Gujarat Gas Ltd (NSE: GUJGASLTD) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Aug. 06, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Sandeep Dave — General Manager, Secretarial & Legal and Corporate Communication
Dipen Chauhan — Senior Vice President, Marketing and Business Development
Shri Rajesh Sivadasan — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Probal Sen — Analyst
Yogesh Patil — Analyst
Maulik Patel — Analyst
Amit Murarka — Analyst
S. Ramesh — Analyst
Achal Shah — Analyst
Varatharajan Sivasankaran — Analyst
Mayank Maheshwari — Analyst
Hardik Solanki — Analyst
Nitin Tiwari — Analyst
Somaiah V — Analyst
Kirtan Mehta — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Gujarat Gas Limited’s Q1FY26 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to the Company secretary of Gujarat Gas, Mr. Sandeep Davey. Thank you. And over to you, Mr. Davey.
Sandeep Dave — General Manager, Secretarial & Legal and Corporate Communication
Thank you. Good afternoon everyone. A very Warm welcome to Q1 earning call of Gujarat Gas Limited. I am Sandeep Dawe, Company Secretary and head of Corporate Communication at dgl. Just to give you an update on our Scheme of arrangement. The scheme of Arrangement was approved by GSPC Group of companies on 30 August 2024. The proposed scheme will eliminate layer structure of GSPC Group, promote business synergies and unlock value for stakeholders. The scheme is subject to various statutory and regulatory approvals. We have filed the scheme with BSC and NSC and also received no objection from BSC nsc.
We also received filed a scheme with Ministry of Corporate affairs in February 2025. We have requested and we are in continuous search with NCA to expedite the process. The matter is under active consideration of Ministry of Corporate affairs and we are expecting approval of the scheme in Q3 considering longer than expected time taken in completing MCA process. They also simultaneously initiated process for obtaining approval from other regulatory authorities. Coming back to GGL to give a brief background about ggl. GGL is the largest city gas distribution company in India. GGPL is operating in 27 geographical areas spread across six states and one union territory.
We have a good mix of mature and emerging PGD areas. We have developed pipeline network of more than 43,300 km which provide natural gas to approximately 23.02 lakh households, more than 4,425 industrial customers and approximately 15,700 commercial customers. We also operate 830 CNG stations serving approximately 4 lakh vehicles per day. We are aggressively setting up CNG infrastructure as well as upgrading CNG infrastructure to promote use of clean and green fuel. We also started injecting biogas into GGL system at Gujarat Gas with a commitment of providing complete energy solutions that empower communities, business and industries with an aim to become a total energy solution provider.
The Board of Directors of GGL at its meeting held on 5 August has approved to undertake sourcing and sale of propane or LPG to industrial customers. This reiterates our commitment towards customer centric approach. GGL aims to deliver affordable, reliable and cleaner energy by operating responsibly and performing with excellence while considering environment, social and government factors. As part of our commitment to ESV initiatives we have taken various measures which include hydrogen blending pilot project which we have completed with 8% blending. Now we have initiated action for increasing branding level to 50%. We have embarked on major digitization drive across various business operations and processes.
Our major contribution to the environment is by virtue of promoting use of gas for industrial customers. In Q1 we have reduced burning of approximately 11,242 metric ton of coal per day by providing clean fuel. Further, through our CNG sale on various outlets, we have reduced combustion of approximately 3,295 kilo litre of petrol per day during the current quarter. At Gujarat Gas we are the highest standards of safety and a strong culture of safety. GGL is an ISO certified organization for integrated quality, occupational health, safety and environment management system. We build, operate and maintain a safe and reliable gas network in our areas of operation.
With this brief background on GGL, I now request Mr. Deepen Chawan to share business updates. Over to you, Deepen.
Dipen Chauhan — Senior Vice President, Marketing and Business Development
Thank you Sandeep. Good afternoon everyone. Let me first update on the domestic and commercial segment. We are seeing a positive growth in domestic segment. GGL’s customer base is now more than 22.85 lakh domestic customers. GGL has added 36,000 commission customers in Q1FY26 and registered 39,000 customers in Q1FY26. Importantly, DGL has signed gas sales agreement with Batinda Military Station for the supply of PNG to over 11,300 residential quarters and 230 nurses. The commercial segment is showing steady growth in connection numbers.
We expect the numbers in the domestic and commercial segment to increase over the period of time as the new areas mature. GGL at present has a customer base of 15,700 commission commercial customers. Now let me update on industrial segment. In the industrial segment Sales volume were 4.71 mms. EMD for quarter ended 30 June 2025. Whereas the sales volume during the previous quarter was 5.03 mmse. An overall decrease nearly 6%. As anticipated during the last earning call. The reduction was mainly in MORE B volumes where customer opted to shift to propane from natural gas due to higher price differential.
The average more b volume was 2.5.1 mmscmd and known more b volume was 2.20 mmsc. The morbi volumes reduced from 2.87 mmscmd in Q4FY25 to 2.51 mmscmd in Q1FY26. The known morbi volume of 2.20 mmscmd for quarter ended 30 June 2025 has grown from 2.16 mmscmb during the previous quarter, I.e. an increase of approximately 2%. The known mobi volume has grown by approximately 8% the same period in the previous financial year. The reduction in sport RMNG prices and crude prices during the quarter enabled GGL to reduce the prices in industrial segment. The reduction also enabled GGL to maintain the price differential to propane I.e.
natural gas premium by Rupees 3.50 per asset. The natural gas demand in Morbi is likely to remain low on account of upcoming Janmaster Meer festival in this quarter. In addition, persistent uncertainties related to tariffs and geopolitical dynamics continue to cloud the overall business outlook. We continue to monitor the various aspects affecting the volumes, namely price movements of spot RLNG and alternate fuel and consumer goods demand across all our operating areas and shall adjust to such market dynamics so as to maintain balance between margins and volumes. Now let me update on CNG segment EGL reported a strong performance in Q1 FY26 driven by robust growth in CNG volumes and expanding infrastructure.
KMG sales rose by 12% year over year with Gujarat recording a 10% increase and areas outside Gujarat delivering a notable 27% growth, underscoring GGL’s success in deepening its presence across geographies. As of June 2025, the CNG vehicle base across GGL’s network reach approximately 15.65 lakhs compared to 13.63 lakhs a year earlier, reflecting a solid 15% growth. PNG continues to offer a compelling economic advantage being approximately 45% cheaper than petrol and 23% cheaper than diesel, further reinforcing its attractiveness amid volatile fuel prices. During the quarter, DGL commissioned three new CNG stations supporting its commitment to expanding reach and improving SSEBT.
CNG sales volume touched a record high of 3.72 MMSP, highlighting sustained demand momentum. Looking ahead, GGL is well positioned to capitalize on the increasing shift towards cleaner energy. With ongoing infrastructure development, a growing CNG vehicle base and strong customer adoption, the company remains confident in maintaining its growth trajectory and strengthening its leadership segment. Finally, I’m happy to Update that during Q1 we marked significant milestones in our company’s digital transformation journey. Also, with a sharp focus on innovation and operational excellence, we go forward Merger we have planned to strategically expand our enterprise resource planning ecosystem to incorporate additional key business functions and achieve the benefit of seamless integration across vertical.
Along with this, the planned technology transformation of ERP will help to leverage advancement in AI powered analytics and enhanced decision making and risk management capabilities. On the operations, we have grown a blueprint for implementing a robust and secure CADA system to enable centralized monitoring and control across all geographies. This scalable agile infrastructure is designed to support our evolving business dynamics and ensure responsiveness in a rapidly shifting global era. Thank you very much. Now I’ll request our CFO Rajesh Sivadasan to take over. Please. Rajesh
Shri Rajesh Sivadasan — Chief Financial Officer
Thanks Deepen Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you to the earnings call for the first quarter of the financial year 2526.
I’d like to thank you all for attending the call today. I trust you would have gone through the financial results for the quarter ended 30 June along with the presentations which we have uploaded on the website and the stock exchange. During the quarter, the company connected close to 35,000 new domestic connections making the total PNG domestic connections more than 23 lakhs during this quarter. The company also invested close to 121 crores into the gas infrastructure. The company is also planning to incur annual CAPEX in the range of 800 to 1000 crores in this financial year.
In terms of revenue of the company which has registered, the revenue from operations stood at 4065 crores during this first quarter against 4615 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The company reported an EBITDA of 579 crores in the first quarter against 574 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The profit office tax stood at 327 crores in the first quarter compared to 330 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The company’s rupee per SEM EBITDA margin for this quarter stood at 7.17 against rupees 5.75 in the previous quarter.
The company’s estimated EBITDA margin will be in the range of 4.5 to 5.5 rupees for this concurrent financial year. During the first quarter the company has received around 100% allocation towards domestic segment and 41 percentage allocation to the CNG segment. Thus, we have an overall allocation of 51% to the priority segment of the government. The APM shortfall was met by the new well gas, the HPHD gas, the long term and the spot volumes. Gujarat Gas continues to have a credit rating of triple H stable and a short term rating of a 1 FOM from Crystal Care and India ratings.
Further as requested by the investors, we have also uploaded the 12 monthly results of GSPC and GSPC website. We now open the floor for Q and A session.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press star and two participants are requested to use answers while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Prabhul Sen from ICICI Security. Please go ahead.
Probal Sen
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I had three questions. Firstly you just mentioned about the sourcing. Partially that 51% of your priority sector sales was met by APM. Can we get an overall percentage breakup in terms of sourcing of 8.88 mm SCMB that we have done overall how.
Sandeep Dave
Much gas is being sourced from you know which source in percentage terms or in volume terms? Whatever is available. That was my first question. So coming to your question the gas from short term contract is basically 34%. Long term contracts is 38% and the rest is all domestic gas. Majority of them that coming from APM and neural gas.
Probal Sen
Any how much of HPHT gas did we get in this quarter? Hello, Am I audible?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes sir, close to point, close to 0.7 cmd. Right, right. All right.
Probal Sen
So the 51 shortfall that you mentioned sir would have been HPHC 0.7 51 from APM and the balance would be from new and gas. Is that a fair way to look at it?
Sandeep Dave
Hello, can you repeat?
Probal Sen
You said that sir on a blended basis 51% of priority gas was from ATM and you just mentioned HPHT was about 0.7. So the balance would have been from the new well gas. Is that the fair way to look at it?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, new well and spot. Also some bit of spot. Got it.
Probal Sen
Fair enough sir. The second question was sir about this new business initiative, the propane sourcing and seal that we are looking to do. I just wanted to understand sir how will this business model work and what sort of commercials are we looking at in terms of, you know, what is the advantage that we are bringing in when other players are also already there that are selling and sourcing propane, particularly in MORE B if you can just throw some more light on this.
Sandeep Dave
So basically the current consumption in more B is close to gas equivalent if you see close to seven, seven and a half million out of which one third is gas and two third is propane. So total propane market if you see is close to around 1 lakh 51 67,000 metric tons per month. We are basically targeting close to 25% of this market. And what we intend to do is basically we want to become an integrated energy supplier for all their energy needs so they won’t have to shift from one supplier to the other. And the advantage that we think we can bring is basically we can help them reduce their working capital requirements since they already have some financial security already provided to us which we can use if we are selling propane to them so they don’t have to, you know, basically rush to other suppliers with advance money and all those stuff.
Basically we are targeting a market close to 25% of the total market for the initial few months, maybe this financial year ending and then depending on how we what our experience is, we can then scale it up further. So where will he source this propane from, sir? Will we be basically contracting with the own seas or importing it directly or. How will it, how will it work? So we’ll be importing it directly from the international markets.
Probal Sen
Okay. So our pricing will therefore be competitive with any other supplier in the market.
Sandeep Dave
So that’s our strength. Basically. We have been sourcing LNG since long through GSPC obviously. But that’s our strength and we hope to get propane from the international market at a lower price which we can use, you know, to compete in the markets.
Probal Sen
Right, last question if I may squeeze in one more. You mentioned about the uncertain demand environment. Overall at MODI itself and given that. That continues to be there, any guidance you would like to give on volumes specifically from MODI going forward for the next few quarters on an overall exit rate. If you want to tell us for. FY26 for the company.
Sandeep Dave
I think we are reviewing the market. We’ll continue to look at the market but I think difficult to guess as to what the number would be. But we continue to look at it and that’s how I can. That’s how as of now we can put it this way.
Probal Sen
No problem. Sir, thank you so much for the detailed answers. Very, very helpful. I’ll come back from the end of. Thank you.
operator
Thank You. Our next question is from the line of Yogesh Patil from Dollar Capital. Please go ahead.
Yogesh Patil
Thanks for taking my question, sir. But as you mentioned the current volumes of the more B on the propane side are the 5mm SEMD and what we are targeting as a Gujarat Gas at 25% of that. So 1.2, 1.3 MMS CMD is the right volume to assume for the remaining period of the FY26. Is that a correct understanding.
Sandeep Dave
For propane?
Yogesh Patil
Yeah.
Sandeep Dave
Yes.
Yogesh Patil
So sir, if possible what would be the margins on the propane distribution? That’s one. And are you planning to do some capex in building this propane or LPG supply chain?
Sandeep Dave
So there is no capex involved in this entire exercise that we are planning. So except booking for some capacities in the terminals, there is no capex involved.
Yogesh Patil
Okay. Any guidance or any ballpark number if you could give us on the margin side what kind of margins you will make on the distribution of propane?
Sandeep Dave
Well, difficult to guess since we are entering this business for the first time. Difficult to give any numbers right now.
Yogesh Patil
Will it be better than PNG industrial? Will it be lower than a PNG industrial?
Sandeep Dave
Would be difficult to comment on margin in this juncture. I think we will see it will evolve over a period of time. Probably it will be better placed to comment on margin once we have got a good grasp of the market.
Yogesh Patil
Sir, your PNG industrial business has marketing and infrastructure exclusivity protection. But you are entering into the propane distribution business where more than five players are already there. So apart from the working capital is there any strategy where you can. You can play and really gain the market share inside the more B?
Sandeep Dave
I think it’s not only more B we are looking at. See, I think propane is being consumed by not only more B other areas also. So let’s things unfold in the future. We’ll get back to in the next quarter. By the time we’ll be trying to sell the gas, sell propane in the market or we’ll be having better clarity with respect to the margins etc. I think that would be the right time to tell you what strategy I adopted.
Yogesh Patil
Okay, last one, sir. Have you applied for the propane distribution license towards the regulator? Any updates on that side?
Sandeep Dave
So we have to get a credit rating from the agency which we have. What?
Yogesh Patil
Okay, thanks.
operator
Okay, thank you. Our next question is from the line of Molik Patel from securities.
Maulik Patel
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions. Can we just get in on the GSPC performance in Q1 FY26 what kind of volume did on the trading side and trading profit or the path at the gspc?
Sandeep Dave
Malik we are yet to go to the board with respect to that. Mostly it will be end of this month. So once that is there it will be available in the website once we have but the board approves it.
Maulik Patel
Got it. Second question is on this long term volume we have for from the Rustgas and we understand that a significant revision has happened in one of the contract and the pricing in one of the contract has come down. Also you recently reduced the price in Modi by almost 3.3.3 rupees per se. Will this both offset each other? The reduction in the mutual contract and the price reduction in Morbi Will this offset each other?
Sandeep Dave
Well I think both are not related as such but the reduction in selling price is more on account of reduction in crude prices as well and obviously we have to link our selling price to the alternate fuel which is propane in this case. So I think yeah that’s my answer to your question right now.
Maulik Patel
Okay so in a way that currently the propane for this September month is significantly lower at about 520 per ton compared to 589590 used to be for the month of August next two months there is going to be likely volume pressure in Murbi. You did around 2.5mm of AMD in Q1 right? So Q2 is likely to be lower than that. I presume that propane will see a significant sharp correction plus there’s a seasonality is also there because in this August September month mortgage goes for some kind of production shutdown because of the festival. So Q2 volume will be lower than the Q1 right?
Sandeep Dave
Q2 volumes would be. Yes lower because of Janmaster me and general slowdown because of festivals and all.
Maulik Patel
What’s your view on the non murbi volume? I think it around 2.2 kind of a number right and been holding up well. Do you see any kind of incremental growth in non mobility?
Sandeep Dave
Yes, I think we are seeing good uptick in non modi volumes. We are in touch with various bigger kind of consumers bigger kind of consumers whom we are now targeting them with some fixed term contracts rather than having a contract which had determination provision. So we are going for long term contract in non murbi region like Wafi and other places. We are in touch with certain bulk consumers and I think we can we see a strong growth in non mobile regions.
Maulik Patel
Just last questions on CNG side what’s the progress on that scheme? I think I understand it was in 60 or 70 CNG stations come under this four row scheme. Right. But if I see that over this quarter and in Q1 only two additional station has been set up.
Sandeep Dave
Right.
Maulik Patel
But at the same time the volume growth or probably if I look at YOY it’s again around 20, 30 CNG stations has been added. But if I look at the growth has been very strong. It’s almost around 11% kind of CNG volume growth. Is it more that the efficiency is coming into the picture in terms of an higher throughput at the CNG stations which is driving this growth?
Sandeep Dave
Yes, please. And the most important thing is increasing number of CNG vehicles in the state. I think almost nearly 2 lakh vehicles have been added in last few months or I can say one year. And the same way we are adding more and more CNG infrastructure. Also there is a good asset utilization in existing stations and with these new CNG stations are coming up we are expecting that vehicle growth will be better than even whatever happened in last year.
Maulik Patel
So you mean to say that last year we did around 11% kind of CNG growth FY26 CNG growth can be.
Sandeep Dave
Higher than that Possible. That is possible because we are planning to add under the app doto scheme we have 70 odd statements are almost in the process of construction and I think before this December we’ll be able to add, at least double digit CNG station under this scheme.
Maulik Patel
Good. Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Amit Murarka
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So just to be very clear, so Morbi, you said would be lower in Q2 than Q1 would be generally the expected run rate.
Sandeep Dave
Can you get that? We cannot get the point.
Amit Murarka
No. You said Q2 module volumes is lower than Q1. Q1 was 2.51 as you said. So could you just give guidance as to what could the. What is the number that we can expect on NQ1 and Q2 based on the current run rate that you see.
Sandeep Dave
Would be in the range of 2.3 to 2.5.
Amit Murarka
Sure. Also like industrial price I think has been cut by about three and a half. What is the price right now after this cut?
Sandeep Dave
43.330.
Amit Murarka
43.33. So essentially because I was wondering that basically pre cut you are at 46.8 then which is more or less flat at Q1, was flat at Q4 and even CNG and domestic PNG were flat in Q1 to Q4. Just I was wondering like the realization had a bit of a drop on a Q of the basis. So what would that be on account of then?
Sandeep Dave
I think realization was more in this quarter.
Amit Murarka
I don’t know. Because if I, if I do kind of revenue device I volume I get a lower realization.
Sandeep Dave
I don’t think so.
Amit Murarka
Okay, fine. Sure. And, and just lastly on, on GSPC Cody could skip the 525 financials so.
Sandeep Dave
It’S already in the website.
Amit Murarka
I’ll just take a look. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bank Equities. Please go ahead.
S. Ramesh
Good evening and thank you very much for the call. So if you are looking at the LPG purple distribution business, have you got the line of sight in terms of sourcing and the customers who are actually willing to give you a contract, how is that progress?
Sandeep Dave
Basically we are in touch with various international suppliers for sourcing token. As far as customer base is concerned, those are our existing customers and we are very confident that TCL sourcing propane.
S. Ramesh
Hello. Yeah. Okay, so if you look at your slide 12 and 14 I have some questions there. So the slide will gives the details of the spread of the geographic areas. So can you tell us in terms of the potential for ramp up in volumes in the next two years which are the gas or areas where you see growth potential and which are the areas where you see a quick ramp up to EBITDA break even and positive contribution to earnings? Hello?
operator
Yes sir. Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management has been disconnected. Please stay connected until we reconnect them. Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management has been reconnected. Ramesh. Sir, please go ahead, you can continue. The management line is connected now.
S. Ramesh
Yeah, I think the call got disconnected and we were discussing the LPG and propane sourcing we can get back there. So I had a couple of questions on slide 12 and 14. In slide 12 you have given the breakup of the task across the 27 gas and the different cities. So you can give us a sense in terms of where you expect a quick ramp up in terms of, you know, volumes to peak volumes. What is the number and when, which are the areas where you see profitable operations in the next one or two years.
And the second question is on the slide 14 where you’re given data on the dodo station franchise stations. So in the past, whatever franchise stations you have had, how much of CNG volume is coming from these franchise stations and what is the distribution cost for the existing franchise stations. These are the two thoughts I would like to have from.
Sandeep Dave
Will you please repeat the last question?
S. Ramesh
Yeah, the first question was on slide 12 across the different GA. Second question was on slide 14. Given the breakup of the different types of CNG outlets which includes the franchisee outlet, which I presume will be similar to your dodo outlet. So if you can share the current performance of these franchisee outlets in terms of the share of the CNG volume and what are the kind of distribution cost you have for these franchise outlets, it will be useful to assets. You know how the ramp up in the dodo stations will help you in terms of volume growth and the cost of that business.
Sandeep Dave
There is a. I’ll just share the distribution of the C. That.
S. Ramesh
Hello. So we have the distribution of the changes. What I’m asking is in these franchise stations of 95, say in 24 and 104 and 25, what is the, you know, per kg CNG volume of the overall aggregate volume and what are the distribution cost for these specific stations compared to our overall distribution cost? That will help us get some idea about the cost of the dodo session, how you can generate some earnings and cash flow from that. Right. So just to understand the economics of the current franchise.
Sandeep Dave
I think the current franchisee model runs on a commission basis on the sale of CNG which happens over there. It’s. I think it’s in the range of three to four rupees per kilogram. That’s what commission we are giving to the franchisee. And for the OMC also the model is the commission is same but in the scheme, but in the FDODO scheme where capex and OPEX both buy the franchisee, we are giving the 8 rupees per kg for online stations and nearly 10 rupees for the Dota booster station.
S. Ramesh
Okay, so this existing franchise stations, what will be the CNG volumes per day or aggregate volume for the quarter? Can you just share share that with us? For the existing franchise situations we don’t.
Sandeep Dave
Have the exact specified for the franchisee but on an overall basis we average around 3000kg per day.
S. Ramesh
So will it be similar to that in terms of the page?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, for the new FDODO people coming in, they have looked at it in those range only from 2000 to 3000 would be starting for them and then going forward increasing based on the traffic which is there.
S. Ramesh
Okay, so if you go back to that Slide 12 question, you can give us some thought in terms of where you expect the Biggest bang for the buck on the growth in CNG and PNG across the 27 gas in terms of over the next two years where is the visibility and what is the kind of ramp up in terms of EBITDA break even and progressively, you know, profitable operation? Where do you see that happen across the Genesis?
Sandeep Dave
You are asking too many things in one thing. But I will just try to summarize that. Basically the growth is practically happening in the Amdad rural area, the Thane area and the Dahij and the Surat areas wherein the CNG practically we are getting a much bigger growth than more than 10 to 15 percentage growth is happening over there. With respect to the margins, yes, we will be having the cv, you know, the margins which you are earning on the cng. So that margins will be protecting those margins going forward. But yes, the EPM gas allocation will definitely affect the EBITDA margins going forward.
S. Ramesh
Yeah, sorry, please go ahead.
Sandeep Dave
No, if you tell me.
S. Ramesh
Yeah, so if you look at the current CapEx and the, you know, commercialization of the gas and the increase in depreciation, when do you think we’ll be able to generate EPIC to cover the depreciation and generate positive ROC double digits? See across all the 27 gas, what is the timeline one should expect?
Sandeep Dave
No, I think we have with respect to the CNG statements we cover it between three to four years, we cover the for that, for the cocoa stations and I see in the franchising model the rest of the things are us in the OMC model that these different models and different models have different roes and the payback periods.
S. Ramesh
No, I’m not asking the model, I’m asking for the new gas that you are committing a lot of Capex because your depreciation will go up, right once they are commercialized. So from the time you commercialize what is the timeline and when you expect to get the double digit roc?
Sandeep Dave
I think it will take four to five years because these are all for example the Punjab area and all they are new developing areas. So we expect that 3, 3 to 4, 3 to 5 areas is the time period where in which we’ll be able to recover the things.
S. Ramesh
Thank you very much and wish you all the best.
Sandeep Dave
Thanks.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Achal Shah from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead. Yes sir, you’re audible.
Achal Shah
Just wanted to know that since currently propane is favorable, but if RLMG is favorable in the long run, what could be the industrial volumes? Where could the industrial volumes reach a ballpark figure in mmscmd.
Sandeep Dave
So if the LNG is favorable, which we hope to. Which we hope it to be very soon, I think we can easily do 6 million in Murbi and close to 2 and a half million in non Murbi.
Achal Shah
Got it. And sir, like shifting would take some time. Like when RLNG is like becomes attractive. How much time would it take if it continues to remain attractive for like six months, one year or two years. So that volumes will start increasing from next month onwards. Or it would take some time.
Sandeep Dave
I think in the short term there could be. There are some issues. But I think we expect lot of LNG new LNG supplies coming into the market from countries like Qatar, US And Mozambique and other countries. So that will put pressure on the. That will increase the supply and basically that will put downward pressure on the prices. So we are hopeful. I think in the shorter term there are some issues. But I think we are hopeful that very soon we’ll be reaching new. I mean. I mean we’ll be. We’ll be basically able to sell more in Murbi and non Murbi regions.
Achal Shah
Got it. Sir, the second and last question is this press release by PNGRB where they have reduced three zone to two zones. What will be the impact if positive or negative for like on margin.
Sandeep Dave
Based on the present there.
Achal Shah
If you are talking so sir, like currently there are three zones for tariffs for transportation that will like by a few. After few months that will move to like two zones. So after that what will be the impact on our margins since some volumes will go to zone one and zone one rates will increase and which will be expensive than zone two. So have you done any of such analysis? No.
Sandeep Dave
See for us based on the present tariffs which are there, there will be positive impact for us.
Achal Shah
So sir, I’m assuming majority of our volumes are currently in zone two. Is it or.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, it is in zone two. Yeah. Right.
Achal Shah
So like eventually that will go to the new Zone 1 which will have a lower tariff than the current zone two.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah. After the this is changed with 42% would be in zone one and 46% will be in zone two.
Achal Shah
The current.
Sandeep Dave
What is that breakup like it’s 1453 and 21.
Achal Shah
Okay, got it sir. Thanks. Thanks.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Varatarandran Sivasankaran from Antic Ltd. Please go ahead.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
Thanks for the opportunity. If you see the last few addition in terms of outlets are smaller than significantly so you have been talking about the FDODO and other models and 200 outlets being currently like so forth. But we are not seeing the momentum pick up in terms of outlet addition. So if you can do some visibility on that. Actually.
Sandeep Dave
CNG station development and infrastructure is a bit. If you see the number of permissions and everything is required and when this Most of the F2DO franchisees are doing it for the first time and companies providing all the support for the application even that’s the reason it’s like going slow. But right now out of 70 odd agreements which we have already signed, 52 applications already submitted and 43 approvals we have already received means B means those franchisees. So I think as I mentioned earlier in this conversation that we will see double digit addition in the CNG station under APP scheme before December.
Varatharajan Sivasankaran
My second question was that like you just now pointed out as well answering Mr. Ramesh’s question that you are confident about the global gas prices, LNG prices coming off then why even like you know consider this option of getting into LPG or propane for that matter. Because then the cannot be more expensive than the LNG then there is no market in that respect. Right? Just now also you mentioned that in more view like you know if things fall in place you will be able to do six MSC and D and why even consider this as an option.
Sandeep Dave
So in the short term I also mentioned that in the short term there are some, some issues. So we, and obviously we see some of our customers go to other suppliers for propane. So we want to be a single supply, a single energy supplier for our customers. And if there is some money to be made there, why not? I mean we should be, you know that money is there lying on the table, we should be able to grab it. So that’s even maybe it is for a short term but we should be there to you know grab that opportunity.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mayank Maheshwari from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Mayank Maheshwari
So thank you for the call. I think the question was more related on the strategy on lpg. I get your point around the single energy supplier I think but if I look at historically you have been a bit more wary about signing long term supply contracts even on lng. So for lpg do you think you will be buying spot or you will be even trying to get those one year contracts which are currently there in the market if you buy from Saudi Aramco etc.
Sandeep Dave
I think we are basically right now looking at spot only because pricing if you see in the propane market is basically previous month Saudi CP handling to that. So we are basically looking at spot only as of now. But on the gas side we are looking at definitely signing. Pardon?
Mayank Maheshwari
No, sorry, go ahead.
Sandeep Dave
But on the gas side, yes, definitely we are looking at signing long term contracts for a major share of the mobile market.
Mayank Maheshwari
And sir, would you like. Is there a number in your mind that you think over the next five years you want to kind of have in terms of long term LNG contracts?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, as I said, I think we should be covering almost 2/3 of the more market with the long term contracts.
Mayank Maheshwari
Okay. On the LPG point you said that you’ll be buying spots but in terms of getting LPG even from the Middle East I think you need tankers and all that stuff. So you will be doing that also spot fixing or you are kind of trying to get at least the logistics side on a more long term basis.
Sandeep Dave
So there are contracts which are available on death basis delivered to Indian ports. So once we get the supplies, I think the rest of the infrastructure is already there.
Mayank Maheshwari
Got it. Last question was on cng. If you look at I think in terms of CNG margins as well implied in your numbers, I think there is some pressure there. Is that largely because of the dodo coming in or is there something else that we should be worried about?
Sandeep Dave
The margin is basically affected because we have increased the commission. Okay. Of the OMC and that’s the only reason otherwise CNG business we are quite bullish about it.
Mayank Maheshwari
Okay. So on a like to like basis you have not seen any compression in CNG margins.
Sandeep Dave
Okay. So that’s only what we’re talking about. No, no, the kpm, the. See ultimately the APM shortfall is being met through the spot and other sources of gas. So automatically that margin will be affected.
Mayank Maheshwari
Okay, that’s what I wanted. The quarter on quarter. I thought the APM numbers are reasonably similar. Not very different though.
Sandeep Dave
It is. Yeah it is. We only have a 40% allocation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mayank Maheshwari
Okay, got it. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Hardik Solanki from ICICI Security. Please go ahead.
Hardik Solanki
Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Two Question one is what, what is the. What was our GSPC volume for FY25 and what was the cash in cash equivalent? You know as on March 25th we achieved a volume of close to 12.50 mms cmd gspc for the previous year, 24, 25. And cash and cash equivalent it would be close to 2,300 for something. Similar. To the last year.
Sandeep Dave
Right?
Hardik Solanki
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And secondly what is that? What was the, you know the propane, propane to industrial gas price discount in Q1 and what is you know currently after price cut I think it has remained almost the same because the propane prices have also come down. So what, what we discount at the moment?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah. It’s close to 4 rupees after the price cut it close to 4 rupees. Okay. Okay.
Hardik Solanki
That’s really helpful. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Our next follow up question is from the line of Yogesh Patel from Dollar Capital. Please go ahead.
Yogesh Patil
Thanks for an opportunity again sir, if you could give us some CAS sourcing details in MMSCMD unit terms. Now what we know HPHT of 0.7 mms cmd DG volumes which is crude LNG contracted 2.5 and Qatar is closer to 1 mm SMB. Apart from that if you could give us a APM volume, NWG volume and any spot which you have purchased during the quarter that would be helpful.
Sandeep Dave
I think we. Devendra mentioned about the same percentage earlier of the 8.8 breakup. He has already told you told the conference.
Yogesh Patil
Oh. Our long term gas sourcing contracts for the BG is due for renewal in this calendar year. When can we get any update on this side?
Sandeep Dave
As of now we have you know extended the contracts so basically till March 25, 2026. So after that we’ll be renewing the contracts again.
Yogesh Patil
Yeah. Please go ahead.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Nitin Tiwari from Philip Capital India limited. Please go ahead.
Nitin Tiwari
Thank you for the opportunity. I have a very basic question sir. The. The margin that we spoke about, the HC margin or the leader margin that we offer in cnd. So that’s. Where is that adjusted? Is it still in our cost or in the top line.
Sandeep Dave
Which at margin.
Nitin Tiwari
You are talking about the dealer margins. The three to four rupee margin that you initiated. Three to four rupees per kilogram.
Sandeep Dave
Part of the operational cost.
Nitin Tiwari
That is part of operational cost. That’s what this guy is the top line.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah.
Nitin Tiwari
Okay. And secondly sir, basically the price discount that you. That you said about between propane and natural gas in modi. Can you give that to us in energy prevalent terms? So what is our pricing in say rupees 500 BQ vs EC propane and what is the price discount?
Sandeep Dave
Okay, but presently we told. What we told was in SCMD rupees per scm. Yeah. Basically it is the gas prices are close to 44 rupees today against the propane energy equivalent price of 40 rupees per SCM.
Nitin Tiwari
Okay. That’s in rupees per se. I was, I was like, you know, looking for that data in MMBTU terms. If you can help us with that. In terms of what is the price in rupees per MMBTU for propane and natural gas engines, what is the gap? Because I suppose your billing would be in rupees per mbt, right?
Sandeep Dave
Yes. Yeah.
Nitin Tiwari
So what is the price in rupees per MMBT for natural gas and for propane?
Sandeep Dave
Just give us a minute.
Nitin Tiwari
So in the meantime, I’ll just let you know, highlight something. So this is about the realization on overall basis that, I mean like, you know, if we look at your revenue sort of divided by the volume that we have in this quarter. So if we suppose, I mean, Nathan, if we account for other price points, which is your industrial and the price point that you are charging in more B, and then try and have a understanding of like, you know, how much our CNG realization would be in this quarter. So that’s actually lower than the headline price.
That’s why I was asking that whether our dealer margins are adjusted against the headline price or is it again adjusted against the operating cost. So that is what I.
Sandeep Dave
It was included as a part of the operating cost. It is not the, the top line. We change.
Nitin Tiwari
So top line is charged. I mean, so if you’re, if you’re. Suppose if you’re seeing the prices. 1779, guys. So then you’re going to charge your. I mean your top line would be basically accounted at rupees 79 and not.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, yeah, right. Yes. Yeah. With respect to the price, we just have an update. 13. Sorry, 13 2. 1327 rupees per mmbtu would be the gas price and 1207 would be the appropriate price.
Nitin Tiwari
Sorry, 1207. These are the current prices.
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, you’re right.
Nitin Tiwari
Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Somay V from Avendis Park. Please go ahead.
Somaiah V
Thanks for the opportunity. So first question is on the margin. So on the opening mark, you just mentioned your outlook in terms of 4.5 to 5.5 of this year. Obviously Q1 has been good.
operator
Your voice is sounding very muffled.
Somaiah V
Yeah, I hope it’s better now.
operator
Yes, sir, now it’s better. Please go ahead. Thank you.
Somaiah V
So my first question is for the margin. So in the opening remarks we said in terms of this year we are looking at 4.5 to 5.5 EBITDA per SEM. So we’ve had a good start for. In Q1 just wanted to understand what. Are we looking for the next nine months? I mean why at 4.5 to 5.5? Just want to hear your thoughts.
Sandeep Dave
No, I think there is an uncertainty with receive the Q2 is always difficult with respect to the festivals coming in and the propane prices, the differential also moving. So that’s the reason to hold the market. Also we have reduced the prices. So I think the correction in the guidance will come by Q3. Let’s see how the Q2 goes subsequently. We’ll take a view on that.
Somaiah V
Okay, so just one clarification here.
Sandeep Dave
So this does not include any impact of the propane marketing that we want to undertake, right? I mean. No, no, no. Nothing. Nothing to do.
Somaiah V
Got it. So second question in terms of the. Existing coping supply in the region. So is it by the industry currently.
Sandeep Dave
It is being domestically procured, I mean domestically sourced propane or is it. They are also kind of imported. So it is actually a mix of domestic and import. But generally. But more or less it is more on the import side.
Somaiah V
Got it sir. So I was just trying to go. Back to earlier point 1 working capital is one advantage that you were mentioning. Anything else? Because if it’s going to be more on the import side, I think from logistics angle I don’t see an advantage. Is there anything else that we can. Have as an advantage where we can. Try and get back to this 25%.
Sandeep Dave
Of the market share in cooking. I think difference would be then who does sourcing better? That would be the. That would be the. Basically the advantage would lie with them.
Somaiah V
Okay, last question. In terms of existing infrastructure and more. B for propane of the total units. I mean to what extent you know the propane infrastructure being there still or. Put it the other way, how many units or total mix in overall units.
Sandeep Dave
Which is still only dependent on gas and don’t have propane infrastructure. So almost 1 to 1.5 million equivalent gas consumers are on are only on gas. So basically 370 units are on are only on gas and 530 units are. You know they have the dual this thing. They can use gas, they can use propane as well.
Somaiah V
Understood sir. This is helpful sir. So one small clarification here. So you did mention 1.5mm scmt. So we have ended up selling 2.5, 2.6. So now this extra 1mm smt though they had an option to switch to propane.
Sandeep Dave
The reason for being with gas is it because they have been tied with some contracts with us and they have to kind of continue to use it or the stickiness of this extra one. MLS simply respond on the standard. It’s not because of the contract. It’s because many of these are, you know, export oriented units. And with gas they achieve certain kind of, you know, clarity or whatever you call in terms of. In terms of quality. You know there’s. They basically they want to use gas instead of any other fuel.
Somaiah V
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kirtan Mehta from Baroda BNP Paribas Mutual fund. Please go ahead.
Kirtan Mehta
Thank you sir, for the opportunity. I had a question on the GSPC 12.5 mm SCMD volume that we have done. Could you give us a bit more color in terms of how much was sold to Gujarat Gas and how much was to the external consumers and also from the sourcing perspective how much was sourced on the long term contract and what was the spot volume there?
Sandeep Dave
Yeah, I think what we can tell is around 50% is sold to Gujarat Gas. And respect to the sourcing thing we can say that close to 65% was on the LNG imported and the rest 35% we sourced from the domestic and RNG.
Kirtan Mehta
Right. And everything was on long term contract or is a mix of long term and medium term contracts?
Sandeep Dave
Mix of long term and short term.
Kirtan Mehta
Is it possible to indicate the breakup as well in terms of long term and short term?
Sandeep Dave
Not. Not now.
Kirtan Mehta
Okay, and what is the average margin that we make on this volume? Is it close to 2 rupee per se?
Sandeep Dave
No, it depends on the. Who are we selling to. And all with respect to Gujarat Gas we have to maintain the arm’s length so that arms length is always maintained. With respect to related party transactions for rest it’s basically bidded out. Mostly we participate in the bits and basically we get the bids from that. It’s usually the fertilizer and other sector.
Kirtan Mehta
Right. Second question is about. You also mentioned that for the LP will be tying up the terminal capacity. So would it be the Aegis warp terminal which would be the key which would be looked at or are other terminals work more economical for us?
Sandeep Dave
Obviously would be. That is the one we are. That is also one of the ones. One of the terminal we are looking at. But there are other terminals also closer to more B. So we are looking at all the. Options and what could be our inland logistics cost basically to from the terminal to this in terms of a rupee per SEM or rupee per kilogram.
operator
Hello.
Kirtan Mehta
So we are still.
Sandeep Dave
So we are still. I mean in discussions with various partners we’ll maybe in the next this thing will, will be able to communicate to you with greater accuracy.
Kirtan Mehta
Sure sir. Thank you for this clarification.
operator
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bank Equities. Please go ahead.
S. Ramesh
Yeah, thank you for the follow up. So if you look at the potential in morbid. So what is happening exactly in terms of the tile industry? Because a lot of concern in terms of export slowdown and the tariff issue especially to the, you know, in terms of the exposure to US exports. So how is the on ground utilization there and how long do you think it will take for the tile industry to get back to the normal consumption and reach that full potential of 7 to 9 million cubic meters a day?
Sandeep Dave
I think as of now we are not seeing anything which is you know, leading to. Because even today out of the total potential of close to 9 nano cmd they are still consuming close to I think 7 and a half mms cmd which is more than 75% capacity utilization. So as of now we don’t see any issue as far as utilization or production is concerned. At these ceramic units exports are already in excess of thousand crore rupees per month and growing at a reasonable rate. So as we speak I don’t think there is any issue as of now.
S. Ramesh
And if you look at the LNG sourcing given that you know there’s a lot of equipage capacity coming online, is there any line of sight you have in terms of the tie up of supplies through direct negotiations or with gspc and what is the kind of, you know, reduction in price you may expect our discussions on? Because it is well known that the LNG price are going to possibly decline. But what is the progress you’re making in terms of negotiation there in terms of tying up long term contracts?
Sandeep Dave
So we are in touch with various, I mean GSBC through GSBC we are in touch with various suppliers and we see good linkages available in terms of price. Price in terms of linkages to Brent are at a very reasonable level in view of the increase in liquefaction capacity and supplies going on stream in near future. So I think the gas prices would be reasonable as compared to what we are seeing right now. Much more reasonable.
S. Ramesh
So in terms of a housekeeping question, you have a 7 or 8% stake in GSPC LNG and that’s a loss making entity. So where are you adjusting the mark to market losses in your results FY25 1 to FY26 and when is it likely to turn profitable.
Sandeep Dave
We are not. It’s not a. They’re not consolidating on a land by land basis.
S. Ramesh
Yeah, but you still have to provide mark to market for the rate percent state in gsp. Right. So where is that account?
Sandeep Dave
No, they have given evaluation to that. So the valuation has not gone below 10 rupees. That at the price which we have acquired it.
S. Ramesh
Okay, so basically there’s no mark to market requirement. Okay, Thanks a lot. And we show.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sandeep Dawe, County Secretary for closing comments. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Sandeep Dave
All right. Thank everyone for sparing your valuable time for attending the investor call. Festive season is approaching. And best wishes on behalf of GGL Management to all our investors who participated on the call. We look forward to interact with you during the next call.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of Gujarat Gas Limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your line. Thank you.