Dishman Carbogen Amcis Ltd (NSE: DCAL) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Aug. 13, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Stephan Fritschi — Chief Executive Officer
Paolo Armanino — Chief Operating Officer
Harshil Dalal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Subrata Sarkar — Analyst
Smit Shah — Analyst
Meet Mehta — Analyst
Nawaz — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q1 FY26 Earnings Conference Call of Dishman Carbogen Amcis Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on attached to phone. Please note that this conference has been recorded. Management of the company is represented by Mr. Stepan Frenchie, CEO Carbojan, Ms. Mr. Paolo Armanio, COO India. Mr. Harshal Dalal, Global CFO and sorry for the inconvenience and delayed.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Stepin Frenchy from Dismanu Carbon MC Ltd. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Stephan Fritschi — Chief Executive Officer
Thank you very much. Welcome everybody to today’s investor call to talk about the Q1 financial results. As it was said, I’m also happy to welcome Hafil Dalal, our Global Chief Finance Officer and Paolo Armanino, COO at Tishman in India. Before we go into the financials, I would like to give you some business updates followed by Paolo. Afterwards, I quickly and briefly cover our subsidiaries in Karbage and emphasis starting with Saint Beausire, that’s the French subsidiary dealing with drug product. So it’s very good news that we got the GMP certification for the external warehouse. That’s the second certificate we got about GMP from the French authorities.
As I said last time, that GMP certification is a prerequisite to get customer business in. And what we see from the market from customers, it’s a positive response to this news. We get more and more projects awarded. The request for proposal has increased and also our win rate has increased. So everything is on a positive side. The business picks up there in the French subsidiary. The other site which got a GMP certificate is in Shanghai. This was earlier this year already communicated. Also this is a door opener for our Chinese market. This is where our focus is now with the Chinese subsidiary.
On one side we would like to get and attract more Chinese customers. That’s why we increased the sales force there. And on the other side we also tightened collaboration with our Indian friends and colleagues here in Dishman. So this is also positive. In Switzerland the operations run as expected, smoothly, no major issues. There is a strong emphasis on small scale hypo activities. They are connected and related to our drug linker business. So there it’s a nice development, capacity is good and well utilized. This is part and in addition of the expansion project we discussed last time.
With our Japanese partner. So there the expansion, the engineering project proceeds also as planned and. And we are on track. Generally spoken, the sales activities is one of the focuses we committed, we are committed to. We have increased the sales force and we are going to continue this specifically in the US for those in Japan and China, with also special focus on Europe, which is in our strategy plan that we want to distribute our focus not solely on the US market but spread it across the globe. We see also a positive effect here that the order income has picked up and we are convinced it continues like that on a more internal path.
We have strengthened our collaboration with the digital subsidiaries Zimbabwe and Naroda. We have multiple big scale projects in collaboration and also in discussion with our partners here in India. Some are standalone activities, others are in collaboration with Carbogen. Part of it is also the active life cycle management of our commercial products which is an ongoing process which we emphasize here as well to use the cost effectiveness and efficiency gain that we have in our focus. The last topic here from my side is a quick word about tariffs. As you all know, it’s a challenging topic at the moment we are not hit by tariffs on the commercial products because pharma products are today and I express again today they are not included, they are excluded from any tariffs.
Also any information. New information can arrive anytime as you know. And then we need to see what is the real impact. The good news is that we limited direct export to the US so the majority of our commercial product go to Europe and other countries outside of the us Development activities are considered as services, hence no tariffs on them at the moment. And we think it continues like this, but of course it’s not in our hands and on our control. So at this moment I would like to stop the update on carbon emsis and hand over to Paolo who gives an update about the Indian activities.
Paolo?
Paolo Armanino — Chief Operating Officer
Yeah, thank you. Stefan, can you hear me?
Stephan Fritschi — Chief Executive Officer
Yes .
Paolo Armanino — Chief Operating Officer
Yeah, thank you and good afternoon everyone. In the last quarter we continued our journey which is currently based on improving operations, develop new businesses and consolidate compliance at both the Babel and Naroda side location. Just very recently we hosted the US FDA inspection at our Norado site. It was a surveillance inspection and it started in the second week of June. The previous USFD inspection in naroda is dated six years back, February 2019. The US FDA inspector spent most of his time in the shop floor speaking with doers, which is very common for FDA inspector and eventually he appreciated the system in place, the team transparency and the site preparedness.
The inspection was concluded without a single observation and hence an 483 form was issued. We are currently awaiting for the EIR established inspection report with this very successful SDA inspection in our other side, Dichuan Cardiogenolysis has received just in the last one and a half year all the major regulatory authority approvals from ADQM to PMDA to US FDA in Babla to US FDA very recently in Arona Quality Compliance wise we are witnessing an increase of number customer audit at Bablasite which was very much expected. Consider that many old clients want to come and manufacturing again with us.
Operation Wise we deploy several resources to align Aroda site with all the multiple changes made in the previous years at Bavola and we were able to significantly improve an Aroda API manufacturing QC a warehouse facility bringing them to the same standard levels. The same was recently verified and very much appreciated also by the US FDA inspector as a part of the same improvement plant we also started a harmonization of the quality system between the Indian site and we expect to have a common system in the near future. Commercial Wise As Stephan said, it is very important to mention the tight collaboration within carbogenomsis mainly Switzerland and carbogenamsis teams.
We have seen a steep increase in the request for proposal and in the request for quotation and we are in daily discussion with carbogenamsis colleagues and customers for initiating early phase commercial new molecule projects. It is also worth to mention that the collaboration between carbogenomics different carbogenomes is increasing day by day not only at commercial level but also at technical level especially at R and D and project management level. Very important as also mentioned by Stefan, we are evaluating several CRAN businesses not only for Babula site but we see several big opportunities looming also for naroda, especially in a non API business.
Last but far from least we are very proud to inform you that several softgel drug products especially vitamins and analogs manufactured our drug product facility at Babla site were approved in different Asia Pacific South American countries. In some of them the commercialization under Bichmann Carbogen brand name already started. This is the starting of a complete new journey for us. We are now fully committed to also produce highly quality drug product to strengthen the pharmaceutical industry and ensure globally the patient safety. And after having said that I hand over the call back to our job as FO Arshild Alal.
Harshil Dalal — Global Chief Financial Officer
Thank you very much Paolo hello everybody, A very good evening to all of you. I’ll just quickly run you through the financials for the quarter ended 30th of June 2025. As far as the revenue is concerned, we already saw growth of about 35% as compared to Q1 of last year. So from 523 crores the revenue stood at about 708 crores. For the quarter ended June 30, the COGS stood at about 14% as a percentage of the revenue as compared to about 13% in the comparable quarter of last year. And if you see Historically our COGS have been in the range of about 18 19%.
The reason why it was lower because bulk of the revenue was contributed by some of the late phase development projects as compared to the early phase, the employee expenses, they stood at about 352 crores as compared to 317 crores. So that’s an increase of about 11% as compared to Q1 of last year. Part of this increase is on account of the Swiss franc fluctuation and the major impact that we saw was on the employee expenses. The other expenses were more or less in line with Q1 of last year it stood at about 117 crores. Overall, all of this translated into an ebitda of about 140.68 crores as compared to 28.97 crores in the comparable quarter of last year.
And this translates into an EBITDA margin of about 19.9%. For the quarter ended June 30, the depreciation and amortization stood at about 81 crores and this was higher than the depreciation as compared to the Q1 of last year, mainly because we had the start of operations of both the manufacturing lines. In the French facility the finance cost stood at about 42.76 crores, which also includes foreign exchange impact of about 2.4 crores. And it was higher than Q1 of last year largely because of the increase in the interest rates that we had seen during the course of the last financial year.
Having said that, we do expect this finance cost to keep on going lower. Throughout the course of the current financial year the tax expense stood at about 15 crores and this largely represents the tax expense at Carbogen and Swiss entity as well as at the Dutch entity. So overall all of this translated into a profit after tax of 23.4 crores for the quarter ended 30 June 2025. From a segment wise breakup, what we have done is kind of relooked at our overall segments and try to reclassify it into two broad segments, CDMO and marketable molecules.
In line with how we report also as report in the annual report, the CDMO piece consists of the Swiss entity, Manchester, Shanghai, France as well as the CDMO business that we have out of India. All of this put together. In the first quarter of the current financial year the revenue stood at 611 crores as compared to 421 crores in the comparable quarter of last year which represents an increase of about 45%. The marketable molecules segment, which essentially comprises of our vitamin D analogs and cholesterol business that we run out of Netherlands and the quads business that we run out of Naroda, as well as the softgel capsules business.
All of that put together translated into 96.8 crores of revenue as compared to 102 crores in the comparable quarter of last year. From a margin perspective, the CDMO business Contributed Roughly about 17.9% EBITDA margin in Q1 of this year as compared to 5.8% in comparable quarter last year, while the marketable molecule segment, largely driven by the increased margins out of our Dutch facility, contributed 32.4% as compared to 4.5% in Q1 of last financial year. From a revenue perspective, the CDMO business contributed about 86.3% to the overall business as compared to 13.7% for the marketable molecule segment.
As far as our debt position is concerned, the net debt saw a decline as compared to as of 30th of June 25th as compared to 3-31-25. The net debt excluding the lease liabilities stood at 149.69 million Swiss francs as compared to 157.6 million Swiss francs as of 31st of March 25th. The capital expenditure done in the first quarter of the current financial year stood at about 5% million US dollars. Apart from this, you know one of the other business updates that I just wanted to add to what Stefan and Paolo mentioned was co investment agreement that we entered into in this particular quarter with a large Japanese customer for for the expansion in Switzerland largely for the for the ADC product that we supply.
So this was a few of the financial highlights and with that I would like to open the floor for any questions that you might have. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to please we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchdown telephone if you wish to remove yourself from Question queue. You may press star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Subhadra Sarkar from Mount Infra. Please go ahead.
Subrata Sarkar
Yeah. Hello. Hello.
Harshil Dalal
Yes. Hi Supratha.
Subrata Sarkar
Hi. So first one bookkeeping question like one that we have taken an enabling resolution to issue share. So just my question is like how serious on the. We are into this because we have, if you were like previously also I have highlighted like one of the issue we are facing is like our EBITDA is not directly flowing to pat because of a like 1500 crore of debt. So what is our thought on that? And second like since most of the capex is now behind like from this 1500 crore what kind of year end date we are expecting.
Date we are expecting basically at the end of the year.
Harshil Dalal
Yeah. So regarding the enabling resolution. So you know obviously from time to time the the company has fundraising plans and that was the specific reason why we took this enabling resolution. And regarding the debt reduction or reduction of the interest cost as you may want to put it, you know we are very much focused on that particular aspect and you know we should see I would say a substantial reduction in the debt going forward, at least on the net debt perspective.
Subrata Sarkar
So any, any ballpark numbers for this year if you can give.
Harshil Dalal
So for this year you know initially we had put up a target of reduction of debt by at least 10 million Swiss francs. And if you see in the first quarter itself, you know there is a reduction of almost about 8 million. So we are very much in line to achieve that. But we might want to do even more than that.
Subrata Sarkar
Okay, just one clarification on our marketable molecule. Like why our marketable molecule has not gone up. Is it that we have scaled down some of the non profitable like vitamin D and other businesses or like what is the outlook? Are we expecting some growth there also on a full year basis?
Harshil Dalal
Sure. So we would definitely see a growth, you know and that would be reflective in the remaining quarters of the year. But to answer your question, in the first quarter what we had done. So if you see our vitamin D business there are two parts to it. One is the cholesterol business and the other is the vitamin D analog. And the more profitable business for us is the analogs business. So on the cholesterol front again the cholesterol is broken down into various grades like sf, nf, hp. These are the different grades of cholesterol which have different applications.
So the cholesterol SF which largely goes into the animal feed. We have actually consciously taken a decision to reduce the sales of the SF because you know, it was not making that much money for us. We are looking into base in how we can improve the profitability on that front as well. But in the first quarter, yes, we did take that conscious decision and that resulted into an increase in the margin for that particular segment for us.
Subrata Sarkar
Okay, last two question one is like on the tab front one clarification, like our facility, major facilities are either in India or in Switzerland. And both as of now has been not been able to come out with a settlement on the tariff with us. So are we expecting some heat on that front, sir?
Harshil Dalal
So as of now, you know, as Stefan mentioned, you know, as we stand today, you know, these tariffs are not impacting us because the products that we sell are exempted. What we have done is an analysis of our total shipments, you know, how much goes to the US how much to the rest of the world and excluding the services business, because what we expect is that at least the services business would be insulated from the tariff. Probably time will tell. But as far as the commercial products is concerned, there is a very small portion of the commercial products where the actual shipment happens directly to the factories of our customers in the US So even though while we might have a contract with the US customer, most of the shipments happen to the European locations of their facilities to formulate the product.
So from that perspective, we don’t expect that that should impact us even if there is a tariff on the commercial part of the business.
Subrata Sarkar
Got it. Sir, my last question, which is more of a business perspective from a business perspective and our capability like in. In our like ADC and BioConjugate. If you me to understand like what is our capability? Are we. Are we into like linkers as well as like like payload and the inter. Like like entire the delivery system. So what is our capability in. In the entire process? And like what is outsource? Or like what, what like out of that what part is need others contribution Basically.
Stephan Fritschi
Thank you very much for the question, if I may give you an answer here. If you look at the antibody drug conjugate, it consists about three parts. One is the warhead which is the active ingredient. The middle part is the linker which connects the warhead with the antibody. The antibody is the third part. And we are producing in principle two of the three. And the activities is then also the conjugation. So what are we doing? We can produce the warhead in our hypo compartments. So this is a very skilled activity where it needs special containment and skills.
So this we can do, we can produce the linker which is mostly small peptides and we can connect the two parts to the drug linker part and then we can do the conjugation with an antibody. So the conjugation itself is again technically highly demanding. So it’s in a aseptic sterile condition. What we have capabilities in Switzerland. What we cannot do at the moment is producing the antibody. The antibody, to answer your question we need to outsource or we need to buy the antibody. Most often it’s supplied by the customer or we have our partners who can deliver the antibody.
So we take the antibody into our workshop and make the conjugation. So that’s what we are doing in the. In the arena of ADCs.
Subrata Sarkar
Okay sir, any thought on like some tagging acquisition for antibody? Because lot of clients are now looking for since ADC is a very like important now into the system entire pharma system. So any thought on some tag of acquisition on antibodies so that we can provide the entire system rather than like some looking into somebody for that and to create an intel library of like ADC conjugate. So then client have a wider kind of a. We have a wider kind of a product to offer products and services to offer to the clients.
Stephan Fritschi
I understand your question. It’s. It’s also very good one at the moment. As I said before, we do not have the capability and. And to be honest it’s a very distinct and specific capability and expertise you need to have. And that’s why we do not exclude in far future maybe to acquire something but on short term we establish a collaboration specifically with one of our partners with a company nearby where we have established processes and we are in contract negotiation with them. And in due time we also communicate as soon as it’s possible to talk about this.
But the goal is to have a reliable source of antibodies and this company has also got an access to their clients which produce ADCs. And so this would be even a synergy effect where we can offer a combination of our capabilities.
Subrata Sarkar
Thanks. Thanks. From my. This is all from my side.
Stephan Fritschi
Thank you.
Harshil Dalal
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Meet Mehta from Prasoon. Please go ahead.
Meet Mehta
Hi, am I audible?
Harshil Dalal
Yes, Meet. You are.
Meet Mehta
Yes. So just one quick question that what are. What are the price trends you are seeing for vitamin D compared to the last financial year? And if you could share the average p rice for the quarter?
Harshil Dalal
You mean the average selling price?
Meet Mehta
Yes, yes.
Harshil Dalal
I won’t have the average selling price per kilo because, you know, it depends upon which product, which molecule, you know, and there are different segments as well, because, you know, what we do is we manufacture calcifediol, calcitriol, alpha, calciferol. So there are like different analogs of vitamin D. So that would be difficult to give out. But what I can say is that we have already initiated the efforts in order to try and see how we can bring down the prices of a key ingredient, which is the Bulgarize, which had actually impacted our profitability over the last 24, 36 months.
So, you know, we have, we have now alternate suppliers to the existing supplier of the bull grease, and we are in contract negotiation with them as well and with the existing supplier as well. You know, we are trying to see how we can kind of either terminate the contract, if at all, or maybe reduce the quantities that we procure from them. So from the supply chain perspective, those are the efforts that we have taken and we would see the positive impacts of that in the financials for the Deutsche entity.
Meet Mehta
Okay. Okay, thank you.
Harshil Dalal
Sure.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raman Unjin from individual investor. Please go ahead. Yes, Mr. Raman, go with the question, please. Yes, Ramanuj, please. Go with the question, please.
Unidentified Participant
Am I audible, sir?
operator
Yes, sir.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. So we see nodes for point number five, the goodwill, which, which was earlier 1326 crores. Today it is currently at 641 crores. So from this on this year, there will be no amortization on that.
Harshil Dalal
So this goodwill that you are seeing is on the standalone books and not at a consolidated level. At a consolidated level, the goodwill amount would be much higher, would be close to about 4,000 crores. So essentially on a consolidated basis, the goodwill consists of two parts. One is the goodwill on consolidation plus the goodwill that is there on the standalone books. The goodwill on the standalone books is something that we write off every year to the tune of roughly about 6.6 crores every year. And as far as the rest of the goodwill is concerned, that is just tested for impairment because that essentially represents the investments of the, of the standalone entity into its wholly owned subsidiaries.
Unidentified Participant
Can you explain how did you arrive t o this means, how did the board arrive t hat we don’t need any more amortization?
Harshil Dalal
No, we do amortize. Yeah. So as per the requirement of India, the goodwill needs to be tested for impairment every year and it does not require any kind of Amortization of the goodwill. However, what we do is that the goodwill sitting on the standalone books is something that we do write off over a period of time. But we have determined. The board has determined the useful life of this goodwill to be 99 years.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so it was specifically about Dichman Pharmaceuticals, which was until 2017, India business. Right.
Harshil Dalal
Dishman Pharmaceuticals and Chemicals Limited represented the entire group, Dishman Pharma being the parent entity. And we had done a reverse merger in 2017, which led to the. Led to the goodwill being recognized on the balance sheet.
Unidentified Participant
As of now in our total assets, h ow much percentage of the asset is goodwill o nly on consolidated basis.
Harshil Dalal
Yes. Percentage I’ll have to take out, but I can tell you the value. That would be — j ust a second, please h old on. So that is 4430.
Unidentified Participant
Hello.
operator
We have connected with the management. Yes, sir, go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yes.
Harshil Dalal
I don’t know where we got cut off, but just to explain you or just to let you know, the total goodwill as of 30th of June 25th stood at 4434 crores. And this is the goodwill which is tested for impairment every year. This goodwill gets impacted by the closing foreign exchange rate. Because most of this goodwill represents the goodwill which has arisen because of the investment in the subsidiaries. And most of our subsidiaries are located outside of India. So it gets impacted because of the closing foreign exchange rate. So while you see from 31st of March 25th where the Google amount stood at about 4053 crores, that has increased to 4400 crores just on account of the foreign exchange rate fluctuation.
So there is no additional goodwill which we have acquired or anything which has happened because of which the goodwill increased.
Unidentified Participant
My last question is regarding Dishman operations in China. What is the primary purpose of Darbogen in China? Is it manufacturing pharmaceuticals or is it CDMO research? What is it? Particularly.
Stephan Fritschi
The primary focus is on CDMO so that we produce on behalf of our customers in principle, what the majority. What we are doing in Carbon Amsys. This is also being done in Shanghai. We have combined or mixed business model. One is that we have external outside China businesses where Shanghai is part of our supply chain. They produce intermediate API intermediate and the intermediate is being shipped to Switzerland where we do the final steps to the API. They are capable also to produce the API itself. And this is what I mentioned before. The new focus, the most recent focus, to explore more the Chinese market.
Because up to now the Chinese market was not very important for Shanghai because we are lacking. We were lacking the GMP certification. And for the Chinese market it’s very important to have this GMP license. So that’s. Did I explain to your satisfaction?
Unidentified Participant
So I have one doubt. Recently we are seeing Aurobindo Pharma also has its manufacturing in China. They have decided to make supplies to the European units from China itself. Can we do the same?
Harshil Dalal
You mean supply the intermediates to the European Union?
Unidentified Participant
Yes, means why don’t we supply intermediates to France, Switzerland and UK when we can make it at very cheap price in China just like others are doing?
Harshil Dalal
Yeah, no, so we already do that, Ramanujan. So right now China is, is an extended workbench, if you may, of the Swiss entity. So all of what China produces today goes to the Swiss entity to then manufacture the final API. So that is something that we are doing today. What Stephan mentioned is that now that we received the certification from the Chinese fda, that opens up a new possibility for us where we can also cater to the entire Chinese market by manufacturing the products in the China facility that we have. So for that, you know, what we are trying to do is trying to put efforts on the sales front, including say hiring certain salespeople for the Chinese market.
So that will be a completely new revenue stream for us, which is something which has, which could happen now because we recently got this certification from the Chinese fda.
Unidentified Participant
So I mean, where do our clients primarily come from? Which country? Basically means majority of our. Where do most of our CDMO clients come from? Is it Europe, USA or Asia?
Stephan Fritschi
You mean in China.
Unidentified Participant
Consolidated basis for entire group?
Stephan Fritschi
Well, I would say it’s almost an equal split between the U.S. europe and, and also Japan. Japan is still the, maybe the smallest market in terms of revenue. But this is picking up with our efforts to penetrate the Japanese market more effectively. And one of the good signs are. Or is this collaboration we have with this big customer and there we’re expecting an increase. So otherwise the Europe and US market is almost the same. But again, just to repeat what Harshil mentioned before, also we have American us, American customers and companies. As customers, the majority of our product, they go into the European market.
So because they have subsidiaries or their formulation partner is in Europe and we send our material to Europe.
Unidentified Participant
Business to come from in future.
Harshil Dalal
Sorry Ramanujan, can you please repeat?
Unidentified Participant
Where are we expecting the most of our group’s business to come in future from? Means is it US Europe or any anywhere else? Where is our primary focus as of now?
Harshil Dalal
Yeah, I mean as far as if you’re talking about the market. The market for us would be us, Europe and Japan. So you know, these three would be our primary market because you know, that is where the innovators are based, that is where the biotech companies are based and those are our customers. Because we, our entire focus is on nces. So you know, we’re not that much into or hardly into generic part of the business. Our entire focus is on nces. And since the innovators and biotech companies are based here, this would be the primary geographies that we will cater to.
And as Stefan mentioned, the share of Japan in the overall mix should keep on increasing as we look into the future because that is something I would say that we have already tapped. But there is a huge growth potential for the Japanese market that we see.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thank you sir. Thank you for taking up my question.
Harshil Dalal
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask question. The next question is from the line of Smith Shah from JHP Securities. Please go ahead.
Smit Shah
Yeah, hi sir. Am I audible?
Harshil Dalal
Yes, Smith, you are.
Smit Shah
Yeah, hi sir. Firstly, congratulations on a good set of numbers. My first question would be regarding the fundraise. So can you give us a rough timeline and what kind of fundraiser the quantum of it, like what kind of fundraise are you looking at? And this will be majorly for what reason? To pay off the debt or this will be for Fresh Capex.
Harshil Dalal
So Smith, you know what I can say right now is that we obviously have a plan for this fundraise and that’s the reason we took this enabling resolution. Unfortunately I won’t be able to give out much details at this point in time. But yes, I mean the debt reduction is definitely something which is on the anvil. So that is for sure. So that will also result into a reduction in the interest cost.
Smit Shah
Okay, okay, understood. And so one more thing. This quarter we have categorized the entire revenues into CDMO and marketable molecules. This is, is it possible for us to give a breakup of the four segments that we used to give the revenue breakup and the EBITDA margin breakup.
Harshil Dalal
So essentially, you know, what we have done is that since CDMO is a major focus area for us and what we wanted to, as we have been saying, we have been trying to integrate the entire India business and the Swiss business. So the right way to look at our business would be more like CDMO as a whole rather than breaking it up into nt. Because now India, while India would keep on getting more and more business because of the strong customer relationships that Carbogenamsis has the revenues might still on a consolidated basis be booked under Carbogenamsis rather than India.
So it all depends upon where the customer relationship actually ends up. So that is the reason, you know, it would be good to look at the entire business as one, as a CDMO together rather than to split it between the entities. And that’s the reason, you know, we give this split as CDMO and the marketable molecules. The marketable molecules essentially includes our vitamin D business and part of the, of the Neroda business. So and that’s also how the reporting also goes into, into our annual report historically. So that is the, that was the reason, you know, why we said that.
Let’s relook at how do we see the segments now and how do we want to position ourselves going into the future. And hence this was a more logical way to represent it.
Smit Shah
Okay, fair enough. And sir, usually Q1 is a seasonally weak quarter for most of the CDMO players. But our Q1 was comparatively heavy in terms of sales. So on this base can we expect to grow sequentially or at least maintain these levels of revenues? And are we still on target to achieve the guidance that we had given for FY26 as a whole in terms of revenue like somewhere around 3000 crores top line and 20 to 22% kind of margins. So if you can give a guidance for FY26 in terms of revenue and margins.
Harshil Dalal
I would say based upon the Q1 numbers, you know, we look on track to achieve, you know, the targets for the current year as well as, you know, the outlook overall looks good if you take into account the next three to five years. So as of now we don’t see any major hiccups. But Yeah, I mean Q1 was a strong quarter for us and we do expect that the remaining part of the year should be in line with Q1.
Smit Shah
Okay, understood. And just, sir, just one last question that in marketable molecules this quarter the margins were really high, like 32.4%. So for the full year can we maintain these kind of margins or was there some one off here? Or if you can provide a guidance for the entire year on the EBITDA margin for the marketable molecules.
Harshil Dalal
Yeah, I won’t say it was a one off, but it was a conscious decision to reduce the sales of cholesterol SF as I mentioned earlier, while, you know, and hence if you see the revenue shows a dip while the margins have increased, that is largely because of a larger portion of the vitamin D analogs part of the business during the course of the year. We are trying to see how we can reduce the cost of manufacturing the sf, which obviously is a low margin product as compared to the analogs. So we would not want to compromise the overall margins to a large extent.
But obviously the revenue is also important so we would just try to balance that out a bit. But overall we do expect that the margins for the full year for that particular segment should be higher than what we posted in the last financial year.
Smit Shah
Okay, understood sir, understood. That’s it from my side, sir. Thank you so much and all the best.
Harshil Dalal
Thank you very much Smith for your question.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vignesh I hear from Sequence Investment. Please go ahead. Yes, Mr. Vignesh, go with your question please.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, am I audible now?
operator
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Yeah, thanks. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a good set of number two questions from my side, sir. Firstly, I was going through our Q1 presentation on slide number four. So we have a basket of 12 APIs in late phase three development. If I remember correctly from the last presentation, this number was around 14 APIs. So have any of this commercialized or have they been dropped from the pipeline?
Harshil Dalal
Yeah, for at least two of the APIs, you know, the projects have been put on hold. So you know, we just waiting for further clarity from the customers. So, and hence since there was if and but. So that was the reason, you know, we have kind of removed it from the, from the phase three number.
Unidentified Participant
I mean they are on hold, right? I mean they are not.
Harshil Dalal
Yeah. But you know, since right now we don’t have a visibility as in when that program will reset start or when the customer would go ahead with that project, you know, that was the reason, you know, why we have taken it out of the late phase three because there is a possibility that it never begins. So on a conservative basis, you know, we’ve just stated where we are confident and where we are already working on the number of APIs that have been mentioned.
Unidentified Participant
Right sir, second question is on our capex side, wanted to understand what, what would be the number for this year? I mean we have spent around $5 million if I’m not wrong.
Harshil Dalal
So overall for the full. Sure. So for the full year, you know, we had given a guidance of a total capex of about 25 million Swiss francs. So you know, Q1 was about US$5.6 million, which is roughly about what 4 million Swiss francs. So you know, we are pretty much below the run rate that we should have had for the Q1. So overall we do expect that it should be much lesser than what we had mentioned earlier.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. That’s all from my side. Thank you.
Harshil Dalal
Thank you Vignesh.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Satish Bhatt from Tulsa Finance. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi Harshil and the entire Dishman team. Congrats on the good set of numbers. I had some few questions I think Paolo mentioned regarding the soft gel business. Can you throw some light on what type of revenue potential you are seeing and how much you have booked this business, you know, in the current quarter? Because that is going to come into a marketable molecules. One was that. The second was question harsher. You mentioned that your US net sales to direct customers is hardly anything. Can you just please quantify that amount in terms of percentage of your total CDMO business, how much you give directly to US customers at their factories, you know.
And third is the co investment with the Japanese customer. So how much has been committed? What should be will be our commitment towards that investment? We can throw some light on that. And I think our China subsidiary has got FDA clearance. So what type of business we are seeing around the next three to five y ears and how we would be competent w ith the other Chinese guys here who already have a well established business in China. That was the thing. And whether in this quarter our France subsidiary did any EBITDA loss and whether you can share whether how does the PBT loss for the business, you know.
Harshil Dalal
Sure. Thank you Satish Bhee for your questions. So starting with your first question regarding the softgel, so what the strategy is that right now we are targeting the semi regulated markets. So we have obtained approvals from some of the countries in the semi regulated market and we have started selling to those markets. And maybe Paolo, if you can just pitch in with more specifics and you know the target is to keep on growing this particular business. So as you know we manufacture calcitriol calcifediol as well in Netherlands. So the idea would be to kind of formulate this into softgel capsules and that is something that we would want to market.
But Pablo, I’ll also leave it to you if you want to add something more.
Paolo Armanino
Yeah, yeah. So what we have seen very interesting, we got the oil approval from country like Myanmar and as I mentioned before, Chile, South America, we have seen also Vietnam. So here is where we see the market. So here we file several molecules like Calciprio Calcifiedio which we are procuring from Netherlands and we see that basically the commercial Quantities are increasing and the same that we have seen in South America. We have seen also the Russian country requiring more and more these molecules. This is just only one part. So this part strategically is very important because can connect the drug product in India and the API manufacturer in Netherlands, Carbogen, Netherlands.
A second part which I not mentioned in my speech, brief speech before is the crumbs business. We see a very big interest from the company to do CDO CDMO here in Babla. So we can make basically contract manufacturing so we can produce soft gel for customers. And we have seen a very big interest also here in India. So we are seeing practically an expansion, big expansion of the interest in the organization. We are going with our own products with the Dishman logo. And there is also cram business going on. So this is just of course for us this is a business just started, let’s say.
But we seeing that the quantity are picking up and the interest from the company is picking up, especially in the vitamin and analogs.
Harshil Dalal
Okay. Sorry Satish, what was the second question?
Unidentified Participant
Your net U.S. sales.
Harshil Dalal
Yeah, so the net U.S. sales, I think it was less than 10%. I don’t have the exact number, but it was less than 10% of the total CDMO business. So these are, these are the commercial supplies that go directly to the U.S. okay.
Unidentified Participant
And regarding the total co investment in the new facility at Switzerland for Japanese customer, how much we are going to contribute in that?
Harshil Dalal
I mean as of now, the entire investment comes from the customer. I mean our contribution would be our internal hours.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so that goes. That is around to the tune of 25, 30 million CHF or even more.
Harshil Dalal
Than that, 25 million Swiss francs. This is the second round. In the first round they put in 15 and we put in 10.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And regarding the China business, if I think Stephen can show some light on it, China, how big that business can be and how competitive you are going to be with the big Chinese players?
Stephan Fritschi
Well, it’s a good question. I haven’t got the numbers, but the market itself is huge, similar to the US Even in terms of number of people, it’s even bigger. So we are expecting quite significant. But I cannot give you a number because we are at the very beginning of this process.
Unidentified Participant
And Hershel, regarding the France visit, how much business did we do or did we make any EBITDA profit or still making losses?
Harshil Dalal
No, in the first quarter there was an EBITDA loss. The revenue was at about 4 and a half million and the loss was about close to about 2 million. So we do Expect that as the business keeps on increasing throughout the course of the year, the EBITDA loss should, you know, on a proportionate basis should actually curtail down.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, and this is questions to Paolo sir regarding your hypo facility in India. So when are you start going to get some revenues? You know, so what is the strategy regarding getting orders for your hypo plant in Bawla?
Paolo Armanino
Yeah, that is a very good question. So this is where we are working very hard within India and Switzerland. So we are evaluating several projects. We are currently just recently discussing one product which is a category three. And we are trying to evaluate, we also discuss internally with finance how to restart everything. So this is one of our major target because we know the quality of the plant. Also carbogenosis is absolutely very interesting in this plant. So we are working on this. So we have seen some candidates. So we are positive in restarting the facility in the near future.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, thanks Paolo.
Paolo Armanino
Thank you.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks Arjun. Congrats for the numbers.
Harshil Dalal
Thank you very much, Satish.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nawaz, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Nawaz
Hello. Hello. Yeah, hi. Hi. Good evening. First of all, congratulations to the great number. So I think a few of my peers have already asked questions so just. I will sort it down. The question now once was what is the order book you have as of now. And the second one is the revenue guidance example. This we have done 707708 this particular quarter and now we are in the mid of the quarter two. Do we feel like the quarter two is going to be better than quarter one and likewise quarter three and four. So how substantial numbers are going to have maybe like 708 we have done here.
So whether 10%, 15%, 20%. This I need this visibility here.
Harshil Dalal
So Nawaz, correct me if I’m wrong but you know, just to understand your questions, the first one was in, in regards to the pipeline. So as we have discussed in the presentation, the development pipeline stands at about 117 million Swiss francs as of 30th of June 25th. And the commercial order book at roughly about 77 million. That’s for carbogenamsis. Sorry, what was your second question?
Nawaz
Second is we have done 708 crore in the quarter one. Right. And we are in the mid of the. Like almost made of the quarter two. So at least we should have, we might be having the visibility. How is the quarter going to be quarter two? I mean whether it’s better than quarter one and if it is better than quarter One, what is the approximate percentage you know in the top line you’re going to see and likewise how you, how is the visibility for quarter three and quarter four.
Harshil Dalal
So I would, I would not like to give a guidance on each of the quarters because of the nature of our business. Overall things look to be in the right direction on all the fronts. We are trying to work on this integration between Switzerland, India, etc. And the French facility. The revenue should pick up. It should be much higher than what we did in the last financial year. Netherlands, we are trying to work on the profitability part as well. Switzerland, as Stefan mentioned, the RFPs have been increasing. So overall right now as a total guidance, things are looking up and we do expect that the revenues as well as profitability should keep on increasing from here on.
So it will be difficult to give you know what will happen this quarter than in Q3, Q4, but overall for the full year and if you take a mid to long term view, things look to be on the right track.
Nawaz
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you sir. That’s all from my my end sir.
Harshil Dalal
Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask question. The next question is from the line of Ramanjan, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello.
Harshil Dalal
Yeah, hi Ramanujan.
Unidentified Participant
Hello sir. Yeah, I actually have a small question. Would it be possible for us to actually change the way investors are registering for conference call? Actually in other, in case of other companies, what’s happening? Those companies give us a link two or three days before the conference call in which investor register their mobile numbers, email IDs and it becomes, you know, it becomes easy for them. Is it possible for additional to do that same thing?
Harshil Dalal
Yeah, of course. I mean we would, we would, we would like to make life easy for all of us. I mean, I know, I mean the reason why the call was started late was because of our service provider. I mean they were not able to let the participants in. So we really apologize for that. But we’ll make sure that all of the details that you mentioned which even other companies follow we would be giving apart from the dial in number, also the link, you know where you can log in into this call. So thank you for a suggestion.
Appreciate it. And we will make sure that that is followed from the next quarter call.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you sir. That’s it from my side.
Harshil Dalal
Sure. Thank you very much Ramanuj.
operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. As that was the last question for the I would now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments. Over to you sir.
Stephan Fritschi
Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for all your interest in this afternoon’s call. Your questions we hope that we could answer. And then to your satisfaction. And of course, if there is more, we are available also outside of this, our chief financial officer will be happy to answer. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. And I wish you all a good day and good evening and talk to you next time.
Harshil Dalal
Thank you very much, everybody.
Paolo Armanino
Thank you. Bye.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of Dishman Carbogen Amcis Limited that concludes this content. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.