Interview with Subash Chand Aggarwal, Chairman & Managing Director, SMC Global Securities

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to another insightful episode of CEO Insights. This is your host Radhakrishnan Chonat where I try to delve into the minds of business leaders. And today, I’m truly honored with us, Mr. Subhash Chandra Agrawal, the visionary Chairman and Managing Director of SMC Global Securities Limited. Now, with his decades of experience, Mr. Agrawal has transformed SMC into a leading financial services powerhouse, offering a diverse range of services from equity trading to wealth management. And under his leadership, SMC has not only expanded domestically, but also has made its mark on the global stage. Along with you, I look forward to gaining valuable insights into his journey, his leadership philosophy, and the future of financial services industry.

Subhash ji, it’s a pleasure to have you on CEO Insights.

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: Thank you, Mr. Radhakrishnan. Yeah, it’s an opportunity for me. Yes.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. So let’s start with SMC’s evolution itself, right? Under your leadership, it has grown significantly. You started way back in 1990. If I were to ask you, what were the pivotal moments that has defined this growth trajectory over these decades? And how did you navigate challenges along the way?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: Radha ji, you see, I qualified as a Chartered Accountant in the year 1980. Myself and my other partner, Mr. Mahesh Chand Gupta, we were studying in library, CA library. So we became friends and then we came to know that we are from the same hometown, so our friendship grew into partnership. So before qualifying Chartered Accountant, we both have decided whether we pass it or not, we will remain as a partner. So luckily, both we have passed. Because in CA, you can’t be confirmed, because CA exam results is very, very less. So at that time, it is around 4% to 5%.

So both, we qualified at the same time. And after that, in 1980, we decided to do practice. No experience of service and no background of our family. We belong to a village, Katti [Phonetic]. So no background of anything. We were living in private rent room, you can say. And Mahesh ji’s father is also a kirana shopkeeper. So his background was also not there as a businessman. So still, we decided to start practice. And we didn’t join any firm before that. So practice, everyone in our family member or in our friend were telling us, it’s not a wise decision, but you both are very confident, God help you.

So still, we were very confirmed. We were very firm that we should start practice. And we start — and we started steadily and slowly, good pace. And in 10-year time, we have very good practice, you can say, 80 to 90. And we were having 20 staff in chartered accountancy and two, three senior person who were not Chartered Accountant, but qualified as an intermediate like that. And so — and good practice around 400, 500 income tax files and 30, 40 audits and other consultancy work.

So at that time, some corporate membership of Delhi Stock Exchange came into existence. So we applied that, and luckily, we got. At that time, what we thought, since we cannot multiply remaining in practice, so it is better that we can multiply ourselves. And I — we thought that this stock market will a white-collar work and as well as we can expand, because in practice, every client wants to take advice from you. So that was the process.

So in 1990, we got the membership of Delhi Stock Exchange. Again, family members and friends were raising questions, you are doing good in practice, why you — suddenly you change the mindset and you transfer to this. We were very firm, we leave the practice immediately, we transferred our entire practice to one of the first article, who was our article, no consideration. And the only consideration was whatever client is there, you have to serve them good. That was the only consideration. And no complain — we must not receive any complaints.

So he did well. And we also did well in our — this stock market, Delhi Exchange ticket. It was an outcry system. As you know, there was a trading hall — big trading hall in Asaf Ali Road and people are crying for doing saudas, it is a very different experience. We were in practice sitting at our cabin, but in Delhi Stock Exchange, we have to run to the stock exchange hall — trading hall, and the capacity of hall was 600, 700 and people were around 1,200, 1,300, and calling and crying for doing saudas.

So it was a — you must have heard, sauda was doing — a new person can’t understand what they are doing. So we did our — very good there because we were having friends in library, they know just that we are very sincere, we are very sincere in our job. And in our practice time also, 10-year practice, we have a lot of clients, they become our client in share market. And due to our credibility at practice time, that credibility plays into this business also, stock market. And we did well.

But in the year ’94, ’95, National Stock Exchange came into existence. And that was the first exchange which you can say, electronic exchange. Before that, nobody was — in India, no exchange was there with electronic exchange. People is having a thinking, it’s electronic exchange. Normally in trade, what is happening in outcry system, if you have to do transaction, you know the — if you are a buyer, you know the seller and if you are a seller, you know the buyer, and you do trade physically. But in a computerized mechanism, you don’t know the counterparty, who is your counterparty is.

So you execute the trade and you execute the trade without knowing the other person. Only Exchange knows the other person. Still, we applied that, National Stock Exchange membership. It was around — at that time, membership and office and working capital required INR2 crore of minimum capital. And I think INR3 crore was the minimum net worth. So we were having around INR2 crore, we borrowed INR1 crore more. And we did — we started this membership of National Stock Exchange along with Delhi Stock Exchange.

Again, as usual, our family members, our friends, close relatives, again, they were complaining, you are doing very well in this Delhi Stock Exchange membership, you have invested so much, you have borrowed the funds also, it is risky venture. Because it is — they called it dabba, right, to computer. You don’t know who is buyer and seller. Tomorrow, your commitment, if front party will not fulfill you, you will be in trouble and the exchange will be closed. So it was the same thing, right?

So again, same things have happened, why you have taken this ticket, you are doing well and you are taking risk unnecessary. But still, we were confident that we will do well. And we did well. And by 2000, what has happened, just like Delhi Stock Exchange is an outcry exchange, in the same way, Kolkata Stock Exchange was also an outcry exchange. And we have taken the membership there also.

But somehow or other, Kolkata Stock Exchange doing badla system. There was an old badla system. And in NSE, it is a different badla system. So people who are clients, badla was very high, like 36% per annum, 48% per annum, means, if you invest INR100, you will earn either INR36, INR48, whatever badla you fix. So a lot of money is being invested through us in Kolkata Stock Exchange.

So six months before, in 2000, we realized that this is not going to be work. So high badla cannot work. People, who is taking money at 48% is very risky. So we told our client that you should not invest in badla now. Before — it is somewhere 2000 — like ’99 September, means, we told everyone that you withdraw your money, we are not responsible. Still, 80% people have withdrawn their money and 20% said no, we are the responsible for our money, you please invest.

And ultimately, Kolkata Stock Exchange failed. It is 100-year-old exchange. And some mechanism have developed where people have lost money. And we also lost money. So our capital, whatever capital was there, we lose the entire capital and the clients fund also. So since 1980 to 2000, we become miners. And people has — those who has said that we are responsible still they say, Subhash ji, if you can pay us, you pay us. Okay, we will pay you entire and we will pay you for interest also. We borrowed the fund and we pay everybody. And it enhances our credibility. It adds to our credibility.

And so, in 2000, people were thinking that SMC is gone, they cannot revive. And — but when we paid money and when we — people were satisfied, client were satisfied, they did — that word-of-mouth publicity has spread like anything that SMC is very good. Subhash Aggarwal and Mahesh Chand Gupta, both are honest and very good. They know how to run a business. And their word is like bank’s word.

So what they did, they invested double, triple amount of money with us. And this SMC Global Security Limited, which is a NSE member, and all Delhi, Kolkata, all closed at that time. And we took the various other membership, Bombay Stock Exchange and — before that, and we started various other things like commodity exchange, currency exchange. So we started spreading that.

And because of electronic exchange system, spreading throughout India is very easy. And so we spread, we did everything, we open so many other venues under one roof like insurance booking in 2008. And in years to come, we open everything, investment banking, third-party distribution, insurance booking, NBFC.

So as of today, we are having all financial product, as I told you. And we are member of NSE, BSE, commodity exchange, currency exchange, we took the membership of Dubai Gold Stock Exchange, and investment banking, wealth management, insurance broking, NBFC, as I told you. So all under one roof, we are providing all services.

Now, as on today, we have more than 4,000 employees. We have offices, 2,400 franchisee office and around 200 our own offices. So it is 2,600 offices and in more than 400 cities we have presence. So as on today, our SMC Global Security Limited is a listed company in NSE, BSE. We took the — in 2008, we took the — this private equity and — from Millennium and Sanlam. And as on today, our share is listed. So I have told you the entire journey of my business.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: What an inspirational journey, sir. And for us, the new generation who have actually not seen a physical exchange, we have only seen it through movies and web series. Hearing it from somebody who has actually lived through the experience was truly inspirational. Subhash ji, through all this journey, something that came up is the leadership philosophy that you have held on to. Every time somebody says no, you cannot do it, you have proven them wrong, though, lovingly. So what has been the leadership philosophy that you have been following, if I were to ask? What has been the groundwork that you have laid for the SMC Group to survive and thrive?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: Look, you see, hard work is one factor, transparency and trust is another factor, your employee strength is also there. Employee strength means employee must trust you and employee should be your loyal. And a loyal employee means you have to be loyal first to the employee, only then the employee remain loyal to you. In worse time also, we give increments, we did everything in — whatever is the period, let us say, in 2000, we retain all our employees.

In 2008, when stock market global crisis was there, still we did give increments, we keep our employees intact. We — they never felt that we could be removed here. Only inefficient person we remove, right? Otherwise, if you are loyal, if you are good, if you are doing hard work, you will be in system, you will get all the increment. So that is our strategy.

And moreover, you see, four or five employees never got up and came to me like anyone like we say strike type or five people come together and speak within such great strength we are easily approachable, we have any staff can come with no appointment and we are open 24 hours, my mobile is on 24 hours, anyone can complain to me for any wrongdoing done by seniors. So — and anyone can approach without any appointment.

Still, I remain free, everything is being delegated and all business has been — is having a CEO and responsible staff. So all work is being delegated, we only monitor the MIS. So that kind of work culture is there. You have to create a good work culture, you have to create staff — like loyal staff and it is automatic — it’s not automatic, you have to be loyal, as I told you. First you have to be loyal to the staff.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Sir, you said, you started from a village and you mentioned that you have about 400 — your presence is in about 400 cities. So outside of B30, you are there. And pre-COVID, post-COVID, the number of — from four crore, some demat accounts, it has now gone up to close to 20 crores. But still, it’s only 5% to 6% of the Indian population that has some financial knowledge. So as a visionary leader, in your mind, like, what is it that will make India invest more and what is your vision or mission to get into the Bharat? Let’s — because people keep saying there is an India and there is a Bharat. So what are your thoughts on that?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: See, our economy is growing like anything. As our Prime Minister said, we will be a Viksit Bharat by 2047. Why we will be Viksit Bharat? It is a simple mathematical calculation. We are growing from 7% to 9%, our economy is growing. And when we say 7% to 9%, that means inflation is directed. Let us say we are growing — nominal growth is more than 10%, 11%, because 4%, 5% is inflation. So net, our growth is 7%. And today, we are the fifth economy of the world. We will be the third economy of the world in next three years. And we can be the second economy of the world by 2047. As you know, 19th century belongs to Europe, 20th century belongs to U.S., and 21st century belongs to India and China. And after 2047, I will say it belong to India only.

And even centuries, it will remain for India because we were golden bird before and will become after that, too. We cannot leave our culture. Today, let’s see that our marriages go on for a long time. In Western countries, they always say it is my 5th marriage, it is my 6th marriage, it is my 10th marriage. And here in India, as you have used the word Bharat, once there is a marriage in India, we can buy a house in its name from the first day. Any investment we can do, but this is not being done in Western countries.

So this is a very important factor for anything. First of all, I am saying about my country that our country will move forward. In the same way, in SMC, under one roof, we are providing all the services. Even the next generation has come. Like I told you, I and Mahesh ji are two partners, his children have come, my children have come. Still, there is a cordial relationship, and things are moving forward.

So this is it. You should be broad-minded and you should have a delegation to move forward and say the right thing right, say the wrong thing wrong. You cannot be selfish. Management and staff, right? So HR sometimes asks, so someone favors management. So I tell them that you say the right thing. Management and staff are not different, it is one. So keep the right thing to yourself. So progress can be made this way. So this is the thing. So that is why trust will be created in the employee. If we trust them, they will trust us. So this is the thing.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Very rightly said, Subhash ji. Subhash ji, you mentioned that the next generation of both families have come in. Obviously, they will bring in with their own set of ideas and their own set of philosophies. So as the patriarch, what has been the next generation’s initiatives that you are proud of? And how have you guided them to take SMC to the next leg of growth?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: See, my daughter, they are all educated. We are also Chartered Accountants. Mahesh ji is also a Chartered Accountant. I have three daughters and one son, all are educated. And they are all Chartered Accountants. Mahesh ji’s children are also Chartered Accountant. And besides CA, three daughters have done CFA also. And two have done MBA from London Business School. It is a very prestigious MBA institute of the world. It comes on the third or fourth number. So all are very educated. They are tech savvy. They have an understanding in technology. In modern times, in our line, tech plays a very important role.

So as I said, my younger daughter, Shruti Aggarwal, she is heading the IT division. There are 250 people in the IT division. There is a CTO and all. And in our business, technology plays a very big role. When we were controlling it, we were outsourcing it. We did not develop it. In our market, we were among the first six or seven, now we are in the 10th or 15th position. We have fallen behind, you can say. Now a new generation has come. It is very tech advanced. And they are doing the improvement in technology with great speed. They are doing it. And we expect from the new generation that our good qualities, like delegation, hard work, and with the staff, keep them, you have to be loyal, then you can expect to be loyal. So keep that thing, keep transparency. Even customers, bankers, stock exchange, move forward with compliance. So this is our message to them. And they are understanding them. And they have broad-mindedness. Everyone is playing their role well, so.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. Excellent. So you mentioned the role of technology. And I was just catching up on your company. You have developed, as you said, everything is done in-house. You are coming up with your own app, separate app and stuff. About 60% — sir, roughly 60% is still revenues from broking. But the other 40%, sir, you mentioned diversification. You have NBFC, mutual fund distribution. So the other 40%, what are the other than broking? SMC is known for its broking business, sir. Can you elaborate a little bit on the NBFC, the insurance piece, that other 40% revenue?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: See, in NBFC, as I said, we started in 2008. Today, we have a yield of INR1,200 crore, INR1,300 crore. And by the end of the year, we will reach INR1,600 crore to INR1,800. And in five years, our target is to reach INR8,000 crores, right? And in the same way, in insurance broking, we are the preferred partner of Kia and Honda motor car. That means, if you buy any Kia and Honda motor car in the country, 95% we would be your broker.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Yes, yes. I have a Kia car and SMC is the broking. Yes.

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: So this is a special tie-up. We are talking about many other tie-ups. So this is our plus point. Secondly, as I said, we have a presence in 400 cities. We were the main sponsor of the one-day match between South Africa, T20. So visibility of the brand is very good. And as I said, we have 2,500, 2,600 offices throughout India. So when a new customer comes, whether physically or online, he has a problem. He wants to understand. So once he comes to your office, he gets satisfaction. And anyway, the old people still go, meet, understand. Online, they are not so savvy. The young kids will do it online. They will understand everything. But the old people who are above the age of 50, they still like to visit, they like to discuss, take advice, RM. So that model is still there. So that’s why we have a mix and match model. And in the same way, in insurance broking and NBFC, and in the broking side, we have everything, commodity, currency, equity. We have Dubai as well. We have a membership in Dubai as well. And we have a third-party distribution. We have investment banking. We have wealth management. We have PMS. We have the debt market. So we cover all this in distribution. And in NBFC, we do NBFC. In insurance broking, we do insurance broking. The rest of the business is covered in the broking side.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Wonderful. Subhash Ji, any other line of business that you have a vision to start, like a banking license or a mutual fund license? Anything in the pipeline that you would like to discuss?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: We are waiting a little. Let us do our business like NBFC, insurance, and broking, and strengthen it a little. So our next vision is a banking license.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. Excellent. Subhash Ji, recently SEBI has been a very active regulator. And they have come up with norms that potentially might impact the F&O space. Sir, what are your thoughts? I know that you discussed this in your earnings call. But just for my audience, what are your thoughts on the regulations that have come up?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: See, right now, first, they have given weekly options to the exchange that you keep one weekly, and keep the rest monthly. So the turnover has decreased a lot, right? It has affected 40% — 30%, 40%.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct.

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: Secondly, the market is down right now. India is selling FPIs and China is purchasing them. Because China has given a fiscal stimulus there. So because of that, their market is attractive. Their market was at 7, 8, 9, 10 PEs. Our market was at 20, 21, 22 PEs. So the FPIs that we were talking about were expensive, they understood selling well and purchasing well. Now, the Trump government has won in the U.S. So the immediate target of the Trump government is that they don’t like China at all. So the tariff system will increase there. And it will apply in India as well. But suppose it applies 15% in India, then it will apply 30% there. So our exports will become easier. So there will be a difference in the economy. Okay? So our volume [Phonetic] has decreased, or the FPIs are going down, they will come because of that. Money will come again. And this is a short momentum. So I think the market will be down for three, four months. Because the quarterly results of the second quarter were also down. So until the third quarter results are not there, the market will not catch up. So if the third quarter results are better, then the market will start catching up. And anyway, there was some expensiveness, the correction was due. So the market needed an excuse. And there was selling of FPIs as well. And there was geopolitical risk as well. So there are two, three factors that are important. Because of which our market has also decreased. And that is why this year, in this quarter of broking, it will be an effect in the entire broking industry. Because when your volumes decrease, then your arbitrage also decreases. First, the regulator has also done it, recession has also come, they have also changed it. So the retail investor has also increased your load by INR15 lakh. So the retail investor feels helpless. So the transition period that will take time to come back, three, four months, that will take. Rest, things will be — stay safe automatically. There is always a period in the market, sometimes down, sometimes fast, sometimes your revenue decreases, sometimes it increases. But this period is going a little bit slow.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Got it, sir. Sir, you talked about geopolitical risk. Now, the two biggest democracies, the elections are over this year. Now, we have stable governments. But now, the atmosphere of war is still on with the latest aggression and all that stuff. And as India is gaining momentum as a next superpower, as you said, sir, there are targeted attacks on the economy. You would have seen the news cycle. I don’t want to get into it. But sir, this geopolitical risk cycle, what is your viewpoint? As India is growing, will we have more economic targets, attackers, or what is your thought process?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: See, for example, there is an issue with Adani, right? So his compliance is a bit less. I agree with this. But he is an extreme, extraordinary businessman, he was developing the Indian economy and he was developing itself. So the eyes are there, where did this guy come from? He became the second — third richest in the world. So these rich countries or whatever they are, some elements, they didn’t like that. So it’s just that, we can blow it that much, too. So there are some things like this.

Third thing, Russia and its doing with Ukraine, because Trump is in favor that this war should stop. But there also, in the short-term, there is Biden government. So that action has been done by them, the missiles that have been dropped. So it is unfortunate. So whatever the Russian counter does, there is atomic power, and if anything plays a little, then it will become a third world war. So which is very negative for any global market or even for the Indian market. So such things are going on. So I think Trump also stated that I will stop the war and I will stop all wars. So I think, let us hope for the best that he comes and fixes everything. And America First is his slogan. But the problem of India, Canada, etc., I think it should be resolved after Trump takes over as a President. So things should move.

Because I am saying this that any economy progresses when it is politically strong, there is minimum internal disturbance, it should be allowed to increase. So this was going on with the conflict between India and Canada, the irritant in Bangladesh was killing Hindus. So all these things will disturb and progress stops. So I think that after Trump takes over, the degree will be better. It cannot end. And then the focus will be on the economy of the government, so the economy will do better. And once the economy is doing best, then the share market is the maximum beneficiary. Because the economy is represented by the capital market. So the future for the capital market is very bright. And if the future of the capital market is bright, then we are part and parcel of the capital market. So our future is also bright.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Nice. Sir, GIFT City, IFSC, that is going to change the way most of the FPIs are going to do business. Sir, any plans or do you already have a presence in GIFT City? And how is this new regulation going to help enhance the capital market?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: See, IFSC, GIFT City, is a dream project of Mr. Modi. The idea is that we are a consumer in many commodities, but we are not a price setter, but we are a price taker, right? We have maximum gold, and in the import of gold — sometimes China is first, sometimes we are first. So we import maximum gold. Still, the rates of gold and silver are established in London. How to import? How to do it? And how to increase its transparency? This is a thought process. And that is why the International Bullion Exchange started in GIFT City. So there, right now, gold is being imported. So there is no need to import. The seller puts the gold in the vault and sells it on the platform. The buyer purchases the gold on the platform. But not all buyers are there. There qualified jewelers and quota systems are provided. Qualified jewelers who have a net worth of INR25 crores are called qualified jewelers. And the quota system is allowed by the government, those who already import, their papers are checked and they are allowed. Till recently, our market share in IFSC is 50% gold, we have delivered more than that, through us. So our market share is good in gold and silver. And secondly, there are three exchanges. Like I said, International Bullion Exchange and NSE IFSC, promoted by NSE. One is INX — IFSC INX promoted by BSE.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Okay.

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: Now, the idea is that they call it NIFTY — GIFT NIFTY. Earlier, it went to Singapore. There was good volume [Phonetic] there. Since it is traded in dollars, earlier, the FPI used to buy NIFTY and pay in dollars, then it used to convert in India, then they used to hedge the dollar. It was a tedious problem. In IFSC, it is paid in dollars. It is taken in dollars, and it is denominated in dollars. So it is easy for them. In that, it is for foreign players. It is a world exchange, so GIFT NIFTY or other products, so it is a good exchange. Sooner or later, it will increase rapidly, and it should increase rapidly.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. Sir, circling back, when we started the interview, you spoke about your journey right from 1980. Almost 40 plus years of journey. Reflecting — sir, reflecting on your journey back, now if I were to ask you, you have faced many challenges. You have seen a lot of opportunities as well. What lessons would you like to share with aspiring leaders who are listening to this conversation once you reflect back the 40-plus-year journey?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: See, there are always problems, don’t call it a problem. Problem is, what we can’t solve — what is difficult to solve, we call it a problem. There is never a problem in life. I say one thing, with a calm mind, with a positive mind, understand everything and face it and problem will be solved. We don’t call it a problem in right terms. So what happens is, like, sometimes, there is something — I am calling it a problem, because in layman language, challenges are called problems. When there are challenges, we get scared. We should never get scared. There is a time for everything and it gets better with time. We should keep our efforts continuous. And second thing, we should never spoil our mind. We should never think negative. We should not think about dishonesty. We should think about honesty. Your things will keep increasing automatically, okay? And everything else is there. We have to work hard. We have to create trust. We have to maintain transparency. With all these things, never get scared, never think of a problem, always work with a positive frame of mind. Ultimate, you will be the winner. There is no doubt in it. It is 100% correct in all circumstances.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. Subhash Ji, it’s been an absolute pleasure catching up with you. Your thoughts, I am sure, is going to inspire a lot of youngsters who are listening to this. So before I let you go, my final question that I ask all my guests. You would have read so many books in your lifetime. But if I were to ask you to pick one book or a resource that significantly influenced the leadership style that you are following, the thinking style you are following, as an advice for those, what would it be, sir?

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: See, I have not found a book bigger than Gita. There, there is a solution to everything. You are in business, you have to lead a simple life, you are in retirement, you are making progress, in Gita, there is a solution to everything. And in Gita, all — I mean, all management skills are there. Isn’t it? So you should read Gita and have faith in your culture and you will feel that there is no better book than this. No author writes even 10% of Gita. It is a master book.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. Excellent. Subhash ji, it’s been an absolute pleasure catching up with you on the CEO Insights podcast. And I look forward to more such interactions in future.

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: Thank you very much, ji.

Radhakrishnan Chonat: Thank you, sir.

Subhash Chandra Aggarwal: Okay, ji. Okay.