Hariom Pipe Industries Ltd (NSE: HARIOMPIPE) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 11, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Rupesh Kumar Gupta — Managing Director
Amitabh Bhattacharya — Chief Financial Officer
Unidentified Speaker
Analysts:
Sumant Kumar — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Akhil Parekh — Analyst
Hrishit Jhaveri — Analyst
Harshit Khadka — Analyst
Nitesh Dutt — Analyst
Sahil Sanghvi — Analyst
Richa Chowdhary — Analyst
Pankaj Motwani — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to The Hariyom Pipes Q3FY25 earnings conference call hosted by Motilal Oswal Financial Services. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sumant Kumar from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Thank you, and over to you sir.
Sumant Kumar — Analyst
Thank you. Good afternoon everyone and very warm welcome to Hariwom Pipe Industry linked Real Gardening call hosted by Motila Cancer Services. On the call today, we have a management team being represented by Mr. Rupesh Kumar Gupta, Managing Director. Mr. Amitabh Bhattacharya, Chief Financial Officer and Mrs. Rekha Singh, Company Secretary. We will begin the call with key thoughts from the management team. Thereafter, we’ll open the floor for Q and A. I would. I would now like to request the management to share their perspective on the performance of the company. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Rupesh Kumar Gupta — Managing Director
Yeah. Thank you. Good afternoon everyone. This is Rupesh Kumar Gupta from Harihar Pipes. It is with great pride and gratitude that I address you today. As we reflect on our journey this quarter, I am sharing the progress of your company has made. Despite evolving market conditions, the Indian steel industry has experienced shifts this year influenced by global market trends and temporary constraints in raw material, pricing and supply chains. Despite these challenges, we have leveraged our resilience and strategic vision to maintain a strong foothold in the market. With the easing of these pressures, we are now witnessing a positive revival especially in the thriving infrastructure and construction sectors. This momentum reaffirms our belief in the long term potential of the industry. In this evolving scenario, your company has continued to deliver robust performance. For Q3 FY25, we achieved a total income of 30,036.58 lakhs, culminating in 95,979.54 lakhs for the first nine months of FY25, an impressive 16% year on year growth. These results underline our ability to adapt, innovate and sustain growth in the face of adversity. Our profitability metrics highlights our operational strength and efficiency. We recorded an EBITDA of 3,962.51 lakhs for Q3 and 12,657.50 lakhs for nine months FY25. Reflecting a notable 31% year on year growth. Our EBITDA margins have improved to 13.21% in Q3 FY25 compared to 11.64% in Q3 FY24, showcasing our unwavering focus on value creation. Moreover, our operating profit for Q3 stands at 2756.65 lakhs with a cumulative total of 9232.99 lakhs for the nine months representing 21% year on year growth. Our profit after tax has grown by 11% year on year reaching 1122.96 lakhs for Q3 and 4448.58 lakhs for the nine months these results serve, a testament to our robust strategies, efficient cost management and commitment to sustainable growth. Looking ahead, we are optimistic about the opportunities in India’s rapidly expanding steel market driven by government initiatives and the growing demand from critical sectors. With a clear roadmap and strategic focus, we are well positioned to capitalize on these opportunities and continue delivering value to our shareholders. I would also like to draw your attention to a detailed financial results and investor presentation which have been shared on the stock exchange for your review. For any specific financial and compliance related queries, our CFO Mr. Amitabh Bhattacharya; and compliance officer Ms. C S Rekha Singh are available to address your queries. Thank you for your unwavering confidence in us and we continue to look forward. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
So should we open the floor for question and answer session? Sir should we begin the question-and-answer session? Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Chirag Achani from Nagotia Investments. Please go ahead. Mr. Chirag, I would request you to unmute your line and speak please.
Unidentified Participant
Hello.
Operator
Yes sir, you’re audible.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Hi sir. Sir, if we see last two quarter there has been degrowth in quarter and quarter wise. So any specific reason reading this?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Okay. Any other questions in this parameters?
Unidentified Participant
Yes sorry.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Apart from that you have any other questions so that together I can start…
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And sir, if we see last eight quarters our Q3 is lowest among the fourth quarter. So rational behind this? These are my two questions.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Okay, thank you for your question and concern. The sequential revenue decline was preliminary due to weaker steel price and temporarily slowdown in the demand from key sectors such as construction and automotive, especially in Q3. Additionally, the pricing pressure in the domestic market and an industry wide correction in selling price impacted overall realization. Despite these challenges, our volume increased by 17% year on year in Q3 FY25 and we successfully offset some revenue pressure through higher value added product sales. We remain confident in our long term demand outlook. With government backed infrastructure project and solar structure continuing to drive steady growth. That is your first question why it is lower comparatively to the Q2 and your second question is why it is Q3. Q4 is better than Q3. So basically in the Q4 it’s a summer season and always the construction and all engineering activities that mostly happened in the during the course of January to April. So therefore it is not for Hario in the segment wise you can check from the past four or five years data also always the fourth quarter is the best quarter for the industry.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. And sir quarter four is the West. So any FY24 target and FY25 value and volume wise?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically we are targeting total volume growth is almost all 20% growth. We are expecting 20% growth. We are expecting and we expect steady growth in FY25 almost all 20% which is reaching to some around two 38,000 metric tons with a increase in pad value terms also. And in FY26 we anticipate continued double digit revenue growth also.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so this 20% volume guys, correct?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. And sir, when will be we were at 100% capital capacity utilization. If I remember last call you said in two years of time on that target.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
In terms of CapEx, the CapEx investment particularly in high margin product categories like galvanized pipe and engineering structure require an initial ramp up period. However, early signs of demand transactions are strong, and we expect to see improved revenue contribution over the next few quarters. One of the most significant contributors to our capex driven growth is the galvanized product segment which has witnessed almost a 38% year on year increase in sales reaching almost 86,934 metric ton till nine months FY25 comparatively to 62,876 metric ton in nine months FY24. This strong performance demonstrates growing market demand and effectiveness of our capacity expansion. With a balanced approach to capex deployment cost optimization and high margin product growth, we expect meaningful returns on investment to be fully realized in the coming financial periods reinforcing our strong revenue and profitability trajectory.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, answer one last question. Any net profit, sorry net margin target if I see it is continuing declining our margins. So any target for future.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically the if you see that cost efficiency wise we are doing extremely good. Our electricity cost price is cutting down from the last year to this year almost on more than 30% and our raw material impact in raw material margin is also constrained. Despite the fluctuation in raw material rate and discharge in the volatility in the steel size continuously in the past nine months which we are facing in this segment from almost all after three years. Even though you can say after COVID period this is the first time in this segment we are facing this kind of challenge. Despite that our operating cost are constrained and we are continuously minimum our operating cost and due to that only we are able to manage the margin and we are very much confident the margin will be fruitfully growing in the coming future. Because this is the lowest price which we are seeing in the steel market. The steel price is rapidly gradually grow and as and when the margin will be growing the realization price the margin will be much more showing good. Despite that our part time EBITDA is highest comparatively to the any market present scenario.
Unidentified Participant
Yes, okay, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bhagat from Prosperity Wealth Management Private Limited. Please go ahead. Mr. Bhagat, I would request you to unmute your line and speak please.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, just a moment. Hello. Hello. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you for the opportunity. Could you please provide an Update on the 701st fundraising? Especially I’m interested in the estimated time line and the purpose behind it. Are we expecting the fundraising to support debt reduction or any to facilitate inorganic growth opportunities?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Regarding this basically in the earlier con call also and so many times we have clarified that the present scenario we are not the fundraising is deferred for the time being and the company is whatever the growth they are always focused on the for growth capital and company is planning to grow manage by their own and it is segmental wise and it is a process wise. First we have to focus on our Whatever the capacity existing capacity we are having that we have to that resource we have to optimize level we have to use. At the same time the company very much focused to edit various other sectors value added products and our product. But basket is also we are expanding and we are also penetrating new geographical region. By that we are already getting some government and private sector, corporate sector also very good volume of orders. And in the coming future also we are expanding like that as and when at the present moment we are not going for any sort of fundraising. This is for the time being it is deferred.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, understood. So my second question would be. Could you please comment on our guidance of achieving 4 lakh metric tons in volume and 2500 crore revenues on this, could you please comment?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So 4 lakh. 4 lakh metric tons of volume and 2500 crores of revenue which we have disclosed I think in the mid of 2022. At that time the steel demand and steel price in the top notch and the market and the demand domestic growth, GDP growth is also looking very positive and we are still very much optimistic and our entire team focused and our channel are very much professionally handled and we are very much keen to reach our goal. First as I said just a few minutes before and it will be. We ensure that that figure definitely will be reached maybe by the end of. Instead of maybe by the end of 26. It can be somewhere around three to four months extra it will take. But definitely hurrying reach this target. Definitely. Because whatever the present capacity we are having that optimum level is this much 4 lakh metric tons.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Like FY27 we can expect this run rate?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
By the end up not exactly financial year. It is quite difficult for us to estimate or take at this moment. But definitely I am rest assured that as a growing demand of various value added products which we are already focused and we are getting some value added product order. Despite our major contribution by the thin pipes, we continue to enhance efficiency through automation, advanced manufacturing and cost optimization. As you said see in our presentation also we have taken 9.5% market share in the 0.3 ML to 2.5 ML Indian steel pipe segment as reported by Care. So there is a high margin specialized product. Apart from that we are doing regularly various other product portfolios which allow us to reach our target within the span of some around 18 to 20 minutes to reach that goal.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you sir. Thank you. So this last question from my end. What would be the depth that would be expecting for next year or are we expecting to reduce depth going on?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
The depth part is always the see the depth part and our depth is always within the parameter. There is a no debt equity ratio remain comfortable level. And we are continuing focus on optimizing working capital to reduce debt over time. With the cash conversion cycle expected to improve from almost all from FY23. If you see that FY23 we have 153 days in FY24 to 120 days in FY27. We forces foreign further reduction reliance on external borrowings. And the debt will be coming down by our internally financial stability.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you so much. That’s it from my end.
Operator
Next from the line of Akhil Parekh from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Akhil Parekh
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the demand scenario. I mean you. You mentioned that fourth quarter is usually the best quarter for us. Are we seeing any improvement like because we almost now mid of Feb. How has been the demand in Jan and mid of Feb as compared to say last year?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically sir, if you see that from the last nine months performance. If you see the last nine months performance, our demand we have in quantity we have almost all growth. In the last nine months we had sold around 1 lakh 38. 1 lakh 38 thousand 567 metric times. Comparatively to these nine months we had done almost 171 to 54 which is a 20%, 24% growth in the volume. Similar line of activity quarter on quarter. This is fourth quarter is the best quarter and we are expecting almost all near to 2 lakh 35,000 of metric ton of the total volume. We are expecting it will be we are able to sell.
Akhil Parekh
Okay. Sure. So that’s good to hear. And in terms of pricing, right? I mean that decline has continued in third quarter as well. Are we seeing any price stabilization? You did mention that we are probably closer to bottom of the pricing. Would it be fair to assume that we are like fourth quarter onwards we might see improvement in the realization now.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically the sizing factor, the pricing factor if you see that key the pricing factor already it is corrected. And now from now onwards the steel already government is started spending in infrastructure sector also and the steel price is the bottom line. Now we are expecting from gradually stabilized to supported by the government infrastructure and spending and recovery of global demand also. So from that from now onwards the steel price is going a little bit above gradually and the price corrections are beyond this prior whatever the price correction was happened beyond that it is. We are not thinking beyond that it will happen.
Akhil Parekh
Okay, but have we seen some improvement in month of Jan and Feb?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yeah. Already it is recorded in our January month also, we have got a positive approach from the market. And not only earlier we are based on pipe. Now apart from pipe we are having other product basket also which is also doing extremely well. As I in earlier conversation also I mentioned that galvanized also where is the 30% plus growth are there? So we are getting very positive response from the market on the so many of value added product which we are not catered in earlier.
Akhil Parekh
Sure, sir. Sir, in terms of industry salience, right? Like because some of the top say two or three industries where saliency of our products is very high and which have been impacted say last 2, 3/4 type or there has been some weakness.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically on industry scenario you will have heard that this year there is a low in demand and price corrections are happened and some imported coil also dumping in India. So these are all are happened. Government spending is also not happening properly as they have allocated in the budget in FY20 for the FY25. But now government has also started and the demand is also coming. So on that basis we can expect that the our CAGR will be increasing 8 to 10% as India is expecting to grow CAGR by 8 to 10%. So therefore our growth of CAGR the last five years is also witnessed for 34% growth trajectory. So in such scenario we are also expecting some growth.
Akhil Parekh
Just to be specific, my question is like whether a dependency on the government led projects is high or is it more to do with the private investments which can give us the independent.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
No, no no. We are. We are earlier also hurry up. Is not directly contributed any government project dependency. The overall market economy are there. So on that basis when the government is investing in the big project surrounding area and surrounding private projects also coming actively. So therefore automatically it is happening not created by a government, it is created by government and private bodies also. So similar way the demand is coming in both the way.
Akhil Parekh
Okay, okay, got it. For a lastly one bookkeeping question. I mean I don’t know if you have that number handy but like we would be doing roughly 160, 170 crore of EBITDA for this year. In terms of operating cash flow or conversion say from EBITDA to operating cash flow, where would we stand roughly ballpark?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically sir, if you see our operating cash flow already we have disclosed in our Q2 results along with valuation cash flow where you can see that the operating cash flow is coming positive 52.88 crores. Right? So we are very. We are happy to announce that we are able to manage this operating cash flow growth trajectory. And anyhow in December also we have not officially disclosed because as per sevi guidelines we need not to disclose balance sheet and cash flow in the Q3 and that’s not disclosed. But our as investors we would like to share with you. Our cash flow is remain constrained and strengthened similar to Q2.
Akhil Parekh
Okay. Great. This is good to hear and thanks a lot and best wishes for coming quarters.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hrishit Jhaveri from Pi Square Investments. Please go ahead.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Hi sir. Sir, I had a couple of questions. First on the debt. But what would be your current debt level as of December?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
As on December, our current depth is. Just a minute. Just a minute. Sir, as we are total depth is around INR409 crores roughly.
Hrishit Jhaveri
And out of that what would be the long term debt?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Long term debt is almost all INR120 crores — INR123 crores.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. So we have increased it from the September number. Any specific reasons for that sir?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
For September. Sorry, from September 133 it was.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, sir. And sir with the..
Amitabh Bhattacharya
133.57 to be precise. Okay. So it is come down to from 133.57 to almost 124.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. And sir, in this quarter we did around 57200 metric ton of volume. What was — what would be the average price realization which we achieved in this quarter?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
The average price realization is 52,431.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. And which you are guiding is a multi year low pricing which we are getting. Correct?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yes. If you check with the Last quarter also Q3 or Q2 also versus Q2 versus Q3 there is a 6% downfall in the price.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. So as per you, what would be the optimal level? Above 55,000 would be an optimal level that we planned. In Q4. What is the growth we expect in pricing scenario?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
See pricing scenario, if we are taken into the December figure also 52,000. What? What it was happening. This is the lowest price. From now onwards we are expecting it will be broke. The price will be broke gradually. Not immediately but gradually.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Understood sir. But in the quarter how much do we expect? Do we expect 55,000 range in Q4.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
54, 55 you can expect like that. But it is very difficult for me to say upfront this much can be happened because it’s all are dependent on market.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, sir. Sir…
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
I would like to add basically we are not concentrating only on pipe market. We are even concentrating on other value added products which are announcing the profitability of the management. So basically our whole goal is to address on to the profitability area instead of working on only the line of competition and results. So the focus and the gear has been changed of the management to understand the and have the most risk on the area when the competition is very low.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay sir, understood. So one more question on the China dumping part. With the US imposing additional tariffs so globally obviously it will have adverse and indirect effect on India as well. Which might further dampen the prices in the coming quarters. So what’s your outlook on this scenario, sir?
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
So we don’t think basically this would be a great thing which will happen. And the government of India will not focus on you. Government of India is also acting promptly on announcing and respecting the infrastructure and the capacity enhancements which other primary players are doing. So they have to focus on things. And this is not at par with only one particular company. It’s with all the companies established in India for steel segment.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, understood. And sir, on the guidance part earlier we had 25,000 crore guidance for FY26. I think that will be post to near the back three to four months which you guided. So can we expect a 2000 crore mark by FY26.
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
So the volume part we are rest assured because the price is not in our hand. As Amitabh has also addressed you before. On this particular line though the pricing is not in our hand. We cannot assure you on the pricing and the top line of that. But assessment on this particular pricing as today whatever is happening we can estimate on volumes. Volumes we are doing good. Now if we see last year versus this year also I think around 18% drop in the pricing is already there. So the volume is more important than the value of the product. What we see and our focus is onto the profitability instead of getting only the volume. That is the whole focus on.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, but sir, in a 55 to 56,000 price range by next year do we expect a 2000 crore mark with the volumes in the range of…
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
Just a second. Just a second [Foreign Speech]
Amitabh Bhattacharya
It’s coming around 1700.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
1700 to 1750.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. Understood.
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
We focus only on this particular volume level. But because the focus of the company has seen the value added products. So hence the profitability and the numbers will obviously grow. We are bit confident on that.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay sir. Thank you sir. I’ll get back in the queue sir.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vimok Shah from Goel Fintech Private limited. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. So I wanted to know like regarding the geographical expansion plan. What are the specific timeline and milestones for the expanding dealer network in the western and northern India?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically sir, we are actively working on expanding our dealer network particularly in Gujarat and Maharashtra. And our focus is on increasing penetration in Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities. While also strengthening our B2B partnership with construction, automotive and solar power industries, China industries, some government enterprise also where we are already started supply the material also automobile sector also the recently introduced galvanized product segment will help us to cater in new industries and markets. As you rightly said, geographical wise we are slowly and gradually we are moving forward and it has happened reflecting in our results Also in the coming future also it is clear our strategies also.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Got it. And so what are the current demand trends for the steel pipes and the tubes particularly in the infra sector.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically. Basically if you see our presentation also in that presentation also it is reviewed by CARE also that as per the CARE review the total pipe segment almost all 96 lakhs pipes are demanding are there in that pipe segment almost 15% are below 0.5 mm to 2.5 mm are requirement are there where Harlow contributed almost all 9% plus. So this is the present demand scenario which is audited figure as per FY24 data which I can say loudly and clearly as per CARE research report on the basis which already we have discussed in your presentation and in the coming future also we are expecting the as the your tire two and Tier 3 cities are growing and urban economy are strengthened. So therefore this demand in the coming future also it is coming very positively.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. Yeah. Thank you. And all the rest.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Harshit Khadka from RoboCapital. Please go ahead.
Harshit Khadka
Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes. Okay. Thank you sir. So I wanted to ask, can you give some color on what would be your EBITDA margins for your value added products like galvanized pipes?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
For this particular quarter or you are talking about overall nine months?
Unidentified Participant
In general sir, for nine months and also for this quarter.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Okay, so in general last year it is much better. But this year also we are getting around near to 6700 to 6500 to 6700 in between. Roughly you can say for the quarter of December 24th or if you are taken into that nine months, it is coming 7000.
Harshit Khadka
All right, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sara from UVR Investments. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So in your presentation you mentioned that Today company has 800 plus SKUs. What is your targeted number of SKUs by FY 2018?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So day by day our sqs are increasing and that might be by the end of FY26 we can reach in the four digit also. So that means another minimum 200 SKUs. Also we are expecting to add it. It’s not only pipe, it’s pipe, coil and other products also.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. Sir, in ultra pipes, out of total capacity of 84,000 metric ton, what is the percentage that can be manufactured via DFT?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So ultra pipe, actually these total machines are under that TFT technology only. So whatever Ultra is producing that is under this technology by the. By that technology. All right. Okay. About technology. DFT is nothing but a technology.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. All right. Okay. So. So what is the range of pipes in terms of diameter and thickness that can be produced in MS tubes?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically we are having 1.2mm thickness. In Ms. Pipes we are having thickness of 1.2mm and CRGP pipes are coils from 0.6mm thickness we are having and in terms of diameter we are having 20 29mm 9mm to 180mm diameter.
Unidentified Participant
All right, sir, so one last question. What is the ROC you make without backward integration in order to make Ms. Tubes and ROC in When you make via primary root in Ms. Tubes?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Sorry, sorry. Can you repeat once?
Unidentified Participant
Yes, sir. So what is the ROC that we make without backward integration in order to make Ms. Tubes and ROC via making via primary route in order to make MS pipes.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So, madam, basically we are not submitting any segmental reporting. It is quite difficult and over I would like to clarify that key Our Ms. Pipe root ROC is always informed by the integrated part through without integration we are not doing any ROC. And if you are talking about company ROC overall ROC as on December 24th is 18.1% okay, thank you. So it is quite difficult for us to classify this way unless and until segmental reporting.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitesh Dutt from Burman Capital. Please go ahead.
Nitesh Dutt
Hi. Thank you for this opportunity, sir. In this quarter we made an EBITDA of 7000 rupees per ton. Can you give EBITDA per ton for Ms. Pipes? Tubes, GI pipes and the galvanized coil as well?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So you want to segregate asking me the individual product wise EBITDA?
Nitesh Dutt
Yeah, EBITDA per ton. Just a broad range would also be okay. I just wanted to get an idea of…
Amitabh Bhattacharya
For image tubes you can take roughly around 8,600 8,005, 600 to 650 scaffolding that all the figures I am taking telling you exact figures I cannot say because it is not audited. It’s a limited report but the figure is Almost all similar range 8,8600 you can take from NS tubes scaffolding you can take 11,500 and GP5 is again 6,500 to 6,800 for this quarter.
Nitesh Dutt
Okay, sir, in GP5, my understanding is you are not as backward integrated as you are in MSQ because you have to buy HR coils and then make by throwing GP coil. So how are you making such high EBITDA per ton there as well? Because I think I believe converters in in the industry typically make 3,000 in Ms. Tubes. If I’m not wrong.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yeah. In Ms. Tubes converter is generating 3,000 as we are in Ms. Tubes as we have the backward integration so in furnace also we are having certain EBITDA in rolling mill also we are having certain EBITDA and in iron or to sponge iron manufacturing also we are having certain EBITDA. So altogether we are getting 8500 plus EBITDA in Ms. Pipe despite this market scenario and that as far as GP pipe and GP coil questions. If you check that the figure is 6,500 to 8,500 means almost 2,000 lower than the Ms. Tubes. That is why as we are our raw material source we are purchasing from the outside therefore our 2000 rupees is lesser than the Ms. Tubes and from the market why we are getting better margin because of we are producing 0.4mm thickness coil also from our tandem and as I said earlier also our product coil product and other product also apart from GP pipe that is used for specialized steel engineering sector where we are getting better margin in terms of realization. So that is allow us to blended every time this much.
Nitesh Dutt
Got it. Got it. Thanks for that. Just one more question sir. In the industry primary players like people who purchase HR coils directly from steel producers and then make Ms. Pipes Do you price your product slightly lower than those people or is your pricing independent of their pricing?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically in the price segment that is always depend by the market scenario we are basically in our product we are not compared with any primary or secondary steak producer as far as Hariyam Concern, Hariyam brand the management and that Hariyom is as one that best market realizable value. We are selling our product and that is independent. We are not calculating or depending back calculation anything.
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
So adding on to your question Mr. Nitesh basically our performance is based on to dealer networking and all it’s not with distributors. So the pricing part we get a better realization. That’s the whole thing what we do.
Nitesh Dutt
Got it. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sahil Rohit Sanghvi from Monarch Networth Capital. Please go ahead.
Sahil Sanghvi
Good afternoon, sir, and first of all, congratulations for maintaining the volume growth even in such a difficult times. I wanted to understand your progress…
Operator
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Sahil, I would request you to please use your handset.
Sahil Sanghvi
Yeah, is this better?
Operator
Yes, sir.
Sahil Sanghvi
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity and congratulations for maintaining a strong volume growth in difficult times. My first question is, can you help us understand the progress on some of your B2B side contracts? I mean, you were working on signing a few new customers and contracts. Any progress on that front? Especially on the few other government side also? Anything, Any progress on that front?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Basically, for B2B GP coils and others, during the quarter the last nine months, our total volume 10% you can say directly GP coils in terms of volume, almost all 17,000 to 60 metric tons, we directly sold to B2B.
Sahil Sanghvi
Okay. And on the total volumes, we are still at 15% of sales to B2B.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yes.
Sahil Sanghvi
Okay. And secondly, would you be able to help us understand how the working capital cycle will be reduced especially on the inventory days and on the payment days, please?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically sir, in terms of raw material, if you check with the raw material, so last year versus this year almost of September 24th to. Or you can say last nine months versus automatically it is coming down raw material overall raw material cycle days. So it is coming down that consumable days is coming down to almost all four to five days. And similarly finished goods is also coming down and raw material Segment also remain 1 to 2 days difference overall net working capital days to sales. If you are taking it is coming down to from the last financial year to this financial year, last nine months, it’s coming down to almost 12 to 14 days. And we are managing, we are managing this cycle continuously. In terms of receivables, we are approaching dealer funders through very much PACU banks or private banks to onboard our dealer where we are getting data holding this is coming down and against our volume of sales and at the same time we are taking credit from the manufacturer or direct suppliers primary steel producer so that our working capital operating cash flow becomes healthy.
Sahil Sanghvi
Got it, sir. Got it. Thank you so much and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Richa Chowdhary from Electrum PMS. Please go ahead.
Richa Chowdhary
Hello. Thanks for the opportunity sir. Am I audible? Yes sir. Last. In the last call we had given a guidance of roughly 2 lakh 70 thousand tons of volume. So do we see that happening? Considering the run rate is roughly around 55 to 60,000 per ton like quarter. So do we. Do we see quarter four to be very strong?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Quarter four is strong and we are expecting as I earlier also clarified that 20% growth in volume there and from last financial year to this financial year our total volume of growth will be 20% and it is along with the proportionate increase in pad value also in terms and moreover in terms of absolute figure in volume so 2 lakh 70. Whatever you said it is little bit difficult but some around 2 lakh 38 to 2 lakh 40,000 will be reached.
Richa Chowdhary
Okay. And also sir could you just mention how much is the debt levels and cash on the balance sheet as of like the last quarter.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Debt level already I clarified that the total debt long term and short term we is 409 and total outside liability is 516 and tier versus TNW almost all our 0.92 which is below 1.
Richa Chowdhary
Okay. And 1 last clarification. Do we see any capacity expansion happening on the GP side for the next like four years?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
In GP side, no. First of all we are using our existing capacity to exhausted our existing capacity and then executed in phase basis. We align capacity increase with the market demand and capital availability. We have a long term plans for utilizing this land and scalable capacity expansion.
Richa Chowdhary
So right now the GP capacity is 3 lakh tons, right?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yes.
Richa Chowdhary
Okay. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahil Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead.
Richa Chowdhary
Hi, am I audible?
Operator
Mr. Rahil Shah, I would request you to please use your handset
Richa Chowdhary
I am on my headset.
Operator
Yes, sir. I would request you to please speak a little louder. Thank you.
Richa Chowdhary
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So just one question. I believe it’s the same on the volume front. So you’ve said you expect to close the year with 2.38 lakh tons, correct?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yes.
Richa Chowdhary
Can we you know, cover the gap which we are missing out this year in the next year, financial year FY26 and reach 3 lakh tons. Is that a target aspiration?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
For the next financial year, you are talking about 3 lakh metric tons, right?
Richa Chowdhary
Yeah. Which we were kind of targeting for FY25 but we have fallen short.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
For FY ’26 we can take this target for 3 lakh metric ton. So here and there 10% plus 1 minus will be there. Because we can in the last financial data we can only see the volume. Only we can work on that. And we are definitely will be targeting.
Richa Chowdhary
And the average selling price which is now gradually, you know, moving upwards and expected to continue ahead as well. What’s what sort of bracket one can assume for the whole year. I mean of course you can’t predict the prices but like where do you expect them to be?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
At least it is — if it is coming to the line of FY22 performance then the price was almost 62,000 overall. All the value added products together then you can say it is nothing like it. We are always expecting in that kind of value. Again we’ll be getting but let’s see what market will give.
Richa Chowdhary
Okay, fair enough. Thank you and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pankaj Motwani from Equirus Wealth. Please go ahead.
Pankaj Motwani
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So like my question was on like on the inventory part. So like, so I feel like there is a significant amount of inventory in your books. And like with the declining the steel prices. So like what is the quantum of inventory losses you have booked in this quarter? And like also like despite these losses the like the gross margins of your company appears to be stable. Like if I see gross margin it is in the range of 24 percentage. And sequentially like in the second quarter it is also in the same range like 24 percentage. So like I also want to understand like despite this decline in the steel prices, how are you able to maintain the gross margins?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So basically raw material price fluctuation are a common challenge in the industry. However, we have effectively mitigated their impact through strategic procuring, bulk purchasing efficiencies and continuous process optimization, our diversified product mix and agile pricing strategy have enabled us to maintain stable margins while staying competitive in a volatile market. Because of this strategy, we have successfully maintained our EBITDA margin which is almost 13.21% in Q3FY25 comparatively to 11.64 in the Q3FY24. So our EBITDA for Q3.25 was 39.63 crores reflecting a 22% year on year growth while for nine months FY25 it reached 126.58 crores making a 31% year on year increase. These demonstrate our ability to sustain profitability despite external cost pressure, reinforcing the strength of our operational efficiencies and strategies. Cost Management Apart from that, I like to add that power cost, the power cost after the raw material is the major factor for any steel industries where we are able to manage the power cost in terms of almost 38 32% reducing power cost so which all together allow us to maintain our margin.
Pankaj Motwani
So a follow up question on this like I just want to understand like do you have booked inventory losses in this quarter because of the steel prices?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
No, nothing is coming because as we have purchased we are into that steel business from past more than two decades the inventory loss we are not holding any stocks by purchasing therefore the steel price whether it is coming down or coming up raw material, especially raw material it’s not impacted to our balance sheet. We are always maintain the cycle and always our finished goods is always pre booked which we are lying in our factory premises so therefore we are not so far we are not booked any sort of inventory losses.
Pankaj Motwani
Like as for the accounting policy like we have to value inventory on cost or cost or NRE which is lower. So like I just want to understand like even with the declining steel sizes so like we have to devalue an entry at lower cost because of the accounting policies. So I like just want your view on this why we are not booking inventory losses.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
No actually as per if you see our P and L we are not booked any three losses and as I clearly explain you that due to that efficiency cost efficiency and our raw material cost also if you checked with our raw material cost also quarter on quarter basis that is also remain constrained because we are not purchasing in a bulk mode and not dumping the raw material therefore the fluctuation of rate or change of rate or lower rate is not impacted to our financial.
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
Okay. So we are basically — strength of the management, how they manage their inventories, incoming and outgoing. The price fluctuation do not impact things and we have to do so basically.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
And moreover, we are able to pass on the cost difference to the in the market itself.
Pankaj Motwani
Okay, and the second question was on the EBITDA pattern, like if you can see sequentially like a beta pattern has been declined from 700600 in 7,600 in quarter one to around 7,500 in quarter two. And in this quarter it is declined to 6900. Like, what are the key reasons for this decline? And like. And also what is the like way for guidance for follow in FY26?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So, so basically if you check with the realization price, that is when the realization price is quarter on quarter basis, it is coming down on an average 5 to 6% in terms of EBITDA. Decline mode is not in terms of that much of percentage. Okay, so due to that our efficient operating operational capacity and efficient management skill, we are able to manage the EBITDA. It is quite a common thing that when the steel is coming down, the realization price coming down some in absolute figure value, something is lower, but not at that much as the realization price is coming down from the market.
Pankaj Motwani
But like you just passed on the prices to the customer. So like why are we facing decline on EBITDA?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
We have passed on that whatever the additional differences we pass on to our customers because we are not dumping the raw material in our premises as well as the finished goods. Therefore, the price fluctuation is not impact to our PNL and profitability. And as far as future state future questions of part time EBITDA. Yes, we are very much optimistic. And whatever our earlier FY22 also we are earning that much of percentage of EBITDA. Again, we are confident to it will be coming given by the market and demand also. through the demand.
Pankaj Motwani
Okay. So like we can expect a same EBITDA pattern for the coming quarters.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Exactly. Specific numerical figure I cannot say. But yes, we are expecting positively.
Pankaj Motwani
Okay, and just one more question on the on this pond Iron JT status. So like what is the status of the same plant?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Regarding sponge iron expansion?
Pankaj Motwani
Yes.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So recently just 20 days back we have got the CFO approval renewal approval from the Andhra Pradesh Pollution Control Board now we are applied for the EC and as well as CAFE to the Pollution control Board as you award that new government has formed so last one and a half years the all the policy of the state government was not actively doing now the new after the new government now they have started to work functioning properly and we have already filed our application which is into the pipeline Recent past we have got the CFO renewal process for the 100tpd and now we are again apply for another 100tpd for CAC which will be which is in pipeline and we are expecting within month or two it will be received from the department as and when we receive we start the construction for additional 100 TPD.
Operator
Thank you. The last question is from the line of Hrishit Jhaveri from Pi Square Investments. Please go ahead.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Thank you for the opportunity again. Sir wanted a highlight that do we plan any export plans in coming year? Like do we are we planning to expand our geographical presence outside India?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Sir, we are — as I said earlier also we have sku wise we have a lot of product baskets are addition in Hariyam so therefore. Yes very true that options is also open for us and we are closely working on that also but when and how much it will happen? At present I have no practical data so therefore I cannot disclose it Otherwise we are working closely on export market also.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, sir. And do we need to incur any significant Capex for at least next two to three years to reach that 4 lakh metric ton goal? Because I think post FY27 our capacity would be exhausted so any strong capex plans or not sir?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
So capex investment particularly in the high margin product categories like galvanized pipes Already I told in the first discussion also it is take some more time but here it’s doing in the chase manner and new present capex we are doing whatever the into the pipeline we are complete it first and then we have to expand as per the demand and requirement basis.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. So sir, no major capex plan for next year at least.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
At present we do not have only on the basis of the demand and case manner will be doing discipline with the financial management.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, sir. And just the last question, sir. Can you give a revenue or volume split up between Ms. Cube, GP and scaffolding as percentage of total revenue?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
For Q3 ’24?
Hrishit Jhaveri
As well as 9 months, it’d be great, sir.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
As well as 9 months?
Hrishit Jhaveri
Yes.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Basically for image tubes and scaffolding is 9 months total contributed in terms of volume 77,000. Near to 77,000 roughly. And galvanized product is given almost all 77,000, so both figures earlier. 77. 77.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. So GP will remain the greater part, which would be more than 50% for the coming years.
Amitabh Bhattacharya
You can say that way. Also gp. GP means not only PI in terms of pipe, coil and color coil pipe are there. And other product baskets is also there.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, sir. Thank you so much, and all the best, sir.
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now have the conference over to Mr. Sumant Kumar from Motilal Oswal Financial Services for closing comments.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. So, sir, do you want to have a closing comment?
Amitabh Bhattacharya
Yes. No. We do not have any comments.
Unidentified Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you, everyone.
Rupesh Kumar Gupta
Thank you, all.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]