Radhakrishnan Chonat: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of CEO Insights hosted by Radhakrishnan Chonat. In this series, we bring you conversations with influential CEOs who are shaping industries driving transformation and setting benchmark in their respective fields. And today, I’m personally thrilled to host Mr. Kartik Jain, the Managing Director and CEO of Shriram Asset Management Company.
He has an impressive career spanning three decades and Kartik brings a wealth of experience from his leadership roles in renowned organizations like Cadbury, KPMG, ICICI Lombard, HDFC Bank and DBS. He has had a remarkable track record in sales, distribution, marketing, you name it, product management, strategy, digital business. He’s also a British Chevening scholar with a background in technology and management from IIT Bombay and IIM Calcutta. And Kartik has been at the forefront of leveraging data and digital platforms to enhance customer experience and business growth. With that, let’s dive into his journey, his insights on the evolving landscape of asset management and his vision of Shriram AMC.
Mr. Kartik, it’s an absolute pleasure to have you on CEO Insights.
Kartik Jain: Likewise. Thank you for having me here. Really appreciate being part of this podcast and being able to reach out to your viewers.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. Kartik, with that, let’s start with your career and leadership journey. Now, you’ve had a diverse career across multiple industries from – right, starting from Consumer Goods and Consulting to Banking and Insurance. Now, if I were to ask you, what key lessons have you carried forward from these experiences into your current role as CEO at Shriram AMC?
Kartik Jain: Okay, interesting question. So see there are two, three aspects to it, right? One of course is at a personal level, which is that, you know, when you go across so many different organizations and so many different industries, you have to have something that holds you through across, right?
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Sure.
Kartik Jain: Yeah, of course, one is that, you know, belief that, you know, you can add value to whichever team or company you’re working with. And that comes from having, let’s say, a few core skill sets that you really believe in and are passionate about. And that’s helped me throughout. So for example, essentially, I’m a, you know, a person who is a, like I said, I look at how do you create value between the cusp of where data and technology meet to create a good customer experience. And what I’ve found is whether it is a Consumer Goods company or in consulting across various other organizations or in Insurance or Banking or even in Investments, this holds true. And in today’s day and age of where data and tech are the key things, you know, it really adds value. And that’s helped me across all my roles. That’s one key learning.
The second key learning is that, you know, when you’re looking at building businesses or creating impact, there are two ways of doing it. One is the situations where you can create a large, let’s say a launch or a large product launch and that creates a huge impact, you know, immediately.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.
Kartik Jain: The other option is that you have an insight in the customer and you launch something which is initially to be small, but then you keep incrementally improving and getting better and better as you go along. It’s almost like you take a long time, or one or two years of planning and then launch a big bang launch or you have an idea and you launch it and then keep enhancing as you go along. Sometimes like you have in, you know, consumer goods, a large product launch is what you need to do because you’re planning, the whole planning takes time because you set up the entire manufacturing setups and so on. But often in a digital age, it’s quicker and faster sometimes that you go ahead, hit the market and then you keep iterating as you go along because you also learn how customers react to what you’re throwing at them. And the market also evolves pretty fast. So I have found like in today’s day and age with the rapid change happening, it sometimes helps to actually, while you may have initial thought you would market with, but be open to keep on iterating as you get more and more customer feedback.
The third thing on a personal level for all your viewers out there is that to have belief in yourself because there will be challenges along the way, there’ll be ups and downs, you know, both in the environment and in your own career. So the whole thing is wherever you are, whatever you’re doing, believe in yourself, the look you can see it through and whatever your dreams or passions are, stay true to them. And finally, you know, whatever you hope for in your career will work out.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Very interesting. Let me pick on the second point you mentioned, the customer demographics and the changing preferences. Now, of course, we talked about your background in Consumer, Digital Banking and all. Now in your current role, how do you perceive the evolving demographics and the investment preferences of the young generation of the Indian consumers? And are there any strategies that Shriram is doing that are essential to cater to this changing expectation? What are your insights that you have seen, how investment is perceived?
Kartik Jain: So there — if you look at the dimension of each individual, right, from an investment perspective, one thing you people talk about is what is the risk-taking ability? And second is, you know, how — what is their, you know, maturity regarding investments? Okay? The two things very important to keep in mind. And third, of course, is what kind of, you know, interaction or what kind of medium of engagement would they prefer? Okay? Now, the first two, risk and maturity, you can say all three are independent of age. Okay, it’s not one learning, it’s mindset-based.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Okay, okay. Correct.
Kartik Jain: So I could be, you know, 20 year old, I could be a, you know, 67 year old, I would still may have still have a aggressiveness mindset depending on where I am in my life journey.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.
Kartik Jain: My understanding maturity of investments could also be equally diverse, right? It’s not linked to age.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct.
Kartik Jain: Also, how savvy or what I prefer in terms of engagement. Yes, recently, you find that the older audience, all your customers are more, more — it’s nice, prefer physical interaction. But many of them are also going online completely, right? So when you evaluate your customer segment at one level. While yes, they are broad stereotypes and broad directions, we have to be open-minded to say, look, I have a lens to evaluate a customer by, I will not link it to any bias based on age or gender or geography, right? And that I think is a key insight that I have seen in this environment, right? So what does that mean? So that means that you have to be present in the way in which your target customer would like to consume or, you know, in a — partake in investments, right? It has to be in a way contextual to them, aligned to them.
So therefore, if you look at the — now, if you look at the — therefore, if you look at the various channels of reach, so what do we have? You have the fintechs; the fintechs have all the platforms out there; and the aggregators who can reach out to online audience. You have the, maybe the wealth managers, the banks and the individual distributors, advisors reach out to the clients physically. And you also have, let’s say people who are not currently exposed or have access to maybe investments. You know, it could be smaller geographies, et cetera. Somebody who could be, let’s say, even in urban markets could be SEC, you know, CD or lower incomes trader. So when you’re designing your product, you have to keep that in mind.
So for example, if you look at the first one, right, the people who are very digitally savvy. So what happens is that as a manufacturer, when I take my product to market, I have no control what the person is experiencing.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.
Kartik Jain: So for example, you know, it depends on, so the risk profiling is a function of the online platform, they may or may not do it, right? Then the maturity, again, it depends on what they’re offering and you know, how they train their customers and how they come and consume. And third is in terms of my reach, yes, are we present out there in those markets, right? So if you’re launching a product, we have to realize that look, you can’t control. All that you can do is, you can be proactive and you can position yourself in a way that helps these customers get the best out of your — what you’re offering.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: That’s true.
Kartik Jain: So if I say, look, I, you know, and then I will keep my own brand in mind. It’s okay. Like let’s say I am from Shriram Group. I want to make sure that people see Shriram and they look at, you know, they’ll observe us in an environment where I can control the interactions. So they’ll say things, Shriram — Shriram fixed deposits. Okay? Lending, et cetera. South conservative, they’ll assume that or they’ll expect us to have more stable products because they used to, you know, fixed returns.
So when I go to market, first, I have to have balanced products in mind. So for example, we have launched multi-asset allocation funding, equity debt, combo equity debt and gold. So we have gone to market with balanced products that are aligned to what we stand for, where if I don’t know whether the customer’s risk is being profiled or not; how mature they are about the product; they should be able to understand this very easily. So that’s one thing we are keeping in mind. But when I go to, let’s say the wealth managers or the individual advisors who are far more — who are able to interact with their clients, then when we go to them, we meet them individually one-on-one and educate each of these channel partners about who we are; what our product is; how is it positioned; and more importantly, how should they position it to their clients; and what is the customer need that this product is fulfilling. So I can do a far more engaging and deeper engagement with these guys, right? So that’s what we typically do.
We go and meet them, talk to them individually. They understand how the product is positioned, where it is in terms of clients, asset allocation, metrics, risk-return frameworks. I can take that time to explain to them, but then they will go out and talk to their customers. And the good advisors or channel partners actually want to know more because they represent the client’s interests.
The third, if you see that the customers are not, let’s say, who are not really familiar with the investment category. So there obviously have to make a ticket two parts. Obviously, you have to take them in a way where you will — it has to be in an environment that they are familiar with, right? For example, let’s say we are working with the Shriram Group channels, reach out to their customers. So I have to make now that Shriram Group works is that when we go and lend to customers or even raise deposits, we build deep connect with the families, with the individual, with the family. And that’s over time or generation, right?
So if I have to, and if let’s say those that the segment is in say in Bharat versus India, maybe deeper geographies and they’re not really very aware of investments. So I have to work through that channel, which they are used to and comfortable with. And send my message to that net — to that channel and make the process almost easy and simple. So it has to be either very simple form or if the Shriram channel already has an online app that’s onboarding customers and make it part of the app and say, “Look here, you already are doing — taking loans from us or depositing your fixed deposit with us. Same individuals reach out to you and explain to you how Shriram also has one more product for you. Simple, SIP, low-ticket size, and very easy application process. And you observe how it goes along” and the engagement we make sure we have a simple product available there, right?
So that is the, you know, you mentioned about customer insights and the new data and technology, et cetera. All that sounds good, but reality is that each customer segment is different in the way they, you know, interact. It’s about their mindset. And when we as manufacturers are going out, since I’m not the distribution channel, I have to make sure that our products are aligned and are able to, we have to position and communicate our message very clearly in the different channels.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Very, very insightful. So you mentioned about channels of distribution. I think the mode that Shriram AMC has is the Shriram Group as such. And you mentioned multiple generations of truck finance in South, you know, any trucker you speak with, they’ll have a tie up with Shriram Finance. So I — from my vantage point, I see that as a big moat that Shriram AMC has. I mean, probably the other bank-related AMCs will have that kind of a moat. I’m glad to hear that, you know, you are able to tap in. So that customer, right? The non-India, the Bharat customer, you mentioned that, you know, you educate them on SIPs and stuff. How has been that penetration? Other than lending, are they — is Bharat now ready to take on investments other than gold and the typical real estate that we normally hear of? Are they — what sort of insights can you give from that particular distribution channel of Bharat?
Kartik Jain: Yeah. So early days for us as an AMC, because we have begun to work with the Shriram Group, but the feedback we’re getting is that people, given the whole “Mutual Funds Sahi Hai”, the Power of SIP and, you know, all people have access now to all the digital channels like TV, et cetera, or even online OTTs. We’re fairly familiar. I think the key thing is that those who haven’t dabbled in it are, their whole thing is, you know, either behavioral inertia or maybe risk perception. There is a bunch of guys who already are dabbling in it. So I think the feedback is that people are far more open and aware now than they were much earlier. And also their aspirations, right? The people who are parents, they want their kids to do better. They understand they have to save for their education or whatever. So they’re far more open to looking at avenues that can give them that kind of, you know, maybe better returns or help them plan for the future.
But one insight we also had was that look, even because, you know, the while the AMC is 30 years old, you know, we’ve been, in that sense, at a low key, even the first step has been actually reach out to our Group staff. Because what we realized was that when they interact with the clients, the clients are going to ask them, okay, what do you know — what do you think about the product, right?
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct, correct.
Kartik Jain: So we said, okay, what we should do is first, we have a 1.2 lakh, you know, employees in Shriram Group as a whole, let’s reach out to them first. Once they start to adopt the product and, you know, and then they have conviction, then they’ll naturally, you know, be able to sell it or promote it or at least educate their clients or their customers. We’ve done that. Therefore, we’ve gone back and, you know, said, “Look, how can we times the SIPs with your salary” So you’ve gone to market, essentially gone to town internally, you know, and made sure we had about, you know, literally tens and if not, you know, hundreds of VCs and internal sessions to actually work closely with their HR and with the employees to educate them on our products on SIP and how a simple SIP, which can be linked to their salary or post their salary can really help build long-term wealth.
And what we say is that couple of simple principles. So I’m going to — so to your question I’m answering in a different way. I’m thinking while, you know, it’s important to reach out to the end customer of Shriram Group, more important is to reach out to the internal staff. So we’ve gone and said, look, two things. One is like Warren Buffett said right that you should first, what’s important is first your income minus savings, and then you expend, then to expenses, not the other way around. Right?
So first thing you said is that you first, you need to save from your income and then spend. Second is that, look, we’ve showed them the power of compounding of SIP. Saying, look, technically you can be a crorepathi over the — if you join, let’s say in 22, if you’re 22 and you joined Shriram Group, retire at 60, even a Rs. 1000 SIP compounding at that, you know, 13%, 13.5% per annum can give you a crore when you retire.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.
Kartik Jain: So you know, it’s that simple. And the third is we said, “Look, very simple principles behind SIPs, start early, don’t stop and keep adding.” So you yeh theen mantra, you know, we must keep the three mantras in mind. So the earlier you start the better. And we’ve got actual examples, use cases, we understand they get the message that how starting early gives a, you know, builds a corpus much more, how you shouldn’t stop, you know, when, when let’s say the markets are down, et cetera. And then we get a bonus increment when you have some cash flow add to your SIP and that, you know, helps you reach your goals faster, and then link it to your, you know, individual financial groups. So that’s what we’re doing.
And that has seen a big, you know, positive shift. So now the people who have gone through that, they’re saying, “We want to take it to our clients. You know, we want to make sure that we take mutual funds to our” — you know, so there’s the process of, of course, certification training, all that’s going on.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent, excellent. And when they go, they go with the conviction, not just trying to, you know, push a product, they go with the conviction that they have personally seen the growth.
Kartik Jain: Yes, yes. Yes, yes.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Wow! That’s a, that’s a great distribution strategy you have. Now as the CEO, I’m like, let’s stick to the Shriram AMC point. What’s your long-term vision sort of you have visualized for Shriram AMC? And how do you plan to shape the growth trajectory in the coming years? Because, you know, there are, I mean, obviously there is competition 40+ AMC. So I’m all ears to hear your strategy.
Kartik Jain: So before I go strategy, I’ll just make one statement. I mean, I tell my team as well that while all of us obviously want to build a business, we all want to create something which will have a high AUMs and so on, but be clear with the purpose, ki why are we doing this? The purpose has to be clear with them. That’s what sustain us throughout, right? So we say the purpose is because, you know, in mutual funds investments, we can change and shape people’s lives.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.
Kartik Jain: Right? And people would mean what are just the end customer, our customer, our channel partners, and also the all our stakeholders, right? So keep that in mind. That is a fiduciary responsibility that we have where we can actually help shape and, you know, make a difference in people’s lives by bringing them to them these kind of investment principles and concepts and products that, you know, are meaningful to them. Starting point is that.
Then based on the — obviously then, you know, you have questions of how big do you want to be? I’m going to numbers, but basically it’s a large market, right? So expectation is the next few years will be a 100 lakh crores in terms of industry AUM. You know, even if I have a, you know, a small share of that will be a large enough meaningful, you know, AMC. But the bigger thing is how do you get them? So how do you make sure that you build a sustainable, profitable business, you know, that can scale over time? And I’ll tell you why that’s important. And therefore the principles that drive it, right? So when I was — I joined last year, 1.5 years ago. So when I went to the market, people would say, okay, you know, a lot of AMCs come and go. How serious are you guys? I said I look, I went to ChatGPT and I questioned ChatGPT and said, tell me in the last 25 years, how many AMCs I have exited, consolidated, merged, sold-off, et cetera. You know, the 15 names came, okay. Including large global players.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Yes.
Kartik Jain: Not Shriram AMC.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Yes.
Kartik Jain: Not Shriram AMC. So our name never was there and nor will ever be there. So not to worry.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.
Kartik Jain: We are here for the long-term. So that’s what we call commitment to our clients. So how do you build a long-term business? I say, look, so we are looking at three key pillars. One is, you know, what I call 3Ps, which are basic to investment or asset management. One is Performance, second is Product, and third is Placement or Partnership; how do you make sure you get your products to your clients.
So on the Performance side, all three are important because I have to have the right performance, you know, right product, which meets customer needs and make sure I take it to, you know, I place it well to where my, you know, our clients or investors can access it. So, and if you do this right, you know, in a cost effect — keeping your, you know, how does it — costs-to-income in mind and build a steady business and not be in a hurry. I think that’s where we’ll build a long-term sustainable business. And the example I told you, right, I can do a, I mean, I’ll just digress slightly the point I made. I can do a big bang, blow up a lot of, you know, marketing dollars, marketing spends and say, okay, I’ll be a big splash in the market. But, you know, this is a long-term business, right? As they build up over time, as trust builds up, is when you start to, you know, also be relevant in the market. So our approach is to go step-by-step, build brick-by-brick, make sure every, there’s a quality business you’re building, step-by-step across all elements. And as you get customer feedback, keep incrementally improving and you know, this 1% compounding rule, if you get better 1% every day, you know, we’ll compound and get better and better.
So to come back to that, if you look at the performance piece, right? So we have specifically taken an approach where, you know, we are going to be different from what conventionally people would be doing. So the context is like this, I’ll give you a small context to that. As you may have read, we have a quantamental approach to our performance — our investment management. The background to that is like, when we spoke to our, you know, investors and our shareholders, our partners who take a stake in the business, they are seasoned overseas CIOs, hedge fund managers. They said, look, pre-COVID, the interest rates were low, cost of capital was lower, there’s more predictability in the business results, business outcomes, so buy-and-hold strategy would kind of have worked. Post-COVID high interest rates, you know, higher cost of capital, a lot of uncertainty, global uncertainty, compressed business cycles, so buy-and-hold may not work always. So you have to, you know, in a way follow what the market is doing and you have to have a quant element in your strategy.
Having said that, quant requires a lot of data. It’s often, you know, it’s a function of how well you can model the environment. So therefore it is not always perfect. So you have to fundamental as well. And the key is to work in an integrated way, because, you know, very often what happens is people say, okay, I’ll be a quant shop or I’ll be a fundamental shop. And the two can’t integrate to that easily. Right? So we said we’ll take the best of both worlds. We’ll have the, you know, a databased approach to that depth of quant. So we can crunch large amounts of data and be able to get insights or patterns very quickly. And we will overlay that with fundamental such that we are able to, you know, look at the quality and of the stock picks as well as the management quality, et cetera. And look at the financial evaluations and then be able to build a high quality portfolio that performs. So the team is one. It’s a quantamental team. So they’re analysts and they are the quant analysts. They are fundamental analysts. They work very closely together and each feeds off the other. And therefore our entire approach is that, you know, how do we therefore build disciplined sustainable alpha?
So what this does is in a very brief nutshell is that we — and of course the, yeah. Okay. So what it does is that basically you run quant models, which create a portfolio for you and which the analysts and fund managers oversee finally, and the final — the fund manager decides finally what’s the portfolio construction. A majority is led by the quant models and there’s an overlay that happens, right? So for example, if there’s a policy change, there’s certain corporate action or some ad hoc action or some shift in the environment or the corporate, which the model can’t pick up immediately, the fund manager steps in to take action, right? So that is how it works.
The beauty of this is that when we go to market with any strategy, I can backtest it. So otherwise, you know, you are hoping or your expectation is that, okay, if it’s a value — it’s a fundamental-based strategy, that, okay, approach should work. The fund managers hopefully has better call and they are betting on the fund manager per se, right? What this does is that it reduces the uncertainty and increases probability of success.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Okay.
Kartik Jain: So I can, you know, I can do it and we normally do a 10-year, 20-year backtest on our performance on the model, right? So yeah, and we know in different cycles how it performs and we can adapt it to different, you know, strategies. So when we go to market and even our Board insisted that look, if you’re doing a quantamental approach. Please make sure your backtest is, you know, is solid before you go to market. So that’s what we can go to market with. It gives therefore the up — and partners and the customers also more, some more confidence and conviction. And it does away with the need to have “star fund managers.” So we have very good fund managers, excellent fund managers, but the idea is my core underlying model is a star because that removes biases.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Okay, okay.
Kartik Jain: So we strengthen the core model. That’s our star, you know, investment strategy. And we use the overlay of the insights of the, you know, the fund manager, or the analyst to sharpen it and make sure it goes to market in a better, more effective way. So you have machine plus man, right? And all of you know, AI, right? AI to us is Alpha Intelligence. So we believe that if I bring machine plus man together, quant-fundamental together, we are able to create the alpha intelligence that helps better returns for our investors. So that’s the first P. I have to get some time to explain them. That’s the first P, our Performance. And we’ve deployed that across all our funds. So we are now a quantamental fund house. All my equity portfolios are driven by the quantamental approach across the Board.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Got it.
Kartik Jain: So even when you do a new product, new fund launch, we go to market saying, look, you know, we’ve done the backtest of our core strategy. And this is the, you know, kind of the backtest direction results. So we have, you know, confidence on whether we can deliver going forward or not.
Second, of course, the Product. Product, we want to make sure that we have a good, you know, offering two things. One is a good offering across the spectrum. So, you know, people have a shorter term goals would look at debt funds; more medium term goals would look at hybrid funds; and the longer term obviously equity is there you know, beyond five years. So we have good representation across all these three segments. We have — we are launching a liquid fund in November, and we’re also launching a new equity fund, which I’ll talk about later in November as well. So then we have three funds in debt, overnight liquid ETF as a liquid fund; and we’ll have three in hybrid, your balance advantage, aggressive hybrid, and multi-asset allocation; and three in equity, flexi-cap, you know, tax saver, and one more, which is a — we’re launching Shriram Multi Sector Rotation Fund. So good representation across all.
The second dimension to this is to make sure that whatever we go to market, like I mentioned earlier, we have consciously gone with more balanced products, not with niche products, because we want to make sure that clients who are coming across for the first time have a balanced product, because mid-cap, small caps can be volatile.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct.
Kartik Jain: So at this stage, let’s go with the more balanced products, which meet clients’ asset allocation needs, whether it’s across market cap, which is — a flexi-cap can meet that; whether it’s across asset classes, with the multi-asset allocation fund does, you know, equity debt and gold, or whether it’s across sectors, which is our next NFO, which is the Multi Sector Rotation Fund.
So — and within that, the idea is to, you know, see how well we can basically be a bit different in how we go about launching the products or the solutions we introduce. So that’s on the product side. And also we’ve, final point on that is that we’ve kind of followed a barbell strategy, you know, on the products as well. So we’ve got, if you will, the mutual funds, which cater to the mass, you know, the mass-affluent, and the mass segment. We’ve also got our PMS Certification, the license, and we’re launching our PMS in this quarter as well, which caters to ultra HNIs and HNIs. And we also have our fixed income book, I mentioned liquid fund or overnight, which basically caters to the institutional segment, right. So across the volume margin mix, we are well represented in terms of products for the entire client segment, client sets.
So I can cater to right to the, you know, your Bharat or, you know, your Rural India, as well as to the ultra HNIs and to institutions. So that’s the thinking that when you go to market, because — and there are obviously cross-linkages across all, right? The CXO I go to first, you know, pushing my liquid fund or offering my liquid fund or overnight. There’s also a person who can invest in my, you know, PMS for my mutual fund. And the same person is also probably, you know, investing in fixed deposit through Shriram — through Shriram fixed deposit. So it’s like, how do you leverage all those interconnections? And that’s how you build a more longer term, you know, kind of business and strategy.
And third, of course, is Placement. So, I mean, that, of course, is more distribution-based. We’re working closely with the Shriram Group channels, working with external channels across all, whether it’d be the physical channels, right from the advisors, the IFAs, MF distributors, the national distributors, the wealth managers, the banks. We also working with the digital channels and so on. So that’s to make sure that we are present wherever we go. It’s the team who’s working on that.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent.
Kartik Jain: And of course, there we’ll see how to use, you know, data and how to use, you know, contextual communication, reach out to customers and so on.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. So 3Ps; Performance, Product and Placement. If I were to, you know, ask you to pick one P that personally, you know, you’re going to push, which one will be, is it Performance, is it Product, or is it going to be the Placement part for growing the AMC business?
Kartik Jain: So actually, before I answer the question, there’s a fourth P, which is in terms of the — which is the People.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Okay, okay.
Kartik Jain: So my — as a CEO, my first thing is to make sure I have the right people who have the right, you know, growth mindset with the right ownership mindset, who take initiatives, who work as a team, and, you know, who obviously are passionate about the space that we are in. That’s my first, obviously. That’s given. So within that, if you ask — to your question, see the performance part is critical to the asset management. That’s my core offering to you, right? So a lot of my time goes into making sure I work closely with the investment team. See, I’m not a fund manager, right? But I understand data. I understand, you know, investments and I understand, I’m an Engineer by background, right? So I understand numbers. So I work closely with the investment team to ensure that the point I made, right, that we institutionalize the process of our investment quantamental framework. Because that’s the one that has to continue and sustain over weeks, months, years.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.
Kartik Jain: You know, after decades, right? Because that’s when, like I said, if we have to, we’re looking at talking to customers saying, okay, you’ll retire, you know, invest in our SIP, but you’ll retire 28, 30 years later, and still build your retirement kitty. So I have to make sure that my investment philosophy stays till then, right? And if, like I said, if I go with the model approach, how do I have a solid, you know, model that powers this, that has to be process-led. It has to keep on. And because the market keeps changing, right, the model also has to keep evolving. So ensuring that we are up to speed following a process, we are robust, et cetera, is what I focus a lot on.
Otherwise, you know, I’ve been, if you see all my roles, I’ve been essentially — in all my earlier roles, I’ve been in production, products, strategy, marketing, distribution, e-commerce. So all that I understand that come naturally to me. So I’m a natural product and distribution guy. But in terms of the current role, when I do all these, the more critical one is the Performance, which I work closely with the team.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Interesting. Let’s, let’s talk about that fourth P, that secret P that you mentioned People. Now, having led teams across various functions and companies over the years, right? If I were to ask you, what are your core principles for building and nurturing high-performance teams?
Kartik Jain: So one, of course, when you select people, that’s important, right? You know, I have to have people who have a bias for action, who take the initiative to get things done. And that is a critical part of the piece, right? And of course they have to have positive attitude. So that’s important because, I mean, again, it’s cliche, but it’s important because we want to build a positive mindset. We want to make sure people are, because there’s challenges. There are lots of ups and downs. There’ll be struggles. We are like growing — a lot of good pains. You have to have a can-do positive attitude saying, “Look, I — we will get things done. We’ll see it through.” That’s the first thing that you have to have a mindset, right? And when I hire people, I also tell them, we’re a startup. When you’re 30 years, we’re a startup. So when you come in here, you have to roll your sleeves up and, you know, work and build the business and grow with the business.
Second, obviously, it’s very important that we — there has to be teamwork. The collaborative approach is very important because, you know, it’s a small team and it’s not like a large organization. Like I say it’s a small team and we are working together. And if you want to build a process that finally delivers to the client, it has to be collaborative.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: True.
Kartik Jain: And that is one thing that I also focus a lot of time on, to try and make sure that people engage, get together and they support each other. That to me is, you know, extremely important.
Third is, you know, I — like I said, if the, you know, so linked to a purpose in some sense, but I asked them, okay, when they join in the induction, you all know KYC, okay? Know Your Customer? You all know KYD, Know Your Distributor, but what is KYB? So they say, what’s KYB? I said, Know Your Boss. So who’s your boss? So they have the cliched answer, boss is Supervisor, yeh-woh-Kartik whatever they have in mind. I say, nahi, just Know your Boss. The boss is a Customer, whether internal or external. So that’s the final boss. So you have to make sure the end customer is — the customer is the boss, and you have to make sure that that’s what you’re working towards. It’s not for me, you’re doing something. Don’t try and please me. I’d be happy if you — the customer is happy. Right? So that’s the key thing that we, you know, inculcate and try and make sure that is, I mean, again, the cliche is customer-centric, customer-obsessed, but I think how do you make it, make sure people get the message is also important that you work towards building a customer-centric, customer-focused organization.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: KYB, Know Your Boss. Very nice.
Kartik Jain: Know Your Boss, yeah. And finally, of course, last thing is, you know, which I tell the people is that, okay, look, you want to spend the majority of your life in at work, right? So come here with the, you know, with a passion towards the work. So enjoy your work. Yes, there will be pressures, target pressures, issues that’ll keep happening. That’ll be, you know, ongoing stress, pressure, they will always happen, but come in with the intent to enjoy what you’re doing, right? So don’t — so your positive attitude, a can-do attitude, and you want to enjoy the stuff you’re doing, then we’ll see it through because there’ll be challenges along the way. So keep that attitude that should help us, you know, build a business that’s again, long-term, long-lasting, aligned to customers, here to problem solve and make a difference.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Interesting. Now, coming to the industry, the Asset Management/Wealth Management, let’s call it Wealth Management. Now, there are a lot of young professionals, you know, finance professionals, or any anyone for that matter. This is a new industry that has opened up, they’re all interested. So for those, you know, we have a lot of young audience listening in. So for those of them who are interested in joining this industry, what would be, you know, a few pieces of advice that, you know, you would give them now that, you know, you have an idea about, you know, the long-term prospects of Wealth Management/Asset Management?
Kartik Jain: So, I mean, there again, so one piece, of course, like I had said, is to keep the purpose in mind. What are you entering this business for?
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Correct.
Kartik Jain: Is it for your own wealth or is it for creating wealth for the people who will be serving the clients? That’s important. Because that will make sure that you are here, staying there for the longer term and doing the right things.
Second is that you have to be very open to learn and be humble about it. Because it is a, lots of, it can be complex business, lots of products, lots of, you know, nuances around the whole thing, constantly evolving. So you have to be very, very open to learn and the more, and you are always learning at any — in this industry, in any age, you’re always learning. Regulations change, markets change, you know, the environment changes, products change, new products come in, et cetera. So that’s very, very important. These two things, I think, are very critical to keep in mind for somebody who’s joining in the industry. And then if they have these two, I think, elements, they should do well.
And third, of course, is what I say is adaptability and flexibility. Because, you know, if you want to be in this space, you don’t know which way the, you know, the road turns. So be open — and be open to — in some sense, sometimes go with the flow. Yeah? And then, if it takes you, be adaptable and keep learning and keep adapting and you keep growing.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Very interesting. Go with the flow. Kartik, you know, shifting gears a little bit, let’s talk about, you know, you as a professional. So one thing that, you know, we keep getting requests is, you know, outside of work, we want to understand, you know, how do they — some people say meditation, some people say, you know, sports. So what are your hobbies that, you know, keep you occupied when you’re not focused on your work?
Kartik Jain: So I’m more of an active outdoors person. So one, of course, in terms of keeping fit and, you know, balanced — one does a regular, you know, running, swimming, gymming, whenever one has time. And there’s a routine for that, right?
Meditation is important, like you mentioned, that’s again, you have to, in this day and age, you have to meditate to keep your balance. Otherwise, I like trekking and I like, you know, wildlife.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Interesting.
Kartik Jain: So when I get the chance to go out with friends, go either trekking in the Himalayas or hills, or go for, you know, wildlife treks and outings or sanctuaries.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent. Excellent. Finally, my question that I always ask, you know, all my CEO guests, can you share some books that have personally influenced you on your professional as well as your personal journey? And, you know, some insights from those books and, you know, what would be your top three recommendations for my listeners?
Kartik Jain: Top three. Okay. So one book I was reading, I picked up recently was this book by Mark Minervini, Mindset Secrets for Winning.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Mindset Secrets of Winning. Okay.
Kartik Jain: Before I came into this, you know, in the couple of years back, I was just figuring out, okay, try to find some books on trading, right? And Mike is a pretty, pretty well-known, well-known trader, but it’s not about the trading that I — anyway, in this current role, everyone can’t trade. But the whole thing is the mindset that’s required to win was a very interesting, it’s a very interesting book. In fact, and he’s almost summarized all the stuff that you might read in any other of the so-called, you know, self-help books and put it very well. So that’s one, you know, interesting book that I’m going through. I keep dipping into it. Very interesting. And I should read it. I would recommend to everybody who had a chance to go through it. It’s a good book to go through.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent.
Kartik Jain: That is one. Secondly, I mean, it’s a — it means, this is an old book, you know, Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Okay.
Kartik Jain: So that again, different because that kind of, it helps you think beyond, right? Not just get constrained by what you see around you and it helps you grow and think beyond. So these two I can think of right away. Yeah, I think these two would be good to start off, and I think would be good.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent, excellent.
Kartik Jain: The book in the one keeps on going through a whole bunch of stuff that comes.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Wonderful. Wonderful. Kartik, it’s been an absolute pleasure catching up with you getting to know your management style, getting to know you as a person, as well as, you know, your plans and vision for Shriram AMC, which has been pretty clear to me. I personally like the fourth P, the secret P that you have. With that, I look forward to more such interactions with you in the future as well.
Kartik Jain: Thank you so much. Thanks for the whole opportunity. I also enjoyed the entire session and look forward to being in touch and hopefully interacting with your reviewers again.
Radhakrishnan Chonat: Excellent.
Kartik Jain: Thank you.