Greenpanel Industries Ltd (NSE: GREENPANEL) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Oct. 29, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Rishab Barar — Investor Relations
Shobhan Mittal — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Vishwanathan Venkatramani — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Praveen Sahay — Analyst
Nikhil Agrawal — Analyst
Udit Gajiwala — Analyst
Shraddha Kapadia — Analyst
Ritesh Shah — Analyst
Pankaj Parab — Analyst
Sneha Talreja — Analyst
Hrishikesh Chandrakant — Analyst
Karan Bhatelia — Analyst
Bhavani — Analyst
Keshav Lahoti — Analyst
Parikshit Gupta — Analyst
Utkarsh Nopany — Analyst
Resha Mehta — Analyst
Yash Sonthalia — Analyst
Yug Patel — Analyst
Harssh K Shah — Analyst
Parth Bhavsar — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Greenpanel Industries Limited Q2 and H1 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions]
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishab Barar from CDR India. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Rishab Barar — Investor Relations
Good day, everyone, and thank you for joining us on the Greenpanel Industries Limited’s Q2 and H1 FY ’25 conference call. We have with us today Mr. Shobhan Mittal, the Managing Director; Mr. V. Venkatramani, the CFO.
Before we begin, I would like to state that some statements made in today’s discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. A detailed statement in this regard is available in the results presentation that was sent to you earlier.
I would now like to invite Mr. Shobhan Mittal to begin the proceedings of the call. Over to you, sir.
Shobhan Mittal — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Thank you, Rishab. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss Greenpanel’s operating and financial performance for quarter two FY ’25. MDF domestic sales volume fell 4% year-on-year. Export volumes were impacted since we consciously stopped exports to those customers who were not prepared to compensate us for the steep increase in ocean freight rates and wood prices. MDF domestic realizations were lower by 7.2% year-on-year at INR30,404 per cubic meter. However, domestic realization showed a sequential increase of 2.7% due to increase in mix of value-added products to 54% as compared to 47% in quarter one. Export realizations were higher by 24.4% year-on-year at INR21,822 per cubic meter.
MDF EBITDA margins at 13.1% were impacted by lower volumes in the domestic segment due to price action by competitors. Plywood volumes were higher by 21% quarter-on-quarter, although it was lower by 10.4% year-on-year. EBITDA margins at 2.5% were impacted by lower volumes and increase in wood prices. Plywood realizations at INR250 per square meter were lower by 6.7% year-on-year. This was due to our decision to exit the decorative veneers business on account of lower operating margins and high working capital intensity.
We have restructured our plywood sales team to recover market-share and reach optimum capacity over the next two quarters. Post-tax profits for the quarter was lower by 55% at INR18.5 crores as compared to INR41 crores in the corresponding quarter for reasons mentioned earlier. Net working capital at 40 days has shown an increase of 14 days year-on-year due to lower turnover and high inventory levels. We’ve also reduced the credit period of vendors to ensure that we receive wood supplies on a regular basis. Net debt stands at INR97 crores as on 30th September 2024, inclusive of the INR228 crores for the new project. Work is progressing on the new project and we estimate the commercial production towards the end-of-quarter three FY ’25.
MR. Venkatramani will now run you through the financials in greater detail post which we will have the Q&A session.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani — Chief Financial Officer
Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss the Q2 FY ’25 financial performance of Greenpanel Industries. Net sales during the quarter were INR332.67 crores compared to INR97.70 crores during the corresponding [Technical Issues] sales fell by 6% [Phonetic] at INR295.81 and contributed 89% of the top line. MDF domestic volumes fell by 4%, while export volumes were also significantly lower due to a conscious decision by the management excess orders only for committing to place new orders at revised prices to compensate us for increases in ocean credit rates and wood prices.
India domestic revenues were INR262.91 crores, while exports contributed INR32.89 crores. Domestic [Technical Issues] 2% year-on-year at [Technical Issues]
Operator
I’m sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Ramani, but your line is not… if you are on a hands, we request you to use the handset.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani — Chief Financial Officer
Yeah. Blended MDF [Technical Issues] 2.6% at INR130 per cubic meter. We have operated at 5% and the AP plant operated at 55% with blended capacity utilization at 62% on capacity of [Technical Issues] cubic meters. Plywood sales growth of 14.7% [Technical Issues] Plywood sales volumes were lower by 10.4% at 1.47 million square meters and the unit operated at 50% during the quarter.
I would say realizations were low 9% at INR250 per square meter due to change in mix as mentioned earlier. In Q2 FY ’25, gross margins were lower by 694 basis points year-on-year at 48.6%, were down by 649 basis points at 11.9%. EBITDA in value stood at INR39.56 crores and PAT at INR18.5 crores for reasons mentioned earlier.
That concludes my presentation. Please start the Q&A session. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Sure. Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] And the first question is from Praveen Sahay from PL India. Please go ahead.
Praveen Sahay
Yeah, hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. So the first question is related to the domestic volume of MDF. So if I look at the domestic volume, even though sequentially it is 11% down. And if I look at the competition, some competition also reported their number. So there we not see such kind of a fall in the volume, especially in the domestic. So can you give some indication why is it so and will that continue for the quarters?
Shobhan Mittal
Venkat ji, are you getting us?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Shobhan ji, I got disconnected, so I couldn’t hear the question. Could you take that please?
Praveen Sahay
Could I repeat, sir?
Shobhan Mittal
Sorry, can we have the question again?
Praveen Sahay
Yeah, sure, sure. So it’s related to the domestic MDF volume because our domestic volume were down Y-o-Y when the sequentially 11% down. And if I look at the peers also reported their numbers, their numbers is not so impacted especially in the volume. So what is the reason for us for a decrease in the domestic volume on the higher side? So if you can give some indication.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
[Technical Issues]
Shobhan Mittal
Venkat ji, your line is not clear.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
[Technical Issues]
Operator
Mr. Venkatramani, I’m sorry to interrupt, but your line is not very clear. Maybe you could…
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah. I will step out or something I could…
Operator
Yes, maybe you could try moving to area with a better network.
Shobhan Mittal
Or could you call me on my other number? It’s 9831…
Operator
Just give me a moment.
Shobhan Mittal
Yes, sir.
Operator
Yes, sir. Can you tell me the number? 98305… One moment. [Technical Issues]
Participants, thank you for patiently holding our lines. Sorry for the inconvenience. We have Mr. Venkatramani connected. Over to you, sir.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
[Technical Issues] which impacted our volumes. And in fact [Technical Issues] we should start seeing the improvement in volume from the current quarter.
Praveen Sahay
Hello. Sorry, sir, you are not so audible.
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah, Venkat ji, please repeat your whole answer again, please?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay. [Technical Issues]
Shobhan Mittal
You’re still not audible.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
I’ve also moved to a different location, still not helping.
Shobhan Mittal
Is there a landline Venkat ji?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah, just a moment, I’ll will check with the operator.
Shobhan Mittal
So I think better you…
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Sorry guys about this.
Operator
[Foreign Speech]
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah, please connect me on 0124…
Operator
One moment, sir.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Sorry, I got disconnected. To come back to your question, I said that domestic capacities have gone up considerably over the last two years, moving from 2.5 million cubic meters to 4 million cubic meters. And new companies who had just started fresh capacities were keen to grab some market share from competition and started operating at lower prices. So this price action by competitors impacted our volumes. And in the latter half of the quarter, we introduced a new 4% scheme for our dealers to soften the impact of price action by competitors. So it was a one-off for the quarter. I think we’ll start seeing an improvement in the volumes from the current quarter.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. So basically, you have also taken a corrective action to improve your volume for the second-half.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
That’s correct.
Praveen Sahay
And if you can give the OEM volume for a quarter for MDF, domestic MDF?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
It was 16% of the domestic volumes.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. And on the export side, now your run rate for the MDF reached to around 15,000 CBM. So in the coming quarters also, we will see the similar kind of a numbers or any kind of improvement are you seeing?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
See, we are targeting about 12,000 to 15,000 — sorry, we are targeting about 6,000 cubic meters to 8,000 cubic meters per month for the second half of the year. But to some extent, it will also depend upon movements in ocean freight rates and wood prices. Because we do exports only if they are making a positive contribution to the fixed costs. So we don’t accept orders which are below marginal cost range.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. And can you help us with the timber pricing for the North and the South?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah. Timber prices have moved up by about 5% to 6% in the second-quarter, but for us on a blended basis, it came down by 1.5% because we reduced purchases from distant locations, which help to lower the transportation cost.
Praveen Sahay
So basically, overall, for your costing 1.5% decrease…
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Lower prices on a sequential basis.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. And if you able to give the North and the South price, sir?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah. North price was 6.54%, South was 5.35% — just a minute, North was 6.63%, South was 5.32% and blended was 5.86%.
Praveen Sahay
And that is for a Q2 average?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Quarter two, correct.
Praveen Sahay
And how is the currently prices are moving?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Current in October prices have again — prices in South India have moved up by about 5% to 6%, North about 4%.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. Or any price action have you taken in the MDF?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
We are in discussions with the sales team, so the working is on, so we’ll possibly be considering that in the current quarter.
Praveen Sahay
And last, sir, on the new plant, which you already highlighted or commissioned by the Q3. Can you give some more detail like your plant — machineries are reached or how is the situation there?
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah. So I think we’re — we’re looking for a first board production towards the end of the quarter, let’s say, by — let’s say December, we should have the first board out.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Shobhan Mittal
And just to step-in here, in the Northern India, we are seeing some correction in the timber pricing at the moment, which will also be beneficial.
Praveen Sahay
Correction in the month of October you are saying?
Shobhan Mittal
Well, it’s starting now. So let’s say, we will see some impact in November for the Northern India.
Praveen Sahay
Okay. Okay. Great, sir. Thank you and all the best and Happy Diwali.
Shobhan Mittal
Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] We take the next question from Nikhil Agrawal from Kotak AMC. Please go ahead.
Nikhil Agrawal
Good morning, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my question was on the organized players — unorganized players, sorry, how are the unorganized players preparing for the implementation of the BIS norms like are they — have they already started lining [Phonetic] themselves with the BIS norms, or are they yet to start doing that?
Shobhan Mittal
So I think, the BIS norms which will become applicable early next year, we are not foreseeing any further deferment on that. So I think everyone is prepared to comply with the same. The industry has been working quite strongly with the Indian Standards department to ensure that because the norms were quite outdated. So we’ve been working quite closely to update the norms in order to make sure that they are in-line with the current times and that all the industries comply with the same because certain norms were almost picked-up from plyboard which were not applicable to MDF to start with. So we’ve worked within the department to correct that. And yes, going-forward, everyone will have to comply. So I’m quite sure everyone is already working towards that.
Nikhil Agrawal
All right. Do we see any — like any uptick in the pricing from the unorganized players as a result or are we — like do we expect…
Shobhan Mittal
So we — in fact, we’ve already seen some information being circulated that they are going to take a 6% price increase. And there has been the unorganized segment. There is a separate association of theirs, which had met in the month of October. And information is that in November, they’re all going to take a 6% increase. How much of that actually gets passed on, how much of that gets implemented, we’ll only get to know starting November.
Nikhil Agrawal
All right. And sir, you mentioned about some price correction that you had taken, like could — it was a bit unclear. Could you just elaborate on that a bit more?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah. We introduced — yeah, we introduced a new 4% scheme for our dealers around the middle of August. So it was applicable for a part of the quarter.
Nikhil Agrawal
All right. So this was an addition to the schemes… [Speech Overlap]
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah, this was in addition to the schemes because like I mentioned, there was price action by competitors who had started new capacities during the current year. So to counter that we introduced this new scheme. But since it was in-force for a part of the quarter, so the impact of that on realizations was around 2%. But sequentially, we saw a positive movement in realizations because the blend of value-added products improved from 47% to 54%.
Nikhil Agrawal
All right. All right. Understood, sir. That’s it from me. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from Udit Gajivala from YES Securities. Please go ahead.
Udit Gajiwala
Yeah. Thank you for taking my question. So firstly, you mentioned that you might see volumes improving from coming quarter onwards. So given that H1, we have declined on overall volume by 8%. So what kind of — should we see 0% growth or it will be negative for ’25 and what are you projecting for ’26 in total volume terms?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay. I’ll answer the question in two-parts. First, the domestic and then exports. We are targeting domestic volume growth of 15% to 18% year-on-year in the second half of the year and that should give us a growth of around 10% in domestic for the full year. And on the export segment, we are targeting volumes of about 6,000 cubic meters to 7,000 cubic meters per month, but to some extent that will be dependent on ocean freight rates and wood prices since we do not accept orders which do not make a positive contribution to the fixed cost. That is the orders must be at least above our marginal costs.
Udit Gajiwala
Understood. Understood. And sir, I mean, similarly, could you also state that since you have taken price correction and the volumes could go up, could we see some further price correction that could happen? Because I believe unorganized comes with a lag since it’s a very small portion of MDF.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah, our sales team is working on the quantum of price increase and we are also watching competitive action by competitors. So we’ll be taking a decision on prices during the current quarter.
Shobhan Mittal
Sorry, just to clarify, I think the question was regarding price correction. I don’t think there is any further intention of reducing prices any further. If anything, we will start looking at some price increase from maybe quarter four or even December for that matter. We’re in discussions with the sales team. So we are hoping for some improvement in the coming months.
Udit Gajiwala
Got it. And sir, just lastly, if you can give the capex number for ’25 and ’26, that would be it.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
So the bulk of the capex has already been completed. So currently I think about INR80-odd crores of capex spend is spending, so of which we estimate about INR30 crores would happen in the current year and the balance INR40 crore to INR50 crores in the next financial year.
Udit Gajiwala
So sir, how much have we done in H1?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
I’ll give you that figure separately, Udit.
Udit Gajiwala
Sure. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Shraddha Kapadia from Share India. Please go ahead.
Shraddha Kapadia
Hello. Am I audible?
Shobhan Mittal
[Speech Overlap] Yeah, yeah. Please go ahead.
Shraddha Kapadia
Yeah. Thank you so much for the opportunity. So I just wanted to have a basic understanding about the demand-supply scenario for next one or two years?
Shobhan Mittal
You are not audible. You’ll have to speak loud.
Shraddha Kapadia
Hello. Sir, I wanted to understand the demand-supply scenario for next two years, especially post the BIS implementation.
Rishab Barar
Shobhan ji, can you hear? It’s not audible.
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah, I can. I think she’s asking for the demand-supply scenario for the next two years. Shraddha, see, the market is definitely growing at a very healthy rate anywhere between 13% to 16%. So from a supply point, all the major capacities that were supposed to come in have already come in, have almost gone live. Ours is the next one. There are no major big lines in the pipeline anymore. What we are also seeing is a sharp decline in the imports already. And going forward, when BIS is implemented, we foresee that the imports will further decline. So going forward, I think it would be for the larger players, I think the situation would be better because everyone will start enjoying a higher, let’s say, growth and a market share percentage purely because the market will continue to grow, imports will decline and no major additional supplies are going to come in. Although two years are very — with the current volatility in the market, it’s a very long period to project, but this is what we foresee at this point of time.
Shraddha Kapadia
Okay, sir. Thank you so much. That was it from my side.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead.
Ritesh Shah
Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, first question, can you throw some light on each of the working capital variables, please?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
In the sense?
Ritesh Shah
Sir, on the credit days, on the payable days and the inventory days, the moment and where do we see that stabilizing?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay. So for the quarter ended 30th September inventory days were 56, receivable days were 8 and creditors days were 24. So we expect to see a moderation in inventory days during the next two quarters but I think we are stable as far as the receivables and payable days are concerned.
Ritesh Shah
Okay. Sir, in the prepared remarks, you did make a comment that we also reduced the credit period of vendors to ensure that we receive good supplies on a regular basis. Just trying to understand that as well.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay. So if you observe during the last quarter, the first quarter of the year, creditor days were 30 days and currently they are at 24 days. So we mobilize faster payment to wood suppliers to ensure that there were — there was regularity in supplies.
Ritesh Shah
Sure. And sir, you did give one of the numbers that the current capacity is 4.1 million CBM. Is the number — did I hear it right?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
That’s correct.
Ritesh Shah
Correct. And sir, corresponding to this, how much will be the consumption broad ballpark at country level? I’m just trying to understand the demand-supply gap.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
So estimate, currently, so probably it was around 2.7 million cubic meters at the end of FY ’24. I don’t have any numbers for the current year.
Ritesh Shah
Okay. That’s useful. And sir, lastly, in prior calls, we have indicated that we are hopeful of the timber prices to actually decline. Are there any milestones or variables that we can actually look to monitor basically to understand it better?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
No, there is actually no organized data available on timber supplies. So I think we’ll have to wait for the next crop, which is expected in June, July next year. But I think there would not be a substantial reduction in prices next year. I think we will start seeing improvements in pricing. But I said we’re not expecting major reduction because capacities have also moved up considerably over the last two years. So I think we can expect significant reductions to happen in FY ’27. Some moderation in prices in FY ’26 and significant reductions in FY ’27.
Ritesh Shah
Sure. This is very helpful. And sir, last question for Shobhan, ji. Sir, you had indicated that we are rejigging our management structure and there were designed exits at the top level. Can you please indicate basically where we are segment-wise and how is the business structured from — specifically from a marketing and sales standpoint?
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah. So the major restructuring that is happening is the amalgamation of the plywood and MDF sales team. So we’ve basically combined them and able to reduce the workforce size as well because of that because I think initially there were inefficiencies in the plywood sales team. We had a very high number of people dedicated to it with too little volumes. By doing that, we’ve been able to reduce our overall sales costs, sales team cost, operation cost. And what we’re also noticing is that from quarter one to quarter two, we’ve seen a fairly decent improvement in the volumes. So majority of the restructuring is in place now. What we’ve also done is, we’ve discontinued some of our physical branches and converted them to virtual branches, which has resulted in again a reduction in costs. We’re not keeping physical offices in many of the branches anymore because it was primarily required for holding meetings, etc., which is majority of the sales teams most of the time in the field. So we’ve been able to do some cost reduction on that front as well. So that was a major restructuring that we did by combining the two sales teams and we we’re seeing cost benefits of that and we’ve seen any — we’ve seen a fair bit of improvement on the sales numbers as well because of that.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from Pankaj Parab from Molecule. Please go ahead.
Pankaj Parab
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So, we are expecting a new capacity to be operational by next quarter and if the industry dynamics — I’m talking about demand and supply mismatch remains the same. How are we planning to ramp-up the new capacity and when we’ll be expecting to achieve maximum capacity utilization for the new plant of the MDF?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay. We are targeting a 50% capacity utilization in the next financial year. And possibly around 75% to 80% in FY ’27.
Pankaj Parab
And sir, in the realization front, so we see some improvement in Q2 on the realizations. So are we — we can say that Q1 realization was kind of bottom for the industry and how do you see the realization in terms of value-added segment and non-value-added segment going forward?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay. Yes, it does appear as if we have reached the bottom as far as sales prices are concerned. And regarding the value mix, we are targeting a mix of value-added products at 65% of domestic sales for the existing capacity. Obviously, for the new capacity, it will take time to improve the mix of value-added products. For the existing capacity, we are targeting 65% mix of value-added products by FY ’27.
Pankaj Parab
Okay, sir. Sir, and last question, I’m expecting that to ramp-up the new capacity. Do we need to push ourselves by reduce our realization or some kind of that to ramp-up our new capacity?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Shobhan ji, can you please take that?
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah. No, we don’t need to — I don’t think we’ll need to do any price correction because the new line is specifically designed for the thin segment. Greenpanel currently is not very, very prevalent in the thin MDF segment because our larger lines, especially in the South, it’s not very efficient to produce thin panels. So it’s a — it’s a segment of the market that we’re not really present in fully. So we will simply be entering at market pricing to gain market share, but it would not result in a price correction in our existing business in — that’s not foreseen at all.
Pankaj Parab
Okay, sir. And sir, can you please give us a broader realization on the thin side of MDF our regular kind of MFD?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
See, if you look at — you are asking for difference between thick and thin?
Pankaj Parab
Yes, yes.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay. Shobhan ji, please take that.
Shobhan Mittal
No, so thin MDF realizations on a per cubic meter generally tend to be anywhere between 5% to 7% higher.
Pankaj Parab
Okay. Got you all. Thank you for answering my questions. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Sneha Talreja from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Sneha Talreja
Good morning and thanks a lot for the opportunity. Just two questions from my end. If I’m not wrong, you mentioned that you have introduced a scheme of about 4-odd-percent in August. Has that been continuing or are you planning to withdraw it? That’s one. And what’s the basis of your assumption of 15% to 18% volume growth guidance that you’ve given for H2?
Shobhan Mittal
So, Sneha, the scheme has been continuing at this point of time. So because the market pricing prevailing is factoring in that scheme also for the competitors. So we have been continuing that scheme at this point of time. What we are seeing, we are on track, especially in October with those kind of growth numbers and we foresee situation to continue to improve. So assuming that, I think it’s safe to say that for the second half of the year, we should be in that growth number — growth percentage number, 15% to 18%.
Sneha Talreja
Understood. Sir, one last question. We understand in the first-half, you were selling at a premium and there was competition which had cut prices much lower. At this point of time with your scheme continuing, where does your pricing stand versus, let’s say, the other two leading players in the industry?
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah. So I would say we are at about — so when, let’s say, for example, the major competitor in the South started the new plant, I think pricing that was launched in the market was about anywhere between 7% to 8% lower. And then we corrected our pricing by about 4%. So as on date, I would say the difference stands at about 3-odd-percent.
Sneha Talreja
You are still at about 3% premium at this point of time with the scheme on.
Shobhan Mittal
Correct. Correct. Correct.
Sneha Talreja
Understood. Understood. And the last one, if at all, I can just squeeze in is related to the BIS implementation. Where are we seeing development happening in that particular front? Are we seeing players of other country anywhere close to getting any BIS or that’s far away and nowhere being spoken about at this time?
Shobhan Mittal
No, so I think at this point of time because — even because of the freight element there is, let’s say, a reduced interest in selling to India because it’s domestic pricing is already so squeezed, reduced and there’s not a very large gap from imports, hence we are not seeing too much of imports coming into India at this point of time. I’m quite sure that certain companies going forward and no one is going to make the investment immediately because everyone is hoping — the exporters will be hoping that there could be another deferral or something of that sort. So I think post-implementation, I’m quite sure certain larger companies will go ahead and comply with BIS, but it would — it would reduce the number any which way. Many market dynamics at this time — at that time will be considered before because it is the cost involved to comply with BIS on their part as well.
Sneha Talreja
So the cost automatically goes up around 5% to 6-odd-percent or would you have some ballpark number there?
Shobhan Mittal
No. So there is a one-time cost. And then of course, what people have to consider as well is that if the BIS compliant material is of a different grade, then a certain amount of volume needs to be produced for it to be viable. And if the market demand is for that kind of volumes, then there will be certain cost. There is a one-time cost and then of course, the cost of production might go up to comply with BIS as well. So they’ll have to factor in both the fixed cost as well as the variable cost.
Operator
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from Hrishikesh Chandrakant [Phonetic] from Kotak Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Hrishikesh Chandrakant
Hi. Just want your sense in terms of margin for this new plant in terms of — since we are targeting thin MDF, is it fair to say that at current prices or current margins, it will be lower at current prices of MDF? [Speech Overlap]
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
See, margins will be dependent on a host of factors, like what will be the capacity utilization, the mix of domestic and export.
Hrishikesh Chandrakant
Just indication in the — it will be lower at the say the stable utilization…
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
If they are operating at similar capacity utilizations, the mix of domestic and export is similar. The mix of value-added products is similar, then the margins will be similar. Like Shobhan ji mentioned, the sales realizations are higher by about 6% to 7%. But the costs are also slightly higher because thin materials, the density will also have to be higher as compared to a thick MDF. So margins on a similar operating condition will be similar.
Hrishikesh Chandrakant
The entire plant will be thin MDF? Or it will be mixed?
Shobhan Mittal
Yes. Well, no. So the plant is capable to produce thick MDF as well. But because we have two lines which are already producing thin MDFs, hence the new line will primarily be focused on producing thin MDF.
Hrishikesh Chandrakant
Okay. The other question is, you spoke about that potentially not much capacity addition in the industry. But say, incrementally if anyone in the industry or say potentially for you, I know you guys have something coming up. But just if new capacity is to be planned by industry participant, what will be the lead-time in sense assuming land is there so for new capacity to come in system for MDF, whether from just largely from… [Speech Overlap] I’m not talking about Chinese,
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah. So I think it’s safe to assume a 2.5-year to 3-year period from a point of concealing to actually to start off first board.
Hrishikesh Chandrakant
Okay. And Chinese will be shorter?
Shobhan Mittal
It is not that much shorter. It will be similar. Unless someone finds a — unless someone picks up a second-hand plant and chooses to move it, then it could go down by six months, for example.
Hrishikesh Chandrakant
Okay. And those large part of the shipping freight issues are now behind or still they persist in the industry from the export or from export as well as import of machinery?
Shobhan Mittal
No, there is — no, I think there is still a challenge — what in our business, we still face a challenge on the export side in terms of freight availability as well as cost still remain a challenge.
Hrishikesh Chandrakant
Okay. Thank you.
Shobhan Mittal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Karan Bhatelia from Asian Markets Securities. Please go ahead.
Karan Bhatelia
Hi, am I audible?
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah, please go ahead.
Karan Bhatelia
Yeah. You did mention about the volume growth for ’25. How can we see the margin profile shaping for this year and maybe for next year?
Shobhan Mittal
Okay. As compared to quarter two, the current quarter, we are estimating 150 basis points to 200 basis points improvement in the margin for the second-half of the year. And for the next financial year, I think, depending on how much of exports we do like we are targeting a 35% growth in MDF domestic volumes, including the new capacity. So I think for that we can see a further improvement of 150 basis points to 200 basis-points next year.
Karan Bhatelia
Sir, so we are targeting 35%-plus volume growth for ’26, is my understanding correct?
Shobhan Mittal
That’s correct.
Karan Bhatelia
And sir…
Shobhan Mittal
It’s coming for the domestic volumes, only for the domestic volumes. We don’t have clarity on exports because like I mentioned earlier, it will be dependent on wood prices and ocean freight rates. But for the next financial, we are targeting a 35% growth in domestic volumes, including the new line.
Karan Bhatelia
Right. And while I believe the timber shortage is still on, are we also looking to import timber for a continued operation?
Shobhan Mittal
So we are exploring options for import of chips. Currently because of freight as well as — but if the domestic prices, especially in the South of India, if they keep going up, then it will become a viable option. So we are keeping options in-hand, we are exploring options and it is definitely a possibility for us in the future.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Bhavani [Phonetic] from JM Financial. Please go ahead. Next question is from Bhavani from JM Financial. Please go ahead with your question, Bhavani.
Bhavani
Yeah, sir, my questions have been answered. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll move to the next question. Next question is from Keshav Lahoti from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Keshav Lahoti
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Sir, how is the OEM margin right now?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
See, OEM prices are currently at a discount of about 5% to 6% as compared to retail. And there would be a saving of around 2% in material costs. So margins should be lower by around 350 basis points to 400 basis points.
Keshav Lahoti
So you are saying you are making the kind of 7%, 8% margin for OEM? Is it a fair understanding? [Speech Overlap]
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Because we are hardly making any margins on exports. So the 13% margin is actually including exports. So if you remove exports, the domestic margins will be higher. And OEM margins will be at a discount of about 4% compared to domestic retails.
Keshav Lahoti
Because my understanding was OEM business like what I understand earlier you guided something like 3%, 4% or maybe 5% margin in OEM business also, margin is very tight, but it’s not that big.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
No, no. Earlier our exports margin used to be at that level. But because of the movement in wood prices and increase in ocean freights, that has come down to around 1% to 2%. But OEM margins would be about 400 basis points lower as compared to retail.
Keshav Lahoti
Understood. Got it. And there is a sharp drop-in OEM mix. It’s a strategy, like last quarter, it was 25% of mix, now it is down to 16%.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
No, it was like I mentioned, due to price action by competitors, but we are slowly recovering that.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Parikshit Gupta from Fair Value Capital. Please go ahead.
Parikshit Gupta
Hello, am I audible?
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah. Please go ahead.
Parikshit Gupta
Thank you very much for the opportunity. And this question is a question that I’ve been asking across-the-board. It relates to the demand of MDF and the demand-supply scenario. So we all understand a structural shift to MDF, but we are based in New Delhi, so we had the opportunity to speak with a couple of multi-brand dealers and distributors of engineering wood products. And one synonymous feedback was the fact of customers being more budget savvy instead of being brand savvy because of which when they come in, they ask, they tell us that, okay, I’m remodeling my house and this is my budget. So it is at the sole discretion of the dealer, which product to offer and given that there is existence of the unorganized players, MDF in the market, although the difference in quality, be it in terms of longevity or water resistance is absolutely clear. But since they are more budget savvy and currently, there is a significant price difference between the organized and the unorganized product. Can you please comment on the medium to long-term evolution of this market scenario?
Shobhan Mittal
So I think it’s not fair to see that because of budget reasons client or a customer could shift from a branded to an unbranded. I think within the branded segment, it’s a safe assumption that within the organized players, price becomes a very important factor. Within the unorganized players, price becomes a very important factor. But I don’t see a situation where a customer who is in the market to buy a branded product, whether it is us, whether it’s Greenply, whether it’s Century or action for that matter will move to an unbranded segment.
I think in terms of competition within the unbranded segment, there is also very, very strong competition going on. So it is not also that the dealers are getting a higher-margin when they are selling the unbranded segment product because there are a lot of players in that segment and cut-off [Phonetic] competition is there. So I think it’s not safe to assume that people will move from an organized or unorganized brand because of pricing.
Parikshit Gupta
I understand. That was helpful. Thank you very much and best wishes for the season.
Operator
Thank you.
Shobhan Mittal
Thank you so much, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from Utkarsh Nopany from Bobcaps. Please go ahead.
Utkarsh Nopany
Yeah, hi sir. Sir, I have two questions. First on the MDF pricing side. So like you have mentioned that we have provided additional incentives of 4% in August month because of the competitive pricing action despite imports remaining weak. So if import starts catching up then whether there is a possibility that the price hike in MDF sector looks difficult at least for the next few quarters from here onwards.
Shobhan Mittal
I think the trend that we are seeing with imports, with the freight challenges remaining in place and with BIS approaching, I think most of the, let’s see the segments where imports was largely being consumed, they accepted the fact that it’s a better option to buy from the domestic players. There is too much volatility in the import business. Lead times are higher. So that is why you see majority of the OEMs now there’s been a sharp reduction in imports in the segment and I think most of the domestic players are now, you know, following. You know we are exporting just to contribute towards our margins. Right.
Anything above marginal cost, we’re exporting. To compete with imports the prices will always be higher than export. So it’s not like we’re not geared to compete with the, with the imports coming into the country. The moment it starts picking up, we will be in a position to compete with them. Everyone has, you know, below optimal utilizations in their capacities right now. So we don’t foresee a challenge of imports drastically picking up. We’re very much ready to counter that.
Utkarsh Nopany
Okay sir, My second question is on the growth capex part, like we have a pretty strong balance sheet even at this stressed industry scenario. So wanted to know when we can expect to hear from you on our next growth capex plan and whether we would be looking forward to enter into any new product category to diversify our business risk profile going forward.
Shobhan Mittal
So you see our MDF line at the moment, the new one is just about to start. So I’m quite certain that for the next two years we will not be investing any further in the MDF line. The idea would be to optimize the existing business. The new line needs to settle down and the volume and the product mix needs to come to optimal levels. So quite certain that for the next two years on the MDF side there will be no further investment. The plywood business is something, as I mentioned in our earlier calls, is something we are picking up quite strongly. We want, you know, we’re too small a player and we don’t want to remain small in this business.
We also Want to have two established businesses to be generating cash flows for us. So we’ve always said that once the existing volumes of the plywood business comes to an optimal level that is an option for us to increase our plywood capacities in which we may look at investing into the plywood business next year. But that again is not a very large investment because plywood fortunately asset to revenue ratios are quite lucrative. So that is the next investment that we may look at. So at this point of time this is what our capex plans are for at least till the next financial year.
Utkarsh Nopany
Yeah. Okay. Got it sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you.
Shobhan Mittal
Thank you.
Operator
Next question is from Resha Mehta from GreenEdge Wealth. Please go ahead.
Resha Mehta
Yeah, thank you. So the first question is on the export volume. So is the reason for decline in export volumes in MDF only the higher freight rate or are there some other reasons also? And a related question is that also the decline for imports in MDF into India? Again the reason there is only freight rate, high freight rates, higher lead times or are there some other reasons also?
Shobhan Mittal
So Resha, firstly with regards to the decline in our export volumes as we noticed that our realizations in exports have gone up because we took a price increase in exports. Now when primarily our exports are going to the Middle East countries and here we are competing with countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia who are exporting to these countries as well. So there are two reasons why exports have reduced. A, our timber prices have gone up. B, the freight element also has gone up.
So what we calculate is on an FOB basis we should be making a positive contribution towards our fixed cost as Mr. Venkat has already mentioned. Right. From a client’s perspective we have a baseline FOB price. The client in turn sees the freight cost from India and compares it with the landed cost from the other countries. There are certain customers who are still choosing to buy from us. They are willing to accept the price. But again there is a segment of customers who are very, very price conscious and do not care where the product is from or what quality it is. So that is why, you know, export volumes have gone down because we’ve taken a price increase. That’s number one.
Number two, Sorry, can you repeat your second question again?
Resha Mehta
Yeah, so it was a related one basically. And is that also the reason for decline in imports of MDF into India? The higher freight rate and the higher lead times.
Shobhan Mittal
So, I think again it’s a mix of both. As I mentioned today companies are choosing to export. So OEM segment where majority of the imports are coming in is still a better business for us than exporting. Today cost of imports have gone up because of freight and the domestic producers have reduced the prices to this particular segment. They try to minimize the difference in pricing. So if a customer can buy maybe at a 3%, 4%, 5% premium as opposed to importing, then they much rather prefer to buy from the domestic producers.
So there’s two reasons. We reduce our prices to the segment and the cost of exports have gotten. Hence we see a decline in the imports.
Resha Mehta
Okay, so just to summarize. Basically, we have become, we as in at the industry has become less competitive in the overseas market, while at the same time in the OEM space we have become tried to become more competitive versus the imports that are coming. Right, so yes.
Shobhan Mittal
Yes, you can say that. Yes, correct.
Resha Mehta
Right. And the second question is, you know, so see again on this, sorry to harp on this again on the demand supply scenario, right. If I were to look at the supply which is 4 million CBM and 2.6 million CBM or thereabouts, is the demand at an industry level again here, if you could just break it down into what is the export demand versus what is the domestic demand and if you can help me reconcile that, all this new capacity that has come in even for us, which plans to come in. Right. How is that going to be absorbed both in the domestic market and in the export market without any major destruction to these realizations?
Shobhan Mittal
Venkat ji, can you take that.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah, it’s obviously going to take time, you know, because there’s still about 30% gap between capacities available and the demand situation. So probably it will take anywhere between two to three years for this gap to, you know, go off. So, yes, but you know, I think domestic players have come to the realization, you know, that reducing prices is not the way because you are already down to minimum margins and in MDF, low margin is very negative because the asset turnover ratio is also very low as compared to other building material products.
I think now it will be more structured competition. People will not try to gain market share by cutting prices. And as the, and you know, demand situation is still healthy in the sense that we are going at about 14% to 16% per annum. So over a period of two to three years, this gap will narrow down considerably or completely evaporate.
Resha Mehta
Got it. And how much of this demand would be from exports currently like of the 2.7 million demand?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
So almost negligible, you know, because we and Rushil who are based in South — South of India are the only exporters. Players from north India cannot export because the domestic transportation from plants in the north to, you know, the western ports, Mumbai or Gujarat would be about 25% of realization. It’s not economical to export from northern India.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Yash Sonthalia from Buoyant Capital. Please go ahead.
Yash Sonthalia
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So few questions to better understand thin MDF market. So how much of the domestic demand is catered by export and how much by domestic players and what will be the realization difference between the export coming and the prices which we will be planning to sell from our new plant?
Shobhan Mittal
So, Venkat, can you take that please.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Sorry, sorry, please, please repeat that. Sorry.
Yash Sonthalia
So wanted to understand better on the thin MDF market. So how much of the domestic demand is catered by export players and how much by the domestic players and what will be the price difference between the export products and what we will be planning to sell our products?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Sorry, you’re referring to the imports you mean to say, right, like imports coming into the country?
Yash Sonthalia
Yeah, that’s correct, yeah.
Shobhan Mittal
So as Mr. Venkat said, majority, I think the market size for imports today is not very large primarily because domestic prices are already quite at a low point and of the total market size I would say about 30% to 35% is focused towards the thin panels and majority of that is being catered to by the domestic players. There are certain unorganized players who are solely focusing on thin MDF as well. So from a pricing point we will be at par with with the domestic organized segment. We won’t be any lower. And as I mentioned, imports are not really a very big factor to consider in that particular sector.
Yash Sonthalia
Got it. Sir, when we are saying we will be able to sweat our capacity to 50% next year, so how we are planning to do that by a lower realization from the domestic players or?
Shobhan Mittal
No, it’s not, you know, so at the moment a lot of the, you know, for example in the south of India a lot of the thin panels are being catered to by the north players and they’re not very competitive for example. So you know, we will be, you know, our pricing can be slightly better than them with a much better margin as opposed to, you know, the northern players supplying to the south. So by, also, you know, our overall fixed cost in the — in the plant will be much lower because we have two large lines running in the same location. So keeping that in mind, I think we will be able to have better margins as opposed to, you know, our competition. And it’s, you know, we are known for a very high turnaround, very quick turnaround, serviceability, quality. So that would also give us an edge.
Operator
Thank you. We will move to the next question. Next question is from Yug Patel from Anand Rathi Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Yug Patel
Hello.
Shobhan Mittal
Yeah, please go ahead.
Yug Patel
Yeah, most of my answers –questions have been answered. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We’ll take the next question from Harssh Shah from Dalal & Broacha. Please go ahead.
Harssh K Shah
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Just wanted a clarification. When you said 150 to 200 basis point of margin improvement, that was H2 versus H1, is that correct?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
No. H2 versus quarter two.
Harssh K Shah
H2 versus quarter two. Okay, so then for the full year, is the assumption correct that the existing capacity EBITDA margin would be somewhere around 14% to 15% for the full year?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
That’s correct. That’s correct.
Harssh K Shah
Okay. And just one thing. On the gross margin, okay, so this quarter around we saw our timber pricing on a sequential basis going down by somewhere around 1% to 1.5%. Right. And also our product mix improves sequentially. So what explains the dip in the gross margins then?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Could you please repeat that?
Harssh K Shah
Yeah, sure. So what I’m asking is on the gross margin front, so two things happened this quarter. One was the timber sourcing for this quarter was lower by 1% to 1.5% on a sequential basis. And secondly, our product mix in terms of value added products was much better on a Q-o-Q basis. So what I’m trying to understand is what has led to a dip in.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay, I got your question. I got your question. See, the realization may have been higher because of a better product mix, you know, but for the value added products, the cost is also higher as compared to the normal industrial or commercial material. You know, so that’s the reason why, in spite of, you know, even higher realization. Because, you know, for the mix of value added products, the realization is almost 40% higher as compared to the normal product. But that 40% in incremental realization does not flow to the margins. Okay, so majority of that is also, you know, compensated by a higher cost for the value added product. That is the reason why we saw dip in the gross margin.
Harssh K Shah
Correct. So then the sourcing, the timber sourcing, so the benefit we have not fully flown down to the numbers. Is that correct then?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Yeah, that’s correct. Because like remember I mentioned during the call that you know, although the realization has improved sequentially but for the industrial and the commercial product, you know, the realization has gone down by 2% quarter on quarter. [Speech Overlap] We introduced a 4% scheme which was operational for a part of the quarter.
Harssh K Shah
Okay.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Sorry, I’m just going to step in here to clarify one more thing. You know, timber is one element of the cost at the moment. To keep timber prices down, we are buying different species of timber. You know, we’re buying mango, we’re buying cashew because availability of eucalyptus has gone down drastically. So when we mix different grades or different species of timbers, even though we’re able to purchase the timber at a lower cost, it could also result in a higher, for example resin consumption, you know, because different species react differently in terms of. So that could also be a reason, you know, why it’s not a direct relation to timber cost and gross margins, for example.
Shobhan Mittal
And also during the second quarter which is a monsoon dominated, the wood which comes to our plants has a higher moisture content, you know. So that also impacts the raw material because you are consuming more wood to get the same quantity of finished product. Product because the moisture content is higher during the second quarter.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from Parth Bhavsar from Investec. Please go ahead.
Parth Bhavsar
Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So I have a few questions. So first one on competition. So we believe Infra.Market, has taken over the capacity of Shirdi Industry. So wanted to understand what is Shirdi Industries capacity. And the second thing we highlighted that imports have gone down drastically over the last few quarters. So if you could throw some numbers from December to now, what is like per month import number, what does it look like?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Okay, the per month import number I’ll share with you separately, it will take time. So just to give you an indication, you know. So if you look at the last financial year, imports on an average were about 35,000 cubic meters per month. During the first quarter of the year they were about 18,000 cubic meters per month. And during the second quarter they were approximately in a range of 8,000 to 10,000 cubic meters per month. And the second question regarding Shiridi Industries and Infra.Market, so Shoban ji, can you please take that?
Shobhan Mittal
So as far as I know Shiridi’s capacity was about 200 to 250 cubic meters per day on the MDF side.
Parth Bhavsar
Okay, perfect. And sir just [Speech Overlap]
Shobhan Mittal
How much of that is currently being utilized I don’t know.
Parth Bhavsar
That’s fair. Just wanted to understand the capacity and the other thing related to import. So wanted to understand like — wanted to understand the import parity math. So what would be the landed cost for MDF right now and in dollar terms.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
For imports?
Parth Bhavsar
Landed cost for imports? Yes.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
I would assume with the freight it should be somewhere around $195 to $200 in India.
Parth Bhavsar
So this is including freight. So how much? If you could just like help me with the freight cost separately, it would be really great. It would be like $40 to $50 per CBM.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
No, I. No, no, I don’t think it will be that much. I think it would probably be about $25 to $30.
Parth Bhavsar
$25 to $30. Okay. Okay. One other thing. Just like on the industry level, wanted to understand. So we operate at, you know, a very low working capital days versus plywood. So if you could, you know, help me understand why is that the case? Like what variables, you know, what are the variables, you know, that push down our working capital days versus plywood industry.
Shobhan Mittal
So I think, you know, as. Sorry Venkat, are you taking it?
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
No, no, you take it.
Shobhan Mittal
I think we managed to be disciplined from as an early entrant in the industry, you know, although we were still part of a plywood company, I think we were able to sort of define the terms at that point of time. Being one of the early players and having a separate marketing policy and marketing team. Unfortunately, the industry has followed suit. At least the organized players have. So especially on the credit days, the industry has been quite disciplined. I think the fact that there are fewer large players in this industry has also resulted in a little bit more discipline in terms of the credit days which resulted in lower working capital investment in the business in general. And I think that’s the reason. Because from a point of inventory, from a point of raw material, from a point of finished goods inventories and raw materials, it’s not very different. The major difference comes on the credit day side.
Parth Bhavsar
Yeah, got it, sir. Thank you so much for answering my questions. Thank you.
Shobhan Mittal
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. We will take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference back to the management team for closing comments.
Shobhan Mittal
We thank everyone for joining us on this call. If anyone has any further follow up questions, we please ask you to reach out to us and we look forward to speaking to you again at the end of next quarter. Thank you.
Vishwanathan Venkatramani
Thank you everyone and wish you all a very happy and prosperous Diwali in advance. Thank you.
Shobhan Mittal
Wish everyone a happy Diwali. Thank you.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]