Goldiam International Ltd (NSE: GOLDIAM) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 11, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Rashesh M. Bhansali — Executive Chairman
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali — Managing Director
Analysts:
Bhavya Gandhi — Analyst
Dixit Doshi — Analyst
Aman Vij — Analyst
Tanay — Analyst
Ankush Agrawal — Analyst
Akshay Jogani — Analyst
Rupesh Tatia — Analyst
Keval Shah — Analyst
Anant Jain — Analyst
Bharat Gianani — Analyst
Aagam Sanghvi — Analyst
Sunil Shah — Analyst
Daksh Malhotra — Analyst
Rupam Jaiswal — Analyst
Presentation:
Rashesh M. Bhansali — Executive Chairman
[Starts Abruptly] amount of shipments delays during the previous quarter. Goldian’s efforts to improve wallet share amongst its existing customers has translated in better revenue growth even as the US Jewelry market remained more or less stagnant. Factors such as increased LGD jewelry contribution are quick time to market, innovative designs and effective procurement of diamonds are helping us in protecting and strengthening our margins.
Our EBITDA for Q3 at rupees 708 million increased by 62% year on year and 105% quarter on quarter whereas nine month EBITDA at rupees 1397 grew by 39% year on year. EBITDA margin for Q3 is at an all time high of 24.6%. Nine month EBITDA margin too remains extremely healthy at 23.3%.
Q3 profit after tax at rupees 498 million is up by 54% year on year and 125% quarter on quarter. Profit after tax for nine months at rupees 939 million is up by 28% as well. Cash and cash equipment equivalence including investments at rupees 2759 million as on 12-31-2024.
The Board of Directors of the company have also approved a second interim dividend at the rate of rupees 1 rupees per equity share of face value rupees 2. During Q3 FY25 lab grown diamond jewelry exports contributed 80% compared to 58% in Q3 of FY24 to the overall export sales mix. Online revenue accounted for 28% of the revenue during Q3FY25.
About 74% of the inventory of finished jewelry as on 12-31-2024 is with customers as finished goods of jewelry to be sold in subsequent months to their consumers. Goldian’s order book position as on 12-31-2024 stands at about 1,750 million. This order book also will be fulfilled within the next three to four months.
Now gentlemen, let me give you an update on our Indian B2B brand origam. As you know, Goldiam opens its opened its first store origin joining the festive season of Diwali to the great customers response. Subsequently Goldiam opened another store at Kharghar Navi Mumbai in December.
We recently opened our Mumbai flagship store in the key jewelry market of Turner Road in Bandra as well marking our entry into one of the most prestigious shopping destinations in our country. We hope this establishes Origam’s brand and promise as we roll out more stores Nationally. In near future, Voldem will open three more Origam stores in Mumbai.
By March 2025 these stores will come up at Andheri West, Mulund west and at Fairmont hotel near Terminal 2 of Mumbai International Airport. Following these openings, the company plans to open more stores in Delhi NCR region. Recently we have also launched a dedicated commerce website for Origam under the domain www.origemindia.com.
The website is witnessing good customer traffic as well. With the robust nine month numbers, we hope to close FY25 with decent annual growth in revenue as well as Prof. Let me also emphasize that there is no further room for decline in lab grown diamond prices.
We have a roadmap and resources for making Origam India’s largest lab grown diamond jewelry brand and we are progressing well on that front. With that overview, I am happy to open the floor for questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on your touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Bhavya Gandhi with Dalal and roachastroking. Please go ahead.
Bhavya Gandhi
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, my first question is regarding the outlook for B2B business. So overall you are hearing in the diamond industry that it’s going through a rough time. So if you can provide at least outlook for next 2, 3/4, how is it going to pan out and is there any impact of tariffs? Tariffs when it comes to diamonds, natural or lateral? Yeah.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Thank you Bhavya for your question. Now the diamond industry is the loose diamond industry which generates or which manufactures natural diamonds. As you are aware, natural diamonds is no more a store of wealth and that’s where demand has decreased due to the increased demand in lab grown diamonds which is a much more cost effective way of consumers buying diamonds which is chemically, physically and optically the actual same thing.
So the clear shift of demand from natural diamonds to lab grown diamonds is very evident and that is why the diamond industry, which is the loose diamond industry, which Goldiam is not a part of, right is affected.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
And another question on you know, how do you see the coming couple of quarters? Well we already have said that we have 175 crore order book and so the order visibility for the next quarter is very strong.
This is higher than what we did same time last year. Right. And I think we will be capable and to really get there and you know, increase it as well.
We see huge growth and demand for Labran diamond jewelry within our customers. We are actually now seeing customers asking us for diamond sizes which are 5 carat to 10 carat. While earlier it was from 1 carat to 5 carat.
So there are very, very good chances that Goldiam’s business will maintain and grow further.
Bhavya Gandhi
Got it. Fair enough. Just wanted to understand, if you look at the natural diamond as average realization that has increased sharply to 16% QoQ even in $ terms and even in rupee terms it has increased 17%. So what has led to this growth in natural diamond average realization?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
So we had earlier goods on memo which clearly is selling down. So that helps to increase the revenue share out there. And again you’ve seen the rupee being depreciated at a certain point. So probably that’s again another reason why you’ve seen that happening. And we’ve been using slightly since diamond prices and natural diamonds have also gone down. All the new orders that are coming we’re getting for better quality which is a higher ticket size.
Bhavya Gandhi
Okay, got it. And with respect to our retail store, what has been the total revenue till now?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
I would say you would want this number as on December or as on today?
Bhavya Gandhi
As on today as well as on December. If you can help with both the numbers.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
As on December I think we’ve done around 75. 78 crores. 75, 78 lakhs. And as on today we’ve crossed 2 crores.
Bhavya Gandhi
We’ve crossed 2 crores. Okay. And we had alluded earlier that we wanted to open 15 stores in next six months. But the target now seems to be opening three new stores in Mumbai. So how long will the entire 15 stores be opened within anmol. Would you want to take this?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. Thanks for the question Bhavya. So our plan, we’ve taken a month to work on the tech and the back end operation for regen. So we are very geared to now run faster in terms of store fleet expansion.
The plan is by March end 2025. So March 31st, 2025 have our six stores in Mumbai all open. That itself will make us the largest Coco lab grown retailer in Mumbai city.
In fact not just Coco, it will make us the largest lab grown jewelry retailer in Mumbai by a far margin. Post that we hope to very quickly expand both in NCR and Bangalore region and the idea is over the six months thereafter. So effectively Q1FY26 and Q2FY26 focus on NCR and Bangalore region markets.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Gandhi. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Dikshit Doshi with Whitestone Financial Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Dixit Doshi
Hello. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is regarding the prices of the Lab grown diamond. So how it has moved from Q2 to Q3 level because I think the lower carat diamond prices last time you have mentioned that it has started increasing.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. Thank you Mr. Dixit. I’ll give my comment here and then I open the floor to our chairman as well to add on his comments. So for us now prices of lower carat Lab grown diamonds are very stable. We have no price depreciation or reductions happening in any size in the Last quarter or 2/4 that is below 3 carat in diamond size. So for us now we are comfortable and our focus is on volume expansion and of course upselling customers into larger carrotage. So as an example moving a customer in the US who was buying a one carat Lab zone ring into now buying a two two and a half carat Lab grown ring and so on so forth. I open the floor to our chairman to add any comments.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Mr. Dixit, we now do not expect any further fall in the pricing of Lab Grown and the company is very confident that at these prices margins will be stable and we will grow from here with larger sizes as we’ve already spoken before.
Dixit Doshi
Okay, my other question is you you did mention about the demand in the US if you can also mention about the our expansion into the other geographies like uae, Middle east or even Australia, Europe. And my last question is so the real diamond jewelry do require a certification because of obviously reason the higher value per diamond. But do you feel that even the LGD jewelry will need certification in future? And if yes, why do you feel so?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
So I will first ask Anmol to answer the question on certification. Anmol, can you take that?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Yes. So Lab grown Judy, we don’t see certification for us is driven by our customers requirements. As an example in the US when lab grown diamond jewelry just started being introduced, all customers, all large retailers required certification to separate the inventory which was Lab grown from the inventory which was natural diamond jewelry. Today with bulk of stores crossing more than 50% of the inventory being lab grown diamond jewelry, they find a lesser and lesser need for full certification or complete certification.
Again for us at Goldiam it’s a pass through cost that goes directly built to our retail customers. But we do see some large retailers now asking us to reduce the type of certification or reduce certification completely on entry level lab grown jewelry items. I hope that answers the question.
Dixit Doshi
Yes.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
What was the other question, Mr. Dixit?
Dixit Doshi
Yeah, about the demand or the traction in the other geographies like uae, Middle East, Europe, Australia?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
So as I mentioned earlier, we were foraying into Middle east as well as Australia. I’m very happy to announce that we made three shipments to Australia. Customer loves the product and they’ve already paid us for the same. And we are now negotiating further orders from Australia.
So. So we assume that Australia, I mean we don’t assume we are clear that Australia will be another strong geography for Goldiam going forward with the customer penetration that we’ve already achieved regarding Middle east. We have sent samples and we’re still awaiting larger orders from.
We’ve just sent samples and small things have happened but we’re still awaiting larger orders from the Middle East. And with Europe, we haven’t done much yet in Europe because we’ve been looking at India as the other geography for starting origin.
Dixit Doshi
Okay, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes to the line of Aman Veej with astute investment management. Please go ahead.
Aman Vij
Yeah. Good evening sir.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Good evening.
Aman Vij
Yeah, My first question is on the U. S presence. So we are present both on the mom and pop store and on the big retailer side. So if we remove the mom and pop store, could you talk about what is our presence today in terms of say number of final retail stores? What is the present today and where do you see this number in the next one year?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Mr. Amit? So Goldie at the moment sells more to the larger retailers, but we do have a strong presence in mom and pop through our wholesale channel partners out there. It is really very difficult for us to sell to individual 11, 11 store ownership all across America because shipping cost and other such geographical factors are against the value of the transaction.
So we have a wholesaler. We ship to the wholesaler and the middleman and that person distributes in America via FedEx or UPS to all these smaller mom and pop retailers. So that wholesaler does close to six, six and a half million dollars from us.
There are these couple of wholesalers who do this kind of business and that’s the kind of business we sell to this kind of, you know, mom and pop stores. The rest of our business is completely going to larger retailers.
Aman Vij
So let me rephrase it. So I was trying to Understand for the larger retailers only. So we are selling to larger retailers but they would eventually have the final soldier. All of them have like thousand stores. And plus as you have talked about historically, so as of today our product in terms of the fine retail stores of these larger retailers. I was trying to understand that presence.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Okay, Anwar, when you want to take this?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. So if I understand your question correctly, is it how many retail stores is Goldiam’s product present in?
Aman Vij
Yes, and excluding these small stores, I am only talking about the big retail chain will each have like 500,000 stores.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Correct, correct.
Aman Vij
Everything. What is the number today? What was the number say 12 years back? And where do you see this number in the next one year?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
So we don’t track that data. But to give you an anecdote and understand our business, two years ago we were, we would probably be in 1500-2000 stores in terms of large corporate detailers. Today our presence would be north of 3,000, 3,000 to three, three and a half thousand retail doors of our large corporate retailers. And there are a few more that we see potential with but we have not started our account with them. But rest assured, the largest jewelry retailer in the US is a customer of Cold Yam and we are working on increasing penetration with them along with deepening our penetration of account with our other top clients as well.
Aman Vij
Sure sir. So just continuing this question further. So we have seen a very strong growth after a long time in US for this year. And I believe this is mostly due to increasing our presence from whatever you said was 2,000 to now 3,000 stores. So going forward now with this presence in more stores, is it possible to keep going at this 2020 5% level for next year? It’s a good question Aman. Actually I would say that your understanding is a bit incorrect. Yes, there is some amount of increase in distribution but the priority for us, which we have maintained in prior calls as well, is to increase dollars per store or items per store. So we have access to some very large customers, very large retail accounts in the US and for us to give an anecdote, it’s like adding for a car auto component manufacturer, it’s adding more components within a car. So for us it’s how much presence do we have within the retail store itself? So that’s been the focus. I think we easily can see visibility to grow our business significantly. Even with our business I think and the current growth, I don’t see a challenge to keep growing for the next three to five years provided of course there is no. At least for the next three to five years on a long term basis. Sure. Just to finally talk about this, so say if the value was expert store 12 years back, could you talk about it what it is today and what can be in the next two, three years? What is your aim?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
So we don’t have, we don’t track data like that but you know we’ve certainly grown some accounts 2x3x from what they used to be two years ago in terms of the account that it, that is enjoyed by Godiam. If you would like I can pull out that data on an overall number and maybe work on a report and sell it in a couple of days.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Just to add to that question, as I earlier said that earlier Goldiam used to sell between 1 carat to 5 carat stones to these large retailers. Now we are seeing a traction from 5 carat to 10 carat. So it is once that happens and all the samples are through once that happens and it’s very easy to even within that area increase much more or double our business with those same retailers.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Veach. Please fall back in the queue for more questions. A reminder to all the participants, please restrict yourself to two questions. Next question comes from the line of Tanay with Investec. Please go ahead.
Tanay
Yeah, am I audible?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Yes, you are.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Yes.
Tanay
Hello. Hello? Yeah, sorry, am I audible now?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tanay
So I just had a couple of follow up questions regarding earlier partisan question regarding certifications. So I understand you all pass on 100% of the cost to your customers. Is there a margin you’ll make on that also or. No?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
No, not really. It depends customer to customer. For the large part there is no additional margin we add on to certification.
Tanay
Got it. And like what percentage of your customers are seeking certifications now and how has that trend been for lab growns especially?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
So it started with almost all 100% of customers seeking certification. Maybe on the entry level styles, on the lower ticket price items, $300, $400, they, they would not want certification. And for the higher ticket price items they used to go for certification today that number is lower than it was this time last year.
Tanay
Would you be comfortable sharing like at what percentage would that be of your customer base?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Again we don’t really track it but I can show you for us it’s not our core business so it doesn’t matter. It’s a business line expense. So all I can say is that I’m speaking to customers and I know that they are looking to reduce their certification costings.
Tanay
Got it. And in terms of certifiers, do you all have any specific names that customers usually want or do you all certify with anyone that’s available for us?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
It depends on what the customer chooses. I can just share. There are companies like IGI, GSI and discount certification labs like IGL, EGL, SGL, etc. Again, please remember we are a jewelry company. So all of our certification is only on the finished jewelry side. We don’t do any loose diamonds and therefore we don’t have any loose diamond certification.
Operator
Thank you. Mr. Tanay. Please fall back in the queue for more questions. Next question comes on the line of Ankush Agarwal with Surge Capital. Please go ahead.
Ankush Agrawal
Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my question. So firstly the question is around growth during the quarter f remove about 50 crores of deferred sales that we had from Q2.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
But I’m able to hear you.
Ankush Agrawal
Is it better now?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Yes.
Ankush Agrawal
Yeah. So the question was broadly around growth. So if I remove about 50 crores of deferred sales that we had from the past quarter, we have done revenues about 230crores which seems lower given that we had an order book of almost 270crores as of Q2AD and typically we do much more higher sales than the order book because about 2025% of the sales, which is online sales, is not still in order books. So what was the reason why the revenue numbers this quarter was lower than the other move that we had as of last quarter? Hello, I still haven’t heard you. Ankush, can you please maybe get on the phone or not be on speaker line? This is your Prader. We have lost the line. I’ll promote the next. The next in line is Akshay from Exponent Tribe. Please go ahead.
Akshay Jogani
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I want to go back to a question earlier in the conversation where you spoke about your increasing order values or number of pieces per store or those that you present in. So sort of maybe if you can help us understand exactly how this works. Once you enter an account, do you get orders from store level and do you have to do marketing or push your product at a store level or is this something that client does at a system level and then sort of asks you to kind of produce as much or send as much. And so the reason I’m asking is sort of what is our lever to be able to increase penetration at a store level? That’s one second is you spoke about the fact that you probably present in about 3,000 3,500 or store. If you had to take a five to seven year, 10 year view, what kind of stores can you, what kind of number of stores can you get to? And I would imagine that US market would have significantly larger number of stores. So yeah, these are the two questions.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
So thank you. Akshay, let me answer the second question first. So again we don’t track the store. The number of stores that we sell to, we track our account and account sizes just to anecdotally again just to share. The exports of finished jewellery from seeds from Mumbai and from India to the US are very significant. From CEIBs itself, it’s north of 3, $3.5 billion. I would say that is easily our addressable market and much more of course looking at other regions of India, China, etc.
Exporting to both retailers in America and global brands around the world. So for us we see that as our potential addressable market and opportunity size on a longer term basis. The idea is to at least on the medium term basis and short term basis the idea is to increase depth of account size with each of our retailers.
So add more. Introducing high end fashion, introducing various sizes of lab grown diamonds within entry level bridles, regular mid priced bridles as well as as we mentioned high priced 6, 7, 8 and even 10 carat center stone bridles within the US retail market. So for now we are focusing on going deeper with our current customer base.
But the opportunity size is very clearly there. Your first question, I didn’t understand you because of audio issues. If you could repeat what you meant and what you are referring to regarding store level marketing, I’d be happy to answer that.
Akshay Jogani
Yeah, sure. So in the conversation you spoke about how over the last few years you all have been able to penetrate stores better, right? Essentially number of pieces you sell per store. So how what does Goldium do to get here? Because you don’t get to a store by store and figure out what inventory should I keep here or here in either of these.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Very, very clear, very clear Akshay. Thank you. So this is a pure play B2B business working with large corporate retailers. The idea is you crack an account, you open an account and you develop a relationship with the buyer who buys your line of jewellery within that retail organization over the span of six months, eight months, you introduce new product, you look at what they have in stores and understand white spaces. We have a small team of data analysts also at our factory to help us understand how what is missing, what is trending up, what is trending down and basis on this data, we feed our product design team who comes up with new concepts, new designs that work specifically for that retailer. Our sales team then goes and pitches that.
And based on success of some of those lines, that trust develops with a buyer of that line of jewellery with the corporate account. The idea is as trust develops, as your design sell better than what they have in store, that buyer is also naturally inclined to keep growing your account size with them, to keep saying Goldiam’s designs are doing well, they’re performing well. Let us increase the number of rings or the number of earrings that we buy from this one vendor.
So that’s on one side within who we already work with. But also then once you develop a deep enough relationship, it’s working with that buyer to ask them to introduce us to not just the bridal jewelry but also the fashion jewelry side also maybe the studs and solitaire side. So then reaching out to ancillary buying groups and other buyers for the same retailer and starting a relationship with them again. Pure play B2B. Developing trust, focusing on data and design is how we are able to go deeper with our existing retailers.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Akshay, please rejoin the queue for more questions.
Akshay Jogani
Thank you.
Operator
Next question comes from the line of Rupesh Tatia with Intelsense Capital. Please go ahead.
Rupesh Tatia
Hello sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question sir is the question earlier participant was asking. I think last quarter you said that 50 crore revenue got deferred. And if I take that out then the, the quarter the growth is like from 200 crore to 230 crore. I mean it’s just a 15% growth and that, I mean I think it doesn’t match with your commentary that we were expecting high growth. So can you maybe explain that? And also did some sales, you know, get pushed to Q4 due to, you know, shipping or some other timing issues?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Yes. So that was the reason why those sales were shifted to this current year. But I think the figure was not 50 crores. We’ll get back to you on that figure now. But yes, there was a lag and that sales happened this quarter.
Rupesh Tatia
But then the number seems low, sir, from 200 to 230 seems a little low given that, you know.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Accordingly. And then this is an ongoing effect. Right. So there are goods that are shipped. Right. And which is also waiting for the customers to open their warehouses to take them in. Now those figures we’re still not aware. So the numbers are there. The numbers are pretty strong. Right. And we will get back to you on what is shipped from the previous quarters and what is still to be shipped from the current quarter.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Tatia. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Keval Shah with MK Capital. Please go ahead.
Keval Shah
Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on the retail market, can you give some color how the resale market plays for this lab gone diamond?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you Mr. Keval. So if your question is regarding the resale market, so it’s exactly the same as natural diamond jewellery where each retailer will only buy back the goods and products which are sold by that retailer. Similarly in natural diamond jewellery a company like Tanishq will only buy back Tanishq jewellery at least in the studded section. In the same manner Origem is happy to buy back jewelry that is made and certified by Origem itself. We have the best in class policies which are all on our website. I forgot to mention as well but we have gone live on our website and we started omnichannel sales on www.origamindia.com.
I request everybody on call to please please check out our website and we’ve got all our policies as well as full customization of all of our jewelry available from day one.
Keval Shah
Okay and my second question is regarding due to recent surge in gold price do you see the increase in footfall especially for the fashion jewelries and lab coat jewelries for non marriage events.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you Mr. Kbot. So it’s a little early for us to comment on that with three stores live at the moment. But we do see. You know our thesis is and the reason for being foragem is that the sub 1 lakh rupee sub 2 lakh rupee jewellery market in the next five years, 10 years and that longer period of time will really boom in India and given where gold prices are because they are so high now, it in fact lends itself better for the customer to move from buying natural diamond jewellery in these price points to lab grown because what money is left over to fit into the diamond segment? Natural diamonds made because gold is so high already you don’t end up getting a lot in the lab grown section. You can get much bigger and much more diamond without compromising on budget or look. So we believe it will certainly play out very strongly as gold prices have gone up that the customer finds more reason to purchase lab grown diamond jewelry in these price segments.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Shara. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Rupesh Tatia with Intelsense Capital. Please go Ahead.
Rupesh Tatia
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity, Sir. Again, my second question was on B2C models. So you know, is the model settled? I mean, what is our, you know, let’s say revenue per store, what is the ticket size, what is the carat range, you know, how many, what is the break even point? You know, is the model settled? If you can give some information about the origin.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. Thanks. Dufesh, great question. We will be able to give a lot more color in the Q1 conference call. But I can share with you our working model and what we’re seeing happen at the moment with these number of stores itself. So as per our, you know, it changes store to store. For our flagship it would be higher. But the general store fleet should, the way we are planning it should have a break even. Just little bit shy of 30 lakhs of monthly sales per store in our three stores.
We are achieving it in all the three at the moment. And as business footfalls increase, as business increase, as generally brand awareness grows up, grows and demand increases for Origam’s product, we see the model because of a higher gross margin built in compared to everyday, compared to our peers in everyday fine jewelry. In the natural diamond side, we see that the model lends itself to being a higher roe faster store level breakeven than some of our competitors.
So this is the break even that we are working with at the moment. It’s matching our costs and the revenues from our first three stores are also hitting the breakeven point at the moment. So we’re very happy given that we’re only two months or two and a half months into this journey of retail and B2C and we are looking forward to within the next six months opening stores faster so that brand awareness increases in general as well.
Rupesh Tatia
So sir, just one clarification. So you said in the natural diamond gross margin the industry makes around 20 to 25%.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
I think for everyday fine jewelry players that are in that omnichannel space, similar to our price points, the margin would be slightly higher even in natural diamond joinery, close to 25 to 30%.
Rupesh Tatia
Yes. So then the LGB margin, is it fair to assume it will be, you know, 60%, 50%, 60% like that.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
So the way we are modeling is post discounting, we will be north of 40% and we are achieving that 40 to 45% with that also. I’m happy to share we’ve done a competitor study with a few startups which have launched in the lab grown diamond space. Origem is Certainly on the solid edge between 15 to 40% cheaper than competitors that don’t have the benefit of creating the designs, creating the jewelry and buying the diamonds or growing the diamonds themselves. So our end to end model really under the heft of Goldiam strength as well really helps us to not just maintain a higher gross margin but also compete very strongly against some of the lab grown startups which do not have prior experience of a jewellery business eating them.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Tatia. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Anant chain. An individual investor. Please go ahead.
Anant Jain
Hello Anmol. Hello team. Great, great work. Just a few questions. One thing I wanted to understand is like in reply to the previous question you said that you are already breaking even on the retail side on the three stores that we are currently operating. Does that understand and correct?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Hi. Yes, thank you Mr. Anand. We are breaking even on the store level operations not including of course head office and yeah.
Anant Jain
Corporate expenses.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Yes.
Anant Jain
Okay. That’s amazing because I think it’s just three months and that’s absolutely amazing.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you so much.
Anant Jain
The second question is in this one month since we have, it’s been almost a month that we launched our website what kind of sales revenue have we driven through the website?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Because it’s omnichannel we in fact we have deeply integrated similar to some of our, you know some of the largest omnichannel jewelry players in India. Some of the online revenue if the store, if the pieces available in store gets booked by the store as well. So I’ll double check the data and I’m happy to share that, share that with you in a day or so. We are fairly satisfied and we’re looking forward to keep building the online segment. We’re working every effectively at the moment. Every day or every second day we get one or two orders.
Anant Jain
Oh that’s good. Last question is that are we looking for any celebrity brand endorsements or any of large ticket marketing exercises?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Yes, great question Mr. Anand. So we are having our flagship store Internal Road Bandra being inaugurated formally at a launch event day after with a celebrity. Bollywood celebrity will be coming to launch the store along with media rights. However that’s a ribbon cutting and event exercise in terms of a face of the brand or a brand ambassador. At the moment we are not looking to add someone on until we expand our store fleet to in the range of 15 to 20, 25 stores. So once we’re present in Bangalore as well as NCR markets think that’s certainly on the agenda.
Anant Jain
Makes Absolute sense. Thanks Anmol and all the best. Thank you so much.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you so much.
Operator
Mr. Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Bharat Kenani with Money Control Pro. Please go ahead.
Bharat Gianani
Yes sir. Congratulations on good set of numbers and thanks for the opportunity. Just wanted to check that how is the demand at the ground level at the consumer sentiment in the US market. We have seen some good festive commentary that you shared in the press release. So wanted to check on the sentiment, consumer sentiment side on the US market and given the growth opportunity that you have highlighted of increasing the sales, sales to the to the retailers that is there deepening the business that you pointed out. So can you give a revenue outlook guidance for the medium term what kind of revenue growth you are targeting excluding the origin brand that we have and including the origin brand if you can highlight at an overall company level for next three to five years what kind of growth you are looking at.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Mr. Bharat, I would like to state that you know this year we still look at opening close to 20 stores and in the next three to five years we are looking at 150 to 200 stores that are you know wishing to get open now. You know retail is a segment where there could be a certain amount of delays in opening and getting there in times with the rentals and getting the right location, stuff like that.
So but if you see the unit economics, you know we are looking at doubling our business from Goldiam with the help of Origen within the next four years. Right. Because that’s the foot plan of opening the number of stores that will come out and I think the export market is very strong.
We will grow. We are looking at growing at a minimum of our direction is always 10 to 15% and then we try our best to do more. But in if you really go to see with the help of origin in four years we should be doubling our current export figures, current revenue.
Bharat Gianani
Okay. Thanks for all the best.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you Mr. Bharat.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Bhavya Gandhi with Dalal and Procha stockbroking. Please go ahead.
Bhavya Gandhi
Yeah, I just missed the timeline of the store openings. You said in next six months we are planning to open three more stores by March and then in the Delhi ncr what is the timeline and for Bangalore what is the timeline?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. So thank you for the question Bhavya. We’ll be opening three stores by March end. So not the next six months, just in the next 40, 45 days we should have a store fleet of six stores in Mumbai Post that we will start looking for locations and engaging with potential asset owners both on the high street and mall side within Bangalore as well as ncr. The idea is if all goes according to plan and the right locations are available at the right prices, of course we hope to open around 20 to 25 stores in that ballpark, more or less by December end 2025. I’ll open the comments to our chairman to correct me if any.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
No, you were absolutely bang on. More.
Bhavya Gandhi
Great. Yeah. Great. That’s it from mine. Thank you so much.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Agam Sanghvi with Walford Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Aagam Sanghvi
Hello. Am I audible?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Yes.
Aagam Sanghvi
Yeah. You currently said that you are planning to open 20 to 25 stores by December 25th. So what will be the model of expansion like? It would be a company owned and company operated model or a franchisee model.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
So complete Coco. We were not looking at franchise franchise opportunities at the moment in this calendar year. We’ll certainly evaluate and look at that model once we have the brand well established.
Aagam Sanghvi
All right, my next question would be regarding the E Commerce sales. So for the next one or two years, what would be the percentage of sales from the E commerce division and what margins can we expect from there?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. So let me answer on the B2B side. So E Commerce selling online via our customers retail websites. So about 20 to 25% of our sales come from that channel. Again that’s really amazing for Goldiam because that channel operates at a negative working capital. We get paid within 7 to 30 days whereas raw material is bought. Diamonds are bought with longer terms. So it’s been a phenomenal avenue for us to increase profitable sales with very strong roes. We expect this ratio to continue about 20 to 25% of sales coming from online channels moving forward as well. Which is double of where the industry stands.
Aagam Sanghvi
No, I mean I was asking from your own website like Origam.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. So from Origam we just launched. We haven’t modeled the figures yet. We’re happy to share that Data in the Q4 conference call and certainly Q1 conference call onward. We have much more color to present on Origen both stores and E Commerce side.
Operator
Thank you. Mr. Sanghvi. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Aman Vej with Astute Investment Management. Please go ahead.
Aman Vij
Yes sir. Sir, continuing on the Indian retail side, Sir. So on the online side there are a couple of players. The oldest player, Bluestone is doing like 300, 400 crore sales. So is it possible for us to do say 100 crore kind of sales in the next two years on online domestic channel as well as when you talk about we have planned of 2025 stores so obviously this will happen throughout the year in CY26 but say for C by 27 can if this store generates similar run rate which you are talking about. So is it safe to assume that for the next 12 years this retail revenue can scale to say 100, 150 crore kind of sales as well?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Thank you for your question. Yes, as we said if we open the 25 to 30 stores within the next you know by the end of the year and if we calculate on an average 30 lakhs per store it’s very safe to say that within the next timeframe you’re looking at you will see an additional of 90 to 120 crores between E commerce as well as store openings.
Aman Vij
Yeah, and specifically on E commerce is it possible for us to grow this business very fast once we have like 15, 20 stores? So e commerce alone can it contribute like 50 hundred crore sales for us?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Let me take that question Mr. Aman. You know certainly down the road, I can’t comment on exactly whether that would happen in the next year or so but it’s certainly possible down the road. See our biggest learnings from now very well scaled Omnichannel everyday fine jewelers on the natural side is that once you cross a certain price threshold which is 20, 25,000 rupees online is more used as a platform for omni channel sales. So the customer looks online but comes to the nearest store to actually transact. That’s why we see many names, some of which you of course very well know rapidly being online.
First companies now, now expanding or already expanded north of 200 to 300 stores. So yes, online will be an important part of the journey and it can certainly grow. I can’t comment on exactly when that would happen.
It’s linked to development of the brand and growth of the brand in general. But for our category in everyday fine jewellery given the price points we are targeting, which is more or less an ASP of 40 to 50,000 rupees bulk I assume bulk of sales will end up being offline in general.
Aman Vij
And just one clarification on this liquidation which you mentioned around say 40, 50,000 per customer. So is it safe to assume sir for achieving that 30 lakh number we just need two customer a day and then anything addition everything will slow to our margins and to the bottom line?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Absolutely. That’s why we see a lot of potential in this business model. At Origam 1 stores hit breakeven and thereafter the stores season when the brand is well accepted, the designs are well liked and revenue naturally takes its cost to go upwards. It could be a phenomenally value accretive business model as well.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Vej. Please fall back in the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Sunil Shah with SRE pms. Please go ahead.
Sunil Shah
Yeah, thanks sir, just want to understand one basic question on the business side, sir. What happens to the unsold inventory which lies in the large format store overseas? What happens to that?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Right, that’s a great question. So as we put out the data, about 70%, give or take 70 to 75% of our inventory is sitting as finished goods on consignment with large retailers in the us. So every month, every day that sells down, we get paid for it every month as it sells. The styles that do not work, that don’t sell well after a cost or period of time of 12 months or 14 months or 16 months as required. Goldiam has a binary choice. We can either take a markdown on those items and move them to the clearance section within those stores, in which case hopefully with a lower retail then they can liquidate naturally in store itself. Or we take that back, take the inventory back, melt it. And the unique thing about diamond jewelry inventory is once you melt it, gold is immediately recyclable in tomorrow’s orders.
And diamonds, if you’ve done your job well of inventory management, then you know you can use those diamonds, those shapes, those qualities, those sizes within your future orders in a quick period of time. So other than of course design and working on improving the hit ratio of design, a particular thing that we do at Goldiam is keep a keen eye on inventory management. It’s a very important part of our business so that we can ensure that dead inventory is not sitting in any store and we are able to recycle what needs to be recycled fairly quickly.
Sunil Shah
So the second question again in the context with inventory and so working capital, sir, the credit period that is given, right. For you know we have four different ways. The wholesaler overseas who buys the product from us and then sells it through those multiple mom and pop stores overseas. The large format retailer who buys from us overseas, then we have our own store here in India and we would also have perhaps re wholesalers in India. So there are four major customers, so called categories of customers or if there is anything more you can add to it. But just tell me the number of days of credit that is provided.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Absolutely no problem Mr. Shah. So let’s start with the smallest segment which is wholesale sales to the US So where we sell to wholesalers credit terms there are usually between around 150 to 180 days. Then we go to selling to stores. So large format retailers whom we deal with directly. When we sell to the stores credit periods are between and directly on purchase order basis credit periods are between 60 to 90 days at max 120 days with one or two retailers then we sell online on these same customers websites. So XYZRetailer.com on their website any sales that happen our credit period is seven to 30 days. So much much faster. And that’s why it’s been a particular focus for us. And then memo sales. So any consignment that’s been sold by the retailer they have to pay us by end of the month.
So they sell between day one and day 30. By the fifth of the following month they have to pay us for what has been sold. So that is immediate but of course that’s consignment.
On consignment the India operations we don’t sell to any wholesalers or retailers in India. We only sell in India through Origem which is our own brand because it’s a new brand we you know, the sales are, you know and because it’s directly retail there is no credit period here.
Sunil Shah
Okay sir, if I can squeeze in one more question. So where I’m coming from is the perception of the stock market community towards the diamond industry. And the broader perception created over the decades has been the misconception or anything. But by and large the sales numbers are always questioned by the stock market community. For the diamond industry there is lot of circular sales which happens is the perception. So how does that particular perception change? Meaning I’m trying to understand why would the company in the diamond industry be re rated in the eyes of the stock market community. Could you make me understand this please.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Anmol, let me take this.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
So first let me explain to you two things that Goldiam’s operations for export are all in ceibs which is the sez. So we can only export, we can sell in the domestic market. None of the exports of Goldie M going loose diamonds which can be circulated to Dubai, Hong Kong and back. Dubai, Hong Kong and back. Right. And there is first of all no reason for a company like Goldie em to sell loose diamonds which we anyway don’t. We have a zero Export of loose diamond. We don’t have any debt.
So once we don’t have a debt we don’t have to show to the bankers to keep the same line. So we keep circulating and stuff things like that. We are a pure design based jewelry company.
Our exports are straight to the largest retailers in the world in America. Right. We are not shipping product to Hong Kong and getting it back to Dubai and getting it back our balance sheets and can really explain that to you very easily.
And now we have a business in India. So the question of circular trading in Goldiam’s book just cannot exist right now. Whereas this loose diamond people, we are not in that same industry. So I just want to state again that we are not. We have diamonds is only a raw material. We are not in the diamond industry. We are completely into design based retailing or design based exporting, creating value addition for the company.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
And if I can add on Mr. Shah, it’s something that we take pride in and we have a lot of importance that we give to is our disclosures and our governance as promoters and management. This is the sole business that we have. So all of our efforts and time goes within to Goldiam and of course our subsidiaries and beyond that. The track record of Goldiam over the last few years shows the amount of true cash being generated by the company.
It’s being distributed or has been up and so far been distributed in the form of dividends and buybacks. Despite of that we have maintained our cash balances at near to all time high region. So that clearly shows how a company our size is rewarding shareholders, is creating governance and is focused on being clear and transparent in all that we do.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Shah. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Taksh Malhotra with Adrif Global. Please go by it.
Daksh Malhotra
Yeah. Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on the great set of numbers. Hi, am I audible?
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Yes.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Daksh Malhotra
Two sides to the question. First one is a little more detailed. While you answered a lot of the questions asked by other participants but just keen to understand that given that the gold prices are increasing so steeply, is Goldium also looking at making jewelry with silver as the base metal along with the lab grown diamonds.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you Mr. Saksh. So it depends on our retailers in America if they want us to, you know we’re happy to do that. Very, very small portion of our line is silver based jewelry. Diamond started in silver and silver based jewelry manufacturing. I don’t see retailers in America Pushing too much, especially in the bridal segment. And because we particularly focus on bridal, I don’t see that portion increasing dramatically. But you know, so I hope that answers the question. And at Origam we are not introducing silver.
Daksh Malhotra
Okay. Yeah, because it makes sense. Otherwise it becomes just another fashion jewelry with regards to origin. Also you mentioned that you have a buyback policy within Origen. Are you buying back is the buyback usually at the same price? So in case walk in, client comes and happens to buy something for one lakh rupees and probably a couple of years later they come and want to sell it back. Is it just the making charges that are reduced or how does that work?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. So I can run through the buyback policy. We benchmarked it to our largest jewelry retailers in India, Tanishq, etc. So the way it works is making charges are deducted any and of course gold and diamonds both are credited back in the form of the current market value. So if gold increases, if gold goes to $3,000 per troy ounce or even higher, the customer gets the benefit of that. And diamonds depending on where current market is as per Origem’s grid, it will be credited at that rate. Again going back to the question of lab grown diamonds, we see no further price falls coming in especially in the diamonds which are now not 3 carat but also below 5 carat, 5 carat and below. So at the moment I think it’s a great time to buy lab grown diamond jewelry.
Daksh Malhotra
Yeah. Okay. So what is the maximum carriage that you guys have started making it?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. So in terms of diamond caritage, in most of our stores it goes up to 4, 3 to 4 carat. For our flagship we’re taking it all the way up to 10 carat center stones as well.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Malhotra. Please be join the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Rupam Cheswal with investpell Agents Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Rupam Jaiswal
Hello.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Yes.
Rupam Jaiswal
Yeah, thank you for providing me this opportunity. So I may be repeating this question but I just want to know like do all your customers require certification for the jewelry or does it depend on the value of the piece?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure it depends. They don’t require jewelry and it depends on their their personal requirements. So value of the piece, who their customers are, what they want to do. It’s a retailer driven choice.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Dixit Doshi with Whitestone Financial Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Dixit Doshi
No, all my questions have been answered. Thank you.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you Mr. Thank you Mr. Doshi.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Ankush Agarwal from Search Capital. Please go ahead.
Ankush Agrawal
Yeah, hi. Am I audible?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Yes, thank you.
Ankush Agrawal
Yeah. So the question, first question I want to ask is if I look at our natural diamonds revenue, those have been degrowing like 30, 40% for almost 6, 7 quarters now. But so I wanted to understand what is happening over here because I believe the industry wouldn’t be degrowing this fast. So are we consciously trying to you know, sort of reduce that business or it is an outcome of say the retailers themselves not willing to do that business any longer?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. Thank you Mr. Ankush. So yes, it’s a conscious decision. Natural diamond jewellery especially being distributed to stores which has a requirement of also doing a certain amount of consignment for new product testing. We are moving more and more towards Lab Grown. Of course if a retailer needs product in natural, we have design capability and we are able to deliver it. But we want an understanding from retailers on an exit plan, a way to purchase that inventory, a way to sell down that inventory. Because for us what we are seeing on the ground level in America, because we have data on what’s selling every month from our consignment and memo sales, the Lab grown diamond jewelry is selling faster as a percentage of inventory than the natural diamond jewelry. That simply means that the capital being invested is working faster by investing it in lab grown diamond jewelry.
The trend of course is moving towards there and the end customer is clearly telling us what he or she wants to buy. So at Goldium it’s been a decision we’ve taken to lean more heavily on Lab Grown. But of course we’re, you know, at the end of the day we’re a jewellery company so we’re technically stone agnostic. But our desire in terms of what to distribute, invest in and sell would certainly be Lab grown diamond jewelry.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Agarwal. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes on the line of Anant Jain with individual investor. Please go ahead.
Anant Jain
Just one question, Anmol. What has been the EBITDA impact of retail operations in this quarter?
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you Mr. Anand. So we haven’t, we can share that data. We haven’t split it up at the moment. We’ll certainly share that data in a day or two. In December ending quarter it was not very significant especially due to growth in business and the overall revenue pie increasing. But please give me a day and I’ll be happy. A day or two and I’ll ensure that we split that number out and share it as well. That is also something we are planning from Q1 onwards to share in our corporate deck.
Operator
Thank you Mr. Chair. Please rejoin the queue for more questions. Next question comes from the line of Akshay J with Exponent Tribe. Please go ahead.
Akshay Jogani
Hi, I wanted to sort of get some thoughts on what are the learnings so far from the retail operation. Maybe things that have worked well. Things that have not worked well on merchandising, marketing. I know it’s a little early, but you see the kind of thing.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Sure. Thank you Mr. Thank you Akshay. You know, happy to share some thoughts. Well, a few things that were surprising to us was the quantum of made to order or customization requests we got. Thankfully, because of our jewelry supply partners, the ability of us to be able to buy diamonds ourselves in a very rapid manner and deliver them to for custom manufacturing. We’ve been able to adapt to that trend and that’s a non insignificant part of our sales at the store level. Another thing that we notice is in fact in key jewellery markets, especially for example Boriwali, which was our first store, the customers already is fairly well educated on lab grown diamond jewelry.
They come in knowing what lab grown is, how it is truly chemically, optically and physically the same as natural diamonds. So that requirement to convince the customer to come into the category isn’t as prevalent now of course, as we expand as we move into regions and areas where lab grown players are not present or even mall stores where there’s much higher daily footfall that may change. But in our current store format that’s been a particular interesting learning that we’ve had.
And again, the focus on design is extremely important as well. Well, I’ll open it to our chairman if he wants to add any comments here.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
Also, we feel that we’ve kind of understanding more of what the consumer behavior and patterns are in the three months of learning that we’ve had with Borivali store, two months from Kharger and a few days from turnover. You know, 14 karat, 18 karat, both have been liked by consumers and that’s really not a reason that we only need to make 18 karat jewelry. 14 karat is being bought by consumers in our country, unquestionably. So that’s one good learning. And earrings and rings are very strong sales and the fastest to sell from all the other things like either a pendant or a large necklace or stuff like that. To add on to what Anmol has said.
Operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, we have reached the end of question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Rashesh M. Bhansali
I want to thank all the participants for joining us today. If you have any further questions or need additional information, please feel free to contact Deserio Consulting, our investor relations team. Thank you all and have a good evening.
Anmol Rashesh Bhansali
Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Munark, Net Worth Capital Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Shannon.