Indraprastha Gas Limited (NSE: IGL) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Jan. 28, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Kamal Chatiwal — Managing Director
Mohit Bhatia — Director, Commercial
Manjeet Singh — Vice President
Analysts:
Yash Nandwani — Analyst
Probal Sen — Analyst
Yogesh Patil — Analyst
Pratyush Kamal — Analyst
Amit Murarka — Analyst
Nitin Tiwari — Analyst
Varatharajan Sivasankaran — Analyst
Ramesh S — Analyst
Apurva Sharma — Analyst
Madhur Rathi — Analyst
Gaurav — Analyst
Devang Patel — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Gas Limited Q3 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by IIFL Capital.
As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Yash Nanwani from IIFL Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yash Nandwani — Analyst
Thanks,. Good day, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of IIFL Capital, I welcome you all to Indrapista Gas Limited Third Quarter FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call. Today, we are pleased to have with us the senior management team of IGL, led by Mr Kamal Kishor, Managing Director; Mr Mohit Bhatia, Director, Commercial; and Mr Manjee Singh, VP Finance.
I will now hand over the floor to the management for their opening remarks, which shall be followed by a question-and-answer session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Kamal Chatiwal — Managing Director
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I’m Kamal Kishor Chattiwal, Managing Director of Indeprust Gas Limited. On behalf of the entire IGL management, I extend a very warm welcome to all of you and thank you for joining us for this conference call. Your continued support and confidence in our company drive us to achieve greater milestones.
This quarter has been particularly challenging in terms of gas sourcing front. On October 16, there was a significant reduction in APM gas supply by approximately 1.08 followed by another cutoff around 0.8 mmscm in November. As a result, our total available APM gas reduced from 5.11 mmscmed to 3.23 mmscmed posing a challenge for future gas procurement. However, IGL has been proactively addressing this issue. We have successfully secured additional gas volumes at competitive price from our existing suppliers and the details are as follows. First is the additional volume of one of gas linked to Henry Hub Index for a period of five years. Second, company has added another 0.65 mms CMD of gas initially linked to Henry Hub and later shifting to brand crude with a volume increasing to-1 mmscm over-time. Both these agreements are competitive in the current market with gas price of these additional volumes remaining within INR38 to INR40 per Scm.
Recently, with effect from 16 of January 2025, our domestic gas allocation has also been partially restored, bringing back approximately 1 mmscm out of 1.88 reduction that was made earlier in Q3. Further, an additional 0.5 MMSCMD from new well gas has also been allocated to IGL and that would be from February. Strengthening our total gas portfolio for the future. With these measures in-place, IGL now has more than nine MMS CMD of gas available, making us future-ready.
The major performance highlights for the quarter are as follows. On the sales front, we achieved an average sales volume of 9.11 this quarter, reflecting a 7% Y-o-Y growth and among the — if you see the bifurcation in the segment-wise, CNG segment has grown by 6% and PNG segment has achieved double-digit growth of 12%. And within PNG, the industrial segment has seen an impressive 16% growth, while domestic PNG has grown by 17%. The commercial segment grew by 10%. Notably, we recently crossed 1 million mark in industrial sales, a significant milestone for our company. Looking ahead, we expect to exit this financial year at 9.5 MMSCMD and anticipate that we’ll be reaching in one year’s time 10.5 MMSCMD. In our new geographical areas, we have witnessed a strong double-digit Y-o-Y growth. While Delhi NCR has showed a growth of more than 5%, the outside GAs have shown an overall growth of more than 30% in both CNG and P&G segment. With this strong growth trajectory, IGL remains committed to expansion, sustainability and delivering long-term value to its stakeholders.
Now I would like to invite our Director of Commercial, Sri Mohit Bhatiaji to share his insights on our financial performance.
Mohit Bhatia — Director, Commercial
Thank you, Mr. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I’m Mohit Bhatia, Director, Commercial at Gas Limited. Thank you all for taking the time to join us today. I hope you had the opportunity to review our Q3 financial results, which were released yesterday on 27th of January ’25.
I take this opportunity to highlight our key financial and operational achievements for this quarter. As you are aware, the sales volume grew from 780 million standard cuber — standard cubic meter to 830 million standard cubic meter, registering a marking of around 7% Q-on-Q increase in growth. The CNG sales rose by 6% from 6.33 million per day-to 6.7 and the total CNG sales in Q3 stood at INR616 million standard cubic meter.
As we registered a good growth in Delhi NCR, our GAs also registered almost 30% plus growth in CNG. We have also witnessed an increase of CNG vehicle population with an average addition of 17,100 new and retrofitted compared to around 14,700 vehicles in the previous quarter, reflecting a 16% growth.
On the PNG front, our domestic PNG sales increased by 7% year-on-year basis, 17%, I repeat. Commercial PNG growth was around 10% year-on-year basis and industrial PNG growth is 16%. In fact, in the month of December, particularly, we crossed an average of 1 million of industrial sales, all-time highest in industrial segment for IGL. With this continued focus on our volume growth, we are very confident of achieving 9.5 million of exit sales target for this current financial year ’24, ’25 and the company is also investing heavily in new GAs to enhance the sales volumes.
Financial performance and infrastructure development, I would like to just share out here that the gross turnover was INR4130 crores, a 6% growth on quarter-over-quarter. The EBITDA was INR363 crores. It was down by 36% year-on-year, primarily due to higher gas input costs, but lot of mitigation has been already done. The profit-after-tax PAT was INR285 crores for this quarter as compared to INR392 crores for the quarter three of the last year. On infrastructure front, IGL has already developed a 2,280 kilometers of steel pipeline network and 26,000 plus kilometers of MDP network and we are now providing our natural gas to almost 2.9 touching almost 3 million lakh customers, 5,000 plus industrial customers and 6,600 commercial customers. So Aigel is now operating at 899 CNG stations, serving almost over 2 million of vehicles daily.
On our future outlook and diversification, apart from our organic — organic growth, is actively exploring diversification opportunities and inorganic acquisitions for future expansion. With secured gas supply now, we remain confident of achieving INR9.5 million of gas this year as exit and maintaining EBITDA in future in the range of around INR7 to INR8 rupees per STM annually.
So with this, I conclude and you will be and the floor is open for the question-and-answer Q&A session.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Probil from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Probal Sen
Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Very good afternoon. Just on the last bit, in fact, what Commercial head, sir said about the EBITDA guidance of INR7 to INR8. If I look at the cost of the gas — new gas sources that was mentioned, I just wanted your sense of how much of price increase will be required at this point of time to go from this INR4.3 to, let’s say, INR7 of EBITDA and what kind of timeline are we looking at to sort of gradually restore margins to these levels?
Kamal Chatiwal
I think if you see the 50% of our domestic gas has been restored. So whatever impact was there, so that has got reduced by almost 50%. If we have a INR2 increase per kg, okay, then I think INR2 per SCM rather, then I think that should take care of us reaching back to around 7 to 8% range.
Probal Sen
Right. But sir, forgive me, but that would be probably for this year. The way that gas output is going, do we actually believe that the gas allocation would now remain on this absolute figure. So therefore, whatever volume increases that we see will have to be met through alternate sources and therefore the cost of gas on a blended basis will keep on increasing as we go along.
Kamal Chatiwal
Our belief is that the domestic gas production per se will not go down. So that will remain rather increase. Only thing is that the normenclature, the new oil gas, whatever ATM cut would be there would be replaced by UL gas, which is around 20% costier than the APM.
Probal Sen
So on an average blended gas cost — sorry, sir, go-ahead.
Kamal Chatiwal
Yeah, yeah. So what I would say is that the total, we, we would say APM and new well gas, if we take it as say today, we have 4.26. So that I think would continue to remain in this range only.
Probal Sen
Right. So therefore, is it fair to therefore assume, sir, that around 15% blended increase in gas costs can easily be passed on an annualized basis because the cost of everything keeps going up. Is that how we are looking to sort of keep improving?
Kamal Chatiwal
So the weightage of that is only, you can say 20% or so. So 70% to 80% would again be APM. And we believe that given that now ONGC has also appointed a technical service provider. So I think the production, especially keeping the fact that CGD is the priority sector. So that we believe that this value would remain.
Probal Sen
Got it, sir. The second question, if I may, sir, was on to 17,100 plus numbers mentioned of new vehicles and retrofit. I just wanted to understand, sir, the demand from commercial vehicles, if it is there in and around the NCR, is that reported under the commercial segment or does — I mean that would still form part of the CNG segment. Is it possible to therefore put a number on what percentage it is of total sales today?
Kamal Chatiwal
Yeah. Actually, there was a huge increase from the private commercial — private vehicle space in the CNG segment in Delhi, NCR that we saw, especially in the month of Diwali, there was a huge increase. So we had around 24,000 conversion in the month of October and majorly contributed by the PV segment, passenger vehicle segment. And the commercial again continues because of the GRAP 4 that you operation in Delhi NCR region. It’s not only in Delhi, but it’s the entire NCR that is covered. So that has also accelerated the conversion, I would say.
Mohit Bhatia
In fact, just to add, regarding this April to November, if I recall, there was an substantial growth in addition of CNG vehicles, particularly by 46%. Okay. So we see that the continued growth in commercial space also due to the and environmental concern basically.
Probal Sen
Understood, sir. Thank you so much. I’ll come back if I had more questions. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dolat Capital. Please go-ahead. Go-ahead.
Yogesh Patil
Thanks for taking my question, sir. And congratulations for the good set of numbers. Sir, as you mentioned in the initial remarks that you are confident to achieve 9.5 exit sales volume in FY ’25. So could you please share what is the current sales volume? Because as per our calculation is the you require closer to 7% kind of a sequential of volume growth, then only you can achieve the 9.5 from the current level of 9.11 MMSCMD. Could you please throw some light what will lead to the 9.5 exit sales volume in FY ’25?
Mohit Bhatia
Actually, we were growing very strong in the 3rd-quarter. The initial 15 days were very, very strong before this cut. Now what happened after the cut was that we had to source this 2 million gas immediately from the market. And unfortunately, during that period, the spot prices were very, very, very-high, around $14, $15 per MMBtu. So whatever sourcing we are — we were doing was at a very-high level. I mean, which was not I think, sustainable for us to pass-on immediately. So we had to reduce deliberately the growth in some of our GAs just to cater to our existing customers. So that was — so seeing that kind of volumes because 55 lakh KG was the number that we touched during that October month. And subsequently we bought it up below 50. So we are confident that 7%, 8% growth in these three months is very much possible and the 15 20 days when we have restored our original supplies. So that has again we are back to those levels, which we were achieving before the supply cut.
Yogesh Patil
So the current sales volumes are much, much closer to the 9.5. Is that a correct understanding, sir?
Mohit Bhatia
Yes, yes, that is correct.
Yogesh Patil
Okay. And sir, if you could provide some volume growth guidance for the FY ’26 and ’27, if possible.
Mohit Bhatia
You see ’26 because the visibility is there in the existing — in case we are able to acquire one or two GAs more, so then that will change. But the current scenario, I think 1 million 10% to 11% growth we are clearly seeing, especially given that our new GAs are also now adding to that. So I think 1 million we will be adding in the next two years, every year, 1 million each. And lastly on the gas. Just to add, yeah, sorry, just to add, see, if we dissect it non-segment wise also, see, currently our GAs are also growing around 30% although handsome double-digit and contributing to almost one-third of the share, plus daily NCR also is growing. In fact, NCR is growing very good around 12% to 13%. So this is on the CNG segment, but particularly if you see PNG, we are adding almost 3 lakh customers year-on-year basis, which almost is contributing to a growth of 15% 16% in domestic PNG. And apart from that, industrial and commercial, we are also adding around 1,200 customers year-on-year basis. So that is also amounting to around 10% to 12. So I find it very confident that we can easily grow on the numbers.
Yogesh Patil
And lastly, sir, if you could share the gas sourcing details for only CNG right now and how it will change considering your new gas sourcing contracts in medium-term? If you could throw some light on this?
Kamal Chatiwal
Actually, right now we are getting roughly 51% is APM allocation, which is a firm allocation. In addition to that, some new well gas plus HPHT would be another 15% to 20% we feel that given that 0.5 has been allocated. So 7%, 8% kind of value will come from there. And that’s 40% would be sourced from RLNG for which we have the existing contracts are — we feel that we can — we will be able to sell at those levels.
Yogesh Patil
Thanks a lot.
Kamal Chatiwal
Nothing is that very attractive that we can sell-with the existing products.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratyush Kamal from InCred Equities. Please go-ahead. Hello, sir. I’m audible? Yes. Yes, yes. Please go-ahead.
Pratyush Kamal
So sir, one question which I have is regarding your current tax structure because there has been a lot of noise about bringing natural gas into the GSP. So how does the current tax structure looks like currently in natural gas? So you get the gas from Gail. So does it attract additional and do you get any input credit for that because since I think it would be interest-rate transfer, you might not be getting that. So what’s your comment on this aspect?
Mohit Bhatia
Yeah. I think the major challenge for the entire sector is the 15% Gujarat vet that is liable on any gas that lands in Gujarat. So this includes the imported RLNG as well as the domestic APM gas because it lands at Hazira where the purification, etc is being done. So the 15% is a, I think a big number. So that is the major cause of concern. Once the gas is in GST. So that will be a big relief for the sector. Additionally, every state has a different kind of VAT structure and the main challenge is in states like UP where the input is 10% and you don’t get input credit on the output and output is at 12.5%, but in addition to that, the excise of 14% remains. So these are the major tax structure. Plus in case we are sourcing a — I mean in high seas, then the 2% PST is applicable.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood, sir. And just to clarify this, so the 15% is being paid by the gal when it gets the gas from Petronet and when the — when the gale gives you the gas, then you’ll have to pay additional 2% because of this interstate transfer. Am I correct or is it something different?
Mohit Bhatia
Yeah. Yeah, that is correct. That is correct.
Pratyush Kamal
Okay. Okay. So now sir, post IGL when it goes to customer, what are the different which are put on CNG and P&C for Delhi specifically? And what’s the additional cost which is involved in the compression? And is it included in GST because then you might be getting the input credit for that GST, which you would have put in into the compression, right? So like what’s the take on that?
Kamal Chatiwal
I think I will ask Manjit to clarify this.
Manjeet Singh
In Delhi, there is no wide reson date on-sales of CNG, even there is no white on purchase of natural gas used for CNG. And regarding your second question on GST, right now, the compression charges what we are paying, we are paying GST on the services that we are using for which we are not getting any input credit because CNG is still not under the GST regime. So once the GST comes into a picture on natural gas, we’ll get the benefit of all the GST we are paying or our input for compression and other activities.
Mohit Bhatia
P&G is at 5%.
Manjeet Singh
G&G, that is tax at 5% right now. The input of — and that is also 5%, but that is. So net impact is a 5% tax on output side that we pay.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood. And sir, what’s the formula of the Henry urban Brently quant which you have made?
Mohit Bhatia
The formula, I think it is a commercial arrangement between mutual parties, so that would be difficult to share. But it is very, very attractive as compared to the — to the industry. That is that is all I we can say.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood, sir. Thanks, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Muralka from Axis Capital. Please go-ahead.
Amit Murarka
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So just wanted to check like has the drag from buses now stopped or is that still impacting your numbers in Delhi?
Mohit Bhatia
No, it is still under progress. So what we can say is nine months, this has impacted the sales. Otherwise, you would have grown — Delhi was almost flat to maybe 3% growth. But otherwise, if you leave aside the DTC, it has grown by 6%. So our act is still being felt because the — I think that 40% are still there.
Amit Murarka
Right. And also I missed the comment on price hike. I think you mentioned that INR2 SCM is needed to maybe go back to the INR7 to INR8 range. But like what is the thought process now on kind of making these price adjustments like is it basically the election factor or is there anything else just if you could just throw some light on that?
Mohit Bhatia
Actually, we balance both the growth as well as the margin. So what I would say is that because of the sourcing was so sudden, so we had to source and then the adjustment because we don’t want to shock the customer and we — into believing that this fuel is not very reliable fuel. So that’s the dilemma for us and Delhi being the largest market. And so any response from our side has to be very calibrated. So we’ll take a call, we’ll take a call and we have taken some price hikes other than Delhi to the extent of INR4 in some of the GAs.
Amit Murarka
No, I understand for December, but now I think the sourcing is more or less now clear and maybe stabilized. So I believe you’ll have a good sense of your cost structure now. So just wanted to understand like when do you think you can go back to that INR7 plus margin range now?
Mohit Bhatia
I think in this quarter, we are hopeful that we’ll be in that range. I
Amit Murarka
N Q4, you mean
Mohit Bhatia
Q4, Q4.
Amit Murarka
Okay, sure. And also on the capex for next year, will it be in the INR30,000 crore range?
Mohit Bhatia
Yes, it will be in the INR30,000 crores INR15,000 crores because we are looking at some of the diversification initiatives also. So if they materialize in this quarter then I think it may even exceed 13,000 to 15,000 that we have projected.
Amit Murarka
Okay. And sorry, out-of-the total CNG stations, how many are debt are in Delhi right now?
Mohit Bhatia
Delhi is around 500
Amit Murarka
Okay.
Mohit Bhatia
So we have around 400 petrol diesel dispensing stations and 500 is CNG.
Amit Murarka
What I meant was in Delhi, how many stations are there out-of-the total, about 900 that you have.
Mohit Bhatia
Now in Delhi, there are 400 stations which are petrol diesel stations and 500 is the number for CNG. And out of over 900, 500 is in Delhi. So we have more stations than the what I’m saying is Delhi has more CNG stations than petrol and diesel.
Amit Murarka
Okay, like that. Okay. Okay, sure. Got it. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is the line of — yes, sir.
Mohit Bhatia
Okay. Please go-ahead.
Operator
Yes. The next question is from the line of Nitin Tiwari from PhillipCapital. Please go-ahead.
Nitin Tiwari
Hello, good evening, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Can you hear — can you hear me? Am I audible?
Mohit Bhatia
Yeah, please. Yeah, you are audible.
Nitin Tiwari
Yeah, sure. Sure, sir. Thank you. So sir, actually you’ve touched on the gas sourcing in bits and pieces in your introductory remarks. But just to put things in perspective, can you help us in terms of like putting a like-to-like comparison between 3rd-quarter and now in terms of what are the sources of gas that we have and what we had in 3rd-quarter and the volume that we are getting from those sources? And also additionally, if you can give us a breakup of LNG contracts you have, because I suppose you already had a couple of LNG contracts, which were long-term in nature in the 3rd-quarter as well. I mean — and have you contracted anything on-top of that and like whether that’s Hindi or trend linked. So just a couple of details on that side. That would be my first question, sir.
Mohit Bhatia
You see, if we look at the company-wise rather than breaking into — you are aware that CNG is 51% and PNG is 105%. But if you look at the company-wide out of 9.11%, approximately 47% is — that is APM, new well gas, APM as well, APM non-APM gas, so you can say 47%, that’s 4.26 MMSCMD that is available and our balance RLNG that makes up around 9.1
Nitin Tiwari
This — for the 3rd-quarter. This for the 3rd-quarter.
Mohit Bhatia
Yeah, this is for the current portfolio as of now. As of now.
Nitin Tiwari
All right, 47% and 53% is the breakup, right? All right. And this has now — this allocation has increased, 47% has now increased. That’s what has happened.
Mohit Bhatia
This is after the increase, this is after the increase because before the increase, we were getting 3.23, now that has increased to 4.23. So INR1 million has increased, so 10% has increased and from 38% 37%, 38%, it has — the CNG has gone to 51%. So company-wide, if you see around — you can say 47% 48% is APM, non-APM as well as the new well gas. Okay, because new well gas is the same, but the pricing is different, slightly higher. And HPHT is — now if we include HPHT also, so you can say that roughly 50-50 is our mix, that 50% is domestic gas with HPHT anyway is domestic gas. So 50% is important.
Nitin Tiwari
So 47% APM and non-HPM, 3% HPHT. Now when we come to LNG, so what is the breakup of LNG in terms of volume and I mean like contracts in terms of index linking. So how much of the volume is Henry hub, how much is…
Mohit Bhatia
Two-third is our — presently, two-third is Henry Hub linked and one-third is combined JCC brand or rather brand is slightly more brand, JCC, JKM, all those. So two-third is linked to Henry gas linked and then one-third is oil-linked.
Nitin Tiwari
And you mentioned that like there is a contract that you have changed from Henry Hub to Brent. Why would that be?
Mohit Bhatia
No, no, it has not changed. It is basically five-year contract, so initial two years would be on Henry Hub and going — from ’27 onwards, that will switch to brand. So it was a mixed kind of a thing.
Nitin Tiwari
Understood. So one MMS that you mentioned at the beginning, that is a new contract that we have signed over and above what we had in 3rd-quarter
Mohit Bhatia
Yes. And the second contract also is a new contract. So since we already have a portfolio of Henria-linked gas and our brand linked contract, long-term Ras Gas contract is expiring in ’27. So that is why we are switching to some of the brands. So that the mix is of the 50% RLNG, the mix is 50-50%.
Nitin Tiwari
Understood, sir, understood. Great. And sir, secondly, on basically gas sales, if you can just help us with the breakup of sales in percentage between NCT, then NCR and other GAs and what was their respective growth in this? And I would just like a portion like an additional number to that. I mean, just for clarification. So the bulk sales that we are doing for which we are supplying APM gas to Haryana Gas, all of that APM supply is still coming as APM or there also like there has been a shift in terms of APM plus NWG or something like that? That would be all from me.
Mohit Bhatia
So there has been no shift in that gas because it is basically a court monitored or rather court mandated. So there has been no change in that. Number-one. Second is that 67% 68% is our daily and around — only the daily figure is that. Around 15 odd percent is or rather close to Gurgaon also, close to 20% would be the NCR regions and balance 12% would be outside NCR. Right.
Nitin Tiwari
And Delhi grew at 3% and NCR at 7%.
Mohit Bhatia
NCR is growing at around 15% and outside Delhi NCR is around 30%.
Nitin Tiwari
30%.
Kamal Chatiwal
So Delhi, Delhi inclusive of — if we say Madla, if we take DTC thing also, the Delhi is growing at around 2%, but if we offset DTC volume, then it is growing at around 6% to 7%.
Nitin Tiwari
Understood, sir. That’s very helpful, sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shiv Shankaran from Antique Stock Broking. Please go-ahead.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir Nik, on the APM allocation part, have you been given any kind of an assurance of no future cuts or do we expect more round of cuts as and when like the next review happens, which I believe is.
Mohit Bhatia
Actually, we have received just the communication that this is our new allocation. Now I don’t know whether anybody can give an assurance kind of a thing. So it will be very difficult for anybody because it is dependent on the domestic production from those fields. We all know that the production over-time tends to go down should be
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
On the new well gas, how much are we getting today and like is it being allocated on a proportionate basis or is it a different basis?
Mohit Bhatia
It is now on the proportionate basis. So in-between what they have done was they have invited expression of interest, but now that has been done away with and they will be allocating based on proportion of their consumption. They are likely to get 20% and 25% any gas because of consumption of CNG and this is basically going to the priority sector, CNG transport and since our share is around 25%, so we expect to get around 25% of NWG.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
So as of now, are you getting that 25% or is it lower there?
Mohit Bhatia
Yes, the new communication that has come from the 16th, would that would be applicable? You will be getting that.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
In which case this new contract you entered to would that become kind of surplus volume or redundant?
Mohit Bhatia
No, no. They will not become redundant, but because they are very competitive, so they are basically lower than the existing — some of the existing contracts. So what we can think of doing is, I mean, trading those excess volumes on the exchange.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
Sure. And my last question sir, like the non-Delhi GAs you are saying are growing currently at what rates of that?
Mohit Bhatia
30%.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
30%.
Mohit Bhatia
Outside, outside Delhi NCR, they are growing at 30%.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
Thanks a lot, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang Equities. Please go-ahead.
Ramesh S
Thank you and good evening. So just to understand some of the operating details of this APM gas and the gas. So whatever you mentioned in terms of the increase in APM gas allocation from 3.23 to 4.23. That is still at the APM gas ceiling price, right?
Mohit Bhatia
Yeah. Yes, that is at ceiling price.
Ramesh S
Yeah. And secondly, when you talk about the new well gas price, ONGC is eligible for 20% premium on that 10% slope based formula. So do you have to pay that slope-based formula plus that 20% premium?
Mohit Bhatia
Yes, the price of APM gas other than the ceiling is intimated by PPAC on monthly basis. So currently that is at 7.3%.
Ramesh S
Yeah, that’s a 10% slow, but ONGC is entitled to get 20% premium on that. So in terms of the pricing of the gas sold by ONGC, the question is whether it’s just at that 10% slope or there is a markup of 20% you have to pay as gas cost for the new well gas
Mohit Bhatia
20% markup is applicable.
Ramesh S
Okay. Second thing is, can you give us the volume in MMCMD from the UGAs as of 3rd-quarter and what you’re doing now in 4th-quarter? Is it possible?
Kamal Chatiwal
See, our new GAs in particularly if we just segregate Delhi NCR thing and around CNG, it’s volume is around 0.6, 2.7 million per day and domestic front it is around 2 lakhs and industrial and commercial is picking-up. So that needs to be further enhanced.
Ramesh S
And can you give us this CNG number for 3rd-quarter, what was the run-rate in new Gs?
Kamal Chatiwal
CNG numbers for —
Ramesh S
For the new GH in 3Q.
Kamal Chatiwal
So it is around 0.6, 2.7 only.
Ramesh S
It is remaining sir. Okay. Now in terms of the capex in UGAs and the recovery of interest,
Kamal Chatiwal
This was for the 3rd-quarter only, which is growing by around 30%
Ramesh S
On a quarter-on-quarter basis.
Kamal Chatiwal
1/4 on over quarter last — last year, yearly basis. Yearly basis, year-on-year basis.
Ramesh S
Okay, okay. So if you’re looking at the capex that we already done in the new GAs and whatever is spending in terms of the recovery of interest and depreciation, when do you see that happen at PBT level, at what volume and what is the timeline for that to be positive at PBT level for the new GAs?
Manjeet Singh
Look, most of the GAs have come positive other than one or two with this price hike, I think except for the very new GA of Banda, the other GAs are more or less at breakeven level. Only the depreciation is slightly higher, even considering that they are now coming into positive.
Ramesh S
So can you give us level can you give us some sense of what will be the increase in interest and depreciations over the next two years from what you have reported as of now for year-to-date?
Manjeet Singh
You see interest in any case is almost zero, okay. The depreciation is one that is there.
Kamal Chatiwal
So the INR120 crore depreciation we reported in this quarter. So this is growing almost year-on-year basis, 10% of INR135 crore INR140 crores we can expect next year same time
Ramesh S
Per quarter. Okay. One last thought. So in terms of the LNG retailing and compress biogas initiatives and the new — the gas meter initiative, can you give us some sense of where these initiatives are going? When do you expect to make some investments and see some commercial results from these projects?
Mohit Bhatia
You see the gas meter is under almost now the installation is nearing. So by April end, so the production will be starting there. I mean, it is in advanced-stage, I can say. LNG, one of the stations is under progress — under the commissioning or has been commissioned and the sales are very encouraging there. Every day they are selling around 10,000 per SCM. So that is the kind of sale. And we are three more stations, LNG stations, two in NCR, one in Revadi. They are in advanced-stage of construction. And one is exclusively for Encore and that will be used for the internal vehicle movement. The CPG is also picking-up that we — our own plant, we have 10 plants. They are — I mean, five, six we have acquired the land and the job is under progress there. So we expect that in another five, six months, one of the unit would get commissioned and subsequently, every two, three months we will see commissioning of the others. So 10 plants for which we have planned, they are in advanced-stage in the sense that we have now got land in those 10 locations. In addition to that, the third-party or the LOI holders of our CBG units. So that is also progressing very well. And we have in our Mujafan Nagar and Noda, Grittenha, Hapur, these GAs, we are getting the supplies from CBG.
Ramesh S
So if I may squeeze in the last question on the CBG business, what is the final capex do and what is the kind of volume of CVs you can sold and at what price?
Mohit Bhatia
You see capex since it will be — it is on a JV mode and that to debt-equity. So company-level capex will not be very, very-high. Right now only INR50 crores kind of numbers is there. But the benefit is that this is the cheapest gas that is available. I mean 10% cheaper than the APM also, blended cost, I would say. So we are — but the challenge remains that the land availability because technology is not an issue, only, only the land availability and the feedstock. So those are the key challenges, which are making the growth slightly more challenging. But we expect to ramp it up now that we have got land in some of the cases. So the capex totally would not be in excess of INR200 crore INR300 crores.
Ramesh S
Okay, sir. Thank you very much and wish you all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Apour Vash Sharma from Capital. Please go-ahead. Apova, I would request you to…
Apurva Sharma
Am I audible?
Operator
Yes.
Apurva Sharma
Yeah, I just wanted to understand what are the steps that have been taken by the company to resolve issues starting in the remaining parts of? We understand the pricing was the main issue between IGN and other parties. So I just wanted your thoughts given the importance.
Mohit Bhatia
Actually, pricing is not the main issue. There was no question, no talk of pricing. Since it is a subjudice matter, so I think it will not be fair on our part to comment on anything and as you are aware the case is in Aptil and the technical member there is yet to be appointed due to which there is some delay.
Kamal Chatiwal
I think it matter is already subjudious and it will be difficult for us to comment right now.
Apurva Sharma
Okay. Another thing is around one-third area of total G of Gurgaon, right, IG has. So what has been the expansion in both CNG and PNG that has been done by the company in this territory that — which is not…
Mohit Bhatia
That growth is very, very encouraging in the sense that we are now selling close to around INR2.5 lakh in CNG. And whatever target was given to us in terms of minimum work program, so that we have already completed for the domestic — domestic connection program. So we — so whatever — the area was a little challenging also, but the CNG sales for CNG, that is the advantage that wherever you set-up, the cars can come there. But for industrial and domestic, that is the challenge that it has to be in your area. So GA, we are seeing a very good growth.
Apurva Sharma
Okay. So that is sure that what has been committed has already been done.
Mohit Bhatia
Yes.
Apurva Sharma
Okay. Yeah. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rathi from CounterCyclic Investments. Please go-ahead.
Madhur Rathi
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Just a clarification. So when we sell CNG on our stations, sir, what is the tax that we incur — so what is the tax that we incur?
Mohit Bhatia
What is the tax — what is the question? Can you repeat that?
Madhur Rathi
So sir, I wanted to understand when we sell CNG at our stations, what is the tax that we need to pay to the government or what is the tax that is we need to add to our pricing to sell it to the end-consumer?,
Mohit Bhatia
Actually we sell it at maximum retail or rather the retail price. Now what the retail price includes is a component of excise duty of 14%. And after that, there is a component statewise of that value-added tax. So that ranges from 0% in Delhi to 12.5% in UP.
Madhur Rathi
Okay, sir. So 14 plus whatever addition related to a particular state. Is that understanding correct?
Mohit Bhatia
Yes. Correct.
Madhur Rathi
Okay. And sir, just a final question from my side. Sir, what we see is the number of private vehicles as well as electric. So the vehicles that use more gas are going out of — are getting — sorry, sorry are getting less implemented. And so EV adoption is getting faster as well as CNG adoption is getting — the vehicle addition is happening, but it’s happening more on the personal vehicle side. So the vehicles that are consuming less are getting added, but the vehicles that are consuming more are not getting added. So I wanted to understand your views on that.
Kamal Chatiwal
That is not the correct understanding. I mean, what I can say is that cup of 17,000 conversions. Okay. But if we compare with say EV or CNG or petrol and diesel, so if these are the four category of fuel, then I would say that CNG as Director Commercial has said is growing at around 46%, which is the fastest in among the fuel categories.
Mohit Bhatia
And EV, the data show that EV has been growing by around 4% to 5% and that too only in the premium segment. Whereas in the passenger commercial vehicle, the normal category and all, I think CNG is growing fastly and around 43%.
Madhur Rathi
Okay, got it, sir. Thank you so much and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gaurav from KCM Corporation.
Gaurav
Hello.
Operator
Yes, sir, you’re audible.
Gaurav
Yeah. Sorry for the thought, but I think I am audible. So I have two questions. First is, you have mentioned the total CNG stations, right, 892. In that there is a bifurcation of IGL, DTC, OMC and. So what exactly it is? Can you just let just…
Kamal Chatiwal
So just a second.
Mohit Bhatia
What is the question?
Kamal Chatiwal
Is it 40%, you can say the 41% is IGL stations, 5% is DTT — DTC DIMS railways and 54% is the OMC and Dodo.
Gaurav
So what exactly is dodo?
Kamal Chatiwal
Dealer-own, dealer operated, I mean our own dealers.
Gaurav
Okay. Okay, got it. And the other point I want to ask is as we Ingraplus is started with a five long route CNG buses with the type four cylinders as a pilot project. So any update on that pilot project? Are we going to use Type 4 CNG cylinders in the buses or even we are including in the cascade transportations and all?
Kamal Chatiwal
Okay. So actually the Type 4 cylinders in cascade are already being deployed. Now this was more of a demonstration project and this has been successfully demonstrated. So Utraha and Delhi to Dehradun, they were applying and filling from Delhi and coming back to Delhi with one field. So that has been successfully tested. Now the only challenge is that the state government, the — I mean, since it was a demonstration, so IGL has demonstrated that. But going-forward, the expectation is that IGL should fund those. So that becomes a challenge that instead of the state governments funding that, so that is the challenge in that.
Gaurav
Okay. And what about the cascades when we are transporting to the CNG stations.
Kamal Chatiwal
So cascades we are deploying for — and this is very helpful for long routes because the volume is more in one field. Instead of the conventional 450 kg, we take around 900, 950 kg in one field. So if it is a long route kind of a thing, so instead of transportation, you transport a larger volume. So they are being deployed for long routes, but for smaller routes, they are — and the economics doesn’t work-out for smaller routes. So we are also deploying for longer routes.
Gaurav
Okay. So is there any determined range that above 100 kilometers if we are transporting, then we should use Type IV.
Mohit Bhatia
Yes, 100 is a good enough number. And moreover, this is only a short-term arrangement. I mean two to three years when the GA is just starting. So our effort is because it — the transportation through this mode is the costliest because INR4 to INR5 additional cost is incurred on that. So effort is that after two to three years, we should try to cut it down and make the stations online.
Gaurav
Right. So the pipeline stations will be more as compared to the daughter booster station, the daughter station?
Mohit Bhatia
Yes. And it is a short-term arrangement only.
Operator
Does that answer your question?
Gaurav
Yeah. But then also, I think on the mother station, once storage the stationary casket will be required, right? So in that, then we will be using that to cut-down the cost or the economics will remain the same if we use any type of cylinder or type 4 is recommended there?
Mohit Bhatia
So for stationary cascades, we do not see any advantage of type 4. Okay, it is only advantageous in case of mobile application. Being lighter and the carrying capacity increases and all those things. But if it is a stationary thing, then I think the economics are better for any cylinder, especially the type 1.
Gaurav
Okay. Okay. Yeah, thank you. Thanks a lot.
Operator
Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Pratyosh Kamal from Equities. Please go-ahead. Sir, I have just two questions. First is that you — since you talked about the sourcing, 50% comes from the RLNG part. And in that 50%, two-third come — two-thirds are linked to Henry Hub and one-third is linked to the mixer of Brent or GKM JCC, which essentially is 33% coming from Henry Hub and about 17 odd percent is coming from the other three mixer. I just I wanted to know the effective cost for us for these two separate parts. So what is the average cost per estimates you incur when you get the gas which are linked to Henryha versus when you get the gas from the other three contracts.
Mohit Bhatia
Actually the prices are dynamic. So Henry Hub is like a, two months back was at 2.5 and now it is at 4. Okay. Similarly, the brand was 84 85, now it is 71, 72. So they keep on changing. So it will not be very fair that if I give you a number of today, tomorrow it will not change.
Kamal Chatiwal
See, the objective was keeping this in the — both is we need to have a diversified sort of portfolio so that we can balance out on the various exchanges, whether it is NBF or rent linked and all, right?
Pratyush Kamal
And would be understandable, sir. But if the cost of Henry would be, let’s say, one year — one month ago was 2.5 and what would the effective cost for us when you’re getting the contracts which are linked to versus when the cost of brand was, let’s say, 84, what was the effective cost which we were incurring when we are getting the contracts which are into those.
Kamal Chatiwal
So actually at today’s price, both of them are at similar values, INR35, INR36 per SPM kind of range.
Pratyush Kamal
Okay. The final cost, the landing costs were right.
Kamal Chatiwal
You can say that it is less than INR40% for both of them.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood, sir. Understood. And sir, what is the compression cost which we incur per kg?
Mohit Bhatia
No, we don’t incur any compression cost rather than because we have our own compressors and everything. So that is part of the OpEx.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood.
Mohit Bhatia
You must say that INR7 to INR8 is our total cost including the compression.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood. And you don’t see any sector for that, right, for the compression part because that’s your in-house compression system which is…
Kamal Chatiwal
Actually that has been explained earlier. I think Manjit, you can repeat that.
Manjeet Singh
See, when we go for compression, we generally have compressors which are working, but we are taking certain services like AMC services, repairs, et-cetera. For those services, we are paying GST, which is not allowed for the credit right now because we — our output is not under GST regime. So per machine as such, when we are buying as a capex, this one-time GST, which is not allowed to us and services that we are taking on regular basis, we are still being GST to the service providers, which as on-date is not allowed to us.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood. Understood. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devang Patel from Sameeksha Capital. Please go-ahead.
Kamal Chatiwal
I think we should — we should now start closing this meeting and this might be the last question we can take right now. So after this, we’ll like to close the session.
Operator
Sure, sir.
Devang Patel
Wanted to check our thought process on our two associates NNGL and CUGL what you know if the partner wants the company to offer an IPO or do we have an option to take-over stake in those companies or what is our shareholder agreement with the other partners in?
Mohit Bhatia
See, yes, we already have 50% you can say stakes in both MNGL as well as CUGL. There has been some news in the past from one of our promoter side also. In-principle, approval has been given by the one of the promoters for making MNGL particularly in listing. So things are going on in a favorable thing and it will move ahead. On CGL, I think the status is same and nothing much development is there.
Kamal Chatiwal
If I may just add, 50% is with the IGL and balance 50 in case of CGL, 25 each is with the promoters. So they don’t intend to dilute, so this is not available-for-sale. In case of MNGL, 45% is with the and BPCL, 5% is with state government. So I don’t see any of the entity diluting it further. So the status will remain in case an IPO is there. So then maybe that is a different issue altogether.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take this as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Kamal Chatiwal
Thank you very much for joining us. This was a great pleasure talking directly to you, getting insights into various different aspects of our business also. So hope that the discussion that we have with you has given some clarifications in terms of the IGL of business and the future outlook. And we’ll see you very soon next time on the same session. Thank you very much for joining.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.