Computer Age Management Services Ltd (NSE: CAMS) Q2 2025 Earnings Call dated Oct. 29, 2024
Corporate Participants:
Anuj Kumar — Managing Director
Ram Charan Sesharaman — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Shivani Karwat — Analyst
Prayesh Jain — Analyst
Supratim Datta — Analyst
Uday Pai — Analyst
Lalit — Analyst
Abhijeet — Analyst
Devesh — Analyst
Dipanjan Ghosh — Analyst
Aman Soni — Analyst
Dev Shah — Analyst
Santosh — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Welcome to the Q2 FY ’25 Earning Call of Computer Age Management Services Limited. We have Mr. Anuj Kumar, Managing Director of CAMS; Mr. Ram Charan SR, CFO; and Mr. Anish Sawlani, Head, Investor Relation. As a reminder, all participant line will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask question after the presentation concludes. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Shivani Karwat from Orient Capital. Thank you, and over to you, ma’am.
Shivani Karwat — Analyst
Good morning everyone. Welcome to the Q2 and H1 FY ’25 earnings conference call for Computer Age Management Services Limited. As mentioned today, from the management, we have with us Mr. Anuj Kumar, Managing Director; Mr. Ram Charan SR, CFO; and Mr. Anish Sawlani, Head of Investor Relations.
Before we proceed to start the call, I would like to give a small disclaimer that this conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties, which are difficult to predict. A detailed disclaimer has also been published in the investor presentation which was released to the stock exchange. I hope everybody had a chance to go through the presentation.
I will now hand over the call to Mr. Anuj Kumar, Managing Director. Thanks, everyone. And over to you, sir.
Anuj Kumar — Managing Director
Yeah, Shivani. Good morning and thank you very much. Good morning to all the participants. Appreciate like always all of you making time to join the earnings call of CAMS. I trust that I’m audible and that you were able to download the presentation and have a copy of it, because we’ll continue referring to that and refer to the individual chart numbers.
Broadly, as you would have seen in the press release and the other releases yesterday, we had a fabulous quarter. There were a number of reasons what led to that happening. I’ll take you to those, but historically perhaps our best quarter ever. Across metrics of asset growth in MF, revenue growth in MF, revenue growth in non-MF, and overall success in the marketplace in acquiring business and expanding the installed base. And then from a margin profile perspective, again has been a very strong story.
I am on chart number eight, and we’ll take you through some of the key highlights. Overall, at company level, enterprise level, revenue grew 32.7%. MF was slightly ahead of non-MF. You know that has been our endeavor to scale non-MF faster, but MF grew 32.9%. Non-MF by itself just short of 32% I think is a very credible number because early 30s, early to mid-30s is the number we’ve been reporting now for a few quarters. There are foundational aspects to this number scaling up. And also there was a time when this was a small base number. Not anymore. It’s a relatively large base number.
So very happy to continue sharing with you the revenue growth profile in non-MF at just short of 32%. Share of non-MF revenue, which is hovering around 13% was 12.9% of overall revenue. I think a good cause why it did not expand because MF expanded just ahead of everything else. Absolute EBITDA, and you know that in these results, this is our standard policy of recognizing revenue. There are no lumps. There are no one-time payouts by clients. There’s none of those. It’s exactly the way we’ve been reporting revenue for the last many years.
Based on that EBITDA, absolute EBITDA grew almost 40%. EBITDA percentage grew 240 points up on an annual basis just short of 47 [Phonetic], about 46.9 [Phonetic], but I think very heartening. We’ve said in the past that it’s our endeavor to grow this margin number about a percent a year. But at 2.4%, that’s just great success. And absolute PAT grew 44.9%. PAT percentage at 32.4% was 270 basis points up. So EBITDA percentage 240 basis points up, PAT percentage up 270 basis points. And historically I can’t remember a quarter when all these numbers lined up straight to tell a story like what I’m telling you right now.
Based on all of this, very happy to share with you that the CAMS board has approved an interim dividend of INR25. This INR25 is essentially two components. INR14.5 is what traditionally we would have paid per our 65% payout policy. But just given the fact that we’ve had a strong run overall from an earnings perspective, we did believe and the board did believe that it was time to kind of signal to the markets that we want to reward them out.
So the balance INR10.5 is part of what we call a special interim dividend, which obviously from a recurrence perspective, the 65% is the policy we will be staying true to. The INR10.5 is special. So INR14.5 and INR10.5 add up to INR25 and that’s the dividend that has been approved and declared as of yesterday.
I’ll move to the next, I’ll move to chart number seven, just key highlights. And I’m sure all of you have processed this quite well. But in aggregate, at just close to INR45 lakh crore or INR45 trillion AUM, this is the fastest quarterly growth. We added almost INR5 lakh crore in a quarter. Now traditionally you’ve known that that is almost like a year’s increase.
There are years when I felt happy about growing AUM by INR5 lakh crore to INR6 lakh crore in a year. This time it happened in a quarter, which is a historic high and of course, that’s linked to the state of the markets, but great acquittance for us. Equity assets, and this is active equity, which kind of defines the P&L because it’s almost upwards of 60% of overall MF revenue contribution grew almost 60%.
So equity assets grew almost 59.4%, much ahead of the rest of the industry at 53.5%. This then defined a share gain in equity AUM. Obviously it would. So equity AUM is up about 100 basis points, up to about 66%. That’s a very relevant metric. Of course, any asset growth is a relevant metric. But equity is decidedly so because it’s the core of the retail markets and it’s core of the revenue base for the MF business.
Net sales, which have been kind of creeping up in the industry at one time, net sales used to accrue largely from SIP monthly collections. This time CAMS has got a number of over INR1 lakh crore, industry about INR1.5 lakh crore. So we are 66% of industry net sales and I think that’s just a very good measure of retail participation continuing to enhance.
New fund offerings, which have now become good kind of go to market theme for the domestic mutual funds. CAMS grew or sold NFOs or funds sold NFOs was about INR27,000 crore, industry was about INR45,000 crore. There was a slew of large sectoral fund launches and I think some of the benefit of these does show up in other parts of the business, especially in payments and KRA because a lot of these are new to the MF industry. Investors who walk in through the NFO route and then when they are onboarded, we get an up on the KRA and accretion and revenue and also on the payment side, especially if some of these people coming through NFOs and SIPs.
Record high SIP registration, again a fantastic metric which is about the middle and bottom of the pyramid, just buying into this theme, which I think is what all of you know and continue to believe in, is the theme for the times to come as MFs and SIPs become more and more retail products. 1.2 crore new SIPs were registered during the quarter.
In one month, it was 45 lakh. We are bracing ourselves for shortly for that number to get to 50 lakh in some months. But 1.2 crore, again just to remind you, three years back this used to be an annual number, became a quarterly number now. And again given the fact that SIPs are kind of asset accruing for almost a lifetime, a large part of them, some will [Indecipherable].
The rest will stay for a lifetime and a very, very solid foundational metric. SIP collections you’ve been reading, we were up 54% year-on-year compared to 48% for the rest of the industry. So I think each one of these, the reason I continue calling them foundational metrics versus what happened in the quarter, but none of this is about a quarter or what will happen only in a quarter and then vanish. These are stable almost lifetime flows of assets, lifetime foundational revenue creators for the enterprise.
Beyond mutual funds, on the non-MF side, alternatives came back. We reported some follow-ups last quarter. If you’re running a business which is almost a decade and a quarter old, you will have some follows. I think this time 21% year-on-year revenue growth had the highest number of quarterly events, 57 new mandates. This covers everything that we do, includes WealthServ, includes GIFT City and includes the base AIF and PMS.
You would have also read that about two weeks back, a week and a half back we opened our second office in GIFT City and again you would realize we are putting our money where our mouth is. So we opened this office, we had a small office. We now have almost a 50 seater, very good inauguration. And it’s a good signaling to the market that we are serious about this. We put our money where our mouth is, filling it up with both infrastructure and people.
On the KRA side, I think the good work done by the team continues to unfold. You will recollect that last year we had sequentially, on an annual basis, reported just short of 100% revenue growth. So FY ’24 over FY ’23 was about a 95% plus revenue growth. Now when you expanded the base and that’s the reason I said that these are not small base stories.
You see a 56% year-on-year quarterly growth which I think is again, one, it is a vindication of what’s happening in the core market of MFs where individual investors are not buying a single MF, but they go to the second and the third and the fourth. And the second is that all the new sales we had done, the new logo sales which obviously hasn’t happened too much in MF, because we already sold to everyone who was eligible. So this is largely on the fintech broking demat side.
You see that we added about 26 new fintechs platforms and those kind of companies to the client roster. Significantly adding non-MF plans to the overall stock which is very heartening because that’s the true diversification of revenue and clientele and then helps us in other ways as we go and sell other services apart from KRA to the same client.
On a similar theme, again, I think just a fantastic foundational story from a CAMSPay perspective. Revenue of 69%, this was on the back of about late 20s growth last year but CAMSPay is seeing adoption. Similar story to KRA, the base is buying more and more. I think the base growth story is led by SIPs but is also led by recurring payments and housing finance, insurance and other recurring payments avenues.
And then you know that in general the digital payment story is expanding. We have now some revenue getting reported by the education segment, small numbers, but we are taking on a more aggressive view for FY ’26 and of course, UPI AutoPay continues to kind of lead the charge because it is almost becoming the preferred way to pay for recurring payments especially in a backyard which is in MF SIPs.
Bima Central unique user base has grown over 2.5 lakh. Mobile downloads of 50,000. Small milestone, but notable milestone which is that we process 1 lakh service transactions which is people coming and doing renewal kind of payments or doing an address change through Bima Central. Of course, we have to — this number has to be 10 times to be meaningful, but you always make a start in life and I think this 1 lakh we are treating it as a very nice milestone. Remember that there are only two or three insurers integrated right now. That part has to expand quite a bit. But as it expands, very hopeful to scale this number to several x times.
Also I think heartening to me and to us is the fact that we have doubled. And this is a number I spoke about last quarter, but we used to have, you will remember, 5 lakh new policies accruing to insurance every quarter. That was a baseline for about all of FY ’24. FY ’25, 1Q we crossed 10 lakh which is 1 million in the first quarter, 9.8 lakh, so close to another 1 million in the second quarter. Hopefully, we will keep this and make it a baseline which means you will continue seeing not 5 lakh or 6 lakh but maybe 10 lakh or 11 lakh conversions every quarter.
You know this is the base of what the company of what the business is as we get more and more individuals into insurance, we get the conversion and the maintenance fees within — come on to Bima Central, pay the premiums to renewals, we’ll file the claims. So it’s the basic core formative block, that part has behaved very well.
Account aggregator, we continue to hold 16.5% market share. So year-on-year large growth quarter-on-quarter almost flat. But again, I think we’re very happy with the way the business is progressing. NPS about 2.5 times of year-on-year growth. I will show you some of the numbers, crossed 1 lakh subscribers. We’ve held the position on number two in eNPS.
And then you would have read this that we formally — this was due for some time. We formally approved and are in the process of capitalizing forming this JV, should happen soon. The MF Central JV along with the other RTA, KFin and this platform will then have scope to kind of expand and do a lot many more things than what it has done so far. It opens up a much broader playing field for the property to scale.
So that’s in summary. Just given the time we have, I will breeze through some of the other stuff. Transaction volumes, I’m in chart number eight. Don’t want to draw you into a lot of details. Only thing I’ll say is that the company has grown all this revenue growth that you’re seeing has happened on the back of almost 60% transaction growth. 60% transaction growth whether you’re selling cars or you’re registering SIPs or triggering payments is never easy. And you’ve seen the exemplary level of control and compliance and everything else that the team has been able to deliver. Guess with these number and just wanted to kind of just speak about that a little.
Unique PANs, these are unique investors coming into the industry and into CAMS. 31% up, again ahead of the industry. And the reason again I’m telling you this is, this is formative and foundational because the same people who come in months will do the next transaction and the next and the next, they will continue expanding so that’s foundational. SIP collections obviously grew very well. 54% up compared to 48% for rest of the industry. Equity AUM grew 59%. Equity net sales grew above 90%, just touching about INR1 lakh crore. New SIP registrations had 30% growth overall on a year-on-year basis — sorry, on a first quarter to second quarter basis.
Let’s move forward. You’ve seen these numbers. I’m on chart number nine, so I will not spend too much time on our quarterly market share at about 68%. Equity of course has grown faster than the industry that you’ve seen.
Go to the next. I’ll quickly take you maybe a minute each on the individual businesses. Chart number 11. We spoke about alternatives. Good growth returning, 21% revenue growth on the back of healthy signings, 57 new signings. I think the thing I just want to call out is that we were kind of the pioneers in digitization starting in ’21. During COVID, the WealthServ 360 platform 165 sign up.
This number is close to 175 now as we’re progressing in the quarter, but 165 at the end of the quarter. A large quantum of our intake is becoming efficient not just for CAMS but for AIF and PMSs. Their interaction with their customers are becoming more efficient because it’s all being done digitally. If someone in Delhi has a customer in Moradabad, you don’t have to really go there. You can do all of this digitally. So it’s changing the face of the industry and also making it a lot more productive and a lot more digitized.
I spoke about GIFT City, 20 plus clients, second office, a 50-seater having been opened. And then Fintuple which has had strong success with the custodial operations and bringing in automation on the custody side for custodies to integrate with PMSs and later with AIFs to onboard their customers, has now built out and is launching its NPS product. It’s an NPS PoP automation and onboarding product which integrates with all these three CRAs. Also eUpyog is a platform, which integrates the strength of e-documentation, e-signing, e-stamping, can create electronic workflows and then you can take this either through a standard integration or API. So try to, I mean, move into adjacent markets which offer opportunity. I think I’m very, very pleased with the way the team has kind of thought this out and is implementing these things in the market, both from a CAMS AIF perspective and the Fintuple perspective.
I move to chart number 12 on CAMS KRA. I spoke about the upward trajectory, that’s 56% year-on-year, revenue growth 26 new fintech non-MF additions. That’s what I want to underscore. I think it’s a very strong combination. Think360 is Kwik ID at the front. That’s a fantastic KYC solution. Very slick. And then the KRA’s seamless onboarding journey. All of that is great news. I spoke about the GFF launch of Nexus, which is a KRA Dashboard in the WhatsApp KYC, which we are now bringing out in the market, which will further ease the interactive flow of new capital markets, consumers just joining up and doing a new KYC. Whichever entity they’re signing up with, the entire flow can happen on WhatsApp, almost all of them.
On Rep, I will gave you the highlights. About 7.5 million in aggregate insurance accounts. About 94 lakh e-policies out of which, just under 10 lakh came this quarter, 10 lakh came in the last quarter. 40% market share now have SBI General and ICIC Pru as the two integrated insurers in Bima Central. Two more insurers we should be able to report I think maybe sometime by mid to late November.
And you know that as each of them come in, they then strongly start promoting Bima Central and that then becomes a preferred way for customers to interact with their insurers. 47 out of the 55 licensed insurers and this will just tell you about the breadth of acceptance. This is not a depth metric. Depth I think can be a lot better than where we are at one million policies in a quarter. We could be at 2 million or 3 million, but from a breadth perspective, 47 out of 55 insurers met, regularly contributing e-policies in Bima Central. Bima Central also was awarded by ASSOCHAM, recognized for best use of technology in the insurance industry.
I’ll flip to the next. I spoke about payments, revenue up 69% year-on-year. UPI Autopay and you know some of this is being also used for small ticket SIPs etc., up over 100%. Significant amount of product enhancement occurring, 23 new logos in 2Q. I wanted to mention LIC. You will remember that LIC was empaneled for auth services. We had announced this maybe in February, March, around that time, Jan, Feb, March. Those services have gone live. Delivery has commenced. Even for payment gateway services, LIC has now empaneled CAMSPay which is a good starting sign for a large behemoth to be wanted to work with us. So I think that could turn into a large client account for us over a period of time.
From a finserv perspective, I spoke about 16.5% market share holding Q-on-Q, 9.6% last year. So significant growth, about — again small numbers but about 170% year-on-year revenue growth. These are small numbers, so we’re waiting for them to scale a little more. But I think by the fourth quarter these numbers should be much larger from absolute revenue perspective.
I think the analytics part of the entire stack, which is the Aamaze platform, both Bank Statement Analyzer and the Personal Finance Management is now finding enough traction. We’re just crossing about [Indecipherable] in a month. Of course the numbers can be 10 times of that number but we’ve crossed 1 lakh. That’s a good metric, a good starting metric to have and we’re expecting we should see multiple x of scale up within the year.
On Think, Algo360 won a mandate from LTFS and from Stable Money. So we will see go-live happening by December January. I spoke about Aamaze both the PFM and the Bank Statement Analyzer, both are run by the Think team. Continue to see expansion. The entire thing that I spoke about Fintuple, the platform that they are building, the onboarding and video KYC paths will be with things so that from a synergy perspective continues to expand and do well.
Go to the next. And then NPS, I spoke about and I’ll underscore us crossing overall 1 lakh CRA accounts. This is largely retail and private sector employee-led. We haven’t yet cracked much in government, bringing in a variety of PoPs on the platform. I think Indian Bank starting off with us was good news, but we continue — although it’s a long haul business, we continue to focus on this and focus on scaling it.
Next. Okay, so this is what I had. Hope this is useful. I’m handing over to Ram Charan who will take you through the financials. You should have about 25 minutes for Q&A after that.
Ram Charan Sesharaman — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Anuj. Anuj has covered the salient points of the financials in the first place. I will just take five minutes for one level of detail. As you would have noted, our AUM had a very smart growth of 37% during the current quarter. We ended with INR45.27 lakh crores. On the back of it, the overall revenue grew 33%, almost 32.7%.
We ended the quarter at INR365 crores and the mutual fund revenue also grew around 33% at INR318 crores. So overall, INR365 crores consisted of MF revenue of INR318 crores and non-MF revenue of INR47 crores. The good part of this is that growth has been uniform across all segments. From a MF perspective and even within MF you had the asset-based revenue grow at around 32.7% and non-asset-based revenue grow at 34%. The asset-based revenue tracked lastly the growth in AUM.
We’ve seen a quarter of stable yields. We generally say that the growth of AUM to growth of AUM fee is around 75%. This time you had the AUM fee proportion to be around 84%. So yields have been largely stable back of obviously good growth in equity mutual fund. The mix is favorable. And also happy to say that the discussion that we have concluded with some large customers are well within expectations in terms of what the yield will be.
So overall we see stable yields. We see good growth from asset based and non-asset-based revenue. The non-asset-based revenue is driven largely by increase in transaction revenue, big increase in transactions, both digital as well as paper and also MF Central is a part of this and also some increase in NFO revenue as well as call center revenue. So that’s contributing to a healthy increase in the non-asset-based revenue on a year-on-year basis 34%.
Non-MF revenue, again we went into details and Anuj went into the details of each and every business. I’ll just add that we had AIF coming back to a good growth trajectory in 21% year-on-year and a 7% quarter-on-quarter. Similarly, payments has done very well in terms of revenue growth, 69% growth year-on-year and 15% quarter-on-quarter and KRA has also continued its strong performance with 56% growth year-on-year and 18% quarter-on-quarter. So overall three, four businesses are firing very well in the non-MF front and the growth is 31.9% year-on-year and 7% quarter-on-quarter.
On the profits perspective, we’ve had a very, very strong EBITDA quarter. One of the biggest margins you’ve seen in the recent past at 46.9%, INR171 crores. This is up 140 bps even on a sequential basis. So very strong performance from a margin perspective. EBITDA again is INR163 crores, 43.4% and PAT was very strong at INR122 crores for the quarter at a 32.4 percentage or almost 270 bps on a year-on-year basis and about 100 bps on a quarter-on-quarter.
The costs have been largely on expected lines. The employee cost grew around 20% a year-on-year basis, driven mainly by some hiring. Obviously hiring has not been in proportion to the increase in transactions or complexity. It’s been a little muted when compared to the growth, overall but there has been some increase in pay for the employee. So the employee cost however remains very well within target with 32% overall revenue.
Operating expenses, again well within expected lines. Some increases we have seen in OPE, which is again billing item, so it will not affect the bottom line as such and some increases because of transaction in SMS cost and cloud has been — because all our new businesses run on cloud, there has been some increase in the cloud cost.
The other expenses are fixed expenses. We did see some one-time expenses this time because of activities like the MF Central incorporation or data privacy preparation that we are doing given the ramifications that it’s got for the entire industry. So there are some one-off professional charges in this for a couple of cores, but otherwise largely in line. The only exception that we see going forward is yesterday there was a grant of equity of options, the ESOPs that went to employees.
So going forward, post there could be some increase that you will see on the ESOP cost. Incremental cost for the year could be around a little more than INR4 crores. And next year you could have some incremental cost because of that. Barring that, we see usual hiring costs coming in. We’ve already invested a lot on talent. You’ve got top tech colleges, people coming and making a difference on the ground over the last couple of quarters.
Those costs should be broadly stable. The variable cost will increase in line with revenue which is the sponsored bank charges that we pay for the payments or the cloud costs that we incur for the new business or the data entry charges that we incur for physical transactions. Those will increase in line with the revenue. The other expenses and employee cost should remain broadly stable.
So that was a short commentary I wanted to give on the profit and the cost. And as you would have noted, the board had granted a special dividend of INR10.5 and overall dividend of INR25 per share. Before that my cash and cash equivalent as on balance sheet was very healthy at INR732 crores as of 30th of September.
So I will now pass and hand over back to the moderator and open it up for any questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead sir.
Prayesh Jain
Yeah, sir, congrats on good set of numbers. Sir, just a few questions from my side. Firstly on the MF side, we’ve heard AMCs talking about rationalization of commission structures and basically that is to kind of protect their yields falling further materially because of the telescopic structure. So this is more of a fundamental long-term question. Do you think if the industry is moving towards that? Our yields should also be kind of protected at the current levels or how should we think about this because I think that could be one of the key things to be thought about from a medium-term perspective. Second question was on CAMSPay. If you could split up your business into say non — one is SIP and the other is non-SIP, that would be helpful.
Third would be on Think360. We see revenue decline in this quarter. Could you highlight the reasons for the same? And lastly just a feedback. If you could give some profitability numbers across the key segments at the EBITDA level, that would be of great help for us. Thank you so much.
Anuj Kumar
Sure. Thanks, Prayesh. So I’ll try to take your questions in sequence. On the yield profile, I think you have the history of the company now for almost a decade, right, published history for a decade, and my estimate would be that yield behavior is not radically going to change because we are not expecting any other radical event to happen. Our delivery continues to become immensely complex as with process, regulation, risk management, et cetera going up. And we continue to sell at slightly cheaper rates because of the telescopic pricing in successive years. As a result of that, whichever metric you look at, whether you look at a portfolio price, which is a derived price, it’s not the price, but if you look at a portfolio price of cost, if you look at a per transaction cost, in absolute rupee terms, they are diminishing and they don’t diminish anywhere else in the world or in any other form of procurement that any of our clients does. So I think the telescopic impact will continue more or less in line with what we’ve seen happen in the last decade, et cetera. Of course, everybody wants to buy cheap. It is not that anybody is trying to buy dear from us. So we are not expecting any radical shift in risk profile from now on.
Your second question was in CAMSPay. Think of CAMSPay as about a little over 50% of the business accruing from mutual funds. So between 55% to 60%, and the balance business is non-MF business. In MF, you can assume that most of this is about SIP. SIPs have grown significantly as you’ve seen in the last year. So the business does get some fill up from that, which is a good thing to happen. So that was your question on trying to split the activity and revenue levels. I’m not giving you an exact revenue number because prices may be different, but in essence, you can think of about 55% or around that to be MF contribution and the rest is non-MF to the overall CAMSPay book.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Yeah, on the — Prayesh, on your question on the breakup of non-MF margins, we’ve actually said that it has been creeping up over the last few quarters and this trend continues in the current quarter. We have non-MF margins, we said was around 15%. So it’s gone up to closer to 19% this time, obviously on the back of good growth on pay and KRA, right. So this is again on a higher trend. We listen to your feedback on publishing these numbers. We’ll have a look at it and probably next quarter we’ll have — we’ll kind of do something.
Prayesh Jain
Sir, on Think360, could you mention as to why was the revenue lower in this quarter?
Anuj Kumar
Yeah, absolutely. So Think360, as you know, the Kwik ID part has been the growing part which is the video KYC, the Algo 360 part where I shared that we won new contracts with LTFs and Stable Money, part of that is seeing some cannibalization from account aggregator. Our view was that account aggregator will cannibalize some of that, but we put the entire Aamaze part which is the TSP++ in Think, thinking that the puts and takes will almost be the same. But looks like some of the revenue down has not been made up in that closed space. So think of account aggregator taking away some share from Algo 360 and we making up through AI analytics. But that makeup is not completely that much. And then there were some US analytics contracts which they are done on a six month, one year, one and a half year basis. They’re not annuity contracts. They come to an end. And some of those, one or two of those have come to an end. So that really adds up, but we are expecting that revenue from here should show growth.
Prayesh Jain
Got it. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead, sir.
Supratim Datta
Thanks a lot for the opportunity. So I’ll start off on the MF RTA side, just looking at the trends over the last two weeks where the AUM has come off. So is there a mechanism built into the pricing wherein if the AUM decline or AUMs go up, is that a mechanism also built into the pricing model? That is the one thing I wanted to understand. Two is, if I see on the Account Aggregator side, RBI is launching a unified lending interface which is similar to an account aggregator platform, but backed by the regulator. So how do you see that impacting the account aggregator industry and our business?
And the third question is on the expenses front. There has been a significant pickup in the other expenses. I do understand that you have explained that some of this is linked to transactions and going up, but just wanted to understand what proportion of this would be of the variable increase that is due to flows versus what is a permanent increase. If you could give us some sense around that, that would be very helpful. Thank you.
Anuj Kumar
Sure. So the first part of your question was that you’ve seen equity assets come down in the last 15 days, which is true. There has been an asset down over the last two, three weeks. Does that impact pricing and do prices go up and assets go down? The answer is yes. Think of it like anything else that you buy in bulk. If you’re paying INR10 for 10 units, but you’re paying only INR14 for 15 units, when you go back to 10, you’re paying INR10 for 10 and when you come up again to 15, you’re paying INR14 for 15. So it is that telescopic which means when assets fall, the previous higher rates play out. Do we have to negotiate for them or are they hardcoded in the price? They’re hardcoded in the contract, so we don’t have to negotiate. Think of any slab-based pricing that you have seen in life, it is exactly like that. You buy so much and you get this price. But if you’re buying only 90% of that, your price goes up. So that’s an automatic adjustment which happens in the invoicing. We haven’t faced this too many times, but during the one year of COVID all through calendar 2020, this happened to us. So that’s the answer to your first question.
On the unified lending interface, will that start impacting AA as a model and us as a company, you have read everything in the press and obviously, there are common areas. Obviously, there are common areas. We are also watching the space very closely. But, yes, for me to say that it will not have any impact that is ruled out will not be right. We are observing it carefully. If the regulatory platform starts doing exactly what commercial AAs are doing, then obviously the impact will be there. There’s no question about it. But I suggest we just watch it and see how it emerges over a period of time. That’s point number two.
On expenses, I’ll just ask Ram Charan to speak.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Yeah. So I think your question was more on the non-salary expenses and how they are variable. So I’ll just split into two. If you see, there is an operating expenses that we incur which is more variable in nature. So traditionally, if you take away the out of pocket expenses or the reimbursed expenses, that is around 8% to 8.5% of the overall revenue. And that has been our experience and trend over the last few years. So we don’t see that changing a lot, especially given that we are into cloud for the new businesses and which are ramping up and the bank charges that we need to pay for the ECS and the UPI autopay stuff. So that kind of relationship continues to hold and we don’t see any reason why that will break in the future which is operating expenses being around 8% to 8.5% of revenue.
The other expenses is a fixed cost. And I think over the last few quarters we have been around INR25 crores to INR28 crores of absolute numbers during a quarter which was around INR21 crores, INR22 crores in the last quarter. So you will continue to see inflation-led expenses, the AMCs that we continue to pay, the rent increases that we continue to incur. Last time, as I was mentioning, there is some one-off expenses for a couple of crores in these INR28 crores that we have. But again, these one off expenses have a habit of repeating as a different one-off expense in a different quarter. So I wouldn’t read too much into it except that we were stabilizing around INR25 crores to INR30 crores of other expenses and 8% of operating expenses.
Supratim Datta
Got it. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Uday Pai from Investec. Please go ahead, sir.
Uday Pai
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Most of my questions have been answered. Just one thing, you mentioned that the new JV with regards to MF Central would open up some opportunity — new areas that can be explored. Can you put some light on that?
Anuj Kumar
Yeah, sure. So as you know, this was envisioned as an industry platform for easing out issues of investor connect, servicing, transaction origination, all of those things for MF industry — MF investors at an industry level was launched in 2021, has ran the last about two and a half to three years in that format where anyone who wants to use the APIs who wants to connect with MF Central as an enterprise would come and do individual contracts with KFin and CAMS. Although they would deal with the platform, the platform did not have an entity, an organization, an org structure, capital of its own to think of promoting or marketing itself or really building very large game-changing assets of its own. Today the servicing and the revenue base is essentially of two types. If you, as an individual investor, come to MF Central, then you can transact. If you come through APIs, which are given to other platforms, you can take a cash, you will do non-financial transactions, but financial transactions haven’t really built themselves out in a meaningful way. Other utilities like loan against mutual funds which are other revenue possibilities are also in the launch stage, but haven’t really hit the market. When we create the entity which take another few more weeks, I think with an independent organization, its own capital, very, very focused market-facing decision making on salesforce.
The ability of the JV to work with the market on especially the things that I said which is financial transaction risk, loan against mutual funds and other emerging areas that make a mark, I think that ability will get enhanced and will be much more sharper. So we are expecting that to be generally growth-accretive for the JV, but also a lot better and I would say a wider frame service to the industry because that is the real objective of the platform.
Uday Pai
Okay, sure sir. Just to — another question with regards to this. How much would — is there any revenue from mutual fund MF Central that we are booking into our books or is it just right now servicing? How is it right now?
Anuj Kumar
So currently the model is more kind of API-based. So we have consolidated account statements or capital gain statements and non-financial transactions APIs which are consumed by some intermediaries. Yes, we are booking revenue in our respective books. In the current quarter, the revenue will be around INR1.7 crores of — it’s 50-50 revenue split between the two RTAs. So the revenue is in the books. Going forward, once the JV is incorporated, this will be handled by the JV company as a 50-50 joint venture.
Uday Pai
Okay, sir, thank you. That helps.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Lalit from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead, sir.
Lalit
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good morning. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, just on this non-MF business like within CAMSPay and CAMS KRA, could you give us the unit economics of this business like on a how — at a per transaction level, what kind of yields are we making in this segment?
Anuj Kumar
So your question was on CAMS KRA and –?
Lalit
CAMSPay.
Anuj Kumar
CAMSPay, okay. So, well there is no uniform basis for CAMSPay and I can’t obviously give you exact numbers, but I can tell you how this works. From a CAMSPay perspective, you have ACH mode of transaction where we charge for a mandate registration and then we charge for a per transaction processing, out of which we have to pay some money to the sponsor bank for us to access the NPCI backbone. So that’s how it works. On per transaction basis and a mandate registration, the mandate registration could be INR5, INR4, INR6 depending on whatever the commercial arrangement we have. And per transaction basis could be INR3, INR2, INR5 depending on whatever the volumes and the arrangement we have, right. That is from a CAMS ACH perspective. We have UPI autopay, UPI autopay the commercial models are very different. Some have a transaction based, a few have a value based billing also. So very difficult to get into a per transaction mode. But broadly it is transaction-based billing and a mandate registration that happens. So the base is the same. Only thing is there is a variation on the value-based billing for some of the UPI customer, UPI autopay customers. So that’s the — how the unit economics works, largely platform-based where we have to pay some charge to the bank for processing the transaction and then we get paid for putting through every — put one of these transactions, doing the reconciliation and creating the amounts from a CAMSPay perspective.
CAMS KRA, there are three broad pieces of the revenue model. Number one is, when you get an upload, which is basically a new person comes and uses either e-authentication or in a physical form gets his KRA or KYC done and the PAN actually — so the identifier resides in the CAMS KRA, it’s called an upload, we get paid for the upload by the AMC. And then there is this download which is that if this person goes to another, say, a mutual fund and then he wants to open a polio, based on that download that happen — he doesn’t have to do the KYC again. So that is called a download revenue. And third is interoperability which is he goes — comes through another KRA into CAMS KRA and accesses the KRA information, then you get interoperability charge. So there are three basic unit economics. Again a platform based business. Once we kind of put it into our platform, every time that PAN is withdrawn or downloaded for some other investment, we get paid by the asset manager. So that’s how the model works.
Lalit
Sure, sir. And so, sir, similar to like when — what you mentioned for CAMSPay like about 55% to 60% comes from the mutual fund business, now in the KYC business, as we understand that we are also adding non — new financial institutions like we are significantly expanding into the non-MF business as well over there. So could you give us some color like how — what is the revenue coming from the non-MF side of it?
Anuj Kumar
Yeah. I think what used to be close to zero has now reached around 20 percentage. So 80% will be MF-based customer and 20% will be non-asset management companies. And that’s on an increasing trend.
Lalit
Sure. And, sir, like this old segment, the KRA business has been expanding very — has shown some strong growth over the last 18 months to 24 months and now we are hearing that — from our peers that they are also trying to enter into this space. So any comments around that thing, like how should we see the overall industry going here from here on?
Anuj Kumar
All I can say is that we are happy to inspire others. So the rest of course is a good business to do. So I will not specifically comment on how they are thinking about it, but, yeah, the industry is on an expansion track and onboarding authentication will always have a strong role to play in regulated markets. Do also remember that while we do the KRA business inside CAMS KRA, there is a large piece of the front end which is the KYC part, video KYC which we do for some of the largest banks in the country including Central Bank, Bank of Baroda, Canara and RBI is sitting inside Think. So it’s a large portfolio for us and I’m sure others are noticing what we are doing and perhaps thinking of getting it.
Lalit
Sure, sir. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhijeet from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead, sir.
Abhijeet
Hi, good morning. I have one question on costs. How do we think about the flexibility in costs, especially as we get into more uncertain growth environment? I’m sure some of it is linked to how the business grows, but some of might be relatively more sticky commitments going into next 12 months. So some guidance there will be very helpful.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So Abhijeet, again this is — I think we are conscious of the fact that there has to be some flexibility in the cost, but there are limitations to the model. So what we always do is we don’t obviously go overboard in terms of recruiting for in terms of recruitment cost or hiring more people. For that we rely on automation. As you know that some amount of variability is there when we go to the cloud cost also for the new businesses. See, the flexibility in cost exists because on two counts. One is obviously the flexible cost is the data entry and the people who key in the data which is variable depending on the number of transactions that we get with a lag there is some automization [Phonetic] possible and we have done it in the past too. Like we even in the peak of COVID our margins never dropped below 30% when everybody was floundering to keep their head above water rate, right? Even in that situation our margins never went below 30%, right? I’m saying that is the extreme kind of scenario that you’re thinking of.
So with the lag, we have some flexibility on some part of the variable cost. As I said that almost 8% of my cost is variable currently and we have some flexibility on most of those components. Barring that, I don’t think that we are overspending. So what we are trying is to continue to focus on automation, continue to focus on enhancing the platform capabilities to handle — for example, the SIP transaction that you’re seeing, it’s not actually spent for every trigger that we do, right? It’s an automatic process, almost like end-to-end automation is definitely a process which is where you put through all the crores of transactions without incurring additional cost. So individual parts of businesses are continuing to be automated. We are conscious of the fact that, at some point of time cost optimization will be extremely — it’ll be very important to maintain the margins and we have never lost sight of that fact. So we continue to have some 8% variable cost which we can optimize, continue to automate in terms of platform. And we are sure that when it comes to it, we’ll be able to be flexible enough to retain the margin targets.
Abhijeet
And what would be the margin range you would want to maintain?
Ram Charan Sesharaman
So we don’t want to be very aggressive on margin targets. We’ve never been and you know that. So we have kind of come to around 46.9% and we will have to see it, obviously determined by how much assets grow in the future. But if current trend, I would assume that to get to end of year, get to more than 47%, 47.5% is something that is well within reach. To go beyond 48% I think will be difficult given the present pressures of other items like investment and cost and all those stuff. But if things do continue, getting to less than 48% margin is something that is doable within this year, definitely 47.5% is doable in our mind.
Abhijeet
Thanks, Ram. This is very helpful.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devesh from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead, sir.
Devesh
Good morning, everyone, and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, just one question. If you see the yield decline on a sequential basis, it has been much lesser in our core business compared to the AUM growth. Now obviously there has been improvement in the AUM mix and that is leading to this cushion in the yield fall. A couple of things that I wanted to understand. One, as the AUM grows, does the decline in the yield is linear or for the AMCs which have crossed certain threshold, the decline in the yield would be lower, if that’s the case. And secondly, what should be the basically rule of thumb that we should follow in terms of going ahead if there is a growth in the AUM? How much yield moderation should one build in, say, for FY ’26 or ’25? Yeah.
Anuj Kumar
So, Devesh, yes, I think this is an observation that I also made in the beginning saying that the yields have largely been stable and to be honest, this is not totally unexpected. I think when we went through this large yield reset in the last year, we continued to kind of have the stand that you will see this one off, drop off but over a period of one year they will stabilize. And last couple of quarters, we have seen this stable. As you — the thumb rules that we use is that the asset-to-asset fee growth is around 75% is what we say. It’s been around 83% this quarter. But I would continue to urge you to use the same thumb rule of 75%, right, because while we have completed the discussions and closed deals with a lot of the major funds, this is an ongoing exercise, right? We will have a couple coming up within the next year and a couple after that. So I would continue to say the thumb rule of 75% growth should hold good and there will be quarters where we will do much better and there will be probably a few quarters where we won’t. But on average this thumb rule should hold good.
You could actually expect positive surprises in a few quarters, but I think that’s something that we’ll have to live with. Apart from that, we don’t see any major developments on yield. As we grow, I don’t think the relationship is going to change drastically because, yes, a lot of the AMCs have reached the highest slab in terms of when the rates will go down. For example, it could be INR1 lakh crore or — equity which means a lot of AMCs could have reached that stage of INR50,000 crores. So going forward we have reached a stage where additional slabs are not there, but that doesn’t preclude them from including it in the future, too. So I don’t want to change the assumptions or the basis in which you are estimating. I think that will remain true for the next few quarters also, and the next year also for that matter.
Devesh
And sir, at the asset level, if you can give us some sense on a blended, we are not able to get the right picture of the decline in the yield, but if you talk about pure equity, what was the decline in the yield in this quarter?
Anuj Kumar
So I don’t know where I should — okay, it’s broadly in line. So on a quarter-on-quarter basis, the equity yield hovered around 3.4 percentage to 3.5 percentage. And the overall decline and equity decline was almost broadly on the same lines.
Devesh
Understood, sir. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Citigroup. Please go ahead, sir.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Hi, good morning, sir. Just a few questions from my side. First, in the CAMSPay business, you mentioned that today almost around 55% to 60% is from the MF side and rest from non-MF. So if you can give a similar number for, let’s say, the first half of last fiscal, so that will be great. Second, on the alternates business, it seems that there has been some yield pickup over the last maybe three or four quarters including this present quarter, a similar trend probably what we are seeing in case of some of your competitors also. So wanted to get some sense of, is it like more value-added services being provided to the alternates or more schemes coming in from these alternates or new client additions? If you can give some color on that. And lastly, on the KRA business, again you mentioned that non-MF is now 20% from almost zero percent few quarters back. So would it be a fair assumption that the MF piece of the KRA business is growing at 30% to 40%?
Anuj Kumar
Sure. So let me take the second part of your question first. On AIF, you’re right that it’s become a lot more competitive. There was a time six or seven years back when CAMS was the only port of call when new people launched an AIF. For PMS, it then became a little more competitive from a domestic perspective. Today you have overseas providers selling in the same market. And whenever an industry becomes competitive, you will see a bit of price down. You see it everywhere whichever broad market you go to. So this is no different. How are we mitigating it? Of course, things like GIFT City are a natural mitigant where unit economics will be better and then things like WealthServ, which is digital onboarding is essentially built like it’s a digital stack which means that you don’t deploy tons of labor, processing force, or accountants or any of those people to do the work. That work is done by the platform. So like we said, we were the first to enter that. We scaled it significantly. Of course, a lot of money raise still happens in the physical format, but we are very confident that this — with this 175 plus set of buyers, the trend will accentuate and a lot of money raising will start happening digitally. So those kind of mitigants in terms of selling a richer digital stack, charging for APIs, building out websites, wealth platforms, all of that is an antidote to doing a business where there is some amount of labor and especially for accounting practices, etc. So that’s the standard way of doing it.
You had asked a question on the revenue mix of CAMSPay a year back. I would still think of the business as about 55% to 60% skewed in favor of MF. I don’t think a large change has happened in the recent year. Of course the SIP momentum has gone up which is showing up in the overall volumes. But like I said, we have now begun selling to education and we will deepen that segment in the coming year. So you will see this number to be stable around that part.
You had a question on KRA whether KRA’s MF business is growing 30% to 40%. I think, yes, it’s fair to assume it’s growing 30% to 40%. One good surrogate metric you can catch on to is the 31% MF new PAN that we spoke about because that’s a chargeable PAN when it comes in the first time and of course everything else is when that PAN stays and it is downloaded multiple times by mutual funds. So, yeah, think of it as about 30% to 35% growth in that base too.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Sir, just a small follow-up on the PA business. So in a way, the PA business which was, let’s say, growing at somewhere around 20ish, sort of high 20s sort of a number in 3Q, 4Q of last year or maybe 2Q also, that has scaled up to like 50, 60 plus percentage YoY. And you say that the mix has broadly remained stable between MF and non-MF. So would it be fair to assume that this is like more non-MF clients coming in and whatever organic growth you’re seeing on the NFC side, as in the natural client additions you’re seeing or volume additions?
Anuj Kumar
Yeah. You can think of that being true. As we go deeper into NBFCs, housing finance and insurance, that is one of the trends which will continue to play out.
Dipanjan Ghosh
Got it. Thank you sir and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aman Soni from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP. Please go ahead, sir.
Aman Soni
Hello. Am I audible?
Anuj Kumar
Yes, you are.
Aman Soni
Good afternoon, sir. Congrats for a good set of numbers. Most of my questions are already answered. But one question like I was checking on your quarterly numbers two years back, so we were in the range of INR200 crore to INR250 crore kind of numbers. But we see last four quarters we are consistently delivering decent numbers and currently quarterly run rate is approximately INR350 crore. So from here on, how do you look — how this trend is going to be for the next, say, two to three years?
Anuj Kumar
So think of it this way, that a large part of our fortunes are still linked to the cycle in the capital markets. There is no denying that because the MF market drives the core business, the MF and the demat broking market drives the KRA business. The MF market drives about 55% of the payments business. There is significant diversification too, but we will be married to this. A lot of this therefore is about what view you take on the domestic capital markets. If domestic capital markets have similar growth, then you will see the revenue up the way you have seen it in recent years. Of course there will be some periods of ups and downs in terms of like someone else said, growth cycles will never be certain and will never be in the high 20s and 30s. So keep that in mind. But I mean, one thing I would certainly leave with you that a lot of revenue up has been contributed by MF. But the non-MF part has started kicking only in the last two years. Only started kicking in the last two years. In the last eight quarters, you’ve seen stratospheric growth from KRA and payments. AIF has done a good job in continuing to grow over 20%. We are waiting for one of our other markets for insurance to become a sensible contributor to revenue and that will happen. Like I always said, we are taking a bit of that, that will happen. I think the diversified part is growing. The non-MF part has delivered quite well. So our ability to define revenue scale is better than what it used to be three years back. That’s what I would say.
Aman Soni
Understood. That’s it from my side, sir. All the best for the future.
Anuj Kumar
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dev Shah from Haitong Securities. Please go ahead, sir.
Dev Shah
Hi sir. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Just a couple of questions from my side. The first is a data-keeping question. Can you give us the SIP book value that you used to provide earlier as well as the SIP transactions processed and the live investor folios that used to give earlier? Second is, do we still stand by the guidance of the non-MF proportion reaching almost 20 odd percent by FY27? Do we see some kind of variations in that since the MF portion has grown so strongly? And lastly, could you throw some light on the Fintuple [Indecipherable] NPS venture and what’s happening on that front? Yeah, that’s it from my end. Thanks.
Anuj Kumar
No, sure. So your question was how do we continue growing in the future? Sorry, let me take the second part first. Your first was about the data. We’ll just see if we can give you some data. On the second part, you had said about MF and non-MF whether we are holding on to 20% guidance. We are certainly holding on to the 20% guidance. Just think of it this way, that traditionally the MF market has grown, our own revenue base would have grown early to mid-teens. That has traditionally been true. And our call was that we will make the non-MF part grow in excess of 20%. So if you take those two parts in isolation, what you will see is that the non-MF part has grown beyond 20%. It’s now been growing 30%, and for the ensuing four to six quarters, although we don’t want to make any specific forward-looking statements, we are confident of mid-to-high 20s growth continue to happen in non-MF. So we are delivering the core metric. What I control is the revenue growth in non-MF which we are saying we will continue growing at mid-to-high 20s, in a lucky quarter like we’ve had in the last two or three, we will grow upwards of 30%.
Now MF is a very large base over — MF revenue to continue hurtling forward at 30% plus is perhaps a quarter of two phenomenon. It’s unlikely to be a two year phenomenon. We expect that at some time the MF revenues will go back to the teens and will not stay at the 30% plus that we are at. So we are holding on to a forecast that we will continue driving diversification through this skewed growth rates and investments and drive the non-MF contribution, revenue contribution to 20% on the first part. On the first part, are we able to give any number?
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Yeah. So the live investor folios as of end was around INR8.6 crores and the unique investor service was INR3.7 crores. This is again — investor folios is a growth of 31% year-on-year as of 30th of September and the SIP transactions actually processed is around INR17.8 crores. Systemic — not only SIP, systemic transactions processed is INR17.8 crores. Again that’s up around 30% year-on-year. Is that clear?
Anuj Kumar
Were you able to hear that?
Dev Shah
Yeah, that’s helpful. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Santosh [Phonetic] from SKA HUF [Phonetic] Thanks — please go ahead, sir.
Santosh
Hello, sir. Congratulations for a good set of numbers. My question was about the previous participant when he asked about Fintuple and Nivruti [Phonetic] NPS, so if you can just explain that what does Fintuple do? Is it into mutual fund business? [Speech Overlap]
Anuj Kumar
We have stated in the past, it is in the business of building large bespoke platforms for large banks. That is what they’ve done in the past. When you see CAMS’ WealthServ product, the WealthServ product is sold to PMS’ and AIF so that they can automate and digitize the process of onboarding individual customers to the PMS. What Fintuple sells is to large banks. Let’s say, I say it’s a bank, they built a large platform which is used by the bank to have their PMS’, the ones for whom the bank is doing custody for them to onboard customers to the same platform. So that’s the core product. It’s live with one bank, getting built with another large bank. Nivruti is a diversification where the same capability of being able to onboard a customer is then sold to a PoP, a point of PoP for pension where they are able to integrate with all the three CRAs and are able to onboard digitally new customers coming in to buy pension.
Santosh
Okay, great. Sir, can we think of this as a software product suite company specifically for banks and AIFs?
Anuj Kumar
No. So it is a platform product. It would be — I mean, it can be charged in different ways basis assets, basis the number of customers who come in or basis a license fee so the charging can be different, but it is obviously a platform or a software product.
Santosh
Okay, great. And what is the market share we may be holding here, sir or we [Speech Overlap]
Anuj Kumar
Product is getting launched. We have still not reported the first win. The product is getting launched.
Santosh
Okay. But we are reporting in the PowerPoint presentation that 57 new mandates we got in quarter two FY ’25. So it’s like work order and there’s no revenue yet.
Anuj Kumar
The 57 that you are reading are total wins in AIF. These are a collectivity of core AIF and PMS RTA servicing win, fund accounting win, WealthServ platform win, WealthTrak Analytics wins and GIFT City wins. So it’s a sigma of those. Right now Nivruti doesn’t have a live client. We are in the process of closing the first deal.
Santosh
Okay. Understood, sir. Thank you so much. And my second question is about, are we subject to any compliance audit by regulator? And if so, then by what date or year this has been done?
Anuj Kumar
So you will see that all of CAMS’ businesses are regulated small parts may not be, so Think Analytics may not be directly regulated. Almost every part is regulated. SEBI regulates and licenses the MF RTA and the KRA businesses. RBI governs and licenses the Account Aggregator and the Payment Aggregator. PF RTA licenses and governs the CRA NPS business and IRDAI licenses and governs the CAMS Rep business.
I don’t know how to answer the second part of your question, because the regulatory obligations, reporting obligations are very vast. It is not that it is a once in a year audit where we get the audit done, we sign off and then all of us go home. So think of it as a — in your portfolio of companies and whatever you see, think of how many companies you can count which have all the four regulators governing them and which have six instances of these four regulators, I’m sure you won’t even find a handful. The regulatory scrutiny and the controls posture is extremely intense. It is not just at a bare regulation level. It also exists at the level of how we manage cybersecurity, how we manage BCP, how we manage employee screening. It’s a cumulative of all of those.
Santosh
Truly, sir. Yeah, I understand that. So there’s no like closure of audit for a particular year, let’s say, till FY ’24. It’s been closed. Nothing like that, is it?
Anuj Kumar
Yeah, just think of it that, yeah, last year would have been closed by every regulator.
Santosh
Okay. Thank you so much and wish you all good luck and happy Diwali.
Anuj Kumar
Thanks and same to you.
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ram Charan, sir, CFO for closing remarks.
Ram Charan Sesharaman
Yeah, thank you.