Gujarat Gas Ltd (NSE: GUJGASLTD) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 21, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Sandeep Dave — General Manager, Secretarial & Legal and Corporate Communication
Dipen Chauhan — Senior Vice President, Marketing and Business Development
Shri Rajesh Sivadasan — Chief Financial Officer
Shri Devendra Agarwal — General Manager
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Probal Sen — Analyst
Yash Nandwani — Analyst
Amit Murarka — Analyst
Yogesh Patil — Analyst
Sabri Hazarika — Analyst
Hardik Solanki — Analyst
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan — Analyst
Varatharajan Sivasankaran — Analyst
Mayank Maheshwari — Analyst
Pratyush Kamal — Analyst
Deepak Malhotra — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Sam SA Ladies and gentlemen, Good day and welcome to The Gujarat Gas Limited’s Q4 and FY25 and financial year ended on 31st March 2025 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to the Company Secretary of Gujarat Gas, Mr. Sandeep Dawe.
Thank you and over to you, Mr. Dawe.
Sandeep Dave — General Manager, Secretarial & Legal and Corporate Communication
Good afternoon everyone. A very warm welcome to Q4 and annual result earning call of Gujarat Gas Integrate. I’m Sandeep Dawe, Company Secretary and Head of Corporate Communication at ggl. Just to give you an update since our last earning call on Composite Scheme of arrangement on 30 August 2024 we have announced Scheme of Arrangement among GSTC Group of companies. The proposed scheme will eliminate layered structure of GSBC Group, promote business synergies and unlock value for its stakeholders. The Scheme is subject to various statutory and regulatory approvals. We have filed the scheme with BSC and NSC and received no objection from BSE and NSE.
We have filed the scheme with MCA in February 2025. The matter is under active consideration of MCA and we are expecting first hearing of the matter soon. Coming back to GGL to give a brief background on GGL GGL is the largest citycase distribution company in India. GGL is operating in 27 geographical areas spread across six states and one million territories. We have a good mix of mature and emerging areas. We have developed a pipeline network of more than 42,600 km which provide natural gas to approximately 22.67 lakh households, 4,430 industrial customers and 15,680 commercial customers.
We also operate 828 CNG stations serving approximately 4 lakh vehicles per day. We are aggressively setting up CNG infrastructure as well as upgrading CNG infrastructure to promote use of clean and green fuel. We also started injecting biogas into the GL system consistent with our strategy to focus on increasing volumes. We have achieved an Overall volume of 9.62 MSMD in the financial year 2425 which is an increase of close to 3% over previous financial year. EGL aims to deliver affordable, reliable and cleaner energy by operating responsibly and performing with excellence while considering environment, social and governance factors.
As part of our Commitment to ESG initiative, we have taken various measures which include Hydrogen blending pilot project which we have completed with 8% blending. Please note that there is an inadvertent error in the presentation. Please read the percentages 8% instead of 5% on slide number 31. Now we have initiated action for increasing landing level to 15%. We have embarked on major digitization drive across various business operations and processes. Our major contribution to the environment is by virtue of promoting use of gas for industrial customers. In current financial year we have reduced burning of approximately 13,462 metric ton of coal per day.
Further through our CNG scale on various outlets we have reduced combustion of approximately 3,020 kilo litres of petrol per day during the financial year. At Gujarat Ghetto we adhere to highest standards of safety and a strong culture of safety. GGL is an ISO certified organization for integrated quality, occupational health, Safety and environment management system. We build, operate and maintain a safe and reliable gas network in our area of operation. This brief background on GGL and now request Mr. Deepen Jawan to share business updates. Over to you, Deepen.
Dipen Chauhan — Senior Vice President, Marketing and Business Development
Good afternoon everyone. Thank you Sandeep. First I’ll update on domestic and commercial segment.
We are seeing a positive growth in domestic segment. GGL’s customer base is now more than 22.60 lakh domestic customers. DGL has added 38,000 commission customer in Q4FY25 and register more than 50,000 customers before FY25. While in the year FY24 25 we have added 1:51,000 commission domestic customers. The commercial segment is showing a steady growth in connection numbers. We expect the numbers in the domestic and commercial segment to increase over a period of time as the new areas are matured. GGL at present has a customer base of 15,600 commission commercial customers. Now let me update on industrial segment.
In the industrial segment, Sales volume were 5.03 mmscmd for quarter ended 31st March 2025. Whereas the sales volume during the previous quarter was 5.45 mmscmd and overall decrease of approximately 7%. As anticipated during the last running call, the reduction was mainly in more B volumes where customers opted to shift to prop end from natural gas due to higher price differentiation. The average more B volumes during the quarter was 2.87 mms cmd and node more B volume was 2.16 mmscmd. The morbi volumes reduced from 3.35 mmsemd in Q3FY25 to 2.87 mms cmb in Q4FY25. The known more B volume of 2.16 mmscmt for quarter ended 31st March 2025 has grown from 2.10 mm scmt during the previous quarter, I.e.
an increase of approximately 3%. The non morbi volumes has grown by approximately 9% as compared to the same period in the previous financial year. The sport RLNG prices as expected remained high due to winter months whereas the propane prices during the quarter were relatively similar to propane prices of previous quarter. The continual of high sport RLNG prices kept the PNG prices higher compared to alternate fuel during the quarter. The recent event that is Trade war and geopolitical dynamic shall have a direct impact on the demand. We continue to monitor various aspects affecting the volume I.e.
price movements of RLNG and alternate fuels and consumer good demand across all our operating areas and shall adjust to such market dynamic so as to maintain balance between margins and volume. Now let me update on the CNG segment in Q4FY25. CNG sales in Gujarat recorded an 8% year on year growth while sales outside Gujarat witnessed a robust 28% increase. Overall, CNG sales across all regions rose by 12% annually. CNG continues to offer significant cost advantage, approximately 45% cheaper than petrol and 24% cheaper than diesel across DGL areas. CNG vehicles as on March 25 stands around 15 40,000 as compared to 13 8,000 as on March 24, that is 18% growth.
We are expecting the CNG vehicle growth momentum to continue. During the quarter we commissioned three new CNG stations further accelerating our infrastructure expansion and improving accessibility. We are also pleased to report that the strong growth momentum continued with CNG sales reaching an all time high of 3.56 mms CMD in the quarter. This performance underscores a strong investment outlook supported by rising customer adoption and ongoing strategic infrastructure development, further solidifying CNG’s position in the energy market. Finally, I’m happy to update you that the company has taken a major initiative of digital transformation across all functions and geographies.
Digital transformation in the CGD business enhances operational efficiency, customer experience and regulatory compliance by integrating technologies like scada, ERP and gis. It enables real time monitoring, predictive maintenance and data driven decision. It reduces cost, improves safety and supports scalability through automation and innovation and positioning the company for sustainable growth and competitive advantage. Thank you very much for your attention. Now I’d like to hand it over to our CFO Mr. Rajesh Sivdas Rajesh.
Shri Rajesh Sivadasan — Chief Financial Officer
Thanks. Deepen. Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I’m Rajesh Shivadam, CFO of Gujarat and head of Investor relations. I welcome you all to the earnings call for the fourth quarter of the finance.
I would like to thank you all for attending the call today. I trust you to have gone through our financial results for the quarter ended 31st March 2025 and also for the annual year 2425. We have also uploaded the investor presentation in our website and the stock exchanges. During the quarter the company has invested close to 193 crores in the gas infrastructure aggregating to 742 crores up to for the entire year. The company is presently having more than 42,600km of PE and the steel pipeline which is the driver for our business. In terms of revenues, the company has registered a revenue from operations of 4,289 crores during the fourth quarter of the financial year 25 against 4,294 crores for the corresponding quarter in the previous year.
The company has reported an EBITDA of I24 by 24 crores for the fourth quarter of the financial year 25 compared to 622 crores for the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The profit after tax is 287crores during the fourth quarter and for the entire financial and as compared to 410 crores to the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The company’s rupee per SEM EBITDA margin stands at 6.25 for the quarter as compared to 7.06 in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. For the entire financial year the EBITDA margin stands at 5.95 crore. Sorry, 5.95 for SCM.
As the investors are aware that this year the financial year has been challenging for the CGD companies due to the sudden reduction in the APM allocation. However, on an annual basis the company has been able to maintain the EBITDA of 2090 crores for the financial year 25 as compared to 1984 crores for the financial year 24. The PAD stands at 1146 crores as compared to 1143 crores for the previous year. I’m happy to announce that the board has. Board of directors have recommended a dividend of 5.82 per share. That is 291 percentage of the face value for a total amount of dividend outgo of 400.64 crores.
We’d also like to inform you that the board has also approved The Business Development Policy. The policy will provide a structured framework for identifying, evaluating, pursuing growth opportunities which is allied with the company strategic goals. This includes organic and inorganic expansions towards the market, expansion, partnerships, innovations and investment in sustainable energy solutions and other promising opportunities. The board has also formed a committee of directors who will evaluate the business opportunities. Gujarat Gas continues to have the credit rating of Triple H stable and short term for A one plus from Crystal Care and India Ratings. Further, we have requested investors to upload the nine the nine months requested to further as requested by the investor.
We have also uploaded the 9 months results of GSPC and GSPC’s website. Now I would like to hand over to Devendra Agarwal who is looking after a gas source.
Shri Devendra Agarwal — General Manager
Yeah, my name is Devendra Agarwal. I will talk about gas sourcing. During the fourth quarter APM gas output was to the extent of 44% which was sourced mainly through new well gas, HPHT and IGX and part of it through spot APM allocation. As such has remained flat over Q3 and Q4 in spite of the lower allocation of EPM gas in the last quarter the company has because of the effective sourcing strategy they’ve been able to improve the margins as compared to the last quarter.
As you are aware, spot LNG prices have corrected a bit Brand price oil prices have also come down which has obviously helped in help Gujarat Gas lowering the overall gas cost in the portfolio. As far as long term contracts are concerned, we are negotiating with the GSPC for extension of the existing contract which are due to expire soon and the discussions are progressing well. We hope to extend this contract on better terms. That’s all from my side. I will now hand it over back to Mr. Sandeep. We can start question Q and a session now.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Probal Sen from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Probal Sen
Thank you for the opportunity sir. Good afternoon. Just to extend the last point that was made about the sourcing. Can we get a little bit of a detailed sourcing mix on the overall volumes? How much is coming via terminology? How much is basically strong on let’s say HPHD and RE pricing and how much is from spot, if not, you know for the quarter when it is for the full year on an average. That is my first question.
Sandeep Dave
You are asking for the breakup of the sourcing of the. The gas which we have done.
Probal Sen
Yes.
Sandeep Dave
Okay. Basically 25% of the gas which has, has come in from the APM.
Probal Sen
25% you said.
Sandeep Dave
I’m. I’m not talking of the. From the total. Just hold on.
Probal Sen
Yes, yes, yes.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah. We had 2.3 mm SCMD coming from the APM sources and the long term contracts contributed to close to 35 percentage of the 9.38 mm SCMD. And the short term contracts which is IGF, the HPHT gas and the spot gas, that was close to 40 percentage.
Probal Sen
Understood sir, that’s very helpful. Second question was with respect to the. In terms of the average LNG prices, you mentioned that they were slightly higher due to winter. Can you get a sense of what was the average sort of short term prices that we saw in the business in Q4 and what are they right now in Q1? How much of a decline we’ve seen?
Sandeep Dave
Well in the last quarter the pricing was like close to 13 and a half to $14 which has now come. So it has come down by almost $0.80 or so in the last quarter.
Probal Sen
Around about $0.80. All right, and understood. So just to extend that, would that mean. I mean if I look at the way that prices are projected and our mix going forward, is it fair to say that if things stay this competitive versus petrol and diesel, we can see a little bit of margin expansion in the sense that would we like to revise our EBITDA margin assumptions or guidance? I believe earlier you had mentioned about four and a half to five and a half. But if I now look, this is the second consecutive year where we upper end of that guidance.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, yeah, but guidance is for the entire year. So we see a cyclical changes which happens during the winter. So that’s the reason we are still maintaining the same guidance going forward.
Probal Sen
So similar four and a half to five and a half is what we are maintaining, right?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, yeah we maintained that.
Probal Sen
Yes. One last question sir. Is it possible to split the volumes? You did split the industrial between moldy and non morbi. But my question was a bit broader. If I look at the 9.3 that we have done in this quarter, how much would have come from let’s say the newer areas in the sense that the non legacy areas that one sees, you know, other than the. Your Surat Navsari Var which were already there. Other than that These are roughly the volume range today from all of the other new distills and new zones that we have been developing.
Sandeep Dave
No, I think the Thane is the area where we are getting a contribution from. We are talking of industrial volumes or all volumes put together.
Probal Sen
Whichever is available. Whichever you want to share, sir. Any color?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, I think for industrial volumes you have seen an uptick from Amdad rural area, the Thane area and the DNH area. And with respect to CNG volumes also we have seen an uptick from the Thane area, DNH area same and the Amritsar area also. And domestic also we are expanding in Thane and Amritsar. So that’s also expanding now.
Probal Sen
Okay. Okay. All right. Sir, I have more questions. I’ll come back in the queue. Thank you so much for the detail. Thanks.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yash Nandwani from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yash Nandwani
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Am I audible, sir?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, you’re audible.
Yash Nandwani
So firstly, regarding the outlook on more B, one of the leading players in ceramics had for the first time in. Large probably 3, 4 years not provided any guidance on the volume growth and. Continues to see the overall ceramic market as muted. So how do you expect this scenario to translate for us and what is. The outlook on Gujarat gas volumes in mobi for specifically FY26 and how they are trending in first quarter of FY26?
Sandeep Dave
Currently we are doing close to 2.6 2.7 MMS in Modi. Can you hear me?
Yash Nandwani
Yes sir.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah. Okay. So currently we are doing 2.6 2.7 in Murpi. Generally we see the. I mean spot prices have actually come down as compared to last year. But we also see propane prices coming down because crude has also come down. So I think volumes would be more or less same in the current quarter. We don’t see any major uptick in Murbi volumes right now.
Yash Nandwani
And secondly sir, we have observed consistent. Impressive growth in CNG over the last few quarters. I mean double digit growth consistency. So how long do you anticipate that this double D CNG volume growth will continue? And if you could provide the volume. Growth guidance for CNG specifically for FY26,
Sandeep Dave
I think we’ll go by the same guidance for the growth which I think we are maintaining a growth of 12 percentage and that growth will still continue in this financial year also.
Yash Nandwani
Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Amit Murarka
Good afternoon. So on the gas sourcing you mentioned that you source 9.38 mm cmd. Instead of percentage split is it possible to give the numbers like how you mentioned was 2.3. So similarly what were the numbers for other buckets of gas source?
Sandeep Dave
You’re talking about a split in terms of volumes?
Amit Murarka
Yeah, gas sourcing, I mean the volume sourcing 9138 are the sourcing for that. Yeah, the split for that.
Sandeep Dave
I mean yeah the APM is close to 2.3.
Amit Murarka
Okay.
Sandeep Dave
The long term contracts has contributed to 3.31 and the short term contract which include the spot, LNG, the IGX, the Henry Hub, etc sorry the HPHD etc contributes to 3.7.
Amit Murarka
Okay. Okay. And in terms of the contracts like there are some contracts which are expiring. So what is the replacement for those? Like have you entered into new contracts or is there any ongoing contract?
Sandeep Dave
So we are right now discussing. I think we are going to finalized very soon but the terms would be better than what they are currently.
Amit Murarka
Okay, I think this is what Henry of link contract that you’ll be looking at.
Sandeep Dave
This is a mix of Brandt and Henry Hub.
Amit Murarka
Okay, so we’ll wait for more clarity there. And also in terms of the pricing, what would be the prevailing propane pricing and the prevailing PNG pricing?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, the prevailing propane price is close to 43 rupees. The landed price SCM per SCM and our gas prices is close to 46.55 so the difference is close to 3.5 3.7.
Amit Murarka
All right and just the last question is on the ESPNC if you could provide the performance for us for either SI25 or Q4.
Sandeep Dave
Q4. The board meeting is yet scheduled by the end of this month so after that we’ll be uploading the numbers in the website.
Amit Murarka
So that’s all from my side. Yeah.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yogesh Patil. Please go ahead.
Yogesh Patil
Thanks for taking my question sir. As you mentioned 3.77 mms cmd gas sourcing from HPHT, IGX and spot if. Possible can you split it into HPHT, spot, IGX and NWG if possible.
Sandeep Dave
I think it’s an we take everything together so there is no split which is there. There is a split which is there but there is a. Because we are also supplying to industrial some volume is going into the CNG segment so we cannot practically give that breakup.
Yogesh Patil
Okay, and what was the spot? Absolute volume in the quarter 4 FY25
Sandeep Dave
spot was close to 2.3.
Yogesh Patil
Okay sir, my next question is a. Scheme of arrangement in which the amalgamation. Of gspc, GSPL and Glass will come. Into the Gujarat gya. Can you give us a broader timeline. When this scheme of arrangement completion will. Happen and what is the current status. Of approval which are necessary for this scheme completion?
Sandeep Dave
It was approved by board in August. At the end of August thereafter we have moved BSC NSC got cleared from BSC NSC and we filed the scheme as per company law government to Ministry of Corporate affairs in the month of February. So it’s under active consideration of MCA and we are expecting the first hearing soon. The current timeline which we’re envisaging for completing the entire scheme and get a final MC already somewhere around September October 2025.
Yogesh Patil
Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Sir, last question. Sir, other operating expenses are jumped sharply. Any particular reason why such an increase?
Sandeep Dave
We have provided for certain provisions have been done close to 30 crores especially for the inventory which was there. We have non moving inventories for which around 6 crores of provisions were made. And we have also done the physical verification of assets for in around three or three and a half crores has been done. And certain DCS has been converted into online. So certain write offs, write offs with respect to those assets have taken place. And we also provide for the security deposits which are there.
So that’s also the total of 30 crores of additional cost. And also the CSR has affected in this last quarter 35 crores. So that put together has increased the other expense.
Yogesh Patil
Okay. And then the lastly sir, your cost. Of a gas in per unit basis has declined sequentially. Is it because of APM gas restoration. In a January month and a lower spot LNG requirement during the quarter or any other reason. If you could explain us,
Sandeep Dave
I think we are able to source it in the right prices. So I think the APM has only reduced from the Q2 you look at Q3 and Q4. So we have been able to source the domestic gas in a much better price.
Yogesh Patil
Again the lastly NWG compared to the quarter 4. How much quantum or the quantity you are receiving in the quarter one for 26. Any. Any ballpark number if you could share NWG new LGAP.
Sandeep Dave
Almost same I suppose.
Yogesh Patil
Oh thanks. Thanks a lot sir. I’ll come back in the queue if more questions.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah,
operator
thank you. The next question is from the line of Sabri Hazarika from MK Global. Please go ahead.
Sabri Hazarika
Yeah, so so clarification when you mention 2.3 mm fcmd of APM. So this includes NWG also, right? Your club APM plus NWG is 2.3, right?
Sandeep Dave
No, it is not there that NWG is part of the spot, the short term contract.
Sabri Hazarika
Okay. This 3.77 part of that, right?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah.
Sabri Hazarika
Okay.
Sandeep Dave
2.3. Clearly. With respect to the allocation, with respect to the gas from Gale, with respect to CNG and PNG only NW is not included.
Sabri Hazarika
Okay, fine. So I just wondering that. That if you are like having. Okay, got it, got it. Fine. Second is on this CNG vehicle edition. So right now you’ve got a universe. Of 15.8 lakh vehicles, is that right? It’s.
Sandeep Dave
Yes, please. Yeah, it’s a. You’re right.
Sabri Hazarika
And 4 lakh vehicles were added in. In FY25.
Sandeep Dave
2 lakhs. Almost 2 lakhs.
Sabri Hazarika
Almost 2 lakhls were added in FY25. Okay, fair enough. And. And you mentioned that Gujarat and outside Gujarat volume growth of 8%, 28%. This was for the quarter, right? Not for the full year.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, yeah.
Sabri Hazarika
Okay. Secondly, just. Just wanted to let you know that. I mean somehow the GSPC website has disappeared. I think we have tried to get. The numbers for Q3 but do a. Google search and all. It’s not there. So is there any issue there? And can you give us the Q3. Numbers of Edita path for GSTC?
Sandeep Dave
Q3 is already uploaded. I. I think the GSBC Group website which is there from there the link comes in.
Sabri Hazarika
Yeah, but that website is not like. Not like working. There’s some problem there. I mean I was not able to like get it. I mean even a Google search, I. Mean it’s not coming previously it used to come. So if you have it handy then otherwise it’s fine. But if you have it handy for Q3, can it give us the number?
Sandeep Dave
You can, you can share the concern over email to us. We’ll connect you with the relevant officer of gstc.
Sabri Hazarika
Yeah, sure. Fair enough. And. And just last question. You have no volume guidance as of now for FY26, right? Or apart from say CNG and domestic. PNG for industrial IT is still a wait and watch. Is that right?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, you’re right.
Sabri Hazarika
Okay, thank you so much and all the best.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Hardik from ICICI securities. Please go ahead.
Hardik Solanki
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. If you just want to check during the quarter the financial, other financial asset. Has increased from 13 crore to 13 crore to 1300 crore. So what was the, you know, the. Specific things in this which have made this, you know, such large jump
Sandeep Dave
you are talking of which line item?
Hardik Solanki
Current asset. Other financial assets.
Sandeep Dave
Other financial assets. Yeah. Basically we have reclassified the GSFS funds which you deposit. We are depositing it for more than three. Three months. And it’s more than one year also we are depositing it. So basically there’s a reclassification from the cash and cash equivalents to other financial assets.
Hardik Solanki
Okay. What was the capex for? What is the capex? That is for FY26. And going forward.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, we will be doing Capex close to thousand crores. That’s the approximate guidance.
Hardik Solanki
Okay. Just want to check. You know I went through the DSPC result. So just want to know what was. The volume for the nine month period.
Sandeep Dave
You. Unable to hear you. Not audible. Hello.
Hardik Solanki
Am I audible?
Sandeep Dave
Hello.
Hardik Solanki
Hello. Hello.
Sandeep Dave
We are not able to hear him.
operator
Hello. He is audible. Just a second. Mr. Hardik, may I request you to rejoin the question queue?
Hardik Solanki
Okay, I’ll.
Sandeep Dave
Thanks. Yes sir, can you hear you now?
Hardik Solanki
Hello, sir, are you there?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah. Yes.
Hardik Solanki
Okay sir. So should I ask the question?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah. Mr. Hadik.
Hardik Solanki
Yes. So sir, what was the nine month volume for GSPC?
Sandeep Dave
Nine months volume for GSBC. It’s around close to 13 mm SCM.
Hardik Solanki
Okay. So thank you. I’ll come back in queue. Thanks.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmalbang Equities. Please go ahead.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Thank you and good evening. Can you repeat the numbers for the total number of CNG vehicles for FY25 and 24? I heard that 13, 80,000 for March 24. What are the number for year ended March 25?
Sandeep Dave
15 lakhs 40,000.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
15, 40,000. Okay. 13 lakh 80,000 to 15 lakh 40,000. Okay. Now if you’re looking at.
Sandeep Dave
13 lakh 8,000 to 15 lakh 40,001.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay. 13 lakh 8,000 to 15 Lakh 40,000. Right. Four years.
Sandeep Dave
Yes.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay. Yes. Okay. Now if you’re looking at the expected synergy between Gujarat Gas and GSPC post merger are you already, you know looking at some benefits based on the expertise they have in gas sourcing? Is that flowing through into your numbers or once the actual merger happens you will see this benefit coming into your numbers.
Sandeep Dave
I think that that benefit is already there today also.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay. So in terms of the tax accounting once the merger is done you’ll obviously have to provide tax in the, you know, quarters prior to the formal, you know, some of the merger. So in terms of the full year basis is still reasonable to assume that you will get the tax breaks for FY26 or should be expected only from FY27.
Sandeep Dave
No, I think see the scheme is affected from the 1st of April 2024.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay.
Sandeep Dave
So all the returns etc will be re. Will we need to refile the returns etc so we’ll get that benefit.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay. Okay, fair enough. So one last thought. In terms of the growth you are talking about 12 in CNC you’re doing about 2 kgs per vehicle based on the numbers, right? So do you expect the same kind of growth in CNG vehicles and thereby are you expecting the growth in CNG or do you also see the consumption per vehicle going up? How do you see the CNG growth materializing in future?
Sandeep Dave
In both the ways I think see in the area which we are dominating as Gujarat I don’t think the EV has created that impact. So we have seen a growth in CNG vehicles that’s evident from the numbers which deepen. I told you. And. And. And with respect to that only we are expanding ourselves with respect to the growth also. So the FTODO etc, the CNG stations which are going to come in and the online conversions which are going to happen that is. That is only going to add on to the volumes which are already there.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay. So when you’re talking about this volume growth you are saying that you will see more number of vehicles converting to CNG and do you also plan to capture some of the highway traffic? Because this is a other thing we hear from other companies. So is there a floating vehicle population that is helping you in your cng?
Sandeep Dave
We have very good presence in most of the highways in Gujarat. And same way we are continuing to the new areas also.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay, thank you very much.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of from Antique limited. Please go ahead.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
Thank you for the opportunity sir. On the outlet friend, like you know what has been the addition in FY25 and what would that expect in the next few years? Year on year?
Sandeep Dave
I did not get. Can you repeat the question? Sorry.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
The outlet edition CNG outlets.
Sandeep Dave
Okay. CNG outlets I think depends. We have in this last quarter we added three outlets and apart from that we are majorly focusing on the upgradation of the our existing CNG stations. When I say upgradation is something like whether to add one more compressor or to convert daughter booster into online station. And that is in the range of I think 40. That’s what the upgrades we have gone.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
And if I were to look at FY26 and 27 any guidance.
Sandeep Dave
If you remember last year we have launched our app Dodo scheme. And as per our latest information, there are at least 60 stations which are under construction or under process of getting permissions from various authorities. And I think there are 10 more to yet to sign and approximately 70 odd CNG stations will add under this scheme in this next financial year.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
The second question was on the possibility that once the spot prices fall sharply and we expect that to happen over the next 12 to 16 months, will there be a ca, you know, LNG kind of a challenge? That’s just the way we had a propane challenging us. Will there be an LNG kind of a challenge as well? Is that a possibility.
Sandeep Dave
As of now in, in transportation? That’s what you are talking about,
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
not Marbi. Do you see like you know, LNG becoming a challenge anytime in the next year or two? If LNG prices were to fall sharply from the current levels?
Sandeep Dave
I think we are looking at as an opportunity rather than a challenge.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
How so?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, we can, we can still put up the LNG stations over. We have the CGD areas, we have the CNG stations. One more additional LNG station would add to our bottom line itself.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
LNG stations for trucks or like you know, for vehicle MD’s.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, I’m talking of the same thing.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mayank Maheshwari from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Mayank Maheshwari
The first question was in terms of gas sourcing, some of your peers have started to move to a lot more long term sourcing of LNG as well as gas. You are still at nearly about 50 odd percent if I’m correct on spot. So is there a thinking process of what that number could look like for you the next two to three years of where you want to kind of get to?
Sandeep Dave
We are looking. We are also actually we are in a very good position. We are only 50% on term contract basis. So basically there’s a lot of opportunity for us to source gas on long term basis and that too on a competitive basis to the major fuel which is propane. Right now the contracts that are being done in the market is around mid 12 percentage of oil. So if we get those kind of contracts we’ll be able to compete with propane in a much better way. That 12.5% of brand represents a very good price. So basically what we see that is that we are in a very good position to get into long term sourcing maybe in the next 18 months or so.
Mayank Maheshwari
Okay, so do you think that 50% number could look like 70, 80 or is there A number you have in your mind you want to get to.
Sandeep Dave
Absolutely. And in fact we can even this number which is like 5 million in industries, industrial segment that can also increase substantially.
Mayank Maheshwari
Okay, just a follow up in terms of how you’re pricing your gas as well. Correct. You had earlier in previous calls highlighted about using propane benchmark and kind of using that to kind of incentivize consumption. Are those things still in place or you are kind of considering what’s going on with the spread with lng? Those things have kind of unwinded Right.
Sandeep Dave
Now we are still looking at sourcing gas basically pricing linked to propane. However, I mean that is, that is what. That is also already there. But we are also looking at sourcing brand based contracts that represent. That basically gives us a natural protection against, you know, propane prices. Because both propane, propane also moves with oil and these are contracts are linked to oil. So basically they will both move in tandem. Correct.
Mayank Maheshwari
Okay. And this, the final question was in terms of LNG for trucking as a diversification in terms of your consumption, have we seen any major progress there or. We’re still in very, very early days for you.
Sandeep Dave
Actually we have already five LCNG stations. It’s just a matter of time. We’ll put LNG dispensers there. So we are just waiting for the ecosystem to be developed and will be there in the game.
Mayank Maheshwari
Okay, thank you sir.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pratyush Kamal from Incred Equities. Please go ahead.
Pratyush Kamal
Hello sir. I’m audible.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, you’re audible. Yeah.
Pratyush Kamal
So my question is related to the long term contracts which you have. So just wanted to get a bifurcation of the type of contracts be it the Brent or the Henry Hubb. So can you just give the bifurcation of those contacts? So how volumes are there linked to the entry of and how many volumes are, you know, linked to the Brent?
Sandeep Dave
And there is no Henry up as on date.
Pratyush Kamal
Okay. Are you planning to, you know, include a bit more of Henry up into your portfolio? Looking at the Henry of prices being at the lower level currently and we are expecting that the NDF prices would be at this upper level for a longer period of time.
So what do you think on that?
Sandeep Dave
Currently if you see Andrea Visa with oil, oil contracts are cheaper because oil is around 65 or so whereas Nriyab is around 4.4.2. If you compare the delivered cost, Andrea would be on the higher side. However, these do change over a period of time. So definitely have Some share of Henry or gas in our long term portfolio.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood sir, it was really helpful. So this wanted to understand the slope of the vend contracts which you currently have. So what’s the kind of slope which you usually have in those kind of Brent contract?
Sandeep Dave
I think the industry tells you the it’s close to 13 to 14% is the slope which is so currently around.
Pratyush Kamal
Yeah. So is there any fixed cost also like let’s say a point five dollar one of fixed cost over and off of that 13% of the slope?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, I think the when the long term contract is there you have the slope component, the fixed component etc so that is there.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood sir. And the last question is regarding the, you know, volume uncertainty as far as the industrial and politically the more we are concerned. So you know, because the largest competitor, the biggest competitor for, for using that industrial gas would be propane. So eventually if the production of natural gas would get increased globally it would ultimately lead to the oversupply in the propane market also.
So what do you think of in the next two to three years are the spreads going to get reversed from the 3.5 rupees per kilogram to you know, let’s say minus one or minus two. So technically I wanted to ask that, is it the case you are seeing that, you know, the LNG would get cheaper and more people would start consuming LNG compared to propane which they are currently doing in mortgage. So what do you think on that?
Sandeep Dave
So if you are following the Indian market. So most of the many Indian companies have signed long term contracts.
The deal car contract has been renewed at mid 12 percentage of oil and at those levels can easily compete with propane.
Pratyush Kamal
Understood sir. But at the same time propane prices are also falling down. Any comment on that?
Sandeep Dave
Ultimately the spread is something which matters the most rather than the absolute prices. The propane prices if you follow on a yearly basis. So during summer it is like 14% of oil and during the rest of the season it’s like 17 to 18% of oil. Whereas if you are getting gas at around 12 and a half to 13% you can easily complete under.
Pratyush Kamal
Sir, no issues. Thanks a lot.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Deepak Malhotra from Capgro Capital Advisors llp. Please go ahead.
Deepak Malhotra
Hello, Am I audible?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, you’re audible.
Deepak Malhotra
Hello, am I audible?
Sandeep Dave
Yes, yes, yes you are audible. Please go ahead. Okay, we can hear you. Please go ahead.
Deepak Malhotra
Yeah, yeah, thank you. My first question is basically on the pricing of you know, your inputs basically. And you have Explained that you know how you wish to increase the long term contract going forward. But I think a bigger question looms in terms of the industry policy which the government seems to be bearing forward to where the APM allocation may actually come to not say going forward. So how do you foresee that in terms of, you know, impacting the overall profitability of the business?
Sandeep Dave
I think, see, I think the Parik committee reports was very clear with respect to the end date of that APM gas allocation. And I think as GSPC and Gujarat Gas with the merger we are in a better place to basically source this gas to compensate for the APM not coming in. Yes, there is definitely there would be a effect on the margins but we’ll be definitely in a position to increase the volumes which practically will amount to a higher profitability.
Deepak Malhotra
Okay. Okay. My second question then is on the overall business growth. I think over the last five years as you have demonstrated that the growth has mainly come from the CGD business and more B. Anyway, you know as has been outlined over the last few years we have seen there is a lot of variation and now also going forward as we discussed, even on the call we are not really sure. So where is the future growth is really to come from? I’m not looking at quarter to quarter. I’m looking at say next three to five years please.
Thank you.
Sandeep Dave
I think you are right. Basically that’s the thing which the board has come up with a detailed framework of a business development policy which has come out. So basically that intends to basically put a growth growth trajectory for Gujarat gas going forward. So that would include organic as well as inorganic that is expanding the gas missions as well as in the other areas also. So we are seriously looking at those expansion plans and we’ll definitely come back to the stakeholders in the graduate instit future.
Deepak Malhotra
Okay and one final question on the demerger if I may ask. How is that really going to benefit you? While you have already mentioned that you’re already getting the benefit in terms of you know, sourcing from GSTC in terms of you know, getting the supplies. So is that really then going to make really a difference you know once the merger demerger happens and the whole process goes on.
Sandeep Dave
Demerger is happening only for the transmission business, the gspc.
Deepak Malhotra
Yeah, sorry, I meant both merger and demerger.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, it’s definitely going to help gspc. No, with respect to basically the entire city guest, the gas trading business will be part of Gujarat. Yes, that’s the basically this going forward also that’s what we require also in Gujarat that we need to have a song strong sourcing team for the gas which is going to come. And the demerger is only happening with respect to the transmission business. Anyway. It’s a regulated business. So. So we are practically consolidating and basically we are also removing the cross holdings which are presently there. So automatically that is eventually benefiting the stakeholders.
Deepak Malhotra
Okay. Will there be any cut also in terms of any manpower costs or anything which could also give further fill up to the margins at all?
Sandeep Dave
I think the businesses are being merged. So there is no. I think they are into different business. GSPC is in a different business of sourcing ENP etc and GSPL still remains as it is. The transmission business still remains as it. So there is. I don’t think so there is any manpower reduction which is going.
Deepak Malhotra
Okay. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Aber Pandit from Old Bridge Mutual fund. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So in regards to the new committee. With respect to the BD opportunities that you have discussed. So could you just give me. Give us more color on this and. Which areas of which industries you are. Looking at and what is the scale of investment you will be looking at for these new industries.
Sandeep Dave
I think it would be the prerogative of the committee to finalize and come back to you. And with respect to the scale of investments you can. You can estimate from the merged entities balance sheet what is the scale of investment? We can.
Unidentified Participant
Okay sir, any other color specifically? Will you look. Look at. I mean other gas or is it. Will it be totally out of the gas sector kind of thing?
Sandeep Dave
It can be both.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. Thank you sir.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from Baroda BNP Paripas Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. So you’re not audible. Sir, please come closer to your mic. No sir, there’s still some disturbance in your background.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Am I audible now?
operator
Yes sir. That’s better.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Thanks for this opportunity. I wanted to check on the progress on the expedition scheme that we have been offering. We have mentioned that we have signed around 60 agreements. If I remember we had around 100. As I.
Sandeep Dave
As I mentioned earlier also there are 60 stations is under process. Whether some of them are under the construction or some of the stations are taking the permissions mode. But if everything goes well I think we will be managed to add 70. Around 70 stations this year.
operator
Hello, Mr. Ketan, are you there?
Unidentified Participant
Sir, my line is bitchy. I think I’LL drop back.
operator
Okay, sir, thank you. We move on to the next. The next question comes from the line of S. Ramesh from Niribalbang Equities. Please go ahead.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Thank you for the follow up. So if you see the current trend in cost, it looks like you can earn higher margins than fourth quarter. So is there any scope for cutting prices? How do you see the run rate for the EBITDA per SEM in the first half of the year in FY26?
Sandeep Dave
I think we are going with the same guidance, Ramesh.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Yeah, I understand that, but with the kind of softness in gas prices, it looks like you can earn at least a rupee more. So I’m trying to get a sense in terms of how the margins are panning out as we speak.
Sandeep Dave
I think there are two or three variables which are going along that one is the APM gas reduction which is coming in and the uncertainty in the propane prices which are there.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay. Secondly, on the new G. Yeah. So on the new gas, are you booking any loss in any of the new gas and when do you expect all these new gas to break even and start generating positive EBITDA impact?
Sandeep Dave
I think that it will take, I think we have started investment last one or two years and I think as an infrastructure company you take at least two to three to four years to basically come on, come over. Because we are developing the entire ecosystem of gas over there. So that has to be developed. So that I, I told in the last call also maybe two years maybe. Yeah.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
So is there any loss you’re booking at PBT level in any of these events?
Sandeep Dave
So no, it’s, it’s at a business level which is there. No, see you cannot look at in isolation. Ultimately you are promoting gas and basically you need to get in to get there first. Interest has to come first before the sales happen.
Ramesh Sankaranarayanan
Okay, thanks a lot.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Saurabhanda from Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. So just a clarification. So the APM allocation that you spoke about of 2.3 mms cmd, was that for Q4 or is that the current allocation?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, it was the Q4 allocation.
Unidentified Participant
So could you tell us what is the current allocation? Because I understand there were some changes. That happened in April.
Sandeep Dave
It’s around 2.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And how much would the NWG be currently.
Sandeep Dave
New? Well, gas should be around 0.5 to 0.6. Okay.
Unidentified Participant
So this hasn’t increased because my understanding was it was around 0.5 even last couple of quarters. So this is largely stable.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, it is largely stable.
Unidentified Participant
All right. So thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vartarajan from Antique limited. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks again for the opportunity. As far as Morbi goes, like you know, how. How are you seeing the number of units, new units coming up? Are you seeing significant growth there?
Sandeep Dave
Will you please repeat the question?
Unidentified Participant
At Morbi, are you seeing new units come up? Are we looking at a 6, 7, 8% kind of volume growth?
Sandeep Dave
Yes, there are. You big units are coming up. In fact,
Unidentified Participant
any numbers you can put number of units.
Sandeep Dave
At least nine as as far as we are knowing. Okay.
Unidentified Participant
And secondly, I also wanted to once again understand a little more on this LNG opportunity you were talking about in my last question. First is about like, you know, you obviously will have an opportunity to take back the propane volume. But do other people also have that opportunity of, you know, bringing LNG into the Morvi area and compete open access?
Sandeep Dave
PNGRB has come up with the guidelines. They have come up with a regulation called Guiding principle on Open Access. I think good number of security entities including Gujarat Gas have challenged that in Delhi High Court. We have obtained a favorable entry model saying that they cannot take any coercive action against it. And as we speak the matter has been finally heard in Delhi High Court and they have reserved the matter for order. So matter will be finally decided by Delhi High Court’s order sooner.
Unidentified Participant
So pending the order, like you know, there is no new units which can come up there.
Sandeep Dave
I mean no one can supply LNG to Moorbi as long as his order is there. There was a specific separate order obtained by Gujarat Guest from Delhi High Court which categorically said that LNG is included within the exclusivity of CGD entity. Only the authorized CGD entity. We can supply LNG in a given geographical area. If somebody wants to supply LNG say in a Murby area, only Gujarat Gyas can do it. No one else can do it.
Unidentified Participant
Fair enough. That clarifies it. Thanks a lot.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. As there are no further questions from the participants I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sandeep Dawe, company secretary for closing comments.
Sandeep Dave
On behalf of Gujarat Guest. I would like to thank all participants for sparing their valuable time. Thank you all.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of Gujarat CAS limited that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.