Datamatics Global Services Limited (NSE: DATAMATICS) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 16, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Rahul Kanodia — Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Ankush Akar — Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Pratik Jagtap — Investor Relations
Mihir Manohar — Analyst
Hemant Shah — Analyst
Reuben Mathews — Analyst
Sahil Jain — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Datamatics Global Services Limited Q4 FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr Pratik Jagtap from E&Y LLP Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Pratik Jagtap — Investor Relations
Thank you, Mana. Good afternoon to all the participants in the call today. Welcome to the Q4 FY ’25 earnings call of Datamatics Global Services Limited. The results and presentation have been already mailed to you and it is also available on the website of DataMatics. In case anyone has not received a copy of press release or presentation, please do write to us and we will be happy to send you all.
To take us through the results today and to answer your questions, we have with us the top management of the company represented by Rahul Kanodia, Vice-Chairman and CEO; Ankush Akar, SVP and Chief Financial Officer; Mitul Mehta, EVP and Chief Marketing Officer. Rahul will start the call with brief overview of the quarter on business, which will be then followed by Ankush, who will take us through the financials, then we will open the floor for Q&A session.
I would like to remind you that anything that is said on this call, which gives any outlook for the future or which can be construed as a forward-looking statement must be viewed in conjunction with the risks and uncertainties that we face. These risks and uncertainties are included, but not limited to what we have mentioned in the prospectors filed with SEBI and subsequent annual reports, which you can find on our website. With that said, I now hand over the call to Rahul sir. Over to you, Rahul sir.
Rahul Kanodia — Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Thanks, Pradik, and a very warm welcome to all of you and thank you for joining us for the quarter-four FY ’25 earnings call. I will begin by sharing key strategic highlights from our quarterly and annual performance, after which Ankush will provide a detailed overview of the financials. We will then open the floor for questions. We delivered a steady performance in-quarter four FY ’25 with a revenue of INR497.2 crores, which is up 20.5% on a year-on-year basis and an EBITDA of INR75.5 crores, reflecting a 15.3% year-on-year growth.
Of course, this includes quarter-four revenue contribution from TNQ Tech, which we acquired on the 31st of December 2024. For the full-year, we achieved revenues of INR1,723.4 crores, representing a year-on-year growth of 11.2% over 2020 — over FY ’24. On an overall basis, 3% of our growth came from organic performance and the balance came from acquisitions. This year, we have seen an unexpected dip in volumes from our tax business due to the tax volume shifting to in-house captive centers, and we are seeing some slowness in pipeline velocity and decision-making due to the tariff uncertainties.
Going-forward, we will continue to focus on our strategic accounts to expand our presence in the US and European market and drive cost optimization to achieve this. We are — to achieve this, we are aligning our teams around strategic and key growth accounts. AI remains a cornerstone of our strategy. We believe that AI is transformative potential and remain committed to delivering impactful business outcomes for our customers through our AI-first approach. We are seeing more proof-of-concepts being done in this space and some of them converting into projects. The Board of Directors has recommended a final dividend of INR5 per share, which translates to 100% of the face value, which is a INR5 face value, reaffirming our commitment to shareholders. In closing, I would like to express my sincere gratitude to our employees, customers, partners and shareholders for their continued trust and support.
With that, I’ll hand over to Ankush for the financial update.
Ankush Akar — Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer
Thank you, Rahul. Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us in-quarter four FY ’25 earnings call. Let me start with financial performance for the quarter-four FY ’25 and then I will take you through the full-year FY ’25 financial performance as well. Our quarter-four FY ’25 revenue stood at INR497.2 crores, reflecting growth of 16.8% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Our EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR74.5 crores, reflecting a 36.6% growth compared to previous quarter.
Our EBITDA margin for the quarter was 15% compared to 12.8% in the previous quarter. Our EBIT for the quarter stood at INR54.5 crore, reflecting a 21.9% growth compared to previous quarter. Our EBIT margin for the quarter was 11% compared to 10.5% in the previous quarter. Our quarter-four FY ’25 performance includes full-quarter number of TNQ acquired on 31st of December 2024. Our other income for the quarter was INR8.1 crore as compared to INR10.7 crore in the previous quarter. Decline was due to the utilization of funds for the acquisition, reflecting in lower-income from investments.
Our PAT after non-controlling interest was at INR44.9 crore, down by 39.6% on quarter-on-quarter basis. The decline is due to an exceptional item one-time gain in-quarter three FY ’25. In terms of segment, our digital operations revenue for the quarter was INR266.4 crore, which is up by 49.7% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Digital Operations EBIT margin was 16.4% for the quarter. Digital Technologies revenue for the quarter was INR159 crore, which is down by 8.3% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Digital Technologies EBIT margin was 1% for the quarter. Digital experiences revenue was INR71.7 crore, a decline of 3.3% on quarter-on-quarter basis. Digital experiences EBIT margin was 13.1% for the quarter.
Talking about FY ’25 financials, our revenue stood at INR1,723.4 crores, reflecting growth of 11.2% on Y-o-Y basis. Our EBITDA for the year was INR229.3 crores and EBITDA margin was 13.3%. Our EBIT for the year was INR181.2 crore and EBIT margin was at 10.5%. PAT after non-controlling interest was at INR205 crores and PAT margin was 11.6%. For the financial year, if we see this segment, our digital operations revenue for the year was INR785.8 crores, which is up by 13.2% from previous year.
Digital Operations EBIT margin was 14.9% for the year. Digital Technologies revenue for the year was INR655.9 crores, which is up by 7.3% from the previous year. Digital Technologies EBIT margin was 3.6% of the — for the year. Digital experiences revenue for the year was INR281.7 crores, which is up by 15.4% for the previous year. Digital Experiences EBIT margin was 14.3% for the year. We continue to maintain a healthy balance sheet despite utilization of funds for two acquisitions during the year, our cash and investments, net of debt remained strong at INR415.3 crores. Our bill DSO was 57 days as of March 2025 as compared to 67 days as of March 2024. In terms of geographical — geographical footprint, US remains our largest geography with 54% of the business coming from here, followed by India at 21%, UK and Europe at 15% and rest of the world at 10%.
In terms of industry footprint, technology and consulting was the largest segment for us, which constitutes 26% of the revenue followed by BFSI, which stood at 21%, then education and publishing stood at 18%, manufacturing and logistics, which stood at 13%, non-profit and non-government organizations at 10%, retail at 8% and rest of all are 4% of the revenues. Our client concentration remained healthy with top-five, 10 and 20 clients contributing to 20%, 33% and 48% respectively.
With this, I will now pass-on the call to operator to open the floor for questions.
Operator
Thank you for your patience and continued interest in Datamatics.
Rahul Kanodia — Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Hello?
Operator
Yes, sir. Should we begin the question-and-answer session?
Rahul Kanodia — Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Yes, please.
Questions and Answers:
Rahul Kanodia
Okay. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets only while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
Operator
We have a first question from the line of Mihir Manohar from Carnelian Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Mihir Manohar
Yeah, hi, thanks for giving the opportunity. Am I audible?
Rahul Kanodia
Yes. But a little muffled, but yes.
Mihir Manohar
Yes, it’s better?
Rahul Kanodia
Yeah.
Mihir Manohar
Yeah, sure. Sir, largely wanted to understand on the digital tech part of the piece. I mean, so when I go through the presentation and through the website, it broadly, I mean, we are doing managed services, Salesforce, Microsoft-related work and automatic fare collection also. If you could throw some light here as to what exactly are we doing here in digital tech because the reason I wanted to understand is your margin side is a 4%, 5% EBIT margin range of 4% to 6%. So why is it that our EBIT margins are in this band versus when we see for other IT companies, they are in the 11% to 15% band depend on the company that you select. So just wanted to get a sense as to what are we doing exactly here and how — I mean why our EBIT margins are in this 4% to 6% range?
Rahul Kanodia
Sure. So if you look at the core IT services, they are in the range of about 15-odd percent in EBIT terms. And that is impacted for two reasons. One is that we — all our investments in the product development and the R&D that we’re doing in AI is going into this bucket. And the second is the business that we do with automatic fare collection is also not a very healthy margin business, plus it has a large component of hardware. Since we are not a hardware company, it’s basically a trading margin that you make on that. So the AFC piece and the investments in products is what is eroding the margins. If you look under the sheets, basically the core IT services is running at about 15% margin.
Mihir Manohar
Okay. So this 15% you were mentioned EBITDA. 15% is EBIT?
Rahul Kanodia
15% is EBIT.
Mihir Manohar
Okay. If you can quantify the impact of — I mean both listing AFC as well as investments that could be — I mean so AFC is how large for us? I mean, out of INR700 crores of INR650 croress?
Rahul Kanodia
Is about INR80 crores to INR85 crore INR90 crores roughly ballpark.
Mihir Manohar
On a quarterly basis?
Rahul Kanodia
No, no, no, an annual basis, but that’s a very low-margin.
Mihir Manohar
Understood. Sure. Correct. And these investments that you were mentioning about, these are the company-level investments or only the segment level investments?
Rahul Kanodia
So all the investments on technology fit into this. So no matter where in the company we do R&D, all of it comes into the IT bucket.
Mihir Manohar
Okay, understood. Sure. Yeah, that’s it from my side, sir. Thank you.
Rahul Kanodia
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. We have our next question from the line of Heman Shah from Seven Island PMS. Please go ahead.Hi, thank you for taking my question. Am I audible?
Rahul Kanodia
Yes.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Could you help me with the revenue contribution of TNQ in Q4?
Ankush Akar
Yes, T&Q revenue contribution in Q4 is about INR74 crores.
Hemant Shah
INR74 crores. And for the full-year FY ’25, what would be — I mean, when we acquired the company last year, I think around INR290 crores?
Rahul Kanodia
Yeah, I think around INR287 crores or INR290 crores — 287 or 290, it.
Hemant Shah
And secondly, is there any one-off with respect to this acquisition? In Q3, we had INR5 crore of one-off, I think you had mentioned. Is there any one-off in Q4?
Rahul Kanodia
One-off expense you mean?
Hemant Shah
Yeah, one-off expense.
Rahul Kanodia
We had a one-off expense for the acquisition of T&Q, which — so Ankush, you want to say something?
Ankush Akar
Yeah. So we had a one-off expense in last quarter, quarter three, which was for the acquisition. For this quarter, there is nothing as one-off in this quarter.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Okay. So basically the depreciation and amortization which has gone up from, say, almost INR7 crore to INR20 crore, this is going to be the new normal?
Ankush Akar
So this basically when we do the acquisition, there is an intangible assets as well which gets generated. So there are two basically the goodwill and the customer contracts. So this is basically amortization of that customer contracts, which will continue for the few quarters basically till it is amortized.
Hemant Shah
Okay. So this includes goodwill amortization as well.
Ankush Akar
So goodwill is not amortized. Only the customer contracts, which we have created. So the INR7 crore will continue for a few quarters till it is amortaged fully.
Hemant Shah
Could you quantify how many quarters?
Ankush Akar
It will be roughly over three years. Over three years.
Hemant Shah
All right, all right. Okay, okay. So my next question would be, after this T&Q, this is the first full quarter, correct?
Ankush Akar
And Q4 was the full-quarter. This will be the first full-year.
Hemant Shah
Yeah. So FY ’26 will be the first full-year of TNQ numbers, correct with respect to — I mean, consolidated numbers.
Ankush Akar
Correct.
Hemant Shah
So if you see, if you see, we have done INR17 crore INR23 crore of top-line and I think TNQ anyway is going to have a top-line of INR300 crore. So technically, we should do around INR1950 crore of sales for going-forward in FY ’26 comfortably without assuming any growth in the normal businesses, including the Lumina as well as Datamatics standalone?
Rahul Kanodia
That is correct.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Okay. And where do you see, Rahul, the margin expansion scope, I mean in terms of digital operations, we have done in Q4 16%, but if you see yearly, it has declined. And even in digital experiences, Q4 has done okay, but yearly, I think it has declined. And Digital Technologies, I think has done really a mad margin EBITDA margin.
Ankush Akar
So it appears that because of just the spend that we have, point number-one. And. And point number two in technologies, we did have a little bit of a dip in revenue in Q4. Having said that, having said that, the measures that we’ve taken to control costs should show us a significant change across the board. The maximum change should be in the digital technology area that you see. But even in digital experiences, we will see an improvement in margins. So we will see margin improvement, more so in these two pockets, but we will see it across the board.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Even in digital operations, we will also see some improvement because of TNQ?
Ankush Akar
That’s correct. Partly because of 10-Q, partly because of some cross-cutting measures that we’ve already taken care of.
Hemant Shah
Okay. So I mean if you just analyze this, I mean for the next year, can we comfortably expect 150 to 200 bps of margin improvement? I’m not talking about the guidance, of course, this is pure mathematics.
Ankush Akar
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I expect that.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Okay. Okay. Great. And lastly, could you throw some idea on deal wins now? We have mentioned four, five deal wins in the presentation. Is the size is about INR20 crore annually or below INR5 crore annually?
Ankush Akar
So these new deals or new logos that we will typically always start small and they scale. So there are some very good logos that we’ve acquired, but they will always start with the range of INR0,000, $300,000. That’s about INR1.5 crores to INR2.5 crores. But then they scale depending on how the performance goes.
Hemant Shah
Yeah. Okay. But is there any deal we have won over, say, INR10 crore or higher?
Ankush Akar
Yes. Yes, there are and there are some in the pipeline as well that we will — we will know hopefully very soon.
Hemant Shah
Okay, great. Great. So lastly, I think if you can throw some light on AI-driven revenues in FY ’25, I think you had mentioned around 40 million in Q3,
Rahul Kanodia
Yes, the quarter 40 million of AI?
Hemant Shah
For the year.
Rahul Kanodia
No, no. Our total top-line roughly EUR200 million. So it’s EUR40 million in just pure AI would be very heavy. No, no.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Okay. Okay. So what would be the AI-driven revenues?
Rahul Kanodia
We are not tracking specific AI-driven revenue because we are injecting AI across-the-board in multiple areas. So every project is some control of AI, Scott that’s coming in. It’s very difficult to track up your AI revenue. Having said that, there have been a few POCs that I mentioned in my address, there are a few pure AI proof-of-concept projects done and they are now converting into live projects.
Hemant Shah
So every year we spend around INR40 crore to INR50 crore with respect to the R&D and the technology spend, right?
Rahul Kanodia
That is correct, which is going to continue even in ’26, ’27 as well?It will continue. We are realigning some of that from some product investments that we were making towards AI. So we are sort of reallocating some capital. But yeah, fundamentally, that will continue.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Okay. Fair enough. And lastly, sorry to take so many questions. Thank you for this INR5 dividend. This is a very good gesture. And just wanted to know, I mean, there is one competitor — likewise competitor in the market in the stock-listed space, which is MPS Limited. Yeah. I mean if you see the financials of MPS, I think it has steadily grown in terms of volume and even in terms of margins. If you see three years back, the size of the company was almost half the size which is today and the margins have also already expanded from, say, 18% to almost 23%, 23.5%. I mean, can we see this kind of trajectory with Datamatics Lumina around because we have acquired so many fantastic assets. And so beautiful companies.
Rahul Kanodia
Yeah, it would not be correct to compare all of with MPS. MPS is one component of what we do. T&Q, for an example, fits into that space, but there’s a lot more data management. That’s point number-one. Point number two is that the margins in that space is similar for our division that’s into digital content, as well as TMQ is similar to MPS. And thirdly, the growth rate that you’ve seen in MPS has largely come through acquisitions. It has not been an organic growth. So yeah, if you consider acquisitions, then you will see that. But right now, we’ve already this year done two acquisitions. So coming financial year, we’re not looking at any significant acquisitions.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Okay. But I mean, margin expansion, as you rightly mentioned, around 150 to 200 bps is on a consol basis, data, all-inclusive is visible, right? And possible.
Rahul Kanodia
Yes.
Hemant Shah
Okay, okay. Thank you so much. Thank you for taking the you.
Rahul Kanodia
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask a question you may press star and one anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star. If you wish to ask a question, you may press star N1. We have our next question from the line of Heman Shah from Seven Island PMS. Please go ahead.
Hemant Shah
Sorry, I think it’s a one-on-one call. Thank you. Thank you for taking one more question. This is with respect to the interest cost and the debt what we have taken around INR150 crore in the balance sheet at FY ’25. Yeah. So how would the fund — I mean, repayment would be doing? And this is for the T&Q acquisition.
Rahul Kanodia
That is correct. Just for the T&Q acquisition, see, we are so we can pay it out. So I don’t think we have any concern from a payment. We will pay-down those from future revenue accruals and profit accruals. That’s the plan. And it’s always good to remain liquid and that’s the reason why we did take some debt.
Hemant Shah
Okay. No, fair enough. Fair enough. But we’ll be repaying it in the next two years or so, more internal cash-flow?
Rahul Kanodia
Three years, I’m not missing. Three years.
Hemant Shah
Yeah, three years. Okay.
Ankush Akar
We generate on a yearly basis, we are generating almost INR200 plus crore of operating cash-flow. So I think the borrowing is not issue as of now.
Hemant Shah
Correct. I think with TNQ, we can generate even 20% to 25% more, if I’m not mistaken.
Ankush Akar
Yeah.
Hemant Shah
So all right, all right. Fair enough. And I think since it is a one-on-one call, I think you’ve done a fantastic job. But as a shareholder, we would like to see margin improvement in all three segments around Technologies, operations as well as experiences. Since you’re spending so much on R&D and automation, I think the fruits are still not visible. I mean, is there any reason or it’s the — still I think the business is asking for more spend?
Rahul Kanodia
No, I think the spend in the business will be at a steady-state. So it’s not asking for increasing the spend. I think now the spend has to be more in some solutions that we take to-market. So it’s more from a go-to-market kind of thing. But I am confident that we will see improvement on the bottom-line across-the-board in this new financial year.
Hemant Shah
Okay. Because we have, I think almost spent maybe INR250 crore or INR300 crore in last five or six years, right?
Rahul Kanodia
That’s correct. That’s correct.
Hemant Shah
I think it would not be fair to assume 20% ROI for this investments.
Rahul Kanodia
So some of them have an opportunity potential to give us some very good returns. So yeah, let’s see how that goes.
Hemant Shah
Okay.
Rahul Kanodia
We are still bullish.
Hemant Shah
No, fair enough. Fair enough. And you mentioned some slowdown in terms of intakes of the orders and some slowdown with the US market. Maybe you can throw some light?
Rahul Kanodia
Yeah, we are seeing some of our customers go slow or pause some projects, given the uncertainties around tariff and given the possible inflation that they are talking about in the US, US are some other — and we also see that impacting the pipeline a little bit. However, in the last week or two weeks, we’ve seen some — some easing off with the US administration as far as China and Turkey and Syria and Saudi, all these countries that we talk about. So if there is a little — if some of these things settle, then we should see an uptick hopefully soon.
Hemant Shah
Yeah. Fair enough. And lastly, we have 20% of our business from India.
Rahul Kanodia
Yes. Yes.
Hemant Shah
So where do you see the potential of Indian market going on? 20% is almost roughly INR350 crore of business.
Rahul Kanodia
Yes. So India is a tricky one because India is a very good market, but it is a price-sensitive market. So from a growth perspective, India looks good. However, from a margin perspective, India will always be a little compressed and that’s the challenge we have with India.
Hemant Shah
But do you see the products you are offering? I think no other companies are offering to the MSME sector or maybe a small company. I mean, do you see that kind of potential? I mean, I think India is growing. I don’t know-how far the market is growing in terms of the products what you are getting.
Rahul Kanodia
The products we are selling — we sell-in India as well as the Western market. In the Western markets, of course, we get much better margins and so — and a large part of it is also digital operations, which is — so digital operations hopefully will get a flip when we able to implement some AI solutions. Although having talked about AI, again, right now, the pricing structure of AI for India is still a bit of a challenge. The cost is not as cheap as India would like it to be as a geography that is, because labor cost is quite cheap here. So once that matures, then we can deploy it and try to reduce the cost in India. But right now, the Indian customers are a little wary when it comes to deploying AI because it does not give them a financial gain. It gives them automation, but not necessarily a financial gain.
Hemant Shah
That’s right. Sorry. All right. I mean, thank you for taking all my questions, Rahul, all the best and I will connect soon. Thank you.
Rahul Kanodia
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and 1. We have we have our next question from the line of Matthews from Equity Intelligence India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Reuben Mathews
Yeah, hi. I just had a quick question. I believe you recently met with Google. I’m just trying to understand how did that meeting going on? And maybe you can give a little bit more — can you give us some explanation on what exactly would you be doing with Google?
Rahul Kanodia
So we had a good meeting with Google. It’s about a joint go-to-market. So we are taking some of the solutions, particularly using AI to the market and they are taking us to their customer base as well. So it’s a joint initiative to deploy AI solutions to the customer-base that we have and that they have. Yeah. And we’re building some of the solutions on-top of their platform.
Reuben Mathews
Okay. So is that one of the deals that you said that you’ve won or is it still under discussion?
Rahul Kanodia
No, that — no, we’ve not yet closed any deal with Google. Those are still in the pipeline.
Reuben Mathews
Okay. And yeah, that’s all I need to. Thanks.
Rahul Kanodia
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Mihir Manohar from Carolinian Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Mihir Manohar
Yeah, hi. Thanks for giving the follow-up. Pardon for my, sir. I broadly wanted to understand this investments that we are making in what are these tools exact two? I mean, I know that we have True bought, Lumina, a different category of products. So I mean this investments that you’re making in what exactly are they into?
Rahul Kanodia
So they are in-building these products, and now we’ve been putting a lot of Gen AI into these products and now we’ve got something that we’re developing is agent AI. So we are building solutions around agent AI. So all of that is where the R&D is going. Around the latest technologies around AI. The whole space of AI is moving very, very fast right now, and therefore it needs that we are on our toes, constantly doing R&D and implementing the latest solutions available. So that’s — yeah, so these products are around automation, around information, and intelligent document processing extracting and interpreting information, and around business intelligence.
Mihir Manohar
Okay, understood. Products, would these products be sufficient itself for us to — I mean, in the future revenue generation becoming directly possible only from the products or subscription of products or will it be a part of managed services and product-type services kind of a thing going ahead?
Rahul Kanodia
It is both. It is both. So we are selling these products as licenses, and we are also using these products as part of our managed services. So it’s both.
Mihir Manohar
Okay, understood. Out of INR1,700 crores, how much would be pure product revenue?
Reuben Mathews
So that’s the tough one because we are not — because those that go as part of managed services, we are not able to track that revenue specifically to the product. And the cost of the R&D and product building is all put into the digital technologies bucket. Therefore, you see the technology bucket having a little depressed margin. But yeah.
Mihir Manohar
Understood, sure. What would be the new investment that would be towards this identific investment?
Rahul Kanodia
Well, that’s hard to say. AI in general, AI and all the products together is about INR40 crore to INR50 crores, but I can’t slice it out, break it up and to give you these slices because there’s a lot of interrelationship between them. It’s hard to say what is what.
Mihir Manohar
Sure. Sure, sure, sure. Second question was on the comment the stat you made. I mean there was a in volumes because of the shift to captive centers. I mean, is this happening in your top-10, top-20 clients? How to — how to see this and how important — I don’t know-how significant is this or in which area is this happening?
Rahul Kanodia
Yeah, it did take place in some of the — in the top customers. And you see — if you see the top-five customers that we’ve had, we see a dip in percentage of revenue that we get. But generally in the industry, one does see a trend towards captive centers and we see growth in the captive units and companies preferring to or slowly moving in that direction. However, the current customer-base that we have, I’m not seeing too many shifts. So I’m not worried about that. But yeah, some of the larger customers do explore having their own operations in India.
Mihir Manohar
Understood. Sure. Correct. Yeah, that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Rahul Kanodia
Although I do — I do see very often captives and vendors coexisting in an enterprise. So they have a dual model where they do both.
Mihir Manohar
Understood. So sir, just one last — yeah, it’s just one last exchange. Hello, should I go-ahead?
Rahul Kanodia
Yes, please.
Mihir Manohar
Yes. So sir, one last question on these captive centers. I mean, we have seen captive centers built-up in the last two, three years. From a broader thought process perspective, from an industry perspective, I mean, when does captive centers start getting importance versus outsourced players? I mean, at what stage of industry does that happen, how does industry happen? Just wanted to understand that. Is it that when a new technology comes in, people tend to have more of captive sectors and slowing gradually eventually as and when it gets used, it gets start shifting to outsourcing. How does that happen?
Rahul Kanodia
No. So there is no pattern in the industry, and we’ve seen it across the board. Large companies have captives which they’ve divested. Small companies have started captives. So it’s just all over. There is no pattern as such. Typically, they don’t do it for new technology. New technology is easier with vendors because vendors service many more customers and therefore more exposed to technology. So that is certainly not a trigger, but there is no pattern in the industry as to who is inclined to go with a captive versus who is inclined to go with the vendor.
Mihir Manohar
Okay, understood. And this — I mean during the captive centership which we saw, it was in BFSI or tech and part of the piece?
Rahul Kanodia
BFSI.
Mihir Manohar
Okay, understood. That’s it from my side. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Sahil Jain from Enigma Investment Partners. Please go ahead.
Sahil Jain
Yeah, hi, sir. Am I audible?
Rahul Kanodia
Yes.
Sahil Jain
Yeah. So sir, with the increase in P&Q revenues, will we see a shift in the geographic concentration like will the US and the Europe concentration increase from the pie?
Rahul Kanodia
And then you will see and you have seen some of it already, but yes, you will see that piece increasing more in Europe than in the US because Data Malix’s ratio in the US and T&Q’s ratio in the US is roughly the same. So you won’t see too much impact on the US, but yes, you’ll see a growth in Europe.
Sahil Jain
So that will automatically into higher margins, right, from what we are currently doing in the?
Rahul Kanodia
That is correct.
Sahil Jain
Understood, sir. And sir, what — can you just give an outloo how the business is performing? Is there any sort of tariff impact or anything that is affecting that business hyperscal?
Rahul Kanodia
No, no tariff impact on that. I think that the whole tech and BPO industry is right now insulated from the tariff force. You never know what comes in the future, but as of now, I think it’s okay. Has been a little soft in performance, but this year we should have a — we should have an uptick. In fact, I mentioned in the last call that we have got five new logos from customer-base where we successfully cross-sold Salesforce services.
Sahil Jain
Understood. That was all from my side. Thank you.
Rahul Kanodia
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you, sir. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask a question you may press star and 1. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and 1. A reminder to all the participants if you wish to ask a question you may press star and 1 one.
As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Rahul Kanodia
Thank you everybody for being on this earnings call for the year ending ’24-’25. I look-forward to talking to you once again as we enter the new year in the next quarter. Thanks once again for your time with us.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Datamatics Global Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.