Finolex Industries Ltd (NSE: FINPIPE) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 26, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Saurabh Dhanorkar — Managing Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Presentation:
operator
Going to the conference. The conference is now being recorded live.
operator
And FY25 results conference call of Finolex Industries Hosted by ICICI Securities Ltd. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Arun Bed from ICICI Securities. Thank you and over to you Mr.
operator
Arun Be
Unidentified Participant
thanks Sagar. On behalf of ICI Securities I welcome you all to the Q4FY25 result con call of Physics Industries. From the management side we have Mr. Saurabh Dhanorkar, Managing Director and Mr. Chandra Marma, CFO. Now I hand the call over to Mr. Dhanurkar for the opening remarks.
Unidentified Participant
What have you missed?
Saurabh Dhanorkar — Managing Director
Thanks Arun. Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the investors conference call for Q4FY25 and FY25 earning release. We thank you all for your continued support and interest in Finulex Industries Ltd. All these years FIOL has registered modest growth in pipes and fittings volume in spite of weak demand scenario during the quarter and the year. The operating performance of the company is muted mainly due to weaker realization on account of volatility in PVC resin prices. The company’s endeavor to grow in the non agri segment in pipes and fittings is ongoing. Let me now take you through some of the performance highlights.
For Q4FY25, the volume in Pipes and Fittings segment increased by 2% to 1 2,253 metric tons against 1 171,000 metric tons in Q4.24. In spite of the weak demand scenario, total income from operations was 1172 crores against 1235 crores in F4FY24. EBITDA stood at 171 crore against 209 crores for corresponding quarter. Although EBIT in the segment decreased to Rs.108 crore compared to 133 crores in the corresponding quarter. We have registered significant increase in EBIT per kg trend from the earlier quarter. EBIT per kg was about Rs. 4 per kg in Q3FY25 which has now increased to Rupees 10.50 per kg in Q4FY25 PAT stood at 150 crores against 161 crores in Q4.24.
Highlights for the financial year 25 are as this volume in Pipe cell fitting segment was up by about 4% to 3 47,982 metric tons against 3 36,577 metric tonnes in the previous year. This is in spite of the big demand scenario. Total income for operations was 4142 crores against 4317 crores in FY24. Volume in the PVC resin segment grew by about 13% to 2 22,708 metric tons. EBITDA for the company stood at 476 crores against Rupees 584 crores for the earlier year. Profit after tax has increased to rupees 778 crores including exceptional gains for the year FY25 compared to Rs.
455 crores in FY24. The company continues to have a strong balance sheet with a net cash surplus of around 2,535 crores as on 31st March 25th compared to 1820 crores in the corresponding previous year. We would now like to leave the floor open for questions. Chandan Varma, our CFO is with me to take some of the questions and I am here. Please go ahead. Thank you so much.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star then one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star then. Two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Shravan Shah from Daulat Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, thank you and congratulations on particularly on the EBITDA margin recovery. Qq.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks.
Unidentified Participant
A couple of questions.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, sir, couple of questions. First wanted to understand in terms of the volume guidance for FY26 and also if possible if you can share the. How do you see the industry volume growth for FY26 and if possible for CPVC, what was our volume growth in Q4 and FY25 and volumes.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Right. So basically as a policy we don’t give exact projections for the year. But overall this year considering all the uncertainties, the previous resin prices going up and down, in fact from a big dip now they have started recovering but the uncertainty still remains. Uncertainty about government policies remains. So it’s very difficult to say the oil prices, a lot of uncertainties overall in the scenario. But despite this I can say that our internal targets which we have kept for our team are definitely a double digit growth. I would not like to give that as a guidance because as I said as a policy we don’t give guidance.
We don’t see a spectacular year ahead in terms of volume growth but we would be focusing this year mainly on recovery of margins which had dipped. We are doing a lot of cost cutting initiatives and I would say cost the margin improvement initiatives whether it goes in terms of better pricing policies, better volume, better product mix. So our focus would be on recovery of margins. As far as the overall scenario goes there we definitely see growth. But I would avoid giving any specific percentage
Unidentified Participant
on cpvc. Chandan, can you say what was the exact.
Unidentified Participant
So on year on year CPVC volume has grown by 17% and quite quarter on quarter it was roughly around 7%.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
And we see in CPVC definitely a double digit growth going ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, can we still see our cpvc said around 67% or it is still 5%.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Still around 5%.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Unidentified Participant
And now sir, as you said in terms of the margin or what we are trying about all the cost structures or cost reduction or better thing, better product mix. So how one can look at margin. So this quarter EBITDA level 14.6% EBITDA margin. So how one can look at the normalized minimum should be a 14% plus for full year. Given the CPVC prices have also I think two and a half rupees has increased in last ten odd days. So in that scenario and plus the ADD and BIS whenever it will come. So if you can also help if any any timeline as per you add.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
BIS remain a question mark. We are confident that both of them will come. Only thing unfortunately from the government side there has been a considerable delay. Now the court also has told the government to speed up the process that will add but without. What I am saying is we are not depending on government initiatives to drive our profitability Independent of ADD BIS we are confident of improving the margins. I would not again like to place a number on that. But margin definitely we see a margin improvement and as you have seen, the prices have gone up.
But while the prices of PVC resin when they went down in the last quarter we managed to recover the margins because we didn’t reduce our pipe prices in line with the resin reduction. And when they went up, we went up more than the resin reduction. So that way we are taking small steps in price recovery. Margin recovery, ADD and BIS will definitely as and when they come will add to the margins. But that would be I would say more like a bonanza.
Unidentified Participant
Got It So when we say that it will improve the margins, will it? Are we. Are we saying from the fourth quarter numbers it will or or from FY25 because the number is a significant difference is there? So that’s what just wanted a. So from here on whatever we have reported in fourth quarter one can see a improvement on the margin.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
What I’m talking about is from here on I’m not really looking at the history. History is history. I’m looking at today onwards what happens.
Unidentified Participant
That’s great, that’s great. Lastly sir, in terms of the this cash so we were looking at capital allocation so 2535 crore cash. So how one can look at.
Unidentified Participant
So two things.
Unidentified Participant
One so currently last time I think we have spoken that we will be adding another 25,000 ton capacity. So if you can specify the current capacity and what one can look at the addition in the capacity and how we want to utilize this cash 2,500.
Unidentified Participant
Crore plus
Saurabh Dhanorkar
the capacity increase incremental will continue to happen. With 25,000 we added it’s a total. Our total project is 50,000 addition to capacity which within. Within the, within this quarter or early next quarter will complete that 50. Partly 25,000 has already happened during Q4 25. The remaining is happening in the next couple of months. Beyond that obviously with the market growing we are looking at capacity increase but as you know for the pipes it’s not a very highly capital intensive business. The capex on the capacity increase will not be very very high. So all said and then we would be left with cash and as we have discussed in the last analyst call also it’s a question of time.
Again this is the board’s decision so I cannot really give you any concrete figures or timeline. Finally if we don’t have a very large capex then it will be returned to the shareholders. But it’s a matter of time and it’s. It’s a board’s decision. So I would not like to specify anything right now.
Unidentified Participant
Great, great. Sir, just to clarify when we say the 50000 to be added so currently our capacity pipe would be the similar 4 lakh 20 and fitting is 50 and from there we will add another 25 000. Is that understanding right?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
420 will go to 470 and 50 is currently enough so it will be 520.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay, okay.
Unidentified Participant
So we will add another 50. So from currently 420 it will go to 470 and 50 will remain the same.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay, great.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you and all the best sir.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you.
operator
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Poojan Shah from Molecule Ventures. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, yeah. Am I clear now? Hello.
operator
Yeah, better now.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So my first question would pertains to. So we are hearing that IoT has removed this chain for the SPVC for the entity purpose. So there is a bit of optimism in the prices which have been seen in the last four days. So we have seen almost 2.5 rupees per kilogram has been increased. So do you expect the AD to be. It should be implemented sooner and if yes, what could be the price implementation could improve the realization going forward?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No sir, this price increase which has happened in the last week has nothing to do with add. This is basically because of strong demand from the market for the last couple of months. The price increase after the ADD is implemented is yet to come. And to be honest, nobody knows when it will really come, if it comes in June. So that will be an independent result of that. The result of the DDD will be seen independently in the prices. This current price increase is overall there is a good demand scenario. Less talk with previous resin suppliers, less imports coming in for various reasons.
So this is just a demand supply factor that these prices have gone up. ADD we are expecting in June. But to be very honest with the way the government scheme, I mean the initiatives are being handled currently. Nobody sure whether it will be June or July, but it will come. Maybe we are hopeful it will come.
Unidentified Participant
But in the case of the SC which has been imposed the state. So is that removed right now due to it doesn’t have any say on the LED part due to as the case goes to the DGTR and the Ministry of Finance and there is no sale from the Gujarat state. So is that removed or it is still prevailing right now?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, no. The day the stay has been removed. So there is nothing, no hindrance left now. So it’s a question of procedural now delays and I don’t think they can delay too much now. But having said that we are already at the end of May. So whether it will happen in June or in July we have to wait and see. But it will happen now. There is no obstacle to that.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
And so I just wanted to understand on the second case is that in the China we know that 80% of the PVC regions are made by a carbide rule and it is not environmentally friendly. So just wanted to understand there is a hard stop of 2031 that there should be a decrease in the manufacturing of the PVC revenue from the China. So do you see that positive impact flowing right now by a capacity being shut down and the conversion being happened or it it will take time.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
That process has already started. But to be honest, more than that calcium carbide route and environmental issues with all these, once the anti damping duties kick in and bis more importantly once the BIS comes in then China will become very very difficult currently country to import from. So all of a sudden then the whole scenario will change. So more than the add we are looking at BIS and which is actually there is nothing stopping the bis. There cannot be because BIS mandate has been imposed on many other products. So previous resin is much lower, was much lower on the list already.
A lot of products have already got this BIS and once that happens none of these this resin from China can come in. So that’s a very positive. So going ahead we see less and less threat coming from China.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
So just add on to the third point. So on the BI said you are talking about paste suspension PVC right? Not the paste, no suspension.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. And then my third question would be on the CPVC side. So if we look into it we know that many of the manufacturers have been expanding their capacities. So domestic procurement will be easily available right now in coming years. Even large giants like Reliance and Adani might adding the capacity coming years ahead. So do you think that realization will impact on a higher side and that should be compensated via volumes? Or do you think that demand supply will be stabilized once the capacity gets on stream by all this place?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, but the capacity which has been announced and which is on the way is still short of the total demand. So the total demand, even if we take a muted growth of say maybe even single digit will continue to grow. And all this capacity is still not going to outstrip the demand. So that I think that the dynamics will not change drastically.
Unidentified Participant
But sir, if we considering the single digit scenario as well, so current demand would be around 250. Let’s suppose if we assume FY 2029 and all the capacity gets on stream. So the total capacity the supply will be around 570 while the demand would be around 4, 420. So do you still feel that there would be much advantages because might be one of our company is just shifting their plant, that demand will be shifted to over here. There could be around 420 supply so that would be stabilized there. So that’s the demand dynamics which we have been looking into.
Unidentified Participant
No, sorry, I didn’t, I didn’t get the question. The Shifting identity. Who’s shifting the plant?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Sorry. Oh you’re sorry. Sorry, sorry. I completely missed. Misread yourself. You’re talking about cbvc, right?
Unidentified Participant
Right. Yes.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Okay, okay, sorry, sorry. I was talking about spvc. No, no, the cpvc. Yeah, there would be. It is getting more and more commoditized now. So with lubrizole shifting the plant here epigrel growing. You are right. Reliance also might get into it. DCW talking about this. So availability of CPVC is definitely on the increase. And earlier the in fact production or the growth of CPVC was constrained by capacity because getting the wrong material was a constraint which is slowly going as we go ahead. That’s not going to happen. So today the special status that CPVC enjoys, we believe that going ahead it is getting more and more commoditized.
On the manufacturing side also lot of players have got into cpvc. So the super margins which prevailed at one time have already softened a bit. They would still always be better than S PVC because of the technology angle and because of the very low level producers not being able to enter the market. But going ahead I think demand supply will play the role in pricing as it does in spvc.
Unidentified Participant
Just just wanted to add on that part. So in the CPVC space as you like this the margin might squeeze in. So it will might impact the realization in the pipe segment as well as the price of RM gets promoted. Yeah, it. It gets impacted. So do you think that our future growth which we are expecting a double digit growth in the CPVC segment would be compensated more on the volume side as the realization gets squeezing when the capacity gets on stream?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah, the volume it will come from volume. Today also despite much muted business scenario for FY25, our CPVC volume grow grew by 17 or 18% year on year, 70% year on year. So we have been able to grow. And so that market itself is growing. It’s not that only we have grown. And our. Yeah, this would come more from volume. So going ahead we see substantial volumes coming from our CPVC and this our the mix also we see improving greatly towards more towards double digit.
Unidentified Participant
And just last question on the bookkeeping side. So can you just spell the realization currently on pvc CPVC and the spread between PVC and VCM.
Unidentified Participant
And then do you have it open?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
We have the number. See generally we do not disclose the number on realizing per 10 basis. So overall number that we have disclosed that is that is there in the public.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it, got it. Thanks for the opportunity. I will get.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you
Saurabh Dhanorkar
thank you.
operator
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Sonali from Jeffries. Please go ahead sir.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a great set of margins. So my first question is on the resin side. So despite the PVC resin dropping by almost 18% in FY25, I think on a full year basis you have posted a brilliant expansion in your resin EBIT margin. So could you help us understand more as to how did we arrive at such a great number as in what has structurally changed within our business or is it just, you know, something that we did in the interims?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, there’s nothing actually, to be very honest, we can do at the plant level because that’s a running plant and it’s a petrochemical plant. So it’s not that doing any tweaking this and prices are driven by international prices. So basically the delta in the PVC and EDC prices internationally is what drives the margin and that that has been favorable between edc, PVC and VCM pvc. So it’s mainly a question of I think the international price. I would not like to take any great credit for more efficient operations or anything.
Unidentified Participant
Understood, sir. And if I may ask, as an extension to the Same question, in FY25, what proportion of a production of PVC resin came in via EDC and what via vcm?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
You have it Chandan, offhand, out of.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Total production, roughly 1 second, 55% came from the EDC route, rest come from the resin route, VCM route. Yeah, yeah.
Unidentified Participant
So my second question is regarding the demand scenario presently now we understand that, you know, from Q1, in Q1, the initial April month as well, there was some softness in the pv. And right now as we are seeing there’s strong monsoons across most of the parts of India, so which is sort of inversely proportional to the usage of agri pipes. So considering that this is one of your key summer quarters and we are, you know, having witnessing all these, you know, characteristics in terms of demand and PVC resin prices. How would you rate the demand right now and also the channel inventory of the agri pipes.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Right now? In fact, April and May have been very strong months for us both agree and non agree. In fact, till the rain started couple of years, I mean couple of days ago, we have been completely sold out on inventory, maybe running very low on inventory. So the channel, despite the channel not carrying too much for inventory, we pushed out everything. The channel pushed out to the, I mean end user. So as of now the, even despite the push from our Side channel is not carrying too much of inventory. With the rains now starting, obviously the demand will slow down.
We still have to take a call whether this is a long spale of monsoon which is already started because we saw in the last almost thrice out of the last five years we saw that the monsoon starts in June. Then there is a long lull for about a month and a half and then it resumes. So if that happens then the demand will pick up again because to be honest this was little unexpected for the farmers also. So some of the activity is still not complete. So if after a week or so there is a lull then we see a strong demand pull coming back.
If this continues then obviously agri pipes is in because you can’t lay the pipes during where it is raining so heavily. So I don’t know whether I can answer your question very emphatically but to be this till today we are on Monday, maybe till Wednesday, Thursday we have had very very strong demand from the agri as well as non agri side.
Unidentified Participant
That’s pretty clear sir. And my last question of the full year volumes, how much of that would have come from agri vs non agri? As in what percentage volume growth in agri division versus non agri in F25.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
So FY25 our agree to non agree was 67 is to 33.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, so. So your full year volume growth is about 3%. So in the full year how much would be the agri growth and how much would be the non agri growth.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Volume more or less 2% in terms of totality and non agree around 9%.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. So thank you and all the best.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Udit Kajiwala from ES Securities. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yes sir. Thank you for taking out my question and congratulations on your recovery in margins. Firstly, if I may ask, you know just a follow up when you said that the demand is strong for these two months, especially last month, if you can, then is it purely because of restocking or is it some demand in some particular stage that have commenced or is related more to pre monsoon if may lead more on it?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah, this is more basically pre monsoon kind of for this because if you have seen the last few months with the previous resin prices were dropping, people delayed, delayed, delayed their purchases to quite some extent. But there is ultimately there comes a time when what is needed to be bought will be bought. So this was in fact the demand was strong despite the resin prices had still not kicked in. There was still Uncertainty about it now with this 2 and a half rupees increase now suddenly there is a rush from people for the last day.
But that’s a different scenario altogether. So karma, coming back to your question, the demand came from actual users. It’s not that the channel is stocking up too much of inventory.
Unidentified Participant
Got it sir. And in terms of our price differential versus you know, peers in the non western markets where you know, I understand that the western region is one of your strongest zone. But in other markets what will be the price differential that you have versus the peers?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, difficult to answer that because many of I would not like to take any names but some of our large competitors have a different pricing policy in different markets, different pockets. So it changes from I think pocket to pocket, district to district, state to state. And we to be honest, we don’t really play the price game very strongly beyond a certain limit. We depend on our brand and the quality. So I would not be able to give you a clear answer about what is the price difference. Sorry.
Unidentified Participant
Understood sir, no worries. And lastly you mentioned in opening remarks that focuses on more on margin. One of the reason is one of the ways with product mix and some cost control. So could you elaborate more on what kind of cost initiatives are we taking? Is it right?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, basically see like a pub, it’s not a rocket science in our pipeline fitting industry. You improve the operation operating ratios, that is what we are doing. You reduce the scrap percentages and these are some of the things with very tight controls, with very tight monitoring, some outside help from TPM consultants. So some initiatives are being taken. I would not be able to give you too much of details because obviously these are everything is not for the market. But I would just to summarize better efficiencies on the buying side. Also we have got some better pricing now from some of the suppliers based on volume commitments.
So we have changed some buying pattern. So everything adds up a bit. So there is a very clear focus at the beginning of the year. We have taken that this year would be a year of margin recovery.
Unidentified Participant
Understood sir. That’s it. So thank you and all the best.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investech. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Hi sir, thanks for the opportunity and congratulations for a good set of numbers. Hi sir, the first question was currently PVC resin prices are at 70 rupees. 70. 71 rupees sir. Hypothetically if the anti dumping duty comes in, where should we expect this prices to stabilize? Stabilize that is it like 75, 77, 80. Because the range of anti dumping duty across countries it’s very very wide. So how should we understand this?
Unidentified Participant
That’s the first question sir.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
See basically one is the anti damping duty and the advantage which we get immediately because of that. But on the other hand we also have to wait and see whether some of these countries on which anti dumping is imposed are able to absorb part of that by lowering their prices. So that’s why it’s a very dynamic situation. There would be a recovery definitely anywhere between 5 to 10%. But to be honest to put a finger on the number would be very difficult because not the entire anti damping duty. We just can’t take a mathematical average of all the countries and then put a number and it will be something which the larger PVC resin producers will keep trying to a portion at a time and trying to push it through the market and see how the suppliers react to that.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, how did you come to the number of 5 to 10%? Is it possible to comprehend that?
Unidentified Participant
Please.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Sorry sir,
Unidentified Participant
you indicated a price increase could be anywhere say 5% or 10%. How do we arrive at that number of 5% or 10%? Sir.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
That is based on the import pattern and what can go through this is estimate by the industry. 10% I would say would be very very ambitious. 10% would be something like 6 to 7 rupees. But 3 to 4 rupees is something which I think is definitely which can go through. So as I said it can be anywhere between. So you can, if you want to place a range it can be between 3 to 6 rupees.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, is it fair to assume that this 2.5 rupees which has happened over the last 7 days, 10 days, it’s already part of this 3 and a half.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, that that has nothing to do with anti damping. No, because nobody knows.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Correct.
Unidentified Participant
So how should we read into this last 2 and a half rupees 1 and 1.5 rupees of increase. Is it because imports have dried out and hence the price uptake or is it like the demand has really shot up? That’s the reason why as I said.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Demand has been strong for last couple of months plus there have been production cuts because of maintenance shutdowns at the domestic producers level as well as some internal large international players. So the imports have dried up or reduced. I would say there was very very low inventory with the large PVC producers. So this is, and this has nothing to do with anti B. So this, this was purely a demand supply Gap which. So whether this can be sustained is the question over the long run. If there is no anti dumping duty as of now, yes, looks sustainable.
But suppose there is theoretically there is no anti dumping duty for the next four months and then monsoon kicks in, then maybe there will be a question mark whether this can be sustained. So this is purely a current demand and current supply scenario playing out.
Unidentified Participant
Sure sir, this is Harpur. So secondly, as we look into the next fiscal. Do we have any plans to launch any new product categories, any new product lines and anything on geographical expansion if we are targeting anything?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No. As we discussed in the last analyst call, the geographical expansion is something we are working out at the back of this. But even in the last call I said at least for the next six months you will not hear any announcement about that. Currently we see our philosophy, we have already spelled out in the past also is to first squeeze out every possible efficiency from the existing plants. And all our three plants have adequate possibility to increase the production by just changing the replacing the old capacity smaller capacity machines by higher capacity machines. The manpower remains the same, the overheads remain the same and you just get almost double the production from the same space, from the same real estate or from the same manpower.
So our focus always has been to first squeeze out every possible efficiency there and then look at expansion. So we still believe that there is. There is a scope for better capacity at the existing whatever. The next immediate round of expansion which comes after this 50,000 tons definitely brownfield would be option one then option two. We are still quantum bleeding but it’s too early to make any announcement right now.
Unidentified Participant
Sure.
Unidentified Participant
Answer this last question. Would it be possible for you to quantify our total fittings capacity and what part of it is for outsourcing? And a related question, sir. Earlier we had planned that Ratnagiri, given we have two ways to produce resin. Edc, ethylene and bcm. Are we. Do we have any plans to further backward integrate specifically the VCM line or is it entirely on the back burner? Thank you so much.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Sorry, what was your first question? I missed that,
Unidentified Participant
sir. Fittings capacity.
Unidentified Participant
Total fittings capacity.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah, fittings. Chandan will give the breakup. But I would just like to clarify one thing. When you say outsource or when you say in house, it is not in the conventional sense, outsource. You can say outsource. If I am buying from somebody who is also giving to me and giving to auto component manufacturers and giving to somebody else, whatever capacity when we say it is not within our own premises that Is still entirely control driven everything by us. So I personally really don’t really subscribe to this theory of in house capacity and outsource capacity. But having said that, Chandan can give you the numbers.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
So Ritesh, our total fitting capacity is 50,000. Roughly it consists of 1 is to 4. Roughly 1 is in house, 4 is the dedicated outsourced contract manufacturer.
Unidentified Participant
Sure, that’s perfect.
Unidentified Participant
And lastly on the PVC VCM extension and anything on backward integration at Ratna cb?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, nothing immediately. Still as I said, still under study. We have not. I won’t say that it will never happen. It does definitely make sense to push through that. But you will not again. I don’t think hear any announcement in the next six months about that.
Unidentified Participant
Sure sir.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you so much for the answers. All the very best sir. Thank you again.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thanks Ritesh. Thanks.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Sneha Talreja from Nuama. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi sir. And congratulations on great set of numbers. Just two questions from my end. One is related to industry demand. Leaving apart the PVC price increase and decrease and leaving apart the restocking part of it. What is the in general PVC plastic pipe industry growth rate that we are forecasting over the next five, six years?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
The CAGR has always been about 8 to 10%. And there is no reason for that to change drastically either lower or higher. So we expect that close to double digit trend to continue both on agree as well as non agree side. So for our internal calculations we take little about 10% growth.
Unidentified Participant
You are talking about 10% growth in PVC plastic pipe industry only. This has been the past 10 years.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, no. PVC, piper, PVC pipe, plastic pipe industry as a whole.
Unidentified Participant
Understood sir. My second question was related to other new segments. I understand you’re looking at, you know, capacity expenditure program and you are, you know, working on it. But are new products such as OPVC and you know, silent pipes, you know, FirePro pipes. Are all these kind of, you know, pipes being considered? Or is it the expansion only in traditional categories Be it PUC or CPC which are planned at this point of time.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
At this point of time it is still existing conventional pipes, opvc, silent pipes on the study table. But not nothing concrete to be announced yet.
Unidentified Participant
And lastly one clarity. If I see your PVC EDC spreads at this point of time, this spreads, if I’m not wrong with decline by 5%. Qq. At the same time you have seen a great amount of margin expansion. Has those cost cutting measures already being incorporated in this particular quarter only or are we missing out on something?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Can you repeat your question once again please?
Unidentified Participant
If I look at your last quarter EDC spreads that was about 517 this particular quarter I see it 491 but there is a strong QOQ recovery in terms of your plastic pipes, you know, margins. So I just wanted to understand is the cost cutting measures already incorporated because of which you have a sharp increase in margins? Because I mean PC prices the entire quarter were on the downward trend leaving apart the last two price hikes which have been, you know, post the quarter end.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
You’re talking about the PVC, the pipe segment.
Unidentified Participant
Yes, 5 segment margins expansion.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
In fact I don’t know whether you attended the last analyst call but that in that I had mentioned that there was a, to use a bad word, PI swore kind of a situation in Q2 and Q3 and because of which the margins had taken a massive beating. And then that time itself we made, we declared that we would steadily take the margins up. And so this is basically not so much of on the costing side the cost initiatives have started last quarter itself, but that is still to kick in. This is basically because of one, a better product mix and two more importantly better pricing decisions that we to which markets to focus on, which products to focus on and what discounts we are willing to give and what business we are willing to give up if the margins are not good enough.
So it was purely a basic better pricing strategy I would say and which is a more sustainable long term kind of this. So that there was probably some aberration in the pricing strategy in the earlier quarters which got corrected and which is getting corrected further now.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. You also mentioned that the price was last quarter. I mean referring to the scenario is that pricing strategy opted by the large player now done with and are you seeing some stability in terms of pricing, you know, across the players?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah, there is a stability now that was this happened I think in last June, July, August or something that time. But yeah, now, now we see stability and anyway we said we decided that we will not be part of any of these things. So we will based on our brand stability and our brand image. We will, we will continue to, whatever our brand justifies, we will continue to get that price and we are, we are seeing that improvement immediately in the market.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And can you just lastly speak about the PVC VCM spread? I don’t have that handy.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
As of now PBC EDC spread is around 490. PVC VCM is a $160
Unidentified Participant
$160.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks. Thanks a lot sir. And all the very best.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vipul Kumar Anupchand Shah from Sumangal Investment. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
What was the PVC VCM spread last quarter? Sir.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
PVC VCM spread were 174.
Unidentified Participant
174. So it has improved to 190.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Right now 160.
Unidentified Participant
No, I’m talking about current spread.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Current spread I’m taking telling you 160. Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Okay sir, thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Shavan Shaft from Dalit Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity again Sir. Capex for FY26 would be how much.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Roughly around we have planned 125.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Not more than 150.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. 125 to 150.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Unidentified Participant
And sir also just I wanted a clarity. The staff cost for this quarter was 51.3 crore versus for last three quarter it was around 57 odd crore. So is there any a one off in this?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, it’s not exactly one of see there are a lot of year end valuation is required to be done. So because of that it’s a more or less impact of that cascading impact.
Unidentified Participant
Okay so so going forward is it fair that the our staff cost will again come back to that 57 crore kind of a quarterly render?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay.
Unidentified Participant
And and then second obviously the we have a significant cash and that’s why the our other income has also this quarter has gone up to close to 65 odd crore and for full year 247 order. So till the time we decide that this money to be returned to the shareholders this kind of a run rate on other income front likely to continue.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah, it’s more of the result of the how the market is performing. So based on that the things that.
Unidentified Participant
These numbers are coming but more or less similar.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
More or less a similar image here.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay, okay, got it.
Unidentified Participant
And just if you can again clarify in terms of the currently for FY25 when we say the 5% CPV CPUC said does that mean that broadly the the entire industry would be a two and a half lakh ton kind of a yearly number.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah. Around 260, 270.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay, okay.
Unidentified Participant
And then including everything P is PVC it would be a 43, 44 lakh odd. 43 lakh. 44 lakh.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Correct.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah. PVC is actually around 4.1 million. Yes. 4.1 million ton is a total India demand.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it.
Unidentified Participant
Got it sir. Thank you. And all the best.
operator
Thank you. Your next question comes from Poojan Shah from Molecule Ventures. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks for the opportunity sir. So his first question pertains to lets upon the 18. Am I clear now sir?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So my first question would be on the let’s suppose the PVC prices right now what has been inch up it remains the same. Assuming the EDC VCM prices also remains the same. Do you feel that EBITDA margins could be in the range of 10 15% easily going for assuming the similar situation for FY26.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Let us not put on a number on the margin percentage. Let the things. Because it’s a more there are various dynamics that that takes that decide the margin. So let us. We are not willing to put any number on the margin at this moment.
Unidentified Participant
Okay sir. Got it. And right now you say the realization. So the spread between PVC and VC remains at 160 while quarter ago it was 174. So what what has been impacted the margin specific to that because ultimately the EDC has been inch up the beat. So what happened to the VCM part? So why the EC VCM spread has been narrowed down?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No sir, I think what Chandan is saying is the 160 is this month’s.
Unidentified Speaker
Latest one not the year current sitting on today’s date.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
So that if. If you see a long term this also month on month it keeps going up and down. PVC goes up, this goes on. If PVC has moved up and VCM takes time to move up it the delta increases. If PVC comes down and we VCM stays there the data. So month on month it’s very I think not correct to look at it as a trend. Basically if you see a quarterly or a half yearly or yearly trend there is nothing. No, the dynamics have not really changed drastically. So month on month it will always change.
There is no continuity.
Unidentified Participant
So considering year on year it would be around 160 range suspect.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, no 160 released today going ahead we see it same as similar to last year. We have no dynamics we don’t expect to change dramatically.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it sir. And my second question would be on the last call as well we have been mentioning about the OPVC and it is not so we are not being keen to grow and into enter into that space. So what are the key reasons you have been looking into for the because ultimately other players also I understand the segment is too small to right now but other players very optimistic about this product so what are the key thought about this specific to opuc.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
So basically as you rightly said, the market is still quite small and it’s not as if there is a five year or three year gestation period once we decide to get in. It’s not that you have to put up a huge greenfield facility. So the day we feel that the market is right, we already have the brand, we already have the distribution network. It’s a question of three to six months when we can enter the market. So we are still on the wait and watch approach. We are not saying that we will not enter it but right now our focus as I said has been on various initiatives.
The management bandwidth right now is not on over. You see, we’ll get into it when the opportunity time comes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. That is from my side.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question comes from Madhav Agarwal from SG Investments. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, a couple of questions. Can you tell me what’s the current market share for phenolics?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Current market share for the Finolix as a percentage of total PVC pipe market?
Unidentified Participant
Yes sir,
Saurabh Dhanorkar
it’s about see again between organized and unorganized we look at share of the organized market. Chandan, you have the number right now.
Unidentified Speaker
Hold on for a minute, I’ll park this question, you continue. I’m telling you.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Mentioned that our aim is to take the split between agree and non agree to 50 and 50 and currently it’s at 67 to 33. So just wanted to know what are the steps we’re taking to achieve that.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
50 to 50 level. Basically these are all obviously long term measures. One I can tell you one significant step which is driving if you see last year also our growth in non agri was much higher than the agri growth and which we continue, we expect to continue that way. One significant step is that we were practically absent from the projects market. We were depending entirely on the retail network and the large projects. The Lodas and Dani and Sobha, developers of this world, we were, we hardly had any presence there. So last couple of years we have taken.
We have a completely different team for projects business which focuses only on these initiatives and that’s yielding very strong results. So we are now there in almost, I would say 60 or 70% of the top 100 builders. We already there that our share is increasing and besides that within the retail segment all also we are taking lot of initiatives like reaching out schemes for retailers, for plumbers which earlier we were not doing. So in a focused manner which also we are doing and that is yielding results. Definitely. So traditionally we were always agree and we played the market from that perspective.
Now we have completely different teams for agree and non agree and that’s yielding results.
Unidentified Speaker
Just to add Madhav, in terms of our share in the PVC pipe segment. See there are two segment of PVC pipe manufacturer operates in India. One is the organized sector and another is the unorganized sector. So since the data of the unorganized sector is generally not available so we compare ourselves with the largest larger chair. So out of the larger chair we are roughly having a share of 30% around market share.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. Thank you so much. That was all from my time. Thank you.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks mother. Thanks.
operator
The next question comes from the line of Karan Bhattalia from Asian Market Securities. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi, good evening. Am I audible sir?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Karan just wanted to understand what with the fittings volume growth in the entire year passengers could be helpful.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Last year we had a muted growth. To be honest more like 1 or 2%.
Unidentified Participant
And PVC if I heard it correctly FY25 volume growth was 17%.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Correct.
Unidentified Participant
Right. And sir, since the focus now remains more on the non agri side what kind of expansion have we seen on the SKU base or sales marketing efforts in this year and how do we see that in next two years?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
One other SKU base of course we keep on adding every year 100, 200 SKUs. So I don’t have the number right now with me how much we added last year. But that’s an ongoing as and when the market requires we keep on adding. Today we have more than 1500 SKUs exact number. Unfortunately I don’t have right now and initiative as I said for the non agree. I just emphasize the earlier question. In the earlier question that the projects business, the reach out to the retailers. We have now a large digitization program going on where we have visibility on the inventory with the retailers.
We have direct outreach with the retailers. So a lot of these digitization reach out programs plus to a great extent the projects business is adding out to our non agreeable. Right.
Unidentified Participant
And have we also separated the project team from the retail team? Like is the focus on projects too?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yeah, that’s a completely separate team. They don’t even look at the retail business. They are completely on the previous side.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Vishal Shah from Samiksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible sir?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
So on the question regarding survey of 2500 crore cash and books and the board will decide. So as the matter is going on since last more than couple of years so when can we expect the same as we are not doing much capex of 125 to 150 crore so can we expect in the next one year or so?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No Michelle, it would be not only unfair it would be illegal for me to answer that question because that is a question which only the board can take a decision. But I can say one thing. The management is fully aware that yes this is a money we are holding on behalf of the investors and if we don’t use it adequately for the business we are obliged to give it back to the investors. So the board of directors, the management is sensitive to this issue but it would be unfair for me to put a timeline timeline on it please.
Unidentified Participant
Second question. Can we expect any sale of like Last year in Q1 we sold the property. So can we expect the similar line of sales of the additional property that what we have and exceptional item in the current year also?
Saurabh Dhanorkar
No, I don’t think we plan to sell anything now.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, fine.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you sir.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Madhav Agarwal from SG Investments. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi sir, I just had a quick follow up on my earlier question. Just wanted to know the split of split between the retail and project business.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Of the project business for us is. In fact we just started as I said the whole concept started a couple of years back. This year we have done well but I think it would be still project which is only 10% of the retail business. There is scope for growth but today we are not. We are not where we would like to be.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you. Thank you everyone for attending this call today. And if you have any further questions you can always reach out to us by mail or by telephone and we’ll be happy to answer. Have a wonderful day. Thank you again.
Unidentified Speaker
Thank you everyone. Thank you for your participation.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI securities. That concludes concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.
Saurabh Dhanorkar
Thank you.