Container Corporation of India Limited (NSE: CONCOR) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 23, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Sanjay Swarup — Chairman and Managing Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Bhoomika Nair — Analyst
Achal Lohade — Analyst
Disha Giria — Analyst
Krishnendu Saha — Analyst
Anupam Goswami — Analyst
Vikram Suryavanshi — Analyst
Mukesh Saraf — Analyst
Priyankar Biswas — Analyst
Shrinidhi Karlekar — Analyst
Sumit Kishore — Analyst
Danish Kahn — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
SA it. Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Container Corporation of India Limited earnings call Q4FY25 hosted by DAM Capital Advisors Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhumika Nair from Dam Capital Advisors Ltd. Thank you. And over to you, ma’ am.
Bhoomika Nair — Analyst
Thanks. Good morning everyone and a warm welcome to the Q4FY25 earnings call of Container Corporation of India. We have the management today being represented by Mr. Sanjay Swaroop, Chairman and Managing Director. At this point I’ll hand over the floor to Mr. Swaroop for his initial remarks post which we’ll open up the floor for Q and A. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Sanjay Swarup — Chairman and Managing Director
Yeah. Good morning everybody. I am represented. I am having with me Mr. Ajit Kumar Panda, Director Projects and Services. Mr. Mohammed Azhar Shams, Director, Domestic Division. Mr. Vijay Kumar Singh, Director, International Marketing and Operations. Mr. Anuradh Kapil, Director Finance. And Mr. Harish Chandra ED, Finance Company Secretary and CFO of the company. I would like to give some opening remarks and then we can proceed with questions at the outset. I am glad to announce that board of directors has Approved the bonus share. 1 4. One share for every four shares in the meeting concluded yesterday and we have announced a dividend of rupees two on a par share that is 40% dividend for this quarter.
And it takes the total dividend to rupees 11.50 at a share value of rupees 5. That is 230% bonus share are subject to requisite approvals which will be coming in due course. Then as far as the performance of the company is concerned. Concord achieved ever Highest throughput of 5.09 million to use. Crossing the 5 million to use mark for the first time in its history. Throughput growth has been around 8% in the financial year. It includes EXIM growth of 7% and domestic growth of 12%. It’s in line with the India international trade. Export has grown by 0.08% to US$437.42 billion.
And import of India grew by 6.2% to US$720.24 billion. In Q4 we had a growth of 8.25% as compared to the corresponding period of last financial Year it includes exim growth of 12% and which we are able to sustain in the present quarter also. And domestic we had a negative growth of 2.6% primarily because of three reasons. First is we deliberately did not pick up the low margin traffic that was available. And second reason was the impact of congestion in railway network in Eastern India which impacted our business in domestic. And third reason is the delay in supply of tank containers by NASA’s Great Fit, our sister PSU due to the various speeding technical problems that they were having.
Because of these three primary reasons, domestic throughput in fact declined as compared to the corresponding period of last financial year. But now I will tell you subsequently we have taken corrective steps and in the current financial year we see a very robust growth in domestic. I also want to highlight that in EXIM we have increased the market share on Pan India basis by 40 basis points. JNPT only 9 basis points. Mundra Port 127 basis points. Depava Port 232 basis points. And one important thing is we have gained market share and despite not sacrificing our margins, in fact our rail freight margin has increased by 55 basis points.
So market share has also increased and rail freight margin has also increased from 25.10% to 25.65%. Operating margin has remained same year on year last year it was 30.7% and this year it was 30%. Same EBITDA margin also same year on year 25.5% to 25%. So all these performances we were able to achieve because of our strong focus on customer centricity. Customers have reposed fair in our services and operational excellence of Team Concord. Despite geopolitical challenges that we were facing. The we could achieve operating income growth of 2.7% and PAT growth of 3.35%. And PAT is ever highest in company’s history and turnover in this financial year is also ever highest in the company’s history.
And as far as operations front is concerned, we have seen a 16% growth in double stack handling of rapes. This year we crossed 6,000 rakes. We achieved 6,302 double stack rake this year. Last year it was 5,440. So there was a growth of 16%. We also added infrastructure to meet this demand. We commissioned 11 rakes in this financial year taking our total rake count to 388. We procured around 9,000 containers taking our container fleet to more than 53,000 containers. And all this was possible and we achieved capex of rupees 810 crore in FY25 for FY26 board of directors have approved capex budget of rupees 860 crore which will be primarily used for procuring containers, procuring wagons, development of terminals and for management of management information system that is IT equipment Company has embarked on massive infrastructure creation.
After seeing the robust demand by 2028 we have set a target of 100 terminals, 500 plus rakes and 70,000 containers of our own. For ESG we have established Concord Terry center of Excellence for Green and Sustainable Logistics for giving us various consultancy and guiding us how to go for green and sustainable logistics. As far as Outlook for FY26 is concerned, we see stability in EXIM business and with commissioning of WDSP up to JNPT by December 2025 we see a spurt in volumes in Q4 of this financial year. On domestic front there is a robust demand.
We expect good volumes of bulk cement in tank containers, ceramic tiles, food grains, etc. In the last financial year exports basically increased. Readymade garments saw 84% growth, auto parts saw 22% growth and plastic goods saw 82% growth. Similarly imports also increased. Raw cotton increased by 122% and glass by 57%. We have resumed rail services for third country import from Haldia port to Birganj. We loaded more than 1000 TUs in the last financial year and for DPD also we increased by 31% in last financial year. We have loaded 3847 TUs in last financial year which was a growth of 31% over corresponding period of previous financial year.
So at this moment I would like to give guidance for FY26 in Exim. I am giving guidance of 10% growth in domestic, 20% growth. So overall there will be 13% growth in this financial year in overall business combined Exim and domestic. How we will achieve this? There are various factors that we will be working on. First is customer centricity which remains the focus area of management. Then second is total logistics solution to customers. We have set upon a target of 100% first mile, last mile that we will be doing in this financial year. Then we will be working on green and sustainable logistics and bulk cement in tank containers will be a very big driver of growth and long term agreements we are going to have with corporate customers and shipping lines which will help us to give more volumes into our fold.
And last but not the least we will have business at our new terminals also that we are going to commission in this Financial year we have set up a target of commissioning four new terminals and we are actively working with railways and DFC for getting land for setting up more terminals so that we are able to achieve the target of 100 terminals by 2028. So these are my opening remarks. Now you can start the questions please.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Achal Goharde from Novama. Please go ahead.
Achal Lohade
Good morning sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you help us with the originating volume for the quarter?
Sanjay Swarup
Yes, originating volume for Q4, for EXIM it is 557670 TUS and for domestic 121789 TUS total is 679459 to use.
Achal Lohade
Understood? Sir, if you could help us understand. You know with respect to the market share. You did mention about the market share but if you could give the number specifically what is the market share? JNPT, Mundra Pipa and aggregate India level for example.
Sanjay Swarup
JNPT we have a market share of 58.44%. Port it is 37.7%, Itawa port it is 48.4%. And on Pan India FPC we achieved the market share of 55.2% in EXIM and 57.6% is domestic total is 56%.
Achal Lohade
And if you could help us with FY24 number as well sir, in the.
Sanjay Swarup
Concession fee FY24 GNPT was 58.3%, Mundra port was 36.4%, the power port was 46%. Pan India EXIM 54.8%, domestic 66.8% and total is 57.7%.
Achal Lohade
Understood. Sir, if you could help us explain the drop in terms of the domestic business specifically for the quarter like it is appearing to be fairly large somewhere around 15% yoy in terms of originating volume. You know what has driven this particular drop? Any particular geography or it’s just a cement bulk cement container. Basically what you are saying.
Sanjay Swarup
I already mentioned in my opening remarks there are basically three reasons. First is there is lot of traffic available which is working on very low margin. So purposely that is a deliberate decision of the management not to pick up that traffic. We have decided not to go for 0% margin or 1 to 2% margin. So that was a decision of the management for not picking up that traffic. And second reason, as I told you, there was a congestion in railway network in eastern India. And due to various factors and that has impacted our volume in a big way in domestic.
Because domestic if you analyze it deeply a lot of traffic is moving from western India to eastern India. So if there is a congestion then drakes don’t get unloaded, then they don’t get loaded. So because of that the domestic business was severely impacted. Third was the tank container that we were banking that it will start in Q4. But somehow because it is a new product, first time it was being developed in our country. So there was a lot of teething problems and they could not be delivered and we could not get any loading of bulk cement in tank containers.
So these were the basic three big problems that impacted our drop in domestic.
Achal Lohade
Understood. And just one more question. In terms of the LLF you’ve mentioned in the notes it’s 370 crores net of 65 crores impact. So you know I’m just curious what is the number for fourth quarter? Is it 110 crores or is it 175 crores? How do we look at it?
Sanjay Swarup
My ED finance can answer this question. It is 108 for working fourth quarter I think.
Achal Lohade
Okay. 370 crores is the net number.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah.
Achal Lohade
370 crore for the full year. And how do you see it for FY26? That’s my last question sir.
Sanjay Swarup
See as I mentioned earlier in my one of the interviews today morning FY26 also it will be in the same range even though it will increase the 7%. But we are constantly working on surrendering the terminals that we don’t need or the land within terminal that we don’t need. So net impact will be around this number only.
Achal Lohade
Understood? Thank you sir. I will fall back in the queue for follow ups. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Disha from Ashika Institutional. Please go ahead.
Disha Giria
Good morning sir. So my first question is if you would have any idea by when you would receive the specialized containers from datewith because it has almost delayed for one project. You have any idea on it?
Sanjay Swarup
Actually we have already received 90 containers from bitwidth that are sufficient to form a rake. Now these containers are under trial loading at one of these cement plants. So we are quite hopeful of a breakthrough. So because for the first time they are being loaded. So you will appreciate that there is a teething issue. So people are working on it. Our officers are also working and I am expecting that by first week of June it should streamline and stabilize. And apart from that, we have published a tender for 500 more containers. For open tender we have published.
So that is a parallel exercise we are doing. And one more thing on bulk cement front, we have signed agreement with two leading cement manufacturers, Ultratech Cement and my home Cement where we have given two acre land each to them in our terminal at Dornagiri and Mumbai. And they will be setting up silos and they are procuring bulk tank containers on their own. Even my home cement have procured 200 containers already. So they are constructing a silo and then that loading will be parallel. They will be doing.
Disha Giria
All right. So my second question is in terms of if you would have an idea on what is the total containers handled at All India ports and what is Concord share in it?
Sanjay Swarup
The All India ports, of course we keep a data but that may not be very authentic. I will just give you an idea of that. One minute. All India ports, the total handling was around 23 million tu. Okay, 23 million tus.
Disha Giria
All right. If I may ask one last question. We did see a drop in realization in terms of domestic and EXIM business both. So going forward do you expect realization increasing in both these segments? I do understand why Domestic we are not specifically going into low margin business that would slightly impact our volumes. But in the Exim business.
Sanjay Swarup
As I told you, we are able to maintain EBITDA level of 24 to 25% every year. And despite growing also and which is quite good in logistics business. Normally it is in single digit. So we will be able to maintain this business going forward. The things that will help us will be the commissioning of DFC which will increase the double stacking. It will bring down the empty running. Similarly domestic also we will be able to move both way loaded traffic and a lot of circuits. We are working on it. So I think we will be able to improve our EBITDA and maintain that 24, 25% level.
Disha Giria
All right, thank you. I’ll fall back into the view.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Bhumika Nair from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Bhoomika Nair
Yes, sir. So just wanted to understand the EXIM segment a little better. You know, this year has been fairly muted in terms of growth and we’re talking about a 10% growth next year. You know, how is the volumes really shaping up in, you know, in the last two months has there been A pickup. And what is the outlook that you’re seeing in terms of shipping lines? Is there a balance of trade between export and import? If you can just talk a little bit about qualitatively in terms of the volume trajectory that we are seeing because after there was a lot of shipping disruption which had impacted our volumes.
Sanjay Swarup
See in this current financial year we are able to see a stable volume in exit as I informed earlier. And there is a good business we are getting. And I have had talks with various shipping lines and they have informed that this year is going to be good because whatever uncertainties remain but they have sort of overcome that and it has become stabilized. So export import is never balanced in our country. So some places there is more imports, some places there is more export. So at present exports are very good as compared to imports. It keeps on happening.
But that is not an issue. We are able to overcome that challenge by increasing our double stepping. So exim guidance of 10%. I find it quite achievable.
Bhoomika Nair
Sure sir. The other question was on margins. If we look at EXIM margins for the current quarter 4Q while obviously for the last two quarters it has been quite healthy. But this particular quarter saw a drop to about 20% versus what we’ve been doing, about 25%. So any particular reason why in this quarter there was a drop in the EXIM EBIT margins?
Sanjay Swarup
See this was the final quarter. So there are a lot of adjustments also which we carry forward and whatever expenses are there. So all these factors are there. Otherwise there is no particular reason. As far as operationally we have been able to reduce the empty running. This number I don’t have with me right at the moment but it was quite good. Double stacking was quite good. So this is likely to continue in this financial year also. So margins front I don’t think we have to worry.
Bhoomika Nair
Okay sir. So can I just get the empty running and the businesses please?
Sanjay Swarup
Yes. Empty running in this financial year was Exim, it is 121.3 crore rupees. Domestic it is 286.7 crore rupees. And total was 408 crore rupees. And in both EXIM and domestic it is less than last financial year. EXIM it is reduced by 6.4%. Domestic it is reduced by 5%. And there is a total reduction of 5.3% in empty running.
Bhoomika Nair
Sure sir. And the lead distances?
Sanjay Swarup
Sir, lead distances for Exim it was 701 km. Domestic it is 1321 kilometers. Total is 801 kilometers.
Bhoomika Nair
Okay. Okay, great. I’ll come back in the question queue. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Krishna Saha from Quantum Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Krishnendu Saha
Hi, Couple of things on domestic front you spoke about. The eastern India volume has impacted the domestic volume. Could you qualify as to what percentage? Like is it a large volume or is it like low or low single digit volume? For us.
Sanjay Swarup
In the last quarter Q4 there was a drop of 2.6% in domestic volume as compared to the same corresponding period of previous financial year.
Krishnendu Saha
2.6%?
Sanjay Swarup
Yes.
Sanjay Swarup
Just on the realization part. Overall for the financial year there was a growth of 12% in domestic volume.
Krishnendu Saha
Yes. Three reasons why this happened. So I’m just asking, just get a number two on the realization part. On the domestic for the last from 24 to 25 there’s a degrowth of the realization. Do you see any pickup in realization but CE on the domestic front in effect 26 or 27 because 24 has a default of 5.2%, 25 level of 9.2% with new business coming in tankers for female and others and and time do we see the red shading slack or do you think that the realization will have for the.
Sanjay Swarup
Realization will be good? As I told you, we are working on various circuits. Like suppose my container is coming empty from point A to point B. I give very good rates, maybe on very less margin so that at least I get some money instead of getting negative returns, I get some returns. So all these strategies, they are working. So it’s a detailed, you know, subject. It will not be possible to tell in detail at this moment. So we are constantly confident, we are very sure that we will be able to improve domestic margins in this current financial year.
Krishnendu Saha
So that will be largely also being flattish as compared to 25%. If that can be taken into consideration.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah, you can say it will be slightly more than F by 25 and overall EBITDA will be 24, 25% or even more than that. Sure.
Krishnendu Saha
And just for my understanding, on the exim front, this is a hypothetical example where the shipping liners rate per tube goes down from suppose $4,000 to $3,000. Do you face a pressure on realization front on the exit side also? Likewise, what is the quantity and or how fast?
Sanjay Swarup
We don’t feel such pressure because we maintain excellent relations with our customers. So whenever we go for any rate increase, first thing is we give them sufficient time. Second thing is we inform them that we are going to do that and they have these reasons. ABC so we have excellent communication with them. So we don’t face any such pressure. That is shipping lines are reducing ocean freight correspondingly. We will also increase or decrease our inland charges.
Krishnendu Saha
These pressures we don’t face because large of number of contracts will be on long term with them. That is the understanding.
Sanjay Swarup
We are a public sector undertaking. So we are not a private company. So we cannot change our rate on a daily basis and we cannot be selective that we will charge this thing from percent A and another rate from percent B. We can’t do that. Whatever rates we are notifying is a public rate. It’s a public domain available on our website. But only thing what we can do is can give volume based incentives. So if somebody gives me more volume, you will get more incentive. If some person gives me less volume, you will get less incentive.
That and that is also very transparent.
Krishnendu Saha
In Q4, I suppose. Sorry, that adjustment happens in Q4. That’s where the margins take a dip in Q4. On the exam side.
Sanjay Swarup
Exactly. You are. Yes, yes. You have read the point that ultimately in Q4 every all these things are we close our accounts for the year. So all these issues are reflected in Q4.
Krishnendu Saha
And just one small question for this Cement tankers and tiles. Will they fetch a larger. Will they fetch a better margin than the current domestic profile or margin sales? Could you just throw some light on that? Thanks.
Sanjay Swarup
That’s the last question actually per se, you cannot say that only one side loaded will fetch good margins margin. We should see in overall perspective because in domestic, even for empty container movement, you know we have to pay to. But we don’t get anything. While in EXIM if we move empty containers, shipping lines pay us. So that’s the difference between basic difference between EXIM and domestic. So domestic becomes very challenging because suppose I move tiles from point A to point B. Then in return direction suppose I bring the empty container. I don’t get anything but I have to pay to railways.
So my endeavor is that return direction I should fill some cargo in that. So basically I. You cannot say that for tiles you will get more returns. The key question should be how much empty running you will reduce.
Krishnendu Saha
Yes. I will also ask you the bankers, the female tankers which you use, will they have what they’re getting and what do you call it? Any return cargo would be a little bit difficult. So would they have a pain margin profile?
Sanjay Swarup
That’s a good question. In empty. In empty tankers we will be bringing their name empty state only. But for that railway has given my incentive schemes when it Was first five years of the tender. I see that first five years. We will avail of that incentive schemes in which for empty movement they give some incentives. But we have our notified our rates in such a manner that we take that cost into consideration. That empty cost also. And parties have agreed for that.
Krishnendu Saha
I see. I. Splendid. Thank you very much. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anupam Goswami from SUD Life. Please go ahead.
Anupam Goswami
Hi sir. Hello sir. So my first question on the what’s your target on the double stack portion and on the DFC on the eastern front also. Are we looking any double stack introduction over there? And also also on the exit margin. I missed on that front. How do we see the exit margin from here onwards?
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah, see first question. There is no target on double step. We want to increase it as much as possible. But every year we are getting a good growth. This year we got a growth of 16%. Before that also we got double digit growth. So as such there is no target that we have fixed for double stack. But we want to maximize it. But there is lot of improvements going on in wagon technology also. Wagons are now coming which can carry more payload. Now previously there were wagons which could carry 68 to 70 tons per airload.
Now we have wagons available which can carry 80 tons of payload. So obviously these things will increase the double stacking. So this is helping us a lot. Second question is Eastern. Eastern DSP is not fit for double stack. And it is only catering to bulk and brake bulk cargo. Mostly containers are not running. And because overhead equipment height is not that much that it can double stack trains and run on eastern dfc. So it is not possible to run double stack. Third question is about exim margin. Yes, exim margin. You will see a lot of improvement in the coming weeks.
And we will be able to maintain EBITDA of 24 to 25%.
Anupam Goswami
Okay sir, I’ll turn back in with you.
Sanjay Swarup
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vikram Suryavanshi from Philip Capital. Please go ahead.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Yeah, good afternoon sir. Just wanted a clarity on depreciation. So last quarter we have increased the life for assets. And there was a reduction in our depreciation for last quarter. But again if you look at this quarter has gone up. So can you clarify for that?
Sanjay Swarup
My ED Finance will answer this question. Yeah, depreciation like in the last quarter, as you know we have increased the life of our wagons from 15 years to 30 years. So that had an impact of 79 crores in the December period. And if you see in the. In the March period the total impact is 92 crores. So the impact in the March quarter is around 13 crores because of that. So that’s. That’s the main reason. And that has also been. You know you can neglected or has also impacted our tax provision. If you see there is a deferred tax provision which has increased and there is a.
There is a decline in the current tax provision because we have brought up a text benefit for the capex what we have done during the year. So current tax liability has come down.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Okay, so quarter on quarter increases mainly because of the asset addition what we have done.
Sanjay Swarup
Yes. Yes.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Okay understood. And in terms of container plate we also used to take a plate on lead. So what you are mentioning around like 53000 container. Does it include only our own container or we have lease fleet also?
Sanjay Swarup
I think it is all own container. Now there is no lease container.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Okay, understood. And last question is that our revenue share which you given every quarter. How much is our revenue share from jnpt? If you can share that number for. Yes.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah I will give you JNPT. Our volume share is 33.4% for I am giving for the full year. Mundra port is a 37.3% Ipava 9.5% Vizag 5.5% Chennai 4% Valarpadam 4.7% Tuti Korean 1.3% and Noor 1.75% Katupalli 1.72% Total is 99.41%.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Okay, just to add one. Since you are talking about end to end logistic are we also looking to come back for post any possibility or will be more like a surface road to road?
Sanjay Swarup
No, we are open for coastal also. We have signed an MOU with Shipping Corporation of India for coastal movement also. But till now we are not able to achieve any breakthrough because of the various rates that we worked out and we shared with the trade it was not favorable to them but we are constantly on the job. As soon as we get we will inform you.
Vikram Suryavanshi
Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Avendis Park. Please go ahead.
Mukesh Saraf
Yes sir. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is regarding your comment that once BFC will be connecting to Navashi spot in volumes. Could you help us understand currently what portion of our originating volumes is linked to JMPT to and pro JMPT 33.4% that’s of the originating volume sir. Or that it will include your Handling around the port and say other MMLP is around JMPT cells.
Sanjay Swarup
So this includes imports plus exports both.
Mukesh Saraf
Right, but this will include handling revenues as well. Sir.
Sanjay Swarup
No, this is not revenue, this is physical volume. I’m telling.
Mukesh Saraf
Okay, physical volumes, originating volumes is about 30 odd percent like you said. Okay, right. And so just trying to understand, once the DFT connects to Navashiva, the expectation that we’ll see a spot in volume. So there should be some shift from road to rail basically. So what proportion right now of volumes moving between say Dadri or NCR region to JNPT are moving by road currently?
Sanjay Swarup
It will not be some shift, it will be a substantial shift from road to rail. Because I will tell you because logistics, the people look for two things. First is transit time. Second is cost will be on DFC with the Nava Shiva. Then both the things will be taken care of transit time because we will be running timetable trains from Dadri to Namasheva. So there will be predictability in our services which will be welcomed by the trade as it has been in Dadri to Mundra circuit. Second thing is cost. When we run on train on dsc all will be double stack trains.
For upper deck there will be substantial cost saving. So without sacrificing my margins, I will share a part of these savings with my customers. And the light cargo which is at present not coming to rail, it is moving by road. All this light cargo will come to. So I am expecting substantial shift because of these two reasons, predictability and cost, the traffic will be coming to rail. And just to give you an estimate, at present the rail coefficient at Nava Shewa is in range of 17 to 18%. And as soon as BFC is commissioned immediately overnight it will not happen.
But at least by 1 1.5 years after that I’m very optimistic that this rail coefficient will double.
Mukesh Saraf
Okay. Okay, understood. So the reason I was asking to interrupt.
operator
Mrs. Saraf, may we request that you return to the question queue for follow up questions?
Mukesh Saraf
Oh, this is just my second question actually. No, I’ll just finish this last one. So the reason I was asking this because we haven’t seen the rail coefficient go up at Bundra though. So what was say around 25% in FY23 even now is around this 95% despite the growth to rail shift happening. So that’s the reason. You know, if you could just clarify this last point then I’ll get back in the queue. Thank you.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah, that’s a very good question. See now this 25%, how it is calculated, it includes transshipment volume also. So if you see originating actual numbers, actual numbers, there is a very good growth at Mumra import export. But because we are calculating it on percentage of the original overall handling at the port and there’s a sizeable chunk is there of tranship and volumes. Second reason is the DPD DPD also plays a very important role as the direct port delivery DPD and direct port entry for exports. So DPD DP is primarily moving by road at present. It’s not commit to rail.
So because of that also it is impacting the rail coefficient. These two factors are actually primarily responsible for rail coefficient remaining stagnant. Got it.
Mukesh Saraf
Great. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Priyankar Biswas from PNB Paribas. Please go ahead.
Priyankar Biswas
Thanks for the opportunity. Just harping back to the previous participants question sir, if you can give me some more color regarding jnpt like what extent of the volumes that happen at JNPT are relatively, let’s say low lead because that would ideally not shift to a rail. And also if you can give some idea because the understanding is that that most of the thc, most of the JNPT volumes that occur today at present is more aligned towards Maharashtra and northern Karnataka. So if you can give an idea is what actually of the DFC volumes that are happening today moves along the, let’s say the north south axis.
Sanjay Swarup
That’s a good question. Now the thing is that you are right. At present the JNPT lot of volume, I don’t have the numbers with me but lot of volume is moving to Maharashtra, Karnataka as well as to Andhra also. Because Hyderabad is also being catered primarily by jnpt. But there is lot of cargo which is moving from JNPT to and for JNPT and NCR area also. And a lot of this cargo is moving by road. So I am basically targeting this traffic. BFP of course will not impact the movement of Karnataka and Maharashtra and Andhra cargo.
It will remain like that. But the cargo which is available in North India which we are not able to handle by rail for Navashiva, these things will come to our soul.
Priyankar Biswas
So sir, does it imply, doesn’t it?
Sanjay Swarup
Because I don’t have with me right now.
Priyankar Biswas
So can it be fair to say that at least on the northern leg the number should be at least be higher than 30, 35% otherwise the rail coefficient really cannot move up. So would that be a right assessment? Broad ballpark.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah, you are right. It should Be no, but this is the number that I am telling you which is moving by rail. Actually road number road figures are much high like 33% that I told Concord volumes from coming from JNPT. It is only by rail. The road is not included in that. Because we are not having road service between JNPT and North India and other places.
Priyankar Biswas
No sir, what I meant is you said that real coefficient in JNPT is around 17% today and two years down the line it can double. So I am saying that around 30 35% could double. Where it can go up to that’s what is it. So is it fair to say that the north south volumes that occur that is along the WDFC route would be somewhere in this range.
Sanjay Swarup
That is what definitely it will be in this range.
Priyankar Biswas
So just one last question if you can share these data points. What are the real coefficients in the key ports like jnpt, Mumra and PP and what it was let’s say last year. That’s my final question.
Sanjay Swarup
Last year it was 16.6%. This year it is 15.7% Mundra last year it was 25.5%. This year it is 24% the power. Last year it was 62.4%. This year it is 57.8%.
Priyankar Biswas
Thanks so much sir.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sriji Kalekar from hspc. Please go ahead.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is in the just previous answer you said there’s been almost at each of the major ports there has been a loss of rail coefficient. Could you please elaborate what is really driving this loss of rail coefficient at JNPT Munda and P Power port.
Sanjay Swarup
See a primary reason is dpd. Are you familiar what is dpd?
Shrinidhi Karlekar
Yeah, Direct port delivery.
Sanjay Swarup
Right, Direct port delivery. So DPD is primarily moving by road. It is not moving by rail. This is first and second reason is the port volumes include transshipment volumes also when they give throughput of port they add transhipment volume also. So because transhipment is increasing. So this percentage figure is coming down.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
But that is a more of a phenomena in Mundra. Not much in JNPT and P power. But we see there also there is a sharp.
Sanjay Swarup
Not there but JNPT up to some extent it is there.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
Okay. Yes. In the second sir. See guided for a 10% EXIM volume growth. Can you please help us connecting it? How should one think about what does it imply in terms of originating volume? Because our double stacking is generally growing double digits and your first my last mile. You’re also aspiring to make 100%. So given these these helps in handling volume can you help us what are originating volume growth guidance. Are you really implying.
Sanjay Swarup
Actually I have given guidance for the handling throughput for exam and domestic so you can work out or we will help you subsequently. So how to give the. How to you know, work out the guidance for originating volume and financial. This we can work out subsequently. I don’t think we’ll have a lot of time now to discuss these things.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
You. You also said that this year we’re targeting 100% first my last mine may ask how much was it last financial year?
Sanjay Swarup
F 25 35%.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
Okay. And the last one bookkeeping if I may. So you in one of the answers you alluded that India level we handled about 23 million TEUs. May I have similar number for last year?
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah, I can tell you last year it was 21 million Tuscan.
Shrinidhi Karlekar
Thank you for answering my questions and all the very best.
operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Sumit from Access Capital. Please go ahead.
Sumit Kishore
Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity sir. My first question is. You know in your opening remarks you mentioned the possibility of acceleration in exim volume growth in fourth quarter if DFC were to materialize up to gmpt. Given our long held experience of delays here, another six month delay can very well happen. So in that event, how would your 10% guidance for EXIM on handling change for the fiscal similarly for domestic tank containers Ms. Brexit has been delaying, let us say delays happen this year also what would your guidance of you know, domestic volume growth of 20% change too.
So I’m just trying to evaluate the risk to your guidance.
Sanjay Swarup
See Sumit, I am a very optimistic person so I don’t know what forced you to ask this question. So in one of the TV interviews today morning one of the anchor asked me that there is a news that DSC will be commissioned to Navasheva by up to 1 and I you are telling December. So you are telling six months. Why not three months before December? You should ask me what should be your guidance then we had discussed in February and you were of the opinion.
Sumit Kishore
That it may get there to June also.
Sanjay Swarup
So June 26th it will be on time. On time.
Sumit Kishore
Okay, sure. Okay. My second question is then if you think about the reported EBITDA margin, I’m just trying to understand where the gap is coming. The reported EBITDA margin at standalone level is 21.4% and this figure in FY24 was 22.4%. So I mean I’m not including other income in EBITDA margin calculation so I was just trying to understand. You say stable margins of 24, 25%. I mean what are we, where are we differing in terms of the calculations on EBITDA margins?
Sanjay Swarup
See, as for my calculation for FY24, of course we can check it separately. FY24 EBITDA margin was 25.5%. That is 2300.69 crore rupees. For FY25 it is 24.9% I take it 25% which is 2330.4 crore rupees.
Sumit Kishore
Okay, I’ll follow up with your team in that case, you know thank you so much.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah, that will be better. Thank you very much.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Achal Goharde from Nirvama. Please go ahead.
Achal Lohade
Yeah, thank you for the follow up opportunity Sir. So you did mention about, you know the JNPT connection will drive the increase in volume. So in that connection I wanted to check a you know in terms of what kind of cost reduction or price reduction one can look at. As you said, we’ll try and maintain margin and pass on this. And what is the breakeven mid distance here on the western dft? If you could talk about these two assets please.
Sanjay Swarup
See at this moment we have not worked out our tariff for JNPT so I cannot tell you how much reduction we will make. But what was the second question? Breakeven distance. I did not understand. What do you mean by breakeven distance?
Achal Lohade
Basically you know earlier we used to say that around up to 500km road is more viable or economical than rail is. In the similar fashion if for the western DFC specifically what would that number be? Because in that case for the South Gujarat cargo can also move from road to rail on the dfc. I’m more curious to know because we, you know or alternatively if you could give us some sense about how much road cargo which is coming, you know, from NCR to jnpt.
Sanjay Swarup
I don’t have those numbers with me right now but we used to say that for 500km rail faces strict competition from road and only heavy cargo moves by rail. So this was the complete statement we used to make. But in DFC that constraint will not be there because in DFC even light cargo will move by rail because as I explained earlier light cargo will move on upper deck and we will reduce the rate substantially. So it is Moving that light cargo is moving by road at the moment. It will also come on rail. So that constraint will be removed in dfc.
Achal Lohade
Okay. And one more question. You know just a bookkeeping question. With respect to other expense. If I look at it has increased from 258 crores to 304 crores for full year. FY25. Is there any one off out here, sir? Because I see you know for the other expense 4th quarter the number looks very large compared to 3Q FY25.
Sanjay Swarup
I will request my ED finance. Maybe last quarter, maybe having. Maybe having some adjustments and.
Achal Lohade
All right. But for the full year also sir, 17% looks very large. Given our cost optimizations in the past.
Sanjay Swarup
No other expense include. You know a lot of expenses which are clubbed here. It has mainly expenses related to the maintenance of our depots and the equipment. So there is some increase in the maintenance part of our equipment and this thing. And there is some increase in our legal expense. Overall.
Achal Lohade
There is no. There is no one off. That’s what I guess is that.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah. Yes.
Achal Lohade
Okay. Understood. Sir, if you could help us with the port mix for FY24 as well. You have given for FY25. FY24. If you could help us with that.
Sanjay Swarup
Sorry, I don’t have with me right now. By 24th it will be more or less same.
Achal Lohade
Okay, understood. And empty cost for the fourth quarter. If you make for examine domestic only for fourth quarter which cost. Empty.
Sanjay Swarup
Empty running cost.
Achal Lohade
Yes sir. Empty running.
Sanjay Swarup
Empty running cost Is. EXIM is 31.6 crore. Domestic 65.8 crore. Total is 97.4 crore.
Achal Lohade
Got it. Thank you so much, sir.
Sanjay Swarup
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Khan Danya from Jeffries. Please go ahead.
Danish Kahn
Yeah. Hi sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Three questions from my end starting with. Sir, on the exim side, you know you did allude to the fact that you spoke. You are having some conversations with the shipping lines. So how is the. I mean how did those shape up? You know post the recent tariffs by the US administration and then waiver on the China side. So over the things with respect to EA on the trade movement or the content availability side. And in that context how should we look at the growth? I mean first off, as I say, second off kind of scenario, keeping aside whatever happens on the dfc, that’s one and two.
Second question. Sir, relatively again on the exit side, how should we look at the margins from here? Because if I were to look at it on an alternating volume Basis we saw a sharp decline this quarter. So how should we look at it on a sustainable basis?
Sanjay Swarup
See as far as the tariffs and all are concerned now you must be knowing there is a 90 days pause. So it is not having much impact on our business in Exim. So more or less it is stable now import exports and for your first second quarter. But our originating volume have increased. You are saying it has come down.
Danish Kahn
No sir, I am looking at the margin. EBIT margin on per on an originating basis. So that’s why sharp decline in this quarter.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah. As I told you earlier to other person who was asking question this was the fourth quarter, final quarter of the financial year. So whatever discounts and all rebates we have to give everything we you know settled in fourth quarter. So you can see the perspective, whole perspective the for the financial year. Because in fourth quarter all these things will be there in our expenses. So it appears as if the margins are less in fourth quarter. But in Exim margins are maintained in every quarter. So there’s no issue, no worries, no concern should be there on your part.
Danish Kahn
Okay sir, again just a bookkeeping question on the operating expenses side excluding the LLF throughout the year we saw a sharp increase ahead of your volumes or revenue number. So just trying to understand what has changed here excluding the LLs.
Sanjay Swarup
I don’t have numbers with me. Such detailed analysis only you young bright people can do. We will have to work on it and get back to you.
Danish Kahn
Sure sir, no worries. Thank you and all. Abhishek.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Disha from Ashika Institutional. Please go ahead.
Disha Giria
Thank you. So you had earlier mentioned that we are planning on commissioning four new terminals. So if you could just give some insights on it.
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah. These terminals are very critical terminals for us. One is a Salawa near Jodhpur which will be the. Which will be catering to the Jodhpur area. It’s very very crucial. We will be able to run double stack trains from Bundrapur to this terminal. Because right now we are not running any double stack train to Jodhpur. And when we run double stack trains we will divert lot of business from road to rail. So as I told you the business at new terminals this is one of the potential area where we will get more business. Second terminal is at Pakri near Haridwar.
We don’t have any presence in that area. And we have had talks with various stakeholders there. So we are going to get a lot of domestic traffic there. Patanjali has a very big presence there. So this Terminal will also give us very good growth. Then we have targeted at Mandalgarh. Mandalgarh is also a very good place where we can tap the traffic of Bhinwala and other Kota nearby areas. And doc traffic is also there. Stones are also there and fabric just Beenwara there. So we have lot of business provincial at Mandalgra also and fourth is at Chunar.
Chunar is near Banaras, Banarasi. There also there is lot of carpet industry. All these four terminals are very crucial for us in for future.
Disha Giria
So we are already in talks of commissioning it. So I’m assuming we would have some deadline in mind or if you could just mention it.
Sanjay Swarup
Yes of course we have deadlines and our people are working right now. I don’t have those deadlines with me but they will be commissioned quite quickly.
Disha Giria
All right. Thank you.
Sanjay Swarup
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vumika Nair from Dam Capital. Please go ahead.
Bhoomika Nair
Yes sir. Yes sir. Yes sir. So just before we close out just one or two small questions. One is on Varnama. You know December onwards Varnama had started off and if you can just talk about the benefits. Obviously the double stacking continues to go up. But has it helped us in terms of the margin profile etc. If you can talk a little bit about that.
Sanjay Swarup
See one number per se we have not calculated separately but definitely it has helped us. Because we have done double stacking for JNPT but we have not revised our tariffs. So whatever saving, whatever margins are there we are keeping it with us. We have not shared it with our customers till now. Operationally of course benefit is being experienced by our customers but commercial benefit is only with us. So numbers I don’t have. But definitely it is helping us to have good margins.
Bhoomika Nair
Sure. So the other question is in terms of the long term agreements and volume discounts that shipping lines we are giving or customers, corporate customers. So what percentage of our volumes is these kind of. You know these kind of long term contracts that we would have done in FY25 or in fourth quarter. Any kind of understanding?
Sanjay Swarup
As far as EXIM is concerned almost 20 shipping lines have signed the agreement. So this is a very big volume. They come cover almost entire volume. So as far as domestic is concerned we are in talks with big corporate customers like Vedanta. Already we have signed agreement. Jindal also we are going to sign very soon. And we are in talk with JK Group also. I recently had a meeting with their MD. So efforts we are going continuing and Tatas also we are going to approach Seal also steel authority. We met. So they are also very keen to work with us.
So we are going to sign agreements with all of these people very soon. And we’ll get good volumes.
Bhoomika Nair
But right now as we speak today, sir, is it a very meaningful large amount of our volumes or largely all this will kick in in the next year?
Sanjay Swarup
No, it will kick in this year only because. But in domestic lot of volume is fragmented. All is not there with corporate customers. Like the ceramic tile at Gujarat. I will give you an example. Ceramic tiles business at Gujarat is a fragmented business. There is no single person who controls the business. But cement plants, cement manufacturers with whom we are tying up, they are very big people. Ultratech, my home cement. They are well known big corporate customers. So it’s a mix of both.
Bhoomika Nair
Okay. So difficult to give a percentage of total volumes which would be more long term oriented per se. And would the realization drop also be because of this discount that we are giving to these customers? So which is why we are on a reported basis seeing these discounts and a drop in realizations?
Sanjay Swarup
Yeah, definitely. In a competitive environment we have to have some tools by marketing tools by which we attract our customers. So some discounts we have to give.
Bhoomika Nair
Understood sir, understood. Great. Sir, this is helpful. Really appreciate you taking time out for all the investors and all the participants on the call and giving us an opportunity to host the call. Wish you all the very best. And any closing comments from your side, sir?
Sanjay Swarup
No, no, nothing. I just want to say that company is having very strong fundamentals and we are giving a very strong infrastructure push. And our board of directors was appreciative about the performance of our employees. And the board of directors also wanted to reward the shareholders which they have done by bonus shares and good dividend. So I hope we will be doing better in FY26. Thank you very much.
operator
On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines. The person you are speaking with has put your call on hold. Please stay on the line.