Engineers India Limited (ENGINERSIN) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall Transcript

Engineers India Limited (NSE:ENGINERSIN) Q4 FY23 Earnings Concall dated May. 29, 2023

Corporate participants:

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Analysts:

Venkatesh Subramanian — LogicTree Investment Advisers — Analyst

Bhoomika Nair — DAM Capital — Analyst

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Charanjit Singh — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 BMS — Analyst

Mohit Kumar — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Viraj Mithani — Jupiter Financial — Analyst

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Presentation:

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Engineers India Limited Q4 FY ’23 Earnings Conference Call hosted by DAM Capital. As a reminder, all participants’ lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions] Please note this conference call is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital. Thank you, and over to, you ma’am.

Bhoomika Nair — DAM Capital — Analyst

Yeah. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 FY ’23 earnings call of Engineers India Limited. We have the management today being represented by Mr. Sanjay Jindal, Director, Finance; Mr. Suvendu Padhi, Company Secretary and Investor Relations; Mr. R.P. Batra, Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations; Mr. Sunil Saxena, Executive Director, Technical and Investor Relations; Mr. Amanpreet Singh Chopra, General Manager, CMD Office and IR; Mr. Vivek Mehta, General Manager, Marketing, Business Development and IR; Ms. Neha Narula, Senior Manager, Company Secretary and IR.

I’ll now hand over the call to Mr. Jindal for his initial remarks, post which we’ll open up the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

[Technical Issues] and good evening, everybody, and a warm welcome to all. Recently, we have declared our annual results for the financial year ’22-’23, and the informations are with respect to standalone and standalone results. With respect to financial performance for the year ended 31st March 2023, on a standalone basis, the Company has registered turnover of INR3,284 crore in comparison to INR2,870 crores in the last year ended 31st March 2022, which is the highest in the last 10 years.

With respect to last year, there is an increase of around 14.5% in turnover of financial year ’22-’23 and comparison to financial year ’21-’22. The turnover from the consultancy and engineering segment stood at INR1,418 crore and from turnkey segment was INR1,866 crore. Total turnover is INR3,284 crore. In the fourth quarter, the Company has achieved a turnover of INR866 crores in comparison to INR831 crores in the quarter ended 31st December 2022, showing an increase of around 4% on quarter-on-quarter basis with turnover from consultancy and engineering segment amounting to INR371 crore and INR495 crore in the turnkey segment.

However, our margins are up by several folds, that is 3.3 times. There is increase of 230%. During the fourth quarter ended 31st March 2023, the Company earned a profit of INR159 crore in comparison to INR48 crore earned in the previous quarter ended 31st December 2022. During the year ended 31st March 2023, the Company earned a profit after tax of INR342.15 crore in comparison to similar profit of INR344 crore in the last year. The Company is having a healthy earning per share of INR6.09.

On consolidated basis, the Company earned a profit of INR346 crore for the year ended 31st March 2023 in comparison to INR140 crore earned during the last financial year ’21-’22. Therefore, there is an increase of 147% in the consolidated profit on year-on-year basis. Overall in the RFCL project, this unit is operating at full capacity and excellent energy numbers, and we are expecting more and more profit in the coming time.

And some of the other highlights are as follows. Our cash flows are very positive and leanless is visible on trade receivables. Year trade receivables reduced considerably during the year ’22-’23. Our debtors stood at INR353 crore during the year as compared to INR371 crore. The debtors number of days of turnover has declined to 39 days during the financial year ’22-’23 from 47 days during the financial year ’21-’22, which is the lowest in the last 10 years. During the year, the Company earned total dividend of INR62.39 crore as against INR41.78 crores during the financial year ’22 — ’21-’22. And in the current financial year, we have dividend of INR55 crores from the NRL investment.

And the as on-date, we have the order book status. In the current year, order inflow in EIL increased significantly to INR4,708 crore in the financial year ’22-’23, as compared to order inflow of INR1,687 crore in the last financial year.

Recently, the Company has [Technical Issues] following measure foreign jobs order, $22.14 million for supervision of Guyana Integrated NGL plant in the Guyana, South Africa — South America; EPCM job of $39.04 million for the greenfield 400 TPD urea and 2,300 TPD ammonia complex in Nigeria. The above order inflows definitely increase the EIL international footprints as part of vision of the Company for the geographical diversification.

And this is the highlight of the annual financial period. Bhoomika, now I hand over to you.

Questions and Answers:

Operator

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] We take our first question from the line of Venkatesh Subramanian from LogicTree Investment Advisers. Please go ahead.

Venkatesh Subramanian — LogicTree Investment Advisers — Analyst

Yes, sir. Good afternoon. Congratulations on a good performance. I’ve been recently reading up quite a bit of media releases, and EIL is on the path to further growth in the next few years. So two questions, sir. One is, I understand oil and gas continues to be a primary source of revenue for the Company and you’re also planning to increase your order book in the Middle East further. But I’m more — while that goes on at a particular growth rate, if you can indicate some sort of growth in top line over the next five years from the oil and gas segment.

And number two, from the new areas that you’ve been pointing out, which is in terms of renewables or nuclear power or anything else that Engineers India is now foraying into, what is the kind of vision that how over a five-year period that we can look forward to from the Company?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Good morning. Good afternoon. This is Vivek from IOCL. Regarding this growth, you’re correct that our core area and core focus would be oil and gas, because where the business lies right now and it’s going to be there. Specifically, we see there lot of growth in the petrochemical sectors, all the refineries are going towards the petrochemical, many crude to chemical complexes are in plan and we are involved in various studies. So we see lot of perspective over there. And definitely, these projects are going to be there in the next four years to five years, because they are right now in the book, like in the conceptual stage. So when these get realized, it will be in actually next two years to three years, four years because you must have seen that we have few opportunities that have been published in the — the information is being given to the media also with regard to the IOCL’s part of refinery compared to petrochemical.

IOCL’s petrochemical complex is just INR61,000 crores. As well as the BRO[Phonetic] levels are going for the refinery expansion and petrochemical complex. In similar ways, all the companies are moving towards it. So that’s actually the very lucrative sector for all of us and support our products, so we will be targeting that.

With regard to the other sectors, we have already moved into the other sectors like the green hydrogen, bioethanol, bio — green hydrogen, biofuels, coal gasification, and then fertilizer is also growing, we are going into that. And then non-ferrous metallurgy is also going. We are also entering into defense nowadays. So these are the sectors we have targeted now and we are working towards it, like — sectors like green hydrogen or green ammonia or the green areas, these are the new sector — coal gasification are the new areas. So most of the activities happening right now is in the construction stage, like studies are being conducted. And we see that it is going to increase — when the project liabilities established, the project will be established.

So we see that opportunity out there. So this is the perspective we are looking at it. Going pretty international. Internationally, [Indecipherable] area now we are going to focus. You must have seen that this year, international has given a very good contribution in our business. So we have also changed our strategy and we have started focusing on the international market. So, we are strengthening our Middle East office which is located in Abu Dhabi. So that is going to take care of the EBIT lease market business as well as we say more manpower, more projects have been targeted. We have also gone into — you must have seen that this time, we have gone into the South America and secured one of the assignments. So, we are also targeting nearby countries wherein we can have more business opportunities of similar — similar types.

Then another area which is coming up very — which is very productive for all of us, and it’s a niche — it’s a new area, is the Africa. Africa, we are already there and we have the substantial experience of working in Nigeria wherein we are — you know that we are constructing a refinery. So using that experience, we have been able to secure projects for fertilizer. And now you will be — we will be very pleased to tell you that we have — we have received another order from the same client for the same too in this year, which will be reflected in this year’s business. We have already signed this order recently in last week.

So, we are also thinking of having some petrochemical complex. We are talking to some clients with respect to the petrochemical complex in Nigeria, as well as we are focusing towards the other African country wherein there are prospects of, like, LNG are there or fertilizer is there or oil and gas is there, so we are targeting gross countries also. So that’s how we are focusing our — shifting our focus from purely being the domestic company to overseas company. So that’s one of the areas.

And another focus has been given from the core sectors to infrastructure. You much must see that in the recent results also, our core infrastructure contribution in our business is increasing nowadays. We have been doing various projects earlier. We have been — we have done various institutional building works, our data center projects. Now, recently, we have got one — this year, we have secured one assignment in EPC bids — on EPC basis from — in the infrastructure segment also. So we are also focusing on the infrastructure part of it.

Venkatesh Subramanian — LogicTree Investment Advisers — Analyst

Perfect. Okay, great. I think it’s probably too early to talk about numbers, but is it fair to assume that we have enough opportunities to probably grow at 15%, 20% top line over the next three to five years?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Exactly. So, number — talking about the numbers is difficult because we have to target lot of projects, many of these projects are in the annual, but saying that this number would be there, we cannot say that with surety. But definitely we have a target in mind. We will be securing that much business at least in this financial year, so to maintain our business what we have secured this year. So will be at least trying to reach to that level and try to improve over the results and all the efforts are being on. So you must have seen in the progress in EIL’s business and the — like visibility of EIL. You must have seen that. So that focus will continue to happen.

Venkatesh Subramanian — LogicTree Investment Advisers — Analyst

Sure, sure. I appreciate that, sir. I will join the queue, sir. I’ll come back to you. Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] We take our next question from the line of Ashwini Sharma from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Thanks for the opportunity. Can you hear me?

Operator

No, sir. We cannot hear you very well. Please use the handset and close — speak a little closer to your mic, sir.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Yeah. Is it better now?

Operator

Yes, a little better. Please go ahead.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Yeah. Sir, my first question is on clarification. The change order that you had received during March from HRL, is it totally implemented or still it got some things included in the backlog — current backlog?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

It is yet to be implemented. It is undergoing.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Okay.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

There’s work we are doing already and this is change order by way of increasing scope of work. And that is to be executed in the coming time.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

All right. Sir, my second question is on the NOI that we have received INR1,600 crore, what is the breakup of that in terms of consultancy and the turnkey projects?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

And what, sir? Sorry, I could not get to you. Your voice is not clear.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

I’m sorry, sir. I’m saying that the INR1,600 crore of flooring orders that we have received, since you have mentioned in the press release…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

[Speech Overlap] Who has the orders?

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

I’ll just come back. Thank you.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Okay.

Operator

Thank you. We’ll take our next question from the line of Dixit Doshi from Whitestone Financial Advisors. Please go ahead.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. First question is a clarification. So if I see the Q3-end, our order book was around INR7,865 crore. This quarter, we received in new fresh orders of INR3,900 crores. And if I remove the execution of INR865 crores, the order book should have been INR10,900 crores, but it is reported around INR7,695 crores. So there is a difference of INR3,200 crore. So is it related to this change order?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah. This is basically related to the change order which we have received and accepted during the current quarter. That we already reflected in our order book as of 31st December ’22.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. That was already there in 31st December…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Order book.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Also this INR3,200 crore difference, how — I mean, where it has gone?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

You see, basically from the two major projects we are executing for the turnkey segment.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

So that INR3,200 crores is yet to be executed, right?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Some part of it is being executed and other part will be executed over a period of time.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

So how much is…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Basically, the projects are spread over a period of three years to 3.5 years. So revenue will ignite over a period of time. Some of it is being executed and balance will be executed over a period of time.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. So this change order basically is not entirely reflected in the INR7,695 crores order book?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

No, that is totally reflected in INR7,695 crore. I showed you that as of 31st December ’22, we have taken that into consideration while calculating the order book status, but not one is coming in the order inflow.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay, okay, okay. And then, secondly, can you just help me to understand the INR78 crore write back in the other expenses?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah, basically, you are aware that we are executing some major project and we are creating provisions for contractual obligation in our financial books when the job is over in case no liability comes. So whatever provisions we have created over a period of time that is being written back. So we have a settlement for one of the major order in this quarter and the write back on account of that particular order, majorly on account of that particular order.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay, okay. And that is also part of both the segmental profit like consultancy and turnkey?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

No, that is a part of the consultancy segment profit.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Consultancy segment profit, okay. So assuming that every year we have some change order, the annualized basis, we can expect consultancy to post 27% to 30% range of margins and EPC at around 4%.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

We target for that, but that depends on the, basically, completion of that particular project when integrity, when to write back. So that depends on the, basically, settlement of change order and completion of job. The margin may vary from quarter-to-quarter, but our aim is to maintain the range.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. And you mentioned that the typical execution cycle is around three, 3.5 years. So that is for both the outstanding order book, current consultancy and turnkey?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah, both — for the both basically. Major order in the consultancy and turnkey segment are between three to 3.5 years, plus there are certain small orders also which are educated maybe within one year or six months also. But on an average, you can see that order book is being executed in a period of three year — three to 3.5 years.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. And…

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

All the mega projects and mid-sized projects range from three to four years.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay, okay. And lastly on all the opportunities you have mentioned, the upcoming opportunities on the hydrocarbon side or even infra side or even ammonia side, so considering all this, do you expect that — I mean, the non-hydrocarbon business can be 30%, 40% over — of the overall EIL business over the next three to five years? Or still you name hydrocarbon will remain predominant?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Actually, hydrocarbon will always lead because we are mega projects and their values are high. So they are at least next five years, they are going to lead. Probably in times to come, when all these green initiatives and all gets more frequent and projects are implemented, right now most of these things are on the paper. When these projects are implemented — right now, many of the projects have been implemented under the government pressure. So we have to establish the — they have to establish the commercialization of it and gradually when the projects becomes more viable, then definitely our segment will also increase. In fact, we are also changing — we are moving towards it.

This year, in the energy transition segment, we have almost secured business worth 10% of the overall business. So that percentage has increased drastically, which were never used to be there in the earlier segment — earlier — last year.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Okay. And moreover, you know, Yale is known for their technical capability. So we are targeting high-end engineering projects. And as on-date, high-end engineering projects are oil and gas sector. And that’s why we are having 27% segment profit in the consultancy job. And in the infrastructure job, you cannot think of even double-digit figure. So in the interest of bottom line, definitely we are targeting oil and gas sector at this time.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay, okay. That’s it from my side. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Charanjit Singh from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Charanjit Singh — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Hello, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations on good set of numbers.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Afternoon, Charanjit-ji.

Charanjit Singh — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Yeah. Sir, my first question is in terms of the order inflow outlook. If you can give a guidance in terms of what is our expectation for this financial year and which could be the large projects in the petrochemical side or the refinery side which we would be targeting? That’s my first question, sir.

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

First is that we will try to batch what we have secured this year. We will try to improve upon that. We won’t be trying to give the figures right now, but this is just a start of it. And at least, we are going to meet that and we are going to improve on that. And with respect to the petchem and other projects, you must be aware that we have talked about the BORL, where — which is going for the refinery expansion as well as the petchem. So that’s definitely on the card. Then we have deep expansion project, which is going to come in future. Then many of the other refineries, like in private sector also they are thinking about crude to chemicals, we are working with them. We are preparing a piggyback report for them.

There is another private sector, like — we are already involved in the earlier polymer project, they are also thinking of specialty chemicals. So we have also working for them. IOCL is also thinking of few petrochemical facilities in Gujarat. In times to come, they will be quoting a tender. So we will be also participating there. This would come in this financial year, largely in this financial year. So these prospects are definitely there.

Charanjit Singh — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

And, sir, from mix perspective between turnkey and consultancy, what could the mix we can expect in the order inflow?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

It could be primarily — first is you know that traditionally we will be going for the LSTK only on OB mode wherein we are more secured. So consultancy, P&C and EPCM will be leading. This year, EPC — the LSTK has [Speech Overlap] it’s already 57%. Naturally, we’ll try to maintain the same ratio next year also because we are also focusing on the OB kind of projects from — right now from the oil and gas sector as well as in the other defense sectors also we are trying to get into that kind of more. So let’s hope for the best. We’ll keep our fingers crossed. We should be able to get more into OB. And selective LSTK, definitely we will be targeting it.

And we see that it has — it could be approximately 50-50 in times to come.

Charanjit Singh — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

So 50% consultancy and 50% turnkey that is what we’re expecting?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

I mean, it could be there.

Charanjit Singh — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Okay. Sir, and another…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

[Speech Overlap] definitely will not be fusing any business. So ideally, we want to look like this. Basically, our consultancy business depends upon the mega project in India, because all the oil and gas — all the projects in oil and gas sector are driven by the government schemes and government approvals. So, there are so many factors for the consultancy job.

Charanjit Singh — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Got it, sir. Sir, if I may just add another one question. So in terms of the defense and some of the new segments, while you’ve touched upon, but if you can just also give some more color in terms of what is the area which we are targeting in the defense? And you also touched upon coal gasification, where we have already seen a coal gasification policy and Coal India looking to get into that opportunity. So that’s a totally new area. So these two segments, if you can highlight more, sir?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Today, defense, we will be working with the — we are trying to enter into the ordinance factories for modernization of their plants. We have some projects online and we are discussing with them. And so it’s not exclusive — it’s not appropriate to tell the name at this point of time. And with regard to the gasification, we are working with the NLC, Neyveli Lignite Corporation. We have already done the Phase 1 of their budget pre-project activities part. So we are likely to see their implementation of the second phase.

Apart from that, we are also engaged with few of the other private consultants who are right now in the feasibility state itself, but we are working with them to see that whether that project season that’s from the coal to chemical projects, we are working on that. With few private sector clients, those are mostly in the feasibility stages.

Charanjit Singh — DSP Mutual Fund — Analyst

Got it, sir. Thanks a lot for taking my questions. I’ll circle back in the queue. Thank you, sir.

Operator

Thank you. We will take our next question from the line of Jonas Bhutta from Birla Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Thank you, sir. Just a question on the oil and gas sector. You are also targeting jobs in upstream. Any updates there what seems to be happening there? There was a few jobs that we are expecting — projects, sorry, we were expecting from the upstream sector. Second one was a couple of years ago and for quite some time now we’ve stopped discussing the mega refinery, now off late it came in the news, but any update there in terms of the possibility that this project goes through?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

In the upstream sector in India, primarily we’re engaged with ONGC and we have agreement — and mostly we are focusing only muni consultancy assignments. And these projects are not in the exact exploration type. They’re mostly linked with the processing of the crude oil. Processing basically subsequent to when it is taken out, and then processing facilities are the [Indecipherable]. So all those kind of projects we are involved in. So that is the focus on the oil and gas projects. [Speech Overlap]

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

But is this something that is [Technical Issues] significantly large projects in the next financial or the following year, sir?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Not large projects, they are going to be consultancy. Some of them are going to be LSTK projects which we are — we have secured. The OBE projects which are coming under that are from that segment only, because we take up those projects on OBE basis. So in LSTK segment, those will be there. Apart from that, in consultancy also we are getting lot of assignments and we think segment — from the same segment and same kind of work, trying to ramp modernization of the facilities and also we are targeting those projects.

Apart from that, we are also there in the international. And international market, we are working with that now wherein we are carrying out lot of FEED — FEED and engineering assignments with them in the upstream segment.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Got it. And any update on the mega refinery?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

On the — mega refinery, which is the other piece here, they are still on the cards, but you know that it’s location has been changed three times. So nobody can say when it is going to come, but still the work is on. We are engaged in the environmental services — consultancy services for that project. So we don’t see that the hope is dying, but it’s still there on cards.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Understood. Sir, you laid out…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

[Speech Overlap] It is possible.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Got it. And you laid out certain projects that you’re looking at, say, BORL, etc., for this financial year. Are these all projects now opened for competitive bidding in the sense that these are competitively bid projects or these are non-financial as of now?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Basically, all the — all these projects goes on competition basis only. These days, most of the projects we secure are on competition, which means that we will see. We have to face the competition and we have been facing it.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Unless it’s a change order, right?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Sorry?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Unless it is a change order.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Unless it is a change order.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Okay. And if — Batra-ji can help explain this entire change order thing because it formed part of our backlog in effect in Q3 and then in Q4, it’s not. So, I just missed that part, if you can help me understand that.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Yeah. I told you basically the — in the order book, that was reflected as of 31st December ’22 in the inflow we have shown that during the current quarter, because that particular thing is accepted by EIL in the current quarter.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Okay. But this is something that will add to our revenue or this has already been executed and we had just put up pending…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Some part has already been executed and balance is to be executed.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

How much of it is unexecuted, sir?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Right now, I don’t have any figure regarding how much of it is executed, but maybe 50% executed and 50% yet to be executed. Maybe…

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

And what…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Basically, given the — I don’t have exact figure right now.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Sure. And what is the provisions pending? So as of 31st March, the provision schedule that you have in the balance sheet, so to account of how much — what is — at one point in time, it was about INR400 crore, what is it currently?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Relative provision maybe more than INR500 crore.

Jonas Bhutta — Birla Mutual Fund — Analyst

Got it. Thank you. Thank you, sir. All the best.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Himanshu Upadhyay from O3 BMS. Please go ahead.

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 BMS — Analyst

Yeah. Hi, good afternoon. I had a question on — we said about for growth, we want to diversify into various segments, okay. And some of them are urban infrastructure ports and harbors, and defense and biofuels. And see, what are the areas where we don’t want to focus on?

Because we are seeing infrastructure growth happening across the board, what would be the metrics which you will be using to select which businesses you think can be really sizable, sustainable business and profitable business over a longer period of time and hence, those would be the areas we are — primarily you will be focusing on?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about the infrastructure part. Infrastructure part, if you see that we are primarily focused on the institutional buildings. We are not into general construction budget. We work as a project management consultant. We go into institutional buildings, we go for the datacenters or kind of airports, we work for. Then, the other — we have also been involved in the bullet train project and some of the case, we have been able — we were looking at the construction supervision consultant for one of the fresher for that. So these kind of projects, niche projects are targeted. We don’t compete with the consultants, wherein in those segments where we — which have low-value segments and where the competition is very high and we are not likely to get the business.

Similarly, in the other segments, like in the biofuels. Biofuels is going to be a new area, we are already executing one of the first refinery in India which is our bamboo-based refinery. So this is a highly technology since — where technology intensive. We have entered into an agreement with one of the licenses to get the technology and we are implementing. So this is adding niche to us. Similarly in the hydrogen, hydrogen is going to be a new area, so hydrogen may — we are getting into electrolyzers. We are setting up hydrogen plants in the refineries from the ground hydrogen to green hydrogen we are converting. We are working into the green ammonia segment wherein the green hydrogen is also going to work.

And so, now, if you see that renewables, we are not going into renewable because renewable in the basically solar in all these segments, there are lot of players are already available who are very low-cost players. So we do not find any value for us to be in that segment and we cannot compete with those people. So that is the kind of area we pickup wherein some technology intensity is there and we are capable of that. We can get certain assignments on negotiation basis. Like in infrastructure, we mostly get the projects on negotiation basis from various clients. So this way, we segregate the work.

And where there are substantial engineering work is involved and we get the value and good, I can look more engineering man-hours. So that will be our focus for selecting any of the area.

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 BMS — Analyst

Okay. And in terms of profitability, any views you want to have that below this type of margins is not conducive for us because even in some of these fields we see some of the global players having very low margins? So what would be threshold…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

This is wherein we want to enter and establish area. it’s a very specific area which is going to add value to us. Then one can think about it, otherwise we will be very cautious while taking decision. So every due diligence is done before the bidding for any kind of projects. So we’ll take a call on what basis we have to choose. So there is no genetic written policy that what should we do and what should not do. It depends on the case-to-case basis.

Himanshu Upadhyay — O3 BMS — Analyst

Okay, okay. Yeah, thank you from my side.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Mohit Kumar — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is, sir, what is your order left from the PCM service for Cauvery Basin and Panipat? And what kind of revenues have booked in these projects in last fiscal? And ordering for Cauvery Basin and Panipat, so do you still think it will pick up in in FY ’24?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

I think you have to check whether — you’re talking about Cauvery Basin or P25…

Mohit Kumar — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Both. Yeah.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah, we are recognizing the revenue and for the progress. So, right now, we don’t have the figures. For P25, we’re working — executed at a fast pace and the revenue is being recognized. In the Cauvery Basin also, few things are being done and accordingly the revenue is being recognized. Right now, we don’t have the exact figure how much revenue we have recognized.

Mohit Kumar — ICICI Securities — Analyst

No, sir. My question was is the progress slow in this because I don’t see a lot of pending tender is — tender activities are very slow?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

In the Cauvery Basin…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

In the Cauvery Basin, there were certain political issues. Those will be resolved. I believe that we have seen certain articles that also things are being realized and hope to come back on track post some time.

Mohit Kumar — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Okay. And sir…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Sorry.

Mohit Kumar — ICICI Securities — Analyst

And sir, the crude to chemicals business which you talk about both the IOCL part, the BPCL, do you think that we did this two contract because this contract can be finalized in H1 FY ’24 or do you think it will take a longer time?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

No, it is going to take — it will not be in the finance share in the Q and it will be coming towards the end of the financial year or midway somewhere in the financial year. They might go for certain setting R&D services like the pre-project services, going for the license of selection. Those kind of activities may start.

Mohit Kumar — ICICI Securities — Analyst

My last question on the coal gasification. I think I missed out. Are you expecting anything other from coal gasification part on the NLC project which you have? Do you think Coal India will award some of the orders that where we can have some large role to play?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

In coal gasification, we have approval with one of their subsidiaries for western coal field for a BPR for setting up coal to methanol project. And we have done the feasibility study and it is in the process, then it will be realized. Similar way, another study is also been carried out. So, still in the cards, but the faster pace is Neyveli Lignite, wherein the pre-project activities are being done tendering has been done.

Mohit Kumar — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Understood, sir. Thank you. And all the best, sir. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor Company. Please go ahead.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, firstly, just correct me here. It is the INR70 crore… hello? I am audible, sir?

Operator

Yes.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Sir, firstly, in the — for the consultancy and the engineering project business, there is a write back of INR70 crores in this quarter?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Hello?

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Hello. Yes, sir.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Can you repeat your question? Your voice is…

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Yes, sir. Am I audible now sir? Am I clear now?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yes, better. Better.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Yeah, sir. Sir, I was just mentioning about that INR70 crore figure. That INR70 crore is added back to the profits to the consultancy and engineering project segment?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yes, yes. You are right. Yes.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Okay. And sir, what is the total provision, cumulative provision, you have mentioned about INR500 crore, that is post-executed?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

So going ahead, keeping the contingency aside we can see write-back of INR500 crore as of now?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

That will be written back over a period of time in case…

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Over a period of time. Yeah…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Written back over a period of time. When the objective is being completed and the no liability arises, at that point of time, that particular thing will be written back. In case some liability will come, that will be just from that particular provision. So that will be spread over a period of time. Not in the next financial year or that will be spread over a period of time, and that particular projects will be completed.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

What was this write-back figure for 31st March ’22?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

31st March ’22, right now I don’t have the figure.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Okay. Sir, if we look at our numbers in terms of about our yearly numbers, the PBT numbers have remained flat.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

PBT and EBITDA are almost flat.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Flat it is — I think it would be the fertilizers RSFL contribution that was negative last year and we have been able to lower the losses that has contributed to the profitability in the consolidation, that is what should be the — so what is the likelihood from the Ramagundam Fertilizers going ahead, sir. If you could give us some understanding on how the operations have been? And other Ramagundam, the other investment which we have made, I think, so for the refinery project, how — what have been the dividend amount that we have received and what is the growth plan for these two — these two investments? How are they likely to accrue to the Company going ahead, sir?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

First of all, we have investment in Numaligarh Refinery Limited. We have investment of around INR700 crores in the Numaligarh Refinery. And, as on date, we have fair value of INR766 crore itself. And in the current year, we have received a dividend of INR55 crores on the investment of INR700 crores in the Numaligarh Refinery. Then we have subsidiary — 100% subsidiary certification in Engineers India Limited. And we have received dividend of INR7.7 crores from the CIL. And in addition to that, we have investment in Ramagundam Fertilizers and Chemicals, we have 26% stake. And as I have already told, this — in this year, at this moment, RSL is operating at — under pressure capital capacity. And even sometime it is running even more than 100% capacity. And this is the first year where RSL has has made profit of INR8 crore — profit of INR8 crores on the annual basis. Since it was having losses in the — up to third quarter and in the fourth quarter, plant was stabilized and it was running at 100%, so it could make profit on overall basis. And in the coming year, we are expecting good profit from the RSL investment also.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Sir, in the Ramagundam Fertilizer, what is our investment [Indecipherable]?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

INR491 crore.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

And what is the fair value today, sir?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

It is not listed.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Sir, for unlisted also we are not evaluating it as opposed the number this book value?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

No, no, it’s not required…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Fair value is not required.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

It’s basically, investment at cost, basically, in the JV. So no fair value required to be made for that product.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Correct, sir. And, sir, for the other income component, other income includes the dividend part also out of the INR164 crores that we have booked for FY ’22?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

In the other income, we have received more dividends from the NRL as well as we have received more interest on our fixed deposits also. So therefore, there is increase in the other income also.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

And lastly, sir, what is the cash on the books as on 31st March?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Total cash and bank balance?

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Yes, sir.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

It is around INR1,100 crore.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Okay. And this is also the advances that we have received from…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

INR10 crore advance…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

[Speech Overlap]

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

So if you go to, say — get that amount, sir, what is our own fund cash point here and advances?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah. The advances are around INR100 crores, so it’s around INR950 crore to INR1,000 crore of cash balance there.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Correct, sir. Thank you, sir. And we hope that this year should be better in terms of topline and also the contribution from the subsidiaries would be positive. So that should be sum in substance going ahead.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Definitely.

Operator

Thank you. We take our next question from the line of Ashwini Sharma from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity again. And pardon me if it is — I mean, if I’m repeating the question. So the first question is that the go-ahead later orders, INR1,600 crores, I just wanted the breakup of that number in terms of consultancy and the turnkey?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

That all belong to the turnkey segment. Primarily belongs to turnkey.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

It’s all gone into turnkey, okay. Sir, second question is on the, if I look at the order book of consultancy segment, it has been flat at around INR4,800 crore in the last two years, ’23 and ’22. How do you see this number improving going ahead, sir?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

With respect to the order book in the consultancy segment, you see that order book is going to — we are targeting that more and more consultancy assignments. We have gone into international markets. So we see that more and more and more projects are coming towards it and definitely LSTK is going to be there. And LSTK, we are having this — this year we had a 50% — almost 50% of the stake and the sensitivity is also 50%. So this consultancy business, we are going to increase as soon as — because we are targeting that round that is same kind of margin can be achieved from them.

And with the addition of some of the old projects are going on in the project, so that’s how the OBE is going to be flat. Now with the addition of the new projects which we have secured in the current year, you will see the implication of that on the order book in the times to come. And we are working towards it, and let’s hope for the best.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Okay. Sir, on guidance, if I — in last few quarters, you had mentioned that there’ll be around INR4,000 crores to INR5,000 crores of order inflow in ’23 and going ahead as well. Do you still hold that guidance?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Yes. We will try to maintain that.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

Okay. And lastly sir, on just a bookkeeping question on the Ramagundam, what was the sales and EBITDA number — sales, EBITDA, PBT number for Ramagundam in FY ’23?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Right now [Speech Overlap] it will be around INR4,500 crore.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Total turnover.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Total turnover.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

And EBITDA, sir?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

EBITDA [Foreign Speech]

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Right now exact figure is not…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Exact figure is not available with us.

Ashwini Sharma — ICICI Securities — Analyst

No problem, sir. I’ll take it offline, sir. Not a problem. Yeah, those were my questions, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much and all the best.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Take it offline. No issue.

Operator

Thank you, sir. We take the next question from the line of Viraj Mithani from Jupiter Financial. Please go ahead.

Viraj Mithani — Jupiter Financial — Analyst

Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. I have two questions. One, these new areas which we are talking of going into, would it be on a EPM side or a consultancy side more like? What would be the mix in those areas base to come?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Can you repeat the question, please? Just to get…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

New area [Foreign Speech].

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Yeah. That is — we put that all the new areas primarily will be going into consultancy only. Because of this being a new area, so we can take much of a risk in that. So we have to be very fast, very sure about those segments. And thereafter in the course time — in the course of time, we might go into the EPC in later in this stage, not really in the recent years, but in later in the year.

Viraj Mithani — Jupiter Financial — Analyst

So the fruits of this would take around, I guess — credit, it will take around three to four years to materialize like the numbers from this new area to start coming in meaningful way? It should be at least three to four years of it?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

It should be. Should be.

Viraj Mithani — Jupiter Financial — Analyst

Okay. And sir, my last question is, looking at the last numbers, is it fair to think that retail grow at double-digit top line and double-digit net profit margin? Will this margin could be maintained on next one or two years?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

That that is our wish. We are working towards it, but the competition at the same time is increasing. You should also appreciate that market conditions are changing. Earlier we were the only ones, but there are lot of people around. So we have to work hard and beat them and then get the job. Nothing is coming on the matter.

Viraj Mithani — Jupiter Financial — Analyst

Okay. That is from my side and all the best, sir.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Dixit Doshi from Whitestone Financial Advisors. Please go ahead.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, again. Sir, my question was regarding the growth. As you rightly mentioned that we will be targeting a double-digit growth. But you know considering the order book of INR7,600 crores with three-year execution and we are also targeting INR4,000 crore, INR5,000 crore order win. So, I mean, even if we will achieve double digit, it will be low-double digit, is it fair to assume?

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

What we have said is that we will try to maintain that. We will — we have not said it will go below this, we will try to improve upon this. At least this much we will try to secure, because it’s a future and cannot predict when — but we are working towards the — towards it that we have to increase our top scale and we have to reach the double-digit growth. That is our aim. But for the time being, at least we will maintain that kind of tempo of what we have created.

Dixit Doshi — Whitestone Financial Advisors — Analyst

Okay. And — okay, fine. That’s it from my side.

Operator

Thank you. We take our next question from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor Company. Please go ahead.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Yes, sir. Just a continuation to the question, sir. So for this year, on — we are looking at a revenue growth of 20% of what we closed for FY ’23. And if we look at the bifurcation between consultancy and turnkey, how the growth would be distributed among the two verticals, sir?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

We are not giving any number, but definitely we will try to improve whatever we have achieved during the current financial year and definitely it will be — we are basically anticipating growth in both the segment. But exact figure right now we cannot…

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Only the ballpark number, sir. The business plan much — are done. Now, we have the execution. So we know what the visibility is. So, any ballpark number could help us understand because we were flat year-on year last year. So taking into account — yes, sir.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

We can only say that we will try to improve whatever we have achieved during the current financial year.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Okay. And on the margin profile, sir, how will those numbers look like? Because on the turnkey project, the margins are lower. So if you could give us the bandwidth — the band for both the segments, that would be very helpful.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

So far, we are maintaining our segment profit in the engineering consultancy segment in the range of 27%. And definitely in the LSTK jobs, we are able to achieve the rate of around 3%. So we are targeting these margins in the current year also.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Okay, sir. Earlier, due to some — because of some limitation in the value for items, so for the pension part, there were some extra provisions two years down earlier for employee cost. So are we done and dusted with all those factors? How is that line item looked into, the employee benefit expenses?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah. Maximum provision is being made basically.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

No further provisioning is required on that account.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

We have already made sufficient project within in the financial year 2021 and no further provision is required on that account. Okay, but we are working on the same lines in the same way as has been earlier when if we will take the hit the Company is going to take the hit in case of any shortfall?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

I mean that is a legal provision.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

That is legal provision.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

That we have to avoid. Everybody has to avoid in case there is shortfall that has to be compensated by them. That is the legal, you cannot avoid that particularly.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

But in some PSUs, sir, that had been — that has been taken off. I think so some Gujarat state PSUs have already gone up — changed the policy. So that was the reason why I was…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

No, it does not depend upon the state, it is the PF Act, which states that in case there is any loss over the PF trust, the employer has to make good loss. So that’s why we have make a provision. And this does not depend upon the central or state, it is applicable for all.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Correct, sir. And what is our tax rate currently, sir? Have we moved to the new regime or…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah. Yeah. 25.168%.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Okay. And for the dividend distribution, sir, what is the policy we are adhering to, sir? 30% of the profitability?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

We are paying more than that. Right now, we have paid around 49% during the current financial year.

Saket Kapoor — Kapoor Company — Analyst

Thank you, sir, and all the best.

Operator

Thank you. We take our next question from the line of Raj Rishi, an investor. Please go ahead.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Hi. How do you place yourself with respect to competition, both domestic and international? What’s the edge which EIL has?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

With respect to international, we are quite comfortable, because technically we are strong. Our experience and over experience and that helps us out in qualifying there. And in the international market, it’s primarily focused — most of the international companies give focus on the quality of the services, less on the price as well as the price-wise, we are competitive in that market because we are from India and quality is also here. So we’re comfortable there. In India, competition is increasing because of lot of people giving the rates, lot of companies are hiring locals only and we face competition from the company who hire the people for short duration and fire them. But the quality of the people is not insured, but it’s there — competition is there in India, but still we are surviving and we are able to get the assignments and get the business, but we have seen.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

So, international business is presently how much, around 14% right, of the order book?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

In the — with respect to the consultancy, it is almost 50%. [Speech Overlap] If you talk about the business secured terms, it’s almost 50% this time.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay. And how do you see the trend over the last — over the next two to three years as a — in consultancy, what percentage can be international?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

We will try to maintain the same kind of percentage because we have increased the focus on the international market and we have done a lot of changes within the organization itself, like more focus has been put in on our Middle East office to take care of the business around that area and most centering of the people in that office. Similarly, we are focusing on the South America. We have started focusing on Africa market apart from Nigeria which wherein we were working earlier. So those activities have started and we are doing it. And the results have — we have — but the results of that this year, so we hope that more of this sort business can be secured from there.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

And do you think majorly it will be consultancy only, not the…

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

It would be — international market will — right now, we will not be going for LSTK. It is going to be consultancy — purely consultancy.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Purely consultancy. Okay. And in the government sector, are you facing competition more than earlier, even in the government sector in domestic?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Government, yes, we are competing in the companies like IOCL. We are meeting and beating the private consultants and able to secure jobs. Competition is there, because everywhere they are not entering, it’s just been awarded — work have been awarded on tender basis.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay. And what’s your capital allocation strategy, if you can elaborate?

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

What is it?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

[Speech Overlap] Basically we have to abide the Nifty guideline. So dividend is 30% of PAT or 5% of network whichever is higher. Plus, there are basically provision for the buyback and bonus and splitting of shares that we are holding up basically. As per the Nifty guideline, we are appalling the capital allocation process.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

That’s the minimum criteria, right? You can go…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah. We have paid more than that, basically. And as per Nifty guideline, 30% of PAT has to be distributed. We have distributed around 49%.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Yeah. But sir, in EIL’s case, you don’t need cash to — capital to grow, right, because it’s a service…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah. We need cash also. Basically, we are having certain investment also. So for that, we need the cash also.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

You think you’ll be going in for more investments like refinery and fertilizer, which you have done earlier?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

[Technical Issues] investment we envisage right now. But we are having…

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

I didn’t get you. I didn’t get you. Can you just repeat it?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

No material investment we envisage as of now.

Raj Rishi — Individual Investor — Analyst

Okay, okay. Okay, thanks a lot.

Operator

Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Milind Karmarkar from Dalal & Broacha. Please go ahead.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Hi. Just wanted to sort of reaffirm that turnkey and consultancy roughly have 50%-50%, right? Am I right on that in terms of the projects in hand or the order book?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yes, you’re audible. And it’s almost, yeah, 50%-50% as of now.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Okay. And if I say that there is a — looking at the current, we have 27% margin in consultancy and 30% margin in turnkey. Then, effectively on a steady state, our margin should be — segment profit should be around 15%, right? If both are 50%-50%, then it should translate into a 15% combined margin. Am I right on that?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah. It’s around 50% during the current financial year.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

No, overall if I consider the order book at 50%…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

That depends on revenue recognition basically. [Speech Overlap]

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Fair enough. But assuming that in next — so if we have three-year period or a four-year period, overall, if I add back all the profits and add back all the — add the top line, then the results should be at around 15%. Am I right on that?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

I mean, you are right, in case the basically the segment remains at 50-50. You’re right, very right. But the segment will not remain 50-50. It will change basically. Revenue recognition change depending on the progress of that particular project. [Speech Overlap] basically that 50%…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Basically, you are saying our segment profit is 27%, and in case our LSTK segment profit is 3%, and you are averaging it 15%, but…

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Over a four year…

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Come line, it does not follow as [Indecipherable] because segment profit is different from the PBT or PAT. Segment profit — after segment profit, we have certain unallocated expenses also which are to be deducted to come at profit after tax.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

No, no. Fair enough.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

It cannot be stayed 15%.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

I’m not talking of the PAT, I’m talking of the segmented results.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Boss, it is — 27% is right. 27% is on the EPA consultancy figure and 3% or 2.5% percent on the LSTK figure. It is right. And in the current year, we have 57% turnover from the LSTK and 43% from the consultancy job.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Correct. So my second question was that, if I look at turnkey projects, most of the private companies typically have margins which are slightly higher than this. So, what are we doing to improve our efficiency in the turnkey projects?

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Yeah. In our case, these are basically not the LSTK projects. [Technical Issues] basically evenly distributed between the client and consultant and the contractor. So as such, there is no risk for the increase in the plant and machinery cost. So that’s why the margins are low. In case of the LSTK, it can be reversed case also. In case spot on machinery cost pass on to you, the margin can be negative also. In this case, we are getting the positive contribution always because our risk is basically limited. So that’s why we are doing the type of jobs.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Okay, got it. And my last question was on besides the cash and bank balances, are there any investments which are not investments for business, which we have like investments in mutual funds or these type of investments, do we have in addition to cash and bank…

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

We are having a temporary investment for 15 days or one month basically to meet our immediate working capital requirement. That vary between INR50 crore to INR100 crore.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Okay, thank you very much.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Liquid mutual fund.

Milind Karmarkar — Dalal & Broacha — Analyst

Okay.

Operator

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. I’d now like to hand the conference back over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair from DAM Capital for closing comments. Over to you, ma’am.

Bhoomika Nair — DAM Capital — Analyst

Yeah. Well, thank you, everyone, for being on the call and thanks to the management for giving us an opportunity to host the call, sir, and answering all the queries quite well. Really appreciate it, and wishing you all the very best, sir.

Sanjay Jindal — Director, Finance

Thank you, Bhoomika. Thank you very much.

R.P. Batra — Executive Director, Finance and Accounts and Investor Relations

Thank you all.

Vivek Mehta — General Manager – Marketing, Business Development and IR;

Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]