know we could have done extra volume. So but this that is there maybe on the.
If you see on in terms of year on year, you know there would be certain numbers where the. Some of the numbers, you know we had changed the method for it was more material was in transit. So that’s why the sale was less. And this year it has been, you know the transit quantity has been lower. So that could be the only reason. Otherwise we don’t see there are no one offs in terms of any realization or on the cost.
Navin Sahadeo
And there would also be some impact because of the Mahakumbh in the previous quarter.
A.K. Saraogi
No, actually see that is one of the reasons, you know why we have a good growth that we somehow we our logistics team has done a very fantastic job in ensuring you know when there has been actually a minimal loss to us and we could just plan it in a way that during the itself all the dispatch the material lease wherever it was required. But here on your if you see, you know the growth in the eastern region is there it’s reflected. So that is not one of it is going to continue now going forward.
Right, right. My second question then was about the.
Navin Sahadeo
Difference in the EBITDA of console and standalone. So what I observe is that this. Quarter the difference between the Same is almost 28,28 crore which is I think the highest company has ever seen. So is it the UAE subsidiary only. Which is doing well? Is it Toshali which is done exceptionally well? I mean I’m just trying to understand the sustainability of this number.
A.K. Saraogi
See it is the UAEC as we said the UAE plant has turnaround and the UA profitability is better. Toshali is again for the quarter. If you look at there is a. Yes, the loss has reduced in Toshali during the quarter as compared to. As we are ramping up the things the loss has definitely reduced for Toshali year on year. Definitely there is a losses talk about 8, 9 crores into Sally. But otherwise you know the UA numbers will definitely when we are getting in. If you look at on a quarterly basis it could be around anything between 15 to 20 crores quarterly.
operator
Mr. Sadev, does that answer your question? Sir?
Navin Sahadeo
Yeah, sorry, I was on mute. Just one follow up here is that. In the past whenever we have seen. This improvement in the UAE facility it was said as one off or in a sense for some special exports to Australia or something. Like that. Can we now say that UAE as an entity can generate about 1800 crore of EBITDA on a sustainable basis? Is that the confidence or we still need to be.
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah, I’ve had between 15 to 20 crores on a quarterly basis. Again that could be. There is a seasonality, seasonality effect because you know if we see when in the heat, you know, or sometimes, you know, festival falls in, there’s ease or something it gets affected. Otherwise if you look at I think between 15 to 20 crores quarterly this should be sustainable. Right?
Navin Sahadeo
Just one more question if I may. Is about our like, you know, preparedness for the Jaisalmer project. Now I understand we were awaiting some incentives or some package from the state government but from our channel checks I also understand competition. Some of the like, you know, regional players there are moving a little ahead of us in terms of equipment ordering or inquiring. So is it fair to assume that the state has already clarified the incentives and package and hence that could be the next project for us and for the peers or in general that cluster is ready to get developed or there needs more clarity.
A.K. Saraogi
Thanks. So I think the cluster is ready for development. That I would say whatever things are. That is an activity by. There is an activity by us. There is some activity by the competition. I’m not aware of the, you know whether competition has finalized orders that I’m not aware because none of the equipment supplies also have informed that because we do check up. I’m not aware of that. We are working out on all the details. We’ll work out it will be a greenfield side with railway siding and go ahead and many things. So we are in the process of working out the details and then and looking through the.
When the project gets completed, looking to the balance sheet we’ll definitely put up. We’ll see what, what the management or the board decides. So I think clear picture as I said earlier should be there between next four to six months time.
operator
Thank you. You may press star in one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Padanjali Srinivasan from Sundaram Mutual fund. Please go ahead.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
Hello. Am I audible sir?
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah, yeah.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
Congrats on a very good set of numbers. I just have a few questions. So we were indicating about the cost reduction journey. So could you tell us about where we are in that?
A.K. Saraogi
So on the cost reduction journey, as we said we have a scope for 152 to 200 crores. So we have already, you know achieved in case of the exit the average. Could be Less but the exit in. The logistic cost is close to 3540 rupees in the exit in the logistic cost on the green power also there’s an exit of. So we. I would say that around 75 rupees a ton is the exit which we have already achieved. And we feel that during this year also the exit. So we would get this 75 rupees a ton benefit now going forward during the full year. The incremental benefit which this year we could get is maybe another 25 though the exit would be higher.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
Okay so but just to follow up on what you’re saying like if we look at it on a per ton basis I think our freight costs of gone up on a full year basis. So as a lead distance. So when you say that it has reduced on a year on year basis how do. How to understand this better?
A.K. Saraogi
See, lead distance is a consequence of where you’re meeting out the customer. You are. We are working out on the. Where the cost reduction is not. We’re not talking related to read distant. It is you know negotiating a better rate. Amanda, you are going through a bidding process. You are, you know you are dispatching at the L1 basis. You are reducing the detention at the locations which is again helping you in the fate. These are lead distance is a result of you know where the customer like we have opened up Bihar and so it has.
It’s a new market. And so the lead distance has increased because of that. So but, but, but that is not a fair deduction when that that would have been there if these steps would not have been taken that the cost would have been still higher.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
Okay, sure sir, I get it. You basically are saying that you’re entering your geography so there’s some bit of cost involved towards that. Sure sir. And just one more question like with respect to some reason wise dynamics like you’re saying that Central the ramp up was good in this quarter and you did volumes better than the previous quarters. So can you tell us directionally like which sectors are doing better within center? Like is it the individual housing or is it government intra projects? Any guidance there?
A.K. Saraogi
So as you would have seen in that space for the sector see again why central? Because we had made investment in central and that was the biggest area. We are now you know catering the entire state of MP and up and gradually you know ramping up the volumes. And when the expansion comes up the going forward, you know the increase in volumes would be from central in the north and south. You know we will be at par with the market. So this is what. So that we do not lose our market share in these regions as.
As regard the demand. I think as we see presently post, you see the next year, the first year after elections is normally lower which was there. But now the demand was good in the month of March but again which is again quite normal. But this year it was a bit more exceptional. But in this month it is driven by housing and infrastructure. It’s a combination of all that. We have not seen any. I can’t say that in this particular sector is strong resulting in increase in demand. But rural demand is definitely good.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
Growing faster or is non trade growing faster? Sir, in central.
A.K. Saraogi
No sir, see for us, you know, we concentrate more on the trade volumes and we are working because when we made him. We have to get a market share and our, you know, main emphasis is to increase the trade share. Non trade is more on a price driven also, you know.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
Yeah, sure. So just one last question. If my message. Our other costs on a per ton basis have gone up, is there anything that has changed here in terms of our cost structure or is there any element to the this.
A.K. Saraogi
So the other cost which has gone up.
Prashant Seth
Oh, it is, it is.
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah Prashant.
Prashant Seth
It is mainly of the, the advertisement and the marketing spent which we have done extraordinarily in this quarter. And in the other cost also includes some of the costs which are variable in the nature and which goes up along with the volumes.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
Okay, okay. No sir, I’m talking not about the quarter. I’m working on a year on year basis. So it’s gone up from 980 per ton. 2035. So I just wanted to understand like the jump is like pretty sizable. It’s almost to 200 crores increase on a year on year basis. So I just wanted to understand any specific thing that we are doing extra which is like resulting in this cost to go up.
A.K. Saraogi
No, no, see again the cost going up is one. Yeah, Prashant, carry on.
Prashant Seth
No, basically it is, it is on account of the, the action. Yeah. Hello? Yeah, can you hear me?
operator
Yes sir. Now it’s sort of.
Prashant Seth
Hello? Hello?
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah Prashant, we can hear you.
Prashant Seth
So I was telling that basically in account. Yeah, it is on account of the, the network creation and the advertisement is spent for the new markets. So we are doing the extraordinary cost on that account and that is why we are seeing the mean the volume hike which is higher than the industry. So that is something which is extraordinary cost.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
So this may not be recurring entirely. Would that be a.
A.K. Saraogi
No, no, I Would say that, you know, a marketing investment would continue to be there as we are growing. So and you have to maintain the trade share. So the marketing spend will. It’s an investment. See again accounting entry says that okay, it is part of revenue. But as we are expanding and you are entering new markets, you are trying to maintain. So this spent, you know, will continue to be there. This year there was a lot of demand for to have a brand ambassador, you know, for the Grace cement. So we introduced a new logo.
We and we changed the design of our bags. We had brand ambassador. Again, all this is a positive and this is why, you know, in the new region we have been able to grow substantially during the quarter as well as during the year. So this branding in this expense all we call and I would treat it as an investment for some time as we have growth plans is going to continue. Yes, the pattern impact would have been, you know, lower but it is more deflected because overall the volumes have not grown this year. It is only in the quarter that it is, it is higher.
But if you look at the year because of subdued demand, you know, the pertinent costs seem to be higher.
Pathanjali Srinivasan
Just one last question. What is guidance for volumes for 26?
A.K. Saraogi
So 26 volume guidance is close to about 20 million. 20 million for the gray. And if you look at 22 million it should be, you know, combined volume.
operator
Sure. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Kumar from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Prateek Kumar
Hello? Yeah, good afternoon sir. And congratulations. My first question is on your clinical utilization on annual annual basis in north, central and south operations you can get that number.
Prashant Seth
So annual basis the clicker Utilization is 82%. Hello?
Prateek Kumar
Yeah, 82% and. Hello? Yeah, can you hear me? 82.
Prashant Seth
Yes.
Prateek Kumar
And how is it in like north and central plants for yourself utilization?
A.K. Saraogi
We’re not giving numbers for each quarter region.
Prashant Seth
It is more on the same ranging. In the range of say 85.
Prateek Kumar
Okay, and what was the paint segment EBITDA loss for the quarter and for the full year?
Prashant Seth
45 crores is the loss for the paints for the full year.
Prateek Kumar
Okay, and can you highlight on competitive intensity in byte segment? Because there’s some improvement in realizations which you have seen in this quarter. The specific one off or like that competitive intensity has like soften a bit before.
A.K. Saraogi
The competitive intensity, you know, has not softened. This is a mixed number. And the putti continues, you know, to be. I mean we are. The competition on especially on the putty is continuing to be very Competitive as a result, you know this is a declining realization turn quarter and quarter. We every time feel that it has bottomed out. But we are yet to see even beginning of the year. There are some though not that big. But still, you know it is on a sliding trend. There is no particular one offs in the quarter. What I would say it is, it’s an annual, you know, certain things, maybe some it’s a sort of a mix difference.
Prateek Kumar
Okay, last question on cement pricing on like post March. How has been the cement pricing trend, you know, markets since March.
A.K. Saraogi
So post March, you know if you see that north and central there could be about 1% increase in the pricing at least from the exit what we see. And in case of south. Yes, definitely about 5 to 7% increases there in the pricing in this south region.
Prateek Kumar
Sure. Thank you sir. I’ll be doing my questions.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pushkar Jain from Milli Capital. Please go ahead.
Pushkar Jain
Hi sir, my question was also regarding pricing. Can I confirm post March it is 1% in north and Central and 5.
A.K. Saraogi
To 7% in South.
Pushkar Jain
Yeah. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parve Kazi from Nuvama Group. Please go ahead.
Parvez Qazi
Hi, good afternoon for taking my question and congrats for a great set of numbers. So the first question is with regards to the paint business now with increasing competitive intensity in that business, I mean. How do we see the outlook for. That business let’s say in FY26. And secondly a bookkeeping question on the railroad mix. Thank you.
A.K. Saraogi
So on the paint, despite the competition as we had planned and we have been able to close the year with a top line of 275 crores. And again and we feel that in next fiscal again, you know we should have a top line anything between 400 minimum. 400 to 450 crores. And we are working on as we are, you know doing. We should be able to as we have during this year, you know we have done all the. There was some modernization activity done at the pain plant.
So where which is resulting in you know cost savings. And we are working out on the discount structure. We were since we were a new entrant. Our discount structures were marginally higher as compared to competition. So we are collecting on that. The competition continues. We are not you know competing with the top guys still we wherever we are, as we had our prime reason to enter the paint business was you know we were already there with putty and we are using those counters and we are successful and we hope that we should be able to maintain this trajectory of growth.
The chance you can form with a railroad and our rail movement is.
Prashant Seth
12% in this quarter. Rail movement.
Parvez Qazi
Thank you.
A.K. Saraogi
Hello?
operator
Yes sir, you’re audible. We could hear you. Participants, please press Star in one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar Srimal from Access Securities Ltd. Please go.
Uttam Kumar Srimal
Thanks for the opportunity and very good afternoon and congratulations on a very good set of numbers. Sir, my question pertains to premium cement. We have already reached 15% in this quarter. So how do, how do you see premium cement reaching in FY26 as a percentage of trade sales?
A.K. Saraogi
So for the quarter we have achieved 15% but we hope that we are working towards increase in premium. Maybe another 2% increase overall. I mean we have for the year the overall was about 14% 13 foot. So we should do about anything between 15 to 17% in this year. Okay.
Uttam Kumar Srimal
And so what was our fuel mix this quarter?
A.K. Saraogi
Prashant?
Prashant Seth
Yeah, yeah, Our fuel mix was like around 70% of the Petco and balance the alternate fuel and the imported Indian and the imported fuel.
Uttam Kumar Srimal
Okay, that’s all from my side.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of. Just please bring aurora from Equitas PMS. Please go ahead.
Jaspreet Singh Arora
Yeah, hi, good afternoon Mr. And Mr. Prashant and congratulations. My, my first question, sir was on the. Thanks for sharing that. That paints trajectory. What’s the EBITDA break even for us? At what level do we do that?
A.K. Saraogi
I think in FY27 we should be able to achieve that. Which was, you know, maybe it’s one year extension because we bought the plant FY27 we should have a breakeven.
Jaspreet Singh Arora
Okay, got it. And the volume growth that you highlighted. So you said about 20 million. I think we did. So did you mean at a console level? So from 18 we moved to 20 if we achieved that.
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah, yeah, yeah. From 18 we moved to 20.
Jaspreet Singh Arora
So that’s about 10% growth. And in terms of white, I, I didn’t send so white. We did total put together including subsidiary 2.2. So now you’re saying 2 million tons.
A.K. Saraogi
No, I said it’s a broad number. But we should, but in case of white there’ll be, you know, the growth trajectory will not be much.
Jaspreet Singh Arora
Understood.
A.K. Saraogi
You know, so I mean it is very nominal. 1 lakh tons here and there difference. You know, it doesn’t make women on the broad numbers.
Jaspreet Singh Arora
Got it. And on the EBITDA per tensor we’ve, we’ve closed the year on a you know multi quarter high 1265 but the year as a whole was about 1020 you know as you’ve highlighted. So what what aspiration or you know what would be you know that broader range that will give you satisfaction for the current financial year F26 on a full year basis.
A.K. Saraogi
EBITDA button satisfaction is definitely much higher that we should be able to maintain what we have achieved in the last quarter. That is a satisfaction level but actually it will not be so as yes quarterly you know on a yearly year on year basis we would definitely be happy you know if we achieve a number which is at more than FY24. The EBITDA per ton 10. Yeah was 1087. So happy you know if we are able to achieve more than FY24 because FY25 it was lower so.
Jaspreet Singh Arora
So 1100 plus minus I think would you know.
A.K. Saraogi
That’S not in our hands. So yes. Yeah. And.
Jaspreet Singh Arora
And both the upcoming expansions the grinding unit, Bihar and Pana is is you mentioned December for commissioning. So do we get a 1/4 of benefit the March quarter or what I.
A.K. Saraogi
Said that the our target was within FY26. Right. But but we are, we are working maybe by December, January the grinding unit is upstream the clink the as far as the you know the brownfield expansions are concerned which is clinicalization and 1 million ton each at Pannaj and I’m confident that you know we could be able to achieve that in within December. The grinding, the greenfield grinding may be taken a month or so extra but though we are targeting by December latest January this should be on stream.
Jaspreet Singh Arora
Understood sir. That’s all for from my side and and all the best for a fantastic year ahead. Thank you.
operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. This will be the final reminder and no further reminders will be given that you may please press star in one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Shravanshah from Dallas Capital. Please go ahead.
Shravan Shah
Yeah thank you and congratulations on great set of performance for this quarter. So a couple of sensor foster as we are saying if we, if we will be starting the 6 million ton by December January is it fair to say that the next year FY27 at least we should have a 50% plus kind of a utilization. So kind of a looking at 3 million ton extra volume should be there in FR27.
A.K. Saraogi
Oh so about definitely two two and a half million. 3 million. I mean as of now to say difficult because even in this year you know some of the markets when we have the volume some of the volume numbers would be there are part of will be part of the expansion in this year also.
Shravan Shah
Okay. Okay. Got it. Secondly sir, this quarter the trade mix has increased significantly 71% versus third quarter. So obviously it is a great thing. So is there a further possibility to increase this trade? Sir?
A.K. Saraogi
No, no. See what is actually happening. The new market which we are entering like for Bihar for example the entire volume is in the trade segment only. So when the climbing unit gets started then we will enter. You know it doesn’t make sense to send non trade in the new market from. From the existing planet. Because it will not be able to compete when the grinding unit is there. We’ll be able to compete in the. Not non trade segment also.
Shravan Shah
Got it? Got it. Sir. Another just to clarify this quarter paint EBITDA loss was just a 3 odd crore versus the last quarter was significantly higher 1517 odd crore. But still we are saying that by FY27 we should be seeing a break even. Rather it should be this year we should be reaching a breakeven.
A.K. Saraogi
What will happen is that as. As the number the branding investment more or less remains the same or marginal increase when. When I’m getting an incremental top line with an improved gross margin. We are working on an improvement in gross margin that will bring down you know the losses. We are hopeful. We are working. I said as a target, you know we our focus to initially. You know I said. Well before what we said initially it was FY28. What we are targeting is to you know have a break even by FY27.
Shravan Shah
Okay. Okay, got it. And in terms of the revenue obviously this year you said 400, 450 or crore. But FY27 previously we said 600 odd crore. So that is.
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah, it should be 600. Yeah. So if we. So if we grow you know annually in a year, year on year by 150 crores. Okay.
Shravan Shah
And so whenever we will finalize this our next expansion as we highlighted maybe four, six months down the line. So is it fair to say that because we want to add another 20 odd million ton. So roughly the number could be 11 12,000 odd crore kind of a capex that we are looking at. So on a yearly basis from 27 FY27 onwards 2000 crore kind of a capex should be there. But nevertheless given the kind of the profitability we have. So current net date can can easily be maintained. That’s the way one can look at for next even two, three years.
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah, definitely See, if we have. If we have to reach the target of 50 million tons, the kind of investment what you mentioned will have to be made. Otherwise you will not be without investment. You can’t achieve that number.
Shravan Shah
True, true. True. True, true. Got it. Got it. And sir, just a last clarification on profitability that the 75 rupees per ton cost saving we have achieved versus what we 150, 200. But from the next year FY26 we are saying incremental 25. But if I have to see from average to average, maybe it should be a 50 rupees kind of a saving should be there in FY26.
A.K. Saraogi
So average. You know, if we say to the average cost saving during this year over last year as we would be about 40 rupees a ton. The exit is 75. What I said. So again we used to get on an average another additional 40 rupees. 40, 50 rupees as an incremental in the next fiscal on year. On year basis. But exit is again next year’s exit would be higher.
Shravan Shah
True, Got it. Good. And lastly on. On green share how one can look at FY26 or from 51% currently that we have.
A.K. Saraogi
So green share, you know, by FY 2026 should be closer to 60. When that is I. We are working out on various things. I think after Pana should closer to 16.
Shravan Shah
Okay, got it sir. Thank you. And all the best, sir.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take only last two questions for today. The next question is from the line of Sanjeev Kumar Singh from Utila Loswal. Please go ahead.
Sanjeev Kumar Singh
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. So from UAE plant. So I believe that we are running at optimum utilization rate. So can you please share that what is the import which is being done into India from UAE plant? And secondly are we looking at some capex on that plant Also if the utilization rate seems to be more than 90% now.
A.K. Saraogi
No, no, no one the UAE plant is not operating at that level as yet. We are you know one there we are exporting certain volume from UAE plant for our certain markets in the southern region. That is. That’s that volume is around 40, 45,000 tons annually. And besides that some of the customers place order. You know, we the bulk buyers like even Asian paints and some other players. They. They take cement from us from the UAE plant. So we are, you know, because you know the white cement definitely will have a lot of competition. Asian paints plant is likely to commission sometime, you know in.
In Q2. Q2 and that will definitely have an impact on the wide cement consumption because they will also reduce the volume which they are taking from us going forward because when their plant stabilizes they will shift to their own production.
Sanjeev Kumar Singh
So does it mean that in the wide cement and putty business the volumes will largely remain flat over in FY26? Yeah, not much.
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah. So we’ll be growing in the putty and there may be some, you know, slippage though we are working out on a new avenues we are introducing. We have for the UAE plant we have entered into a dry mix category where we are doing quite well. You know, we have already one of the top three. We are number three in the dynamics segment in. In the uae. So it’s again as we told earlier that you know we have a plan for the UAE plant. So it is one the core business continues the white business. But definitely we have to have more. Revenues for you know, income as well as the profit. That is why we will be able to, you know, if we have all these challenges and to maintain a profitability. So this is why we are working out on Africa. The Africa is growing the putty there and we. So all that will result in growth of the UAE business or if there are any challenges there, it will be able to maintain, consistently maintain the profitability over there.
Sanjeev Kumar Singh
And secondly for gray cement, when we speak about 20 million ton kind of volume in FY26 what is the volume are we assuming from the new plant with the expansion which is going on and when we speak about 5 to 7 price increase in in south market. How has been the price increase in Maharashtra? Can you please share this? Thank you.
A.K. Saraogi
Smoke from the new plant. As I said, the expansion which gets this year could be, you know, major volume growth will again come from central India. If you talk about from the expansion itself I could be another half a million and balance will come in. There’ll be. There could be measured quantity. I think should come in from central India which could be out of that 2 million ton growth we could see more than half coming in from central India.
Sanjeev Kumar Singh
And about prices, sir.
A.K. Saraogi
So prices, you know it has broadly mainly increased in the. In the Karnataka. I mean not so much in the Pune region but it is more in the Karnataka region.
Sanjeev Kumar Singh
Okay, so thank you. Thanks a lot.
operator
Thank you. This will be the last question for today which is from the line of Amit Murarka from Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Amit Murarka
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity again. So I just wanted to have a sense around the volume mix around various geographies for FY25 like between North Central south. If you would just give a broad player. I believe you’re selling in Bihar also now. So just if you could give a rough understanding of the same.
A.K. Saraogi
See a bit broadly I would say we. I think maybe 65, 60, 65% and 35% broadly when I would exactly. From north and south should be about 65% and 35 in the center.
Amit Murarka
Okay.
A.K. Saraogi
Central means the east plant. I mean east is part of central plant.
Amit Murarka
Okay. So the new Bihar grinding unit that is coming up. So like broadly I see that there is a. There’s a plan to raise volumes even in east while you club it central. But I see that there’s a plan to grow east as well now. So like so in that sense any, any. Any sense if you give wonder let’s say maybe going ahead what will the plans on region wise growth.
A.K. Saraogi
So see again central plant that’s a natural extension into Bihar from central India. So because again Bihar does not have any limestone. So it is only said by central India plants. So it’s a natural growth where we are setting up there. So it will. The clinker will definitely go from central India into Bihar.
Amit Murarka
As a market has been having lower pricing than the central markets. Maybe almost 20, 30 rupee lower in fact that that after the recent price hikes. So what really the rationale of going more into Bihar when you can actually maybe cater to UPMP and with better realization as well.
A.K. Saraogi
See when you want to expand rational what you’re talking about there is a definitely some subsidies in Bihar which we may get as you grow. You can’t only growth. You can’t pick and choose that only we will have the desired growth and we continue to remain only in this area. How. How will you. If you don’t expand your territories then you cannot go. Right? How will you get the volumes? It will very difficult to get volumes only in existing territory.
Amit Murarka
Sure. Understood. Understood. Yeah. That’s all for me.
operator
Thank you. As that was the last question for today I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vaibhav Agarwal for closing comments. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Vaibhav Agarwal
Yeah. Thank you. On behalf of Philip Capital India Private Limited I would like to thank the management of J.K. simon for the call and also many thanks to the person joining the call. Thank you very much. Even open to the call. Thank you.
A.K. Saraogi
Yeah. Thank you everyone for joining in. Thank you. Have a good day.
operator
Thank you sir. Thank you members of the management. Thank you sir. On behalf of Philip Capital India Private Limited that concludes this conference. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you. Thank you,