Coromandel International Limited (NSE: COROMANDEL) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 02, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Sankarasubramanian — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Jayashree Satagopan — President, Corporate and Chief Financial Officer
Deepak Natarajan — Chief Financial Officer
Raghuram Devarakonda — Executive Director, CPC, Bio Products and Retail
Analysts:
S Ramesh — Analyst
Prashant Biyani — Analyst
Rahul Jain — Analyst
Ankur Periwal — Analyst
Naushad Chaudhary — Analyst
Viraj — Analyst
Vignesh Iyer — Analyst
Somaiah V — Analyst
Himanshu Binani — Analyst
Ranjit Cirumalla — Analyst
Vipulkumar Shah — Analyst
Rohit Nagraj — Analyst
Sheel Shah — Analyst
Ramesh — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
, good day, and welcome to International Limited Q4 FY ’25 Earnings Call hosted by Nirmal Bank Institutional Equities Private Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assessions during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr S. Ramesh. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
S Ramesh — Analyst
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Equities, I inviting all of you for the 4Q FY ’25 earnings call with the management of International. The company is represented by Mr, MD and CEO; Dr Devanakanda, Executive Director, CTC Bio and Retail; Ms Jesry, President Corporate and the new CFO, Mr Deepak. So let me hand over the call to Shankar for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir. Thank you.
Sankarasubramanian — Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer
Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks, Ramesh, for organizing this call. Well, let me give a brief on the business environment experienced during the year and then we’ll talk about the company’s performance followed by a Q&A session. India experienced the positive agriculture environment during ’24-’25 aided by above-normal monsoons and higher reservoir levels leading to higher crop sewings. As per the latest estimate for ’24, ’25, the food gain production is estimated at 331 million ton in case of close to 5% over the last year.
As per national statistical office, the gross value-added in agriculture and allied activities for the financial year ’24-’25 is projected to grow by 4.6% as against 2.7% last year and this reflects a positive turnaround in the agri sector. With a good monsoon during Rabi, levels as on-date is much comfortable at 36% compared to 30% last year with South, Central and West regions well-above last year level. Going-forward, the weather-forecasting agencies like SkyMet and IMD have estimated normalty above-normal monsoon for the upcoming season.
Our key operating markets are expected to receive good rains. IMB has also issued updated forecast providing region-wise view in the last week of May. Summer sewings have started on a positive note. As on 18th April, the crop stood at seven compared to six sectors last year. Coming to the policy front, irrigation infrastructure has been making lot of progress. The area under issued irrigation has increased from 45% in 2010 to 55% in 2021, resulting in increased cropping intensity.
In its budget, Andhra State has committed an outlay of INR18,000 crores for various irrigation projects, which includes to be implemented in ’25-’26. Similarly, Telangana State also got the clearance for integrated lift irrigation project and multipurpose project, which is expected to bring close to 8 lakh acres under issued irriation. Direct income schemes like PM are gaining good traction. Pradesh government has recently-announced implementation of another scheme and this proposes a deposit of INR20,000 annually, including the PM scheme of INR6,000 into farmers account.
As you all know, Telegon has also introduced the right to scheme and it intends to provide cash transfer of INR12,000 per-acre annually. All these are increasing the disposal income in the hands of the farmers and government has announced Newton base of three rates for 2026 with increase in P rate by almost 42% in-line with increasing in global DAP prices and increase in other input raw-material prices. The cabinet has also extended one-time special package of INR3,50 per metric ton on DAP beyond the NBA subsidiary for up to 30th September ’25 and also given additional compensation to make DAP imports viable.
During the last year, most of the fertilizer raw-material prices remained broadly stable, slightly at a higher-level. Recently, sulfur sulfuric acid prices went up very-high as a result of demand from China, Indonesia and Morocco. The phosphoric acid price for Q1 has been fixed at, reflecting an increase of $98 per ton over the previous quarter. This is perfectly in-line with the significant increase in DAP price witnessed during this period. During the year, domestic phosphate industry increased its production by 9% to 15 million tonnes.
There has been a significant shift in the consumption mix with NPK sales moving up by 28% to 14 million tonnes and replacing a DAP shortfall, especially in Central and northern markets despite the lower MRP of DAP. Looking at the whole year number, the share of NPK has moved up to 60% as compared to 15% in the last year. DAP supplies were impacted due to lower supplies from China and also MR jurisdictions affecting the viability of imports for the domestic as well as import of DAP.
During the year, the crop production industry experienced reasonably stable volumes and going-forward into 2025, market is expected to be relatively positive with stabilizing agrochemical prices, improved inventory situation and favorable weather conditions in Europe, Asia and Brazil. Some of our key molecules have received good interest from the market and we do expect situation to further improve in the coming periods. Coming to coming — company’s performance for the year, our manufacturing plants undertook capacity debottlenecking to deliver highest-ever volume of 33.3 lakh tons with a high-level of safety and environmental management.
Our renew unit safely resumed the phosphoric acid and sulfuric acid plants after obtaining all necessary statutory clearances and company’s fossil acid production, including went up by 6% during the year. The major integration projects for sulfuric acid plant at are on-track and is expected to be commissioned in the current financial year ’25-’26. We have also initiated work on the brownfield granulation train at Kakinada, which is expected to come on-stream in the year ’26-’27.
The company has obtained all requisite approvals from Government of Senegal and has increased the shareholding in the mining company BMCC to 54% and now BMC has become subsidiary of. It has stabilized the production through setting up a fixed processing plant and the throughput has significantly improved over the earlier quarters, resulting in the business achieving operational profitability in the last two quarters.
Going-forward, we do expect consistent supply of rock phosphate from BMCC, which can meet one-third of our total requirements for. Companies also signed a long-term contract with, one of the world’s largest producers of phosphoric fertilizers for the long-term supply of DAP and NP&PK fertilizers. On the marketing side, registered record sale of phosphoric fertilizers and record consumption in the year ’24-’25, increasing the volume by 13%.
The share of unique grades stands at 35%. On consumption basis, the market-share for has improved to 18% from 15% over last year. As part of its market diversification approach, company has forayed into north and central markets that received good response making a pan-India player in. On the SSP front, our sales volumes for the year were up by 18% with major growth coming from differentiated variants like Grow Plus and.
Drone spraying services delivered through Promo Drive initiative and retail centers achieved significant scale, covering close to 2.2 lakh acres and is witnessing strong adoption by the farming community. Specialty business, mainly comprising of water-soluble fertilizers, secondary micronutrients and organic fertilizers had a good year. The volumes have been consistently growing year-after year. The business also introduced cross specific and stage specific products to expand its portfolio.
The business commissioned a sulfur plant to double its capacity. It’s also evaluating creating water fertilizer capacity by leveraging its strengths in phosphates. Nano DAP business continued its focus to promote awareness of the product. During the year, the company has marketed 26 lakh bottles, maintaining a market-share of 33%, achieving close to 80% of liquidation. Business is also seriously evaluating the export opportunities of Nano DEP across various countries.
Coming to Crop protection bio business, the revenue from Crop protection business were up by 7% to INR2,637 crores, led by higher sales in formulation, which has grown by 16%, export grown by 5% and Bio grown by 9%. EBIT margins are up by 25% to INR363 crores as improved demand for its key molecules in domestic and export markets and performance of new products and captive molecules enhance the profitability for the business.
Share from sale of new products in formulations is at 21%, up from 15% last year. In business, despite a slowdown in cigaret incidacting export markets, the business achieved volume and sales growth. As part of its diversification strategy, it expanded into plant extracts and And launched VAM-based biofertilizers. The business has also built in-house fermentation microwheel R&D capabilities and plans to launch microwheel crop protection products in ’25-’26. During the year, the signed a definitive agreement to acure controlling stake in NHCL Industries. The proposed acquisition will position as one of the leading players in the Indian crop protection sector with a wide range of technicals and pan-India presence in domestic formulation business. This will help in expanding scale, accelerate its entry into contract manufacturing business, fast-tracking new product commercialization, expanding its product portfolio. We expect the transaction closure and regulatory approvals to come through by Q2 of this year. Coming to retail, during the year, the retail business of the company expanded its footprint by adding another 130 monogromos centers in Andhra, Telangana, Karnataka and also we into new markets like Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu. We are expanding our digital presence through app and other social media platforms. With 99% of the stores profitable, we are looking at expanding our presence in coming years. With that, I will now hand over to to take you through the company financial performance. Over to you, Jayshri.
Jayashree Satagopan — President, Corporate and Chief Financial Officer
Thanks, Shankar, and good afternoon, everyone. Let me quickly take you through the company’s financial performance. In terms of the turnover, the company recorded a consolidated total income of INR5,114 crores during the quarter and INR24,44 crores for the full-year vis-a-vis the corresponding period of INR3,996 crores for the quarter and INR22,290 crores for the full-year. This registers a growth of 28% for the quarter and 10% for the full-year.
The increase in revenues has been mainly on account of growth in volumes registered across all our businesses. The breakup of subsidy and non-subsidy share of business stands at 79% and 21% during the last quarter. Previous year, the percentages were 78% and 22%, respectively. For the full-year, it’s 82% and 18% for the corresponding period in the last year, it is 83% and 17%. As far as the profitability is concerned, the consolidated EBITDA for the quarter was INR426 crores against INR273 crores during the last year.
For the full-year, it was INR2,628 crores against INR2,399 crores during the last year. The increase in EBITDA is mainly due to volume growth across the businesses and margin expansion in our CPC business. Subsidy non-subsidy share stands at 67% and 33% during the quarter. During the previous year, it was 53% and 47%. For the full-year, the breakup is 70% and 30%. Corresponding figures for the previous year is 72% and 28%. The Board had approved a final dividend of INR9 per share.
This includes normal final dividend of INR6 per share and a one-time special dividend of INR3 per share. On subsidy, during the quarter, the, the company received INR2,90 crores towards subsidy claims. Comparative figure in the last year was INR2,65 crores. For the full-year, subsidy received is INR8,082 crores. Previous year, it was INR9,998 crores. The government has been prompt in clearing the subsidy dues. As of today, we have received our subsidy claims till third week of March.
Subsidy outstanding as on 31st March 2025 was at INR654 crores. During the previous year, it was INR1,377 crores. As far as ForEx is concerned, you would have seen that the rupee had been pretty volatile during the quarter. It traded in a broad range of 85.39 to 87.71. Continued to follow a conservative approach and has hedged most of its exposures. I have with me Deepak Natrajan, who has recently joined us as the CFO in Korumandel.
And let me hand over the call to him for a brief introduction. Thank you all for your interest in Korumandels and joining us for the call today. Deepak, over to you.
Deepak Natarajan — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you,. Good afternoon, everyone. A pleasure connecting with you all. Myself, Deepak. Come here with about 25 years of work experience. Last five years I used to work for Tata Projects Limited and then prior to that with GE for 10 years and Cisco for six years. So that’s my brief background. Look-forward to connecting with you going-forward in the subsequent quarters in more detail. Thank you.
Jayashree Satagopan — President, Corporate and Chief Financial Officer
With that, we can open the session for questions and we look-forward to the interactions.
Operator
Before that, I would like — I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr Ramesh. Thank you and over to you, sir.
S Ramesh — Analyst
Thank you. Hello. Let me on behalf of Nimal Ban myself, first thank Jesry for being very receptive to the investor questions and increase the level of disclosures in the company. And let me also take this opportunity to welcome Deepak. Welcome, Deepak. Pleasure to have you on the call and look-forward to continuing our association. So let me now hand over the call-back to the company and moderator can announce the Q&A, please.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you so much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press char and one on the touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press char and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles the first question is from the line of Prashant Biyani from Elara Capital. Please go-ahead thank you.
Prashant Biyani
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity and congrats on good set of numbers. On the NSCL, how do we plan to turn-around NSCL and by when can we see NSCL aligning with our Crop protection division margin.
Sankarasubramanian
Please, right now we are waiting for the regulatory approvals, which may take another two, three months and post which we should take stock of what are the opportunities available. But as we mentioned earlier, we need to put the process back-in procurement, which will improve the EBITDA margin by significantly working on the procurement efficiencies. And the funding is coming through for them so that they will be able to increase their level of production and operation and some other molecules what they are dealing with also see some price traction in the marketplace.
So our aim would be to continue what they have been doing well and try and see how do we restore the margins what they’ve been making two years before, before we look at introducing new molecules and new products. They do have spare capacity, which can be leveraged. They have R&D setup, which can again be synergized. And there are quite a few molecules which are completely complementary to what we have. So we should be able to tap the export market as well.
Prashant Biyani
Sure. Sir, we also had a plan of investing INR1,000 crore in crop protection spec chem CDMO. Now post this acquisition, do we see that INR1,000 crore capex being trimmed? And if yes, by how much?
Sankarasubramanian
No, I won’t say it will be trimmed. It will be moderated because the active ingredients capacity creation can be slowed down since we have spell capacities, which can be leveraged. So that helps us in two-ways, reduce our cash outgo at the same time to go-to-market faster because the time it takes to set-up the facility can be shortened considerably may have to do the retrofitting of existing facilities. But in terms of other investments on CDMO and specialty chemicals, there are new business opportunities, which maybe depending on the new molecules, chemistries, what we are signing-up may require that investment.
So that may — we are evaluating the products in which we need to get-in specialty chemicals and we are also on discussion with various players and CDMO opportunities. So that investment will be more linked to the calendar of new products signed-up with the parties rather than NHCL being a reason. So it’s a slight deferment in the investment plan, but we are on the track.
Prashant Biyani
Right. And sir, regarding our agreement with MADEN, annually, how much fertilizers do we plan to import with them and in total as
Sankarasubramanian
Right now the contract is for 300,000 and we We can potentially go up to off 1 million ton. Our aim would be to see how much we can enhance our DAP imports from the long part of long period, so that will help us to maximize our NPK production in our existing facilities.
Prashant Biyani
Okay, this 3 lakh is per annum.
Sankarasubramanian
Yes.
Prashant Biyani
Okay. And before I join the queue, last question, how is our capex plan going on and how much do we plan to invest this year-on various projects?
Sankarasubramanian
And the projects what we announced last year as a sulfuric acid is progressing well. 45% of the project has been completed both on PASA and we are on-track to commission this during last quarter of the current financial year. As part of granulation train, we have commenced the project in January and that will take 18 to 20 months-to complete. That will come on-stream by ’26, ’27. Besides that, in the next year, we’ll be looking to expand our capacities on active ingredients at Dahej for CPC and we are also looking to debottleneck some of our facilities, both in and to increase the volumes and other normal sustainable capex we are looking at. So whatever annual sustainable capex that will continue. And we’ll also look at any inorganic opportunities as an opportunity arises complementary to our product portfolio, we may look at it.
Prashant Biyani
Right. I shall join back the queue. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Rahul Jain from Clearwater Partners. Please go-ahead.
Rahul Jain
Yeah, thank you so much and congratulations on good set of numbers. I just had a follow-up on NSEL. So as already told by you that the approvals will come in Q2 and only after that, you will decide. But then if I take a 10,000 feet view, say three years from now, where do you actually see NSEL? So before acquisition, you must-have set some targets. So what — where do you see NACL, say, three years from now?
Sankarasubramanian
The NACL is to get back-in terms of the capacity utilization. They have invested in that age facility, which is not operational fully. So our aim would be to see how we can get those new molecules in-place and operate those key ingredients and bring the capacities of the AI at full level. And second segment is the formulation, domestic formulation. They have strong brands and we should try and see how best we can grow the formulation business and change the —
Rahul Jain
At full capacity, sir, what could be the potential top-line that this company could generate based on current pricing scenario?
Sankarasubramanian
It’s too early to comment on it and they should at least we minimum go back to the numbers what they have achieved two years before and without considering any new add-ons.
Rahul Jain
Okay. I have one more follow-up on this acquisition itself. So today has some INR2,500 — close to INR2,600 crores of crop protection business. NACL as it is does some INR1,450-odd crores and the ballpark calculation, if I do then at full potential, they could do some INR2,500 odd crores of top-line. Is there any plan of creating a separate entity where the crop protection division of and NACL merge and that becomes your crop protection entity and the becomes a pure-play fertilizer entity. Any thoughts on the?
Sankarasubramanian
No, there is no such plan and at this point of time. Currently, we are trying to run NACL as such and we will achieve the targets what we set-out ourselves at the time of acquisition. And SBU, CPC crop production business has its own set of product pipeline and strategic plans to expand capacities. Both will leverage the synergies, but we’ll continue to operate this way. Let me see it appropriate team, but all the best for the investors and shareholders, we’ll do that.
Rahul Jain
Okay. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankur from Axis. Please go-ahead. Go-ahead.
Ankur Periwal
Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Great. Thanks for the opportunity. So first question on the crop protection side. So one, if you can highlight what has been the volume metric growth for the full financial year? And just a follow-up on that, what could be the growth outlook here given the price deflation trend that we have seen historically and hopefully it settled now and your outlook on the margin side
Sankarasubramanian
We operate in different segments, very difficult to put one number to the volume part of it because A, we measure it in volume and in the case of domestic formulation, we track in crores, putting a number in terms of the volume may not be meaningful. I would suggest we should look at some high-end double-digit growth for the next year across these three segments, domestic formulation, domestic B2B and exports market.
Our outlook is quite positive and facing on the success we had on new product introduction in the current year, we have pipeline of products coming in next year as well, which will continue to take our share of new products in the overall portfolio and improve the margins. So all I can say is our turnover for the next year can be — our revenue can be on the high double-digit side, supported by healthy profitability margin with a changing portfolio towards high-margin products.
Ankur Periwal
Sure, sir. Okay, fair enough. And just secondly on the fertilizer side, given the new capacity coming in probably by FY ’27, what is the timeline that we are looking at for a full ramp-up over here given the capacity expansion as well as the backward integration. And again, your earlier guidance of 40-odd percent jump-in EBITDA margin on the fertilizer side, what timeline can we — can we think of over there?
Sankarasubramanian
In the case of intermediate capacities, phosphoric acid acid, which will get commissioned in the 4th-quarter of the current year, we can expect the full play to come in the next year ’26, ’27 because we will be stabilizing our production in the 4th-quarter of the current year, which means next year will be the full-year of operation where we will always achieve the rated capacity. That has been our track-record. Our aim would be to do that as well for phosphoric acident sulfuric acid plant.
In the case of granulation plant, the plant will get commissioned in third or 4th-quarter of ’26, ’27. For marketing side, we have taken already steps to create seed marketing in the northern markets to abserve the additional volumes. And also we are expanding our retail footprint across various states. So there will not be any challenge in absorbing the additional volume. Our aim would be to do it in the first full-year of operation, the full expanded capacity.
As India being a net importer of fertilizer and we being a strong player in phosphate segments, we don’t feel any challenge in operating plan to the full capacity in the first full-year of operation.
Ankur Periwal
Great, sir. That’s helpful. And thank you for the detailed answers and congratulations, Mr Deepak for joining in and thanks, for your support over the years. Thank you.
Operator
Thank, thank you. The next question is from the line of Chaudhary from Aditya Birla. Please go-ahead.
Naushad Chaudhary
Hi, thanks for the opportunity and congrats on a good set of numbers. First one on the Nano DAP, sir. Just wanted to check how the traction there are we experiencing repeat buying here? And if things goes as we have expected from this product, can this travel to the world, can this product travel and if we succeed, how — what do you think how big can this product be for us in next three, four years?
Sankarasubramanian
No, thank you. Thank you for the good question. I’m pretty confident that this product definitely will scale-up in the coming years. We’ve been very, very systematic in our market approach and we are not pushing the product. We are generating a pull. We are working with the various ICI institutes across the country and going through the detailed evaluation on various crops and based on the response, we are very confident that partially this can replace DAP.
Every acre, as I mentioned earlier, instead of two bags, one bag can be cut out and nano DAP, one liter bottle can be used. And we find that the response to the crop has been pretty good in the crops with high foliage. And during this year, we sold 26 lakh bottles and we have seen 80% to 90% of liquidation, which is very creditable and we are very confident going into next year, we’ll be able to improve the volumes and thanks to our retail stores,
We are able to communicate with the farming community explaining the importance of providing these eco-friendly phosphate fertilizer has been going to be a game-changer for the industry as a whole. And if everything happens in a way we expect. We do expect replacement of 2 million tons of DAP in another two, three years’ time. This has been our initial estimate as well. And we also find that there is a positive response from various countries for this product and we have taken Government of India approval to export this as well.
So we have capability to increase the capacity in a modular way and we should be able to ramp-up the volume, the quick need. I’m personally confident that this can be one of the significant business unit for in the coming years.
Naushad Chaudhary
Interesting. Second, on the retail side of business, we have indicated we have added 100 more stores and indicated to almost I think double it in next two, three years. If you can help us understand in terms of overall economics , how much capex and working capital required per store, what is the current financial status of all 900 put together and how it should look like in next two, three years.
Sankarasubramanian
Retail has been a pretty good growth story for us. In fact, more than 19%, 95% of the retail stores, eight and 20 plus are in profit zone now. We have added another 130. Based on our learning curve, now we are able to get the breakeven point in a shorter timeframe of six months. As we understand the portfolio, we understand the customer preferences on the spaces, we could reach the breakeven point much faster. So — and also we understand how to reach the customers, how to introduce new products.
I think retail overall has become very profitable and it’s a multi-label store, it doesn’t depend on our own products. And here again, we educate the farmers on what is the right set of products to apply to increase their productivity. And also we provide services and we have seen that drone spraying has also been received very well for the farming community and wherever we do drone spring there is a spike in crop protection offtake. So we are pretty sure that retail is a way to go-forward.
In terms of investment, as of now, we are only on a rental basis. We don’t want the stores. And working capital also considering the — fully generates, I think we are able to leverage better on the sourcing part and currently we are running the business on a negative working capital. Yeah. And there may be initial challenge in absorbing the fixed costs as we ramp-up the stores, but I’m sure for the next two, three years, we are very confident that we should be able to increase the footprint to three times of the numbers what we have.
And this is a way to go-forward and we’ll put all our efforts and leverage on the digital analytics part to ensure we get this right on the day-one onwards.
Naushad Chaudhary
Thank you, sir. I’ll come back-in the queue and all the best. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Viraj from SIMPL. Please go-ahead.
Viraj
Hi,. Thanks for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions. First on the NACL part. Just wanted to get your thoughts on what attracted you towards the company other than the fact that it’s underutilized in terms of capacity utilization, but broadly in terms of the portfolio mix of the business per se, what is that attracted you the most? And just an extension of that is, if I were to look at our experience in terms of acquisition and my own journey in terms of crop protection over the last eight, 10 years, what are the similarities or differences into the business or acquisition you see between NACL and the other two.
Sankarasubramanian
See, NACL is again more or less similar to our business model, focuses mainly on genetic space, but the important aspect is they have been the supplier of choice for the major MNCs for many years. In fact, what we Call-IT is a modern time CDMO to most of those manufacturing capabilities were set-up by NACL much earlier. So to the extent their planned facilities and the process have been set-up in such a way to produce high-quality products.
That is something which is very critical and useful for the business like A, manufacturing. Besides that, they have a good set of enabled accredited R&D facility and they have been working on complementary set of chemistries to what we are working on, including the latest chlorination chemistry, which will be helpful as we go into future molecules which are based on chemistry. And also they have spar capacities and they have also built very strong brands in Indian market.
India is a large market for domestic formulation business and they have built brands of largest size and they operate in key markets, which are again complementary to our markets. So we see a lot of cross learning between both the entities, which will help to grow the business overall. Comparing this to Sabiro, Sabiro is more of an AI play in the export market, whereas has got all the three segments, domestic B2B, exports and sort of a CDMO type of operations.
So I think these two are completely different. Only challenge would be being in a genetic space, margin structure may not be as high as what we would tend to expect with the new chemistries. That is a change we can bring about. So I hope
Viraj
Yeah, that’s very helpful. Thank you. Just two questions. One is on the NACL. If you look at the 10-year history, the operating margins has been around 8% to 9% and this is despite a very sizable domestic B2C business. So if I look at other generic players with AI, even they are an upwards of, say, low-teen margins. So just trying to understand where-is the drag in terms of the margin profile in that business? And second question is for, say, Specialty Nutrients and the retail part is. You know you have been kind of leaders in specialty
Operator
Nutrients are sorry to interrupt. Could you move a bit away from your phone? You’re very static.
Viraj
Sure, is it better
Operator
A bit more, please?
Viraj
Yeah. Am I audible?
Sankarasubramanian
Yes, yes, you are.
Viraj
Second part of the question is more on the scalability and profitability, especially for the retail business and specialty nutrient, if you can just give some color and the part to the aspiration we would have in those two segments?
Sankarasubramanian
Yeah, I’ll take the second question first. Specialty is a highly profitable business, but involves a lot of concept selling. The volume scale-up will be steady and slow and we have been working on it over the period and various products in the product portfolio are developed in-house based on our R&D. So their EBITDA margin is also quite healthy between 18% to 20% and we have been growing consistently the top-line in the last few years at 15% to 20%.
And we are sure we’ll continue to grow that and that is also a focus area for us. So they are outside the subsidy gambit and it’s the way to go-forward in terms of improve introducing the more efficient products to the farming community. So S&D will be — we’ll be focusing on creating some backward integration on the key raw materials which are currently imported. We are looking to capture the value chain in SMD and sustain the volume growth.
Many of the key raw materials are currently being imported from China. So we’re looking to create capacities to ensure that we have a steady supply-chain as well as we can increase the margin for this business. On the retail, as I mentioned, we are doing well, we will continue to do well. And this has not been exploited fully according to us. We have created the funnel through which many products can come in.
As the base is be used like CPC and specialty nutrients and bio business start introducing new products, our aim would be to introduce those products through retail, which are high-margin, which will also help in retail to breakeven much faster. And it is profitable now and I’m sure with the increased centers increased revenue, profit margins should grow for retail as well. Coming to your first question in terms of the NACL margin, it operates in a generic space.
The way the AI prices have behaved in the last few years, there has been significant contraction in AI margins. So that is actually impacting the overall margin portfolio, even though the formulation bit commands higher-margin. So weighted-average pool margin is much lesser due to surplus AA prices. We do expect in the coming years, the active ingredient prices should improve, which in-turn can improve the margin structure for NACL.
NACL used to make margins in the range of 10% to 11% in the past, which came down to 4%, 5%. Our aim would be to first restore the margin back to 10% to 11%, get the capacities back on-track and try and see how do we build this margin by adding new products in the portfolio. That will be our of course.
Viraj
Sure, I’ll come back-in queue. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Naushit Chaudhary from Adity Cap Adity Birla. Please go-ahead.
Naushad Chaudhary
Hi, thanks for the opportunity again. Two clarifications, sir. First on the jump-in the sulfuric acid prices. Do you think the real impact has not yet come because recently also it has jumped substantially. The subsequent quarter should see a major benefit of that or what your sense on this thing, sir?
Sankarasubramanian
See prices have really short up that has played out in the Q4. In fact, you can see some slight compression in the margin and — but you also realize that phosphoric acid price also has gone up to that extent. So the value addition on phosphoric acid remains the same. To the extent of sulfur prices, the fossil fil price has gone up. Now the end-product prices on NPK fruit Will get corrected as we move forward besides DAP to abserve this price increase. But having said that, there are also other soft spots like ammonia where the prices which you are prevailing $400 have come down to $330, these plus and minuses do happen. And overall, I think with announced subsidiar rates, the business is reasonably confident of achieving the margins what it set-out every year.
Naushad Chaudhary
Okay. And on the manufactured volume growth, this year, I think we have optimally — if the capacity which we have for next year, do we think we will have a capacity constraint on the manufacturing side of volume growth for FY ’26 though ’27 we are coming up with Kakinala. But ’26, do you think the trading portion would be higher because of the capacity constraint.
Sankarasubramanian
So the two things we need to note, one is we are debottlenecking our brand and that benefit has to flow-in for the full-year next year. And we also keep tweaking the product mix to increase the throughput. The throughputs depending on the NPKs what we produce. So that can also aid us in increasing the volume. And granulation facility is still not back on-track and we are working with various regulators to see how best we can come back on-track on the innur granulation facility.
So the of is coming back on-track and the product mix and the imported NP, NPKs to do the seed marketing and not — should provide required impetus on the volumes so that when the new capacity comes in, we are able to sell the volume in the first year.
Naushad Chaudhary
All right, sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vignesh Iyer from Sequent Investments. Please go-ahead.
Vignesh Iyer
Hello. Sir, yeah, there are a few. As you know, unit prices, I wanted to know for the quarter-four. Firstly, on the phos acid prices, if you could share
Operator
If you could be a bit clear.
Vignesh Iyer
Hello. Am I audible now? Hello.
Operator
Could you move-out a bit far from your phone? You’re very loud.
Vignesh Iyer
Now hello.
Operator
Could you speak out a few sentences like if hello, yeah.
Vignesh Iyer
So what I was asking is, basically, I wanted to know prices of puke chemicals. That is what is the price that was there for phosphoric acid in-quarter four, firstly. Secondly, wanted to know-how has the price for sulfur panned out from quarter three to quarter-four versus sulfuric acid from quarter three to quarter-four? If you could give us the data per ton this.
Sankarasubramanian
PE price, as I mentioned earlier, it has moved up from $1,055 to $1,53, $98. Sulfur moved up by almost $120, what it used to be $180 moved up to $300 plus. On sulfuric acid, which used to be $70, $80 moved up to $100 and $105. So these are the spike which has happened from Q3 to Q4.
Vignesh Iyer
Okay. So I mean would — how do we see it — I mean our internal estimate on would — is there a lag between that sulfur and sulfuric acid price and we might see some more increase that is possible on sulfuric acid side of it? I mean going ahead with the season having more requirement towards fertilizers, etc., that. So sulfur, I think has reached the peak, our view would be sulfur should moderate from here based on some sporting demand from Indonesia for a different industry sector, not for fertilizers and also China import.
So I think sulfur as a global commodity is a surplus and need to come down. So we do expect sulfur should soften in the coming months. South Africa is again a function of demand-supply and I do expect to remain static here and soften from here. Globally, commodity prices are not going up, whether it is carn soya and which can dampen the global fertilizer input prices as well as affordability index is going up, so coming down for the farmers.
So I do expect the commodity prices to soften in the coming quarters
Sankarasubramanian
Next — thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumaya V from Avendus Spark Institutional Equities Private Limited. Please go-ahead.
Somaiah V
Sir, the first question is on a fertilizer margin in Q4. You did mention there is a slight compression there. Is it entirely attributed to sulfur or is there anything that changed on a quarter-on-quarter basis? For instance, was there any inventory impact that had a bit of an impact on margins.
Sankarasubramanian
So of course, sulfur played a role, but other than that, there is no inventory impact rather we have improved on the channel inventory with improved liquidation. The 4th-quarter is always a soft quarter with annual turnaround happening and many of the intermediate plans will — we take annual shutdown. So to that extent the value addition will be relatively less. So it is in-line with the past trend and nothing special happened in the 4th-quarter.
Somaiah V
Got it, sir, also earlier we used to give you our manufactured EBITDA per ton guidance, we used to have this INR5,000 per tonne. So does that still hold good in current context where we are in terms of subsidy allocation for and where raw-material prices are.
Sankarasubramanian
Yes, we should be able to sustain that margin.
Somaiah V
Sure. Got it, sir. Sir, also on crop protection, quite a strong growth this time. So we used to be roughly around 50% in terms of exports and domestic. Is the mix currently similar or has it changed? That’s one. And second, if you could just help us in terms of — I think earlier you did mention in terms of what are the factors that drove as a sub-segment within crop production, if you can just give some more color on it.
Sankarasubramanian
Nagul, do you want to take that?
Raghuram Devarakonda
Am I audible?
Sankarasubramanian
Yes, yes, sir.
Raghuram Devarakonda
Okay, great. Yes. As Shankar mentioned, part of the growth has come because of the introduction of new products in the B2C segment. And there is a an uptick in-demand in LatAm. So primarily these two have contributed to the growth between exports and domestic B2C.
Somaiah V
Sir, exports, what would have been the growth and domestic B2C, what would have been the growth? And, are we seeing any price realization improvements?
Raghuram Devarakonda
Yeah, we have seen a marginal improvement in — because see the other fungicides are not picking-up in terms of their costs or prices, you see. So cannot indefinitely increase in price because then there will be a shift between the molecules. So while we have seen an uptick, it’s not like something extraordinary. The volume growth has been pretty good year-on-year as far as-is concerned in the exports market. So specific statistics, I think somebody had already asked about volume growth, maybe I’ll address your question and the other question together.
So the volume growth for exports has been close to 9% and in terms of B2C, it’s in excess of 24%. So volume growth. So that’s — I hope it answers your question.
Somaiah V
Sure, sir, it does. And also what would be the value growth in exports and B2C.
Raghuram Devarakonda
Anuj, would you have that number ready, handy? As I said, the prices have also moved out somewhere — somewhat. So in exports, you’ll see a pretty decent growth. But as far as domestic market prices are concerned, it’s been either flat or it has gone down in some cases. So maybe give me some time, I’ll try to dig it out. I don’t have it in front of me.
Sankarasubramanian
I have this data in terms of terms of the formulation business, they are looking for 16% growth on rupees crore basis, the value increase. And for the quarter has been a good jump, 31%. In fact, if you see the share of CPC revenue has increased in this quarter, mainly driven by domestic formulation business, thanks to the new molecules we had, 31% growth has happened in Q4 and for the full-year, there is a 16% growth which has happened.
Raghuram Devarakonda
So as you can tell, while there is a volume growth, there’s a bit of price erosion resulting in overall value growth of 16% when the volume growth has been 24 plus in the domestic market.
Sankarasubramanian
Yes.
Somaiah V
Sure, sir. Thank you. That’s helpful.
Operator
Thank you thank you. The next question is from the line of Himanshu Binani from Anand Rathi. Please go-ahead.
Himanshu Binani
Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, I just missed the last participant’s question in terms of the EBITDA per ton guidance. So we are sticking to that INR4,500 to INR5,000 sort of number for FY ’26, right?
Sankarasubramanian
Yes.
Himanshu Binani
Got it. And sir, secondly, if you can like help me with this unique rate share to the overall manufactured volumes for Q4 as well as for FY ’25.
Sankarasubramanian
It’s 25%. 35%, 35%.
Himanshu Binani
Sorry, 25%.
Sankarasubramanian
35%,
Himanshu Binani
55% for Q4.
Sankarasubramanian
So 35% for the full-year basis. Hello.
Himanshu Binani
Sorry, sir, I didn’t get 55% for full-year FY ’25 given you sir.
Sankarasubramanian
Correct, correct.
Himanshu Binani
So that seems to be like too high basically. So what I understand is that FY ’24 we will like somewhere around a 36% 38% sort of like number and this has increased to 55% you mean to say.
Sankarasubramanian
No, I said 3.5%.
Himanshu Binani
3.5 years. Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. And sir, one last question basically on the retail side of the business. So can you help us understand the metrics in terms of the revenue cost for like setting per store and the absolute breakeven number at what revenues we breakeven or anything, any color on that would be really helpful.
Sankarasubramanian
I would prefer to take it offline to put it at this point of time. And but what I can say is we do breakeven if we can sell 2,000 tons of fertilizers and accrual of non-fertilizer, we should be able to cover the expenses and start making profits. And that’s — that’s happening within six months. So that’s what we said. Initially, it used to take two years, then we reduced it in a year. Now we are able to do it in six months, basically because we are able to identify the right location for the store for this and the can we go-ahead?
Himanshu Binani
Sure, sir.
Sankarasubramanian
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ranjit from IIFL Capital Services. Please go-ahead.
Ranjit Cirumalla
Yes, sir. Thanks for this opportunity. Couple of questions from my side. Firstly, if you can elaborate on the new hirings that we have done, the seems to be a new role altogether, Vice-President, Nanofertilizers and Vice-President, Strategic Initiatives. What would be the for these two appointees?
Sankarasubramanian
And is not able to hear you clearly. Can you please repeat
Operator
Mr request you to move a bit away from your phone so that we can hear you
Ranjit Cirumalla
Hope this should be good.
Operator
Yeah, you can.
Ranjit Cirumalla
So thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted a bit more insights on the two new hirings that we have made. One is the VP and the VP Strategic Initiatives. What would be the KRAs for these two new hirings?
Sankarasubramanian
See, in the case of VP Nano, as the name suggests, he will be a business head for the Nano fertilizers both in domestic and export markets besides focusing on exports for specialty. Has a rich experience in crop protection space and having worked in Latin-American market, we have had impact in for driving the nano business initiative in. As part of VP’s strategy Finance, as a company, we are looking for opportunities.
We have created a M&A sale and basically to provide financial insights of the business evaluation of the new targets what we are exploring, we have taken this person on-board. So his experience in our business valuations and financial metrics to evaluate the targets will come handy for us to look at new inorganic opportunities for growth..
Ranjit Cirumalla
Sure. Thank you. That’s helpful. Second question, coming back to the fertilizer guidance, back-in December 2024, we had guided for a 40% jump-in EBITDA per metric ton for our fertilizer business in two to three years time-frame. That still stays intact, right?
Sankarasubramanian
Yes, when the plan gets commissioned, the value addition of the plant flows in should see that sort of an improvement. That is likely to happen in the 4th-quarter when PAC plant gets commissioned. Portion of the increase will play-out from there on. Then after that the improvement will happen once we get the new Grand Lation planting.
Ranjit Cirumalla
Sure, sir. Thank you. That’s all from my side.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investment. Please go-ahead.
Vipulkumar Shah
Hi. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So my question relates to subsidy and non-subsidy profit. So where do you see non-subsidy profit reaching percentage-wise three years down the line, sir. See, currently, I think it’s around 70-30 right on the three non-subsidy share and the profitability.
Sankarasubramanian
And see fertilizer also is likely to grow with the expanded capacities, increase in intermediate capacities. And we are focusing on CPC growth opportunities now. Ideally, we want to put the number 50-50, but not at the cost of slowing down on fertilizers. So while we aim for that number, but fertilizer is also growing good and we are diversifying the portfolio. And our aim would be to write a strike balance — strike a right balance between the fertilizer and non-fertilizer business, very difficult for us to put the number at this point of time with the way the Newton business is shaping up.
So we will invest and we will focus on non-fertilizers, especially CPC in the coming years,
Vipulkumar Shah
Sir. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohit Nagraj from B&K Securities. Please go-ahead.
Rohit Nagraj
Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on a good set of numbers. Sir, first question in terms of the R&D capabilities for both and NHPL. So how these are — whether there is any complementary threat on this? And in terms of incremental product development or funnel, are we going to optimize the efforts given that now we are a company and there could be some overlaps which might be there. So just brief about that would be helpful. Thank you.
Sankarasubramanian
No, absolutely. We will leverage the synergy benefits between both entities. I leverage on their expertise and many communistries they are good at, as I mentioned in my earlier opening remarks, they are good community. They have got certain capabilities. And. And has developed certain chemistries over a period of time. We’ll try to optimize between both the companies and try to see how do we consolidate and get a synergistic value out-of-the development efforts.
It may even include getting some infrastructure synergies as well. So we may consolidate the R&D facilities in a single-location to leverage the size and scale and attract talents and pull-up together in introducing the new products. Definitely this will be leverage.
Rohit Nagraj
And in terms of number of personal on in both the company, how are they in terms of TSB etc? Any color on that
Sankarasubramanian
You’re talking about R&D personnel?
Rohit Nagraj
Yes, yes, that’s right.
Sankarasubramanian
I think we have close to 100 and they have close to 50-55 and roughly 160 170 numbers is what we are talking about on a combined basis, only for CPC, but has got some new as well.
Rohit Nagraj
Sir, second question is, I missed the earlier — I mean, the initial remarks. So are there any targets in terms of synergy benefits that we have given out for the next, say, two, three years. So that’s the way you explained from R&D perspective, we will be getting certain synergies. I think financial targets that we are looking at?
Sankarasubramanian
Yeah, very early days. We have to wait for the regulatory approvals and get that production and sales on-track first. We need to put our heads together and then put these numbers against each of these, whether it’s a procurement efficiency or new product introduction or the market synergies or the R&D development. Probably six months down the line, we should be able to answer it more appropriately.
Rohit Nagraj
Thanks for answering all the questions. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. You. The next question is from the line of Sheil Kumar Shah from Sameksha Capital. Please go-ahead.
Sheel Shah
Yeah, hello. Am I audible?
Sankarasubramanian
Yes.
Rohit Nagraj
Yeah. So if you can share manufacturing EBITDA per ton for FY ’24 and FY ’25? That’s the first. Second, EBITDA per ton for FY ’24 and FY ’25 and our trading margins EBITDA.
Sankarasubramanian
I will get back to you on this, the segment-wise EBITDA margins. I’ll ask Anuj, Investor Relations to communicate with you on this. Thank you.
Operator
Mr Sheil Kumar. Hello.
Sheel Shah
Yes.
Operator
Would you like to Go-ahead?
Sheel Shah
No, no, thanks.
Operator
Okay. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Mr S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities Private Limited. Please go-ahead, sir. Go-ahead?
Ramesh
Thank you. So before we close the call, just I would like to have your thoughts on the very-high debt in NACL and the high-interest cost. So what is the timeline you expect to reduce the debt burden and interest cost in NHCL? And if you look at the overall CPC business, you said there is some pricing pressure in the domestic markets. So assuming that the inventory-related pressure in the domestic markets out-of-the way, when do you see the pricing power coming back-in domestic formulations?
Sankarasubramanian
Yeah, definitely. Formulation for — overall approach to the formulation business will be synergized with the way of doing business and that should bring in a discipline in the marketplacement and the working capital needs and that should improve the profit margins and formulation. And we do expect a disciplined approach to grow the formulation business. So I think over a period of time, with the plants operating at full capacity, including the new Dahej plant, we should see some improved cash flows and liquidity coming into the system and we should bring down the debt.
But these — the debts have been secured for the capex investments and it may take a while to pay them back. So at this point in time a standalone basis, difficult to put the timelines, but our effort would be to see they have a good control over the working capital, release the cash to pay-off the debt and bring down the interest burd.
Ramesh
Okay. With that, let me thank all the investors and analysts for joining the call and my sincere thanks and gratitude for the management for giving a good insight on the business and answering all the questions. Let me hand over the call-back to Shankar for his closing remarks. Thank you very much, sir.
Sankarasubramanian
Thank you. No, thank you, Ramesh. Thank you everyone for your insightful questions. And definitely will be more responsible in ensuring that we deliver on whatever we commit and looking-forward to future interaction. Thank you very much.
Operator
Thank you thank you. On behalf of Nirmal Bank, on behalf of Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.
Sankarasubramanian
Thank you.
Ramesh
Thank you