Electronics Mart India Limited (NSE: EMIL) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Nov. 11, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Karan Bajaj — Chief Executive Officer
Premchand Devarakonda — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Devanshu Bansal — Analyst
Prafull Rai — Analyst
Omkar Chitnis — Analyst
Drashti Shah — Analyst
Viraj Shah — Analyst
Amish Kanani — Analyst
Rajiv Bharati — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Electronics Mart India Q2 and H1 FY25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Bajaj, CEO of Electronics Mart India Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Karan Bajaj — Chief Executive Officer
Thank you. Good evening and a very warm welcome to everybody present on the call. Along with me, I have Mr. Premchand Devarakonda, our Chief Financial Officer. We have uploaded our results and investor presentations for the quarter and half yearly end FY25 on the stock exchange and the Company’s website. Hope everyone had a chance to go through the same.
In H1 FY25, our revenue stood at INR3,361 crores, reflecting a growth of 13% year-on-year. Our EBITDA stood at INR238 crores against INR227 crores, also growing by 5% year-on-year, with EBITDA margins at 7.1%. In Q2, heavy rains in South India have impacted demand, but we anticipated that the consumer spend will rebound, as conditions normalize. Additionally, Q2 tends to be a softer period for electronic retailer, and this year, we face additional challenges as well.
As mentioned, with South cluster, especially Hyderabad and Vijayawada, our key markets experienced heavy rainfalls, causing reduced footfalls and weakened demand. Air conditioner sales were impacted by the extended monsoon. However, the category also demonstrated resilience, as a consistent performer, maintaining steady sales for the first half of the year and showing a growth of 46% in Q2 FY25, a growth of 24% Y-on-Y.
Large appliances contributed to maintain their spot, as the largest revenue contributor. For H1 FY25, large appliances contributed 46% to the revenue; mobile phones contributed 42%; and small appliances, IT and other categories contributed 12% collectively.
In first half of FY25, we continue to expand our store footprint. We have opened 18 new stores. Our store count, as of September 2024 stood at a total of 177 stores, out of which 164 stores are the multi-brand stores, 13 are exclusive brand outlets. We are present in 70 cities across 6 states currently. In NCR region, we have reached up to 25 stores. We remain confident in our full year guidance of adding 25 to 30 new stores. Going forward, our strategy would be to further strengthen our presence in Delhi NCR cluster and the existing market at the same time. As we prepare for the upcoming season, we expect consumer behavior to revolve with an increased focus on premium electronics.
Moving towards working capital, we typically see an increase in inventory during the September end in preparation for the festive period. As of September ’24, our inventory day stood at 62. Going forward, our strategy will be to focus on optimizing inventory levels to drive higher cash flow conversions, which will further strengthen our balance sheet.
Same-store growth for H125 — for H1 of FY25 came at 6%. And I’m also pleased to report that our North Cluster has remained EBITDA positive for the three consecutive quarters. We — and we expect this improving going ahead. Our goal is to steadily improve margins in the North cluster, aligning them with the performance of the South cluster.
As India continues to move up the ladder in terms of GDP per capita growth, the increased disposable income is fueling great demands for premium consumer durables and electronics such as air conditioners and washing machines, refrigerators. With increased purchasing power, more households can afford these products, transition from aspirational purchase in the cities in many urban and semi urban areas. Additionally, a growing middle-class population, coupled with improved access to financing options and innovative product offering is expected to significantly boost sales in these three categories, driving further growth going forward.
At EMIL, we strategically partner with top brands and offer a wide range of products, positioning us to serve a broader base of customers. As India’s GDP per capita continues to rise, we have been witnessing increased demand for high-quality consumer durables with a noticeable shift towards the top five brands in key segments.
Our comprehensive product selection enables us to meet this growth demand. While our focus on trusted brand drives customer satisfaction, this powerful combination of strong brand partnership and broad product offering position us for significant growth going forward.
With this, I request Mr. Premchand Devarakonda, our CFO, to update you on the financial performance. Thank you, all.
Premchand Devarakonda — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, Karan. Good evening, and warm welcome to all the participants.
Let me begin with the Q2 FY25 financial overview. Our revenues for the quarter stood at INR1,386 crores, as against INR1,303 crores in Q2 FY24 with a growth of 6% year-on-year. EBITDA for Q2 FY25 stood at INR84 crores, as against INR97 crores, a degrowth of 13% year-on-year. EBITDA margins for Q2 FY25 stood at 6.1%, as against — as compared to 7.4% in Q2 FY24. Pre Ind-AS EBITDA for Q2 FY25 stood at INR54 crores with a margin of 3.9%. PAT for Q2 FY25 stood at INR25 crores, as against INR37 crores, a degrowth of 34% year-on-year.
Now moving on to the H1 FY25, our revenues for H1 FY25 stood at INR3,361 crores, as against INR2,987 crores in H1 FY24, a growth of 13% year-on-year. EBITDA for H1 FY25 stood at INR238 crores, as against INR227 crores, a growth of 5% year-on-year. EBITDA margin for H1 FY25 stood at 7.1%, as compared to 7.6% in H1 FY24. Pre Ind-AS EBITDA for H1 FY25 stood at INR178 crores with a margin of 5.3%.
Same-store sales growth for H1 FY25 was 6%. PAT for H1 FY25 stood at INR97 crores, as against INR98 crores, a decline of 1% [Phonetic], which is marginal. For H1 FY25, sales — sales [Phonetic] SSG, I would say, SSG rate goes to — rate stood at 6%. ROCE and ROE on an annualized basis for H1 FY25 stood at 17.8% and 13.2% respectively.
The working capital days for — as on 30th September ’24 stood at 66 days. The gross debt to net-debt time to equity stood at 0.4 times, and our net debt to EBITDA stood at 1.09 times. Pre Ind-AS cash flow from operations stood at INR260 crores.
With this brief presentation, may I now open the floor for questions. Thank you one and all.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] We have first question from the line of Devanshu Bansal from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Devanshu Bansal
Yes, sir. Hi, thanks for taking my question. First question, Karan, is there has been some growth moderation in Q2 after the very good Q1. You alluded to some sort of operating challenges for that. I just wanted to check, has there been some postponement of sales into the current festive? So if you could just help us understand how have been the trends so far in Q3?
Karan Bajaj
Okay. Hi, Devanshu. So Devanshu, so definitely, if you see historically also Q2 is always a lower quarter compared to Q1 and Q3. So Q3 becoming a festive period quarter with Diwali and Dussehra is there versus no big festival, no big product launches, you know, during the Q2. So that definitely impacts. And then moderate rainfall versus the heavy rainfall, which we experienced this time in a lot of geographies that we are present in definitely impacts a lot of footfall. So that is not like the only reason, but one of the key reasons for the lower growth, I would say.
And definitely, what is happening is that trends over the years, whereas the festive period become like a go-to market for consumers to come and buy because there was a heavy discount, cashback, and offerings by all retailers and companies. So definitely, yes, somebody buying a product during the last week of September usually would postpone it by a week or so, because this year, if you see, we started the festival on the 2nd of October with the first Navaratri on the 3rd October. So that definitely that kind of postponed buying is always there.
So Q3 has been good, no doubt on that. The festive period was — there were no struggles in the festive period. But then how the Q3 pans out during November and December is major — majorly important because usually, you would see a little dip in sales post the festive period once all the brands and cashback offers would get reduced starting this week. So then you would see that impact coming in there as well.
But overall, no complaints, so this was — there has always been a quarter, where there is one-off a quarter, where the numbers go down a little bit because of a lot of external factors. But as expected, Q1 did well as expected. Diwali did well. So that is in line with the numbers that you would expect. And then you have a lot of cost involved in running operations, especially for new stores that get launched during that quarter or new stores that are getting ready. So there are lot of capex involved, a lot of manpower already onboarded. So all of those things definitely bring down the margins a little bit.
But all is under control and in alignment of what we had planned for the new store opening expansion season — for the Diwali season that we had planned because we had to — from inventory perspective also, we had to buy out a lot of stocks in the last week of September and that was the time when iPhone 16 also got launched.
So there were a lot of reasons that we had to increase our inventory. That’s why you would say 62 days of inventory on the books because first week of October itself would be the beginning of the season starting from Navaratri. So we had to get all the stocks ready in our warehouses. So you would see that cost also going up a little bit, yeah.
Devanshu Bansal
Understood. Karan, just qualitatively, if you could indicate between Navaratri and Diwali, which is a 30-day period, like-to-like this year versus last year, how have been the trends? Any qualitative or quantitative number that you can throw here?
Karan Bajaj
So Navaratri and Diwali, obviously, we will not be able to give you an exact number on that, but the flavor has been good, all positive. So there was — so it has been in line with what we saw historically on the 15th of August this year, what we saw during other big festival days. So Navaratri and Diwali and Dussehra, Dhanteras have all panned out to our expectation. So there is no complaints there. In fact, few regions that you saw being flat like, for example, the Hyderabad cluster being flat during Q2 has also performed really well during Diwali. Though, definitely, it is not that high growth from that region, but the base been very high. We still saw good growth coming in from that region as well.
Devanshu Bansal
Understood. Lastly, Karan, I wanted to check the company has done a good job with no major increase in working capital despite 18 new store additions in first half. Typically, in the industry, we see peak inventory levels at year end right, because of all those air conditioners stocking that we have to do to sort of fulfill the season’s demand. So I just wanted to check what is your expectation on debt level for the company at year end, right? So we may have to sort of invest in the inventory. So any thoughts on that?
Karan Bajaj
Devanshu, just to actually detail out your question a little further. So more than year end on 31st March, definitely, you will see higher — not higher debt levels, but higher inventory levels panning out because of the cooler, AC, and refrigerator category being in demand during that particular season of summer. But if I give a comparative to our Q3 numbers, then you would see a much drastic difference in terms of the number of inventory days and debt levels both panning out on 31st of December.
So you know because it has already been — so whatever inventory get planned out for Diwali already been sold. So we’re not carrying a lot of inventory currently with us, except few categories, which is a part of the plan that we have, where we have additional offers. So we usually would end up buying a little more stocks for this quarter as well, where it will support us on the margins. So apart from that, everything is in line. And the debt level also will be in line. It will not — historically, what you would see right now comparatively, it will keep on going down, not drastically, but a little bit going forward as well.
Devanshu Bansal
Okay. So even after these, 12, 13 more additions in H2, you do not see any significant increase in debt levels, right?
Karan Bajaj
Yes. Yes.
Devanshu Bansal
Understood. Fair enough, Karan. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for taking my questions.
Karan Bajaj
Thank you, Devanshu.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Prafull Rai from Arjav Partners. Please go ahead.
Prafull Rai
Yeah. I just have one question. We have guided for a 20% kind of a revenue growth for the year and that is what a general guidance we have been giving. Do you think we’ll be able to meet that kind of a guidance given the sales in the festive period?
Karan Bajaj
Hi, Prafull. So Prafull, yeah, we were looking at a 15% to 18% growth. That is what we’ve been commenting out in the market every time we meet someone. So 15% to 18% is what we comfortably achieve. That is not a problem.
Prafull Rai
So should we able to make up for the sort of a low growth in Q2 in the rest of the year, right?
Karan Bajaj
Yeah. So if you look at the numbers, where — see what guidance we have given out or what numbers would pan out, we are more or less at half — 50% mark of it anyways. So we don’t worried about how you know what is being behind us versus what is going to come in future. So Diwali went well. Things are under control.
Now, the only delta that you will see in the higher number would be by the end of Q4, where summer sets in early, say as early as second or third week of March, and we’ll have that additional, say, INR100 crore, INR150 odd crores of sales happening during the last 10, 15 days of summer. Apart from that, you will not see a major change. So there’ll be a delta of INR100 crores, INR150 crores not more than that.
Prafull Rai
And secondly, on the margin side, see, when we started rolling out in NCR region, we saw some kind of a margin dip because of expenses involved, but now it looks like we are stabilizing there. So will you see some kind of operating leverage playing out for us?
Karan Bajaj
So, Prafull just to answer your question, what will happen is, right now, we’re at 25 stores. We are adding up six stores in the next 20 days, 40 days. So what will happen is because of the denominator being lower, additional seven, eight stores together adding up in the next, say, next couple of months or a month or so, it will automatically bring down the margin little bit. But we are looking at that region to stabilize.
We have to give it a little more time, but we are looking at that region to give us a similar kind of margin at least for the existing stores or the seven, eight stores that we opened two years back. So those kind of stores will start giving us almost similar number in the next 12 months or so. So we’re looking at that region growing in terms of giving us a leverage on our balance sheet in the next 12 months, 14 months, nothing before that.
Prafull Rai
So you will start seeing some kind of inch up happening there in terms of the operating profit?
Karan Bajaj
Absolutely. So we’re not looking at a loss there right now. So that is what is, you know, more alarming if that would be the case. So right now, we’re not looking at anything in the last three quarters going forward, even this quarter did well. So looking at that number, we are quite confident that we don’t need to worry about that region and get stabilizes from here on.
Prafull Rai
Okay. Thanks a lot. I think this is what I want to ask.
Karan Bajaj
Thank you, Prafull.
Prafull Rai
Yeah. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Omkar Chitnis from Trade Brains Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Omkar Chitnis
Thank you for giving the opportunity. Sir, I have a couple of questions. From last two years, I’m observing that from Q1, FY23, net sales per store is reducing. In Q1 FY23, the net sales per store was INR12 crores, at presently INR7.2 crores. Is there any rectification action we are taking for this?
Karan Bajaj
Yeah. So, Omkar actually you pointed out the right question, where I think the right comparison would be that what are the additions of stores that we add up on square feet that we add up in that particular quarter or that year. So last two years, as you said correctly, we’ve been expanding drastically, and we’ve added new clusters, and we’ve added new space at a much higher rate than what we’ve been doing in the previous years or quarters.
So that is why you would see that the average ticket size or the revenue per square foot would be little lower compared to our previous quarters. But if you look at the actual number of the sales generated from the existing outlets that we are there are the mature stores or the stores getting matured, which we opened in the last 12 months to 14 months, those two have been doing really well. And then we see that number, comparative number. But in the presentation and in the public market, you would actually have out total — total store count versus the average per square foot revenue or the revenue per store generated.
So that is why because the number of store count increases drastically, you would see a drop in the productivity per store. But we can give you a complete breakup of historical data as well, whereas you can compare it at a much detailed level, where you will understand that the clusters that we’ve opened stores, which are matured, or 12 months or 14 months older stores have also grown by 18%, 20%.
Omkar Chitnis
Okay. Understood. Sir, as you mentioned, there are 177 stores, as of Q2 FY25. How many stores are in profitable as of now, sir?
Karan Bajaj
Sorry, how many stores are in profit?
Omkar Chitnis
Yes.
Karan Bajaj
So Prafull — so, Omkar ji, so the thing is that the seven stores that we opened last quarter, out of which you can say that these stores will take another — all of these seven stores will be operational profitable because they are in the existing cluster itself. So these stores are all profitable. Only I would say one store that we estimated for it not to be profitable is one in Hyderabad, one in the mall, which we would expecting it to go into red in the next 12 months, 14 months. So that is why we winded up that store. That is the only store that we’ve shut this financial year till date.
And I would not say that any store is in red, operational breakeven [indecipherable] store, but the only thing that if you open a store last month or in last 45 days, it takes up a little time for it to get matured, right? Apart from that, no other store in any region that we operate are in red. Only how it would — how we would defer it is that few stores might make a blended EBITDA of say, store level EBITDA of say 10%, some would be at 11.5%, some would be at 6.5%. So that is how the math would work out. But Delhi NCR region on a whole, if you see, is a newer region, where the EBITDA margin would be much lower compared to our Southern cluster.
Operator
Thank you so much, sir. I believe the line for the participant got disconnected.
Karan Bajaj
Okay.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Drashti from Thinqwise. Please go ahead.
Drashti Shah
Hi, sir, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, can you help us understand what is the unit economics of the older stores that we have and how do we think about the profitability of those stores? What would be the growth of those stores? What would be the wage inflation and opex growth in those stores? And of the 177 stores that we have, what proportion would be the older stores? And how are we thinking about the newer stores? Thanks.
Karan Bajaj
So Drashti, how it would work out is that we would look at a square foot average of 10,000 square feet in the mature stores. So that is an average square foot that you take as a benchmark. And then, so these stores would — for the existing customers because most of the mature stores would be in Hyderabad alone and few of them in the Telangana upcountry market in Andhra Pradesh, in Vijayawada, Vishakhapatnam and Tirupati. These are the older stores that we opened, say, five years, seven years back.
So these kind of stores, which are in a cluster, where they are already mature to say INR50 crores, INR70 crores, INR100 crores, these kind of stores would grow at a much lower pace compared to the newer stores that we opened in the last 24 months or 36 months. So the newer store that we would open recently would pan out to grow at, say, 18%, 20%, 30% depending on the lineage of the store.
But the mature stores, especially in the classes, where we are cannibalized by opening a newer store nearby, those stores would look at a growth rate of 1% or 2%, 3%, not more than that until unless there is a new technology change or new addition on the floor for new technology products. But these stores are all matured at say, INR70 crores, INR80 crores on an average. So that way the EBITDA margin for these particular stores would look at, say, 9%, 10% kind of a number. And properties that we own, where there is no cost of rental for the mature stores, then you look at 1%, 1.5% higher than the rented out stores. That is how the differentiation would be.
The newer stores would start panning out in the — Southern cluster would start panning out at 5%, 6% initially for the year one and then eventually stabilize at 6%, 7%, 8% going forward in terms of the store level EBITDA margins. And the growth rate year one, year two, year three would pan out to let’s say, 50% depending on — for the year one depending on what quarter or what month [Phonetic] we open. Year two will stabilize, let’s say, 30%, 35%. Year three then would be at around 20%, 25%.
And then from there on year five onwards, it would be at 7%, 8%, 10% kind of a number because these pockets are in Tier 3, Tier 4 towns. So you will not see a big cluster of market and a big growth coming up there at the same time. So it is all organic there. Whereas in terms of the mature stores today out of 177 stores, you could count around 80 stores being under 24 months and the rest of the stores, especially the MBO stores are all matured over 24 months.
Drashti Shah
So is it fair to say that it takes typically two years for a store to mature? And after that the growth expected in those stores would be just 1%, 2%?
Karan Bajaj
No, no, no. So it depends. So like for example, if we cannibalize the stores, for example, if I have a store in Hyderabad, which is 10 years old, which does say INR100 odd crores, and we cannibalize the store because it can’t take up more people than INR100 crores in turnovers for big days, there is a lot of spillage and all your parking issues or a lot of those things.
So when we cannibalize or we see that customers can’t travel three or four kilometers or we need to open one more store in a similar cluster, then when — then that’s when we cannibalize. And once we cannibalize that store, then the growth rate is single digit there. But in case, there is a market, where the growth is [Indecipherable] the store is INR70 crores, INR80 crores and still growing at 10%. So that is a different store.
So where we don’t cannibalize it, there you’ll see a higher growth even for the mature store. But for the stores, which are over INR100 crores and all, we usually would open few stores in the same territory because there is a lot of spillage, or there is a lot of leakage during big days, weekends, summer, Diwali, Dussehra, Dhanteras. So that is how we would do. Those stores will look at a number of 1%, 2% kind of a thing, which are 10-year, 15-year old stores.
Drashti Shah
Understood. Sir, why I’m asking this is because what I’ve seen is in the value growth that we’ve seen in our stores has not been more than 2%, 3%, which is why I’m trying to understand how the mature stores grow because volume growth, I assume, would be hardly anything in those mature stores.
Karan Bajaj
If I give you an example for quarter two, if you have seen INR100 crores growth on quarter-versus-quarter, that is quarter two last year versus quarter two this year, out of the INR100 crores, the majority of the growth has come in — see, the mature stores, which are over three years or five years have contributed to a flattish number, say, a 0.5% or 1% kind of a growth rate. But whereas the stores, which we opened last 24 months have contributed to almost 80% of that growth. Whereas the eight stores that we opened up in that quarter has contributed to a total value of almost INR15 crores approximately of the INR100 crores growth [Phonetic].
Drashti Shah
Understood, sir. Sir, in these matured stores, wage inflation would be 7%, 8%. So is it fair to say that these are EBITDA margin declining stores perennially or how do you think about that?
Karan Bajaj
Yeah. So Drashti, in fact, our industry now, if you look at a lot of the major categories that we deal with or the brands that we deal with, we don’t see a price increase. In fact, price for air conditions have gone down by 2% or 3%. Air coolers gone down. Kitchen appliances have gone down. Refrigerators, television, washing machine, the average pricing has gone down by 7%, 8% actually not increased, the other way around.
Only apart from one or two brands. In fact, iPhone this year also got launched at a lower price than last year. So if you actually see the pricing for iPhone 16 Pro/Pro Max, which got launched in the last week of September, the pricing for the high-end models are down by INR10,000 compared to last year. So if you see instead of inflation, there is a deflation of pricing, especially for high-end premium products, where like a 75-inch or an 85-inch, which was priced at INR2.5 lakh, INR3 lakh is at affordable at a price of INR1.50 lakh. INR1.75 lakh this year.
Drashti Shah
No, sir. I was asking about the employee cost increase, the wage inflation.
Karan Bajaj
Employee cost.
Drashti Shah
Yeah.
Karan Bajaj
Yeah. So employee — so if you see — that’s what-if you see this quarter as well, that was a major hit that we had to take in our expense, the rental and the expense on manpower, housekeeping, and security all put together, we would see a higher cost involved there. So that is always there. So you would always look at a 5% or a 4% kind of an increase in that cost every year. So you can’t avoid that.
Drashti Shah
Understood. And sir, in your opening remarks, you mentioned that you’ve seen a noticeable shift towards top five brands. So what would be the contribution currently? I think it was 65% somewhere last year. So what is the contribution of top five brands this first half?
Karan Bajaj
Yeah. So it would be around a similar range, but acceptance of these brands is going up day-by day. So even in our Tier 3, 4 towns, the acceptance of say, an Apple device or a Samsung television. So the customers even in entry level, say, in a direct cool refrigerator or semi-automatic washing machine, air conditioners. So now people are preferring for bigger brands and better brands across categories.
Drashti Shah
Despite so many newer brands coming in, people are preferring the top five brands is what you’re trying to say?
Karan Bajaj
Yes, yes, yes.
Drashti Shah
Understood. Thank you so much, sir. This is helpful.
Karan Bajaj
Thank you, Drashti.
Operator
Thank you, We have next question from the line of Viraj Shah from Shah Investors [Phonetic]. Please go ahead with your question.
Viraj Shah
Hi, sir. I just had one question. Sir, within which segment we have seen outperformance in Q2, any uptick in washing machine category because of rainy season?
Karan Bajaj
So usually, you would expect that the monsoon would bring us higher sales in dryers and washing machine, but this year, it was more or less flattish or little negative, I would say, down by 1%. Even refrigerators and washing machine, both categories were negative this quarter. So that was a surprise for us, but then a lot of reasons for that. The whole industry was actually down by a higher number in that category. But then especially in Hyderabad, where our base was quite high for washing machine, as a category, where we saw almost 1% dip in you know, from the numbers in last year.
Viraj Shah
Okay. Understood. Thank you, sir.
Karan Bajaj
Yeah. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Amish Kanani from Novice Investment Managers [Phonetic]. Please go ahead.
Amish Kanani
Yeah. Hi, sir. Sir, if you can give us some flavor of the growth on one, which is a slow growth in the quarter and a slightly better growth post the quarter in the Diwali season within mobile, large appliances versus small appliances, which one was a slowing area and slow growth area in Q2 and which is the kind of say area or category, which has picked up post Q2, where this Diwali season is looking fine for us. Thanks.
Karan Bajaj
Great. So Amish ji, not only Q2, but last six months, eight months, the major — the usual the growth that we’ve seen in the last five years, majority has come in from mobile phone, as a category, being the highest growth category individually. [Foreign Speech] slowed down here, mobile. Mobile, which was growing at 20%, 25% in the last five years, now we see a 10%, 12%, 14% kind of a growth only. So that has reduced a little bit.
But apart from that large appliances have been a little flat. Televisions have seen decent growth. Laptops have seen a decent growth. Kitchen appliances have seen a decent growth. Other categories have seen like audio, specialized audio, you know, all of those things, hot chimneys, those category have seen a decent growth. But overall, in the mobile phone, the last five years, it is a growth rather, especially after the 4G, 5G rollout, that growth we’ve not seen in the last six months. So that is a little slower compared to what our estimations on mobile, as a category will be.
Amish Kanani
Okay. And that has kind of picked up post — post Q2, you’re saying there is some sign of growth coming back.
Karan Bajaj
Yeah [Indecipherable] nothing. Diwali usually is a mix of all product categories, and it had the majority of the new launches during this period as well. So usually, mobile sales are driven with a lot of factors, especially new launches, new technology changes or some new features in the phone, like AI is a new thing that everybody is talking about now and AI starting at INR30,000, INR40,000 in basic phone also has become a good feature for it to sell better.
So the adaptation of AI in the coming times or some better features coming in will definitely have that improvement in purchase of new devices. So mobile phone as a category runs on two major conditions. One is either a really good feature or a new technology change or the upgrade cycle has to get better, whereas upgrade cycle there might be a little delay. And especially with the premium phones and the better quality of phones, we will see the upgrade cycle being a little slower compared to the historic period of 12 months, 14 months, yeah. It has increased by a little more — higher period this time,
Amish Kanani
Sure, sir. And sir, the second question is about NCR region versus Telangana and AP region. As you know, I understand, there we have relatively newer stores, and you would expect to pick up. Any discernible trend change in, say, say similar two year to three-year old store in NCR versus Telangana and AP region? Or it’s — is the NCR, as a region as profitable as South region for us?
Karan Bajaj
So right now, firstly, the most important task there was to understand the market and deliver a similar store throughput. So we are quite confident that first we achieve a benchmark of INR25 crores, INR30 crores in year one in the NCR region. That is what we are looking at right now. And the productivity for the first set of few stores that we opened up in the last 24 months or last 18 months, which are matured now, those stores are in line with what we would see in the Southern cluster.
But Delhi, as a whole, as a brand being very new there for us, we wanted to give it a little more time for it to start delivering us the numbers. It will be too high of expectation from our group to understand within the span of say, three years or so, we start delivering a similar number that we do in South, whereas the brand is quite new, the customer preferences are a little different there.
So all those things were a learning curve for us in the first 12 months, and we try to fix them and try to grow from them. We see a positive growth coming in there. So we will look at very small base are done, now that growing at 40%, 50%, 60% is still a smaller number for us. We would like to create a bigger base in the going time in that region as well and start dominating that market at least with a bigger market share than what it is currently at.
Amish Kanani
Yeah. Sure. Thanks.
Karan Bajaj
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] We have a question from Rajiv Bharati from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Rajiv Bharati
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, regarding this North cluster, so for the quarter, we will be having EBITDA pre Ind-AS loss, right?
Karan Bajaj
Sorry, I didn’t get you?
Rajiv Bharati
For the quarter, for Q2 at pre Ind-AS levels in the North cluster, there should be a loss, right?
Karan Bajaj
Pre Ind-AS level, exactly right, Rajiv. So there would be a decline in it because when we calculate the EBITDA post Ind-AS, the interest, the depreciation or the rental would get marked post EBITDA. So there you would see a little decline there compared to the previous quarter. But like looking at this quarter because the productivity also was a little lower compared to the previous quarter of Q1 or Q4. So then automatically — then automatically you will look at — you will look at a lower number there. So that is true. What you said is true. But then spanning out for quarter three, quarter four, we are in line with our expectation of being positive in that region as well.
Rajiv Bharati
So when I compare this against, let’s say, your South cluster, where your — you mentioned that SSG is in low-single digits, there we have still seen we kind of held ground on the cost of retailing bit and the margins are largely stable. So this is — you think it’s purely the rental line item, which is creating that. Above that, everything else is…
Karan Bajaj
So Rajiv, what happens is that see, like, for example, there are almost seven, eight properties, which are not operational in Delhi, as a region, for which we’ve already capitalized a lot of expenses. Their interest has been booked because we bought these properties out and they’re quite expensive property. So [Foreign Speech] the cost is higher than the actual operational cost that we — without operation that we are bearing that cost on the balance sheet with the existing operational stores.
So the non-operational stores are also very high in numbers versus the operational stores. So like in Hyderabad or in AP, Telangana region, when you open 130, 140 stores, even if three, four stores are getting made, the cost doesn’t impact our margins drastically, whereas in the North cluster, the base itself for operational stores is very low versus what is getting under construction today are almost 40% of the same base. So then the cost also gets negated towards the operational stores.
Rajiv Bharati
Sure. And this — because your North — the South cluster is largely static, this 70 basis point drop in gross margin, it can be purely because of the mix of this North or let’s say, in South also, we have seen a decline as well?
Karan Bajaj
I would — Rajiv, I would not attribute it to North, South or a particular category mix. So if you see, it was a one-time quarter, where you would see that kind of a dip in gross GP, whereas the product mix more or less was in line what we expected. The mobile phone usually in this quarter go up a little bit. The productivity from other categories were also same.
So we do not see those majorly, only large appliances like refrigerator and washing machines saw a little degrowth there. But apart from that, not major concern, where we would try to tweak something or be worried about something. I think it was just one-off quarter, where the margin got declined. Actually, if you see the whole of half year also, it is down by 0.3%, 0.4%. So not much of a concern area as well. Yeah.
Rajiv Bharati
So the only bit is as and when North clusters proportion increases, the gross margin would not dip. Is it safe to assume that?
Karan Bajaj
Not really because on a — see on a INR14,000 crores base [Phonetic], the contribution from North cluster was only hardly INR80 crores. So [Foreign Speech].
Rajiv Bharati
Got it. Yeah. That’s all from my side. Thanks a lot, Karan.
Operator
Thank you very much. We have next question from the line of Omkar Chitnis from Trade Brains Private Limited. Please proceed, sir.
Omkar Chitnis
Sir, previously, I got disconnected because of network. My question was how many stores are in profitable as of now?
Karan Bajaj
So, Omkar Ji, so actually, I didn’t know that your call had dropped. Sorry for that. So Omkar Ji, so if I — if you look at how the only the store that we opened in the last six months or so, only those stores will be starting off doing operational breakeven, whereas your cost for rentals and all would get covered at 4%, 5% EBITDA margin kind of a thing.
But overall, if you see, there are no stores in red, only it’s one store that we expected it to get in red in the next 12 months or so, which was in a mall because of the rental escalation going up drastically, we have shut that store. Apart from that, no other store of ours is into red, where we can — we are burning money to run that store. So we don’t run stores in that manner. So all of our stores are positive.
Only Delhi, as a cluster or North, as a cluster definitely is much lower in terms of profitability today because a lot of other expenses are getting added to that cluster, where the base itself is so low. Apart from that, no other store, no other cluster is in red or no, I would say, that no other cluster is in a worry of our concern, where we have to start shutting stores or looking into the profitability of those stores.
Omkar Chitnis
Okay. Understood.
Karan Bajaj
The margins would differ, like the mature stores in Hyderabad would give you 8%, 9%, 10% kind of an EBITDA, for example. The newer stores will start giving you 2%, 3%, 4%. So [Foreign Speech] blended would be at 8.5%, 8.1%, 8.2% kind of a number.
Omkar Chitnis
Okay. Okay. Sir, as you plan 25, 30 stores going ahead, so are you planning for any QIP to fund those stores?
Karan Bajaj
Sorry, can you repeat your question?
Omkar Chitnis
As you’ve guided for 20 to 30 stores for FY25 going ahead, so are you planning for any QIP for that?
Karan Bajaj
No, no, no, no. No, nothing of that sort, Omkar ji. So right now, with our internal cash flows and the lines of debt available with us, we are quite comfortable for the expansion. There is another INR20-odd crores left for our work capex money also that we had raised during our IPO back in ’22. So that also another INR20 odd crores left with us for our further expansion of capex. So money is there. So no worries on that.
Omkar Chitnis
Okay, sir. My last question is on the Slide 6, I saw that there is zero sales from online. From last two years, we are not making sale from online. Our competitors are going in online aggressively to tap a smaller market. What is our plan for that, sir?
Karan Bajaj
So, Omkar ji, historically also, we never were a direct seller for our consumers online as well. We never used to sell from our own portal. So what we — what you see online is on the marketplace of Amazon, Flipkart. So usually only when a brand that we sell like a Samsung, LG or Sony or Apple, whoever it is, if only if they authorize us to sell something online, we sell online. So not that we sell online throughout the year, or we sell a lot of products. So there are hardly any listings of online category, and that is only after the approvals of the bigger brands. So we don’t intend to go online and sell online until and unless they ask us to do that.
Omkar Chitnis
Okay. What is about tapping the Tier 2, Tier 3 cities, sir?
Karan Bajaj
Sorry, can you repeat your question, Tier 2?
Omkar Chitnis
How are you tapping Tier 2, Tier 3 cities audience?
Karan Bajaj
Yeah. So with our stores, so definitely our — so — if you see our stores, which almost — almost 50% are in Tier 2, 3 and 4 towns as well. So in a cluster, where we are growing right now, we would see good growth coming in from those clusters, but probably a different strategy, a little more smaller store size, a little more aggressive or differential marketing there because not necessarily that print and radio would work in every cluster there as well. So all of those things are taken care of, and we see good demand coming in from those areas as well.
Omkar Chitnis
Okay. But as you mentioned, strategy sir, in the case of exclusive brand outlets, are you going for any ownership and operation model type?
Karan Bajaj
No, sir. So exclusive brand outlets will be only for brand like Samsung, LG, Apple. So only after they would suggest us to open in any of the regions, we would do that, but that is not a key growth strategy for us going-forward as well. Probably you might see one or two stores opening up under the EBO format. Apart from that, we don’t intend to open EBO formats at all.
Omkar Chitnis
Okay, sir. Thank you, sir.
Karan Bajaj
Thank you, Omkar.
Operator
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments.
Karan Bajaj
I would like to thank all of you for joining the call. I hope that we were able to answer all your questions. And for any other queries, you may get in touch with us or Mr. Deven Dhruva from SGA. We will be happy to address all your queries. Thank you, once again.
Operator
[Operator Closing Remarks]