Ems Ltd (NSE: EMSLIMITED) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Nov. 13, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Ashish Tomar — Managing Director and Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Sumant Kumar — Analyst
Garvit Goyal — Analyst
Prathamesh Dhiwar — Analyst
Hrishit Jhaveri — Analyst
Dinesh Kulkarni — Analyst
Darshil Jhaveri — Analyst
Meet Jain — Analyst
Abhishek Bhudolia — Analyst
Nitesh Gupta — Individual investor
Hassan Machale — Individual investor
Srinadh Reddy — Analyst
Shriharsha KJ — Individual Investor
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to EMS Limited Q2 FY’25 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sumanth Kumar from Motilal Oswal. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Sumant Kumar — Analyst
Thank you. Good evening everyone and very warm welcome to EMS Limited 2Q FY’25 post results earning call, hosted by Motilal Oswald Financial Services Limited. On the call today we have management team being represented by Mr. Ramveer Singh, Chairman and Mr. Ashish Tomar, Managing Director and CFO. We will begin the call with key thoughts from the management team. Thereafter we will open the floor for Q&A session. I would now like to request the management to share their perspective on the performance of the company. Thank you. And over to you, sir. Mr. Ashish, you can go ahead.
Operator
Mr. Ashish, your line has been unmuted. Please proceed with your remarks.
Ashish Tomar — Managing Director and Chief Financial Officer
Hello? Hello?
Operator
Yes, sir. Please proceed with your remarks.
Ashish Tomar — Managing Director and Chief Financial Officer
Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Ashish Tomar. First of all I would like to welcome everyone to this investors call and I would like to brief about the performance of the company and the financials as per the quarter second of financial year ’25. The performance of the — we have seen an improved performance due to increased tender activity and increase in revenues. This is propelled by the increased push from the government in the water sector. The water sector has been seeing increased activity and funding from the government sector due to increasing urbanization in the country. There have been a steady order flow due to the impetus from the government to increase the works in the water sector to meet the demands of the sanitation and drinking water supply. Going forward there are some new opportunities for us such as hybrid annuity model projects that are coming up in the water sector. The current unexecuted order book for the company stands that around INR2,345 crores approximately which includes approximately INR170 crores worth of operation and maintenance contracts. The current bid pipeline stands at INR6,470 crores approximately and we hope to convert a significant amount into orders going forward. Now I would like to present the numbers. I’m sure you are aware about them but let’s go through them once more. There has been on half yearly basis the operating income stands at INR435.34 crores which has seen a growth of around 41% as compared to the same period last year. The EBITDA at INR121.84 crores with a growth of 30.25% and PAT at INR86.37 crores with a growth of 29.51%. I think these numbers speak for themselves and we continue to be hopeful of delivering the same performance in the coming years. Now I think I can move the call to Q&A sessions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much, sir. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question from the line of Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.
Garvit Goyal
Hi. Am I audible?
Ashish Tomar
Yes. Yes.
Garvit Goyal
Good evening, sir. Can you firstly just clarify like what is the current order book do we have and what is the order pipeline?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah, the current order book is at INR2,345 crores approximately. If this is the unexecuted amount that will be executed in coming two to three years and the order pipeline stands at big pipeline stands at INR6,477 crores.
Garvit Goyal
And sir, the current order book that we are having, is it in partnership with some other player or the entire amount belongs to us only?
Ashish Tomar
We have some of the — I think some projects are in joint venture with other partners, but they are only for the qualification sake and we are going to execute the projects ourselves.
Garvit Goyal
So that means entire revenue will go to top line of EMS Limited, right?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. The entire revenue will go to EMS Limited.
Garvit Goyal
Got it, sir. Secondly, sir, with the government’s recent announcement on Mission Amrit to establish water and sewage treatment plants in the cities. So what is the expected order inflow for the company from this initiative? And how is it anticipated to impact the company’s existing order book? Like if you can put some number to in the terms of amount of order inflows do we expect in next 6 to 12 months?
Ashish Tomar
Just a significant amount of the bid pipeline that I talked about that is INR6,477 crores, that comprises of projects in Amrit scheme and we hope to convert a significant portion of them to orders and we are awaiting for the results on these orders.
Garvit Goyal
So by when do we expect something material to come to us from this bid pipeline that you mentioned?
Ashish Tomar
I think we should expect the results for the majority of this pipeline to be declared in the coming two to three months.
Garvit Goyal
Next two to three months only, right?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah.
Garvit Goyal
And when you say a significant portion of it, like what kind — what percentage of this 5,400 bid pipeline do we expect to come to us?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. We hope to maintain the ratio that we have been delivering so far.
Garvit Goyal
Okay. Coming to the — for FY ’25 performance, like in H1, what we did, H2 is usually better than H1. So can you comment upon like what kind of revenue are we targeting for FY ’25 and what kind of margins for full-year do we have in consideration?
Ashish Tomar
I think we would — I can comment that we hope to maintain and improve upon our past performance of CAGR that we have been delivering year-on-year.
Garvit Goyal
Okay, sir, that’s it from my side, sir. All the best for the future.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Prathamesh Dhiwar from Tiger Assets. Please go ahead.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Yes, sir. Firstly, congrats for the good set of numbers. Just wanted to know in the current quarter, we have delivered highest amount or percentage term, highest ever EBITDA margins. So usually, I think we have also guided earlier like it will be around 25%. But, sir, in this quarter, it was around 29% to 30%. So in coming two quarters, at what level we are looking at in terms of margins, EBITDA margins.
Ashish Tomar
So I think we are confident of maintaining this going forward.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
29% EBITDA margins for H2 also?
Ashish Tomar
Yes, so this is a tender based work. So a slight fluctuation of 1% or 2% up and down is expected. But I think we are hopeful of maintaining the trajectory that we have been delivering.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Okay. And sir, in terms of the industry outlook, are we seeing any order inflow or hinges or headwinds over, let’s say, last couple of months.
Ashish Tomar
Just — so for the first half of 2025, there was a slowdown due to the election process that was going on. And in this second half of the year, I think we are expecting to see much more orders being floated by the government bodies in this sector.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Okay. And sir, if I can ask you in the geographical order mix. So how much comes from — how much percentage of the order comes from UP or let’s say, Rajasthan?
Ashish Tomar
I think the percentage wise figure for UP would be very low at this point of time.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Okay.
Ashish Tomar
And the majority of the orders currently come from Uttarakhand.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Okay. Got it, sir. And sir, when are we expecting new order inflows from water segment, which is or or any new projects?
Ashish Tomar
The majority of the bids that we have are currently in process that I talked about of about INR6,400 crores. The majority of them are in water sector only.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Any new tenders, sir, that are going to come for which we can build important [Indecipherable]?
Ashish Tomar
This is — this is a routine source and every month there’s a fresh influx of tenders that are floated by the body and we go through them based on the tender conditions, the scope of work and the rates that are proposed in the tender. We shortlist them and go for bidding. So it’s a continuous process.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Hrishit Jhaveri from Pi Square Investments. Please go ahead.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Hi, sir, congratulations for the good set of numbers. Can you just guide on what was the new order wins during this quarter and how many new tenders did we bid in this particular quarter, sir?
Ashish Tomar
So I think the new order that was received in this quarter was an order for Kolkata Municipal Corporation of around INR700 crores approximately. It is a sewage scheme financed by the [Indecipherable] scheme.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. And what were — what was our bidding process in this quarter? How much did we bid for new tenders?
Ashish Tomar
At the end of this quarter, the bidding pipeline was at INR6,400 odd crores.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. And sir, I was going through our P&L and we had some inventory cost adjustment of around INR47 crores in this quarter. Can you throw some light, what is this INR47 crore in our P&L costing in the inventory column.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah please hold on. I’ll just look at it. Can you repeat the question?
Hrishit Jhaveri
Sir, in the P&L, profit and loss statement, we have a head called changes in inventory and we have shown INR47.36 crores of expense here. So can you throw some light that what is this?
Ashish Tomar
So, this is a difference of opening and closing stock.
Hrishit Jhaveri
I get that, sir, but being a EPC player such a high amount, can you explain what was the difference here?
Ashish Tomar
Sure.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Hello?
Ashish Tomar
Yes.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Yeah. So, as — we are opening up new sites. I think this is the work in progress that has not yet been measured and built by us, but the work has already been carried out at site. So eventually, I think going forward, this work was certified by department and bills have been prepared.
Ashish Tomar
Okay, that led to a spike in this bid? Yeah.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. And sir, I guess also — what’s our plan to improve on the cash flow from operations side being robust — having a robust order book, unexecuted order book, we’ll need a hefty working capital. And cash flow from operations have been suffering since two to three years. Do we have any plan to maintain a positive cash flow from operation at a significant level going ahead?
Ashish Tomar
I think the cash flow situation has been drastically improved currently and from a negative cash flow to right now we are at positive cash flow.
Hrishit Jhaveri
And do we plan to maintain it and improve it further?
Ashish Tomar
Yes, yes, surely.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. And sir, my last question, earlier you had guided for at least 25% to 30% top line growth with our 25% to 27% EBITDA margin. Do we stick to that number with H2 being stronger this financial year?
Ashish Tomar
Yes, we are going to maintain the cost performance and we hope to improve on that also.
Hrishit Jhaveri
So earlier you had guided. So do we aspire to hit the INR1,000 crore top line in FY ’25?
Ashish Tomar
So, I will not be able to comment on a specific number, but I think, I can comfortably say that we are going to maintain the trajectory that we will be delivering.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, sir. Okay. I’ll get back in the queue, sir. Thank you.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Dinesh from Finsight. Please go ahead.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Hello, sir. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes, Mr. Dinesh. Please proceed with your question.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Yeah. Thank you, sir. And congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, for this quarter, this quarter on a consolidated basis, our revenues have gone up by just 10.9% or 11% or something. And EBITDA has gone up by like 9%, right? May I know like — I was expecting like at least standalone basis, it’s great like we are closer to 20%. Why is there so much difference? Where have we missed it by another 10% on a consolidated basis?
Ashish Tomar
So, in the consolidated figures, the figures are only of the SPV that have been quoted by us for specific tenders. So those figures, I think the majority of our business comes from EPC market only and some of the projects they require formation of specific SPVs. I think there are four or five of them at present. So, yeah. So they affect the consolidated figures, but I think if you are to take the standalone figures, they are good.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Okay. So — and as you mentioned, we will still be maintaining our 25% growth in the revenue growth and margins would remain fairly stable. Is what you’re saying for this year?
Ashish Tomar
Yes. The revenue and the margins would remain stable.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Okay, great. Sir, can you just update what has happened with the new — any update on the paper business or division which we were planning to acquire for some INR50 odd crores or something. Any update on that?
Ashish Tomar
So yeah, so we are not acquiring the paper business. It is only —
Dinesh Kulkarni
The land part from — sorry my mistake.
Ashish Tomar
The land part that we are interested in. Yeah. I think that is in process.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Okay. So can you just any updates on that like I mean where are we there on the — Hello? I’m audible.
Ashish Tomar
Hello.
Dinesh Kulkarni
I can hear you. Hello?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah, the deal is under process and we hope to close it soon.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Okay, fair enough. And we’ve already identified what are we going to do with the land, right? I mean like what is the next product?
Ashish Tomar
It is going to be used as collateral for our banking facilities.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Right, right. And we have some certain operations going on, there are some paper operations on that, right? So we will acquire only the land or are we acquiring the whole unit as such?
Ashish Tomar
So we are acquiring the company.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Okay.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. But we are only interested in the land part.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Yeah, fair enough. So, but see, we will also have — we’ll get some additional operations of the company, which as I’m not mistaken does some around INR50 crore to INR60 crores of revenue every year. So my question is, are we going to keep those INR50 crores, INR60 crores intact and going on continuing with the operations? Are we going to only just sell the — or give it on a lease of — of the operations of the company to some other organization? What is the plan there? I’m asking the plan there, the future plan for the next three years or five years of that unit.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. So I think if we acquire it by end of March, then those numbers would be incorporated. But I think going forward, right now, we are not interested in winning the plant.
Dinesh Kulkarni
So what will we do with it? Like I mean, we will have the land, we will lease-out — I mean, we’ll mortgage the land with the bank, but what we will do with the INR50 crores of operations. Are we going to close the operations? Are we seeing that?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. Currently we are — we have not yet decided. We might scrap the plant.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Okay, I think some more clarity is required there, because I have been hearing, and part of the last 3, 4 months say some news around this every now and then, but we have not really from —
Ashish Tomar
We have been maintaining that, we are only going after the land part and we are not interested in running any industry.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Right, right. And just have some things is we need some more clarity on that, like what will happen with eventually the operations of the business as such, maybe we can take it up offline separately.
Ashish Tomar
Okay.
Dinesh Kulkarni
Okay, sir. Thank you very much and all the best.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Darshil Jhaveri from Crown Capital. Please go ahead.
Darshil Jhaveri
Hello. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you so much for taking my question. Yeah. So sir, just wanted to know in terms of our seasonality, like so due to monsoons, Q2 would be a lower revenue quarter, right? So could you just help us how much would H1 be, how much would H2 be in general, like a rough percentage 40/60 or how would it goes, sir?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. So I think broadly it would be somewhere around year-on-year with a slight variation of 2%, 3%. I think 37% to 40% could be the H1 and 60% to 63% would be H2.
Darshil Jhaveri
Okay, fair enough, fair enough, sir. I — sir, just wanted to know like previous participant asked that question, like on a consolidated basis, our Q2 growth has been around 11% of revenue. So just wanted to know, is that an impact of a higher base that we had in last year Q2? So what kind of run rate, a quarterly run rate can we see going forward? Like just wanted to pick your brain a bit on that, like so I think you were saying we’ll go as much as you’ve gone past that’s like around 25%, 30% and then we see a 11% figure. So is there a slowdown happening? Could you just elaborate a bit on that, sir?
Ashish Tomar
I think it would be a combination of higher base. Also the monsoons this year were significantly higher than last year. So that lead — led to disruption at sites and the execution could only be resumed after the monsoon subsided.
Darshil Jhaveri
So we lost a lot of working days in current Q2, that’s like a — okay.
Ashish Tomar
Yes. But I think that Q2 is the weakest due to the monsoon in our line of business.
Darshil Jhaveri
Oh, yeah. Fair enough, fair enough, sir. So now like from Q3, our execution has picked up steam, right, sir?
Ashish Tomar
Yes, yes.
Darshil Jhaveri
Yeah. And sir, just in general, like sir, so just wanted to know like now we are around INR230 crores to INR240 crores quarterly run rate. So in terms of scaling it further, like maybe not this year, next year you might be even higher. So is there any capacity constraint like how do we manage our manpower or machinery or how do you know what — is there some capacity constraint that we could have or is this like funding the only constraint that we have. So just like for higher growth, will we need any capex or what would be required? So if you touch the figure of INR300 crores, INR200 crores —
Ashish Tomar
There is no constraint of manpower or machinery. I think the increase is due to the increase in size of the projects. So the number of projects remain somewhat constant and as the quantum or the size of the projects and/or the orders increase, so that is reflected in the revenue.
Darshil Jhaveri
Okay, fair enough. And just a last question from my side, sir, like we bid it for like around INR6,400 crores order. So in general, like now what size of orders are we bidding? So we got like INR700 crores. So what size of orders are we getting for them? What is the general execution period timeline for that, sir?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. So — but the type of projects that we go after, the typical size is anywhere between INR200 crores to INR500 crores. So that will cover about 90% of the projects that we are interested in. And yeah.
Darshil Jhaveri
Okay, fair — fair enough, sir. And sir, just want to know like any guidance that we would have for FY ’26 in terms of revenue and EBITDA, sir.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah, I can only say that we will maintain the trajectory.
Darshil Jhaveri
Okay, okay. Fair enough, sir. Thank you so much, sir. All the best.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Meet Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Meet Jain
Hi, sir. My question is regarding our bid pipeline of INR470 crores. So wanted to understand how much is — how much — what is the quantum of the HAM projects in this? Are there any HAM projects in this?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah, I think there was a project of around 12 — around 12 — roll project a [Indecipherable] project was in there. Can you repeat that on the quantum? Quantum, I think it was about INR2,200 odd crores for the quantum.
Meet Jain
That is a HAM project?
Ashish Tomar
Yes.
Meet Jain
And on the other hand, I want to understand further on the HAM project, how is the margins of retention money kind of in this kind of projects.
Ashish Tomar
So — the executable period — the completion time for the majority of the projects is somewhere between two to three years, but it depends project on project — project-to-project. So the average you can take about 2.5 years is the execution time. And as far as the margins are considered, we bid for the projects with a specific margin in a mine and be it EPC or HAM, the margins while consider — bidding are same for us.
Meet Jain
Okay. And this order book — order book has on bid and the pipeline is majorly for water projects or it has some other infra projects as well as the bid pipeline.
Ashish Tomar
So I think the majority would be of water sector only.
Meet Jain
Motor sector. Okay, okay. That’s it from my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Bhudolia from Nardonolia Financial Service Limited. Please go ahead.
Abhishek Bhudolia
Sir, I wanted to know what will be the quantum of the road projects going forward because you say the majority the order book is for water project. So are we still on the guidance that 25% of our future revenues will be road project?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. So the majority of the business about 70% to 80% will continue to come from the waterside and the rest 20% to 30% may be from other infrastructure sectors, be it power, building or road.
Abhishek Bhudolia
Have you seen any traction in power — power sector?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah, we were able to secure one project in power distribution sector in Uttarakhand of about INR140 crores this year.
Abhishek Bhudolia
Okay, and what will be future fundraising plan you have? I mean earlier you said you didn’t have and then you went on UIP. So is there any plan you have now that any capex, any working capital requirement you would have for that, you would be raising funds to equity dilution?
Ashish Tomar
I think we secured that as an enabling document and currently we do not have a timeline fixed for that fund reason.
Abhishek Bhudolia
We’ll be able to manage all fund through internal liquid only? Hello?
Ashish Tomar
Hello, sir, I was not able to hear. Can you please repeat?
Abhishek Bhudolia
Sir, whatever projects we have for that we have the necessary cash with us or we’ve been taking up debt.
Ashish Tomar
Yes, for whatever projects that we currently have in hand, I think we can comfortably meet the cash flow requirement from our internal accruals.
Abhishek Bhudolia
Even for the projects we have bid?
Ashish Tomar
Yes, if we would — we have to maintain the growth rate that we have been delivering. For that, I think we are comfortable with the internal accruals. But if we are able to secure some HAM projects, then we might need some funding.
Abhishek Bhudolia
Okay, sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Hrishit Jhaveri from Pi Square Investment. Please go ahead.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Yes, sir. So we had informed you that you are planning to onboard a new CFO. Any update on that, sir or are you hiring a new CFO on the board?
Ashish Tomar
So we are scouting for a suitable candidate and we hope to hire an independent CFO as soon as possible and we’ll update you as soon as that happens.
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay. And sir, we’ve also forayed into the building and construction space. Any project wins or work we have started there or we are just — we have not currently started that segment.
Ashish Tomar
No, we are already executing a project in the building sector. It is a project of about 320 crores. RBI housing colony in Navi Mumbai, that plant is [Indecipherable].
Hrishit Jhaveri
Okay, sir. Okay, sir. Thank you. All the best.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Prathamesh Dhiwar from Tiger Assets. Please go ahead.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Yes, sir. Just wanted to know on the industry front. So for this financial year, how much did government have spent on water till now in FY ’25?
Ashish Tomar
So I won’t have those numbers right now present with me but I can see that budget planned for the expenditure in water sector for the period of 2021 to ’26 was somewhere in the range of INR5,00,000 crores. So I think that would come out to be somewhere between of around INR1,00,000 crores per year is spent by the government as planned.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Right. So till now there was like — can we expect around INR50,000 crores has been spent or much less have been spent till now?
Ashish Tomar
Sir, I would not be able to comment on that number but I think for the kind of work that we do there is enough work in the market and we have been able to secure the amount of work that we want to do year-on-year and we hope to maintain that going forward also.
Prathamesh Dhiwar
Okay, okay, sir, thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Nitesh Gupta, who is an individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Nitesh Gupta
Hello. Am you audible?
Ashish Tomar
Yes,
Operator
Yes, Mr. Nitish, please proceed.
Nitesh Gupta
Yeah. Hi, hi. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on this great set of numbers that you had. My question was in regards to what is the status you have on any particular that you have bid for? And the second question was on the line of geographical expansion, if you had any — because in the previous con call, you mentioned that we’d be able to secure more orders in the northeastern front of the country, so if you can advise on that.
Ashish Tomar
So as compared to the last quarter, we currently have been awarded an status in a project worth around INR700 crores in Kolkata for Kolkata Municipal Corporation. So this is our first order in the state of West Bengal.
Nitesh Gupta
Thank you so much. Sir, do you have an expansion plan in another cities or another areas as well?
Ashish Tomar
Yes, we have been continuously bidding for projects in Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh and other states as well in Karnataka. So by some luck or bad luck, we have not been able to secure any projects in those regions, but going forward, we hope to correct that soon.
Nitesh Gupta
Thank you so much. Just one last question before we — before I close this. Do you have any project in the desalination front as well because that is one of the areas closely related to what we see?
Ashish Tomar
So currently, sir, we do not have any desalination projects. A few years back, we were declared L1 for a desalination plant in Gujarat. But that project was scrapped due to — I think some permission of issues. So I think we will be able to bid for desalination projects, but currently we do not have any desalination projects in our order book.
Nitesh Gupta
Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Hassan Machale from who is an Individual Investor. Please proceed with your question.
Hassan Machale
Hello, good evening to everyone and congratulations to management for a good set of numbers. I’m a first time investor in this company, sir. My question is that as on 31st March ’24, there is a debtor of INR34 crores, which is disputed aging in two to three years. Can you please throw some light on that disputed debtor of INR34 crores?
Ashish Tomar
Yeah, for 34. I think that would be with respect to an arbitration that we currently have ongoing with UP general for a project that we executed in Narora near Bulandshahr. So we have won the arbitration. The arbitration has been in our favour and currently we are in the process of going — so currently we have gone to Allahabad high court for executing this order.
Hassan Machale
Okay, okay, sir, so no, no provision has been provided on this INR34 crores number?
Ashish Tomar
I think there is no need for provision that the award is already been awarded in our favour.
Hassan Machale
Okay.
Ashish Tomar
So still it is in for the contract that award was binding on both the parties.
Hassan Machale
Okay. Any expected timeline to realize this INR34 crores odd number?
Ashish Tomar
So we are hopeful that this matter is all soon, but —
Hassan Machale
Okay, fine. And sir, another question is that we have INR141 crores as a retention from customer as on March 24. Sir, this is my just a suggestion, if we can go for some banking product like bills discounting or factoring so that we can realize this money early and the factoring company will pay — will receive money from the customer. If that option is suitable, you can explore it. It is available in the market.
Ashish Tomar
Okay. And thank you for the suggestion and we will look into it.
Hassan Machale
Okay. Okay. And my next question is with respect to the order book. Sir, in past, any of the agency or any of the government have levied penalty for delay in execution or non-fulfillment of our performance. Any of the case?
Ashish Tomar
No, sir. No LD has been imposed on us for delay.
Hassan Machale
Okay. Perfectly fine. Perfectly fine. Sir, I’m very much happy to listen that you are entering into a new service line that is construction contract and projects rather than the water management. So just wanted to understand, this is because we wanted to diversify our offerings or this is because you are forcing to a water — water business is going to mature in some couple of years?
Ashish Tomar
No, sir, I think there is a huge scope for water business going forward in this country. We’ve already been maintaining this mix of executing works in other infrastructure sectors of 20% to 30% year-on-year since the start. Yeah. So this is not something new.
Hassan Machale
Sir, in this quarter two result, you have mentioned that from HAM project, you will start the annuity, right? So what would be the amount of annuity per quarter?
Ashish Tomar
Please let me just check those together.
Hassan Machale
Yeah, sure.
Operator
Thank you very much. The next question is from the line of Srinadh Reddy from Bandhan Bank. Please go ahead.
Srinadh Reddy
Hi, very good evening and congratulations on good set of numbers, sir. I just wanted to confirm like, is there any guidance was being given for the two years or three years from the group level? And also I just wanted to know the second question, at the group level, what are the debt we are sitting on? And third question is that you said you are acquiring that INR50 crores of the land parcel, eventually you’re going to dismantle the unit. But is that just to give a collateral security, are we blocking the INR50 crores as a capital? I’m sure that as a management, we would have done the better due diligence wanted to give. And the last question is that are we continue to maintain the growth of 21% and as well as EBITDA level at 25%.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. As far as the guidance is concerned I will not be able to give a specific number, but we — I — we’ve been maintaining that we are going to continue delivering the growth trajectory that we have been delivering since the last couple of years. And as far as the debt group level is concerned, I think the only debt that we currently have is for the one hand project. And apart from that, no other debt is on our books. And as far as the question regarding the collateral is concerned, so this is the nature of the business. The banks do prefer collateral to be in shape of property. So that’s why we have to go infrastructure payments.
Srinadh Reddy
Okay, okay. So is that are we getting from the business while you learn from the public demand you are you are getting from the right?
Ashish Tomar
So I can speak up a the sound is a little on lower side.
Srinadh Reddy
So I’m hoping that you are getting this land parcel from the pitting, right? So it’s a you are acquiring this properties.
Ashish Tomar
Yes, sir, we are acquiring this property was acquired from NCID.
Srinadh Reddy
Okay. From NCID.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah.
Srinadh Reddy
Okay. Sir, just one last question. So since like your earnings are improving and then marketing for steady statements which maintained at the industry level. So any discussions which are happening with the rating agency further any upgrade? Hello.
Ashish Tomar
I think that is in process and we will update.
Srinadh Reddy
Okay. One last question, sir, if other would have worked, I’m sorry, just bit late. So what is our current outstanding order book now as on today?
Ashish Tomar
So as on today, it’s at somewhere around INR2,350 odd crores, approximately, INR3,000 INR2,350 crores approximately and INR350 crores. Yeah. So that is the unexecuted amount, unexecuted amount.
Srinadh Reddy
Okay. And how much would have been — we have sir so far in the last — as on September 30th, how much would have been the quantum you would have there for the new project? Yes.
Ashish Tomar
Sir, it’s approximately INR6,470 crores pipeline — is in the pipeline. Yeah.
Srinadh Reddy
Okay. Anywhere, what would be the duration of your projects, sir, like assume the INR2,350 crores you have. So normally what is the tenure of this project?
Ashish Tomar
The majority of the work will be completed in the coming two years, two years with some work we are going past that.
Srinadh Reddy
So good, sir, I guess I’m sure that you are taking your company to the right path. I’m sure that gonna see because very few companies will get to see with such a good margin to maintain. I hope — I hope you take it to the next level this company. Wish you very all the best, sir. Thank you, sir.
Ashish Tomar
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Shriharsha KJ from — who is an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Shriharsha KJ
Like all my questions have been answered. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Ashish Tomar
Yeah. I would just like to say thank you everyone for your valuable time and we hope to deliver value and for the company — company and our investors. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much, sir. On behalf of Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.