Gateway Distriparks Limited (NSE: GATEWAY) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 03, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Analysts:
Kaustav Bubna — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Anirudh A. Damani — Analyst
Achal Lohade — Analyst
Amit Dixit — Analyst
Krupashankar NJ — Analyst
Vishal Darji — Analyst
Aniket Kulkarni — Analyst
Jainam Shah — Analyst
Koundinya Nimmagadda — Analyst
CA Riya Mehta — Analyst
Vikram Suryavanshi — Analyst
Aditya Mongia — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3FY25 earnings conference call of Gateway District Parks Limited and Snowman Logistics Limited. This conference call may contain forward looking statements about the company which are based on belief, opinion and expectation of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risk and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your Touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded today.
On the call we have Mr. Prem Kishan Dasgupta, Chairman and Managing Director Mr. Ishan Gupta, Joint Managing Director Mr. Samvit Gupta, Joint Managing Director Mr. Kartik Sundaram Iyer, CFO GDL Mr. Sajguru Begal, President, Rail GDL Mr. Manoj Singh, President, CFS GDL Padamdeep Singh Handa, CEO and Director Snowman Mr. N. Balakrishna, CFO Snowman.
We will now directly begin the question and answer session.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star L1 on the Touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Participants should avoid Bluetooth, earphones or speakerphone. Ladies and gentlemen, please limit your questions to three per participants. First question is from the line of Costo Bhubna from BMSPL Capital. Please go ahead.
Kaustav Bubna
Hi. Thank you for taking my question. Can you hear me?
Operator
Yes. Please go ahead.
Kaustav Bubna
Excellent. Yeah. So the company has been talking about the benefit from. DFC for many years now. But obviously the financial benefit is yet to be seen for the company from the dfc. So has the Western DFC become operational in parts and is the Western DFC already contributing to the financials of Gateway District parks? When will the Western DFC become fully operational and what type of TEUs can the company expect in the next three years due to the DFC opportunity?
Unidentified Speaker
Hi. So the DSC started in different sections starting from 2020. So we have seen the benefits of it over the years with faster turnaround time, increased, double stacking, lesser imbalance. So we have you know consistently improved by EBITDA per view and running through the DFC coming in it’s there till Mundra Kipava for us. But JNPT the final only come by possibly end of this year December 2025 is what it could probably take another few months after that. Also
Kaustav Bubna
Could you. So could you speak a little bit about when the whole when the full Western line is operational, Exactly how Gateway is just how this will, you know, over time, over time how this will improve our volumes in the container, container railway business.
Unidentified Speaker
So we have a Pan India license. So JNPT getting connected will help us significantly compared to all the other players. There are others with Pan India license also. And then the NPT getting double packed will allow us to convert some cargo that’s currently going by road to rail and at better margins compared to right now from single stack to double stack when it’ll be there. So those are primarily the benefits of the DFT. Even faster turnaround time right now to the NTT it’ll take 72 hours but for DFT it should take about 30 hours and that will also help us.
Kaustav Bubna
Understood. And just one more, one last question if you may. So how did our capacity in the rail division increase for Gateway Distribus was the merger with Gateway Rail Freight Private Limited and the and the other company, the East India Company, did it increase our capacities in the rail division for the listed entity which was compared to what it was pre merger.
Unidentified Speaker
Basically the CFS business was separate and the rail business was separate. So it just became one entity. It gave us stronger balance sheet and common management but in terms of specifically increasing grain capacity, the merger did not have any impact.
Kaustav Bubna
Okay, great. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder. To the participants to ask a question, you may press Star and one next question is from the line of Prashant Kali from Star Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello sir. Congratulations on your good results. I have one question. The eastern dedicated freight corridor has been commissioned already but we don’t have any operations on that plate. Condor, is there any reason why we are not interested in that corridor? And another question is, do we have any plan to establish any facility on that corridor?
Unidentified Speaker
No immediate plan right now for the ebbsc. One big advantage of WDSC is that it’s double stacked and more of the locations that we service, all the cargo comes to the western port. But that being said, over time when we keep on expanding and looking at new locations, we’re not against expanding on that side. So you might see one or two terminals come within that region as well. But we are more focused on the exit trade rather than domestic. And Eastern is used a lot more for domestic and bulk as well.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so the eastern dedicated freight corridor don’t have much opportunities for exim. Right?
Unidentified Speaker
It does for some locations, but not the ones that we operate out of.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And sir, the Snowman acquisition and making it a subsidiary has resulted into extra exceptional item which has impacted our eps. But it’s a subsidiary. How did we account it as a income on the income statement as a exceptional item because that has skewed the consolidated result too much. But in practice there is no income.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, so this was basically we were an associate company and now after crossing 50% it comes under a subsidy. So we’re just following the accounting standard guidelines that are there. It’s a notional gain, it’s not a cash item, it’s not a taxable item. But according to accounting standards there is a gain of 390 crores basis the fair value of the equity that’s come in. But we’ve given a separate line item to it specifying the amount. So if you remove that then you can see what our operational EBITDA and operational profit is.
Unidentified Participant
But we don’t have to pay any tax on that income, right?
Unidentified Speaker
No, it’s just like a balance sheet item, like a one line entry.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. Okay. So it’s appearing in the balance sheet and to balance it we need to cover it as a income to balance the asset side.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. In the accounting standard guideline.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, okay. Understood. Now because you didn’t publish the balance sheet that way. That’s why I had a question that where is this adjustment coming from? So it’s just for adjusting on the balance sheet. Okay, thank you very much sir.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anirudh A. Damani from Artha India Ventures. Please, please go ahead.
Anirudh A. Damani
Yeah, hi. So I had a question about how are you planning to address the challenges that led to this net loss in the Snowman logistics results compared to a profit in the same quarter last year. There’s also been a sequential degrowth in revenues.
Unidentified Speaker
So we are working closely towards creating that bottom line, working towards cutting down on our costs rapidly and a lot of work has been done in last couple of months in the same aspect also as this is the time when the contracts are under renewal, we are trying to correct the revenues also so that our subsequent quarters look much better.
Anirudh A. Damani
I had a follow on question to that. You also mentioned that the Amazon contract has moved from dedicated warehousing. Is it a complete termination of the contract or what has changed with the Amazon relationship?
Unidentified Speaker
How are you doing?
Anirudh A. Damani
I’m good, how are you?
Unidentified Speaker
So with Amazon, after Quick Commerce came in and was the arm of Amazon, which is Amazon Fresh and Amazon Pantry business. So they have changed their model to compete with Quick Quick Commerce and they are going directly from the suppliers to the dark stores. So they don’t require these dedicated fulfillment centers anymore. But we foresaw that, you know, this might not be a long term thing. So it was a back to back lease when we started. We ended our leases and we recuperated any capex that we had done as part of the deal with Amazon.
So now on the growth part we are focusing on Snow distributes. Apart from the three customers which we had publicly announced, we do have a couple more now but unfortunately we can’t reveal their names due to confidentiality clauses. And there are a couple of large clients who we are working with to gross noticeably. And as Padu mentioned, the focus is always on the bottom line and we have had some costs in this quarter. That’s why we shared it compared to last quarter last year, same quarter and those increases in labor and increases in electricity which we don’t foresee that every quarter such a large impact would be there.
Anirudh A. Damani
I see. I’m happy to take. Another. Ask another question if there’s anybody else in line after them.
Unidentified Speaker
Sure. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Achal Lohardi from Nuama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Achal Lohade
Yeah. Good afternoon sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. So first question, if you could highlight, you know, in terms of the market share movement for our market.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. Hi Rajkur. This slide. So I will start with Delhi NTR market share. So we have been able to maintain our market share to 17% compared to last quarter also we were 17 and. But at Sanewal we have been able to ramp up our market share from 24% which was last quarter to 26.5 closer to 27%. And in Uttara Fund there has been a sharp increase in market share. So from 23% last quarter, now it is 30%.
Achal Lohade
And when you say last quarter you mean two QFI 25 or three QFY 24 sir,
Unidentified Speaker
You do 24, 25.
Achal Lohade
Okay. So it’s a quarter over quarter. There is an improvement.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes.
Achal Lohade
Understood. And you know if you could guide us in terms of the, you know the market share in 3Q24 same quarter last year.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. So in Q3 last year the market share Delhi NCR was 16% and at Ludhiana it was 21% and in Uttarakhand it was 27%.
Achal Lohade
So essentially we have improved market share on WiFi as well as QOQ basis.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes, correct.
Achal Lohade
And what has driven this? Because you know, if you could also help us with the EBITDA margins as well for the CFS and rail.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes. So real is 9600 and CFS is about below 1300. So there has been some different discounts but at the same time some increase in discount but at the same time our double stacking has improved and so it’s kind of offset each other. That’s why EBITDA per view is consistent with H1. And also there’s been a shift with throughput. We’ve done lesser empties also. So it might not show in the overall volume growth. It’s only about 2%. But our laden percentage has gone up more than our laden plus empty percentage.
Achal Lohade
Would you be able to share what is the cargo growth in laden containers?
Unidentified Speaker
We don’t give the exact split on that but there is a few.
Achal Lohade
Is it in double digit.
Unidentified Speaker
Double digit compared to
Achal Lohade
Why the growth is in double digit for the laden cargo. So is it the MPs mix which is changing the realization and the margin profile? That’s the question I had.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, no, not in double digit.
Achal Lohade
Okay, understood. If you could also highlight, you know, how much of the JNPT cargo currently is moved by road, what volume it would be annually.
Unidentified Speaker
It’s hard for us to say because we’re not there with all the markets where JNPT caters to. But for us our overall volume is only about 5% from JNPT.
Achal Lohade
Right. No, but I mean given these three markets put together, how much volume you think is going to going by road to JMPT
Unidentified Speaker
For the icd? You know the locations that we have, especially in the north, we’d say about 70, 80% is on rail, balance is on road but it’s improving by a few percentage every year.
Achal Lohade
Okay, and can you help us understand in terms of the market scenario, you know, what is the outlook in terms of the market? And by the way if you could also talk about these three markets, what has been the volume growth in these markets at the aggregate level?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, I’ll just take the first one and last group in this specific broadly I mean we want this consistent trend to go. We’ve got the 100 crore EBITDA also again so we’re happy with that considering the global scenarios. But there could be some changes like especially in the Red Sea situation if shipping lines start using this route again then we could see a boost in volumes compared to what we factored in. So we’re still not giving a number for what we expect next quarter or the following year. We’ll probably wait another quarter and then see and give our guidance for future. And then Tajbur was just telling about the specific market growth. We will.
Unidentified Speaker
So yeah so if we talk about NCR so there has been a growth of around 6 to 7% but if you talk about other markets like Uttarakhand, Kashipur, there is a slight degrowth overall because of waste paper holdings at Sanival we’ve been able to retain our market share and over the period of time we increase. So what we can look at is because of the geopolitical scenario like Samvit mentioned, so there a shortage of empty container inventory also which also led to lower moment of empty containers going forward. We are just waiting and watching and how the situation will pan out. But we can see that from January number Numbers are slightly better than if we look at November December numbers. But it is very soon to give you complete clarity that how the things will pan out.
Unidentified Speaker
Just to clarify the numbers, our terminal wise increase. But if you look at overall market NCR Q3 versus Q3 is 2% growth. Ludhiana is down 20% and Uttarakhand is down 30%.
Achal Lohade
Ludhiana is down 20% YY and Uttarakhand 30% is that have I understood right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, 32%. The overall market has gone down. But still for us, I mean we’ve managed to increase our market share in that falling market.
Achal Lohade
Right. Just a quick question on this. You know if we look at the port volume year to date, nine months, you know they are up about 9% 10% yoy. But if you just sum up the leading terminals, we see that there is hardly any change. Can you explain is there a reversal of the market share for real? Is it? There is an element of calculation changes like the transhipment gone up a lot and which is influencing the port numbers, etc.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes. So transshipment and empties get counted there along with coastal shipping. Also it’s not really a comparable thing. So we only look at where our ICD are present and what the market there is. We’re also not servicing a good chunk of the country by rail.
Achal Lohade
Understood. I have more questions but I’ll come back in Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please proceed.
Amit Dixit
Yeah. Hi, good evening everyone and thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions from my side. The first one is on the growth plans that we have particularly with respect to new ICDs. Now as I understand Jaipur is still not crystallized. So over next at least two years, what are the kind of options we are considering at this point in time?
Unidentified Speaker
We are actively looking at two, three options. So hopefully we can announce something by next quarter. Jaipur is still going to take time as we reported in the past. We’ll wait for the land issue to clear up. But there’s definitely plans to expand on the real linked it side with 2 or 3 is coming in the next couple of years.
Amit Dixit
Is it possible to just highlight the regions or you will do it at the later date as and when things come?
Unidentified Speaker
No, we’d only announced that after we bought our land.
Amit Dixit
And what exactly is ailing Jaipur? Has it moved ahead compared to last time or the situation is just stuck there?
Unidentified Speaker
We reported in our accounts it’s a legal process. There’s a date of hearing that keeps happening. So nothing significant to report in the process.
Amit Dixit
Okay. The second one is on double stacking. Is it possible to quantify the double stacking in this quarter and how does it compare with the last quarter?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s 40% versus 38% last quarter.
Amit Dixit
Okay, that’s great. Thank you so much and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Krupa Shankar NJ from Avendus Park. Please go ahead.
Krupashankar NJ
Yeah, good evening and thank you for the opportunity. A couple of questions. First up on specific end markets, you did say that the NCR has grown at about 2% while the other two markets are quite weak. But on the other hand you are seeing that exports as a whole is picking up in the fourth quarter. So can you throw some light around? What are the key areas which is working out and what are the key commodities where there has been a substantial weakness?
Unidentified Speaker
So like I said, the NCR market growth was 2% wherein our terminals in NCR grew by 6 to 7%. So here we have seen still stability. But there’s a degrowth which has happened in Ludhiana and Uttarakhand is primarily due to two factors. Ludhiana, the complete market is heavily dependent on scrap. So that is one of the major reason that the overall market went down because of the low volumes of scrap and the volumes have not formed up as of now. And the other market which is Uttarakhand, it is heavily dependent on waste paper. So there also the overall market is down because of the low volumes of waste paper. So these two commodities led to de growth and the overmark overall market in both Ludhiana and Uttarakhand.
Krupashankar NJ
Okay, I got it. In the NCR market specifically just wanted to get a sense you have seen some growth of rice exports picking up again and any trends you have seen in the visible in the month of January which you can highlight in the call please,
Unidentified Speaker
It’s a similar trend going on December to January. So nothing significant to report as such.
Krupashankar NJ
Okay, understood. On the CFS business again, just trying to figure out. We are still in process of executing the sale of the CFS businesses. Understanding is correct. May any change update over there,
Unidentified Speaker
Evaluating options. Just so like we had said in the last call that we’ll probably take. We won’t have any news to give in this financial year. So possibly after the close of financial year and the next investor call we can give some better update on it.
Krupashankar NJ
Got it. All right, thank you. That’s it for myself.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vishal Durjee from Robo Capital. Please go ahead.
Vishal Darji
Hello sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on the Snowman logistics part. On the EBITDA margin front. Our margins have depth as compared to last year. So they are around 16% currently. So going forward, what type of margins are we expecting? Like said that we are moving to an asset light model and the increased share of distribution business might affect the margins. So what type of trend are we expecting?
Unidentified Speaker
See as our overall business dynamics and the mix has changed in last few quarters. The EBITDA margins though will remain close to what we were around. 18 to 20% is what we expected to say. But overall absolute number EBITDA is going to grow with our expansion in snow distribute.
Vishal Darji
Okay. So sustainable. We can take it as 18 to 20%, right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yes. Yeah. The reason for that is we are increasing distribution difference which is low margin but high revenue. And absolute EBITDA will grow. And it supports warehousing and transportation business by increasing stickiness. And those same customers end up using our warehouses and transportation. We don’t do distribution business which doesn’t touch our warehouses or our transportation.
Vishal Darji
Okay, got it. And as you’re expanding your pallet capacity what kind of revenue growth are you expecting? Any guidance you would like to give?
Unidentified Speaker
We are targeting say by end of FY26. Anywhere between 800 to 900 crores of revenue.
Vishal Darji
Okay. Okay. Great. Thank you. Okay, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Gaurav Gandhi from Glory Tail Capital Management. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir. What are the updates on the red fee issue? Has it resolved or any update regarding that? Any signs of Traffic shifting back there?
Unidentified Speaker
No, as of now the rectory issue remains the same because even though there’s a CSI announced that it will take time before everything settles down and all the shipping lines are still using the route which is through the Cape of Good Road rather than the Suez Canal. At the same time, freight rates have gone up significantly both because of Brexit and generally the container flows and trade routes which are being used by the shipping lines right now. And the capacity is well utilized. So the situation remains the same, the target times remain the same and for our end customers the freight rates are going up even now.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, as and when it will resolve how much volume growth you’re expecting?
Unidentified Speaker
There is no direct relationship which we can identify between when the situation gets resolved and linking it directly to volume. It will be very difficult to say. But generally speaking, whenever the trades go down, container availability goes up, then we expect the export out of India to become more competitive.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aniket Kulkarni from VMSPL Capital. Please go ahead.
Aniket Kulkarni
Yeah, thank you for taking my question. So I wanted to ask why are we more exempt focused versus domestic focused in rail business and how will the completion of the DFC on the western side help us if we are more exim focused? Given that you said the eastern DFC catered more on the domestic side. So what are your thoughts on that?
Unidentified Speaker
We tried domestic in the past, but for domestic you need a more wider network of terminals. We only have five railing terminals domestic, most routes are single stack and there’s imbalance in, well and it’s slower turnaround time. So we’ve chosen to focus on EX IM as a strategy at least for the last 10 years has been pretty much 95% plus on EXIM side. We’re not against running mixed trains. Once we have a more wider network, say if we have 10 locations, it’s easier to triangulate trains and you know, have a better domestic presence. So for that we need to, you know, like we said, we have plans for three more terminals and even more after that. So we’ll wait for that. And eventually the plan is to get into domestic as well.
Aniket Kulkarni
Yeah. And on the western DSC completion. So how will it help us more in the examination? Operations as compared to the domestic ones. Because you said in earlier that the eastern DFC was more domestic focused. Right. So what is the difference between the eastern and the western DFC and how will it help us more on the exim side?
Unidentified Speaker
So Western DFC connects to Mundra GNPT which is where we carry all our cargo Kandla also we’ve recently announced that service Eastern DFC we’re not connecting to any ports so if we have to use that, that might be on domestic type but we don’t have any specific plans for it right now. The Western DSC basically all the imports and exports going to these three, four ports will help us increase our volume.
Aniket Kulkarni
Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jennam Shah from Equidus Securities. Please go ahead.
Jainam Shah
Yeah, hi, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is related to the equation of Snowman so of course it is. Are you going to have any more increase in the stake in the company or we are okay with this 50% like any more cash flow to be deployed in this moment from the gate.
Unidentified Speaker
So our plan was to do 50% and we could acquire 5% under creeping acquisitions this year which we’ve pretty much exhausted. So no immediate plans to increase our stakes further. But we’ll have it have a look whenever we have free cash flows and you know we have to decide our overall strategy. This is the first target.
Jainam Shah
Good. Got it sir. And on the gateway distributors only. So as we are following the company since last two, three years and we have been hearing that we will be adding up new ICD in the let’s say northern or central region which will category the DFC but no significant movement has done on that part and no significant investment has been done and even Jaipur is kind of holded as of now and if we see from a cash flow perspective we are not doing any major capex in terms of investment in ICT.
Aand if you see the existing market or it is degring and of course DSC has been operational for major majority of our cargo which is like 95% towards and this then what kind of stopping us to go aggressive in terms of addition of any terminal in any of the region to have the better volumes going forward or to eventually use the capital metal or capital better.
Unidentified Speaker
So ever since we have announced it we have evaluated dozens of opportunities some of them downfield but mostly greenfield. And the challenge that we are facing is that we are not able to land acquisition in the correct shape and in the correct location which meets all our criteria. As we want it. We would rather wait and. Do the terminal in a good location such as our facility. And for that it’s taking time. Even as we speak right now there are three or four proposals where we are at the finalization stage. So as if we find any problems in the land, it’s a big challenge in India. Then we drop that proposal. And if the due diligence and everything goes well, then we’ll be going ahead to follow on this.
Jainam Shah
Are we like. Of course there has been a good issue master plan which has been there. So any of the terminal which has came into it and if it is coming, are we participating in that?
Unidentified Speaker
Sorry, are you asking it any terminal coming up of acquisition?
Jainam Shah
No. No. So I’m asking that there has been a variety of the master plan in which there would be a few terminals which would be added by let’s say government of India or something. So are we planning to be part of that? Because they are wanted to have a party participation increase in this particular segment of ICD and deliveries.
Unidentified Speaker
Right. Whenever these proposals come, we definitely take a look. But it doesn’t fit with our business model. Usually because all of them are built on government land. And after certain number of years, usually in that, in this model the facility you have to hand over back to the public public sector. And also it’s a common user facility. If you build on whether Gati Shakti or GFC land. And in our business model we believe that we want to run our trains exclusively to our terminals. And we are not in it only for the terminal business. We want to do the rail piece as well. We don’t want to do a terminal where others are running on the rail.
Jainam Shah
Got it. Got it. And just one last thing. By any chance are we seeing that the competitive intensity which might be increasing might be leading to a lower return ratios from the newer terminal size against what we would have anticipated and which is eventually leading to a delay in the acquisition of the terminal. Pretty just those land issues and all or any other thing that you and I.
Unidentified Speaker
The voice is very popular.
Operator
Mr. Shah, may you please request you to use your handset if you are on speaker.
Jainam Shah
Yeah, I’m using handset only. Just giving. So I’m saying that by any chance if any of the. Let’s say there will be some already a kind of ICD in a particular region and we will be acquiring some land nearby. And then eventually because of the competitive intensity our financials might not be working in terms of the return ratios. Eventually because of that, are we following any of the opportunity to have to add any terminal or it is just the land aggregation or any land acquisition problem that we are facing for the newer terminals.
Unidentified Speaker
No, it is primarily the land aggregation. We have enough funds available both in. Treasury and the ability to raise. But that has not been the bottleneck. The land aggregation has been the bottleneck for us.
Jainam Shah
That’s it for my sir and thank you so much for all the answers.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anirudh E. Damani from Artha India Ventures. Please go ahead.
Anirudh A. Damani
Thank you so much. So I had a couple of questions about the capital outlay. So looks like Kolkata. We’re going to start with 5,900 odd pallets in this quarter. The total outlay for this project was for 9,000 pallets. Any indication on when that would be completed? And also what is the total size of capacity we’re building at Krishnapatnam?
Unidentified Speaker
So in Calcutta we are completing the first phase of the warehousing. After that we have another year and a half when we will reinvest into phase two in Calcutta and that will cover up the entire outlay as we have projected. The land and everything else is already there. It is just that we are creating phase one and then we will go to phase two. In terms of Krishnapatnam, we are adding additional. I mean additionally we are adding 5,500 pallets which will be also getting up and ready by this year end. Financial year end.
Anirudh A. Damani
So just to clarify, the total capacity at Krishna Patum would be about 11,200 pallets. And Calcutta would be 9,000.
Unidentified Speaker
Yes, approximately. And Calcutta will be 9,000 plus we already have another warehouse which will add up and create a total of 15,000.
Anirudh A. Damani
Oh, 15,000 and then Calcutta. Is that under the model where we acquire the land and we own everything or is this the BTS model that we’re doing?
Unidentified Speaker
It is we have acquired the land and we own everything there.
Anirudh A. Damani
And just one last question. How are we financing this total capital investment of around 1,150crores over the next 12 months.
Unidentified Speaker
It’s primarily debt funded, but also some equity portion of about 20, 25%.
Anirudh A. Damani
Sorry, you said equity. You would be raising equity internal. Okay, got it. Thank you so much.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Condenya Nimagara from Jeffries. Please go ahead.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Yeah. Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So my first question is, you know, how has Jan been? I mean this quarter, how is the trend like with respect to your volume growth or the momentum on ground? Either on the ICDS or on the port side, if you can throw some color. On that place, if you are seeing any pickup.
Unidentified Speaker
Very similar trend going on, more of the same as Q3.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Okay. Do you think the volumes may have bottomed out at this current level? Do you think this is a trough or do you still see a potential decline from here as well?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s hard to say on the overall macro volumes, but we have a healthy pipeline in place for our terminals where we see our market share going up going forward.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Understood, sir. And my second question is on the margin front. So how do you see that trend from here on? Because I think on a QQ based on in your rail business there is a marginal decline on per TU basis. So I mean, what has driven this decline? If you can throw some color, please.
Unidentified Speaker
It’s more or less the same. If you look at H1US 9600, we’re still at 9600. So every quarter can’t be the same. It depends on the volume mix, little bit up and down, number of 20s, 40s, overall, empty running, under, frame running. So there are many factors. But we’ve always given this guidance that will be roughly in this range and we expect that to continue going forward as well.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Understood, sir. So my last question is on the CFS divestment part. Any color, any thought process. I mean, where are we on that?
Unidentified Speaker
We mentioned earlier on the call also we’ll probably be able to give a better update maybe next quarter. So like three, four months down, maybe we can report something.
Koundinya Nimmagadda
Sure, sir. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Riya Mehta from Equitance. Please go ahead.
CA Riya Mehta
Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. My first question is in regards to that you said that the markets of Lithuania have been seeing a decline mainly for scrap and waste paper. So apart from these commodities, what other market revival do we see for these markets to grow?
Unidentified Speaker
So basically if we look at both these buckets, so I’ll just give you a percentage. Like 20% of the scrap volumes are there in the market of Ludhiana. So no matter other commodities, whatever percentage, they do well. But they won’t be able to match up unless and until there is an improvement in scrap volumes. And similarly it has a huge percentage if you look at the waste paper market in Uttarakhand. So they don’t have those kind of volume, voluminous commodities aren’t there which can substitute those volumes. So we have to wait for their growth. To happen till the volumes are stabilized and again there is a market growth.
CA Riya Mehta
Got it. And what will be the possible reason for NCR growing just at 2%.
Unidentified Speaker
So if we look at NCR it could have been growing further but because of the empty inventory shortage, because you know this, because of the crisis there have been erratic arrivals at the port side and overall the shipping lines have to supply empties to other locations also and they were not able to supply to that extent for the hinterland. So that has also let down not only the movement of empties but also the export latent boxes.
Unidentified Speaker
MCR also has scrap and trading goods which overall right now is very seductive.
CA Riya Mehta
This scrap steel, right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yes.
CA Riya Mehta
Got it. And when you say that FY27 we are seeing growth of around 800 to 900 crores. Where do we see this growth coming from?
Unidentified Speaker
This is a price of Snowman that was not from Gatekeeper. That’s the revenue that we bought the snowman region by end of FY27.
CA Riya Mehta
Yeah, for that only I’m asking
Unidentified Speaker
That’s mainly from Snow distribute which is a five year business and taking into account the couple of facilities at least that we’ll be adding every year if not more.
CA Riya Mehta
And where do you see growth coming for Gateway district considering these markets continue to have a sluggish outlook for a couple of quarters at least.
Unidentified Speaker
So we’re consistently growing our market share. Sarita Bath becoming double stacked will give us a boost in that region. We’ve already seen some improvement in volumes there and we’ll continue to geographically expand also into new locations which will add further into this.
CA Riya Mehta
While we see our double stacking has increased by 2% from 38 to 40% our margins have not seen that kind of improvement. So could you quantify how much a percentage of double stacking increase would lead to how much savings in cost?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s kind of hard to do that because again double stacking depends on the weight, the root, the imbalance. So it’s not a clear cut formula that for every percent of double stacking we get this much crore saving. Also we don’t share exact double stacking saving in the B terms
CA Riya Mehta
But directionally if we have increased that our stacking, our margin should have improved. So what possible reason that it has not improved directionally?
Unidentified Speaker
Yes, as I just mentioned, the port split, the volume split, weight slab split. So those factors make a difference. Also some discount Has increased in certain markets which we were mentioning. But overall our plan is to keep the entire volumes going, our market share going which will help distribute our fixed costs over a larger base of volume and run the asset as fast as we can.
CA Riya Mehta
And you were talking about various cost initiative and Gateway. So what all cost initiative are we planning to take?
Unidentified Speaker
I think again that was a snowman commentary that was given Param. Can you elaborate on it?
Unidentified Speaker
That was on snowman wherein we are trying to work out on warehouse level, unit level, labor cost and overall efficiencies of chambers. Those are what we have taken internally.
CA Riya Mehta
Got it. And for Gateway are we seeing any improvement or going back to 10,000 level of EBITDA per turn for rail?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah, hopefully when JNPT is connected to DFC then we should be seeing 10,000 plus. Also we would always say three factors. One is Faridabad being double stacked. One is Jaipur coming in. One is JNPT being double double stacked. So one out of those three is done. Jaipur has been delayed. Maybe when one more terminal comes in that will help us push in this direction.
CA Riya Mehta
So how much is Jaipur delayed by?
Unidentified Speaker
We don’t know when it’ll come in. We’re basically waiting for the legal proceedings to get over.
CA Riya Mehta
And it’s the. This is started since how long
Unidentified Speaker
This about a little over a year now.
CA Riya Mehta
So once you get the regulatory approval you would be able to get it, right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yes.
CA Riya Mehta
And this is stuck with which board?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s Delhi Adjudicating authority.
CA Riya Mehta
Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vikram Villas Suryavanshi from Philip Capital India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Yeah. Good evening sir. Sorry, in case question is repeated because there was some disturbance in my line. What was the imbalance here in this quarter?
Unidentified Speaker
5545 in favor of import.
Vikram Suryavanshi
55. 45. And can you repeat what was EBITDA per to you in rail and CFS?
Unidentified Speaker
9600 and state 1250 or 1212 7
Vikram Suryavanshi
9,600 and CFS was
Unidentified Speaker
1270.
Vikram Suryavanshi
1270. Got it. Yeah. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotakshika Securities. Please go ahead.
Aditya Mongia
Thank you for the opportunity. And the first question that I had was linked up to this issue of discounts and maybe cuts in pricing. Could you give us a color of where have these discounts been more focused on within the market that you operate? Maybe a general color across the three markets. How has pricing kind of moved on a y wide basis?
Unidentified Speaker
Sorry, I didn’t get the second part but basically this is Ludhiana belt which has seen the highest level of discount and what we’re doing is kind of focused on 40 wheel volume so that we can at least double start the cargo and still make a good margin on it.
Aditya Mongia
Are the other markets static in terms of pricing or have there been some pain over there also in let’s say Delhi markets?
Unidentified Speaker
There has been, but not as much as Ludhiana.
Aditya Mongia
Understood. The second question that I had was more to do with the competitors move of setting up a terminal in jmpt. Now I understand that the volumes coming from that perspective for you are limited. But does this lead to kind of limiting your gains from DFE once GMPT gets connected because someone already is setting up a terminal? Does that alter the way you think through JSBT over time?
Unidentified Speaker
No, it depends on where your origin and destination is. So for example in ncr, like if we have a Gadi terminal, like we cater to the Gurgaona, this kind of market, so ultimately it’s the catchment area we have to focus on. Being near the port doesn’t have any significant advantage from the ICD side.
Aditya Mongia
Okay, the next question that I had was that I think both of your peers are talking about total logistics solutions, both Adani ports or logistics the way you want to think through it or Concord. Now do we see through this becoming a trend and do we need to be investing in this line of work or do you think that just doing the end to end rail transportation would work fine as a business model over time?
Unidentified Speaker
So we’ve been doing say inland end to end. We’ve been providing railroad and ICT under one entity since the beginning of operations. There were some people who only were rail operators, some were only terminal operators. So we’ve had such philosophy. But we’re not venturing into the port side or you know, into the forwarding side, anything like that. But the domestic side is there and then with Snowman also domestic distribution even on the dry side is happening. So we’re more into that aspect of end to end.
Aditya Mongia
Understood. Maybe just a final question over here. I think you kind of talked about it, but is there any reverse Sort of trend happening in favor of road because of maybe better connectivity that is starting to hurt rail operators. Are there any instances of customers shifting away from rain that you can think?
Unidentified Speaker
We haven’t really seen anything on that front.
Aditya Mongia
Got that? Those are my questions. Thank God. And all the very best for you. Thank you.
Unidentified Speaker
Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prashant Kale from Star Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, my question is about further increasing stake in Snowman Logistics. Do we have any plan to acquire the Snowman Logistics and delist it in the future?
Unidentified Speaker
It didn’t understand the question.
Unidentified Participant
So now we are holding 51% more than 50% of the snowman Logistics. So do we have any plan to further increase the stake in Snowman Logistics and delist the company in future?
Unidentified Speaker
No, we aren’t thinking along those lines. So no immediate plans to increase our stake. Our first target was to drop 50% by March which we’ve done now. So we’ll evaluate after some time.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so there is no plan to increase it further.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah. Okay, thanks. That answers my question. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuama Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Achal Lohade
Yeah. Thank you for the follow up opportunity. Sir, if you could help us understand what has been the OCF for nine months? Cash flow from operations and what is the capex number?
Unidentified Speaker
The nine months the capex has been 20 crores and what was your other question again?
Achal Lohade
Sorry, I’m not able to hear you sir clearly Are you talking about Snowman or are you talking about Gateway district box?
Unidentified Speaker
The capex figure is 20k for nine months the OCF we don’t have it handy right now. We’ll just check and get back to you within the next few minutes.
Achal Lohade
Understood. And what is the capex we should work with you know for current year and next year in the real business real plus CFS to any which way I don’t think we’ll talk about Capex but for the real piece
Unidentified Speaker
I can Images repeated please.
Achal Lohade
Hello.
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah we lost the voice for a second. Can you just repeat your.
Achal Lohade
Rail business. What is the capex we should build in for FY25 and 26
Unidentified Speaker
That we’re talking about? You know, it’s the same figures. You’re saying maybe about 250 crores, 250 to 300 crores total. When these are developed. Jaipur also when it comes in, that’ll be another 50, 60 crores. Other than that, there’ll be probably capex of about 30 crores next year. 30 to 40 crores for the next two years. This is on warehouse capacity and equipment replacement.
Achal Lohade
So you, you mean basically 30 crores kind of maintenance capex plus greenfield, 250 to 300 crores for three terminals plus 50 to 60 crore. If, if and when Jaipur resolves. Have I understood? Right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah,
Achal Lohade
Got it. And if you could just give us the mix in terms of ncr, Ludhiana and Uttarakhand. NCR Punjab and Uttarakhand mix for us,
Unidentified Speaker
We aren’t sharing terminal wise. Actually terminal wise numbers we aren’t getting into.
Achal Lohade
Understood. And just one more question. In terms of the pricing scenario, are you seeing any element of change in terms of pricing scenario in all three markets? Ncr, Punjab and Uttarakhand.
Unidentified Speaker
Like we mentioned, Ludhiana is going through discounting. Even the other places there is discounting, but not to that extent. So no pricing improvement anywhere. But most of us say 80% or more of our business is stable pricing and the operating cash flow which is specifically 250 crores for nine months.
Achal Lohade
250 crore OCA for nine months. Right?
Unidentified Speaker
Yeah.
Achal Lohade
Wonderful. Sorry, if you could just point out what has been the extent of discounting in Ludhiana market?
Unidentified Speaker
It’s commodity specific, weight specific, volume specific.
Achal Lohade
So would that be like 10, 12%? Would that be like 4, 5%? Any range.
Unidentified Speaker
Ranging from 5 to 15%.
Achal Lohade
Understood? Understood. All right. So thank you. Wish you all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. Participants that have missed out due to time constraint can reach out to the management and SGA for Gateway District Parks and Snowman Logistics for any further information. With that we conclude this conference. Thank you all for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.