Intellect Design Arena Ltd (NSE: INTELLECT) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Jan. 24, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Praveen Malik — Vice President Investor Relations
Vasudha Subramaniam — Chief Financial Officer
Arun Jain — Founder of Polaris Group, Chairman & Managing Director of Intellect Design Arena Ltd
Rajesh Saxena — Chief Executive Officer, Retail & Central Banking
Manish Maakan — Chief Executive Officer, Global Transaction Banking
Analysts:
Rahul Jain — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Vivek Kumar — Analyst
Manoj Dua — Analyst
Pankaj Bobade — Analyst
Rucheeta Kadge — Analyst
Prolin Nandu — Analyst
Ram KV — Analyst
Chirag Kachhadiya — Analyst
Ryan Floyd — Analyst
Rohit Balakrishnan — Analyst
Presentation:
Praveen Malik — Vice President Investor Relations
[Starts Abruptly]
Our website. Our leadership team is present on this call to discuss the results. We have with us today Mr Arun Jain, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr Manish Makan, CEO of IGTB; Mr Rajesh Saksana, CEO of IGCB; Mr Bhanesh Prabhu, CEO of Intellect AI; Mr Sudha, CFO; and Mr Vikash, he is a partner and he looks after the strategy in the company. Besides, some other senior members of the Intellect management team are present in the call. Now I hand over to to take you through the results. This will be followed by Q&A session where your questions would be replied by the senior members of the management team. Once the Q&A may start, you can ask a question by clicking on raise your hand and then we’ll unmute you and everybody will be able to listen to you. One safe-harbor. I would like to remind you that anything which we say, which refers to our outlook for the future is a forward-looking statement. This must be read in conjunction with the risk that company faces. With this, I request to give her briefing. Vasuda?
Vasudha Subramaniam — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, Pravin. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the Q3 full-year ’25 investor earnings call. It’s my privilege to take you through the highlights of this quarter. As you would have noticed from the press release and investor deck, we have significant milestones to share in this quarter. So today’s discussion will cover four sections. Number-one, a deep-dive into our financial performance; number two, the strategic initiatives that would significantly drive growth and market leadership; number three, how emac.ai is accelerating our leadership position in the market; and number four, on-market recognition and evens. Now let me begin with our financial performance. Revenue from operations for Q3 stood at INR607 crores, while the total income is INR625 crores, registering a growth year-on-year on a like-to-like basis. Our year-to-date revenue from operations for the year has reached INR1,768 crores, while the total income is INR1828 crores. We continue to maintain double-digit growth in two-year and three years CAGR on an LTM basis. Our license linked revenue comprising the platform, license and AMC stood at INR292 crores, contributing nearly 48 percentage of the total revenue this quarter. The LTM ARR as of Q3 was INR700 crore, underscoring the trust and stickiness of our platform-driven solutions. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR121 crore with a margin of 20%. Profit before-tax came in at INR93 crore and profit-after-tax was INR70 crore. Despite global challenges, we have sustained financial stability with zero-debt and INR804 crore of cash-in hand.
The financial resilience positions us to capitalize on future opportunities, ensuring sustainable growth for stakeholders. Now let me move on to the second section, which is about our strategic initiatives. Q3 was pivotal for Intellect as we continue to execute bold strategic moves to strengthen our market leadership and drive sustainable growth. A significant milestone this quarter was the signing of an agreement with Central One Credit Union enabling Intellect to assume its digital banking operations. This agreement marks an important step-in expanding our presence in North-America, a region critical to our growth strategy. To put this agreement in perspective, we had stated in earlier calls that North-America is our next focus geography after our success in Europe, initially the transaction banking products and subsequently with consumer banking, welcome insurance. We have a significant presence among the P&C insurance leaders with our purple fabric platform adopted by-20 plus carriers after individual POCs and evaluation. Our liquidity and payment products also enjoy an installation base with the market leaders in the US and Canada. We recently struck a large engagement with the market-leader in Mexico. This arrangement will further strengthen our presence in geography, taking our digital engagement platform to a full position. We are excited about our association with the credit unions and the possibilities with our EMAC platform in driving their transformation agenda as well as that of the other financial leaders in the US and Canada. The transaction is expected to close-in the next few weeks and will serve a substantial network of Canadian credit unions. Now the second initiative is on the SME enablement through global linkers.
Our strategic investment of INR20 crore and Digital Solutions Private Limited positions Intellect as a leader in corporate and government e-procurement, driving growth in trade and supply-chain finance globally. The Asia-Pacific has been identified as a major trade corridor in most global studies. Similarly, the vibrant SME segment has been identified as a key engine of economic growth in every developing economy as well as advanced markets. Global Linker is a start-up in the SME ecosystem space that offers shop front and e-catalog services to SMEs. Apart from access to financial services through partnership with banks and has an enrolled base of over 300,000 SMEs. IntelX platform encompasses the IPX — ICPX and IGPX platforms that power the intelligent procurement process for corporate and governments. Our transaction banking products supports global trade and supply-chain finance apart from the regular payments and collections. We see significant synergies and potential in the IT assets coming together to form an interconnected commerce ecosystem with value accretion to all participants like SMEs, banks, buyers and the platform. Let me go to the section three, which is about eMAC being a catalyst for transformation. Continues to lead the digital transformation journey for financial institutions worldwide. The zero waste architecture based on first principles thinking helps financial institutions accelerate the realization of the transformation vision while keeping total cost of ownership across run the bank and Change the Bank initiatives the least. In Q3, emac.ai achieved significant milestones by being chosen by 11 global customers across key regions, showcasing its capability to address diverse and complex financial requirements. The notable deal wins include one of the largest US banking institutions focused on asset and wealth management adopted CTX, Corporate Treasury exchange to enhance liquidity management and automate cash operations, ensuring efficiency and superior client service.
A wholesale insurance brokerage firm specializing in risk management across multiple P&C lines has adopted magic submission exponent and risk analyst, empowering underwriters with AI-driven tools to streamline workflows and improve decision-making. A prominent Nordic wholesale bank reinforced its trust in CTX, leveraging the platform to optimize liquidity and provide sustainable treasury solution. A Spanish banking giant expanded into Asia with payments focusing on innovation, operational excellence and seamless customer payment experiences. A large Turkish bank implemented the DEP to deliver AI-driven personalized real-time interactions for customer across all touch points. Africa’s largest financial institution awarded as a multi-country CTX engagement spanning across 22 countries, replacing legacy systems with scalable future-ready solutions. A major South African banking conglomerate adopted the digital engagement platform, enhancing customer satisfaction with personalized and seamless engagement. A financial services leader in Southern Africa implemented core banking to provide contextual and personalized banking journeys for its evolving customer-base. A prominent corporate bank in the UAE renewed its trust in trade, delivering a unified omnichannel experience across its transaction banking services. A top Saudi financial institution adopted trade, enabling seamless omnichannel solutions tailored to the dynamic needs of trade corporates. Finally, we are thrilled to announce that its greenfield AMI in Malta has revolutionized its services across the European economic area by implementing our emac.ai and platforms, significantly enhancing the customer experience and operational efficiency.
So we now saw how emac.ai was a catalyst for transformation. So emac.ai is driving business impact across the globe. Its composable open architecture coupled with the composability platform accelerates transformation initiatives with more customers successfully adopting our platforms this quarter. Here are some of the go-live highlights of Q3 that showcases emag.AI’s global impact. There were three go-lives in Americas Magic submission powered by Purple Fabric, one go-live in Europe in corporate Treasury, five go-lives in India and digital core and treasury solution, cash management and wealth management, four go-lives in Middle-East and Africa and central banking transformation, core banking, cash management and digital banking innovation, two go-lives in Asia-Pacific in liquidity management and DTB platform and one go-live in Australia and New Zealand involving co-banking transformation. So for the year till-date, we had 34 wins and we had gone live on 37 digital transformational projects. Now let me come to the last sections about events and market recognition. Let me talk about the events. Also made its mark in key industry and technology events during the quarter, showcasing the progress of our architectural and technical superiority., the annual event for corporate banking was held in China in October, where we demonstrated our AI-led trade and supply-chain platform, apart from other industry-leading platforms of CTX, payments and digital transaction banking. In the transaction banking business, we also held a launch of wholesale banking in Dubai.
At the InsurTech event at Las Vegas, we demonstrated the versatility of our purple fabric platform and industry-specific products such as magic submission and risk analyst. In the consumer banking business, we hosted the Global Finance Awards event in Washington attended by the Global Chief of the industry, we also hosted the GCB Oxford Central Banking even attended by several leaders from the central banks world over. Arun delivered the plenary address at the Banking Summit at London. Closer home, we held an event for bank pressurers at Mumbai and a two-day event for transformation through emac.ai for bankers from the Indian subcontinent. The response and feedback during and post these events enthus us further in our pursuit of global leadership in the financial technology space. Now on the market recognition. Our leadership is consistently acknowledged by top analysts. We are recognized as a strong performer in the Forrester wave for digital banking platforms. We are named category leader in the Charter’s Risk Tech Quadrant for regulatory reporting. We are ranked leader in Ombia University Payments Hub with best-in-class vendor execution. These accolades validate our position as the preferred partner for financial institutions globally.
In conclusion, Q3 has been a quarter of transformation marked by stable financial performance, both strategic moves and innovation-driven growth. Emac.ai platform continues to accelerate our acceptance and adoption by leaders across geographies. In December, we hosted a session with specific focus on Purple Fabric, our enterprise-connected intelligence platform. The potential of these technologies and platforms evident in the robust pipeline built and enhanced market activities. With the advent of the new calendar year that marks a new financial year for institutions in the advanced markets, we are hoping for further closures in the ensuing quarters. We are confident in our ability to deliver long-term value for stakeholders through disciplined execution, continuous innovation and customer-centricity. Thank you for your time, and I now welcome your questions. Over to the operator.
Arun Jain — Founder of Polaris Group, Chairman & Managing Director of Intellect Design Arena Ltd
Before jumping to question, I think Central One is a very big initiative. Can you hear me?
Rajesh Saxena — Chief Executive Officer, Retail & Central Banking
Yes, sir. Yeah. Yeah.
Arun Jain — Founder of Polaris Group, Chairman & Managing Director of Intellect Design Arena Ltd
So fortunately, we have Rajesh here. So Rajesh, investor would love to know what agreement you have signed in Canada with Central One and how Central One is important from — is growth of GCV business to cross INR1,000 crores for next year.
Rajesh Saxena — Chief Executive Officer, Retail & Central Banking
Yeah. Thank you, Arun. I think let me just step-back and talk a little bit about what we have told investors a couple of quarters back. I think we’ve talked about our strategy of first going to Europe, following GTB and building a business — a good business — retail banking business in Europe, we’ve had a decent success there. And our next bastion was North-America, wherein we said we will go into Canada. So Canada is an important market for us. It’s what we call as a strategic C1 market for us. So from that perspective, from a marketplace perspective, Canada is important. And if you look at our product and if you’ve been listening to our investor calls, our platform, our digital experience platform, which is a codeless platform has been seeing a lot of success in the markets built on the emac.ai principles and it’s seeing substantial success in the last couple of quarters. So if you look at both the market and the product, we had an opportunity to look at C1. So for — I’ll just take two minutes to give a credit union perspective for Canada. In Canada, there are about 390 credit unions, 200 plus are in Quebec region, which is a French-speaking region and 190 are in the other parts of Canada. C1 is a — has been formed by — for serving these credit unions and it has three or four businesses.
One of the business that C1 does is to provide digital platform for retail customers, SMB customers and commercial. So out of this 190 odd credit unions, C1 has a majority of these customers who run their digital experience platform on C1’s platform. They have three platforms, they have member direct forge and a mobile app. All of this is multi-tenant and SaaS-based model. We have signed into an agreement with C1 to acquire this digital business and run this business for from C1. And with this and as Vasuda said, the deal will close-in a couple of weeks from now, wherein we will be — we will be getting a substantial number of employees from C1 to come into our fold. So we will have scale in Intellect Canada with Canadians coming over and working with us. And also we get substantial number of customers who will become our clients now from a digital experience platform. The important thing to note is that this is not only about digital experience platform, but it’s also about opportunities where we can cross-sell core banking, we can sell lending, loan origination and also commercial banking solutions. Most of these credit units are also looking at getting into the commercial banking space. So from that fit, we are suddenly seeing a significant scale that we are getting into from a Canadian, from a strategic market in a strategic line-of-business for us. Arun, back to you.
Arun Jain — Founder of Polaris Group, Chairman & Managing Director of Intellect Design Arena Ltd
Yeah. Yeah. So thank you, Rajesh, for concluding this acquisition of the more than 150 clients in that region. So this mix Americas over 200 clients for Intellect. As we said, there are five markets for the Investor America market was the last when we entered in a strategy and that was the focus you would keep asking and ARR is a two second focus. So this brings a INR200 crore of ARR equivalent this business will bring INR200 crore of additional ARR through this business to the revenue pool of Intellect. So this is a substantially valuable entry from three-dimensional perspective, expanding the product-line into a large number of customers, North-America entry and expanding AI footprint from a perspective of that multiple product can be sold. So this is one very, very important leveraging we are looking at it.
The second part was, Manish to highlight around what is the global linker investments could be or the whole GTB growth engine is working on. So if we just take — just to update, because all the three businesses now are accelerated in 2025. Intellect AI, we shared on 18th of December, we shared with you Purple Fabric, the potential of Purple fabric would be INR1,000 crore to INR5,000 crore. Manish is sharing the growth engine with GTB, which is our frontline business, which is the first business which crossed INR1,000 crores, now Rajesh business will be crossing INR1,000 crore. And then the third business which we are creating in like AI. So that’s the kind of a storyboard what we have been telling you from last five years, I think step-by-step is moving in the right direction.
Rajesh Saxena — Chief Executive Officer, Retail & Central Banking
No, thanks, Arun. This is an important asset from my perspective. We focused from a transaction banking perspective of how to expand the cash management and trade supply-chain capabilities for all large corporates and SME mid-market segments. What this offers us as a capability is to be able to offer three things now. Number-one, it’s a capability equivalent to Alibaba to create a marketplace. It has capability like Shopify that you can create your e-markets and you can create your own engines from where you can do payments. And the third capability it brings on-board is that I can embed this into my CBX channel now, whereby the banks can get access to a much larger SME customer segment base.
So our attempt with this investment will be to scale this up to add to the edge of our platforms, whereby all SMEs can be onboarded through it and then we can potentially run the entire lifecycle of an SME where banks will go after them through this route. This will help in the supply-chain as well as receivables, which the large corporates really look after them for. So this is a good footprint in the market right now. It’s about now taking it across Asia, Middle-East and Europe for its expansion and in Stage 2, take it to North-America. So we’re going to closely work along with the team to scale it up. Our distribution access to the products, sophistication will be the magic which will create with this. Back to you,
Arun Jain — Founder of Polaris Group, Chairman & Managing Director of Intellect Design Arena Ltd
Thank you. Manish, anyway, we shared last-time, so let me hand it over to investor to ask questions of this strategic move what we have at this point of time.
Questions and Answers:
Rajesh Saxena
Now in case you want to ask a question please click on raise your hand please click on raise your hand. First we have Mr Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. This is Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Please unmute yourself.
Rahul Jain
Hi, I hope I’m audible now. So please on. Yes, yes. Thanks for that detailed explanation, but I think I would still need some more help to understand about this Central One kind of a transaction. If I have — what I’ve got so-far is basically, we might be taking over the tech team of C1 and is it also involve migrating from the current back-based platform to emac.ai or that’s not part of the equation at this point. So love to hear more on this.?
Arun Jain
Yeah. So I think Raul, thanks for that question. I think what we are taking over, as you rightly said, is a team of people predominant of team in that is engineering, solution architect, there, but we are also taking over a team which is the relationship management team, the sales team, the product team. So it’s a combination of members coming from various fields, predominantly being on the engineering and the solution architect side. To your second question on back pace, a couple of years back, C1 had decided to go into take-back pace, but unfortunately, they were not able to scale-up and that project was discontinued. And so they went with a few credit unions to backpace and then they had to discontinue and come back to the original — their homegrown solution. And that’s the solution I talked about, which comprises of three products, Member Direct, Forge and their mobile app. The possibility for us is that now over a period of next couple of years, we would like to migrate many of these customers from this platform to our digital experience platform. So we are going to run this platform and then over work with the credit unions to migrate these customers into our platform.
Rahul Jain
So Rajesh, if I got you right, essentially right now this is just like re-badging of their team and we will have a fixed billing on this team. And over a period of time since we will be knowing all this 150 odd credit union over a period of time, we might chase some of them into our customer-base and migrate it to a much better and modern solution. Is that understanding right? And if yes, then what are the billing and cost that we might see on an annuity basis at this point.
Arun Jain
So I think, Rahul, you have to understand this like of business of INR200 crore as a revenue line. We are business INR200 crores running it and upgrading it using our technology, as simple as that.
Rahul Jain
So basically, we would be getting a INR200 crore from this INR150 credit union or this would be from that’s right.
Arun Jain
That’s right. From the credit unions.
Rahul Jain
Okay. And eventually, if we are able to migrate, the potential of this INR200 crore will keep on increasing over period.
Arun Jain
Keep on increasing. So our target is how do we cross-sell them core banking and lending and upgrade them on DEP.
Rajesh Saxena
Yeah, just to add, Rahul, just to be precise, it is 160 customers. So that’s one. And I think important point for all of us to notice the opportunity is not only to migrate them to our digital experience platform, but these credit unions also, as I said in my earlier preamble are looking for core banking, lending and commercial banking solutions. So there is an opportunity to cross-sell other assets that we have.
Rahul Jain
Right. And just last bit from my side on C1, is there a lock-in for us for the employee base that we are going to take it or we are — we are open to optimize it whenever we wish to do that? And secondly, on the — on the other transaction that we have done, is this an strategy wherein we would start using our cash-flow to add more capability on more product side or it’s like one-off transaction and we would not like to see this as a trend.
Arun Jain
Okay. So just to respond, first question is around — sorry, Rajesh, you can respond?
Rajesh Saxena
I would rather not answer that question, Rahul, because it’s a little sensitive about employees. So if it’s okay with you, we will let the deal close and then we will talk about that piece.
Rahul Jain
Sure. On the second question, if you could close.
Arun Jain
Second question is about strategic fit. We have a CPX and GPX announced earlier. That’s what the two product government — so we want to get into procurement space and this is the SME business space, we saw the opportunity and it fits into DTB. So we have more 50 customers on DTB. So it’s a — kind of — is it kind of a — it’s not just cash to be reinvested, it’s a part of the strategic fitment which required this investment to be there.
Rahul Jain
Can we see it as a module extension to our existing GTB system?
Arun Jain
That’s right. That’s right. It’s a — where we are bringing all the CPX, GPX, GTB and Global incur into one common ecosystem. It’s an ecosystem design investment.
Rahul Jain
Good to see all this transaction is like we are working beyond the usual path. Thank you. I’ll jump back to the queue.
Rajesh Saxena
There are significantly expands the TAM which we are going after and to be able to bring in things for the full life-cycle of an SME.
Arun Jain
Next one thank so I think now Raul true I think
Praveen Malik
So thanks Raul next we have Mr Meet of Equarius PMS. Meet?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Praveen Malik
Yeah, yeah. Please go on.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So first question is on the few of the deals which were won in earlier quarters, but were slipped to the subsequent quarters due to delaying compliance or signing maybe. So just wanted to know have those deals started to ramp-up?
Arun Jain
Manish.
Manish Maakan
Yeah. Some of those deals are what Vasuda read-out, which we closed in South Africa and we closed in US.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. So all of those deals have been — have been started, right?
Manish Maakan
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Second question is in terms of FY ’25 revenue, so earlier our expectation was to clock a 15% in FY ’25 excluding GEM revenue, but if I look at the nine months revenue and the Q-o-Q ask rate for Q4, it seems a very bold us. So that guidance is still intact or are we expecting some lower-growth?
Arun Jain
And obviously, last-time also you mentioned the guidance, we have stopped giving guidance, but I think we are looking for expecting better, much better next quarter. So that’s what we would like to look at it. I mentioned to you INR700 crores a quarter. I think we’ll be closer to that.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay, okay. On next question is regarding R&D expenses. So Vasuda ma’am, we capitalized INR140 crores INR150 crores worth of R&D annually and another INR200 crores worth of R&D spends get expensed out in P&L. So just wanted to know the breakup of that between the maintenance or upgrade of our existing products and the R&D which is spent for new product development?
Vasudha Subramaniam
Anything related to the new product development is what is allowed to be capitalized. So for maintenance or something is anyway being expensed. Whatever you see as part of the, which is the capitalized work-in progress relates to the new product development.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. And can we expect the current run-rate of R&D spends to continue?
Vasudha Subramaniam
Yes, yes.
Unidentified Participant
In absolute terms.
Vasudha Subramaniam
Yeah, yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So as a percentage of revenue, it may decline.
Vasudha Subramaniam
As far as R&D spends are concerned, we already look at the absolute number. So INR140 crore is the target that we have in — that’s the budget that we had put in the beginning of the year and we’ll be meeting that budget.
Arun Jain
Yeah. In percentage term, it will decline. That’s right.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Understood. And can I squeeze in one more? No.
Vasudha Subramaniam
Yes, yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Quickly, please. Yeah, yeah. So last is in terms of the contract assets that we report under the other financial assets. So just wanted to understand the nature of this because if I look at our contract assets for last five years, they’ve remained between 100 to 120 days of our revenue, while if I compare that with some of the other product companies as well as service companies that normally ranges between 30 to 50 days. So just wanted to understand the accounting treatment and the nature of this.
Vasudha Subramaniam
Generally in a product company, it will be quite difficult to have it between 30 days and all. So it will be quite high because the accrual happens as and when we complete the deliverable milestones, whereas the invoicing will happen only when we kick-in the payment milestone, only when we meet the payment milestone. So the gap will always be there in many product companies. So that’s the reason for the 120 day.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. And related to that, what is the normal deal cycle once we sign and once we close and the revenue is booked.
Vasudha Subramaniam
And the moment see all those deal wins that you are seeing this quarter, you have some approval in the books.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Vasudha Subramaniam
We report deal wins, whatever deal wins that you see as-reported during the quarter, we have accrued against all of them this quarter itself. So between signing — signing and approval, there will not be much of a time.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. Okay. Thanks, sir. Thanks a lot.
Praveen Malik
Thank you, Meet. Next we have Mr Vive Kumar for best call. Quickly ask your question.
Vivek Kumar
Audible sir?
Arun Jain
Yes, audible.
Vivek Kumar
Sir, my question is regarding, if you see the last two years, our pipeline is growing at much faster growth rate than our revenue even if you take-away jump. So someday — and with Trump winning and yields falling and financial — if you see the bank stocks, I understand it’s a really superficial comparison, but people are positive about banks investing in tech and all-in US. So because are you confident about this pipeline converting because even in the last quarter, you mentioned why many deals are getting stuck at a stage where and things are most taking time to move. So do we — those pipeline is growing at a faster rate than our revenue so that’s my question. Maybe I if I make — I think I made it clear. So will we see the same growth rate translating into revenues?
Arun Jain
Obviously, that’s what we are saying Q4 will be much better. I mentioned in the previous answer.
Vivek Kumar
So we can go back to, 15% 20% from next year, we can hope that. I’m not asked per guidance, but those pipeline.
Arun Jain
And we have a good pipeline and I think the first pipeline to closure, it’s a cycle time of 12 months. So when we went to marketplace, we are putting to Europe and Americas. So now if you look at it, Europe and Americas, both market — Americas will be INR600 crore market. As of now, Europe will be another INR600 crores. So we have a potential for these markets to become INR1,000 crore market, both the marketing could be INR1,000 crore market in next four years. So — and then we have a Middle-East market, which could be — Middle-East and Africa could be INR800 crore market, APAC and ANZ could be INR800 market, India is the INR100 crore market. So this is a kind of a landscape we are planning to expand and we are quite confident of meeting some of the expectation which you have because there is a delay cycle between when pipeline gets built and there is a six months delay from the pipeline to the closure.
Vivek Kumar
So on general what the receivables can you throw like have we got from government and any opinion on that? Any comment?
Arun Jain
No comment. Government is government. Thank you. Government is government. So they are delaying the process right now. We have to look at it what we can do.
Vivek Kumar
Oh, thank you, sir. Thank you very much everyone.
Arun Jain
Yeah.
Praveen Malik
Thank you, Vivek. Next. Next we have Mr Manoj from Geometric. MR..
Manoj Dua
Am I audible, sir?
Praveen Malik
Yes. Please go on.
Manoj Dua
Okay. So, sir, last few years, we have seen AI as one of the greatest technological innovation. You are very earlier that as an individual, we are now understanding the importance of that and trying to learn. So I know is more than a software, we have a relationship, we know the exact detail of banking and insurance and knowledge of the industry. Now if you see AI is helping us to create a product more cheaper and anyone who is a beginner in this industry or a new, is it our advantage for them to build a product more cheaper as we have talked a lot about earlier that we have spent so many hours to build a product. But at the same time, it could be useful to you to build further new things. Can you throw some light on it just as a school kid to explain to me because we are not a computer person.
Arun Jain
So there are two things about the enterprise-grade product in banking. For large corporations like HSBC, HSD, Bank, AI can help facilitate reducing some of the treasury work to build a product. But fundamental product is not just coding, it’s about entire lifecycle of saying, can I build a car? Can I build a Mercedes car? Obviously, it requires much more than a Mercedes building requires much more than just a assembling the car, which could be done differently over here. So I think AI will have a two-f asset of it. How do I use AI to reduce my cost or to reduce the efforts for implementation to become more competitive in the market. That’s the one facet which we are doing. Manish is leading that initiative of applying AI within Intellect for further standing. From a moat perspective that other people can build the product fast enough, I feel that in enterprise-grade space, it’s a long way to go for anybody unless they have a deep domain understanding — substantial domain understanding to make the right product for the customer because AI gives you a 95% right, 96% right, 92% right. But for enterprise yet solution, we need 110% right, not 100% right. So that’s the difference between the two of them.
Manoj Dua
Okay. And how now AI is an advantage to you going further that you answered my first part, how being in terms of reducing cost, whatever you have or building because you have already a domain knowledge, how fast can you accelerate new products or something like that.
Arun Jain
Yeah. So it will definitely decrease the cost. We have targets to reduce our headcount for efficiency of AI efficiency, which is there. That’s the one part of it. But second part is more interesting for the investor is we can build a business, if you can go back to the call of 18 December, which is published on our website and that’s where we are putting a complete AI, purple fabric as a product in the market, which we are first-in the market for the AI as a product, which we are selling to many enterprise in the world. So please go through that script that will be useful for you to understand.
Manoj Dua
Thank you. My last question is, as we are increasing TAM and building products, so I understand the lot of new cost is being incurred and what our operating margin which are mature product through — the cash-flow throws, we are not able to capture that. As you said, that INR800 crore will come from this INR400 INR5,000 crore can come in four, five years. How much operating margin we can see from a — where the expenses which help us to grow are little bit reduced or comes at normal pace? How to look at that part, not I’m asking for operating margin next year of 4, 5 pive year period. I don’t know whether at that time what we will be doing, just a color on that to understand how much cash can come at that period.
Arun Jain
So Manoj, the matured product gives a margin of 30% plus. So like GTB as a business, if you have a separate business, that will give 30% plus margin. Then GCB will be less margin, then AI will be less margin. That’s how the whole construct is constructed, book is constructed for as a portfolio book. So whenever the product gets matured significantly, it start going up to 40% margin and product — its product level itself. So that’s how the four-year horizon we are looking at it, getting to 30% margin can be expected in four years time window.
Manoj Dua
That was helpful. Thank you and best of luck.
Praveen Malik
Thank you, Mr. Next we have Mr Pankaj from Affluent assets. MR. Pankaj from Affluent assets.
Pankaj Bobade
Thanks. Am I audible, sir?
Praveen Malik
Yeah. Yeah.
Pankaj Bobade
Well, sir, just wanted to understand we have almost all the products launched and in the market. So how soon do you expect to reach sales revenue of around $0.5 billion and margins of upwards of 20%?
Arun Jain
Four years.
Pankaj Bobade
Okay, sure. And the second thing regarding this C1, is this acquisition margin-accretive or dilutive?
Arun Jain
Yeah. Initially, it will be dilutive. Overall, it will be accretive. With the cross-sell opportunities, it will be accretive. Individually it may be dilutive.
Pankaj Bobade
Okay. Thank you. Thank you sir.
Praveen Malik
Thank you. Next we have Ruchita Cardi from iWealth. Ruchita, please unmute yourself and ask the question. are you there Ruchita from iWealth. Please unmute yourself.
Rucheeta Kadge
Hello. Hello. Yeah. Yeah, please go on-top. Hello. Yeah. So good evening. So my question was on the purple Fabric platform. So just if I have missed it, is our POC done already? Hello?
Arun Jain
Hello, yeah. POC is a full already. It’s been in boot camp. So we’ll forward you the link of this full system. Full. Investor call is there. Praveen, can you forward him for the full call?
Rajesh Saxena
Product is in the product? Yeah, the product is being used by many customers, both in North-America and in UK.
Rucheeta Kadge
Hello sorry I kind of missed recurring your dancer there’s some technical issue. Can you please repeat it like? Is the POC done?
Rajesh Saxena
So this is a live platform. It is operating in — if you look to the December thing, which was attended by almost 100 investors, you can go through the script and it will tell you that the platform, which has evolved over the years is fully functional. Many pieces of that are already being used by customers in North-America as well as in UK and few other customers in different geographies. But it is primarily up and running. So there’s no POC. It’s not like — not like the platform is not live.
Rucheeta Kadge
Okay, okay. Understood. Understood. Thank you.
Praveen Malik
Thanks,. Next, Mr looks like he has left. Ram has left. Next we have Mr Nandu from Edelweiss.
Prolin Nandu
Hi, ji, I’m audible?
Praveen Malik
Yeah, yeah please go.
Prolin Nandu
Yeah I have three questions. So Arunji, firstly, on your comment that from Q4 FY ’25, we should be at INR800 crores revenue, right?
Arun Jain
No, no revenue. I’m not said.
Prolin Nandu
Sorry, sorry. I’m sorry. My back. Right. So is that the base now going ahead or would it be from — so how — I mean, should that be your new normal?
Arun Jain
No, no, no. Yes, we are seeing this for full-year, some of the deals got postponed in this quarter as well. So this will — this quarter will be — definitely Q4 will be much better quarter. We are not giving guidance to it, but I’m saying we are looking for 20% growth year-on-year, that trajectory, we want to keep it whether 15%, 16%, 18% those are the number which we look at it as a trajectory.
Prolin Nandu
Understood,. So my larger question was that you know one of the reason why we stopped giving guidance was because of these deal delays, right, and we were probably targeting larger deals. So when will you get that confidence back of giving guidance and this is not from a guidance perspective, but from a clarity on pipeline perspective, I’m asking this question. Is it still a bit of delays which are going on in the system or now that pipeline is declocked? How do you see that?
Arun Jain
And let me just want to clarify that point to you. The guidance is because these deals are very large values in enterprise space. If deal value is $5 million, it switched the revenue and ratio last 12 months numbers are more predictable. So if you — somebody talk to me for next four years where we will be reaching, we are saying we can be INR4,000 crores in next four years. That is a very easy for me to answer it. But when you say what will be the next 90 days, I cannot say what next 90 days. Next 90 day, we are saying this Q4 is definitely looking close to INR700 crores. But whether all the quarters will be of that baseline, we love to have it. Let’s see how much we can able to do it.
Prolin Nandu
Sure. That’s understood. Second question is on this AI and you will be using internally also AI to see and I think in the purple fabric call also you mentioned that probably you won’t be adding more employees, right, maybe right. So — and I want to link this comment of yours to the margin guidance, right, where in some of the past calls, you have guided for this 30% trajectory a lot sooner, right, maybe next six to eight quarters is what you had guided for. And so internal-use of AI, can this accelerate the growth of margin towards that 30% aspiration is what I want to understand?
Arun Jain
Yeah, definitely. That’s the whole objective. Manish, you want to highlight? Manish.
Manish Maakan
Sorry, I missed that. Could you please repeat that, sorry.
Arun Jain
Then AI will help you reducing the cost and margin improvings.
Manish Maakan
No, good. Now I think two things. One is, we’ve experienced good success with Purple Fabric by embedding that in as we build-out our applications and those are things which in Banesh has been talking to about it. I think the inspiration we’ve taken from that is to internally put that in use to automate of how software engineering is done. So it’s look at the four stages of a software lifecycle, an engagement with a customer, the build, the validation and migration. Step one, we are looking at the entire build cycle, how do we bring in significant productivity. Next will be how do we the validation cycle, how do we bring in significant productivity. The two ends of working with the customer and migrating, those will be in the second phase we will take at. So over next two quarters, we focused on the middle two legs of driving engineering using this as well as validation using AI.
Arun Jain
The margin obviously will go up because if you’re not hiring more people, so it’s a obvious corollary that it will — if I’m growing even margin by-10 — revenue by 10%, margin will grow by 20% here.
Prolin Nandu
Right. So then in that sense, maybe that three to four years timeline of 30%, you would, I mean, want to probably — I mean, is that more like a conservative kind of a number? Because see, Arunji, if you look at the product companies, right, there is an operating lever. Some of your peers also which are into the company are earning far higher-margin, right, and we are starting from a lower base, right? So is that 30% can be achievable slightly sooner than what you have probably called out earlier in this call?
Arun Jain
We can earlier, but let’s not look at earlier. The point is a product company — like a lot of product companies are not crossed INR1,000 crore numbers. If you look at it, if you have focused on margin, your growth gets stopped. In technology business, your growth is important. So we have a credibility now. We made GTV with just INR1,000 crores. I’m saying we can — we’ll make GCV with INR1,000 crores, then we’ll make AI business INR1,000 crore. How many companies in India have a product business of INR1,000 crores, three businesses of INR1,000 crore nature and that requires investment. If I publish separate numbers of separate margins, you will see the margin of the GDP business is very-high compared to the other businesses.
Prolin Nandu
Sure,, that’s clear. And last question from my side is that in your slide deck on Slide 30, right, where you have probably talked about the funnel, almost INR10,000 crores of the value of the funnel in Q3 FY ’25, do you want to call-out a number out of this which can be attributable to purple Fabric fabric?
Arun Jain
Not right now. As of now we are not separating it.
Prolin Nandu
Okay, okay. But any timeline by which we will be able to give this number will it be a bit a year from now or do you think more –?
Arun Jain
We have a good traction. We have a — where a lot of boot camps happen, we have around 100 different people are in various stages of interest being shown. A lot of service companies are showing interest that they can use. So this is the Purple fabric platform. We are saying Tier-2 and Tier, some of the Tier-1 SIs and Tier-2 SIs, we are giving to them so that they can solve the customer problems. So it’s a platform play, which SIs are feeling very, very interested. Service companies are finding that’s a good way for them to grow their businesses better.
Prolin Nandu
Sure, sure, because they are also you are saying that it’s not a question of when we reach INR1,000 crores, it’s a question of INR1,000 or INR5,000, right? Did I get you correctly? Probably the order book booking might should be happening in the next one year, right? I mean to probably achieve that number, right? Am I correct?
Arun Jain
No, it’s the adoption, revenue number is not the objective for purple fabric. Adoption is. How do we get a 10,000 people using purple fabric will be our first objective. Yeah. This is a platform play not a revenue play in the beginning.
Prolin Nandu
Okay. That’s it from my side. Thank you so much,, and all the very best.
Arun Jain
Yeah. I think. Okay, that’s fine. We can close the call.
Praveen Malik
Thanks. Next Ram has come back again. MR. Ram KV of QFSL. QFSPL. Ram?
Ram KV
Hi, can you hear you?
Praveen Malik
Yeah, yeah, please. Please go ahead.
Ram KV
Thanks., the question is addressed to you. Typically, I have been with the IT product space, so the question is coming from macro point-of-view. So I would just like your thought process on that. We have seen typically in the IT product space that investment goes in, the products become live, volume builds up and then at the end of it, the PAT margin or the gross margin goes up substantially. In Intellect, we have been investing — we have remain invested over the last six, seven years. When do you think in the next three, four years will the tipping point come when PAT will grow up much stronger than what we have seen in the past, especially in the background of 90 mill quarter revenue?
Arun Jain
Sure. That’s what happened. Rami just talked earlier also when you are not on the call that the PAT margins will definitely grow. If you look at the cost structure in last four quarters, it remained around INR475 crore to INR480 crore or INR485 crores and the revenue number is a the only ex — so if it is a INR60 crores to INR7 crore number or you take INR625 crore, that number will be different. As soon as it becomes INR700 crore, the margin will look very, very different. So if you just plot yourself the number or the top-line growth, the margins need not be articulated to you. It will automatically improve. So that’s what I’m saying 30% margin can be possible there. It’s a question of how much we reinvest back into building it. Business one, business two, business three. So now business one has been INR1,000 crore-plus business GTV. Business two is now GCB business will be INR1,000 crore next year. Now we are building AI business into this. So that’s how the margin getting redeployed. It’s not that current business have a bit lower-margin than the other product companies.
Ram KV
That is obvious because the mix will always change, correct?
Arun Jain
Yeah. So the growth at the investor, you have both the things are important from a growth perspective because other product company has become very, very stagnant. If you see many companies doesn’t grow product company — many company doesn’t grow there, just grow the margin, but not the revenue.
Ram KV
Exactly. So I was looking at the base part of it. So my question focused manner is in the next four years, will we see a INR1,000 crore margin vertical,
Manish Maakan
INR1,000 crore margin will be there after four years, definitely.
Arun Jain
If you want to put that in our mouth, we are also looking for INR1,000 crore margin in four years.
Ram KV
Okay, great. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. thank you very much. All the best integrate. Thank you.
Arun Jain
Thank you.
Praveen Malik
Thank you now. Next we have Mr Chirag from Ashika Institutional Equities., are you there?
Chirag Kachhadiya
Yeah. Hello.
Praveen Malik
Please go on Chirak.
Chirag Kachhadiya
Yeah. So I want to know your thought process on-demand environment and outlook from three to four years point-of-view
Arun Jain
Yeah. I have to repeat again, I think Vasuda has told other — because my — because as a part of strategy, would you like to share the market outlook?
Manish Maakan
Yeah. So Chirag, good question, but I guess probably you were not there before. Yes, see, the demand is very much there and which is pretty evident from the pipeline that we have and the outlook also we talked about in the next three to four years, we, Arun also talked about it is to create a $1 billion thing and that’s where we are heading. And just few minutes ago, he just talked about the margin piece also. So I guess you had all the answers. Maybe you just need to just go back and remind a little bit more.
Chirag Kachhadiya
Yeah, I’ll go in again and we see. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, yeah. Okay.
Praveen Malik
Thanks,. Next we have Mr Ryan Floyd from Barca Capital.
Ryan Floyd
There the financial statements on your website? Let’s just start it easy. The financial statements. So you guys are doing an investor presentation or December 2024, where are those financial statements that all of us can see. And this is not the first time that you’ve done a call where it’s very difficult for investors to see the financial statements before the call.
Arun Jain
Right for this quarter?
Ryan Floyd
Yes. For December 2024. It’s not on the website. Where-is the presentation?
Arun Jain
Sent to investors. I think at this point, Nachu, Malik, we need to look at it that when we are loading it’s on the website or not.
Ryan Floyd
It’s not on the website.
Arun Jain
Okay. So there’s a delay in the —
Ryan Floyd
It’s very frustrating. I’m sure I’m not the only one that’s frustrated by this. We’re having a conversation here without knowing what the numbers look like. So let’s do our best here. I think that we went through a bunch of deals, which sounds — which sounds great. Usually when you sign a deal, you’re bringing in revenue, can you give us some rough sense of the revenue growth by segment like license, maintenance, SaaS? And if it went down, can you give us a sense of why those segments went down?
Arun Jain
Yeah. Ron, I think all of that part of the presentation, maybe you want — we’ll put you into investor list of communication.
Ryan Floyd
That’s okay. But let’s talk about it now, please. Yeah. So because we haven’t talked about those things on the call and it seems also seems fairly important.,
Arun Jain
Can you just share the revenue numbers again?
Vasudha Subramaniam
Yeah, sure. So at the way you switch on this if you want to put the presentation or the okay. So let me let me voice out now. Ryan, let me voice out now. Maybe you can even look at it later after it’s been put up on the website. So the breakup of the revenue is like this. For the quarter, I mean, the total revenue as you would have seen, the revenue from operations is INR607 crores, while the total revenue, including other income will be higher. So out of this INR607 crores, we have about INR118 crores for license revenue. SaaS revenues about INR50 crore. AMC is INR124 and implementation is INR315 crores. So you can see some growth maybe for, you want to compare with the previous quarter, there is a growth in the implementation revenue, AMC revenue and also in the SaaS revenue as well as in the license room. So we have grown over the previous quarter in all these segments.
Ryan Floyd
And that is for the quarter, not nine months, that’s for the quarter year-on-year, is that right?
Vasudha Subramaniam
You can last 12 quarter. Yeah, okay. Let me also — okay, even if you compare — yeah, go on
Ryan Floyd
What is the free-cash flow that the — we’ve produced because I think the free-cash flow declined last quarter. This quarter is the free-cash flow margin on revenues higher?
Vasudha Subramaniam
It is higher. It is higher. When I say free-cash flow, it would be as high as close to INR50 crores.
Ryan Floyd
Okay. What is that as a portion of total revenues? So this is after intangibles. This is after leases that we can use for things.
Vasudha Subramaniam
Right. It is after intangibles and after leases, yes.
Ryan Floyd
What is that as a portion of revenue?
Vasudha Subramaniam
Closer to 10 percentage of the revenue?
Ryan Floyd
10%. Okay. And if it’s 10%, that sounds very healthy. So this deal in Canada, can you — it sounds like you guys are buying their operation, which sounds — sounds great that you are looking at M&A. Can you give us some sense of what revenue multiple or approximate revenue multiple you’re paying on this?
Arun Jain
We are not like a very competitive industry right now, Ron. We are not publicly announcing the price we are paying for this acquisition.
Ryan Floyd
Okay. Is it lower than the one at which you’re trading? Could you give us some rough idea?
Arun Jain
It’s much no idea.
Ryan Floyd
Okay, great. But that sounds interesting. Are there more acquisitions that you could make of modular product companies in financial software.
Arun Jain
We want to go slow? Definitely we’d like to look at it as part of this strategy to enter into — so each region, if you would on — now America would have a 200 to North-America would have now 200 customer plus. We would like to have a Europe to also have similar kind of a number of the customers. So we’ll look at its option, but we’ll go step-by-step. As you have observed our company, we are very, very conservative. We — first we build GTV business, then we build GTV business, then we build AI business. We don’t go all-around the business. Our focus is go very pace growth,
Ryan Floyd
Right. If you’re producing free-cash flow to the tune of 10% of revenues, that will leave nice cash that you could potentially make nice acquisitions for. Have you mapped out the — I don’t know, do you have someone or have you mapped out potential companies that in theory you’d like to buy, have you reached out to a bunch or are these inbound deals?
Arun Jain
As of now, acquisition is not a part of our core strategy. AI is keeping us busy. We don’t want to get distracted as a core part of the strategy is inbone only right now.
Ryan Floyd
Okay. And you mentioned on the call, I think that this Canada deal would not be accretive before cross-selling. It seems like what should be a good product. Why — when I hear that, I’m thinking you’re buying something that’s very low-margin. Why would that be the case?
Arun Jain
The current cost structure of the Canada will be higher than the current cost structure of Indian companies. Obviously, it will be any Western acquisition will be value dilutive in the beginning.
Ryan Floyd
Why is that? I mean, there are certainly Western financial services software companies with more than 10% free-cash flow margins.
Arun Jain
Yeah. So different kind of case. So this kind of this acquisition will have a dilutive — margin-dilutive on the overall margin-dilutive. So obviously, we need to build-up the accretion when we sign-up a new credit core banking deals. We want to bring it to the value-accretive indexed 18 to 36 month period.
Ryan Floyd
Okay. And if this is sensitive, you don’t need to answer it, but is this because perhaps the previous owner hadn’t taken price increases that the prices weren’t high enough. Okay, that’s fine, that’s fine. So you have many customers and some have been customers for a really long-time. Sometimes with financial services software companies, the margins can be much higher for a unit of growth than you have. And I’m wondering out of all of your hundreds or maybe even thousands of customers, do you have some that are not profitable? And if so, why? And is there opportunity for you to make them profitable? This is at the free-cash flow level after including working capital changes.
Arun Jain
Ron, just to answer your question, I think I mentioned earlier also the margin question was asked. We have three businesses and we want — our whole business design from 2016 is based on how do we keep a CAGR growth in double-digits. So that’s the whole approach. A lot of time per company gets into the trap of not growing and growing the margin. We want to grow both of it. So we build-up one business and make it a INR1,000 crore business, then reinvest some money and cash flows from there to build-up a second business, then we make INR1,000 crore and then we reinvest back into third business, which is the AI business. So that’s how our journey is progressing. So individually on a GTB as a business, our margins are as comparable to any other product company, which is a long-standing customers.
Ryan Floyd
Right, right. When I look at other financial services software firms with similar revenues, they have higher margins though for the same level of growth.
Arun Jain
Sure. It would just seem that perhaps you have some product.
Ryan Floyd
As of now, the margins are very healthy. But is it possible you have some products where your customers just aren’t paying you enough? You need to increase the prices of those products in order to make it worth your development energy and expense?
Arun Jain
Yeah. There’s always a case. Some products will be more profitable than others, so we’ll look at into that. Thank you for your advice.
Ryan Floyd
All right. Well, thanks for doing the call. I would humbly request that before the calls, the investor presentation and the financial statements are on your website.
Vasudha Subramaniam
It’s now up on the website, Ryan, you can check that out. Sorry for the inconvenience, but it’s now up on the website. You can please refer to that. Thank you.
Ryan Floyd
Okay. You got it.
Praveen Malik
Thank you, Mark. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for attending the call. Then next we have Mr Mukul left. Just close the call and see how many are there for us. Yeah. If something is left, only one question. Then Mr Mukul is not there, is not there. So the last one we can have one Mr Rohit from PMS if he is there/ Rohit, are you there?
Rohit Balakrishnan
Yes, sir, I’m there. Good evening, Sir. So most of the questions have been answered, sir. Just two questions. This C1 deal that we have, so sir, I was just checking their balance sheet that is there on the — in their website for last year. So I think this division is loss-making. So I mean will we also incur — I mean whatever you can share, you already mentioned is margin-dilutive, but will there be losses? Because I’m assuming that cross-selling, et-cetera will be probably will take quite a long-time. So if you can just share maybe what are your thoughts maybe for the next couple of years, how do you think — do you think the margins will sort of recur? I mean because of the —
Arun Jain
It will not be loss-making. So we want to just tell you it’s not loss-making. We didn’t done a deal in a manner that it will not be loss-making for us.
Rohit Balakrishnan
Yeah. Okay. That’s happy to hear, sir. Yeah. And this last question, sir, you already mentioned that INR1,000 crore profits. So this is — I’m four years, I’m not — sir, I’ve been invested for last five years now. So I — and I’ve been tracking you for a long-time. So I understand, sir. Sir. So I just wanted to hope and I mean, I just wanted to reiterate that, sir, like I mean, sir, historically we’ve grown around 15% 16%. So with all what you’ve been doing, I mean, we’ve been investing ahead of the curve. We’ve been trying to invest more and you’ve been articulating this fact that our idea is to keep growing the top-line and keeping — keep on increasing our TAM and keep on increasing the runway. So — and so is there a — and still like — so historically 15% growth has been there. When these things were not there and over the last six, seven years, you’ve invested a lot. So I know this is maybe a bit I mean you’ve been conservative, but what are the things that you are looking at where things can become faster for you, I mean from a revenue growth point-of-view because
Arun Jain
Fabric and digital and BEP, any core banking, I think you take anything, it can have a major blockbuster and we have to just — we remain calm so that we can deliver to our customer high satisfaction. This business is a non-forgiving business. You can’t make a mistake. That’s the only thing we want to protect. Otherwise, my GTV business, GC business, I think the beauty of the business is what we have built-in the past is everything is distinctively story. We have displaced and disrupted the existing competition each time. We disrupted Finistra, we are disrupting Terminos, we are disrupting palantir. We are a company from India disrupting a global player with such a low investment of what we say INR140 crore-plus INR200 crores, INR350 crore. What the investment in terms of global terms, it less than less than $40 million. That’s the power of our powerhouse of our R&D team and our committed team, which we have in is an amazing team.
Rohit Balakrishnan
Sure, sir. So related to that, of course, last — you — I mean, you’ve mentioned the growth has been because of certain delays. So hopefully, sir, I mean, next year should be a better year. You already mentioned Q4 should be better.
Arun Jain
Yeah, yeah. Sure. Sure.
Rohit Balakrishnan
Thank you, sir.
Arun Jain
Thank you, Rohit.
Praveen Malik
Thank you, Rohit. Now we are closing the call and three, four people who have left can write the questions to me so they can answer accordingly. And those also who has once again put their hand, just request them to please write-back to us. And thank you for attending the call today. Sir, now we are closing. Thank you, everybody.