GMM Pfaudler Limited (NSE: GMMPFAUDLR) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Aug. 07, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Dhawal Rajput
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Alexander Poempner — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Mihir Manohar — Analyst
Jaivir Shekhavat — Analyst
Sagar Shah — Analyst
Praveen Kumar — Analyst
Kunal Mehta — Analyst
JMOD — Analyst
Kaushik Mohan — Analyst
Kumar Saurabh — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
The conference is now being recorded.
operator
It. Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Q1FY26 conference call of GMM Fodler Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Dhawal Rajput. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Dhawal Rajput
Thank you, Amshad. Good evening ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to all of you into the Q1 FY26 earnings call of GMU for delimited. The earnings presentation was uploaded on the stock exchanges today and is also available on our website. Hope all of you had a chance to go through it. From the management, we have with us Our Managing Director Mr. Taras Patel. Our CEO of International Business, Mr. Thomas Khalees. Our CFO Mr. Alexander Pomplar. Our India Head of Operations, Mr. Dhananjay Bajpai and our Compliance Officer Ms. Mittan Mata. We will give you a brief overview of the performance of the company after which we will get into the Q and A.
Before we begin with the overview, a brief disclaimer. The presentation that was uploaded on the stock exchanges and also on our website including our call discussion that will happen now contains or may have certain forward looking statements regarding our business prospects and profitability which are subject to several risks and uncertainties. The actual results could materially differ from those in such forward looking statements. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Tarak Patel to provide an overview of the performance. Over to you Tarak.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Thank you, Dhawal. Just one clarification. We also have with us today Greg Gellows, our Chief Transformation Officer joining the call. Let me start off with a brief overview of our quarterly performance. We’ve delivered a stable revenue this quarter with a strong improvement in the profitability largely driven by our India business. Our consolidated EBITDA is up 14% year on year and our India EBITDA has grown by a strong 45% year on year. EBITDA margins have also improved. Today we are at 12.7% at a consolidated level and 15.7% on a standalone basis. Order intake this quarter has been quite strong.
We stand at about 1000 crores of order intake intake primarily driven by our system and our services business. This is 14% higher year on year and 52% higher quarter on quarter which impacts Our backlog, our current backlog stands at 1,906 crores which is an increase of 7% year on year and 17% quarter on quarter, which provides a healthy visibility for the upcoming quarters. We’ve also completed the acquisition. We have not actually completed, but we are in the process of completing the acquisition of semco. Semco is expected to close next week. We had mentioned during our last disclosures regarding Semco that this is our foothold into the South American and Brazilian market where we believe that there is going to be significant investments in metals and minerals, wastewater, sewage treatments, where Semco already has a very large and established brand name as well as a strong customer base.
With Semco’s acquisition, our mixing platform, our global mixing platform includes Mixeon in India, Mixel in France and China, Mixpro in Canada and now Semco in South America. And we now have a strong global mixing business. The idea is to really grow this business and make sure that it comes under one roof and under one brand going forward. In terms of the market, the market here in India seems a little bit stronger. Investment has come back in pharma and in the chemicals and we do expect agrochemicals also to start investing in the next few quarters. We have already seen inquiries and opportunities from these sectors and our opportunity pipeline has also grown over over the last few months.
Having said that, we must keep in mind that there is obviously global uncertainty. Some of these decisions of large projects may be put on hold considering what’s going on in terms of global tariffs. However, having said that, we do believe that the India business is definitely stronger today than it was about a year ago. With that I think I would like to now open this call up for question and answer and so sorry before I do that I would like to pass on this to Alex Pompner, our CFO to take you through the numbers briefly.
Alexander Poempner — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Taraq. Good evening to everyone also from my side and thanks for joining today. I do not want to say so much as Targ already said we have started Q1 with a consolidated revenue of 795 crores and an EBITDA of 1101 crores. Therefore now I just would like to mention two important topics more accounting driven. First is the FX change impact. During the quarter the Euro appreciated by approximately 8% against the US dollar and this resulted in a notable foreign exchange impact across our financial results. This is due to the fact that we have intercorporate foreign currency borrowings within our international operations and due to this currency movement we faced an FX loss of 20 crores in the P and L statement as disclosed in Note 4 in the Financial result.
This is an unrealized impact with no cash impact. The second one is also what you probably recognize is that we have a really high tax rate. The tax rate adds up to 68%. This is also influenced by our international group structure. And for example a large portion is just due to the fact that some of our corporate expenses, including this FX impact is an entity which has no income. As a result, we do not show a tax credit for these losses. So this is again coming from the accounting side with not really a big cash impact.
This was it so far from my side. And now we would like to open the call for questions and comments.
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue you may press STAR and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is on the line of Mihir Manohar from Chameleon Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Mihir Manohar — Analyst
Yeah, hi. Thanks for giving the opportunity and congratulations on good set of numbers sir. Lastly, wanted to understand the US business exposure. So I mean what is the US business exposure? US exports are in India to US and Europe to US. What would be that number?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
No, so we have no significant exports from either India or Europe into the U.S. u.S. We have a large manufacturing facility which is local and US market. We also have Brazil as a low cost source for the US market. And as we understand today there is no significant tariff on glass line equipment that is exported from Brazil to the US but as you know every day there’s a new situation and it’s changing in the dynamic. But as of now we don’t see any significant issues with the US tariff situation in the way that we are structured.
Mihir Manohar — Analyst
Understood. With reference to the material procurement. I mean are we. So manufacturing which is happening in US roughly 1/3 of the business is Americas. So I mean is it that the cost of manufacturing for our companies based out of US is increasing or even. That is on the challenge.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
No. So I think the US manufacturing facility sources locally we are one of the only one of the two other suppliers who have local manufacturing in the US So we do have a strong position. The US market is a large market for us and a profitable market as well. And being local and having Brazil as a local source has worked well for us. We hope that maybe some of these tariff impacts will maybe energize or increase investment in the US market. We have seen over the past maybe few months that there has been more inquiries for us for the US market which in the past we were not seeing, especially in pharmaceuticals where we believe people might invest and make sure that at least some manufacturing is done in the US So if that were to happen, then it would mean that obviously our US business would benefit from this tariff situation.
Mihir Manohar — Analyst
Okay, understood. So just for clarification, as of now, I mean Brazil to US GLE as well as non GLE exports that is not under tariff.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Yes. So we basically use Brazil as GLE exports to the US US also has a manufacturing, small manufacturing for systems and some stainless steel and non glass lined equipment as well. But generally it’s mainly glass lined. And as of right now, the glass lined exports from Brazil to US seem to be not notified under this tariff regime.
Mihir Manohar — Analyst
Okay, understood. Sure. My second question was on the interactions with clients. I mean last time we were expecting pickup to happen in India from end of the year, specifically 3Q onwards. If you can provide some color as to what is the interaction that you are having with clients across all the three geographies from a business ticker perspective, that will be helpful. Sure.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So I think, let me start here with India. India, like I said, chemical pharma, good amount of investment. Recently we’ve seen a lot of investment in this GLP2 and peptide manufacturing here in India. I think that’s something that’s going to continue. We have also participated in that investment and have secured a large number of orders in that space. The glass line business also in India is picking up. We have now a full factory in Gujarat. If you remember last year we had two factories and both factories were running at 50, 60%. Today we have in this quarter over absorption in the Gujarat facility in our glass line business because the volumes have increased and we believe that glass line will continue to improve.
We have now received also inquiries from large agrochemical players, which is a positive definitely because we haven’t seen that really happened over the last 12 to 18 months. So that’s a change and we expect some investment to come into Q3 and Q4. So from an India perspective, India backlog and India business, we do expect a good amount of growth this year. We are in a strong position as well in terms of the India order book and we are expecting to grow quite nicely this year as compared to previous year. Internationally there are different themes across the world.
I think Europe, we are seeing a little bit lower investment in terms of the chemical and pharmaceutical. However, we see some other industries which are kind of making up for this shortfall. During the quarter we received a very large order from European company in the range of about 33.7 odd million, about $37 million. This is more into asset recovery and kind of spend there. And we’re seeing that level of investment coming back to industries that are involved in the defense manufacturing, arms and ammunition and so on and so forth. The US again, as of right now, it has shown some amount of recovery in terms of the services business.
But to say that it is back to its original investment levels, I think we will still have to wait and watch a little bit. Generally the international business, the outlook is still a little bit more cautious because obviously with the global uncertainties, it might be some of these investment, the decisions might be postponed. Having said that, India still remains strong and hopefully we see some amount of reversal of this trend in the international business in the coming months.
Mihir Manohar — Analyst
Sure, understood. My last question was on the cost control measures. What is the status of the cost control measures that we were looking to implement for the European geography and what at the console level, both for India and in now, the consolidation of plants as well as the consolidation plants in Europe at the console level, what kind of margin improvement can we expect over the next few years?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So there are multiple different cost control measures that are ongoing. I’ll speak a little bit about maybe one or two and then Thomas and Alex can jump in and talk you through a little bit more in terms of what’s going on on the ground. So in India currently we are running, and we ran last year a very kind of robust and it was an EBITDA improvement transformation. The project that we ran, it lasted about nine odd months and we expect those benefits to accrue in this financial year. You would have seen some improvement in Q4 of last year and that continues in Q1 as well with a lower revenue base.
We have significantly improved the margins and over the next few quarters when our revenue increases, you will see some of that flow through also flowing into the P and L as well. So that’s something that has helped us quite a bit here in India. But we also continue to make sure that our cost structure remains quite lean and that’s something that’s ongoing. You would have known also that we have now launched our Poland project that is up and running as well. We have now started sending orders from Western Europe, high cost Geographies like Switzerland in France to Poland.
The quality and the delivery from those sites have been very good and I think as time progresses you will see more and more material and orders moving into lower cost geographies. With that, maybe I’ll pass it over to Thomas who will speak a little bit more in terms of the restructuring that we’re doing internationally. Thomas?
Unidentified Speaker
Well, on the glass line technologies we have started the journey of restructuring a couple of months ago where we we had closed our facility for flatline in Scotland UK Leven that has been completed and the benefits of the savings and cost savings are seen in the next quarters. Most likely, however, the market is very difficult and the demand is low. We have increased our productivities and speed and replanting where we can take orders and then process in much at the same time. We are now considering have started a project to look at the cost structure of our German plant and have started to implement and discuss a severe savings program there with the same.
Goal to.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Have the capacity more flexibilized and more variable in the future, but have the capacity available when you come. So this will help us in the future also very nicely. On Poland, our joint venture that we have brought in activity a couple of months ago already touched base on that. We have firm plans and we are waiting for the building permit to increase our footprint in Poland over the next couple of quarters and this is going quite well. And more orders from locations in France, Switzerland will be manufactured in this position in the future.
Mihir Manohar — Analyst
Okay, that’s it from my side. Thank you very much.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jaivir Shekhavat from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Jaivir Shekhavat — Analyst
Thanks a lot. Hi Tarek, My first question is when I studied your gross margins for your Inda business, I think there’s been a considerable improvement that has happened over the quarters and if I see the order intake over the last few quarters it has been declining. So I’m just trying to marry the two. I mean how are gross margin increasing when the order intake for the India business has been falling? And also alluding to your commentary, I think we have been hearing that there is a pickup that’s happening in the market. The volumes are increasing.
So why is that still not reflecting in terms of the order intake? And then when do you expect that to happen? That will be my first question. Sure.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So I think order intake in Q1 was obviously a little bit lower, but I think there is some amount of, you know, the seasonality Q1 is usually not quite strong and do keep in Mind that a large part of our order intake in India is also the heavy engineering business. This obviously is something that we already have a strong backlog in. But you will see over the next few quarters that order intake and the opportunity pipeline is quite robust and we expect order intake and we’ve already seen good order intake in this quarter as well.
So from an order intake perspective for this year, for this financial year, we are pretty much in a very comfortable position here in India. We do need some orders by September, October, which I think we will get quite easily. So I’m not so stressed. And I think now the focus is really shifting into building backlog for next year. And as you know with heavy engineering these are large long term projects. Right. So we are currently working with very large projects that can go on between somewhere between 12 to 18 to 24 months and hopefully we will have that in our backlog in the next few months.
Jaivir Shekhavat — Analyst
Also on the heavy engineering piece, we have heard that over the last few quarters the pickup, especially from a lot of these oil PSUs, private oil companies, have been quite sluggish off late. Are you seeing more pickup happening, more refineries coming up and then you also participating in some of those tenders?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Yes. So I will have the Dhananjay who’s our head of operations and has been in this heavy engineering space for quite some time. Maybe Dhananjay, if you could just share some work. So in India the refinery, oil and. Gas business is expected to grow over next five to six years, around 6%. So that will reflect in order inflow. And there are few active enquiries for the refinery projects which are stated to come up. So the answer to your question will. Be yes, this order inflow will keep. Improving over the next few months.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, so we are working on heavy engineering for us is a clear, clear growth area for us not only here in India but also internationally. Southeast Asia, Middle east are large markets. We’ve already started, we’ve been kind of approved on quite a few vendor lists. Now we have agents now set up that network is ready and we do expect the Middle east to also contribute to our backlog. But having said that, there are large projects here in India that we are currently bidding for that should be finalized shortly. And like I said again, this is really for next year.
This year heavy engineering is already pretty much booked out. So we really need to kind of build backlog for next year and I think we are in a strong position to do that.
Jaivir Shekhavat — Analyst
On your international business, I understand you highlighted there was A large asset recovery order that you received. But even if I were to remove that from your order intake, I think it means the consumer pick that has happened over the again last few quarters. Comparing that anything that’s happening, are there any more large one off orders that have come in the quarter or is there a general pickup? Because again it sort of conflicts with your commentary when you said it’s more stabilized at the moment. You’re not really seeing a lot of pickup. What has really driven that apart from the large order that you highlighted?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Yeah. So I think two areas where we’ve seen good amount of traction is obviously the systems business. The systems and the asset recovery business that we received. So that’s been a strong vertical for us. We also have seen last quarter that services have come back in a strong manner. However, our glass line business is behind budget in Germany and in China. So those are the two areas. Glass line is still slow in Europe and also in the US So that’s definitely something that we would need to work around and we need to be a little bit more aggressive.
But that’s just the general market condition where investment in chemicals and pharmaceuticals in Europe and the US has not been significant over the last few quarters. But things can change quickly. There is definitely localization. There’s also this tariff situation and we now find that our opportunity pipeline has grown. So it’s not only. I think the other metric that we use is how much of the opportunity pipeline has grown and across our businesses it has grown significantly. Now we would just wait for these to now turn into actual orders, but the trend I think internationally also in terms of the pipeline is the positive.
However, it’s not still converted into orders. Having said that, we do expect large orders in the non glass line business in mixing and in the other areas over the next few quarters. Glass line still remains a little bit slow.
Jaivir Shekhavat — Analyst
My last question is with respect to US business over there, are you looking to ramp up production possibly onshore as well as on Bay of Brazil? And could you give a sense in terms of the imports of glassbind equipment that happens from any other players apart from you into the US market? So I’m just trying to understand because of these tariffs, if these get finalized, what could be the incremental benefit that can come to you as you become more competitive in that market?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
I don’t think there is significant import into the U.S. u.S. Is a closed market. They normally buy from U.S. manufacturers themselves. And plus shipping gas and equipment around the world is not very, I mean unless it’s. If it comes from India or China, but shipping stuff from Europe to the US I don’t think it makes too much sense in terms of cost. So the US will buy local or will buy from maybe Brazil. Right. We have supplied from India in the past, but of course now India supplying to the US with the current tariff situation doesn’t seem like a strong possibility.
But we have multiple different options. The ideal situation would be that our US unit will probably if this investment comes in then they could serve that market quite easily. We have the capacity available. We are well known we are the market leader in the U.S. so we just have to now make sure that we can execute these orders as and when they come in, if they do come in.
Jaivir Shekhavat — Analyst
Sure. Thank you so much and all the best.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sagar Shah from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Sagar Shah — Analyst
Thank you so much for the opportunity and first of all congratulations to the entire team for posting a good set of numbers. My first question was regarding the demand environment. You. You have already explained about the kind of dullness and at least in the demand for glass lining equipment as far as global markets are concerned. What I wanted to understand that you are guiding for at least a better H2 and regards to non glass climate technologies especially regarding to Eglon and especially regarding to industrial mixing as far as global quiz is concerned. So as far as the diversification part which we took around three years back, so what how is the demand environment as far as the non glass lining is concerned in the global markets? Because still your technologies segment hasn’t shown actually that sort of meaningful growth which you actually envisaged even a year ago.
That’s my first question.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Yes. So I think the non glass line business also like our glass line business mainly caters to chemical and pharma at least our erstwhile non glass line business. And the idea of the diversification strategy is to open up more industries and industry segments for us. SEMCO does that because Semco caters into the fast growing metals and minerals and wastewater and rare earth market in South America. So that would be a stream for growth as well. Our mixing in Canada also caters to non legacy segments. So they cater also to metals and minerals and oil and gas and petrochemicals in the Canadian market.
The idea is to build different industry segments and that takes a bit of time but I think we are well positioned today to kind of take some of these orders. And just to give you a few examples, we have currently orders on hand which have come from our non core markets. Even with the slowdown in the chemical market, a lot of the shortfall was made up with orders coming in from things like food and beverage, oil and gas, petrochemical. You know, we are doing work for the battery technology. I said, you know arms and ammunition and the defense is something that we are working on.
Right. And then with Edlon now we cater to two different markets. We cater to the semiconductor market in the US and also the nuclear market in the US Right. So again there is diversification played across all our industries. We are using our current portfolio to try and enter into as many new market as we can. Even with our heavy engineering play here in India we are now looking at doing work for the nuclear sector. We are doing work for oil and gas, petrochemicals. We are going into Southeast Asia, Middle east as well. So these are markets that are opening up.
And then obviously there are new industries like battery technology and stuff where we’ve also done some good work. And that could be their small market but they could turn out to be quite big markets in the future.
Sagar Shah — Analyst
Right. My second question was related to the standalone operations you posted. The company posted very healthy operating performance as far as EBITDA margins are concerned. What I wanted to understand now since the. Now since the glass lining demand is actually improving in India as per your commentary, as per we are hearing from the industry and secondly also your heavy engineering business has already taken up and considering your also there is your there is a lean cost structure that you are operating in as far as the standalone operations are concerned. So is it safe to assume the margins are sustainable as far as the standalone operations are concerned or maybe even we can see further improvement from here on.
That is the second question.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So as per our the current estimate, you know 15, 16 the percent is sustainable. I do believe that when you have incremental revenue flowing through these factories, when we have better absorptions, maybe those numbers might look a little bit better. The focus this year is to make sure that we execute well and we grow here in India. There could be obviously some market share, some orders that we take for strategic reasons which might impact. But generally I think the region that we are currently in plus a little bit of upside is possible. The focus should be on execution now and that’s what we are focusing on.
And like you rightly said, our factories are now at a good the capacity utilization. I think across the board. Both the factories are full now and you did not mention that a large chunk here in India is our non glass line business as well. Which includes mixing, filtration and drying that has done exceedingly well. Like I mentioned in a few questions ago, large order for peptide manufacturing in hastelloy stainless steel. That’s all that is going into our filtration and drying our mixing portfolio as well. Right. So both our non glass line businesses are doing quite well.
They are full, very strong and healthy backlog. Glass line decent backlog. But I believe that with the new capex that comes in over the next few quarters we could really be back to a very strong backlog in one factory. While last year we had obviously two factories to fill so we are definitely in a better position. And I think to answer your question the margin profile of a standalone should be something that is sustainable.
Sagar Shah — Analyst
My last question was related to heavy engineering. To follow up just what you said in the heavy engineering segment and also in the non glass lining segment are we looking for any capex since the capacities are full? So are we looking at capex as far as the India business is concerned?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Yes. So currently we have not gone to the board for approvals yet but I believe that we will add some capacity in non glass line in mixing and filtration and drying that what’s growing and we have a limited area there. The capex would be in the range of 7 to 10 crores. It’s not significant capex but we do want to create a world class facility for this product line not only for the Indian market and export market but also for low cost sourcing for our group companies as well. So that’s something that we will want to build here and use in the next few quarters.
But yes, we do believe that we will need some capex to grow that and heavy engineering we have capacity available. I think we are okay for at least the next year and a half but you know after you know 6, 700 crores we might need more the capacity there.
Sagar Shah — Analyst
Right sir, thank you so much and all the best for future purposes.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praveen Kumar from Acutis Capital Advisors. Please go ahead.
Praveen Kumar — Analyst
Hello. Yeah hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I had a couple of questions. The first one was on the domestic side. In your comments you have alluded to the glass line gle part of the business in India doing well. But if I look at the breakup of your domestic revenues into services, systems and technologies if I compare the technologies part on a yoy basis the revenue of Q1FY26 compared to Q1FY25 on the technology side and domestic seems to Actually have fallen by 8%. So can you throw some light on this?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
No, I think it’s just a product mix issue. It’s just a one off. I don’t think that you should read too much into that. Like I said, the backlog across all three business lines are quite strong. One quarter you will see glass line doing better and growing. One quarter he will have big shipments. One quarter it would be the non glass line. Right. So technology still today has all these product lines in it. But we, like I said, we do have plans to obviously ship out over the next few quarters. We know what backlog is there, but I don’t think there is any specific kind of reason why one is more or less, I think across the backlog.
In our standalone business we have a strong backlog across all three verticals.
Praveen Kumar — Analyst
Okay. And just on this note, earlier, I mean the company used to provide order intake. Breakup of domestic versus International, you have discontinued doing that. Any particular reason for that?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So I think here we would like to just mention that today, you know, obviously the company is going through a transformation process. The international versus India, the division was something that obviously was there. But you know, as a global company we do look at probably having more of a kind of a global kind of view on this sharing backlog data. I think this is just the way that we’ve been doing it in the past. And backlog is at a group level. There are different geographies, there are different businesses. So at the end of the day, the backlog really is for the whole company.
There’s no specific reason why we did it or didn’t do it. But in the future, when we do go through this global transformation program, the way we organize our strategic plans, our financial numbers, we will come back to the market with some kind of thought in terms of where we are and where we want to go. Right. So I think just bear with us maybe for a few more quarters and then maybe we will have some better way of sharing data and you will have better ways of analyzing that data. So no specific reason really.
Just, you know, I think the backlog today is strong. It is much higher than what it was 12 months, 18 months ago. So we are in a better position. But again, like I said, it’s still cautious, we’re still hopeful and optimistic. But we do have to really take into account that there is a lot of global uncertainty. Right. So that’s really not in our control. The only thing we can try and control is to make sure that we have multiple different opportunities across various industries to make sure that order intake remains strong.
Praveen Kumar — Analyst
Understood. My other question was on, you know, I think there was an exchange notification about asim’s exit. So I just wanted to understand that, you know, again, on the international side, the multiple lines of business, even in India, with more focus on heavy engineering.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
As well as gle.
Praveen Kumar — Analyst
Right. With. With the exit of Haseem and others, is there some kind of an organization restructuring you’re doing on the domestic side? Because how do you plan to devote the organization bandwidth required for Indian operations?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Yeah, so I think first thing to say is that obviously, you know, the A team has been with us now for four years. You know, we’ve enjoyed working with him and we thank him for all the good work that he has done. Obviously it’s a professional decision to move on. He had an opportunity which came along which he could not say no to. So that’s something that’s part of life and we move on. Having said that, we obviously have a global transformation program ongoing. Like we mentioned in our disclosure that the India CEO role is something that we are thinking about considering.
And as we reorganize, we restructure the business to give the kind of focus, independence and flexibility. We will then kind of figure out what is the right global organization structure. Whatever structure we choose, the structure will obviously help us to be more focused, to be more proactive, and to be able to be a better company for the long term. This is something that we’ve inherited, unfortunately. There is obviously with legacy businesses like ours, which are more regional in nature, there is obviously less alignment between the regions. I think we want to bring some more alignment into this business and have people think about not only their region, but really more about how the business is doing at a global level.
So some of the decisions related to cost structure, in terms of innovation, in terms of automation, in terms of people and organizations, we need to relook at that. It’s a good opportunity for us to do that. And I think that the excitement levels, the motivation levels within the organization kind of, I think we are doing something that is going to help us in the long term.
Praveen Kumar — Analyst
Understood. Just one quick last question in response to one of the other participants questions on the domestic margins and whether there was room for improvement. You mentioned that. You might, you know. While there could be improvement, you know, on the execution side to win some orders, you might want to. You might want to give up. Give up right on that side. So just wanted to understand that response in more detail. Right. Because earlier I thought, you know, a few years back, the company’s you know, what do you call it? The strategy used to be to focus more on margins sometimes maybe, you know, I mean, so is there a rethink at an organizational level, the domestic business to focus, I mean to shift the margin versus growth, focus slightly more on the growth side.
Is that something we should read into?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
No, I don’t think so. I think we want to grow, but we also want to improve margins. Right. So at the end of the day we want to grow profitability. We’ve worked very hard over the last few quarters in India especially to raise and improve pricing and glass line. We’re seeing some of that also have an impact now. We also more picky and choosy when it comes to certain orders. But in heavy engineering there are sometimes large orders which might not be as lucrative as a smaller order. But at the same time, the 15% or EBITDA level margin is something that we strive for as a group and in heavy engineering as well, we would probably strive for that.
Something might come in at 12%, 13%, something will come in at 20%, but it will average out. Right. So I don’t think there’s any compromise on any kind of outlook in terms of growing and improving our margins. Maybe Alex, you want to add something here on margins? No, I just could echo what Taraji said. So I think we’ve always been a company that is not only kind of after growth, we want to grow, but we want to do also profitability. Right. So I think a lot of the work that we’re doing today will help us improve profitability as well.
Praveen Kumar — Analyst
Understood. Thanks for the response.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in this conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is on the line of Kunal Mehta from Sunido. Please go ahead.
Kunal Mehta — Analyst
Hi. Very, very good evening, sir. Set of numbers and the improvement of margins on the stand on basis. Sir, I have a question with respect to the international business. Are we sitting on high fixed costs? Are we not operating at optimal levels? Because I think the international business is leading to a little drag on the overall console margins. And I also wanted to know what is the total capacity that we have or what is the peak revenue that we can achieve in terms of all the three segments? If you know going ahead, what guidance can you give on that?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So I’ll start off and then maybe Alex can jump in. So international businesses inherently come with a higher cost structure. Manpower cost in Europe and the US is much higher than low Cost countries like India and China. That’s something that we are quite aware of. But you would have appreciated that we pushed hard to make sure that at least some of this offshoring of production, setting up a new facility in Poland, sourcing from India, sourcing from business. So there is already a thought process that we do feel that we need to reduce our footprint in high cost geographies and move into low cost geographies.
That’s part of our strategy and that’s something that we are working on quite hard. Thomas did mention a few questions ago that we shut down the UK facility last year. We also shut down our Hyderabad facility this year. So there’s always a push on making our cost structure just more and more be efficient. Unfortunately the down cycle came along the same time. If the market was booming it would have been a very different situation. But it’s always good to do some of these, you know, put these cost structures and cost efficiency in now so that when the market improves hopefully some of that will kind of have a positive impact as well.
What was your second question? On margin? Sorry, what did you ask?
Kunal Mehta — Analyst
No, on capacity, let’s say how much capacity that we have because it is difficult for me to assess if let’s say there are multiple orders like this quarter, you all had good order inflow, one of the highest in the last eight quarters. So going ahead, if the market sees an upcycle here, how much capacity we have if we can cater to all the orders.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So I think it’s again very difficult to say we have capacity available in the international business for sure because business is slow there, order intake is slow. So we have capacity available there. India right now in terms of capacity I think we are definitely a little bit less flexible. I think our factories both in Karamsa and in Butwa are 80%, 90% if not more. But we do have plans of increasing through operational efficiencies, better kind of workflows, improvement in terms of the flow of equipment and stuff like that. So we’re trying to improve. But like I said, at least for our non glass line business in Gujarat, in our Recaranta facility we do expect to add some capacity because now we’ve come to a point where we’ll need some more.
Unidentified Speaker
Alex, let me say in fact we know we have here and there higher fixed costs in Europe and the US we re attacked this. We already mentioned the closure of one site in Leven. Therefore in fact we only have two remaining glass line sites in Europe before it was three. So you already saw that it’s a significant reduction which should bring some improvement on our fixed cost base. However, we still depend on orders and this is currently that the customers hold back some orders due to the general uncertainty. So if the orders come back, of course we definitely see directly an improvement in margin and a ramp up of the European as well as the US organization.
The other part we only partly discussed is China. I think China, we have our side there, we have the fixed cost there, we have the operations there. However, the order intake is really, really low and nevertheless we have to keep some part of the cost because we just would like to be present in China. You currently see this in our margin. However, going forward, when China will come back what we expect, we directly see a positive impact on our margin development.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes, just to add maybe one more point is that we also did a restructuring in our Swiss substitution and last year was not a good year for that Swift subsidiary. This quarter has been a decent quarter for them. Obviously these things take time and as order intake improves, we hope that the Swiss subsidiary will also do quite well. So the work is going in. Hopefully some of these orders and opportunities will materialize and then I think we will be in a good position. But international is still a bit slow. India is quite strong this year but like I said, because of the global uncertainty, the investment decisions in US and Europe will take some time.
Kunal Mehta — Analyst
And so what is the update on the Poland, the JV that we have? At what capacity operating and how will the update be.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
In Poland? As you already said, the venture there was starting active a couple of four months ago. In the first phase they had one building and the second building under construction that has been finished. So our manufacturing place is doubling. We already have asked for permits to build building number three and four. So we will increase the capacity and the manufacturing footprint there significantly over the next couple of quarters. And when we are finished we tripled in size and in capacity. We are super pleased with the capacities and the on time deliveries that the qualities that they deliver so far with the product.
And this is going to help our overall footprint optimization significantly in Europe and also lower costs.
Kunal Mehta — Analyst
Okay. And sir, in the presentation I also saw that I may request to rejoin.
operator
The question queue for follow up question.
Unidentified Participant
This, this is just, just one follow up only. It is, it says the SEMPLE outsources the manufacturing. So is that also a benefit to, you know, the fixed cost? Because since it’s outsourced, is it managed in a better way?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
I mean Senco was very attractive for us for a couple of reasons. One reason is of course, access to this interesting market with a lot of growth opportunities, technologies that in this. And. The business model of Senco is engineering, assembly and service and they have outsourced their manufacturing and I think with our global footprint we can help them with outsourcing and giving lower cost sources over time.
Unidentified Speaker
So just to maybe speak a little bit more about Semco, I think because of their size and scale, they didn’t have access to large orders because of their financial kind of, you know, just thinking Brazil, like bank guarantees and things like that. Now there’s a whole new market that opens up because obviously as a bigger company, as a Ford low group, we can kind of, you know, support them with bank guarantees and finances. So that’s something that will open up large, larger orders. I think the backlog in Semco is quite strong. The option pipeline also remains quite strong.
We expect large orders this quarter as well. So Semco is definitely a growth story for us. The margin profile is around 15%. We need to look at low cost sourcing also to maybe try and see if we can improve that. The other benefit of Semco that Semco will get with our group is one is that some of the Semco’s products can be taken to the rest of the world. But Semco also has access to all of Hodler’s products for the Brazilian and the South American markets. Right. The other thing that Semco also needs is low cost engineering project management capabilities which they don’t get very easily in Brazil and we can definitely support them out of the Indian facility.
Right. So a lot of things around Semco that are quite interesting and as it kind of, as time continues, I believe that Semco will play an important part in our growth story.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you sir. All the best.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of JMOD from eiml. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, could you just broadly help us understand how has the mixing business grown for the quarter?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
How much has the mixing business grown for the quarter? I don’t have the exact numbers. I would say high single digit. But let me also give you some color on. Basically today with the addition of Femco, we should be about 65 odd million dollars. That puts us into a very kind of a strong position when it comes to mixing companies globally. I think, I think we are well situated to take as much advantage of our low cost manufacturing, our low cost engineering capabilities capabilities and I think within the four companies that we have in mixing, we have a lot of different technologies Available.
So it does not only cater to one market, there’s multiple markets we cater to and we would like to build that under one umbrella and make sure that we can sell all these technologies around the world. So really the push in mixing is to go out and get market share, go out and compete in new industries, go into areas where we currently don’t have a strong footprint. Right. So that’s really the mixing strategy. And mixing is the growth area for us and we believe that mixing will continue to grow quite well.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Maybe one additional comment regarding mixing because it shows also sometimes the impact of global business. The high single digit growth rate that Tarak mentioned, it’s driven by our operations mainly in Europe and France and Canada. Because the operations of the entity in China, it faces the same problem that we also face with our graftan business. The Chinese market is quiet also for the mixing business. So in other jurisdictions the growth rates are higher. In China it’s more or less, it’s close to negative growth rate.
JMOD — Analyst
Got it. So adjusting for China would be growing in double digits.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
In the mixing business, the expectation is to grow at double digit levels. This is exactly okay to make it clear. Yes, definitely it is. And if you carve out the Chinese de growth that we currently face, yes, we are in the double digit range but China is unfortunately currently not only mixing but also Glassline and I assume also significantly other industries, they do not see the growth and therefore we face their negative impact. But probably end. Canada are doing great and as stated before, also with the latest acquisition Zenco in Brazil, we are also really positive to see that a two digit growth rate.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes. I think one more thing to add is just keep in mind that five years ago our mixing business in India was about 2530 odd crores. Today we are close to 150 crores. Right. So we have tripled or quadrupled the size of that business over the short term. The focus is to continue growing, growing that business. There is more and more need for mixing, industrial mixing across various industries. So we see that as a growth opportunity for sure.
JMOD — Analyst
And sir, in your international business, given the macro situation, although we may have strong order book, but do you think that the execution could be pushed to the next year and this year would likely see a decline or any of your thoughts on that?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
No. So if the orders are on hand, then we will execute them immediately. There’s no way that we can push them out. But new orders coming in that time frame is something that we expect and we see already some positivity there. But again Like I said that it is not as I would say hot as maybe the Indian market right now. But investments will come back eventually. They have started to come back already. But in terms of executions, we can’t push anything out. Whatever orders are on hand will have to be shipped out in this financial year or mainly in this financial year.
And do keep in mind that we still have the services business, which is an ongoing business and those have much shorter deliveries. So that’s something that will continue to come in and will continue to get shipped this year as well.
JMOD — Analyst
Got it. And last question was on this timer and finance.
operator
Sorry to interrupt but I may request you to rejoin the question queue for follow up questions. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kaushik Mohan from Ashika Group. Please go ahead.
Kaushik Mohan — Analyst
Hi sir, I just wanted to understand on one single part, what is our current utilization in Indian business?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
In a factory at last line we would be probably at 80% utilization. In our non gas line business maybe 90% and maybe at heavy engineering about 80%.
Kaushik Mohan — Analyst
Okay, what about our international business?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
I would say depends again on geographies, but I would say anywhere between 50 to 70%, something like that. Maybe a little bit lower also in some cases in China especially.
Kaushik Mohan — Analyst
So is there any differentiations that can we make it that if we are producing only in India and if we are only producing only in outside India, what’s the cost benefit that we are getting it here?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So the material cost across the world is the same? Pretty much the same. So steel will cost you the same anywhere you go. The big arbitrage is really in terms of labor cost. And India and other low cost countries are significantly lower in terms of labor costs. When you compare that with the US and Europe. So there is an arbitrage for sure. And I think that as a company we should take advantage of not only India, but we have low cost sites like I said in Brazil, in Poland. So we have a combination of different opportunities that are available for us.
Sometimes the customers might want it made fully in Europe for which we will use Poland. Sometimes they will be happy with the hybrid situation where we manufacture some of the components India but finished equipment in Europe. Sometimes they are fine with having a full equipment made in Brazil as well. So as a company we have multiple options that we can offer to our clients. I think we are quite well positioned on that front.
Kaushik Mohan — Analyst
Got it sir. Does it actually matter when we are producing from India or when we are producing from any other country? Does it actually matter for a client?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
It could matter for a Client. There are some clients who probably want European quality. There are some European customers who are quite picky. They’ve been buying this for the last 50 years and they want to buy it from the same people to a point. They might even come and check sometimes if the sprayer or the welder is the same. Sprayer or welder, it just depends. But I think the world is changing. People are looking at controlling cost. If the quality levels out of India, Brazil, China are good enough then I don’t see any reason why people should complain about the quality.
Kaushik Mohan — Analyst
Okay, so as we are producing in both the places, what is the quality difference that we assure them that if I’m. It is coming from Europe, what is the quality levels that we are assuring and when it comes from India, what is the quality levels that we are assuring?
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Good question. I think from a quality perspective, I think from a glass lining quality I think it’s quite similar. However, I feel that India can still improve on aesthetics, on finishing. Those are the small areas that we can definitely look at. But we have multiple supplies across the world from India, from Brazil. So it’s always already been tried and tested. We have also currently a system by which we stock and sell blast line reactors in Europe. So we make for stock. These equipment are kept In Germany we sold more than 100 vessels. In Italy we sold equipment from India into the US.
So there’s always an opportunity but like I said, not always is the customer wanting an Indian made product. Right. So as and when we can we definitely make sure that we can find a nice solution for the customer.
Kaushik Mohan — Analyst
And all that is that we have supplies from India into European customers and markets. We have not a single function of complaint yet.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
So it’s also mindset. There is obviously some kind of mindset or that is associated with procuring from India. Low cost countries. Chemical pharma are pretty conservative industries. It takes a bit of time. But over the last few years we’ve made some nice inroads into selling, you know, products made in India into the European and US market.
Kaushik Mohan — Analyst
Got it. Sir, last question from my.
operator
Sorry to interrupt sir, but I may request you to rejoin the question. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kumar Saurabh from Scientific Investing. Please go ahead.
Kumar Saurabh — Analyst
Hello. So I have two questions. First question is what is our current year plan in terms of maintenance? Capex growth. Capex and acquisition and also reduction on debt. That is question number one. And second question is if we see the total EBITDA of all our subsidiaries in FY25 and correct me if I’m wrong, I think we have met 140 crore losses at EBITDA level and I know a lot of initiatives have been taken in terms of moving the equipment from high cost nation to low cost nation, all of that. But let’s take next one to three years.
What is our plan to bring down this EBITDA loss to zero and do we have a concrete plan with timelines that when this can be achieved or this is something which is a function of demand which is beyond our control? What is your view? These are two questions I have.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
I’m not sure if I understand correctly. Last year we had an EBITDA of close to 380 crores. So I’m not sure what EBITDA lost you’re speaking of. Having said that, obviously this year looks definitely stronger. We do expect to improve both in terms of revenue and EBITDA at a consolid level and also at an India level.
Kumar Saurabh — Analyst
There were subsidiaries which are showing EBITDA level losses. So if we sum up those subsidiaries with EBITDA level losses, then this number sums up to some -40 crore. Though our overall console EBITDA as you said is 340 and correct me, it is wrong.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
You’re right. I think you referred to one entity where we had a negative ebitda. Yes, the one in Switzerland. And as said before, we focused on the restructuring and we already see now an improvement and Tarek, I think he mentioned it even before that it has a good start into the year. So yeah, it will further improve. However it’s. It will not be so fast that you directly have to turnaround within six or nine months but we definitely see a better result than last year.
Kumar Saurabh — Analyst
Sure, sure. And regarding the CAPEX plan and the uses of cash flows, so CapEx at.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
The maintenance level for a group we are about 2%. That’s what our normal capex is. We do plan some capex in India in the range of about 10 odd crores. Not significant. That’s growth capex to increase capacity. And on the debt, I said on the debt we currently we have a net debt to ebitda ratio of 0.7 and I think in our last latest guidance we said that we would like to be below 1. We will remain below 1. Although we of course we act now with another acquisition, it adds some debt. However we of course will also use some of our cash on the balance sheet to finance this acquisition. Just to remind you Senco will cost us 18.5 million USD on a cash and debt free basis.
Kumar Saurabh — Analyst
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in interest of time, this would be our last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Tarak Patel — Managing Director
Thank you, Amsha. Thank you everyone for joining us today. It was pleasure interacting with you and we look forward to many such interactions during the course of the year. Take care and see you soon.
operator
Thank you on behalf of GMM Faudler Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.
Unidentified Speaker
It.