Data Patterns (India) Ltd (NSE: DATAPATTNS) Q4 2026 Earnings Call dated May. 15, 2026
Corporate Participants:
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan — Chairman and Managing Director
Venkata Subramanian Venkatachalam — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Prayasi Patel — Analyst
Dipen Vakil — Analyst
Kumari Rishika Singh — Analyst
Hardik Rawat — Analyst
Piya Bhatia — Analyst
Akshay Jogani — Analyst
Pujan Shah — Analyst
Garvit Goyal — Analyst
Shrinarayan Mishra — Analyst
Amit Sharma — Analyst
Sahil Karia — Analyst
Jenish Karia — Analyst
Santosh — Analyst
Aditya — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Data Patterns (India) Ltd Q4 FY26 earnings conference call hosted by GoIndia Advisors LLP. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Priyasi Patel from Goindia Advisors. Thank you. And over to you ma’. Am.
Prayasi Patel — Analyst
Thank you. Good morning everyone and welcome to Data Patents India Limited call to discuss the quarter 4 and FY26 earning call. We have the senior management of the company on call, Mr. S. Rangarajan, Chairman and Managing Director and Mr. Venkatesubamanyam, Chief Financial Officer. We have we must remind you that the discussion on today’s call may include certain forward looking statement and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risk that the company may face. May I now request Mr. Rangarajan sir to take us through the company’s business outlook and financial highlights subsequent to which we will open the floor for Q and A.
Thank you. And over to you sir.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan — Chairman and Managing Director
Thank you Priyasi. Good morning ladies and gentlemen and a very warm welcome to all of you to the quarter four and full year FY26 earnings call of Data Patterns India Limited. We sincerely appreciate your continued trust, support and participation. I hope all of you had the opportunity to review our earnings presentation which has been uploaded on the stock exchanges and our company website. Before Venkat takes you through the financial performance in detail I would like to briefly share some key business and operation highlights for the year.
FY26 has been a significant year for data patterns marked by strong execution, healthy order inflows, continued capability expansion and increasing participation across strategic indigenous defense programs. During the year we continue to strengthen our position across radars, electronic warfare systems, avionics, communication systems and strategic defense electronics supported by our strong in house design engineering capabilities built over nearly three decades. One of the key highlights of the year has been a strong momentum in order inflows.
During FY26 the company recorded order inflows of approximately 1121 crores increase of 216% year on year reflecting healthy demand across multiple defense and aerospace programs. The order inflows were well diversified across radar systems, avionics, electronic warfare services and strategic electronics applications, demonstrating increasing customer confidence in our technological capabilities and execution track record. The order book as on date stands at approximately 2062 crores including orders negotiated which provides a strong revenue visibility over the coming years.
In addition, we continue to see a healthy pipeline of opportunities across radar systems, electronic warfare and advanced defense electronics. Other than the order book, additional civil vendor contracts based on already supplied products which can justify into contract. This financial year stands at Rs. 1900 crores. Further based on previous delivery and performance of strategic system supplied, customers would like to place further contracts on such programs leading to significant order book acceptation.
We could get visibility of these contracts including timelines during the year. Our earlier investments made towards realizing EW suites including self production jammer pods for Indian fighter aircrafts have been well received by IAF and we are poised to take the next steps of flight testing. This will lead to revenue during the medium term. The opportunities being addressed by data patterns with in house developed large systems already delivered to customer as immediate requirement to address strategic space based surveillance and mitigation allowing data patterns to substantially increase revenue in the coming years towards building an order book of at least three years revenue ensuring predictable growth.
We are entering into an exciting phase in India with the defense aerospace industry set to grow substantially to reduce reliance on imports especially in this geopolitical situation. Further, with the advance of AI in all phases of business, Data Partners has leapfrogged into absorption where AI for processes as well as technology and products. This will allow Data Partners to introduce new world class products quickly to address the onion gap on Indian capabilities and products necessitating imports and reliance on foreign OEMs to meet our critical defense needs.
We’ve also repositioned some of our products to address the growing requirement of drone detection, spoofing and jamming with both radars and ESM products. These are an advanced phase of development and expect to bring in additional revenue in the medium term. We are investing in expanding our product development across radars for airborne platforms including surveillance and fire control including maritime applications which are either to the domain of Indian development agencies and foreign OEMs.
We expect these to bring in revenue over the next few years and also allow exports of complete products. Our export business also continued to progress steadily during the year. The export order book as on date stands at approximately 53 crores and exports remain an important strategic pillar of our long term growth roadmap. We are actively engaging with customers in Europe and other international markets while strengthening our export oriented marketing and business development initiatives. We continue to execute repeat business from UK and expect export momentum to improve meaningfully as our complete system capabilities mature.
Further, we believe that our revenue from exports will increase starting this year as most countries are increasing the spend on defense. Even the present geopolitical situation, we believe that the products and capabilities offered by Data Patterns will allow even Western countries to procure from data patterns leveraging our capabilities and much shorter time frames delivery time frames meeting their requirement. During the year 2425 we also achieved an important milestone with a successful development and and export of transportable position approach radars to a European country including successful site acceptance testing.
This reflects not only our technology capabilities but also the growing acceptance of Indian defense systems and engineering expertise in international markets. We’re also getting additional inquiries for these products in various countries. We believe the global defense industry is entering a multi decade investment cycle driven by rising geopolitical uncertainties, accelerated modernization programs and increasing focus on self reliance and defense manufacturing. Advanced electronics, radar systems, electronic warfare and intelligent surveillance capabilities are becoming central to modern defence preparedness globally.
This creates a significant long term opportunity for India’s indigenous defense ecosystem. With its strong in house design capabilities, advanced engineering expertise and proven execution track record, Data Patterns is well positioned to capitalize on this opportunity. Coming to our financial performance, FY26 has been another strong year for the company. Revenue FY26 grew by 31% year on year to 925 crores while EBITDA increased by 35% year on year to 371 crores. Looking ahead, the outlook of the Indian defence sector remains extremely strong.
We remain committed to delivering sustainable and profitable growth while continuing to invest in future technologies, strengthening our complete systems portfolio and maintaining a strong balance sheet. We continue to target revenue growth around 2025% over the short term while maintaining healthy ebitda margins of 38 to 40% and preserving our net cash status. Most importantly, beyond financial performance, we remain deeply committed to contribute towards India’s journey of technological self reliance and strategic defence capability development.
With that, I would now like to hand over the floor to our CFO Mr. Venkata Subramaniam to take you through the financial performance in greater detail.
Venkata Subramanian Venkatachalam — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you sir. Good morning ladies and gentlemen and thank you all for joining us today. We are pleased to report another strong year of operational and financial performance for data patterns. FY26 reflects a continued strength of our execution capabilities, resilient business model and increasing demand across strategic, defense and aerospace programs. Let me take you through the key financial highlights for the quarter and full year. FY25 26 Revenue from operations for FY26 stood at 925 crores as compared to 780 crores in FY25 registering a healthy growth of 31% year on year.
Gross profit for the year increased by 85% year on year to 585 crore due to increase in revenue and favorable product mix while gross margins improved to 63% compared to 61% in FY25. EBITDA for FY26 stood at 371 crores as again 275 crores in the previous year reflecting a growth of 35% year on year. EBITDA margins improved to 40% supported by operational efficiencies and improved absorption of the fixed costs. Profit after tax for FY26 stood at 271 crores registering a growth of 22% year on year while packed margin remains healthy at 29%.
Coming to the quarterly performance Q4.26 revenue stood at 345 crores while the revenue was lower by minus 13% year on year due to timing of execution of certain programs. Revenue nearly doubled sequentially with a growth of 99% quarter on quarter reflecting strong execution momentum during the quarter. Pertinent to also note that share of fourth quarter revenue was 37% in FY26 as against 55% in FY25. Graph margin for Q4FY26 improved significantly to 73% as compared to 49% in Q4 of last year. EBITDA for the quarter stood at 193 crores with EBITDA margins at 56 percentage while for the quarter stood at 139 crores with packed margin of 40%.
From a working capital perspective, we continue to see improvement in operational efficiency during FY26. Our cash conversion cycle improved meaningfully to 365 days in FY26 from 428 days in FY25 reflecting strong execution, better inventory management and continuous focus on disciplined working capital control. As of March 2026 our order book stood at approximately 926 crore. While including negotiated and expected orders, the order book pipeline remains strong at around 2,052 crores. Our order book continues to remain diversified across radar systems, avionics, electronic warfare, communication systems and strategic electronic applications.
The company continues to maintain a strong balance sheet and remains a debt free company. We believe our healthy liquidity position and disciplined capital allocation strategy provides us with the flexibility to continue investing in R and D infrastructure, advanced technologies and manufacturing capabilities going forward. We remain optimistic about the long term opportunities in the domestic and international defense sector and continue to focus on execution, operational efficiency, technology development and profitable growth.
With that, we would like to open the floor for question answers. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star n1 on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press STAR and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We will take our first question from the line of Deepen Vakil from Philip Capital India. Please go ahead.
Dipen Vakil
Hi. Thank you for this opportunity and congratulations on a great EBITDA margin and surpassing the revenue and guidance for the year. My first question is on the lines of your margin profile itself. So you have told us that you have told so this this quarter you had some great EBITDA margins. So can you help us understand as to what is the which product mix has led to such strong EBITDA margins And out of those order books, what kind of EBITDA margins can we expect going ahead?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
You see we have a differentiated product line. The margins for Q2 was much lesser because I earlier explained in that call also that there is a strategic program where we’ve taken a contract at a lower cost and the margin, but it’s built us capability to build a complete system and also the program management office which is necessary other than also demonstrating mechanical capabilities, which is not when we talk with an electronics company. So these are the takeaways from this contract and also our commitment that these will also lead to future contracts.
So we take some contracts with lower margin consciously to ensure that we build a capability product capability and also allows us future expansion. So that is the reason the last year quarter, quarter to quarter differences were there and though there’s a increase in revenue in quarter two and overall revenue has been as per guidance, slightly better than guidance. And the rest of the margin which we talk about is that is normally where our complete product development is done in house, where all the IP is created in house, we don’t import anything and integrate.
So this is in nature of exactly what we normally do. And since there is no bought out in those last quarter revenue and it is all our own full systems which has been developed by us, the margin profile was seen different. So you need to look at not, you know, you can’t give a direct guidance on, you know, contract to contract, how it will go in terms of EBITDA or margin. Because this is the overall business cycle. There are very many products and we take some products at different kinds of pricing based on our one, ability to absorb it.
Two, to see how the future of business is going to look at and the business prospects. We take a call on that and take a decision where to make an offer, how to quote it. This is what we’ve done and now that the opportunities are much larger and becoming much, much larger, we need to build a capability upgrade into the company to address larger opportunities going forward. I think I’ve answered your question. If anything else, please ask again.
Dipen Vakil
Yes sir, that was very much clear. So just so another thing on that. So you mentioned that you have currently 2000 crore of order books office. Thousand crore is already in the books and thousand crore expected. So any timeline on that as to when we can expect finalization of those thousand crore when negotiations are completed?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
I think in the next one to two months time we should expect the contracts to happen.
Dipen Vakil
Okay.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Unless of course there is some. You know, these are all government customers so I can’t predict for them. But our feeling is that it should happen in the next one to two months time.
Dipen Vakil
And over and above that we are expecting orders to the tune of 15 to 20 billion for FY27.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Yes. See what has happened is we have developed products earlier and those products during the course of this year will have repeat orders. So that has been projected at 1900 crores. So these are all single tender orders just expected during the course of the year. The timing is not exactly visible. That is why I said during the course of the next 12 months we should get additional order book which is based on already developed products and delivered and accepted by customers. And repeat requirements are already quoted for in some situations and inquiries have also come in for other wherever we’re talking about 1,900 crores, we’ve all been quoted for those requirements.
The only thing is some of the negotiations may have to happen and the timelines are not exactly in our control. But it should happen during the course of the year.
Dipen Vakil
Got it. Got it. So last question on the productions are so so up. So in this order inflow, what will be the proportion of the production order inflow which are expected to be like a short cycle order. So any indication on those that out of those 2,000 crore or maybe thousand crore but how much will be the quantum of the production orders,
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
I can’t give you exact ratio now what is already delivered? I said if you get the repeat order with 1,900 crores that will all be production orders. Because already we’ve done the on the existing 2000 crores. Some are service orders, some are already developed orders and some are new development which is going to take place. And so I don’t have the exact mix and percentages. But whatever we have taken up, even for development initiatives we’re taking up, we’re looking at it only with the perspective of future requirements are there for such products and programs.
So whatever we develop, we develop as building blocks and they have a future requirement in other applications as well. So that is how the development cycle is actually managed by the company. So I can’t give you exact number but there will be larger size production contracts, overall business we expect as we go along.
Dipen Vakil
Got it. So I have few more questions but I’ll get back on the queue. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rashika from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Kumari Rishika Singh
Hi, good morning everyone. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I have two questions. You indicated that you’re working with Global OEMs. I wanted to understand what’s the traction around that and if we have anything apart from uk. Secondly, when can we expect to get the order for Brahmo Seeker? Certain media articles indicate that the production is hampered. Will it have a material impact on our revenue growth in FY27?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Okay, first question is global OVMs. A number of them have started visiting us and quite impressed with whatever we’ve achieved in terms of capabilities and products. So similar products are required in Europe. So the inquiries have started coming from Europe for building such products and they quite like our prices in delivery time. I think in the next two, three months time or four months time we should start getting some contracts from these global OEMs which will lead into some development initiatives initially.
But then we will lead to year on year and quarter to quarter delivery for their actual military programs for which they are addressing their opportunities. So this is going to be not a one off system but it will be multiple systems based on what we already developed and modified to meet their OEM requirements. So this is one part of the story and exports is concerned. We also want to now expand our own export team, build a team to address exports because we believe that there is going to be increased look at India with our capabilities and delivery models which Europe and US and other countries would be looking at very seriously.
So I think this is a growing business and since we have done a lot of product development in house which matches the requirement immediately, I think there will be a lot of traction once we put the marketing team to address the opportunities. So we are going not just UK rather than UK also in Europe. Inquiries have started coming in. Other people who are visiting us also from us, from civil aviation and things like that, people have started visiting us and quite take an interest in our capabilities.
And inquiries have started coming in regarding Brahmos Seekers. The first variant of the development seeker order is under execution. Once that is execution is completed, I think the next 45 months time the production orders would start coming in. They’ve indicated production orders and they want it to be delivered before next year. Middle is what the customer is saying. So I don’t think there is going to be any distress on delivery timelines as far as Brahmos is concerned with our kind of seekers and systems.
Whatever orders was given in three, four months back in Brahmos we’ve already delivered and by March we delivered it. So our timelines for delivery is quite fast with respect to other competitors which were there in this line of business. So I don’t think we’ll have a problem in terms of revenue. And anyway this is part of the expected order of 1900 crores is what we projected, not in the orders in hand situation. So I don’t think there’ll be a revenue upset based on Brahmos even if there is a delay.
But I don’t think there’s going to be a delay.
Kumari Rishika Singh
Understood sir, that’s helpful. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Hardik Ravat from IFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Hardik Rawat
Thanks for the opportunity and congratulations team on a wonderful result. Sir, my first question would be with regards to the current order book. So we have some thousand odd crores of order book and we expect another thousand odd crores of negotiated orders to flow through in the coming month or two. Just wanted to understand, you know our order book mix. If I look at today the share of services and that is roughly 350 odd crores. The order book is at the end of fourth year. When you talk about the negotiated orders, could you give us an indication as to what part of this would pertain to services or and what part would pertain to product?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
I think about on this thousand odd crores which I’ve said maybe 100 crores will be on services but the rest on product delivery.
Hardik Rawat
So that would mean that in the next two months we’ll be Sitting on a product order book of about. We should be sitting again not understanding that you know the orders can be delayed. But our expectation is that we should be sitting at an. At a product order book of about 1500 odd crores. Would that be correct? 575 that you already have and some 900 odd crores that you’ll be getting.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Yeah, around that or even slightly higher.
Hardik Rawat
Got it sir. So now I want to understand, you know, since a large part of our product portfolio and because of our faster the execution has largely been short cycle, what do you expect us the execution cycle to be on the 1500 crores of orders that you’ll be sitting at in a month?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
That is not whether we can execute or not depends on the program requirements. Some of the program requirements are spread over three years delivery. Some is delivered to in a few months. So that varies from the contract to contract. And that will be mostly based on customer requirements not on or ability to deliver.
Hardik Rawat
No sir, I. I get that. What I’m trying to understand is that based on the delivery schedules that you have, what is your expectation in terms of order execution cycle? If you can break it down and what do you expect? Again we’re not holding you to this. But
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
We have projected about 20, 20% revenue growth. We won’t think we have a problem on those things. So that will happen. And if the other thousand crores things come in early, some part of it can be executed this year also. And that will also bump up our revenue model. So since we don’t have the exact timing, we have only projected this 2020 5% growth. But once the contracts are run, we already developed these products. Our execution timelines can be matching customer requirements or even earlier.
So depending on that the delivery model will happen. So at the present moment we don’t want to wage any kind of saying that we will do this this way because we know we are confident doing this. But this is, this is a base point. I think as the context starts coming in larger contracts, our projections may vary from quarter to quarter.
Hardik Rawat
Got it. So that’s very helpful sir. Another point was.
Operator
You may please rejoin the key for more questions.
Hardik Rawat
I think I just ordered. No worries.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management will be able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, kindly limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow up question, please rejoin the few. We will take our next question from the line of Rhea Bhatia from pnb. Please go ahead.
Piya Bhatia
Yes, so I just wanted to understand about the order inflow for the Europe, you said around 1500 to 2000 crores. This is apart from the 1100 crores that has been negotiated, right?
Hardik Rawat
Yes.
Piya Bhatia
Okay, so then would it be correct to assume that you’ll be ending the year with around 3,500 to 4,000 crores affordable?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
No, we will also be executing contracts which is coming in. No, I think it’s a bit early for that. We’ll come towards the year end. Before we give you the numbers, it’s a bit early because there are a lot of programs we’re working on. Some of the large contracts and strategic programs also the order may start coming in. If the order starts coming in, the order book size will grow plus the export revenue which is going to happen. So there are so many areas of product development and we are making offers to customer.
So it was successful. We will be able to have a very healthy order book going ahead. That is why in the opening remarks I mentioned that this is the first time I’ve given an all rounded view on the market and where we are in terms of investment models and product models and how the business is supposed to scale in the coming in the short and medium term. I’ve given you overall perspective on existing repeat business from existing deliveries, new things which can happen and then other areas where we are focusing on product development also plus the export and the repeat business we expected.
So we also said that if some of this what we predicted happens, we’ll have a healthy product order book which will also give us a clarity of quarter to quarter growth over the next two to three years time while we still strive for building larger businesses going ahead. So I think we have a fairly rounded view I’ve given on the opening remarks. So but to exactly tell you end of March, what will it be, I think towards Q2, Q3 depending on how we get the orders going ahead. That will give you better answers.
Piya Bhatia
Understood.
Operator
Thank you
Piya Bhatia
So much.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Akshay from AK Investment. Please go ahead.
Akshay Jogani
Hi sir, my one question is already answered and congratulations on the great setup number. And sir, my second question is how much cash flow from EBITDA are we expecting to generate in FY27 and going forward for the next two to three years? Because for the last two years our cash flow generation from operations has been very big
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
And I didn’t understand the question. What is this? Guest, what is that?
Akshay Jogani
What
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Did you ask?
Akshay Jogani
Sir, I am asking about the cash flow from operation since last two years. Our case law from operation has been very weak. So for the next two to three years. Yes. Guest from operating, sir. So cash flow
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
From operations. Okay. Okay. Yes.
Akshay Jogani
Yeah. So. Yes. So over the next conversion from ebitda, are we expecting.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
I don’t know. Venkat, you want to answer this question? The
Venkata Subramanian Venkatachalam
Cash conversion cycle today is at 365 days. We are seeing improvements year on year. We expect it to, you know, probably settle down at 32340 days going forward. But year on year we cannot at the beginning of the year. It’s very early to calculate all that and come out with an answer for this. But we are definitely focusing on reducing the workingable cycles and it is also showing some improvements year on year. Going by that we expect it to settle down at 340 to 300. I mean 320 to 340 days going forward.
But probably during the middle of the year we can take a review on this and some color can be given. But this is too early now.
Akshay Jogani
Okay Sir, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pujan Shah from Molecule Ventures. Please go ahead. You are audible.
Pujan Shah
Yes, yes. First question pertains to. So in the last our conquest we have said that we might receive the 1100 crore in one to two months timeline while that has been delayed. But while I was also reading some of the tenders participation and where we can be, I have seen that there is also an order of 1007 crores for pages in K1A. Is it possible? Is it the same order
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
1 and what is that order? 1007 crore. What is that
Pujan Shah
1007 crore order value for pages? MK1A
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Pages. Okay,
Pujan Shah
So is it the same order which I have been considering or you have been considering in the last phone call or it is just a different order altogether?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
These are not the Tejas one. Tejas one is part of some inquiries have come. We’ve quoted for whatever our products are going EV Onx is going into kgs. So this hopefully the order should come during the course of this year. It normally goes through a very large negotiation cycle with hal. So we have to wait and watch when the order is placed. But we’ve not projected anything on last year for kgs. We had orders in hand which we executed. But the new order projections is this year only we’re talking about.
Other than that orders on hand situation already delivered products which repeat orders may happen. For this we’ve already quoted and Tejas also we already quoted so we need to see when the contract comes. It will be only this year.
Pujan Shah
Okay, but I just want to. Because the tender was closed On I think 13th or 23rd of March. I don’t remember. And in 65 days of timeline it needs to be concluded on their side. So there is no update from on the portal or something like that. So how could we. I don’t know which
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
You’re talking about. I am not aware of what the what you’re talking about. So I won’t be able to comment on it.
Venkata Subramanian Venkatachalam
And to give you more clarity, actually the orders negotiated of thousand odd crore which was shown in the previous conference call. It’s not a single case, it’s multiple cases. Some of them. We’ve got the contract and that number now stands at 1090 crore. I mean we have got some more contracts negotiated in between last conference call and now so put together 1090 crore as on date as we speak. So including that our order book today stands at 2000 crore plus 2062 crore to be precise.
Pujan Shah
Right. You
Venkata Subramanian Venkatachalam
Wait for the
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Tejas order to happen and we’ll announce it to the market as and when the order happens.
Pujan Shah
Okay. I’m sorry to interrupt.
Operator
Poojan, you may please rejoin the queue for more questions. Thank you. We will take our next question from the line of Parvid Goyal from Seren Alpha. Please go ahead.
Garvit Goyal
Hi Amadou.
Operator
Yes you are.
Garvit Goyal
Good morning and congrats for good numbers. Sir, in your opening remarks you mentioned about some delays of certain programs. Can I know what kind of programs are these? And secondly, if these delays and these programs are getting deferred to AGA 27 then fundamentally your growth should be more than 25%. Then why we are speaking about 20, 25%. So that’s my first question.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
No, I never marked any. What is 13 programs? I don’t know what he is talking. Which 13 programs?
Garvit Goyal
Not 13, I’m saying you mentioned about some program getting delayed in execution in Q4 that will be deferring next year. That’s what you said, right?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
No, no, I never mentioned. I never said anything like that. I never said anything like that. I only compared quarter two to quarter four performances. And then there are expected orders from whatever we deliver in quarter two. But I never talked about any delays. I only talked about orders which is expected, let’s say another thousand nine hundred crores for repeat contracts. I’m not able to give you timelines on those orders because these are all government contracts. But I expect this to happen over the course of this year is what I said.
I never talked about delays on any. Any other thing.
Garvit Goyal
Okay, understood. Okay. So so if I look at the execution in Q4, it is falling behind. Q4 last year. Right. So we were having the order book in our hand. Right. So what is stopping us in executing those contracts? Like what is the reason behind the floor execution?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
There’s not a poor exhibition. Actually. Excuse me. Actually, very good. It’s not poor. It is a good execution. And execution is has to be in line with customer requirements. I may have an order on hand. But customer doesn’t want delivery today. There may be preconditions to our delivery. So based on customer request we deliver and based on the contract. So execution has not been poor. Actually, execution is very good. We delivered things in two months and three months. Which is very, very good.
And our board is very happy with the execution. How we manage the execution. So there’s no delay from our side. It’s a question of the agencies, government agencies getting together to approval. These kind of things normally go through a process. And that process delay is not, you know, addressed by us. We can’t address those process delays. But we will add an execution delay from our office.
Garvit Goyal
Understood? Understood. And secondly on. I’m sorry to interrupt.
Operator
I’m sorry to interrupt. Mr. Goyal. You may please rejoin the queue. Thank you. We will take our next question from the line of Sri Narayan Mishra from Baroda BNP Pariba. Please go ahead.
Shrinarayan Mishra
Thanks for the opportunity. So my first question is on the largest order that we have received in Q4. IMD runner development and service order. What would be the execution cycle for that order?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
The requirement is between over 18 months. We’re trying to see how fast we can deliver it.
Shrinarayan Mishra
Okay. And since I can see in the order backlog services mix has increased significantly. So would that mean trade receivable days would improve or how should we see that?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
No, no. You’re talking about services.
Shrinarayan Mishra
Yeah. In the order book, Services mix has increased significantly. Trade receivables
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Will not be increased because you won’t bill for services. Under the services are carried out, the only product delivery happens. We build only product development.
Venkata Subramanian Venkatachalam
The service Is part of the contract will be built as and when the services happen. And delivery of the services happen. So there are two independent parts to the order. So we will not build the overall amount and wait for services to happen over the next four, five years. That is not the way revenue recognition is done. It’s not done that way. Represents our AMC revenue. AMC is actually for multiple years. It’s not a single year anc.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
So there is a process for revenue recognition.
Shrinarayan Mishra
Sorry. Sorry, sir.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
The process revenue Recognition.
Shrinarayan Mishra
This is Not add to you know any what is receivables increase and all those things. So from the date of billing of a service order, how many days it takes to collect the amount, That depends on the customer. Depends On the customer and the processes involved. See
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
What we do is after the service again depends on the contract. Then the billing can start we at the end of the service contract one year over. The annual billing can be at the end of the year or it is quarterly billing and quarterly. So it depends on the contract varies from contract to contract and the payment cycle terms varies from customer to customer.
Shrinarayan Mishra
But in general, if you were to generalize is it better than production orders? I can’t
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Generalize because you’re uniquely government agencies are there. IMD is our first case which is taken up now. So until we get some money transfer from IMD we won’t be able to generalize.
Shrinarayan Mishra
Okay. Okay. Thank you for answering my question. Yeah,
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Thank you. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Amit Sharma, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Amit Sharma
Hello. Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity sir and congratulations on great set of numbers. I have two specific questions. One related to our current order book. So we have about 38% of our current order book coming from services which has roughly an elongated execution cyclo. So does that and even negotiated order book of 1090 crore. Within that also we have a sizable amount coming from services. So does that put a pressure for us in terms of our growth size? Would our growth will be say 25% growth?
Would that be a pressure point for us for the coming year as well as for next year at 28.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Okay, this question has already been asked and answered. 1090 crores. I gave an approximately about 100 crores to be services. The rest is product delivery. So it will not affect the our top line revenue growth as what we Projected we projected 2025%. We believe we should be able to do this. On top of why we said we should build this is also that there are a number of repeat contracts we’re expecting during the course of the year. When it happens early then we can deliver those products earlier.
So that also will bring in additional revenue or you know either the part of the revenue projections or over and above the revenue positions. You can do that. So it depends how the order inflow happens during the course of this year.
Amit Sharma
So basically what we are seeing is that the quick execution order book like we had in the current year is what we are largely depending on for the to achieve the ballpark. Number that we are guiding for the current year.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Yeah, we believe it will be substantially higher than the guidance number is what we expect. Because I think a lot of long term initiatives the company has taken and I think those initiatives one by one will start rectifying into contracts once it starts getting contracts. Our order book situation should grow substantively in the coming years is what we expect. And we have, you know, developed products and over a period of time to ensure that this we can scale the company very quickly into multiple thousand crore company rather than scale it 20% year on year.
That is not what we’re looking at in the management cycle here. We’re actually looking at some very high scalability in the coming years and the strategy and product development mix is working towards how to build that scalability and sustainable scalability is what we’re working on.
Amit Sharma
Got It, got it. Answered my second question. I’m sorry to interrupt.
Operator
Amit, you may please rejoin the queue. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sahil Kariya from Whitebine Investment. Please go ahead.
Sahil Karia
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
I can’t hear you at all. I can’t hear you at all. Can you come to nearer the phone and call? Yeah,
Venkata Subramanian Venkatachalam
I’m sorry to interrupt. Sahil,
Operator
Can you use your handset mode please?
Sahil Karia
Yeah. Am I audible now?
Operator
Yes please.
Sahil Karia
Yeah. So apart from Ramos missiles programs are delivering CPAs and IR products too. And for which products could we be the vendors?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
I’m still very confused with your question. You’re not very audible.
Sahil Karia
Apart from Brahmos which are the missile programs are we delivering products to and for which products are we L1 vendors?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Other than the Brahmos product, there is one other program for the air defense. We’ve done a seeker that is under delivery mode now. But there are no other programs on the missile area. They’ll be working on Seekers. But as a, as a concept we want to take up initiatives to build other kinds of Seekers, Electropic etc Seekers on our own and where we were positioning ourselves with an industry partner to see that we can hit the revenue model as we go along. But those are all developing initiatives internal to office.
But as of now we don’t have anything else because we work on whatever DRDO allows us to do. We develop the products as per the requirement. So till then it will be now controlled by DRDO or the missile program itself. As and then the missile program becomes opened up, other agencies start building, large corporates start coming into the business. Then maybe we should be able to do a large part of the Design and have a ecosystem which will develop the system that yet to happen.
Sahil Karia
Okay. I’m really sorry,
Operator
Sahil. You may please rejoin the queue for more questions. Thank you. A reminder to all the participants. Kindly restrict yourselves to one question only. In case of follow up question, please rejoin the queue. We will take our next question from Janish Karia from Union emc. Please go ahead.
Jenish Karia
Yeah. Good morning sir. Am I audible? Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. So my question is on the MCA program. Any update on our consortium’s position for the MCA program? And irrespective of the outcome of the which consortium is winning. What would be our opportunity within the MCA program?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
The Ankara program RFP is expected anytime now. So that is the first status. Second is on the AMCA weave. The glass cockpit is developed by US Emission Systems is developed by US for the LT Mark 2 which is going to be taken to AMCA. We are hoping that as we go along more such on the sensors and RWR and radar and things like AS and when we are able to develop products and it is acceptable customer. All such programs will follow. At the present moment we have only the cockpit solutions and machine management system is being done by us.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Santosh from. I thought bms. Please go ahead.
Santosh
Am I audible?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Yes.
Santosh
Okay. So I just want to know like what are the negotiated order of south growth? You did say that if the delivery skills are okay we might deliver some of those contracts this year. Would that growth be over and above the current of 2025% you’re waiting for?
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
No, I never mentioned. I think you misheard me misunderstood the whole thing which I’ve answered. I never said the thousand crores. We totally talked about out of the hand expected orders. That is negotiated with thousand crores. I never said that this will be delivered earlier and things like that. I talked about other,900 crores. If it were to come similarly under businesses that happen during the course of the year comes in early then I can issue with them early. That is what I talked about. Not on the contracts on hand.
I didn’t understand. What is the second part of the question?
Santosh
No, just asking that if that thousand crore. If the delivery schedule is allowing you to get the revenue today. Would that be over and above the guarantee for because is there any capacity constraint is my question as well.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
No. We are building large capacities for expert contracts already capacity plus we are building something about nine floors of factory space to build an additional capacity to see that we. You know the larger as we the program Sizes increase and the volume of contracts increase to scale to a multi thousand crore company. We already you know started investing on capex and infrastructure expansion because it takes one to two years time. So we already in the process of doing it for seekers and other things.
We already put the best building blocks and infrastructure necessary to ramp up production. Already we’ve done that. So I don’t think we will have a problem in execution as soon as it happens. We are aware of when this will happen. Of course the timelines are not very predictable but so we have to cautious view of not overspending an infrastructure and the contract don’t happen. I don’t want to sit on you know, CapEx infrastructure there so this has to be judiciously implemented. But we are aware that scaling is going to happen substantively and we are taking aggressive position on terms of capex infrastructure to address the scaling requirements as we go along.
Santosh
Okay sir, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Deepen Vakil from Philip Capital India. Please go ahead.
Dipen Vakil
Hi sir, thank you for the follow up opportunity. So I wanted to understand on your product development and also on the Virupaksha component for the Virupaksha radar that you had supplied to Indian Airport as well. So any update on that as to what is the progress, how was the response and if there’s any concrete order which way which we can expect from there. And you also mentioned about the new areas of development around anti drone systems, drone detection. So can you tell us about more about the timeline as to when these products will start getting commissioned or other in that approval stages and we can expect some revenue from them.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Okay, first is Virupaksha is not our product. ViruPaksha is a DRDO project name for the SUP i30 radars. This is not ours, we call it by different name. So we never delivered Virupaksha or anything equivalent to Air Force as yet. So that is the wrong information you have received. So we have our own versions of it and we believe that that will also be taken up by Air Force in the coming years. But because of the uncertainty and timelines which I can’t predict, we’ve not given revenue expectations out of those things and in our opening remarks similarly when you talk about anti drone, yes products are getting done.
We will be participating in demonstrating the products to army and Air Force and whatever. So that will happen but again we don’t have clear timelines when what will happen quoting in some locations and if we are successful the quotes we will may get the Order but these are all things which is again a quote and competition basis. So timelines are. And revenue model is not what you say very clear now. So. But then we need to expand the product portfolio and be aware of what is happening when the need of the customer is trying to address the need overall.
So we’re developing a number of products and these are all repurposed products. Already we have done something with incremental effort of three, four months. I can position the products so it makes sense to do that and our product will be reliable and meeting the specifications. So we believe that there will be some revenue model going ahead. But I can’t predict anything at the present moment. On new product development we don’t do revenue predictions unless clarity is there for the market and it is an acceptance stage and later requirements started.
Inquiries are coming in. I can’t give you projections. I will be talking about the overall business environment and product development to help the investors to understand how scalability we are going to ensure that we can be a larger business going ahead in the next two, three years time. That is how the overall business perspective and product development has been explained. Not to the exact revenue model. I can’t give you numbers like that.
Dipen Vakil
I’m also looking for the timeline on the new product development as to when we can expect the new products to start coming into your product portfolio per se.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
That will all happen as it’s happening already. But that depends on the product. Antidone is a smaller system so it can happen quickly. But the other, you know, the other AWS suite for sepjammer is a two year two and a half year initiative which you take it up and in the next one year will come to conclusion. It depends on the product and the complexity of the project and program and the acceptance models. Air trials have to be done. It takes a longer time. It takes 12 years time to do air trials.
So why I give you the overall perspective is that we are not only looking at contracts now. We are also looking at shorter term, some kind of product development initiatives and repeat contracts. Slightly medium term. We’ve already invested and continue to invest in new products and products which is actually needed by the country which is not presenting position. No Indian company is positioning. Only foreigners are positioning products there. So in competition to products our products should be far more economically priced and support systems are going to be far superior as long as the product meets world class specifications.
So. So based on that there are low hanging fruits. But timelines are not predictable. So we will not predict timelines and revenue Models out of that.
Dipen Vakil
Got it sir thank you for answering my question and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Aditya from Aventus Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Aditya
So hi sir, congratulations on your set of numbers. My doubt is regarding our competitive peer which is Astra Microwave. I’ve been following the different companies assets in this case Astra Microwave is also like in line with providing more on complete system like similar to us they have been transitioning in that aspect. So how are we trying to position ourselves in case of the competitive trends when compared to one such peer like let’s say in case of systems and orders which we are going to.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
I would like to comment on specific and competition and open line so I will reference and answer this question.
Aditya
So that’s all for questions from my side sir if possible could you just explain more on our technological side in case of our product development which is of our R and D and then like details more on the technical part of it.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Yeah, we have a strong in house technology open team. We are nearly about 1200 engineers working with us. So as what we’ve done all through the years we develop products and write off the revenue expenses except in few cases where we did a QIP fund for product development which is capitalized. We don’t do capitalizing. We continue to do enormous amount of product development as part of our yearly requirements and then have the product ready for markets which we perceive or we believe is going to open up to us.
So we take such kind of initiatives and upfront investment products and we’re investing now products on radar. So full earlier only the hardware is being done by us because the DRDO software is done by them. All the markets opened up, we decided that we build a software and full radars. So we’ve done a few radars and some of them have been exported. Now we’re building the drone detection radars. We want to get into the airborne radar programs. So we are doing the airborne development programs for airborne radars including software complete radars.
We were doing the iff, we wanted the mission systems. We want to do the EW already it’s flying. So we want to enhance the scale of ew the communication intelligence. We want to do world class systems, the increasing specifications to see that it is a top of the line world class specifications are met. So like that in every product area we’re trying to improve the product capability and address it with the world markets and see that we are in line with the world systems so that we can offer Best solutions for India and not, you know, second to none is what we’re trying to do.
So our area of focus is if you take avionics, you know, radio, mission systems, communications, radars, ew, iff, a lot of other things which goes into UAV platforms and parts of the radar. As for DRDO requirements, complete radar solutions, wherever we can do that, exude of these parts, assistance to international OEMs, all of this is what we’re looking at. We have fairly deep technological capabilities in all of them and we have a very strong group of people who’ve been with this company for 20, 25 years, will drive this technology and also the middle management on engineering for all 15, 20 years in the company.
So it’s a very homegrown kind of an organization where there are no levels, product talks and all of us listen. So the idea is to develop products which is world class with the market opening up and we want to build a large scale company going ahead.
Aditya
Thank you sir.
Operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. We will take that as the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Srinivasagopalan Rangarajan
Thank you all for joining in on this conference call. Earnings call for Q4 and the year 2526. I’ve taken time to give you an overall perspective of how our business is going and where we are trying to develop products. The intent is to see that we scale up multiple times in the coming years. The market opportunities are very very large considering that India has been importing all our different systems and these are core competencies in IP driven products. We have been completely dependent on foreign OEMs who don’t share the details and do a manufacturing only in India.
As against that we want to build our own capability and full products to see that they are completely self reliant and with world class products. Some of our initiatives have started giving some results and some orders are going to come on the EW which we competing with Germany. We got some contract, we want to get some contracts, tenders have been opened, negotiations completed, so things like that. Similarly on the EW jamming we have done all this including the software, the mechanical systems, the cooling systems, the electronics which is world class.
So we believe that also should give us some substantive revenue opportunities going ahead. The third area is what we already developed and we take in some additional risks in addressing these opportunities because we believe it will help us build scale repeat orders as well as build program management capabilities in the company. You take them and successfully execute the contracts, customers quite happy. So we believe that there will be some additional requirements will come up which will build scale into the company.
Fourthly is we are looking at exports. Till now that has not been a focus area but with the geopolitical environment the export then now takes a precedence because a lot of companies are looking at how quickly can we deliver products for their military programs. So we’re trying to address it similarly in US programs and we need to now have a team to go and address Japan to Korea to Europe to UK to other countries including us so that we are trying to put a team together to see how to address this.
We’re also looking at how do we scale capabilities in terms of electro optics. So what is it we need to do to build in electropics? Not just electronics company and domain. So domain and electronics mechanical all we’ve integrated together to build our own systems. So I’ll give you an overall idea. We’re very bullish like I said on the growth opportunity of what India offers today and since we’ve been importing everything it is up to us for grabs. Obviously there are time lapse and it’s government agency so we need to be aware of that and not do over investment and then have competition.
Foreigners who come on the back route and put in infrastructure then you lose the business. So we are cautious of the development and what we are putting money in. So but overall I think we are taking the right approach and direction and the board and the technology board and the company are quite clear that they are going the right track. So we will continue to build like this and scale the company quite quickly. This is what we expect. Very bullish on database growth going ahead. Thank you very much for your listening patiently for this.
If you have any further questions please pass it on to Goindia Advisors and we’ll get them answered to you through them. Thank you all. Thanks for listening in.
Operator
Thank you very much on behalf of Goindia Advisors. That concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us today and you may now disconnect your lines.