Goodluck India Ltd (NSE: GOODLUCK) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 23, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Mahesh Chandra Garg — Chairman
Ram Agarwal — Chief Executive Officer
Sanjay Bansal — Chief Financial Officer
Unidentified Speaker
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Tushar Gupta — Analyst
Jainis Chheda — Analyst
Rohan Patel — Analyst
Meeth Musadiya — Analyst
Chirag Mehta — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you all to the Q4 and FY ’25 Post Earnings conference call of Goodluck India Limited. Today on the call from the management team we have with us, Mr. Mahesh Chandgar, Chairman; Mr Ram Agarwal, CEO; and Mr Sanjay Bansal, CFO. As a disclaimer, I would like to inform all of you that this call may contain forward-looking statements, which may involve risks and uncertainties. Also, a reminder that this call is now being recorded. I would now request the management to detail us about the business and performance highlights for the period ended 31st March 2025, post which we will open the floor for Q&A. I will now hand over the floor to Mr Mahesh Chandgar, Chairman. Over to you, sir.
Mahesh Chandra Garg — Chairman
Hello, everyone. Ladies and gentlemen, my pleasure to welcome you all-in this con-call. The year Mumbai has been extremely good for the company the results of which are in your hand. There has been a good progress of the company, we have been needing to achieve good growth volumes in-spite of so many geopolitical tensions, disturbed volatile situation, company received volume growth of around 17%. EBITDA, very good improvement in EBITDA margin we have been able to achieve before time completion of our large-diameter pipe mill which is one of its own kind, very plants of that site are available in the world and for today I’m happy to tell that there has been a good response from our customers all over the world and ramping-up may take little more time but it is going-in a big way for the bottom-line of the company in time to come another plant which we are putting up the making shelves of required in-going ahead with schedule and very soon you may start 12 of that plant a 18 license that plant along with the new plant we will commission for you will add the game-changer to the company. I can assure you overall, the performance of the year, all the plants, we achieved exceptionally good performance in the last quarter of the last year.
Fourth quarter, we achieved almost 95% utilization of, which was in mark performance in-spite of so many headwinds in exports and domestic market. I think I can assure you company is doing well, we’ll continue to do well at least next quarters what I see, I can give the guidance company will continue to grow as we have grown in the past. Thank you.
Ram Agarwal — Chief Executive Officer
Hello, welcome everyone. This is Ram , CEO of Good Luck India. As our results are before you and has already highlighted your company’s achievements and challenges due to geopolitical conditions before you. I would like to speak today on our journey to transformation. As management decided in 2005 to enter into newer segments, qualifying the criteria of high entry barriers, double-digit EBITDA and product future cycle, we sharpened our skills, good risk, we took risk of entering new year, which slowed our journey, but for a better future. Since 2021, PAT has increased from INR30 crores to INR165 crore in year 2025. Revenue has gone from INR1,572 crores to INR3935 crores nears 2.6x. Your company has tried to make a diversified product basket model, which in time became multi-product, multi-locational market. So whenever need arises, we reshuffle our product basket along with product market. There is very rare possibility that all the markets and all the products go down simultaneously. Today, Board is willing through. Markets have become volatile, BIX Index showing the same. Your company has a good exposure to US, but at the same time, other markets such as Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Southeast Asian countries are available to us. So we have been able to visuffle our export market and at the same time, we have a exposure of 75% to domestic market. We have increased our sales to the domestic market. Result is before you. 4th-quarter has achieved highest turnover INR1,10 crore-plus. So in short, I can say adaptability is a key to our management efforts. Sales volume was 4,42,000 metric tons for FY ’25, making a robust of 15.3% Y-o-Y growth for the year. This volume expansion was powered by strong demand across sectors like automobile, infra and most notably from our increasing international market footprint. During FY ’25, we made strategic capacity additions, all product lines, engineering structured capacity now stands at 85,000 metric ton. The seasoned pipes and automobiles capacity now stands at 170,000 ton. See our sheets and pipe capacity now stands at 2,15,000 ton. Our overall capacity utilization on an average has been 89%, which underscores both demand momentum and operational efficiency. As your company is available in infrastructure, automobile, oil and gas, solar and defense sector, all our future promising sectors, EBIT out of infra, company is on the of completion of first order of 22,000 tonnes of bullet train and recently developed second design of bullet train and has secured a new order of 52 cores. In automobiles, as has told, we have added long dire pipe of unique combination 219 with 15 to be used extensively in-construction equipment such as JCV. Board has very few facilities for same product. As long as this venture reaches its 70%, 80% utilization, we hope to add another capacity expansion in coming years, oil and gas, the all-weather sector, Trump’s drilling sector drill to getting into contracts with and Hughes,, Oil Company and all the other companies which we can name. Solar, a sector on horizon is performing best. Your company has developed tricker tubes, transmission tubes, a 5-volt tube that is being used extensively in trackers industry. As per, GL is performing best-in this sector. Company wishes to increase its footprint in this industry by installing new machines and entering new clients to get required results. Now definitely a very important sector, there is a defense sector dialing of market a topic being discussed in every movement corner of India. Ours in a very small contribution to missile has been highlighted by RM in one of their release. Your company is in development phase of many more parts to be used in Indian. As has told a subsidy Defense and Aerospace was established last year to produce 1.5 lakh shelves M107, MM07 155 MMDI. I’m happy to — I’m happy that your company has completed the project in record time and ready to go in trial awaiting some government clearances. With all the avert, your company wishes to enter in a $1 billion club in next three, four years. Plans are approved and on our drain board, near the time we will share plans with our investors, shareholders, partners. With all above, your company is concentrating on human resource management by scaling our labor, by polishing the skills of our management executives, we are having regular workshops with management experts with our executives. Succession plan for second-line of executing is being followed. Health and safety, a very important part of our employees a primary concern for management, having regular checkups of our workforce and plants, regular upgradation of medical facilities, how staff is being followed. Environment, is focusing on that. It’s also primary concern for the management. We are trying to make geo discharge plants, green energy is replacing fossil fuels. We have established solar plants up to 30% of our requirement. New discussions are on to establish megawatt scale plant in Guzaar to feed our requirement. Social responsibility is one concern where management is working relentlessly. Health, education, animal feeding, these are the areas where we are focusing. Social of our society are some area where we are working. Corporate governance, a very necessary tool today is being followed by our team as per established laws. So I feel your company is on right track of growth and fulfilling its other responsibilities in social and legal framework. Your continued your continuous support as always we have been enjoying, will enlighten our path. Thank you. Now I would like to hand over the mic to Mr Sanjay, CFO. Good morning, everyone. At the outset. I is Sanjay, CFO on behalf of. Welcome you all for joining us for the conference on performance of the company in Q4 and full-year of financial year 2025. Regarding Q4 performance standalone, the sales was increased to INR1,104.62 crores against the INR902.49 crores
Sanjay Bansal — Chief Financial Officer
During Q4 of previous year, registering a growth of 22.40%. However, EBITDA for the quarter stood at the rate of 8.44% of sales, amounting INR93.25 crores as against INR72.72 crores during Q4 of financial year ’24. Profit-after-tax, including other comprehensive income was at INR42.12 crores in Q4 of ’25 as compared to INR35.50 crores in Q4 of ’24. The earnings per share has been at INR13.26 per share in Q4 ’25 as against INR11.32 per share during Q4 of previous fiscal. The performance of standalone during financial year ’25 was in-line with the expectations. Sales increased by 11.66% at INR3,935.89 crores as compared to INR3,524.78 crores during the previous year ’24. EBITDA was at INR340.79 crores as against INR292.93 crores registered an increase in growth 16.34%.
PAT during the financial year ’25 was at INR161.74 crores as against INR130.54 crores during previous year, registering a growth of 23.90%. Earnings per share stood at INR49.71 per share during financial year ’25, registering a growth of 8.25% over the previous year. The performance consolidated during financial year ’25 was again very good. Total income increased by 12.25% at INR3,971.21 crores as compared to INR3,537.72 crores during The previous year ’24. EBITDA was at 346.16 crores as against INR295.19 crores, registering an increase of 17.26% 13.26% compared during the FY ’25 was at INR165.63 crores, registering a growth of 25.23%. Earnings per share stood at ate INR50.66 per share during financial year ’25 as against INR46.41 per share during financial year ’24, registering a growth of 9.15% over previous year. On fiscal front, our interest cost and other expenses have marginally gone up due to increase in level of activity during financial year ’25 as compared to previous year. Thank you very much. Now we are open for Q&A session.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Sure, sir. All those who wish to ask a question may use the option of raise hand and we will invite you to ask the question. In case you’re unable to raise hand, just drop your message on the chat and we will invite you to ask the question. We’ll take the first question from Metri Shah. Metri, can go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello, am I audible?
Sanjay Bansal
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Congratulations on the good result. I have a few questions. Regarding the EBITDA margin, so if we exclude the other income increase, our EBITDA margins have gone down. Is there any reason for that?
Sanjay Bansal
EBITDA margins for the year, they have gone up rather and for the whole year, it has gone to 8.64% whereas in the last year it was less. Yes, in Q4, it has gone — it has gone down marginally
Unidentified Participant
And the other income, do we expect this similar type of other incomes going-forward or will the other income like decrease?
Sanjay Bansal
Can you repeat the question?
Unidentified Participant
So the other incomes have almost more than doubled this year from FY ’24 to FY ’25. So do we expect them to stay at the same level or they will go back to the normal levels of FY ’24?
Ram Agarwal
Yeah. See on this other income is a part of operational activity. So see this part of operating so it will happen in the future also next year we hope that it should be 4,500 plus basically a growth of 15% to 40% what we have been emphasizing for last one, two years, we hope the next year will follow the same.
Sanjay Bansal
There is a clear there is a clear visibility of 15% to 20% growth in this current year. Margin likely to be maintained because we are in the next segment in all our products. So we don’t feel any pressure on margin. So order books, basically we are in segment. So every segment has a different order book. Like in infra, we have an order book of almost one year. Like in our automobile tubes, there is always a visibility, there is no order book because it’s a visibility of at least one year. In four genes, it is normally four to five months order book we have and in the general products, it’s a continuous flow of orders, but still it is maintained at almost two, 2.5 months order book. So orders are sufficient, it is only our ability to deliver. How much we deliver, we will get more orders.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And we have the defense capacity coming in from this year-by probably the second-half of the year. So what sort of revenues can we expect from that capacity?
Sanjay Bansal
Look, this will be the first year because our second-quarter will remain in the trial and starting. So we hope almost 40% we should achieve in this year and from the next financial year, we should achieve the maximum capacity and what is like the peak revenue at the maximum capacity? It all depends on the price, but I think it should be between INR270 crores to INR300 crores.
Unidentified Participant
And we have talks about the new capacity, like a third capacity coming in. So any timelines for that? Order? Or any newer capacity that we’re going to be adding for maybe this year or maybe by the next year?
Sanjay Bansal
The capacity addition will depend on like in LDP we want to increase the capacity, but once whatever plant we have put up, it should actually where your capacity utilization is 70% to 80%, only after that we will go for any expansion right now two capex defense capex is going on and some maintenance capex will also go on and if some new project comes in-between that we will let you know.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. We will take the next question from Tushar Gupta. Tushar, you can unmute and go-ahead, please.
Tushar Gupta
Hello, am I audible?
Ram Agarwal
Yeah, yeah.
Tushar Gupta
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations for good set of numbers. Sir, I want to know, can you please throw some light on CDW vertical? What the — what is the current utilization rate on 50,000 tonnes of plant and how do you see it getting ramped-up moving ahead?
Ram Agarwal
Sir, this CDW plant is a precision most used in auto sector and auto sector is growing in India rapidly because auto is no more a luxury, no more a it is a necessity of every houseboard and I don’t see any slowdown in auto sector in India and abroad. Still in-spite of so much turboil in the US area, our demand for export products is very strong. So we don’t expect any slowdown in this year. Domestically,.
Tushar Gupta
Okay, sir. So what is the current utilization rate at 15,000 50,000 tonne plant.
Sanjay Bansal
It is almost 40% right now. And by September, we hope it should be 60% to 80%.
Tushar Gupta
Okay, sir. Sir, one more question I have. The quarterly actually saw good type. Malav, we have seen good top-line growth. Was there any inventory gain during the quarter or if there any quantity change? Can you quantify it? See, in this quarter, there is no inventory gain. Rather there is a marginal down in the price. So there is no inventory gain in that. These all numbers are operationally profitable.
Sanjay Bansal
Not only inventory gain, there has been an inventory loss losses. The price from the year went down and the performance for the company must be viewed in respect of raw-material prices going down and the price even still as on 2025 our top-line would have been almost INR4,000.
Tushar Gupta
Thank you. Thank you sir.
Operator
MR. Tushar, we’ll take the next question from the line of Mike Talati. Mike, you can unmute please and go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Tushar Gupta
Yeah, yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Yes. So sir, just wanted to understand. So currently we are operating at close to 89% utilization left and we are expecting the LDP plant to achieve 80% utilization from in this year itself. So any major capex plan for FY ’27 volume growth.
Ram Agarwal
Basically, I have told you that right now we are in the implementation of establishing the defense plan. Maintenance capex of capacity increase by debottlenecking. It’s a continuous process which goes on throughout the year. So in this year also, we will be doing some bottlenecking, some removal of bottlenecking and we will be adding some capacity in our infrastruction in our CDW section, but it will not be a major capex. Major capex will this — will depend on the ramping-up of the production of about two new plants of one of the LDP plant and one of the defense plant. So we will be able to give you guidance I suppose in S2 okay so other than this INR4,500 crores of revenue expectation which we are expecting this is excluding the defense power vertical right? Defense is not included in that 4,500 is a — with a normal growth in the other sectors. Depends whatever comes, it will be added to it.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, understood. Yeah, that’s it. Thank you. You may. We’ll take the next question from Wali., you can go-ahead please.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I just want to understand like if I see the exports have been going down from the last three years from 30% to 25%. So is there any particular reason for that? And are we going to focus on import — on the domestic front only or are we going to focus on exports as well going-forward?
Sanjay Bansal
Export as a percentage have gone down because the domestic sales have gone up. But export as such is being maintained around INR1,000 crore year-after year. There have been geopolitical tensions as you are aware the year before lasting problems the threats went abnormally high. Even there was a slowdown in Europe, but as such, our exports have not gone down with the last year we had a margin growth in exports.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you. The next question is like on the defense facility, which is coming up. What would be the EBITDA margins for that? Right now, it is very early to tell because we are just in the commissioning of the plant, but we hope it should be 20% plus as per the market intelligence.
Ram Agarwal
Okay. And the peak revenue is INR270 crores to INR300 crores, right?
Almost. This we anticipate.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you. That’s it from my side. Thank you.
Operator
We’ll take the next question from the line of Rohan Pateil. Rohan, you can unmute and ask your question, please Rohan, you can unmute and ask your question. I think we’ll next question. Sure. So we’ll take the next question from Janish Chheda. Janice, you can unmute and go-ahead, please.
Jainis Chheda
Hi. So I have a few questions. One is that your long-term vision on the EBITDA is to clock double-digit EBITDA margins. Is that correct?
Ram Agarwal
Yes. And for next year, you are saying that the margins will be maintained. So can you — rather it should increase, but on conservative side, it will be maintained, but we hope with the market going on, we will improve it. So can you share your vision path as to how are looking for a double-digit EBITDA margins, if you can share segment-wise, what are the margins and where the growth will come in that will give us a better confidence in terms of how the margins are going to move over next two to three years.
Sanjay Bansal
Sir, I can tell you double-digit EBITDA margin — EBITDA margin will come earlier-than-expected. But looking to the uncertainty in the order market, it is very difficult to commit anything as on-date. I completely understand, but if segmental EBITDA is possible, maybe in the investor presentations going-forward, that will help us to look at the picture more clearly. And we have our investor presentation, we have given that what the sector-wise EBITDAs are, but whatever new capacities are coming and when we are saying from INR4,000 to 4,500, our major — our major emphasis will be on auto tubes and the defense sector. So major contribution will come from there.
And in these sectors, in auto tube, normally is 12%, 13% and in defense, as I have said, we don’t know, but from the market intelligence, it should be 20% plus. So if you calculate, you will come to understand that what we are saying double-digit, it can give us.
Jainis Chheda
Understood. Thank you so much, sir.
Ram Agarwal
And in terms of our debt, our debt has gone up in the current fiscal. Any plans to repay debt in next couple of years and what is the blended cost of debt right now? Cost of debt is 9.5% and we are going to — in addition to routine repayments, we are going to repay INR22 crores to the lenders in addition to INR46 crores normal repay.
Jainis Chheda
Okay. So roughly INR60 odd crores of debt repayment in the current — in FY ’26?
Ram Agarwal
Yeah, yeah.
Jainis Chheda
Understood. And sir, in defense, because of the current geopolitical tensions, do are we seeing a in terms of orders or that is government asking to supply it earlier than the original timeline?
Sanjay Bansal
Truly speaking, we have to — we have yet to commit the trial stage. The government can ask only when we start, but it seems as you have understood from the news items, government will definitely want that any producer may have — instead of giving material to outside, government will like to purchase. It’s a general newspaper information. So I believe this should be the case. So we directly supplied to the government or do we supply to a private player who does the final packaging and supplies it to the government? I cannot understand your point.
Jainis Chheda
I guess government are direct customer.
Ram Agarwal
Is yes, government is a customer in India, government is a customer only. In export market, there are many customers. So thank you, sir. Thanks.
Operator
That’s all. Thank you, Janice. We’ll take the next question from Rohan Patel. I think he can unmute now and ask the question.
Rohan Patel
So am I audible, sir? Yes. Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and on good set of numbers. Sir, just for a clarity, you mentioned that you are also expecting this year FY ’26, you will grow at, say, 15% 20% rate. Now at 89% capacity utilization and with debottlene debottleneck in our facilities, you are confident that our current facility can do INR4,500 crores of a top-line with current Kevin? There is absolutely no doubt about it. Okay. And sir, just looking at our trends of division-wise, what do you think that — which are the two to three divisions that will contribute to this 15% to 20% growth? Is it going to come from precision pipes and forging or it’s again going to be heavy on CR and engineering? It is going to 5 and 40.
Okay, so we aren’t seeing — so can we expect that Shia sheets and pipes to stay stable at INR1,400 top-line? Yes, yes. Okay. So sir, when we are growing — and what would be the margin profile for our engineering structure? Because I hope all those 9% to 10%, okay, engineering structure is 9% to 10%. So when we are saying that we will be growing from, say, engineering, precision pipes and forging, so shouldn’t we be expecting our margins to be way higher than this year like going to 9.5% to somewhere near to 10%?
Ram Agarwal
We cannot comment. But definitely, as you are hoping we are also margins are not going to improve, okay, the margins are not going to increase and sir, what we have seen is that after doing sufficient equity raise and you know, for expansion plans and we were expecting our balance sheet to be much lighter on debt side, but we have seen that this year we have added debt to tune of INR800 — we — our debt on-balance sheet is into the tune of INR882 crores.
Jainis Chheda
So how — what’s the plan for reducing the debt and debt repayment for next three to four years as our capacity gets ramped-up and the cash-flow which we’ll be generating, how much of that we’ll be using for reducing our capex? Sorry, our debt.
Ram Agarwal
No, whenever we are increasing the capacity, so with our turnover, whatever increases, there is a certain percentage which we require for the expansion. So suppose we go from 4,000 to 4,500, so going ahead to INR500, crores INR500 odd crores, so we will need a 15% to 20% capital because whatever business we are doing, that business is capital-intensive. So money is like a raw-material for us. But definitely what we plan, we plan the requirement, additional requirement, whatever will come, the next year if we have good profits as we are — as we hope. So we will be taking lesser money for achieving the increased turnover. In that way, our debts will be paid or our debts will be reduced in the coming years.
Rohan Patel
Okay. Yeah, because the question is that even after growing our EBITDA, growing our sales, if we are paying, say, INR80 crore INR85 crores in interest, that does not translate into a healthy profit margins. So if our debt would be less than that could be reflected in our profit margins. We are because we are in historic — historically higher debt levels.
Ram Agarwal
Actually, we are seized of the issue and management is relentlessly working on to reduce the burden of interest on the company. But definitely everywhere there are headwinds. So whatever we propose, it is not executed as you know, but repay. But repayment we are doing, so our long-term loans will be reduced and the short-term, as I told, with the increasing profits, we will be needing lesser money.
Sanjay Bansal
So whatever, you define the debt is the long-term debt has to be defined as debt. However, the short-term debt is a working capital debt by the stocks and debtors. That is not actually a debt. More-and-more work we do, more-and-more working capital is required, it is not a part of the debt actually. A company oversized having a turnover of our debt is only about INR160 crores okay, yeah. And that only has to be considered is that?
Rohan Patel
Okay. Yeah. And sir, next question on our defense subsidiary. Like still we are doing the trial runs and we are hoping that this year, if possible, we’ll get clear — we’ll definitely get clearance from government. So like consider lot of things are in flux in this set of our business. But just one question I have and if you can explain to me is that considering that there is a cooldown in war scenario globally versus Ukraine and Russia and there also a capacity buildup in 155 mm, artillery shells globally. So with this pull-down and with VA ramping-up capacity domestically also a lot of capacities coming into. So what is your outlook regarding that? Do you expect that we’ll be on trajectory to get more customer approvals, government approvals and we’ll be able to, you know take our — this operations to 80%, 85% utilization in next two to three years. Do you think that is possible?
Sanjay Bansal
There is absolutely no problem plan eight, plan B plan C is ready. In case everywhere there is a peace and no use of this shell bum shell is still we will be using making components for ISRO and, for which we are regularly supply. Our are designed for this convert them to those items. We will be the first to do it but I don’t think world is going to be at peace yeah,
Rohan Patel
Okay, okay, got it. And just last one question. And sir, we have seen a good growth after a long-time, we have seen a steady and higher-growth in our forging division. Like this year also it has grown 19%. So can you just throw a light on like have we got a new customer or what has happened that forging, which is to be in range of INR300 crore INR350 crore INR400 crores, is now doing consistent above INR500 crores INR600 crores of revenue, how can we look at going-forward?
Sanjay Bansal
This — look, because in the forgings, oil and gas is a major sector. And with the trump coming in, there is a drill because he wants oil to be increased in the market. Drilling we want to increase. So what product we are making, 50% to 60% material is what goes to the oil and gas. So there is a good demand. Number two, dairy products, chemical products, which are in Europe, those factories have a good demand because we are supplying as per drawing material there. And in general also, in defense, however, it is very insignificant because we are in the development phase. But definitely there also, there is an increment in the — the increments in the parts which are being used in defense, like some smaller parts and most, like some parts and other and other systems.
So there is a good demand in forcing for the precise products, further quality products and whatever we make, it’s a precise one, it’s a niche one and it’s a quality product. So demand doesn’t bother us. I think demand will not bother us okay. Yeah. And just to squeeze in just one last question.
Rohan Patel
In engineering and structure side, now you are also expecting that pie to grow for us. Is — will it be more focus on metro projects, our garders projects and bridges projects or you are expecting this to come from more of a renewable side of our smaller and tracker tubes and crashing barriers?
Ram Agarwal
Actually, there are two sides what you are asking in one question. The first answer is in infrastructure, there is increased demand of metro, there is increased demand of RITS tracks where government is running and there is government has already-approved or they are in DPI for seven more bullet trails to come in next five years. So there is a actual demand — there is a continuing demand of budges in India, more government is putting emphasis on thermal plants. So we are — our one part of the infra is supplying to thermal boiler structures, which this LNT is doing and other companies are doing. So our emphasis on both the sites and I think there is no dearth of orders rather we have booked for next one year. But if we want, we can take orders for two years as well.
But it will not be a wise step. So that one thing is there. The other question you asked for the solar. Renewable, we are much, much lower what the body is expecting. We want to go 500 gigawatt, against was giving 100 gigawatt, Atani reliance, everybody is because the fossil fuel has to go down. And India is — I will not say it is at the bottom, but it is not even at the top. So that sector is very promising and whatever we are supplying, it is being absorbed. And if we put up some new lines in the coming years, I hope for next five years, there is no doubt of demand in the solar sector.
Rohan Patel
Yeah, yeah. Oh, thanks for asking — answering all my questions patiently. And if more questions, I will get back-in queue and best of luck for this year and as well.
Operator
Yeah. Thank you, Rohan. We’ll take the next question from the chat from Mr Abhishek. He is asking other income has rised from INR4 crore in Q3 FY ’25 to INR8 crore in Q4 FY ’25. What’s the reason behind this there is a multiple income like one is interest on the deposits.
Ram Agarwal
We have done some deposits in the last year. So we have under interest on that. And second is some on export sales we charge some testing and packing on account of packing and testing. So we charge some amount from export. That is part of other income you, sir.
Operator
We’ll take the next question from the line of Bhakesh Shah. So he has asked the questions when will the second bulletin order be delivered? The second bulletin order?
Sanjay Bansal
It is yes. It has been clear. And I hope in this financial year-by January, February that order will be completed. Okay. The second question is what sort of overall capacity utilization will the firm achieve for FY ’26? Right now, we had said that it is 89% overall capacity utilization we are doing. I hope on the same level, we will be doing.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. And the third question was any capex for — I mean the capex estimates for FY ’26 and FY ’27 both. For FY ’26, I have told the capex for debottlenecking, it will be there, some maintenance capex will be there. And in the bigger capex cycle, it is a defense capex which is going on. So it will be capitalized in this year. So — but any other major capex, I have already told, in H2, we will be able to give the guidance on that.
Operator
Sure, sir. Thank you. We’ll take the next question from the line of Naithik. Naith can unmute and go-ahead, please.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, good morning, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, we have expanded our capacity in FY ’25 for the fabrication side by almost 25%. So can you give some light what kind of capacities have we added there?
Ram Agarwal
We have added the capacity in about 20 distinctures. Yes, because we have a good demand for which is and this boiler support structure from the industry. So on that side, we have added some machine, we have provided some space. So that is a chemistry addition we have done of 45,000. And in solar, we have added some machinery to increase our capacity as we are not able to supply as per the market demand.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So my second
Unidentified Participant
Second question is the tubes capex of 50,000 tonnes that we have done. As you said previously in the call that the plant is already running at 40% utilization. So could you throw some light, what kind of margins do we expect from this capex that we have done?
Sanjay Bansal
This side — this side, this product, normally in our season tube and auto tube the EBITDA margins are 13% 14%. In this product, we hope that it should be at least 200 bps point plus, but once it gets stabilized. So by September, I hope what I am saying, it will be very okay. So sir, can we — so can this be taken that currently it must be running at double-digit margins. This product is running on the double-digit margin, but now the question is, it is not going on the capacity utilization. It is only utilizing a capacity of 40%. So despite double-digit EBITDA, it is not contributing much. But by September once it is 70%, it will start contributing. Right, right. Also, sir, on the 155 millimeter caliber shells, could you throw some light like what is the price per shell right now, what it has been in the last three, four, five years or how the market is turning up? It’s difficult to give any idea of the prices because it is a very performance.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. All right, sir. Also, sir, if — so I wanted to understand the sensitivity of our business to the rising steel prices. So if steel prices jump-up are — do we have contracts in-place to transfer the price to the customer.
Sanjay Bansal
Most of the time and most of the product price are transferred to the customer. If all the product be the have the increase and so the. Prices have and sir, this will also be the case for the defense orders as well. So we have not gone into production so-far, so once we enter into market, then only we will be able to tell.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir thank you.
Operator
We’ll take the next question from the we’ll take the next question from the line of chat of Saurav Raidani. He’s asking how about expansion and future plants and products that will be developed in good luck aerospace and defense? And also is there any planning for another round of fundraising good luck defense?
Tushar Gupta
Right now, we have already told that whatever expansion we will be doing in auto. And in terms of defense or this aerospace, we will be able to let you know only once this first product, first-line is established and it gets some ramping-up and it goes to the acquired capacity utilization, then it will be — then I suppose it should be done at that time.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. Sir. The next question is even excess capacity is coming for in metal coming up with SMBP and Reliance Infra, how you see shell market which are expansion in defense and products?
Sanjay Bansal
So you know there is what Europe was doing before this Ukraine war, Europe was not having any ammunition because they all were covered by and other countries. But now it is open for everybody. And a very — a very familiar question if in your — in the coloni you live, if there is a theft. So what you will do next? There are 2020 houses, one house gets set. So balance 19 people, they will get power electric power wired on their homes. So this is a fear. So with fear job is likely to job is likely to increase its stock. So everywhere, but now every country is free, they have to secure themselves against any such kind of boss so I hope whatever capacities are coming even they will not be sufficient to fulfill the demand of the fewing people moreover you should understand since time in memorial societies never have been at peace they have been fighting against each other and I don’t expect there will ever be at peace. The wars will continue. I wish everybody leave that please what I wish to
Operator
Thank you sir we take the next question from the line of Pratik Pandari., you will unmute and ask your question.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions from my side. What has been the capex amount that we have incurred till-date for the defense out-of-the INR216 crores that we planned.
Ram Agarwal
Around INR170 crores we have incurred already on this plant. And by the end of June, we will complete all the capex.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And you also mentioned that you are looking at a top-line of INR4,500, but that excludes defense. Now as per your last call, you mentioned that since Defense segment would commence the production by end-of-quarter two, right, and it would just have six months-to do the business. So what kind of revenues are we looking at from the defense segment for the six months of this year. I told you it should be almost 40% of whatever we achieve, whether it is 270. So 40%, I hope in the H2, we may achieve. All right. And considering that if I look at your business segment-wise and see our sheet and pipes contribute approximately 30% 35%. So just wanted to understand what kind of margins are we drawing from this particular segment.
Ram Agarwal
This particular segment normally, because they run-of-the wind product, many producers are there. So normally it goes from 3.5% to 4%. So is it a reason that we see a drag in our consolidated margins considering that the forgings and the precision pipes are clocking more than around 14% 15% yes, it is a blended margin because this product we are doing since 1987 and you can say it is a backbone for our infrastructure products. So suppose — so that is contributing in that way. However, it is of the lesser — lesser EBITDA and that is why we have our — we have introduced solar tubes in that, which in-turn will increase our EBITDA margins in coming two years, it will take us to 5% to 6% because capacity — because capex is not to be done, machines are available. So we will be using zero cost machines to improve our EBITDA from 3.5 to 5.5 in coming to two years that is a strategy we are. We are executing that.
Unidentified Participant
So basically a margin expansion of 150 to 200 basis-points, that’s what you are seeing in the CRC. Okay. And you mentioned that you have incurred a capex of INR170 odd crores till-date in the defense. So is it primarily for the machineries that will be for the product — for the total project, it entertains all land, all machine, all. So it’s a project and have we received the machineries at site and how is the positioning there?
Ram Agarwal
It is already at the same.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And you also mentioned that in totality a debt reduction of INR50 crores to INR60 crores is planned for the next year for this particular year right yes. Got it. Thanks so much, sir.
Operator
Thank you, Pratik. So there is a follow-up question from Saurav. Will be manufactured from same machine which are in cells. I think he is asking if Brahmos missiles will be made in-life defense
Sanjay Bansal
We are making only a part of it because it contains thousands of parts so we are making some of the components of removable are being manufactured in our portrait portray the questions of timeline so we said even we can manufacture these parts in our plant also the need
Unidentified Participant
So will it be made in good luck Defense and aerospace parts yes alright sir so there’s one more question on chat from Soham. So he’s trying to understand the revenue split in FY ’26. So he’s asking of — of the INR4,500 crores, which we are aiming of this, can we expect INR400 crores to INR450 crores from
Unidentified Participant
Hydraulic and INR270 crores to INR300 crores from defense.
Sanjay Bansal
So basically hydraulics and the other products as well like our infrastructure from our forging, forging, this LDP plant, this all combined will be almost 4,500 in the defense, whatever we get 40% that will be added to it for the next year, FY ’26.
Unidentified Participant
Alright, sir. There is one more question on chat. What is the number of shells can we make at full capacity? 150,000, right? So we’ll take the next question from the line of Vidant Sarda. Virant, you can unmute and go-ahead, please.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers, sir. Am I audible?
Ram Agarwal
The EBIT, you can just speak loudly clear speak up.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, my query was on a margin footprint, like from FY ’21 to FY ’25, we are in the middle of 7% to 8% and we are targeting a double-digit EBITDA margin in the current year, like we have been growing our revenue in the range of 15% to 20%, but our margins are not improving. Like you told 60% to 65% — 60% is from oil and gas and, 30% 35% is with the EBITDA margin of 3%.
Ram Agarwal
So what is you have not just gone through what we have said, 60% oil and gas is only a part of forging, forging which contributes only INR500 crores to INR600 crores in the business. So that the 60% of that forging business, not the total INR4,000 crores.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So what would be driving like 8% from 8% to the double-digit EBITDA margins? I have already told that whatever we will be expanding, we will be expanding in infrastructure, in automobiles, in our defense sector and produce. So they are all products, they all are 10% plus.
Ram Agarwal
So when we add-up these, so there will be definitely a blended margin. This year also we have almost 8.64%. So I cannot say that this year we will get 10%, but I hope we are in the right direction and we will achieve, maybe not in one year. In two years, we will get to a double-digit mark. You also.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you, Vidant. We’ll take the next question from the chat from Arpita Jana. So with marked lines like BMW, Audi, L&T and DRDO, how strong are these relationships in term of recurring revenue or long-term contracts?
Ram Agarwal
Basically working with LNT for the last eight to 10 years. So our — as far as we are connected to our customers. So it has been in our culture that whosoever customer we are at, we normally service as long as possible. In export, the customers we had in 1992, in 2025, we are having the same customers. Yes, they have increased, but the old customers have not gone. So our relationship with our customer is a backbone of our company.
Operator
Thank you, sir. We’ll take the next question from the line of Meet Masalia. Meet, you can unmute and ask your question.
Meeth Musadiya
Hello. Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah. Sir, congratulations on a good set of numbers. I had already asked my question on the chat box. My line was disconnected. So were they asked or shall I repeat my question. If you have any queries, whatever questions you have asked, we have already made if you have any additional question you please ask? Yeah. Yeah. So my question was currently our net block is approximately INR1,000 crores. So is it possible that say over the next three to four years, we do turnover in the range of INR7,000 crores to INR8,000 crores with 10% EBITDA margins, 5% PAT margins and without doing any equity dilution, which we have done in the past and ROCE upwards of 20%.
Ram Agarwal
No look, sir, we have already been giving our guidance. And in next three to four years, we have to reach INR7,000 crores INR8,000 crore of. Yeah. Of course, I cannot guarantee EBITDA 10% will come. But other conditions I’m not say that guidance to this extent management is committed, the blueprints are on the dry and things are being planned accordingly. But we are going conservatively each issure me that we are going to achieve the in next three to four years.
Meeth Musadiya
Yeah. And sir, just for just a humble suggestion to give EBITDA margins excluding the other income, because if we exclude the other income, then the margins come to approx 7.9%. And if we include the other income, then it comes at 8.64%. So this is normal.
Ram Agarwal
Other income is insignificant. As our volume will rise, other income will not rise to that extent. It will become irrelevant it will totally become irrelevant now I tell you suppose government interest equalization is key government on export introduces other income will rise it should have rising further but government suppose as government is under pressure interest equalization scheme is introduced and not only this government gives some, rates are bound to increase INR20 that crores, other income will rise, their percentage will rise and it’s totally part of the operational income. It is totally part of our working business — working income. So it cannot — it should not be separate business. But any other income, we can separate of any time.
Meeth Musadiya
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. And just a last question, what would be our target ROCE, say from 14% 15% to 20% upwards? Is that our target?
Ram Agarwal
This year also, we have achieved 20% plus and we have a target to go further, it should be 22% plus, why not? But yes, this year we have achieved 20.8% ROCE?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir.
Operator
Excuseumi. We’ll take the question from the chat from Rohan Bora. He is asking what is the outlook on working capital and operating cash-flow going-forward? See, our operating cash-flow in this year is INR158.25 cr in compared to last year, minus 45.9. So we are operate — we are generating cash-in the operation. And second to Sunil,, can you repeat the second question again? Had asked for the outlook on working capital and operating cash-flow. So as earlier said, our operating cash-flow is INR158.25 crore in this year. So we are generating cash from operational in this year.
Unidentified Speaker
And on working capital outflow, it is — is as said earlier that working capital is a part of our operation. So — and in this period, our working capital cycle is around 104 day, 82 crores period. So definitely it will go up by odd 60, 70 crores to 70 because we will be increasing our turnover from 4,000 crores to 4,600. So it will be added by another 60 crores we hope so.
Operator
Okay. We’ll take the next question from Chirag Mehta. Chirag, you can unmute and go-ahead, please.
Chirag Mehta
Sir, congratulations on the great set of numbers. Now this is in addition to the previous participant’s question regarding the — any further fundraise in the defense subsidiary or the IPO or so can you throw some light on that? Then I have a couple of more questions to add, but then later I can.
Sanjay Bansal
So actually, how the business goes forward, how these capacities get commissioned and they are ramped-up that will only decide whether we will need funds or not. At this juncture, I don’t foresee any capital from the market or otherwise?
Unidentified Participant
Okay. But sir, do you have any plans like the drawing plans about the IPO of the subsidiary or in the future or any timelines? So it will be — it will come, but let the plant commission first, then only we can give a guideline, sir.
Chirag Mehta
Okay. And sir, regarding this aerospace and defense sector, which you are planning to scale it up in the defense subsidiary. So is there any research development going-in another product apart from the one which you are existingly doing it or like can you help and like what I’m trying to understand is that how big this subsidiary can contribute to the overall revenue of the Group? That is what I wanted to.
Ram Agarwal
This subsidiary, If this subsidiary can go up like anything, suppose it is INR300 crore, I hope it should go to INR1,000 crores. But right now, it is premature that I can tell anything about that because after commissioning of this plant only, we will let you
Chirag Mehta
Okay. And sir, like if I missed out, sorry for that, but both are actual products which we are looking for in this subsidiary, apart from this right now
Sanjay Bansal
We will be using it for the artile as has said, suppose there is a situation at some point of time that this machine is this machine can be used for other forging product source?
Chirag Mehta
Okay. And sir, do we have orders or like negotiated orders or something like for the artillery or like what I’m trying to understand is that the moment we start the production, do we have the upscale for the uplift of the equipment or the sale orders are fixed with us or something like.
Ram Agarwal
No, I’m sorry to tell you as on today, not less than three customer every day visit our plant and they want full capacity for years. So okay. So visibility of the revenue, there is no looking back about it like anything, okay. And anybody certainly demand coming down, I don’t see any problems.
Chirag Mehta
Okay. And like, sir, what is the maximum utilization which we will be able to achieve and what will be the timeline in the defense subsidiary?
Ram Agarwal
Sorry little future, I’m am awaiting trial production to start any day subject to the license which is awaited any day which is any day, any hours you can call.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. Okay. That’s all done. Thanks a lot and good luck to you and us as well.
Operator
Thank you. Okay, Chirag. We’ll take a follow-up question from Patein. Don, you can go-ahead, please?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for the follow-up opportunity. Sir, just last two questions. Sir, when we say we are currently utilizing our large-diameter pipes facility at 40% rate, like are we supplying the samples and doing the cold runs or we have started the and we are looking to ramp it.
Sanjay Bansal
We have started manufacturing the diameter piles. There are very few of our range throughout the world. These will replace seamless pipe and particularly the pipe will be used in-construction equipments like tower crates and these parts are mostly used seamless and our pipe will be at least 30% cheaper than that we will be making ready-to-use pipes by we are the honing ready-to-use as components.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So we are ready with the facility we are adding with the run also. Now it’s just about we ramping-up. We have customer approval in-place, we have the order book in-place that you yeah, okay. And sir, in defense, when you say that you are — you aspire to do 40% capacity utilization in this year, the defined subsidiary part. So where does that confidence comes from? Like do you have certain approvals from customers? Have you correct customers over here and it’s just government clearance, which is just a constraint. And once that comes in, we are ready to go, like we have all the customers ready.
Sanjay Bansal
Are you asking about — are you asking about
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, yeah, yeah, defense, 155.
Sanjay Bansal
Defense approval will come through the proper channel the government agencies are there to approve it. But on client side, have we figure out the client side like from the client side. Yeah, we are ready from that. Client will get the approval from ridge.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And can you just throw some light on whether that would be — what would be the mix of domestic and export over here? So it is premature to tell let the plant get commissioned. We come out with digits. Okay. Sure, sure.
Sanjay Bansal
Today there is a competition that supports one total quantity and domestic one total quantity seven. I don’t know who to give you Rohan.
Mahesh Chandra Garg
Since this was the last question for the day, I would now invite the management to give them closing comments
Unidentified Participant
Hello, sir. Hello. Yeah, I have one question. Actually, my line got disconnected. Can I ask the question if you don’t mind? Yeah.
Sanjay Bansal
Yeah, please.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you so much, sir. Sir, my question is that since we are getting into the defense in a — which is a new product-line or new segment. And also the bullet trend is also, I would say that a kind of new segment is that correct understanding?
Sanjay Bansal
Yes, yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. So my next question is that since you mentioned that defense, we are not yet into the production mode because have we received a confirmed order? I may be asking a wrong question maybe, but just trying to ask you. To be very frank, I have known many times.
Ram Agarwal
This is not a — this is not a question of getting orders. Once it gets commissioned, there is no death of demand. So as soon as we get — we get trial, demand will — demand is there, don’t go any further. Sir, what is there a probability of the trial not being successful? There is no chance.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. And one last question. So considering that both these segments are new, how much would they add to the FY ’26 tap top-line in percentage terms, I would answer you the question otherwise.
Ram Agarwal
We are engineer from IIT, we are committed to certain standards of performance and we are very innovative failure is not an option for us we have to succeed we have succeed in every succeed does it answer your question sir?
Unidentified Participant
You said you are from you are — you guys are all from IIT. Is that what you said?
Ram Agarwal
Yes. Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir, I respect the IIT — I mean, it’s the gold standard. So I’ll take your word. Thank you so much and all the best.
Unidentified Speaker
Don’t worry Mr Harsh has a question. He’s unable to raise hand. Harsh, can you go-ahead?
Unidentified Participant
Hi, thanks for taking my question. What I wanted to ask was regards to our expansion strategy, like in the future for any expansion that we do, are we — like do we plan to fund it through internal accruals or are we open for further dilution here as
Sanjay Bansal
Well so first criteria is to do through internal accruals of dilution of equity is a loss source.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. Okay. So as we are growing, then the internal accruals will also grow. So it will make us in a better position to fund any further expansion.
Sanjay Bansal
Yes, it should grow and it should go reasonably well to enable us to expansion as deserve.
Unidentified Participant
Right. Okay. Okay, right.
Operator
Thank you, Harsh. Sir, that is the last question for the day. I would now invite the management to give their closing comments.
Sanjay Bansal
We thank you everybody who attended the — this con-call and we hope our investors, our shareholders will keep on supporting us as they have been doing always. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you, sir. Thank you to all the participants for joining on the call and to the management team. This brings us to the end of today’s conference call you may all disconnect now thank you.