Genus Power Infrastructures Limited (NSE: GENUSPOWER) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 14, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Abhijeet Purohit — Analyst
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
Analysts:
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Darsh Solanki — Analyst
Devanand Mohan — Analyst
Chandresh Malpani — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Aditya Welekar — Analyst
Rohan Vora — Analyst
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q3 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of Genius Power Infrastructures Limited, hosted by Kavira Securities Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistant during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on a phone.
Please note that this conference is being recorded. Please note, this conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on-date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. I now hand the conference over to Mr Abhijit Mukesh Prohit from Kavira Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Abhijeet Purohit — Analyst
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. Kaviraj Securities Private Limited welcomes you all for Q3 and Nine-Month FY ’25 earnings conference call of Power Infrastructures Limited. Today, on the call we have with us Mr Agarwal, Vice-Chairman; and Mr Jitender Agarwal, Joint Managing Director. Now, without any further delay, I would like to hand over the call to Mr Keralash Agarwal for his opening comments, post which we will open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, Kalash, sir.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Good evening, everybody. As I am, so I would request to have the question-answer. We can start with the question-answer because I don’t have the details or the numbers, the opening remarks with me. So sorry for that. And please we can go for the question-and-answers, please.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press R&1 on the touchdown telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press R and two. Participants are requested to use while asking a question ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles first question is from the line of Pandia from Finn Inters Capital. Please go-ahead.
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
Hello. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir.
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
Yeah, hi. Sir, yes, sir. Congratulations on this great set of numbers, sir. Sir, my first question would be on the EBITDA margin side, since this has been the one of the best margins that we have done in the company’s history. What led to this margin expansion and what kind of margins do we expect going-forward from this?
Abhijeet Purohit — Analyst
Basically, we have given a guidance of 15% 16% EBITDA, always 16% always and you have to stick on that there might be some differences in the margin from quarter-to-quarter, but we should not see that. It’s always we have to see the average margins on a yearly basis. That is important. So we are again on the same guidance that we will be doing a 15% 16% EBITDA and that — that is for sure.
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
I get it. But sir, what led to this margin expansion for this quarter?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Sometimes — sometimes it happens, it is the quality of meters, the number of meters or there are many things that is not — that is not properly explained. Basically, it’s always important to understand the average margin.
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
Got it. And sir, can you please elaborate something on the strategic investment business segment? What is it about
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Sorry, strategic
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
— strategic investment business that we have separately shown in our P&L.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So that’s already — we are working on that and that’s already filed in NCLT that’s an investment — different investment in non-listic companies and some group companies and all that has been going out that is already being filed with the of the company and it is taking some time and that is the only thing that it’s old very old process going on.
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
Okay. And lastly, sir, I’d like to have some update regarding the ED search that happened in the month of December that the company notified on the exchange. What’s the update on that? Have they find any material?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
We have already — we have already given an update from that has been searched and we have informed that to the exchanges. And after that, we haven’t received anything from the department or from the court or anything. Once we will do — get that, we will inform
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
Got it, got it. That actually makes sense, sense, sir. Thank you so much, sir. I’ll get back-in the queue. Thank you so much. Bye.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahesh Patal from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead.
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Yeah. Hello, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my question is on the other expenses, which have gone up substantially this quarter. So anything particular, any one-off or due to which the expenses have gone up, other expenses I’m talking about?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
And other expenses, if you will see in consolidated that has gone up because as per the accounting policy, I don’t know what that is because of the auditors only. When they say that MTN or mark-to-mark, it’s all the notional, one thing you have to understand that it is a notional thing. Whenever there is a profit, they take it in other income. And when they — whenever there is a loss in MTM, they take it in other — sorry, other income and when there is a loss, they take it in other expenses.
So that is been taken in as other expenses because of the NTM of Genus Paper, the shares hold by Genus Power, because of that, that has been increased. So otherwise, there is no significant increase in other expenses.
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Okay, sir. Okay. And sir, my second question is on the ordering. Sorry, on the ordering. Can you repeat on the ordering, sir? Hello.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Can you repeat? I could not take your — could not understand your question. Sir, my second question is on the — on the ordering, smart meter ordering. Any further orders that have been — I guess we haven’t received anything in Q3, right? Any further orders that are in pipeline, any tenders that are there?
There are no major tenders in the pipeline. Yes, there are always few tenders going on, but there are no major tenders in the pipeline. And on the ordering side, Genus is fairly good. If you ask me personally, I would rather be more happy that nothing much happens in next six to nine months, which is definitely not in our hands. But otherwise, yes, it is — there is no major tend risk happening in next quarter at least.
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Okay. Okay. And sir, another question that I had on the — so whatever meters that we have instorted that are — we have executed the orders. There is this — there is this payment milestone, right, I think four or five months down the line or 35% of meters, something like that. Post which the monthly charges for the meters start, correct?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
There is no payment milestone as such. Whenever you use dollar meter, then you have to do the operation go-live. It works
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Correct.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
In this fashion. So I don’t know what milestone you’re talking about. I don’t see there is any payment milestone. Every tender is different, but there is no payment milestone as such.
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Okay, okay. Just from what I was — what I understood was after four or five months, there was some milestone like 30% of meters or something like that installed. It might vary from tender to-end obviously. Post which the — after the testing of those meters, then the monthly service charges.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So it is a different type of meter that for first-six months you have to install some percentage of DT meters, some percentage of meter meters. So your question is not very clear. So there is no asset payment milestone.
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Okay, okay. Okay, sir. Sure. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Akash Mehta from Karana HSBC Life. Please go-ahead.
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Hi, sir. So my first question is in terms of the number of meters that have been manufactured during the quarter. I mean, if you could just help out with that number first,
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Number, we don’t manufactured
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Yeah, made, made during the quarter also supplied, I mean so because our target was about 1 million, right? I mean a month. So I mean, where are we in terms of that?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So last quarter, absolute exact number I don’t have in my hand, but we have produced closer to 3 million people.
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Okay. So we are — so it was 2 million in the previous quarter, right? I mean, and then it has increased to 3 million. Is that?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yes, correct.
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Okay. So we are on-track Of 1 million.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So it’s all smart and all, it’s a complete product mix.
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Okay. But if I were to make a like-to-like comparison, it’s say 3 million versus 2 million in the second-quarter.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So it was not exactly 2 million, it is not exactly same year, but I guess quarter-to-quarter you can compare like that.
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Understood. Understood. And second is on — sir, if you could — I mean any specific guidance in terms of fiscal ’26, I mean, and in terms of Q4 fiscal ’25 or fiscal ’25 revenue guidance of INR2,500 crores, you are maintaining that.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
We are 100% maintaining that.
Akash Mehta — Analyst
And any guidance for ’26 on revenue and margins?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
What is it?, if you want to speak on that generally — can you please come again?
Akash Mehta — Analyst
No, no.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
’26, we have already given a guidance last quarter that we will be doing another 30%, 40% of of this year, we have given a guidance of INR2,500 and there will be surely expense increase of 30% to 40% for next year and a margin would be broadly same at 15% to 16% range. Yeah, margins already we have given the same guidance yeah.
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Understood. Understood. And in terms of new tenders or new orders that — I mean in the previous participant also questioned, I mean any specific reason why there has not been any pickup? I mean over the past few months and
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
If you will see historically also when country moved from electromechanical to electronic meters, so there is no pattern as such, but it is becoming a pattern given historically the South was little slower in moving to electronic meters. Same thing we — I am seeing in smart meters also that South is moving little slower. And if you ask me frankly, it is good for the industry. You can’t eat everything so fast. So it is good for the industry also. Industry is getting matured, it is good for us that we are taking their time because already the order book is very, very healthy.
Akash Mehta — Analyst
Understood. Yeah, that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chinmei Kabra from Emkay Global Financial Services. Please go-ahead yes, mister, go with the question please
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Audible?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Hello.
Operator
You’re audible.
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Yeah, hi.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
You are audible. Yeah, you are pleased.
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Congratulations for the great set of numbers. So just wanted to gain an understanding on the net working capital days, like we had previously mentioned with the execution of the AMISP orders that we have taken-up, net working capital base will see an incline in the initial period. And going ahead, it will see a dip. So how has the net working capital days played out for us at present?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So right now, if the initial stage where we are picking-up the different projects, there are so many projects and every single project has — they are just picking-up on that. So right now, there is no improvement in the working capital cycle rather it is little more than what we expected. But coming forward or going-forward, it will be surely improved once the FAT or the of the different projects will start getting up.
So initially for next six months, you will see that there is no improvement in the working capital cycle for next days or
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Any range that we can give, sir, at which we are operating right now?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
It’s very — it’s very difficult to give the range of that because as I told you, it’s again a new business where we are putting the meters and we are getting the wood yields and the SATs to be done. And almost — there are 25 projects we are working on. So some projects are far, some are some are slow. So it’s very difficult to give the exact dates, but surely there will be improvement in the working capital cycle, but it will take some time.
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Understood, sir. Understood. So since you had mentioned in your press release that the Assam brownfield capex, the capacity expansion has taken place. So just wanted to understand how is the ramp-up in terms of execution going on over there, sir? Have we started production at that’s at the — in the new capacity installed?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yes, we have already started production at the new capacity.
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Understood, sir. And if maybe you could get a capacity utilization level on a holistic genus level maybe.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yeah, holistic genus level and we are also supplying to all the utilities in the country, but every utility is only buying smart meters. So it is overall supporting our complete business.
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Understood, sir. Just had one another question. So since we did register a good 19% margins this quarter, and if I just build-in an approximate 15% to 16% margins for the entire year of FY ’25. So basis the balancing figures or the estimates, my margins for Q4 come to around 12% to 12.5%, so should we consider that going ahead or we can obviously see an escalation given our trajectory in the last 3/4, if we can see an improvement in that as well?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Can you come again with your question please? Sorry?
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Yes, sure. So for the entire year FY ’25, you have been going ahead with the guidance of 15% to 16%. Given that we have beaten this estimate in Nine-Month FY ’25, can we see the similar pattern play-out in Q4 in the sense that we could obviously come back-in the 15% 16% range registered in Q4 FY ’25, sir? Yes.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So every quarter there will be a difference. It won’t be a similar every quarter. It will — that there are so many things that vary from quarter-to-quarter. So sometimes it will be more, sometimes it will be less, but average you will see that will be 15%, 16%.
Chinmay Kabra — Analyst
Understood, sir. Yeah, those are my questions. Thank you.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Darsh from Axis Securities. Please go-ahead.
Darsh Solanki — Analyst
Yeah, sir. Thank you. So sir, most of my questions have been answered. Just clear. Your voice is not voice is not clear, Mr. Is it better? Hello. Yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah. So sir, I just wanted to ask in the last conference call, so we had been informed that three plants — three projects in Assam and one in who are expected to go-live in, say, a couple of months. So just wanted to check the theaters if those projects have been bought the go-live status.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So all the four projects in farm have go-live. So they are all on operational goal. And in terms of, but there are two projects running. One will should get go-live in next week and the other by the end of next week. So I’m expecting both projects also go-live in next seven to 10 days., understood. All the fall merities and everything has been done.
Darsh Solanki — Analyst
Understood. Thank you. And sir, my next question is more on-the-water meter side. So did we get any order — export orders for the water metres this quarter?.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So nothing — currently our water meter business is we are developing the products, lot of certifications are happening, certification stakes, especially for the international market, they take 12 to 18 months in some cases, some cases, two, two years. So it is the process — we are in the right direction. So I will — we will start seeing some numbers for next financial year onwards. But yes, it will take two to three years for this business to become significant. Understood. But we are in the right direction and we are absolutely moving forward with that.
Darsh Solanki — Analyst
Understood. Understood. And just last thing, just more of a clarification. So what I understood from the previous questions is that we don’t expect much of a tendering inflow for the at least next couple of quarters. So is that understanding correct?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yes, that understanding correct. There is no major tender happening in next quarter at least.
Darsh Solanki — Analyst
Understood. Okay, sir. That’s it from my side. Thank you.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devan Mohan from Evendus Spark. Please go-ahead.
Devanand Mohan — Analyst
Yeah, hello. Am I audible?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yes, please.
Devanand Mohan — Analyst
Yeah. My great set of numbers. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. My first question, I just wanted to ask, how will you be getting payments from the discoms through the JV? Will there be any delays with the monthly payments that the JV is supposed to get or is it like fixed? Will it come every single month without fail
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So there are so many technical processes which you have to complete like site Acceptance, operational go-live and then only it become — it comes on the opex side. Once the project becomes opex, then it happens every month automatically. So that has been the DDF signed with all the utilities. So they are — all the projects are currently in the initial stages. Yes, the initial stages has taken some more time than what everybody was expecting, but that is everywhere across the country and for all the AMI experience is not something unique for Genius. So once it is operational go-live, then DDF will come into function and once DDF is into function, everything will happen automatically.
Devanand Mohan — Analyst
Okay. Just on average, what kind of tariff are you looking at from the discounts? Like what kind of collections per month per smart meter would you say you’re getting?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Collections, not it’s a fixed-price would we have to charge there. I could not understand what they — their collection, we are not tracking that. But what we have to take from them is a fixed-charge.
Devanand Mohan — Analyst
Okay. So how much would the — would the smart meter go for them? The price of the smart meter?
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
It is different to project-to-project. It’s very difficult to say.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Every project has a different price, every product has a different price. So it is a huge variation
Devanand Mohan — Analyst
On average.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
On average was consumer meter for DT meter is different for different state electricity.
Devanand Mohan — Analyst
Okay. Okay, fine. Thank you. Just one more question. There are about 12 crore smart meters that are yet to be awarded, right, for the RDS. What kind of market-share are you looking to achieve for the next wave of orders that are coming? Like are you still looking to hover around the 20% or do you think there’s any chance to go up or something like that?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Currently our order book is very, very healthy and according to the tenders coming, we will be making our strategy. But yes, Genus will always be a very significant player in the market that I can assure you.
Devanand Mohan — Analyst
So market-share will broadly stay stable. As I said, Genus will be a significant player in the market. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That’s all.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press char and one to ask a question. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Changesh Malpani from Nivesha Investment Advisors. Please go-ahead.
Chandresh Malpani — Analyst
Hello. Yes, sir. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. So my question is on the working capital and overall capital requirement for the business. So when we are saying that we’ll be executing about INR3,500 odd crores of revenue, so what are we anticipating on the working capital front? And also, I would like to know the fund infusion that the Genus entity would be — would be required — would be required to do in the platform this year and going-forward. So how are we managing that?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So basically, as I told you that working capital will surely be improving and I don’t — we don’t see any more debt increase to the company. And regarding the investments in the JV, basically the total investment that has to do is almost $200 million and that will be in three to four years. So next year, whatever there will be internal accruals that will be sufficient for the investment in the JV. You don’t need any debt or anything to invest for the JV.
Chandresh Malpani — Analyst
Okay. And sir, what would be our gross debt and net-debt as at December or
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So gross debt is right now is around INR1,200 crores and net-debt will be around INR3,400 crores.
Chandresh Malpani — Analyst
Okay. And okay. And sir, secondly on the imports side, like what we understand is majority of our electronic components are imported. So any challenges that Genas as an entity or the industry is seeing in terms of the execution that is lined-up? Or and secondly, on the same lines, since this is any impact on the ForEx side because — and how are we hedged on that side.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So in terms of component availability, we don’t see any major challenge. So this execution is going very smooth. And in terms of ForEx, we have a hedging policy and we follow that.
Chandresh Malpani — Analyst
Okay. So no major impact we are seeing, right?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yeah.
Chandresh Malpani — Analyst
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Milin Kamakar from
Unidentified Participant
Hi, sir. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Just wanted to understand that now that we can see traction coming into sales, I hope that this continues, the growth continues for some time. But I had one question on the opportunity because what has happened is that if I look at the data, take, for example, Maharashtra, the number of meters which have been approved and number of meters which have been installed, there is a huge difference.
I mean, they have not even installed 10% of the meters. And there are many other states where a similar thing we can see. So what is the reason for that? I wanted to know. And as you rightly said that currently the capacity is not very large. So it’s better that it happens over a period. But my question is more on — since your business is B2G, that is your main customer is government, do you see any difficulties or any type of hindrances in the final completion of the — so orders you have got, but execution of orders or the final go-ahead by the government.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
If you will see almost every state picking-up now, this is a big consumer subject that you have to install meters to each and every consumer. So it is not that simple and it is a change of mindset from utility to the consumer for everyone. And you will see numbers are going up for — not only for Gener, for every AMISP. So quarter-on-quarter, you will see that improvement across the country. Being a new concept, it takes some time for the utilities to seep in for the local administration to seep in for the local consumers to seep in
That from tomorrow onwards, suddenly from postpaid, my meter will become prepaid and there is a very good program being run by all the AMISPs under the guidance of Government of India, under the guidance of local utilities where the consumers are also it. So you will see these numbers growing up every quarter, every month, there is improvement. And yes, these kinds — this is a major change. So that it — such kind of change will take some time, but yes, it is picking-up. You will see your own state, Maharashtra in, next quarter you will be — you will be surprised what will happen in Maharashtra from March, April onwards.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, interesting. Okay. One more thing which I wanted to know like you just now said that you’re moving from postpaid to prepaid. But is it — is it so that all the meter — which were — all the meters which will be installed will be prepaid or it’s at the option of the utility?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
No, no, it will be prepaid. Over the period of time, it will become prepaid for everyone. As on — as per the guidelines currently, these meters are smart enough to be used as prepaid and postpaid both. At the end-of-the day, it is the choice of the utility. But as per the current norms, every meter has to become prepaid.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And as far as the growth is concerned, we have already seen a good growth in this quarter. So traction seems to be taking. But if I look at the order book, which you have, even this growth seems to be small. So the — do you think that the growth can accelerate going-forward or you think that, say, 25% 30% growth what — because it looks like that, you know what the government wanted to finish in probably three years is likely to take six, seven years.
So your growth may be at, say, 30% year-on-year can continue for a long period of time. Am I right in that or you will see a significant — you are right in that.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
This is what we have been maintaining because it was a very ambitious project to be completed in three years. Yes, practically it will take its own time, which is good for the industry ods.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you very much and all the best.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press char and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Aditya from Axis Cap Securities. Please go-ahead.
Aditya Welekar — Analyst
Yeah. Thank you, sir, for This opportunity and congrats for the great set of numbers. So for Q4 — Q3, we have delivered great numbers, but if we look for the overall ’24 numbers, so Q4 will require a steep growth in the top-line. So will it be possible to achieve that or some of it will spill to next calendar year?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So we are maintaining the same guidance what we gave earlier and we are confident of achieving the numbers what we have already given in the guidance.
Aditya Welekar — Analyst
Okay. And next one is this order book means you said that couple of quarters we may not see much of a tendering activity. But post that
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Your — your voice is not very clear, sir.
Aditya Welekar — Analyst
Yeah, what I was asking is see couple in the next couple of quarters, we may not see much of a tendering activity, as you said. So post that, do we see the order book to pick-up or this is a peak for us now
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So as I said, I don’t see any major tenders happening in next quarter. And thereafter, there are many states who have still not gone for smart meters. Eventually everybody will have to go for smart meters. So you will see tenders coming — so next financial year, I see states from downsouth also becoming active in the smart metering. So I don’t see major tenders happening for next quarter at least.
Aditya Welekar — Analyst
Okay. And this RDSS scheme, this will continue, right, means whatever the government support is there through the scheme, this will be continuing for — to involve all the states and the focus of the government, any macro color you can give?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So macro government of India is very clear and it is a necessity for the country to go for this because the way the energy transition is happening across the globe, not only in India, smart grid is the must. And for smart grids, smart meters is the must. So I don’t see any chance of going back from smart meters to our convention meters. So it has to happen. It’s just a matter of time.
Aditya Welekar — Analyst
Perfect, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot and all the best.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan Vora from Envision Capital. Please go-ahead.
Rohan Vora — Analyst
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on the numbers. So, sir, my question was on you know
Operator
In-sourcing and nice from your side.
Rohan Vora — Analyst
Is it clear now? Hello.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
There’s some phone is ringing on the background. I don’t know why people are not. They’re doing multiple things at a time.
Rohan Vora — Analyst
Sir, there is a problem with the line I think I’ll get back-in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pranjal Mukherjee from Growth Spheres Ventures. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, sir, am I audible?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yes, please. Hi, thank you for giving me this opportunity and congratulations on a good set of numbers, sir. So I have a couple of questions on the policy part of smart metering. So just like building up on one of the previous participants’ question on prepaid versus postpaid, so recently, there was an article in the news saying that how MSEDCL is sort of planning to scrap the prepaid billing for consumers and propose time of the day bill like how this would sort of benefit the consumer in terms of like their consumption
And basically they’ll be able to save some 80 pesa per unit. And this policy is like — like I mean, they’re planning to sort of started from April 1. So I just wanted to understand, sir, like what do you think of this policy, like what kind of material impact can it have on us? And generally like how would a — like a consumer react to it?
Can you repeat, we are saying MSADCL has come is planning to come with a policy where they will give discount on the prepaid. Hello. Yes, sir. What you are saying is is planning to give discount on tariff for the prepaid consumers. This is what you’re saying?
Unidentified Participant
No, so basically they were seeing the article that I was reading and it was basically mentioning that there time to scrap the prepaid billing and the time of the day billing, through which like consumers would — the tariffs would be based on consumption in different time slaps throughout the day.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So these are two separate things. Prepaid, whether MSCDCL wants to continue to scrap it is definitely the choice of MSCDCL, but to the best of my understanding, currently all the smart meter tenders are on the prepaid boot. So if they — and meters are smart enough to be treated or postpaid, I don’t know what that article says. I have not read that. So MSATCL can easily shuffle between the two. Time of day use is one of the biggest features of smart meters, not only, almost every state electricity board in the country.
And if you will go, if you’ll read the article almost 18 months back, central government has also given the guidance that how time of day use has to be implemented in the country over the period of time. So you will see once the smart meters usage will happen rampantly across the country, time of day use has to come, which is a very important feature of smart meters for the consumer. Farm government has already declared that we will go for time of their use. Is already talking about it because tariff change and tariff structure is a very state subject, central subject and regulatory commissions also get involved, so it takes its own time. But eventually it has to.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And sir, so given in the last couple of months, we’ve also seen like the meters installation, like the pace of it has increased. So like a couple of months back, we were at INR1.3 crores, now we crossed INR2 crores meter installed. So I just wanted to understand again like from a policy point-of-view, I read that there is a new policy called the direct debit facility through which like basically ensures like 5x of the monthly estimated AMISP service charge and like how this will sort of boost like faster rollout of smart meters in FY ’26. So just wanted to understand the policy from you a little bit better and like the integrations of it.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So I don’t understand — I don’t know which article you are talking about and what does this means for AMISP, it’s a fixed-charge for 10 years. This is what we are going to charge the utility per meter per month and direct debit facility has always been a part of that industry. So this whole RDSS program is based on the direct debit facility. So there is no change in the policy there is nothing which is new. All right, sir. And like one final question a little bit on the competitive scenario, sir, like any comments on that? Any business which will grow up will always have a competition.
But at the same time, if you do your work correctly, it will be always ahead of the competition because this is what we are trying to do and this is what we have been doing. So competition is — will get more-and-more figures. Genus is well-placed to take care of everything?
Unidentified Participant
No, sir, the point of asking this question was I just wanted to understand like are we still in that nascent stage of competition where new people — new players are entering or maybe a year, two years down the line, you might see some consolidation also happening in the industry.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Currently, I’m not seeing lot of new AISPs already there is a very large number of AMISPs already in the market. So as such, I’m not seeing any significant new player coming in the market now.
Unidentified Participant
You. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. All the best for the future results
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask question. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sohan Joshi from ASC Consultants. Please go-ahead.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Congratulations about this great set of numbers. Sir, my first question is, since you said that you will be able to achieve this year’s guidance of INR2,500 crores, which requires almost a 10% quarter-on-quarter top-line growth. So want to understand will the entire growth will come from the new Assam facility only with this 50% any incremental revenue to achieve the guidance of INR2,500 crores.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Really facility is not giving major — so it is not from new Asam facility, it is from the overall growth of the business.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Yeah, you got it. But then — so have we added additional capacities to the existing facilities as well to achieve this guidance of INR2,500 crores and thereafter for the next year 20% additional top-line growth?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yeah. So we are continuously adding — in the past also, we have maintained that adding capacity for is not very difficult because we do complete backward and Forward integration and the manufacturing of meters is such that you can ramp-up your capability and capacity in three to six months. There’s lot of past — the long-term time-taking things has been taken care in the past, right? So has the capability to ramp-up its production with the addition of new facility in has further added to our strength. So capacity will not be a problem. It was never a problem in the past and it won’t be a problem in the future. It is more execution and generally the last quarter of the year is the best time of the sales. So we are maintaining our guidance and we are confident that we will achieve what we have committed earlier.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Okay. So there won’t be any constant with regards to the tightening working capital condition as well, right? I mean, that won’t be a constraint for achieving a top-line growth, right, even for this quarter — for the quarter.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
That won’t be a constraint. We are confident for that.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Okay. My next question is with regards to the raw-material cost. Since most of our contracts are fixed finance contracts, how are we seeing the raw — I mean, we won’t be able to pass the raw-material cost escalation. So how are we seeing the raw-material cost in the upcoming quarters in upcoming years? Is it rising or is it stable?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
If you’ll see the past history of, the maximum raw-material increase was during the COVID period. Still we were not impacted very badly. Though it makes a difference, but not very badly because we are a high-technology product, we are not a very-high BUM product. So when you have a very-high technology product and not a very-high well. There is a difference that is a difference that comes due to raw-material, but not media. So if you see the history of, we will understand it better.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Okay. Okay. One last question is with regard to this M2M loss which we have hit — which has hit the P&L this quarter, do you expect that to be hit even in upcoming quarter because that ultimately has an impact on the EPS growth. So do you expect that to be hit even in next quarter as well in the upcoming Q4 quarter
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Hello, hello. You have to hello
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
, am I audible?
Operator
The line got dropped it disconnecting.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Okay. So we’ll just wait for to respond
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
To last sir. Sorry, sorry, can you — I just got this connected. Can I get?
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Yeah, sure. Yeah, can you sir. Yeah, the MPM, MTM loss which has hit our P&L this quarter, do you expect to be — the loss to be further widened in the next quarter because ultimately it drags our EPS.
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
Basically it’s absolutely a notional loss only a notional profit or not. We have to understand that it is dependent or on the market, whether it is going up, it is going down, share price going up, share price going down. So nothing to do with the actual profit or loss. So this is MTM absolutely. It may go further, more losses, it may go to the profits and all, but that is not affecting in any way through the company because it’s absolutely not still lose only.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Okay. Thank you all the best for upcoming quarter.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mota from Info Edge. Please go-ahead
Unidentified Participant
Hello, am I? Hello? Yeah. Yeah. So I had two questions basically. One is because of the Trump tariffs since most of our products are imported, so will that impact our bottom-line or top-line in the coming time? And second of all, we have seen that the government orders have slowed down in many segments, in many industries. Since majority of our income comes from the smart meters itself, which is dependent on government.
So is this ordering delay from the government going to impact us in coming year or in next six to nine months
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
This tariff has no major concern to the company as I’ve spoken earlier also, though we import electronic components, but it is not only from — it is not from US, it is from different parts of the world and that is not a very major impact on the raw-material cost. First thing. Secondly, what is the second question, can you repeat?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, the second question was regarding that we have major orders from the government for smart meters?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yeah, yeah, I got your point. Yeah. So as I said earlier also, the ordering of government has slowed down has nothing to do with the RDSS segment. It is primarily some of the utilities have taken more time in getting on to RDSS wagon and start ordering smart meters. And if you ask me, frankly, it is good for the industry.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Thank you, sir.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please limit your question to two questions per participants. Do you have follow-up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Mora from Jain Mae Ventures. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Good evening, gentlemen. Congrats on good set of numbers. For the guidance of INR3,500 crores for this financial year, what is the number of meters we are assuming that we will sell?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So number of meters always these numbers have a lot of dependence on the variety of meters. So numbers will be around 3 million to 3.5 million. I don’t want to specify on the numbers because then it becomes very confusing. So that is why I want to specify on the overall guidance. So it is not only dependent on the number of — number of meters because there is a great mix of meters that makes a big difference?
Unidentified Participant
Sure, sure. So you are seeing 3 to 3.5 million meters in that range. Yes. Okay. And could you give that idea, are you giving any guidance for next financial year?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So we — we spoke during the conference only that what we have told earlier in the same that we are the same 30% to 35% growth in the next financial year.
Unidentified Participant
35% revenue growth. Okay. Okay. And what is the biggest challenge since most participants are trying to understand you have a massive order book and there are reasons for slow any anything new and which always takes longer time, I understand. So in your opinion, what are the biggest orders to improve the installation rate, is it from the company side, what are the issues and what is the customer side governments and issues if you can give some more idea? Let us to see your viewpoint.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
It’s a — I would say it’s overall ecosystem is just picking-up. These are very consumer-centric infrastructure projects. These are not greenfield infrastructure projects where you just go underground and start implementing the things. So it’s a complete change of ecosystem, complete change of mindset from — for everybody in the country. But this is a — this is one project which will touch each and every human of this country, right?
So that is why it is an ecosystem which is getting built, but things are absolutely in the right direction. You will only see numbers growing significantly in quarter-on-quarter for the whole country.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. So would you say that most of the big
Operator
— MR. I just request you to rejoin the queue for the follow-up question, please.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you.
Operator
Yeah. Thank you. The next question is from the line of from Aventus Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello, am I audible? Hello?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yes, please.
Operator
Yes, sir, you’re audible.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So I had two questions for the company for you. So the Gene is shifting to a software-driven model. So what share of revenue can we expect it from in the coming years from the software solution.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
This software-driven model means what can be like as you,
Unidentified Participant
As you mentioned in the annual report of in 2024, so you are focusing more on software solutions now. So could you expect higher revenue from that and lesser from the manufacturing?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So currently — currently it is a integration for us. All the software services which we were buying from outside like head-end system, meter data management, MDMS software, that is that — so it will not — it is not going to impact our top-line, your top-line is going to be same. So it is like it is more of a backward integration currently. But moving forward, we will make software as a major business for us. This is what we plan to do. But currently it is not visible on the deadline
Unidentified Participant
. Okay. And another question I had that pretty more details on the contract payment terms, like how does the contract — how does the payment is received by Genus so like in a contract?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
What is the payment received by Genus? Once you look at its a tender, so process is clearly written-down then once we install the meters we have to do the site, then the operation go-live happens and then initial funds come from the utility when DDF comes into place. So what exactly you want to understand in this? I could not understand.
Unidentified Participant
So the time-frame of every contract is like eight to 10 years only.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Yeah, timeframe of every contract is eight to 10 minutes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, all right. And if you could
Operator
Request you to rejoin the queue for the follow-up questions?
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Operator
Yeah. Thank you. The thank you. The next question is from the line of Mahesh Patal from ICICI Securities. Please go-ahead. Yes, Mr Mahesh, go with the question please.
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Sorry, my question has been answered. It was regarding the facility. Thank you.
Operator
Okay. Thank you.
Mahesh Patil — Analyst
Thank you thank you. The next question is from the line of Pania from Finn Interest Capital. Please go-ahead.
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
Hello. Sir, just wanted to confirm, as far as I remember, the last call we did, we guided for a 50% top-line in FY ’26 and right now we are saying about, about 30% 35%. So are we reducing the guidance or just wanted to understand from your side.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So we are not reducing the guidance as such. We are just being — I would say, sir, if you want to answer this.
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
No, no, it’s nothing like that we are reducing the guidelines. When we say 40%, it’s almost — we are on the track. So nothing on that. We are absolutely on the track. Guidance for this year is also the same and for the next year also is the same.
Darshil Pandya — Analyst
Got it, got it. All right, sir. Thank you so much and all the best.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Paris from Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So first of all, thanks for the opportunity and congratulation for such a good set of numbers. I have just two questions. Sir, if you could please provide the breakup of the order book as in metal installation and OLM part. And also the second question is, if you could just give us an update on the gas meter, has company won any contract on the gas meter and what is the company’s strategy around it?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
So on the breakup of order book, I don’t have it a friend with me and I don’t want to give any approximate numbers. So you can reach-out to SGA, we’ll provide you that on the gas side, this is also fine. Hello
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, sir, in terms of percentage also, it’s fine. We don’t want exact number.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
I don’t want to –, I don’t want to comment anything vague very frankly. So we might like to speak over it. And on the gas meter side, as we — it is a — it is like a conventional electronic meter business, which will be — which will have a decent growth. It won’t be very large numbers, it won’t be very small numbers. It will have a decent growth. It will be like a conventional electronic media business.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you so much and all the best.
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sohan Joshi from ASC Consultants. Please go-ahead.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, sir. Thank you for taking my follow-up question. One just last question. Even in the worst-case scenario of the response from the EDE, ED search, it won’t in any way hamper our manufacturing and maybe a question to achieve target revenue of INR2,500 crore, right? It won’t be any constraint, even if the worst-case earnings cost come from the ED, right?
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Hello. Sir, you want to respond on that?
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
Yeah. Come again with the question?
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Yeah, please. Even in the worst-case response from the ED with respect to the search which have taken place, it won’t hamper our manufacturing and it won’t be a constant to achieve a target of INR2,500 crores, right?
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
Yes. If you see that the surf happened on 3rd of December, it’s almost 2.5 months. So nothing to do with the manufacturing, nothing to do with our business. It’s a normal-course, there is some inquiry and it happens. So there will be no effect on the business of the company.
Sohan Joshi — Analyst
Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot, sir. Thanks a lot. That’s it from my end.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr Kalash Agarwal for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Kailash Agarwal — Non-Executive Non-Independent Vice Chairman of the Board
Thank you very much, dear friends for your confidence and in the company. And we assure you that there is absolutely company is doing great and it will be going upward upwards. And don’t worry about the EV, anything that has happened 2.5 months back and nothing going on. I’m absolutely fine with the company. Thank you very much.
Jitendra Kumar Agarwal — Joint Managing Director
Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Kavira Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.