Infibeam Avenues Ltd (NSE: INFIBEAM) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 26, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Vishal Mehta — Chairman and Managing Director
Vishwas Patel — Joint Managing Director
Sunil Bhagat — Chief Financial Officer
B Ravi
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Rajat Gupta — Analyst
Deepesh Sancheti — Analyst
Aman — Analyst
Grishma Shah — Analyst
Tushar Sarda — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen. Kattya. And welcome to the Infibim Avenues Limited Q4 and FY25 conference call host hosted by Coindia Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing then zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajat Gupta from Goindia Advisors. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Rajat Gupta — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you. Rutaja. Good evening everyone and welcome to Infibeam Avenues Limited earnings call to discuss the Q4 and FY25 results. We have on the call with us today Mr. Vishal Mehta, Chairman and Managing Director. Mr. Vishwas Patel, Joint Managing Director and Mr. Sunil Bhagat, Chief Financial Officer. Also joining us on the call today is Mr. B. Ravi who is joining. Who’s advising Infibeam on corporate and financial strategy, an independent consultant. We must remind you that the discussion on today’s call may include certain forward looking statements and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces.
I now request Mr. Vishal Mehta to take us through the company’s business outlook and financial highlights. Subsequent to which we’ll open the floor for Q and A. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Vishal Mehta — Chairman and Managing Director
Thank you, Rajat. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us. I am thrilled to welcome you to Infibeam Avenue’s Q4 and FY25 earnings call. It’s a milestone moment as we close the year of an extraordinary transformation. And we look ahead to an even more ambitious future. FY25 has been a defining year of transformation for Infibeam Avenues. It was not just a year of growth. It was a year where we redefined who we are. We evolved from being a digital payments company into a multi vertical technology powerhouse operating at intersection of fintech tech, artificial intelligence and digital infrastructure.
I’m happy to announce that we have achieved our financial guidance for the year. We’ve delivered a robust growth across all our key metrics. Our consolidated gross revenue for FY25 stood at 3,993 crores reflecting a significant increase from previous year. Our net revenue reached 526crores and our profit after tax surged to 210crores marking a 42% year over year growth. We are strengthening our capital base for future growth. To fuel our ambitious growth plans, our board has approved up to 700 crores of rights issue. This capital infusion will accelerate our strategic initiative including one Rediff Pay we are rolling out to our customer facing digital payments platform.
Second is Infibeam Quantum Edge expanding our AI and data center infrastructure and third is international expansion scaling our payments infrastructure in key markets. The rights issue will underscore our commitment to inclusive value creation allowing our existing shareholders to participate meaningfully in our next phase of growth. We are happy to announce that we have redefined our brand identity. We have unveiled a new logo and a brand identity that encapsulates our vision to lead at the confluence of fintech, AI and digital infrastructure. The dynamic ribbon like design infused with vibrant hues symbolizes agility, innovation and digital connectivity.
The distinctive dot on the I in Infibeam represents our India first philosophy, reaffirming our dedication to nation development through homegrown digital infrastructure and technology innovation. We have revolutionized payment Merchant payments with CC Avenue Soundbox. Our CC Avenue Soundbox has gained significant traction among retailers across India. This device offers dynamic QR generation, tap to pay features, Omni channel integration and compatibility with ERPs and social commerce platforms. In Q4 we onboarded about 50,000 new merchants bringing our total merchant base to over 1.2 million. We are empowering consumers with Redif Pay. Our subsidiary company rediff.com India Limited has been granted a third party application provider license which is called the TPAP License by NPCI for our digital payments platform Rediff Pay.
This license enables us to offer UPI services marking our formal entry into consumer facing digital payment sector. Rediff Pay is not just about payments, it’s a gateway to broader digital financial services ecosystem including credit, insurance and wealth management solutions. We are also introducing Redif1 for SMBs which is small and medium businesses. Rediff1, which is our cloud based enterprise suite for small businesses and merchants, integrates erp, CRM, HRMS tools for our payments platform providing a comprehensive digital operating system for India’s underserved small and medium businesses segment. We are scaling internationally in the GCC region. Our expansion in Saudi Arabia is well underway.
We have gone live with key clients such as VFS Global, Nissan and Infinity. We are also in active conversations with other large enterprise accounts Our PTSP license from SAMA and locally hosted infrastructure provides us regulatory readiness and operational scalability. We anticipate international revenues to comprise about 20 to 25% of our top line over the next couple of years. We have pioneered Agentic AI with Phononetic AI. Under our dedicated AI division, Phonetic AI, we are developing a groundbreaking global marketplace for artificial intelligence agents. This platform will enable developers, enterprises and everyday users to build, buy, sell and operate autonomous AI agents without writing a single line of code.
We believe agentic AI is the next major technology shift and we are positioning ourselves at the forefront of this transformation. We are launching Infibeam Quantum Edge. Our Quantum Edge initiative involves deploying small scale distributed data centers starting with a 2 megawatt unit and these centers will host our AI frameworks and support real time computing use cases. With an expected ROI under 24 months, we already have demand visibility for upcoming locations. In summary, we are building a future ready ecosystem as India progresses towards a 3.5 trillion digital payments economy by 2029 and with Cloud infrastructure demand surging, our integrated approach of fintech AI and cloud positions us uniquely to lead and innovate.
Our strategy focuses on building enduring platforms with scale, stickiness and superior economics over time. Thank you all for your continued support. I will now hand over the call to Vishwas Patel to walk us through payments, business and operational highlights for the quarter. Vishwas, all yours.
Vishwas Patel — Joint Managing Director
Thanks Vishal and good afternoon to everyone on the call. Q4FY25 was nothing short of exhilarating for a payment business. Despite intense competition in the Indian digital payment space, Infimum avenues powered ahead, innovating relentlessly, scaling faster and strengthening our presence across both Indian and the Middle Eastern markets. The CC Avenue Smart Soundbox has been launched to disrupt merchant payments. So let’s start with one of the biggest success story for us this year. The CC Avenue Smart Sound box. This isn’t just a QR code speaker or a full blown it’s a full blown fintech device, dynamic QR tap to pay card cards, nfc, audio, transaction alerts in multiple languages, all directly integrated with our CC Avenue Merchant accounting and reporting platform.
In essence, the people who are just using a bland speaker box today are graduating to accept all kinds of payments through our CC Avenue Smart Soundbox. So what’s exciting is that the adoption is surging across tier 2 and 3 cities where merchants are hungry for simple and powerful tools that consolidated multiple payment options in one sleek device. And since now the lines between the online and offline are blurring and it’s an omnichannel solution. So today we have aggressively onboarded over 1 10,000 new merchants in this Q4 alone taking a total merchant base to 1.2 million.
We are adding thousands of merchants daily and are focused in India’s long tail. MSME is unlocking immense value and volume smartphones as card machines. So we have introduced CC Avenue Tapay. It’s a bold step towards democratic democratizing payments Tap a within our mobile app. So from now any Android phone has become a contactless card terminal no additional hardware required. This is game changing and for micro entrepreneurs and gig workers offering them a frictionless low cost path to digital acceptance of all kind of payment of be it UPI or cards. So using CC Avenue online payments we are powering conversions globally.
Online CC Avenue remains a high performing engine constantly evolving. In Q4 we integrated Google Pay and for our Gulf operations we have added Tabby and Tamara Buy Now Pay later options in that market. Meeting the region’s rising demand for flexible payments. These additions are driving higher checkout success rates and boosting merchant sales. CC Avenue is India’s leading digital debit processor so we continue to lead as India’s largest direct debit processors. With the onboarding of Basin Catholic Operative bank we now support direct debit through over 60 plus banks. A testament to our deeper banking relationship as well as our innovation to connect two direct core banking solutions of so many banks.
CCME GCC expansion, you know Saudi market taking off so our international strategy is gaining serious momentum. In Saudi Arabia we are now live with marquee clients like BFS Global, Nissan Infinity Motors and it’s backed by Sama that the Saudi author Saudi Authority Monetary Authority Saudi Arabia Monetary Authority approved PTHP license and fully local infrastructure. This is about big names, it’s about recurring volume that we are building and a merchant pipeline in sectors like aviation, E commerce and government is rapidly growing in that region. Saudi Arabia, UAE and Oman are now our core growth territories. We are investing aggressively to win them.
We had a record merchant acquisition. As explained earlier, it’s a multi sector expansion. In Q4FY25 we added 1 10,000 merchants and for the full year we grossed 4 20,000 new merchant onboardings. That is up 35% compared to financial year 24. So from hospitality to business, healthcare to logistics to real estate to MSMEs, our omnichannel strategy blending online offline and billing continues to resonate and especially with the unserved small and mid sized businesses. Upbill Avenue solution is targeting digital utility payments and deep rural penetration Abeel Avenue platform process over 12 crore transactions in FY25 with the volume climbing steadily in Q4, what remarkable is the growing agent activity in rural and semi urban areas.
A reflection of our platform simplicity and massive bill coverage. We are making digital utility payments truly universal. Our reserve solution is empowering hospitality with AI in hospitality. Tech Reserve is picking out PACE integrated AI based revenue optimization tools that helps hotels fine tune pricing pricing and maximize occupancy. Our transaction volumes in this vertical rose by over 28% year on year and we are working closely with hotlink chains to expand the rollout of smart pricing features. So in summary we are building an intelligent scalable payments ecosystem and at the heart of it is an unwavering strategy omnichannel AI enhanced infrastructure backed fintech solutions that grow with the merchants.
Whether it’s hardware like Soundbox or mobile features like CC Avenue Tap A or enterprise tools like a CC avenue Mars or B2B solutions, we are creating a payment stack that is future ready and deeply embedded in the India and GCC digital fabric. And as Vishal said, while we are front loading investments in AI radif and cloud infrastructure, these are strategic long term bets that will create strong defensible moat around our businesses. With that I’ll now hand it over to our CFO Sunil Bhagat who will take you through the financial performance of the quarter. Over to you Suril Bhai.
Sunil Bhagat — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Viswa sir and good evening to everyone. I am pleased to share the financial highlights for the fourth quarter and full year. FY25. In quarter four we delivered solid double digit growth in both gross and net revenue which is supported by balanced mix of gross and net revenue and both recorded healthy growth on a year over year basis. Our expansion in online and offline payment volumes, deeper penetration across MSMEs and rapid merchant onboarding were the key contributors. Our net take rate continues to trend upward reflecting stronger monetization, favorable merchant mix and effective pricing strategies across our platforms.
This improvement directly fuels our growth in net revenue and operating profitability making our growth not just faster but smarter. For quarter four our gross revenue saw an impressive growth increasing from Rupees 716 crore in quarter four FY24 to 1160 crore in quarter four FY25 reflecting a strong upward trajectory. Our net revenue also showed a notable year over year increase of 28% rising from 105 crore to 135 crore in this quarter. Our net take rate continued its upward trajectory improving significantly year over year from 9.2 basis points in Quarter 4 FY24 to 10.6 basis points in Q4 FY25.
This steady enhancement in take rate has been a key contributor to the growth in our net revenue, operating profitability and bottom line performance. Our EBITDA for the quarter saw a growth of 25% reaching to 78 crore in Q4FY25 up which is up from 62 crore in the same period last year. With our ebitda margin of 58%. As a percentage of net revenue, our profit after tax stood at 50 crore in quarter 4 FY 2025 which is reflecting a 53% year over year increase increase if we consider the full full financial years Full year Financial year for full financial year 25 our gross revenue show an impressive growth increasing from 3150 crore to 3993 crore in FY25 which is reflecting 27% increase.
Our full year net revenue also showed a year over year increase of 25% rising from 419 crore to 526 crore. Our full year EBITDA also saw a growth of 23% reaching to 312 crore in FY25 as against 254 crore in last year. Our annual profit after tax stood at 210 crore in FY25 reflecting 42% year over year growth. Though the revenue from Saudi Arabia is only starting to show up in this quarter’s numbers, we anticipate a meaningful uplift in FY26 as large clients like VFS Globals and Nissan and others can ramp up volumes. With local infrastructure in place and compliance secured, we are poised for accelerated growth in the region.
We have maintained a strong cash rich balance sheet with prudent capital management. As we prepare for FY26 we are finalizing plans to strategically invest in expanding our data center infrastructure under the Infibim Quantum Edge initiative, a move that will enhance our AI capabilities and long term cost advantages. In closing, FY25 was a year of building momentum and laying a scalable foundation and as we step into FY26 we remain focused on expanding our merchant base across India as well as gcc. Escalating monetization through AI powered platforms, strengthening recurring revenue streams across verticals. We are committed to profitable growth and long term value creation not just for today’s market but for the digital economy of tomorrow.
With that, I would like to hand over the call to moderator for question and answers. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the Touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may Press Star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Dipesh Sanchetti from many of finance. Please go ahead.
Deepesh Sancheti
Hi, am I audible?
operator
Yes, you are. Please go ahead.
Deepesh Sancheti
Yeah. Okay. Now my first question is regarding the NP Beam, Quantum edge and Tonotics AI. What is the pricing model, subscription and consumption base or bundle or is it bundled with a fintech service? I mean, where do you see the biggest early monetization opportunities?
Vishal Mehta
Sure, this is Vishal, I’ll take this. See, basically if you recollect, a few quarters ago we decided to build out VLLM models, which is video large language models and that particular opportunity was catered towards two basic areas. One is hospitality and gas stations where AI is not just able to identify an object, but AI can actually identify a scene and identify even activities within the scene. A typical example of this would be that in a gas station if there is a video LLM model sitting with CCTV cameras, then it cannot just identify which vehicle has come.
It can also perhaps get information from dispensation data on gas stations, on how much fuel has been filled and it can perhaps work with wallets to be able to take the money out of the wallet without actually a requirement for a QR code or any other card type. Similarly, in hospitals also it was perhaps used to monitor certain patients, critical care patients, more with visual representations and specifically in areas where you would perhaps have one hospital agent caring over multiple patients, specifically in ICUs. So that was the basic use case and it was an enterprise solution.
That enterprise solution we were able to secure more than a million dollar contract. It was good, but we thought that it was still an enterprise scale enterprise sale, which means that we had to spend an effort. Fortunately we did apply for a patent there and we were able to apply for the patent in uspto. So the monetization model was an enterprise sale model which was sitting on top of existing infrastructure with no reason or no requirement to change any hardware, which means the existing hardware, whatever disks, whatever hardware has been utilized, no changes in any hardware, and using a screen share we will be able to pick up all this information and that is what our patent application was.
So the big differentiator there we made was that you don’t need to have any hardware, dedicated hardware or change in hardware specifically Even in practically any DRM or anything that you choose. Beyond that, we started working on an agentic AI framework. An agentic AI framework is more around being able to have agents monitor rather than humans monitoring specific activities. And that is where we think the larger opportunity lies. Because if you build agentic AI capability positions, Infibeam is not just a fintech company, but an AI first fintech infrastructure provider, something that very few in India or in fact in certain cases Middle east and many other geographies are doing at scale.
So the model, there is, there is a business, there is an enterprise model and a consumer model developer. It’s a developer platform. So developers can develop their own agent and then they can deploy the agent for their own use cases or somebody else’s use cases. And if you look at online, there is an enterprise pricing model which will come. It’s in beta, it’s rolled out in beta. So there’s an enterprise pricing model and then there’s consumer model. Consumer model is for a certain number of queries, it’s free, beyond which the consumer starts paying for it.
Deepesh Sancheti
Okay, so can you show some more light on the agent thing, as in, will that be a model which will be available to everyone or as you said, that it will be available for the consumers only for a fixed number of queries.
Vishal Mehta
For free? Yes. So which means that, you know, for certain number of queries for the consumer, developer will own the model, which means that it’s a developer platform. If you are a software developer, or even if you’re not a software developer, if you’re a, if you, you can actually deploy, install and deploy the model practically in a matter of a few clicks. A few of the models have been deployed on redf agents.redif.com so in other words, you can think of it as every skill of a human being is actually an agent. You can think of it as an SEO agent, a legal agent.
Everything is an agent. And theoretically we believe that that is the way the world is going towards. So what we have done is we have not, rather than creating agents, we have created a developer platform where developers can create Agen. And even if you are not a developer, you will be able to build your own agent. You can try it out as well. As of today, it’s in beta, but you can build out your own agent. And then of course, upon approval, once it’s approved, it will go into a marketplace, which is the REDF marketplace.
It can be implemented in any marketplace, practically speaking, as long as we are integrated into that marketplace.
Deepesh Sancheti
So who Will having this agent, will it be a property of Rediff or will it be a property of the developer?
Vishal Mehta
Developer will own the property. REDF is a publisher. So in other words, when consumer starts paying for that service, that is when in typical marketplace does get revenues out of that. So in other words, the property, the agent is a property of the developer and the developer platform.
Deepesh Sancheti
Right. So how does Redis monetize this when.
Vishal Mehta
The consumer starts paying beyond a certain queries or if an enterprise wants the agent to be able to summarize emails or because Rediff is a large enterprise client and they’ve got thousands of companies. And if the agent is deployed within the email client for an enterprise to do many more activities, including device management and others, that’s when Rediff gets paid.
Deepesh Sancheti
Okay, so it’s not possible that a developer develops his own agent and takes it out of Rediff.
Vishal Mehta
That is not they can do that, but there is different commercials for that. So the development platform has to work. Developer platform will work with developer to to enable that.
Deepesh Sancheti
Okay, so.
Vishal Mehta
In this case will work with the developer to enable it.
Deepesh Sancheti
Okay, great. And do you envision B2B2C embedded financial model through your merchant base offering credit to end users or vendors, merchants on your platforms? What is the infrastructure which will be required to support this?
Vishal Mehta
If the question is that are we enabling credit using our merchant base? Is that the question or
Deepesh Sancheti
yes Yes. And what infrastructure will be required for that?
Vishal Mehta
See, I will tell you. You know what we do today is express settlement. So we do early settlements on payments. That is as far as it goes, because we did more than a billion dollars, we had zero NPA in that, which means that a merchant, rather than getting paid after three days, they get the same day that has been enabled. What we have not done is extended loans and credits and others to merchants. Because that model today in India, the way it exists, is a DSA model where you earn commission as a provider. We do not have any aspiration to build our own nbfc.
And we think that the DSA model is an interesting model, but it’s not the one that we want to bet on. So what we think is that using REDF as a consumer framework, we will enable a lot of services, financial services, both to businesses as well as consumers. And access to that will because we have millions of merchants, we build out an ecosystem using that. So we’ll be announcing quite a few things along with REDF pay shortly. We have NPCI license, the DPAP license through NPCI and we think that maybe in the next few weeks, pending approvals from the application and security will be able to roll out and you will be able to communicate a lot more.
Deepesh Sancheti
Okay, so are we also looking at something like UPI credit? I mean UPI is everybody upi, but UPI credit, wherein you know, a customer can get a credit over his UPI payment, you know that, that is really gaining momentum. So I mean, will that be an opportunity which you’ll be looking at?
Vishwas Patel
Okay, so UPI on credit, there’ll be various people who will be offering credit looking at the upi. So we as aggregate on the CCI payments platform, we will be, we will be integrating or will be allowing credit on upi. And there’s a commercial model coming in with every transaction that comes in. So credit on upi, there are some MDR and some money comes on to us. So we have to enable it as a payment option across our merchant network in a sense that today where we have enabled UPI across a million plus merchants there will allow not only rupee on upi, rupee credit card on upi, but even this credit on UPI which the other third party people are with.
So we are going to act as an aggregator to earn on this. Whether starting our own credit business on upi, allowing it on our books right now, there is no immediate strategy in this quarter or the next.
Deepesh Sancheti
Okay, great. Now my question, my last question actually was regarding the fundraise plan which we are trying to do. One was that, you know, we already have good cash amount in our books. So why this fundraiser? Are we building a watch list for future acquisitions or something big in rigorous or any other thing? And secondly then why, if you’re doing this, why rights issue. Because you will be issuing the rights issue at a discount over the current market price which will again increase the dilution.
Vishal Mehta
Yeah, so this is Vishal here. See, we think that, you know, building, you know, a capability, you know, positions in Fibeam in a very different, you know, set up. You’re right, we do have cash position. But we believe that if you want to be meaningful and relevant for the future, as well as build out AI first fintech, you know, infrastructure, something very few people are getting it into, you know, and we’ve seen early success in that. So what we are not doing, I’ll tell you is we’re not building LLMs. We are not building large language models, something that, you know, sovereign and others want to do as well as large companies like you know, OpenAI and others, they want to participate in our cloud.
We are not building LLMs. What we will be doing is working on agenting AI and reasoning models. Reasoning models that sit on top that potentially are the input to the AI agents. And that is where we find that there’s hopefully a lot more interest and monetization associated with. And for that we will build out our infrastructure. So we believe that, you know, we will be investing in CapEx. There will be a CapEx, we’ll invest about $100 million in the next three years in building out such capabilities and partially it will come from rights and partially through accruals.
And we believe that that is the only way we can build out an ecosystem which is autonomous intelligent decision making. It will require certain. These things will be required in building out global fintech adaptability that we are building out and it will scale our productivity and automation. So all of these are critical for our ambitions to become somewhat a global powered fintech setup. And you know, we think that building out this quote unquote what you said war chest will help us get there. So as you know in the past also we have been appropriately conservative.
We think that there’s a lot of opportunity in front of us and partially if you are not AI first company, you won’t survive in the next few years with this thesis. We think we are not, we are not saying we are right or wrong. This is just our philosophy and we think that this is the right time to get invested into a CAPEX cycle to build it out.
Deepesh Sancheti
Yeah. Okay. And so we are not building any data centers. We won’t need any data centers for ourselves. Right? Will we require.
Vishal Mehta
No, we are building, we already have a 2 megawatt data center for building out reasoning models. You’ll need, you know, infra, you will need, you know, certain, you know, investments in infra. Either you can lease it or you can, you can build it. So depending upon that we build out 2 megawatt, we’ll build out more as and then depending upon because see these models and agents, they’ll want certain use cases are said that they want real time and they will sit on top of an LLM. An LLM can potentially be replaced in the back end.
Either way, either you can use an open AI or you can use, you can use any other even the one that has been recently built out by server. So in other words you can essentially. This sits on top of it and it essentially enables because the data is owned by the reasoning models and not you know, the LLMs in some ways to drive and agents automate the workflow. They also make it More predictive because that is the one which gives you productivity. It automates whatever workflow that you want to work on. It will automate it for you.
And so this is not just automation, it is more predictability along with automation, which is what we want to get into. And like you mentioned for payments and others, of course we are going to deploy it for our own use cases. Because if you think about it, you would want in some ways agenting AI to automate fraud detection, manage risk, authenticate users, adapt new threats without any constant human intervention that we’d require right now, it somewhat helps reduce our operating cost. Whether you think about merchants, it can power certain personalized recommendation, dynamic pricing. We have 10 million plus merchants.
Cross border becomes more interesting. You can automate certain tasks like handling compliance, localization languages. It gives us a strategic edge over traditional processors. And when we think about REDF as an ecosystem, it also gives us an opportunity to serve agents as virtual assistants. It will proactively manage data, transform productivity. It becomes somewhat proactive than reactive. And you essentially drive a continuous learning curve across the entire ecosystem. So we believe it’s a strategic differentiator both in the short and long term.
Deepesh Sancheti
Okay, so phonetics AI will not only do financials, but also into different, different other aspects also. Right?
Vishal Mehta
Right, Absolutely, absolutely. All agents, even you, you can think there’s an SEO agent right here. Search engine optimization is an agent.
Deepesh Sancheti
Right. So then we, I mean, what if it makes, you know, strategic sense to actually, you know, disinvest the company into two things. One is into payment, that is a ccr, any part on the other is into the AI, which is going to be the hardcore layer. Will it make sense just like what we did?
Vishal Mehta
You know, it’s a good question, something that we debate on all the time, but I think the answer is very clear. AI is actually a horizontal layer. It is not a specific layer for a particular. So you can think of any. We can see a world where even a single agent can be a billion dollar agent. If you ask me, maybe in three to five years. There is one agent which is so good at doing what they’re doing that potentially is used by everyone. And so we don’t think that, you know, AI is as much of a vertical because most of the AI models, general AI models, become more and more smarter and better.
So the vertically I kind of vanishes. And in certain cases, to reduce infra cost and so on and so forth, you’ll have to build out rags to be able to make them slightly more optimal and somewhat more Interesting. But we don’t think that that is a verticalized approach. That would not work. It’s a horizontal layer. It’s not a vertical layer.
operator
Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Sachet, may we request you to please rejoin the queue. We have other participants waiting for the turn. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aman from Incred Capital. Please go ahead.
Aman
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations to the management for good set of results. My first question was as we are targeting a 20 to 25% revenue from our international operations over two years. What proportion of this is expected from high volume, low margin business and versus our high margin value added service.
Vishal Mehta
Aman. A lot of it we think will come from at least this year will come from high volume, low margin. Fortunately in international the margins, low margins itself is slightly higher than our margins here in India. So in other words, the net, the take rate over there international is almost two times more of what we get in India. Now even if we go with high volume and low margins, we expect that there will be a drop in the take rate internationally because when we add large clients we would work with lower margins. The good thing in this is that we are also expanding across smaller merchants in that geography through by ways of aggregation as well as through indirect channels.
So we believe that there will be some compromise in terms of margins but it will still be higher than what we make in India.
Aman
Okay, sir. And next was, I mean a follow up like with Saudi Arabia that is, I mean ramping up. It’s, you know, in terms of enterprise clients like Nissan and VFS going live. What is the expected payback period for this international infrastructure investment there and how do we compare the margins versus our domestic operations?
Vishal Mehta
The second part of the question is margins are a factor of magnitude, at least 2x of what we see in India in the international business. That’s one. But you also will appreciate that there is going to be competition and we are aware of the fact that there will be more and more companies who would want to participate in terms of growth in the Middle east, specifically in Saudi Arabia. But it’s also a regulated market, much like India. And you know, there is regulatory authority sama which is very particular about who they allow and who they don’t.
In fact, we took more than a few quarters to even go live because we have a 100% subsidiary there, we have a SAGIA license, we don’t have any partner. We are one of very few companies who have it. So I think that is one part. What was the other question that you asked, can you remind me expected payback.
Aman
Period for this investment?
Vishal Mehta
We think the payback is we don’t want to be super aggressive but anywhere between one to three years. We think that if we are able to, you know, we’ve spent quite a bit of capital on localization, there will be more and more wall gardening that we call about for each country because they want to keep data internally and they want to make sure that their financial systems are not compromised and we have to continuously upgrade on both regulatory, regulatory and compliance related activities. But the payback, given that we have built out scale in India and that we have been in this domain for more than a decade, we think that because we have so many clients in India, many of them, they also have presence in the Middle east and in Saudi.
So for them to go after the low lying fruit for us is very easy. If they trust us in India, they can also trust us in Saudi. So I think the payback won’t be more than three years.
Aman
Okay, sir, I think that’s it. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Participants who wishes to ask a question may Press Star and 1. The next question is from the line of Grishma Shah from Envision Capital. Please go ahead.
Grishma Shah
Yeah, hi, good evening. You know, thanks for taking my question. Couple of quick questions from my side. I want to understand REDEP business model a little better and you know, what are our monetization strategy across various verticals including redep.
Vishal Mehta
Yeah, so this is Vishal here. I will talk about Rediff Enterprise and then I’ll tell Vishwas to speak about REDF pay. REDFs as you perhaps know, it’s been around for more than two decades and we picked up 54% majority stake in REDF last year, sometimes in September and October of last year. So from the outside you would see REDF as being a top 1000 traffic site in the world. REDF has not made much blitz in advertising. There’s practically zero spent on marketing for the last three years at least in some ways. But still it continues to be top 1000 traffic site in the world and top 100 in the country.
Number two, they have enterprise email business. So REDF sends about half a billion emails every day. When you talk about enterprise email, much like you have Outlook and Google as enterprise clients. So in your company you would use either a Google client or an Outlook client for managing your company enterprise emails. REDF is providing enterprise emails for more than a few thousand companies. In fact, between Redif Pro and Redif Enterprise there are more than 20,000 companies using RedF mail client. And each of them, they pay a certain amount per box, per mailbox. And so in some ways it’s scaled up because it’s managing half a billion emails every day.
And then there are 175 million registered email users who are consumers on Rediff, out of which 75 million have not come to REDF for 10 years, which means that they are somewhat not active. And if you look at daily active on REDF, there are about 7 million. So 7 million people come to REDF every single day out of the rest of the 75 million. So our objective there is that in terms of revenue streams, there is email subscriptions that is being paid by enterprises, and then there is ad sales, advertising sales. And those are the two business opportunities that we want to go after.
Can we provide? Because we believe that much like in payments, there is data localization. Similarly, in emails also, there will perhaps be an opportunity to do data or there may be certain mandates because GDPR guidelines are there, but more DPDP guidelines are also there. So there will be an opportunity to make sure that there is going to be localization of data. Today, if you’re using Google client, your data is on Google Cloud and if you’re using Outlook, it is on Azure cloud. Both of them are international companies, which means that email is not encrypted. Your email is visible to anyone who’s a regulator.
And with macroeconomics the way it is, we believe data localization will come in emails also, which means that anyone and everyone. And Rediff is one of the, perhaps the only one or one of the one, two or three companies that has a track record with data localization for so many years. So we think that that’s one opportunity. Ad sales is another one. So as we increase traffic and relevance, we will be able to monetize on those ads. And you’re talking about, I mean, even today the ad revenue is more than a million dollars. So we think that that is an opportunity to go after as far as REDF pay is concerned.
I’ll tell Vishwas to talk about REDF pay. Vishwas, go ahead.
Vishwas Patel
Yeah. Thanks Vishal. So look, ready pay, since Vishal just mentioned the number of users, active users that are there on the platform. Right. So reading pay is our strategy. Am I audible?
Grishma Shah
Yes, sir.
Vishwas Patel
Yeah. So ready pay is our strategy, is our strategy to go directly to the consumers and onboard them on multiple things to get them in the ecosystem. So we are already very Strong on the B2B on the merchant perspective, we have Lots of things in payments and platforms and other things that we have. The whole SQL ecosystem with the merchants is there. The whole ecosystem with the banks is there. Now the whole ecosystem is the consumers is the play that we are getting with RidicPay.
So did it pay? ReadyPay will onboard merchants through our TPAP license through NPCI to get their UPI ID mapped. But that’s just the first part. First part when every transaction the consumer does using that. So if they’re paying through or mapping it through their rupee card or CC on UPAY or credit on upi there is interchange and there’s money that is coming in from the from the other side, right? So there is a transaction based revenue that keeps coming in. So that’s the first part. Now through our BBPS license in infamous avenues of Bharat Bill payment systems we have already started, if you upgraded the latest one, we already started with mobile prepaid recharge.
There are like 1 billion prepaid SIM cards in the country doing an average of 1.1 billion recharge transactions every month, right? For recharging only 5% is postpaid, 95% is prepaid. So those transactions and lose volumes will be processing through it. Any utility, any bill payments, any credit card use, all those have already started and you will see a bigger achievement. Transaction volume scaling up very quickly and people also using mapping their bank account accounts to create that REDF UPI ID also. So cross selling is one of the key part where you know we want to put the entire ecosystem where they have their own email.
Because if you’ve seen from 1999 till now 2025 where we are today, email has not changed everything else, the whole technology sales. But you still have your email id right? Which is there and you still need it for everything. So redep is one of the core and another DPIIT act. And if you have seen the data protection that will very clearly stays data localization and other things for audit for within the Indian law enforcement authorities. So there really has a good track record with thousands of companies using in half a billion email going out. So then merge it with the UPI and the cross selling of all other services which is just the start.
Many other monetization things will also happen and you’re already seeing what’s happening in the industry. So money is to be made on every transaction that comes in. And your good part is that we already have a base of consumers, right? And we already have millions of users already there. So that’s how the whole monetization of Rediff pay will be there in the initial strategies cross selling a lot of new things and innovative things that we’ll be putting it with lot of Metro tickets to everything that will the entire ecosystem that can happen. So that is first initial strategy, that’s how the Rediffe strategy will evolve in the next two, three quarters.
Grishma Shah
Okay, so maybe by the end of next financial year, I mean this financial year FY26 is when we will slowly start monetizing the entire Rediff ecosystem. Is that a fair assumption?
Vishwas Patel
The fair assumption to make it is that by end of next quarter we would, we would have started monetizing.
Grishma Shah
Okay. Okay. And the other thing that I wanted to understand is that you know the UPI incentive in the system has, you know, by the government has come off and the noise around this is that the MDR for large merchants is you know, coming through. So what did your views given that you you are part of this entire payment ecosystem and one of the leading fintechs wanted your views as to how this entire thing would, you know, shape up for everyone in the industry.
Vishwas Patel
So frankly, as inside chair also the Payments Council of India, we’re well aware that it has, it has gone up to the Prime Minister’s office to do it for this particular decision. But right now until it happens we cannot comment on it. But anyway, since we are one of the largest processors of UPI transactions online as well as now with a sound box offline also. So any kind of this will significantly add a lot of revenue if it happens.
Grishma Shah
Okay, okay. And the other question was on the international operations, you know, key, you know, since we have, you know, spent you know, so many quarters to get our compliances in place with Sama and the other GCC regulators. How do you think our go to market approach across these countries? I mean do we have like a strong head start? How do we look at this?
Vishwas Patel
So in UAE we are already dominating. We are in the top three and some of the biggest clients there in that market in UAE be it all the Mr. Nakheel Damac. Even if you want to buy your ticket to go through Emirates, it goes to us. We want to go visit the Burj Khalifa at the top AE it goes to CC Avenue payment Gateway. So all some of the biggest, we have made a significant inroad into the UAE market, Saudi market, fortunately or unfortunately due to the regulatory thing, licensing thing and data localization that they insisted, we had to host the entire primary and Dr.
Systems there within the kingdom. So that’s why it got Delayed and this thing. But now we are live and transactions are coming in significantly less competition there at this moment there. But I think we’ll scale those things up fast because we’ve seen a lot of our merchants within the UAE are also present in Saudi and they’re looking forward to, you know, onboarding onto us. So we think that we will be fairly successful in Saudi and Oman. We have gone through the technical route where we are providing our tech stacks to the leading banks there. So Bank Musket is live.
In fact, it’s done significantly well doing more than a lakh transactions a day with us. That’s a bank Muscat, which is like has 70% of market share of Oman, is working on our stack. And then we have the other three banks following Bank Dhofar, Bank Sohar, also working on a platform there. So all the top four banks in Oman are already on a platform throughout TSP routes where we make money on every transaction as a tier technical service provider. So those three are the biggest markets in the uae. That’s a said. And as we have already announced, it will be going into US and Australia shortly after this.
So that’s the whole strategy right now.
Grishma Shah
Okay, fine. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tushar Sardaft or Matina Investments. Please go ahead.
Tushar Sarda
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a very good set of numbers. I just wanted to, you know, understand your numbers, the basic numbers in a little more granular fashion. So as per the quarterly results filed with the exchange, you have two lines of business, Payment business and E Comm and platform. So what is the E Comm and platform is one question. And on payment business, you report transaction value, gross revenue and net revenue. So if you can explain what are these numbers and how do they relate to each other.
Vishal Mehta
Sure. Tushar, if you look at the notes below, in the notes, the business segments are qualified. In other words, what is included in the platform business and the payment business. So in other words, anything which is in specific, any place where we are providing software frameworks and that software frameworks. If you look at note two of the financial statements, it will actually, in note two you will actually see what has been included in the payments business and the platform business. Right. So your first question is that what is included, I think that is qualified in Note 2 of our Financial statements.
And what was the second question that you had?
Tushar Sarda
So, no, within this. So when you say E Commerce platform, you know, in the presentation there is just one slide I think on the E commerce platform. So do you have license revenue or you have recurring? Because previously I believe it was gem, but now gem, you don’t recognize the revenue, right?
Vishal Mehta
Correct. So we don’t recognize from December 2023 we have stopped recording it, although Gem Gen completely runs on our platform. So even as of what is the.
Tushar Sarda
Revenue here in this platform business, what is the revenue?
Vishal Mehta
So we provide our platform. We are talking about millions of dollars of licensing revenue. So in the past also we had mentioned that we have given our entire framework to very large enterprises. You would see some names over here down. JIO is one of them. Internationally, we have given it to three companies. One is Saudi Telecom which is based out of Saudi Arabia. Their entire framework works on us and we continue providing it to about seven different companies. So over there primarily we get licensing revenue. We do have a success fee there. It’s a fixed revenue, but there is a success fee on addition to licensing revenue that kicks in sometimes.
So in other words, GEM was more transactional revenue, but GEM revenue has been stopped being recognized since December 2023.
Tushar Sarda
Okay, so this is the same kind of platform which was used for gem.
Vishal Mehta
Similar. Similar platform. Similar platform to gem. Correct. Not the same. So we are in arbitration with gem. We’re expecting to hear back about, you know, I mean, fortunately we do have legal, you know, positions saying that this intellectual property solely belongs to NPB avenues. So that we have from the courts. But we are in arbitration to be able to find out what as far as the licensing fee is concerned from jem. So that part we will have hopefully something to share in the next quarter or so.
Tushar Sarda
Okay, my next question was on the payment side. Sorry Vishwas, you’re saying something here.
B Ravi
I just was saying platform, you know, there we have always mentioned the last two years, if you see, even when GEM was going out at that time, there were questions as to who could be using this platform. So we had said that we have built a platform for all times to come and we can use it for various clients on just as a small customization. That’s exactly what has happened. That though Jim is not there, this platform business continues with not just Geo, which was there at that point in time and growing every day, but also the international and seven other customers like what Vishal said.
So this monetizing platform already built in with full infrastructure, which now is being monetized. That’s how it is. Yeah. Please continue Next question.
Tushar Sarda
Yeah, my next question was on the payment business. You have, you know, the gross transaction payment process. Then you have gross revenue and you have net revenue. Right. So how do these numbers correlate with each other? I understand that in the gross payment that you process there’s a lot of revenue on which you don’t earn any. A lot of payments on which you don’t earn any revenue. Right. So I am assuming that only the credit card portion is what you earn revenue on which is around 68,000 crore for the quarter.
Vishal Mehta
It’s credit and debit cards also. And corporate cards. So in other words UPI is.
Vishwas Patel
Banking also. Wallets also.
Tushar Sarda
But majority it is credit card. Right. I mean 175 basis point gross you will get on credit card. The others may be very small.
Vishal Mehta
Correcting is also big. Net banking is also big. Net banking is also big. Credit card is the major one. But net banking also significantly contributes.
Tushar Sarda
So when you say gross revenue, it is all related to payment. Visit.
Vishal Mehta
Yeah. So gross revenue. Tushar, if the question is that whatever revenues we report, we segment revenues. If you look at our segmental results you will have you know the gross revenue which is segmented between payments and commerce. So if you kindly go to the slide you will see so gross revenue is a company. The total gross revenue is a combination of payments and platforms.
Tushar Sarda
But majority it is payment 1047 crores for the quarter that’s honored 2.25 lakh crore of payment process.
Vishal Mehta
That’s right.
Tushar Sarda
Right.
Vishal Mehta
Collect revenue which is gross. And there are certain expenses for which we have to pass on which have to be booked before we come to the net revenue. So there is this expense portion which is deducted from that clause to net in terms of passing on certain commission. And then that net revenue becomes the net revenue after that. All the overheads and all will allow us to get to the ebitda. That is the flow of the revenue. The income.
Tushar Sarda
No, no. That I understand. I’m just trying to understand the gross revenue concept.
Vishal Mehta
Yeah, Gross revenue. You’re spot on. You’re spot on.
Tushar Sarda
So it is around 50 business points. Is 50 basis points. Correct.
Vishal Mehta
Yeah. We earn zero TDR.
Tushar Sarda
Yeah.
Vishal Mehta
Yeah. But on an average you’re right.
Tushar Sarda
And then you have a net revenue which is on a 1050 crore. I believe it’s around 80 crore kind of net revenue that you’re reporting. If I take your presentation and remove the E Commerce.
Vishal Mehta
That’s right. 77.77.9. You’re right. That’s the EBITDA. Yeah.
Tushar Sarda
Okay. Okay. So yeah, I just wanted to get my head cleared on the numbers. And now you mentioned very interesting thing. About.
Vishal Mehta
Sorry, sorry. Net revenue is 135 crores. Sorry, EBITDA is 77.9 crores.
Tushar Sarda
Yeah, 135 minus 51 of E Econ.
Vishal Mehta
Correct. Correct. Yeah, that’s right.
Tushar Sarda
So 84 crore for the payment business.
Vishal Mehta
That’s right. You’re right. Correct.
Tushar Sarda
Okay, yep. Yeah. Then you mentioned very interesting thing about sound box which would be kind of, you know, integrating everything. So which means my credit card can go on now on my phone. I don’t need to carry it physically. Or is it only for Google or Android operating system?
Vishal Mehta
Let me explain. The tap is what goes only on the mobile. That comes along with the CC Avenue Merchant Accounting and Reporting system app. Right. So you download the app and through that on your Android phone you can start accepting it. Soundbox is a physical device. So today you have seen all this QR code with Soundbox devices everywhere on every merchant. But this also does not only does the static qr, it also does dynamic QR map to the amount of the transaction so that when you scan it you don’t have to put the amount. It also accepts credit card, mastercard, Visa, rupee credit and debit plus EMI and other things also.
So it’s a, it’s a way up from a normal, normal, just a speaker speaker. Voila. QR code, static qr. This gives within almost very little on the upper side of the typical speaker sound box. So this is a physical device that is deployed within the same app.
Tushar Sarda
I, I understand that, but you said that the credit card can go on the phone, right? So that is. That depends on the phone OS that you, you don’t have anything to do with.
Vishwas Patel
The CCM will tap it. That will go only on the Android, any Android phone.
Tushar Sarda
Okay, yeah, that’s what I wanted to understand. Can I ask one more question?
Vishal Mehta
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, yeah.
Tushar Sarda
So you are trying to do a lot of new things, but your existing business return on equity is 4%, you know. So as a shareholder, how do I reconcile to this that existing business earn 4% whereas the opportunity seems to be massive in front of you. So as a shareholder, how do we look at it?
Vishal Mehta
Sure. The way to look into it is, I think, you know, goodwill is artificially depressing our roe. So there’s a big line item called goodwill in our balance sheet and that is the one which is depressing our ROE for the time being. So if you remove the goodwill, you know, you’ll perhaps see that the ROE is better than what you are talking about. Much better. So that’s one Second is that yeah, we are looking at investing, there will be a capex cycle that we are getting it into, but that’s mainly around making it more AI ready.
In other words, all our frameworks and all the things that we have built out, I think it builds automation and is essentially, I think it’s survival for any company to actually get into that space. But of course opinions may differ. At least the, the time that we have spent in about last few quarters in terms of building our capabilities. We find that there’s significant leverage and advantages that we get if we are moving quickly into this and it’s moving also very fast that space. So. But to answer your question in roe, if you remove the goodwill, it’s, that’s.
Tushar Sarda
A way to look at it, then it will come to 20% plus I think because it’s almost 2000 crores.
Vishal Mehta
That’s right.
Tushar Sarda
Okay, I’ll fall back in the queue. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Vishal Mehta
Thank you all for joining our FY25 earnings call and looking forward to keeping you updated on the latest development. And have a good evening.
Vishwas Patel
Thank you everybody.
Vishal Mehta
Thank you.
operator
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Go India Advisors, that concludes this conference, thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.