CE Info Systems Ltd (NSE: MAPMYINDIA) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Jan. 29, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Rakesh Kumar Verma — Co-Founder, Chairman and Managing Director
Sapna Ahuja — Chief Operating Officer
Analysts:
Shobit Singhal — Analyst
Chandramouli Muthiah — Analyst
Anmol Garg — Analyst
Abhishek Kumar — Analyst
Unidentified Participant
Gautam Rathi — Analyst
Ridhima Goyal — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the MapmyIndia Q3 FY25 earnings conference call hosted by Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star and zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Shobit Singhal from Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers Limited. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Shobit Singhal — Analyst
Thank you. Good morning everyone. On behalf of Anand Rathi Institutional Equities, we welcome you all to Q3 FY25 conference call of MapmyIndia.
We have with us today Mr. Rakesh Verma, co founder and chairman of the company, Ms. Sapna Hooja who is a CEO, Mr. Anujain, CFO and Mr. Sourabh Somani, company Secretary and Compliance officer.
I will now hand over the call to Mr. Rakesh Verma sir for his opening remarks. Post that we will open the floor for Q and A session. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Rakesh Kumar Verma — Co-Founder, Chairman and Managing Director
Good morning everybody and thank you Shobit for the quick introduction about the team that is here today to respond to any questions that will follow my talk. Let me start saying that overall we are happy with the results of the Q3 FY25. So in Q3 FY25 we successfully operationalized the joint venture with Hyundai Autoever in Indonesia, marking an important step in expanding our global footprint. As part of our long term strategy, both the Mapples app and Mapples brand will continue to be integral part of the organization. On the financial front, our revenue for Q3 FY25 reached 115 crore. Showing a 25% year on year growth over the first nine months of Q3 FY25 our revenue grew to 320 crores by 17% up from 273 crore during the same period last year. In terms of profitability, Our EBITDA for Q3 FY25 was 42 crores yielding a margin of 36% compared to 36 crore in Q3 FY24 of 39%. For the first nine months of FY25 our EBITDA stood at 122 crore with a margin of 38% as compared to 114 crore and a 42% margin recorded in the same period last year.
We will continue to prioritize the mapels apply as a key strategic asset while we will calibrate the costs associated from Q4 onwards. Our profit after taxes backed for the first nine months of FY25 was 99 crore up from 96 crore in nine months of FY24. In Q3 FY25 consumer tech and enterprise business C and E is what we call revenue surged by 39% to 65 crores year on year while automotive and mobility tech A and M revenue had a steady growth of 9% to 49 crores year on year much better than than the auto industry growth itself. In the first nine months of FY25 our AM revenue grew by 16% year on year and number of licenses grew by 23%.
Our C&E revenue saw a 19% increase in the same period. Our map led business delivered a very strong 33% growth in 287 crores in Q3 FY25 year on year while the IoT led business had a growth of 4% year on year during the quarter due to delays in some anticipated businesses. However, subscription services grew 31% year on year for the quarter. Our continued focus to build IoT business with higher margin subscription revenue has resulted in the IoT led EBITDA margin to grow from 8% in 9 months FY24 to 12%.
In nine months of FY25. Our efforts in the previous quarters culminated in securing a major deal with one of the largest global social media network across their app platforms in India as well as significant wins in the Burjwaning Quick Commerce space BFSI vertical which had a strong positive impact on our C and E business. We also made significant strides in customer acquisition and deepened relationships with existing clients through upselling and cross selling initiatives. This includes notable GO lives and project wins across the various sectors such as automotive, fleet management, tech startups, traditional corporations, government and defense.
With this I would like to end my part of the initial commentary and the team is here, including me, to answer any questions that the participants have. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the Touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Shobit Singhal from Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. Please go ahead.
Shobit Singhal
Thank you sir. I have two questions sir. First on the CME segment. So CME Revenue Growth Trajectory sustainable. I mean as it appears that it was a one time project revenue which got booked in this quarter which explained the steep rise in outsourcing expenses. So can you elaborate more about what we did in this project and is the order related to this project exhausted or more to come in Q4? Thank you.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
I didn’t understand your question well Shobit. Did you mean mean that our growth in CND this quarter is a one time thing?
Shobit Singhal
No, no. I’m saying that so the the this growth which we got. So there was a. I think there was a one government project as well which we booked in this quarter and also there was a steep rise in our outsourcing expense which you have mentioned in your presentation as well.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
I think there are two different things. Outsourcing is a different is a question I can address because that’s the only item that probably in the presentation you will see quite a big jump in our expenses and that relates to the corporation. Corresponding government projects which is part of the revenue. So those outsourcing expenses. Why we do is when certain projects have to be scaled up very quickly and within a very quick period of time, we do have to go outside and use outside resources. And also it includes certain software costs, what we call it, which becomes part of it. So altogether it is very much in line with the revenue that we generated during the quarter.
Shobit Singhal
And the second question is on the G trophy. So last quarter you said that G trophy funding issue was resolved. But if you see hardware sales did not pick up this quarter as well. So any specific reason or have we rationalized our authorized your dealer network?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Okay, I don’t use the name gtropi. I say our IoT led business. Yes, in Q1 there were due to certain constraints within G2P there was a problem and now in Q3 we have spent. I just mentioned it that the certain IoT led business we were expecting from the customers which has been delayed and hence the impact of it. But it will happen in the next financial year. But at the same time, if you see the good part of the IoT led business, subscription revenue has increased dramatically.
Shobit Singhal
Right. And sir, last question is at the start of our this financial year, so we have given a guidance that for the full year we will be able to achieve around 25% kind of growth. But given that in nine months we did only 17% type of growth. So our ask for fourth quarter is around close to 45%. Sorry, are you still sticking to our guidance?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Yeah, we still believe strongly already one month of the Q4 is over. So we still believe strongly that we will be able to attain the 25% growth for the whole year.
Shobit Singhal
Okay, great. Sir. Yeah, thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chandramouli Muthiah from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Chandramouli Muthiah
Hi, good morning and thank you for taking my questions. My first question is just if you’re able to provide a little bit of color on some of the deal wins that you’ve announced this quarter quarter and what that does to your order backlogs. I think the last update we had on the order backlog was towards the end of previous fiscal year roughly 1370 crores of open orders. Just want to understand what the quantum of recent deal wins has been, what the nature of those deal wins has been and where our existing order backlog looks like in terms of visibility going forward.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Well, the exact number of the order backlogs or what we call open order book, we’ll disclose it as part of the 31st of March and that’s the practice we have been following all through. But from the other question that you asked, we have been winning and new projects winning. I think we have described in the investor presentation. If you look at the C and E, there is almost many verticals of C and E we have been able to win including the global contracts. So the names, I wish I could have named them but unfortunately because of certain NDAs we are not able to mention without their approval and hence I am keeping quiet about it. But anybody can make their own guess, order backlog or open order how it will look like at the end of the year. Definitely better than last year. That’s the best answer I can give you. We are on a very strong trajectory and we believe that there is a lot to be done by us in execution and the market is there. But of course we have to put our act together honestly.
Chandramouli Muthiah
Got it, got it. That’s helpful. Color, second question is just around seasonality. Historically we’ve seen second half and last quarter seasonality pick up in terms of mapma India’s business and we had a little bit of unfavorable lumpiness in the first half of the year in terms of contracts closing and so on. So as you look towards the end of the fiscal, could you just share some of the drivers that are giving you the confidence that you can meet your 25% sort of implied growth target. And I think as the previous participant asked, the meaningful pickup in growth expected in the fourth quarter.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Okay, so to help you get some color on the Q4 confidence, about 25%, let me say that I did mention about it even in the last Q2 earnings call that there are certain contrasts which will get completed, not completed, I mean which will generate US revenue in Q4 and they exist, they are a long term contract and hence we are not worried about it. And these contracts are one side, they are from cne, either from the corporate world or the international companies or the government side. Even in the automotive. I must give you all a general color that the Q3 of any financial year, the automotive is slow. And those who do the automotive OEM analysis will find that because ours is based on manufacturing of the vehicles, not sale of the vehicles, October, November, December, particularly November, December, the vehicle production gets slowed down because of the new year model. And hence you will find the A and M not doing that good in Q3, the growth. But still we have done 9% growth. I think sometimes 9%. It’s 9%. And you see the number of licenses I also talked about have increased 23% on a nine month basis. That shows that our penetration either within the same automotive OEM or by winning new businesses, particularly in the EV space is also growing.
Chandramouli Muthiah
Got it. That’s helpful. And my last question is just around your earlier remarks around the temporary increase in technical outsourcing costs. Is that cost that you’re incurring ahead of the curve for potential pickup in revenue you expect in certain types of business or contracts?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
No, it is related to the revenue. The way the accounting standards do is it relates to the revenue. Expenses have to be tied to the revenue. If I’m expensing it, I better have the revenue for that.
Chandramouli Muthiah
Got it. So it’s unlikely that this elevated level of technical outsourcing cost recurs in the near term. Is that the way to think about it?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
No, the way to look at it is what kind of project this technical outsourcing? Mostly it goes for the government projects. Let me be straight on that. And in that if the revenue is high in the government projects in a particular quarter, let’s say it was in part of it was in Q3 also. But in Q4 if it is high, the technical expenses outsourced will be also higher.
Chandramouli Muthiah
Got it. That’s helpful. Thank you very much and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. Please go ahead.
Anmol Garg
Thanks for the opportunity. I had a couple of questions. Firstly, wanted to understand that how are we looking towards the government business? So are we biding on government led GIS projects and also wanted to understand how are the margins in these kind of projects.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Okay. Government projects are no longer for. We no longer believe that it’s. No, no. If you had asked me three years back, we would like. We always used to shy away but as we are watching that lot of government schemes are coming and in this area of what we call GIS or geospatial, whichever terminology, we would not like to skip them. We would like to grab those opportunities because there are some added advantages. Also the only issue we are keeping in mind, and we’ll continue to keep that in mind is pick up only those government projects where we know that we will get paid. So if you look at even now the receivables in government, overall receivables is less than 100 days. If you have seen our financial statement.
Anmol Garg
Overall, okay, it’s fine.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
So overall it has. It is less than 100 days receivables. Now it is a mixture of government receivables versus other. But the beauty is we are not having a bad debt or our provision for bad debt is not increasing. So we are happy to do that government projects and we are doing it. The last part of your question is margin. Definitely in the government work the margin is not high like what you see in typical corporate and automotive. So it does draw down the overall margin of the company. But we at the board level also we are very clear that we must undertake them for hundreds of good reasons.
Anmol Garg
Right sir, Understood. So just a follow up on that. So given that we are taking now more government projects, should we assume that our more sustainable margin range would be around 35%, 36% going ahead?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
35%, 36%, what margin you are talking about gross margin or you’re talking about net profit?
Anmol Garg
EBITDA margin.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Huh? EBITDA margin. EBITDA mine is the net margin only, right? If. If 30. I am not aware which government projects for which company provides 35 36% EBITDA margin. I’m not. If you can help me and tell me, I would love to know that.
Anmol Garg
I’m talking about the full company’s margin. Just wanted to understand that…
Rakesh Kumar Verma
For nine months we are at 38%. Right. And I can tell you that by the year end we might have 20% of our revenue coming from the government projects. I’m just giving you a kind of a ballpark number. And if we are at 38%, well I can’t predict but the year is almost ending so we should be around that. Only somewhere around that.
Anmol Garg
Understood? Understood. Secondly, sir wanted to understand our confidence on next year’s growth trajectory. Now do we have enough order book and enough confidence that we will go back to the growth trajectory like we have in the last two years?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Well, if we maintain a 25% growth rate you can do, you can use your calculator and you will see that we’ll attain 1000 crores in FY28.
Anmol Garg
Right. So should we assume trajectory of around 25% growth rate going ahead?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Yeah, we are committed to that and we our plans are all based on that. And that’s why I said in the beginning that good execution and the team is very strong. So we don’t see any issue.
Anmol Garg
Understood.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
As a matter of fact, just to give some color, yesterday in the board meeting all the four business has presented their case. They explained everything to the board members and they were very happy that the team is fully competent, qualified experience to carry on this target of thousand crores for FY28.
Anmol Garg
Understood. And sir, one last one from my end. If I Look at our B2C spend this quarter that you have indicated that you spend around 5 crores in this quarter for B2C. Now going ahead, how should we see these spends? Would it be range bound or would it increase as we focus on the Mapples application?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Okay, let’s separate put the correct color on this B2C. As far as the Mappels app is considered, I don’t think we ever have looked at it as a B2C business because the Mappers app is the driver. The lot of R and D lot of innovation is shown through Mapples app. Take the example of the junction view which we did. That was an innovation within the company which was depicted through Mapple’s app. But Mapple’s app doesn’t give.
Revenue but the use of those technologies innovations lead to creating revenue in the B2B Mapus app. I don’t look at so much as a B2C business. I mean I think at least I’m able to make that clear today. It is an integral part of supporting our B2B and B2B2C business. What you are talking about B2C business, that’s what we have. We have from Q4 starting from Q4 but the impact when expenses could not be saved in Q4. But going right now onward from Q4 now we are calibrating that and saying that we will not spend on creating a business out of MapWorks app at this point of time but certain in future the opportunity comes, we look at it.
Anmol Garg
Understood? Understood. Are we giving any size of the deal that we have signed with the social media app in this quarter?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
I wish I didn’t have the NDA and I could have talked about it. So I hope you will understand.
Anmol Garg
Sure, sir, sure. Thank you so much sir for answering my question.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, you may press star and 1. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial Limited. Please go ahead.
Abhishek Kumar
Yeah, hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. First question is on Hyundai, Kia. Both you know, the India deal as well as the Indonesia jv, you know, last quarter. We understand because of lower production, it is not reflecting but how has that deal progressed? Have we, you know now increased the number of models where you know, our software is going in and how should we look at it in terms of achieving its, you know, peak quarterly run rate going forward and also any color on how, you know, what are the progress on the jv? When can we expect revenues or you know, some profit coming from the JV.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
From my our side also to give you more color, let Sapna say a few things and then I’ll add on to it.
Sapna Ahuja
Yeah, I’ll address the question specific to Hyundai and Kia vices. Yes, from this quarter onwards all models of Hyundai and Kia will be having…
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Or are having.
Sapna Ahuja
Yeah, they’re already announcing Q4 completely 100% will be there. Q3 partially. Yeah. Q4 will 100% of these models will start having map my India maps built in as regards to the Hyundai and Kia vehicles in Southeast Asia. Market there, you know, there is still some time. We are working towards that. The initial part of readiness of the content happens and now we are, you know, productizing it to make sure that you know, it soon, very soon starts generating revenue. And we see that happening maybe towards the next financial year.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Okay, let me add something more. The JV in this quarter Q4 the JV is getting, I mean JV was operationalized in terms of its legalities and all that only end of last year. So they, they had only 10, 15 days even to report anything about it. So Q4 they are going to put the, put things in place, make sure that the eight or ten countries maps are all in place and hopefully the revenue one that will go to JV only for what they license to Kundai Kea for the Southeast Asian countries. But the other opportunity that we are getting is because of those maps and our software. Interesting thing I hope you can understand. Our software will go to Hyundai’s competition, non Hyundai, Kia cars because they will not take the software of Hyundai and that will start generating US revenue. But again we hope, we are hoping that either from Q1 or Q2 of Next Financial year we will be able to get that. Did I answer your question?
Abhishek Kumar
Yes, that’s very detailed and clear. One quick follow up there. Just in terms of size of the market, you know our understanding is that you know the volumes in Southeast Asia are similar to Indian market but the realizations are 2, 3x of what we get in India. Is that true? And does that mean that the TAM that we are looking at Potential Tam is 3x of India’s automotive market.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
It will take some time. Abhishek see joint ventures formed. They will start putting pieces together. And you know in automotive always there is a one year lag at least from the time let’s say example one Chinese company like byd, just as example, if they say that okay, they will go ahead with our Solution with the JV, our software, JV’s map data. It will take them at least a year to put it, officialize it, put it in the vehicle. So expect. And that is the beauty of the automotive oem. Once you get in and it gets started then you are there for almost like a five year journey. So don’t expect any magic numbers. But the more we should look at it how fast we are able to win during the FY26 period because of the formation of the JV.
Sapna Ahuja
Certainly time is quite big.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Time is like India size.
Abhishek Kumar
Yeah. Okay. My question was more around tam, not our revenue but point taken. Next question is on some of the wins that we have had in Quick commerce, et cetera. That’s the space that I assume even Google Maps target very aggressively and you know they have, they cut their prices also a couple of quarters back. So you know, good to hear that we have been winning in E commerce and new age digital. What is in your view leading us despite you know, competition being aggressive in pricing to win these and does that in your mind validates the product market fit that we have and kind of addresses. I mean anything you can give in terms of why we won over competition, you know, in some of those deals. Thank you.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
You know, there are few small things, a few important things and they matter the quality of our product, which means the map data underlying the APIs or SDKs that we give it to them and when that is better than the competition. These quick commerce and all these quick commerce is particularly very hyper local and that level of detailed maps is what is helping us to win also.
Sapna Ahuja
One is quality of product, the other also is quality of service. I mean we being very agile, being very flexible to support them with the integrations with whatever desires they have in terms of technical features because we have control over the complete data in the back end. A lot of new innovations, features that they want, they are able to get it implemented through our product and our services that we provide along with that. That’s where they find it more comfortable to work with us.
Abhishek Kumar
Sure. One, one quick follow up on this just in terms of you know, order to revenue conversion here because these are APIs and volume driven. Does it mean that, you know, the order to revenue consumption is much faster compared to any other typical B2B or B2G space and therefore the revenue growth here or ramp up could be faster.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Yeah. Here in these cases the orders are typically more in terms of what you consume is the order for that month and that’s the revenue. It’s not like 400 crores of order contract to be consumed over five years of. You are right. There’s a. It’s immediate. It is a contract with them that they will work with us for the next X number of years. But we don’t estimate here because it is not known how much consumption will happen.
Abhishek Kumar
Understood. Great. Thank you so much and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dashti Patel from Avendus Capital. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello sir. Good morning. I had a couple of questions. So the first one being what is the expected revenue contribution from our drone services towards achieving our thousand crore revenue target for FY28?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
I think I would rather like to skip this question at this point of time because we will have our business planning session end of March and we’ll work it out and maybe next time we’ll be able to tell you that.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Sure, sir. So my next question would be what factors have contributed to the decline in our device sales within our IoT LED segment this quarter and was this decline an intentional strategic decision?
Sapna Ahuja
Sorry, can you repeat that question once again? I’m not very clear.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, so I meant to ask what factors have contributed to our decline in the device sales within our IoT LED segment this quarter and was this decline an intentional strategic decision?
Sapna Ahuja
Yeah, I think we have mentioned this in the presentation as well that there has been delay in certain business that we were expecting to happen in the last. In this large ones and those were the large contracts that would have generated that revenue. Since that did not happen, you see that decline. But it’s not that it is just postponed to the future quarter. It’s not that it’s not gonna happen.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so…
Sapna Ahuja
I’ve answered your query.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so any idea on when that would be happening? If it’s postponed for the future?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Well, let’s wait. I mean at least it will not happen in Q4. That. That I can say for sure.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir, sure. My last question being with our partnership with Qualcomm Tech, what revenue impact and growth opportunities do we anticipate in our automotive and mobility tech segment in the upcoming quarters?
Sapna Ahuja
Yeah, so initially we are looking at this engagement with Qualcomm, mostly from the perspective of automotive OEMs, not the aftermarket, but the inlineset kind of products and solutions, mostly around the connectivity front. This is, you know, given that it’s for automotive OEMs, the impact on revenue will be seen post one year at least here.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Let me add some more color to that. You know, in automotive OEM like we are tier one suppliers, partners in our own space of navigation, data and all that. Similarly, there are lots of global players who provide certain types of technologies to these OEMs as tier 1 also. Now this is a very nice marriage between one of those global players like Qualcomm and us. So that the technologies they have and what we do, the OEMs will find it much more comfortable to work together with us.
Unidentified Participant
Understood, sir. Thank you so much for taking my question.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nishant Chandra from Tamset. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi. Thanks for taking my question. I had a question on the IoT hardware line that has been the IoT hardware revenue profile. So just to understand the number of units sold, this would be something in the zip code of 170,000 units that we’ve done on a nine month basis, is that right?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Say that again, number of units sold…
Unidentified Participant
So for the nine month period we’ve got. The revenue number from IoT hardware is disclosed in the investor presentation. Right. Now when I compare this with last year in terms of number of units for full year, I think we did something like 300,000 units of hardware sale. I’m trying to understand what is 38.2 crores of revenue pertains to this should be something like 160, 170,000 units units of sale. Am I thinking about it the right way?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Yeah. I mean the nine months devices is around that number only.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, understand. And. And the full year number would again track something close to 300k. Or is there something that we need to change the expectation versus last year on the baseline of hardware revenue?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Well, I don’t know. Did we share that 300,000 numbers or you guys, you guys estimated on Your own?
Unidentified Participant
No, 300,000 is there in the annual report. I think you. I think the IoT DoubleClick had the number of devices, the revenue from hardware and revenues from software split in the annual report. So I was just trying to see what is the unit value and then I use the same unit value here to see what is implied number of units.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
I don’t think so. Okay, let me for this financial year. But you know when what the good thing that has happened is while couple of. I think two of the case, two of the businesses that we were expecting to start generating revenue from Q3 itself is that got. That is postponed put it that way for the next financial year we focused also on seeing how the subscription revenue increases. And that’s what you see that there’s a 30% plus growth in that which actually is ideally what. That’s what we would like to see. The hardware sales being down has affected on my revenue growth. Otherwise the revenue growth would have been higher instead of 35%.
Unidentified Participant
I mean I think the hardware revenue declining yoy per se is not a. So the way we look at it is that there are two parts. So here the. It’s not like you’re making profits from hardware sale which is materially large. The profits are anyway driven by services sale. But. And hardware effectively enables you to make that services sale. So that’s why I was just trying to see what is the universe of sales that we’re doing on the hardware side. And if that is so let’s say if it is not tracking, let’s say last year’s number, how should we. Why is that the case? Because your points of presence on the retail side should be similar to last year. So what is. How should we interpret that momentum on sale of hardware?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Retail side has not gone down some of the big project that we were expecting this quarter. Had that happened, your number of 300,000 or something like that would have happened. So. So that’s the reason. I mean we are just giving you the exact picture that happened. Okay. And during the whole year, whatever business we expect, because these are the businesses you work for a year or so such large projects, one or two slips can happen and it has happened and we are acknowledging it.
Unidentified Participant
Understand. And the last one is, if I were to look at the stock of devices which is giving you this subscription revenue on IoT sale, where would that be currently in terms of closing number? Because I think that number was close to half a million devices in end of 24. That should be something like 650,000 670,000 devices for nine months. 25 is again is my number broadly the right zip code.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
You are talking about the inventory or you know the number of.
Unidentified Participant
So if I look at the sale of subscription devices in IoT how many devices would be subscribed to your IoT services? This would — this should be somewhere around 600 to 700k units is what I thought. I just wanted to verify that number with you.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Your number is right.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, take care. Okay, cool. Got it.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Gautam Rathi from CWC. Please go ahead.
Gautam Rathi
Hi Mr. Verma. Thanks for taking my question. I had a couple of them. First on the Hyundai contract just needed some clarification. So this is a 400 crore contract for 5 years. But how should we think about the peak ramped revenue in this contract, right? Is it fair to say? Because even if I take average it’s an 80 crore. But is it fair to think that at a peak this could be like 120 crore kind of a revenue. And just to take a guess, today we would be not even say 10 to 15 crores in that contract. Is it fair to think it that way?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
See, when they have signed a contract for that much. Okay. And they have said that in five years time based on their projected sale of vehicles. Now they have not guaranteed every year or every month’s amount quantity. So if you can look at it many different ways, one is 400 divided by five gives you 80 crores. 80 crores divided by four quarters gives you how much? 20 crores. That’s one way. The other way is Hyundai is also expanding. Like in Q3, their sales was also down like nothing. I mean from Q1, normally Q1 and Q2 we have seen Automotive OEM. Their revenue going up. This is what we have observed. So you can track it very easily with Hyundai car sales. And as Sapna said that all the vehicles of Hyundai Kia which comes with navigate with navigation or connected vehicle, they will all have not no exceptions. They will all have map mine near maps. Okay. Understood. It might be starting from X number. It might become 2x maybe in 2 years, 3 years time frame. It’s possible.
Gautam Rathi
Understood. Other thing, on the Mumbai JV last time around you were saying that even in the JV the map making part, right? The development of maps would be outsourced to map my India. Right? So are we already seeing the cost coming for this in our business for which in future we would get the revenues or is it still too early?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
We clarify. One country they have outsourced to us. Okay. The other countries, it is better that the local players of those countries who are getting wiped out by the big giant. They. They have gotten a new life, okay. And they are being nurtured by the JV to make the maps good. How they mean how they are being nurtured by jv? Map Mind is providing them with certain tools and technologies. That’s one side of it. The other side is when they provide that data to the JV the JV gives it to Map Mindya to put it in the format so that that data can be sellable to or licensed to any other automotive customers including Hyundai Kia. If it is non Hyundai Kia, then it will get added to our software and we will have a further revenue opportunity one due to the software part and the second is when we process the data into a particular. When I say process the data productize it. We will also earn certain revenue. So this is the model on which we are operating. But as I said, start expecting it all these for revenue and gradually see how it builds up. Like if Southeast Asian market is as big as India market. India market we have been working for last 10 years and we have gone up similar not 10 years but similarly it will take ramp up of 2, 3 years. I suspect where the full advantage of the TAM that is available in Southeast Asian countries the JV will be able to achieve.
Gautam Rathi
Understood. That was really helpful. Just the last question, right? How should we in the government part of the business? Like if I take 9 months FY25 what would be the growth in that business vs visa vis same period last year.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Which business?
Gautam Rathi
Government business.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Government business. See, we were like a couple of percentage in government business all for many many years. Last two, three years we have started increasing. So last year I think if I remember correctly it was single digitized percentage of our total revenue from government was in the single digit. It was in the single digit. This year we are. I’m making a advance information that we might be definitely will be in double digit but less than 20%.
Gautam Rathi
Less than 15%. So which is more or less close…
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Only I’ll know the exact number. But I’ll give you a giving and some color to it.
Gautam Rathi
Mr. Verma. Again, if I understand it right, with your government business going up is it fair to assume that your margins overall blended margins could be lower because just in, in one of the earlier questions you mentioned that you know, your margin should be around 38% to 40%. 38%. Right. So is it fair to assume that as the share of government business goes up the…
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Let me answer this question. Very straightforward. Internally we are looking at the revenue growth first. That’s the first important thing we are focusing on. Second thing, we are focusing on our EBITDA growth. I’m not talking about the margin. I think it will give you a wrong color. And understand if my EBITDA growth happens, that means my pat growth happens and that’s what ultimately matters to the company and to its shareholders. So I will strongly suggest that after this financial year, let’s focus on instead of margin, let’s focus on the growth of the ebitda.
Gautam Rathi
Understood. That’s very fair. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for answering the questions.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, you may press star and 1. The next question is from the line of Ridhima Goyal from Acquaint Bee Ventures. Please go ahead.
Ridhima Goyal
Hi Mr. Rama. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. I have two questions. First I just wanted to know like earlier if we see that we have a average, you know, growth rate of around 30, 35% and now in FY20 we have, you know, we are targeting around 25 and going forward also we are seeing that 25 kegger is expected. So I want to know like what is exactly happening in the industry? Are we facing any complications or like what is happening? Why are we not able to have the earlier run rate of you know, 35% plus growth rate and also what is the reason of decline in margins? I know that B2C cost is what we have incurred and that has resulted in the dent in margin. But since we are going to calibrate this cost going forward, then again we are targeting for 38%. So what is the reason for the, you know, the dent in margins also and its target?
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Let me first answer your this margin just now I made the statement that starting going forward, let’s talk, let’s start understanding what is the EBITDA growth and not this margin. Because if we focus on this margin, my revenue growth will get adversely impacted. Any one of you and I’m sure all of you understand that if the revenue growth happens with that kind of emitter margin, then it’s like you are living in a different world. So you are talking about the competition and all that? Yes, competition is there all across. How can we operate without competition immediately? Even in Maps, in certain parts of Maps we do have competition from Google. Our job is to try to get that business from them, snatch that business from them and bring it to us. In government also, there are many companies who are bidding and who are trying to get and they are also growing. Every business vertical will have a different kind of margin. The company’s objective is to how to keep increasing the revenue growth. Answering your first part of the question about that 35, 40% growth in the revenue. Well, we never said 35, 40%. I don’t remember ever saying it. What we had said was thousand crore revenue in FY28. Some people like you might have done some reverse calculation and come to the conclusion that 35% is required. I don’t know how it was computed. The last two years we did achieve around 30, 35% growth. So we are targeting 1000 crores. And I’ll continue saying that the thousand crores is our target for FY28.
Ridhima Goyal
Hello. Hello. Yes. Actually just the reason we, we wanted to know is this why the like the growth rate has slowed down. I understand that you have a target of thousand crores by FY28. But you know, we were growing at 30, 35% and just you know, reaching to 25% total. It is a concern or maybe just we wanted to know the reason behind that.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Anyway, another way to understand is from a lower base the percentage can be higher. From a higher base the percentage. I think several ways to look at it.
Ridhima Goyal
Got it. And the second question is, so I wanted to understand on this new contract, so since you said that we have five years contract, I wanted to know like how does it work? Like every year if you, if for example Kia makes 100 vehicles, your maps are being installed on, on all of those hundred vehicles. Then in second year if they again manufacture 80 vehicles, then that is your 80, you know, maps are being installed. Then how does it work? Like what happens post 5 years install? Will there will be the renewal of your, you know, the mapping thing or like that you will have a different contract of new vehicles being manufactured. And the ASP of 800 includes the installation part or is it includes the renewal also?
Sapna Ahuja
Okay, I’ll take that question. Clearly our contracts are based on the number of vehicles produced for the program for which we have signed the contract. And under one program there could be multiple make and models of the vehicle that could fall in. So on the IQI said all vehicles but that would be different for different OEMs. Our contract terms conditions could be limited to specific Mr. Programs also. Now our contract, every contract would be different from the perspective of the number of years and the renewal strategy. But typically we sign, you know, our licensing term is for three to five years and post that there is a renewal which is an option to the OEM and to the end customer as well so they can get the plan renewed at a certain cost.
Ridhima Goyal
Okay. Okay, got it. And just a request. Will it be possible for you guys to give more granular detail on your segment wise like what is the variable and fixed contract mix and in variable like what is like for A M. What would be the number of vehicles which are being you know we are installing our maps on a quarterly basis so it will give us more clear picture to you know track the the KPIs of your business. Otherwise it would be very difficult for us to predict what is going to happen in the next quarter.
Sapna Ahuja
Share the number of vehicles…
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Clearly we are — but just now, but still to help you all, I did mention that we had a 23% growth in the number of licenses as compared to the last last year for the nine months. So if you have that number last year so you can compare that and say 20% growth has happened.
Ridhima Goyal
Okay, Got it. Got it. Thank you so much. That’s it from the side.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Well, thank you all for listening to us patiently. All that I can say that we are on track. We have a great team here to deliver what we talk about. So let’s hope that you also have confidence in us the way we have confidence internally. Thank you so much.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.
Rakesh Kumar Verma
Thanks.