Camlin Fine Sciences Limited (NSE: CAMLINFINE) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 23, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Ashish Dandekar — Chairman and Managing Director
Santosh Parab — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Surya Narayan — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Q4 and FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of Fine Science Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assessments during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchdown phone.
This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on-date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involves risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict.
With that, I now hand the conference over to Mr Ashish Dandekar, Chairman and Managing Director, Cameron Fine Science Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Ashish Dandekar — Chairman and Managing Director
Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our quarterly call. We are sorry and we apologize for the delay in the call. It was due to technical issues with uploading the results. And I’m sure you’ll appreciate that we would like to give you more time to study them.
Doing always, Parab, our CFO will give you a brief of the quarter and the performance and issues after which Nirmal Mumaya, Managing Director, will be answering your questions along with Santosh. Santosh? Thanks, Ashish. Good evening, everybody. Thanks for attending our earnings call.
Santosh Parab — Chief Financial Officer
As you are aware, the times are quite difficult general global situation on tariffs and war and all these things has been a very difficult time still we have been able to give fairly good results we had I just stayed die down to the consolidated results. As you would have seen from the our disclosures as you know, we had two units which were not — the business was closed or the manufacturing was stocked in by our unit in Europe and our first 12 manufacturing unit in China.
These both have had stopped two years back and the Board has decided to discontinue or abund this business and hence, as per the accounting guidelines, we have segregated our results into two, one of our core business or what we call technically as a continuing operations and a discontinued operation.
So the discontinued operations which have been presented in the results pertain to those of two abandoned or closed down units where we feel that the production is economic and viable and there is remote chance of revising those two projects. As you are aware, the adequate provision on both these assets was done in September and we had impaired the entire value of both the plants in September quarter.
So as per the accounting guidelines, this results have been segregated into continued and discontinued and all the impact also of the earlier quarters has been regrouped and disclosed as per the accounting guidelines. Now coming to the operating part of the business, we have — it’s — in the current quarter we have a total turnover of INR437 crores as against INR431 crores in the last quarter. And on an annualized basis, we have — we have INR1,439 crores, which has now increased to INR166 crores.
This has been largely though the prices of all the products have been but we have been able to hold-on to our volumes, in fact, grow in some of the sectors like our blends business, we have grown and of course, the business is is what has started growing. It has been steadily ramped-up and as compared to the last year, we had a much, much better results on annual business.
So the total growth what we have seen in revenues on an annual basis continuing on the core business has grown by almost 15% year-on-year. We also had an improved EBITDA of core business of around 12.5% and that’s around INR208 crores as in ’25 as compared to INR184 crores of the comparable business in the last year.
So we have been able to maintain our margin on the core business despite the main products prices have been a bit south bombed. We have a healthy growth in Blansk, especially in the North American market as well as the exciting growth in India. And of course, our stabilized business in Mexico have been increasing at a very-high pace. Overall, the blends business has grown by around 17% to 18% year-on-year.
So we have reached around INR878 crores as compared to INR747 crores in the last year. Of course, blends business also increase — includes CFS Meta 4, the new blend business which we bought in Europe, Belgium, which in first-quarter of this year. It’s nine months thing, but it also click around INR85 crores . Crores in this year and we feel that it will have higher momentum as we go-ahead. The main flavor in the cap has been aroma. The — we have continued our momentum of growth in this quarter, the total contribution of revenue from Aroma has been around INR176 crores in FY ’25 and we — this ramp-up will go — will come or increase in the subsequent quarters with anti-dumping duty action in US and you would be aware now that even European Union has levered up the preliminary duty of 131 and that will be finalized in next few months. Months and that augurs well for us because obviously the prices will go up. So there has been, of course, the question is that what would be the cash burn on the discontinued business? We are confident that these cash burns will be reducing because we have abandoned the plant and since we are not going to restart it in a foreseeable future, we are — we’ll be reducing substantially in this cost. We would be also looking at how to reduce this cost further and we feel that this cash burn will reduce substantially. Something on the balance sheet, you know that our equity has increased because we had a successful right issue in Jan ’25. We have been able to control the overall debt position. The net-debt position has improved from INR564 to INR592. The things go well for us, we feel that the growth momentum will continue in the future with stabilization of business, the war and difficult times, more clarity coming, we can have a better understanding of the future. Thanks so much.
Operator
Yes, sir. Should we begin the Q&A session?
Santosh Parab — Chief Financial Officer
Yeah, you can.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Yes. Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a your question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
The first question is from the line of Rohan Mehta from Pecon Family Office. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes. Yes, sir, you are. Okay, perfect. So, could you share the volume of exports to the US specifically for the month of March and April? And secondly, what is your understanding of the recent ADD and CVD duties imposed on Chinese producers, will these be applicable for the fixed period of five years or is it structured as three years with an option to extend by two years?
Ashish Dandekar
Sharing of specific data to US is not possible because very competitive — competitor sensitive data. But overall growth has been there. We have been — you can see from the volumes, the revenue, the amount of revenues which we have disclosed in our investor call. And April is certainly not. It’s a clearly a forward-looking statement.
We cannot share that this year numbers. Maybe you can add-on the release or typically it’s a five years
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay, okay. Perfect. And also on the prices for Europe and USA for, what is the current difference? Sorry, what is the current difference between — what is the endurance and the price, the difference will be about 20% or so 20% to 25% because the ADDs are different between what is in Europe and what is in the US. So US is high on hydrogen, that’s right and what is the number for US currently as on-date?
Santosh Parab
No, I mean, I can’t give you specific numbers. The range is the range I can tell you is in the range of $15. So in the range of $15.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. Got it. And in terms of your utilization for the plant, where do you see the capacity utilization, let’s say, in the next two years?
Santosh Parab
In the next two years, we want to take it up to 100% as the market development gets better the idea is to take it to 100% in the next two years.
Unidentified Participant
Right. And what is what is it today, sir as on-date?
Santosh Parab
As on-date, we’ll be at about 45% to 50%. So 45% to 50%.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Got it. Got it. And one last thing, what is — if you look on the business going-forward? Do you see at what run-rate on an EBITDA basis do you see this business at?
Santosh Parab
Essentially we should grow that blend business by about 20% in the — in-going forward in the next two to three years. And EBITDA margins will improve in some of the geographies because with a certain threshold. So the team — it will be in the high-teens EBITDA margin.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. And what is it currently as a percentage of revenue, like what could it be in the next two years, the blend business?
Ashish Dandekar
Given the capacity utility, let’s say, is that 100%, so as we say we don’t know what would be the future prices. You know that our capacity is 6,000 tons and you can calculate that number. As far as the is concerned, we — we are at INR878 crores currently. So 20% CAGR for next two years, that also numbers can be calculated and as said, these are high-teen business and as they mature, they move towards 20%.
Unidentified Participant
20% got it. Got it. Lastly, is there any pricing pressure are you facing on any product at the moment
Santosh Parab
Or just pricing pressure on all products. Except value, except run right now because in two markets, but otherwise there’s a lot of pricing pressure coming from competition from China.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. So in terms of or any inventory destocking issues you’re facing? We didn’t get the question. Can you repeat it? So in the business when it comes to the inventory, any destocking issues are you facing or any pricing pressure any pressure over there since earlier customers, they had built-up inventory
Santosh Parab
That will take a few months the destocking to happen. So that’s part of the reason why we said it take more than a year to ramp-up 200%.
Unidentified Participant
Sure, sure, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much for the clarifications. I’ll get back-in the queue.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind participants that you may press star N1 to ask a question. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jatin Sangwan from Burman Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks for taking my question. One thing I’ve observed is sales have not picked-up Q-o-Q. Is there any reason for that? As you know, we have been selling in the US. So there is a stock on sea, it’s one thing. We also control the sale because we are looking at the prices will increase.
Ashish Dandekar
So it doesn’t matter to wait for a couple of quarters to get a $15 realization and a $12 current realization.
Unidentified Participant
Sure, got it. And you mentioned that when in price in US is in the ranges of 10, so Europe would be around $12. So when will this price reflect in our utilization? So what I wanted to understand is how long is our order cycle
Santosh Parab
Right now will start reflecting in the next few months next few months.
Unidentified Participant
And what was the average utilization in the — in Q4 FY ’25 for vanilin the average utilization — capacity utilization you are asking on average realization in Q4 FY ’25 for vanilin. So you reported sales of around INR60 crores for vanilin. So what was the average sale price for in Q4 FY ’25?
Santosh Parab
Price has been increasing, it’s in the range, so it should be in the range of $12 to $13 a loan growth of $12 to $13.
Unidentified Participant
And also you mentioned that our capacity utilization of is 45 to 15. So was that for Q4 FY
Unidentified Participant
’25 or Q1 FY ’26? Q4 FY ’25, and how has been your Q1 doing tell me this is really a forward-looking statement. I think we g as I said that we’ll be growing, sure. Yeah, yeah. So also if I look at your Europe losses and China losses, they have also increased Q-on-Q. And I wanted to understand if you’re reporting INR22 crore INR23 crores of discontinued losses, what will be the breakup of those losses, how much are related to employees and how much are other fixed expenses?
And when will we actually start seeing the reduction in these losses?
Ashish Dandekar
And also, as we said, because the decision of abundant was taken, we had to really clean-up the plants and other things. So there are some one-time losses expenses which we incurred in this quarter. So these are not regular around INR14 crores of that is non-routine. But we’ll be reducing the employee cost.
The employee cost is a major portion in this annual employee cost for Europe was INR16 crores, which is going to reduce the next financial year-by at least 90%.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. And if I got you right, you are saying that you will only see INR8 crore of discontinued losses in Q1 FY ’26.
Ashish Dandekar
Yes, cash burn should not be more than INR800 crores. Going-forward on employee cost, there could be some fixed-cost to be incurred because it’s a plant is abundant, but we are not borrowing it. So there could be some janitorial cost and security cost side cost.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. And also, I mean, we have been discussing this for the last few calls. Your cost of production of is still $9 or has it moved in either direction?
Ashish Dandekar
As we told you that because this average utilization is at 45%, that’s the reason why these are. When we — as we go beyond 70% 75% of breakeven, this should come down to sub 9%.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, got it. And also if I look at your, let’s say, year-on-year expenses, employee expenses have jumped by around 25%. So what has led to this?
Ashish Dandekar
One thing is that we added Vida 4 in this year, so which was not there in the last corresponding year, corresponding quarter also. That’s one thing. Generally, lot of business in — is in Americas, America euro where the annual salary cycle is calendar year. So generally the costs go up and salary of normal salary rise.
And of course, we are also dressing up for additional people on-sale side and we are anticipating growth, we are anticipating growth in almost all sectors. So we are also breaking about how sales and technical peoples onboard.
Unidentified Participant
Got it. And if I look at your depreciation expenses, it has jumped up sharply Q-o-Q, but you have not done any CapEx or anything. So what is driving this?
Ashish Dandekar
And these are the regrouping which happened and Vita 4 also came which was not there year-on-year is the main reason Vita kicking-in this. We also had couple of lease assets accounting thing. Once you get the full annual balance sheet, you will see that there are certain lease assets.
So to save on cash, we rather than going for purchase of assets, we have gone for lease of assets and as you know, the disclosure is in finance cost and depreciation on this and that is increased. It will be more clear than publisher animal accounts?
Unidentified Participant
Sure, got it. That was the last question from my end thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star N1. The next question is from the line of Surya Narayan from PhillipCapital. Please go-ahead.
Surya Narayan
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, my first question is on the possible implication of the tariffs, although that is not very clear, but if you can send something or you would be having communication with your clients and since you are having also the global operation, so what possible implication that it can throw?
Santosh Parab
It’s very difficult to answer that question, Suvia everything keeps moving who knows what tariff will come on, which product in which country so it’s very, very difficult really to project what will happen, but all we know is that hopefully at least for India, we should not be worse off than our main competitors competing countries like China so in that sense, either it will be on equal grounds or we may have some advantage.
Surya Narayan
Okay. And generally also there is a large list of products which are exempted from the tariff and all by US. And for many of the kind of food-oriented chemicals, which would be like for us the states and all that the blends also possibly. So that is free from tariffs and hence there would be no impact.
So that is the right way to think or how is it, sir?
Santosh Parab
Yes. So some of the straights, yes, that is right. But we don’t sell much straights into the US on our antioxidants from India. So really speaking, it doesn’t make much of a difference or any significant material difference most of our business is supply from other places. So that’s how those tariffs even though there are no tariffs, it’s not going to really give us any impact.
Surya Narayan
Okay. Second question about the blends business. This quarter generally Q-o-Q, if I see then there is a kind of declining trend that we are witnessing.
Santosh Parab
See, generally, the perception was that 4th-quarter being the best quarter in terms of the revenue at least for the company that is in the trend. Is it not the trend for the blends business or there is specific things that has resulted in a quarterly thing, a declined on the blend. So the blend business essentially is also the Q4 is always slightly muted, purely because in some parts of the world where we have substantial business mostly in LatAm and Central America it’s a holiday, extended holiday season. The business has come back to work post mid January.
So you’re essentially restricted to two months kind of scenario. Then there are some seasonal things also which impact like fishing season in some parts of the world where we have business, which got delayed. So instead of you seeing business in Feb-March, you’ll see it in April, May because the fishing seasons got delayed.
So there are some clhematic conditions which lead to some cyclicality based on not necessarily the time, but on climatic conditions.
Surya Narayan
Okay. Okay. And generally, we have been talking about slightly higher-growth 25% plus for this. Now obviously, we have seen a very strong base also hence possibly moderated EBIT, our guidance of 20%. But on the top of that, if you can give some clarity about how integrated benefit that you are likely to see on the blends business led by your — the Vitapur acquisition and the potential acquisition of and all those contributing, how would that be contributing to this going ahead, if you can give some sense for the next year?
Santosh Parab
Yeah. So we’ve not actually considered in the 20% growth. If we get once that is completed, I mean, so we probably will end-up at the 25% number that we’ve guided in the past. It’s — that’s of course, subject to when the Winpai closes, but there is very good interest in products from both Vita 4 and Winpai across the geographies where we have our own selling and distribution setup.
Of course, the other parts of the world, we have distributors, which we are expanding relationships with our distributors on a global level. So you will see a lot of movement coming from not only the areas that we ourselves are present in, but also other parts of the world. So I think both the lines that we’ve
Surya Narayan
Got win by more-and-more in the food segment and EBITDA more in the animal utilization segment, both are I think, very well-positioned for growth and okay. Sir, what is the update in terms of the timeline for the acquisition sir? And also whether would be more influential to growth compared to White?
Santosh Parab
So I think the regulatory for procedures, I think corporate actions and all that required to be done should be completed in the next two months and that should be done by July end. In terms of growth potential, yes, Vinpai does have a fantastic grid growth potential because of the — the categories of products that they are in are substantial categories and with some differentiated technology, it’s well-positioned to get some market-share.
Surya Narayan
Yes. Sure, sir. And just on the gross margin front, although in the second-half of FY ’25, we have seen we crossed 50% mark, so almost like after two years of gap. So is it purely led by the incremental revenue coming from the aroma and no benefit of, let’s say, the corrected input prices and the initial sign of rising prices and happens then where that we can target with the ramp-up also that is likely to happen on the front, what the gross margin scenario that we should really anticipate?
Santosh Parab
So it’s — when you look at it, we lose money on as soon as we convert it to Vanolin, there is a swing in gross margin. So that swing in gross margin will continue to happen on one-side. On the other side, there are several products where we are seeing a lot of price pressure and a lot of competition, very aggressive competition.
So when you balance it, you kind of say that it will be in the region of 45% to 55% in that — in that zone, you end-up at based on product mix, based on how the market is behaving, but that’s the region where we are essentially playing on.
Surya Narayan
Okay. Okay. Okay. So one more point just with your permission, see, on the vanilin side, see, obviously the finalization of the ADD is likely to happen by July, but by now, you would be having in some sense in terms of the placement order booking and all that. And is it practically two place apartment, sir, apart from, it is you that is actively pursuing this contracts and negotiations and all that with the US parties or what is the feel and feel about the volume visibility for the subsequent period, if you can provide something on the vanilin side, yeah.
Santosh Parab
So essentially in the vanilin business in the US and in Europe now also the has been 31% has been proposed which will get confirmed in the next month or two. Essentially that kind of gives and us some advantage. And I suppose we’ll get majority of the share of the market between being the market-leader and us being a second player.
We will see volumes growing from these two markets in the next three to four quarters, you’ll see the growth coming in. Any other third player that is likely, in your sense at the moment, there is nobody, but we don’t know. I mean, if somebody is in the — in the annual, but not that we heard of.
Surya Narayan
Okay. Just last point, sir, if you can share some of your investment and capex plan, if any for next year.
Santosh Parab
So right now, we are not looking at any significant capexes because we need to first also spread our plant. So no significant capex is just maintenance and some-odd debottlenecking and that kind of.
Surya Narayan
Okay, sure. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Wish you all the best. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ajit Sanjay from Niraj Enterprises. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Am I audible, sir? Yes, yes, sir you are. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. And most of my questions have been answered. But one clarification I wanted, sir, about marketing business. Do we have any order or any updates on that, sir? No, nothing on update about Lockheed right now. It’s on — they’ve installed the first battery.
Santosh Parab
They’re waiting for some feedback. So no other at this point of time.
Unidentified Participant
Any timeline for that or anything sort of that?
Santosh Parab
No, very difficult to say it’s not really.
Unidentified Participant
So hope you done, sir. Thank you so much. Thanks.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Niraj from White Pine Investment. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. On the tariff side, can you give some thought process how you see the evolution happening? Do you see the margin compression happening and how are our products based on competitiveness? And do you see the margins compressing in non-US areas? So some thoughts on yours would be useful.
Ashish Dandekar
See, this is — the question is with respect to? No, across, sir. Because, we are clear that the US and Europe will benefit because of the anti-dumping and others may — other side the prices may go down.
Unidentified Participant
But can you talk about the blend side business and margins and how much impact — do you see any impact because of the tariff on the competitive pressure in the because of the tariff side
Santosh Parab
Mr Tarriffs, essentially I mentioned earlier that very difficult to predict what will happen. At this point of time, we don’t see it as a disadvantage or an advantage. The way our view is that the tariffs over a period of time will kind of balance out. And I don’t think any country will have significant advantage or disadvantages.
So from that perspective, it seems like we should be — we should be okay on our margins as far as the blend business is concerned.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And second question is, is the inventory in the US so high that it will take a year for you to scale-up the production? Yeah. So regarding was sorry, I think in the inventory, you’re saying there is inventory in the US because of the pre-buying before the anti-dumping. So is the inventory quite large in the US that you will take a year for skimming up your production of?
Santosh Parab
And it’s difficult to say that it’s very difficult to say how much talk how much talking has been done, but I mean we are seeing that it’s but what we are seeing is
Ashish Dandekar
I’ll tell you so see we can’t really estimate what kind of violence talking has happened in US and how much some anybody is carrying. But you could — certainly — we could certainly see that there is some release of stock and hence our sales in US are growing. And that’s why we are saying that it’s just ramping-up the production to 100% in the first year itself may be detrimental even to the prices. So we feel that with respect to our capacity, we will be reaching 100% over a period of next two years.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And what is the price of booking running in right now? Not in the Q4 numbers, what is the price of bookings in right now? Making manufacturing, right? What is — I’m asking something. What I’m asking is, what is the price that you are doing an agreement to sell that so that it depends on-market to-market and customer-to-customer on an average — an average number.
Santosh Parab
We told you that we can use this quarter. 13% to 15% is the range.
Ashish Dandekar
As we said also that we are around a range of $23 in the Q4. At present, the range is $13 to $15, which based on the volume of country how much quantity wants. So it’s very — it’s very specific. So 10-K can be sold at $25 understand.
Unidentified Participant
And the last question, what is the estimate of your 6,000 tons if you reach
Unidentified Participant
100% utilization, say, in two, 3/4 from now, what is the estimate of that? How much you will be able to sell-in the US and the European market?
Santosh Parab
Yeah. What is the share in Europe and American market?
Unidentified Participant
They are almost the same size. Both are same size markets. I’m wondering what of the total, say, 6,000 tons you produce and sell it, say, a year from now when you reach 100% utilization, how much do you estimate that combined US and Europe, you will be able to speak to them. So what I’m trying to get is how much percentage of your sales volumes will come from anti-dumping markets? Meeting?
Santosh Parab
Our estimate is about 70% should go into those markets, 30% is in other markets.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, great. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star N1. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nagraj from B&K Securities. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, first question is on bonds. So we have grown by almost 18% 20% during this year and we still have confidence that we’ll be able to grow beyond 15%. So what is the driving factor for this growth and from a composition perspective, how the blends are supplied to different geographies and which geographies are finding this strong growth momentum coming in? Thank you.
Santosh Parab
I think we are essentially seeing the growth in all the geographies that we are present in, whether it is North-America, Central America, South America as well as India and Europe. We’ve also opened some markets for our blends business in the Middle-East and Africa and some of the Asian markets.
So the growth is coming from all across. Right. But you can also refer to the presentation where Mexican, Brazilian and North American and Belgium are predominantly blends market.
Unidentified Participant
Right, but there is it that we are displacing some of the local players or is it that the industry itself is growing by 15%? I just wanted to have a view on that.
Santosh Parab
It’s the combination of both. Some of it is taking market-share and some of it is growth..
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, sure. That’s helpful. Second question in the opening remarks and subsequently you told that for the operations which will be abandoned, we’ll be impairing about INR8 crores per quarter. How long we’ll have to incur it and whether on a year-on-year basis that INR8 crore per quarter can come down materially over the next two, three years?
Santosh Parab
Yes. So the idea is that this INR8 crores a quarter is for the next couple of quarters at Max, because after the closing procedure is completed in a in a way which complies with all regulation and safety law we will in those — in that locality or in that plant, we will have no employees there really workers there apart from a couple which are required secretarily. So the cash burn over a period of time on an annualized basis should not be more than INR4 crores to INR5 crores.
Unidentified Participant
So effectively in FY ’27, it could be about INR4, INR5 crores, nothing beyond that, right?
Santosh Parab
Yeah, that’s right. Even this year, I mean it will be substantially lower than what we’ve been now?
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Got it. And for the assets there, I mean, is there any value for those assets when we are probably dismantling and selling
Santosh Parab
We are not dismantling it. We are just it for the time-being. We’ll be finding some alternative news if we do.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Right. Sir. That’s all from my side. Thanks a lot and all the best.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ajay from USha. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, congratulations on the performance. Sir, my question is, if you can highlight which engine manufacturers do we actively compete with in the flavors in segment and the part? That’s my only question.
Santosh Parab
No, we are — in the vanilin part, we don’t compete versus anyone in India. It’s only the Chinese in and only flavor blend segment flavor blend so we don’t have flavor blend in our portfolio there are many competition. In India, there are different competitors. In every market, there are different competitors.
The local competitors, there are some MNC competitors. So it’s a — we have several lines in the blends and there are different competitors in different blends. So there’ll be a large number. So any idea on what market-share we hold over there if you can — can you put a number to that or it’s very difficult to understand. They are very difficult to understand the market-share because it’s very segmented.
Unidentified Participant
Got it, sir. All the best.
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question to the management, you may press star N1 on your telephone keypad. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan Atwant from Prat Capital. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. Sir, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, on the gross margin range that you said of 45% to 55%, which is a large range. But given the pickup and the pricing that we are obtaining right now and the benefit it has in terms of reducing catacol losses, et-cetera. From a near-term perspective, shouldn’t this margin move more towards 55% than the 45% range?
Santosh Parab
That’s what we are hoping, but let us see how it unfolds.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, sir, because you said there are some headwinds, but this tailwind of should overwhelm those headwinds or am I not understanding it right?
Santosh Parab
So as we said that that’s why said that 55% is the outbound range. Yeah, that’s the range between 45,000 to 50,000 depending on at what level — he also mentioned about the product he says and you are hinting towards that more higher-margin
Unidentified Participant
Got it. And sir, the current vanilin price of $13 to $15 that you mentioned, it is without the duty in Europe being confirmed as yet. So once that is confirmed, shouldn’t this price further go up because today there would be some Chinese panel in finding its way into Europe and that would be putting pressure on euro.
But once that is out, then the — there should be more tailwind to the price
Santosh Parab
Yeah, that is of course like said occur for you but yeah, no, it would so it would essentially what we understand is there is a 131% GT and which kind of says that there is a head — there is room for at least 10%, 15% of pricing — prices to go up in Europe from where they are currently.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. Okay. So from a strategy perspective, are you thinking that let’s not book too much capacities right now because prices could further go up and we could get locked into a lower rate and that’s why it might take some time for volumes to pick-up?
Santosh Parab
Yeah, there are two things to this. You’re right. One is you don’t want to sign very large-volume commitments. Second is also some of these buyers have — have already bought a lower-price material and have stopped. So they’re also — they will also wait it out and negotiate hard till such time as their stock positions become critical.
So it’s a waiting game and you’re absolutely right with your question.
Unidentified Participant
And sir, just lastly, this confirmation of the European duty, is it just a matter of time or is there more process that may or may not go in favour of the duty being confirmed?
Santosh Parab
Well, very difficult to answer that. But what we understand at least from the market that the big players are all approaching us for volumes of product and commitments for volume. So which obviously is giving a sign that for sure and the company which has the biggest injury and is applied for the anti-dumping duty, they seem to be very sure there is always that these duties will be levied.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. Thank you and all the best.
Santosh Parab
Thanks. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Surya Narayan from PhillipCapital. Please go-ahead.
Surya Narayan
Yeah. Just one more thing on the branded product that I am seeing the DA3 and Omega, the products that is visible on the obviously. So is there any visible progress that we have witnessed in FY ’25? And ’25 and whether it is part of the aroma business or brands which is where it has been confident.
Santosh Parab
It’s in the others. It’s not put right now in any of the categories. But yeah, we have some very good conversations going on. Of course, FY ’25, you won’t see a massive jump, but there are some projects in the pipeline and some contracts that are being negotiated. If they come to fruition, which we should know in the next three to four months, then in FY ’26, you could see a big jump-in that.
Surya Narayan
Okay. And whether the product approval from the advanced market or anything, if any major market has been already-approved or something like that or it is not required to get any regulatory approval, it is just supply based on the customer approval.
Santosh Parab
Not regulatory approval is not required, it is more from buyers. So although it is a DHA and healthcare-related product, still it is that is permitted. So all you have to do is most countries permit BHA in food and baby foods and human consumption as well as for animal consumption. So regulatory is not such a big issue.
Surya Narayan
Okay. Okay. And just one more point. So post the — this thing, the cancellation of the operation there in the Italy. So ultimately, going ahead, whether what run-rate that we are quarterly seeing in terms of revenue. So that is a sustainable number or how should one think or it is likely to — because there is lens activities that is also there within that?
Ashish Dandekar
Yes. So at present blends for the annual blends is in the terms of INR52 to INR50 crores to INR60 crores. And we are more focused more to ingredient business in Europe. This is heavily grow. The growth which had in blends from 20%, some portion of that will also come from.
Surya Narayan
Okay. So that means the quarterly run-rate is definitely going to sustain sustained with some growth.
Santosh Parab
Yes.
Surya Narayan
Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Thank you, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohit Ragraj from B&K Securities. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah thanks for the follow-up. Apologies if you have shared the data probably earlier, but in terms of the four segments that we are operating in, what could be a broader range of EBITDA margins for each of the segments.
Ashish Dandekar
It’s a competitive information point. We can — you can see the overall margins in blends, we have been paying a 20% random years share. So that’s — it’s very difficult. Other business states and Performance Chemicals are very EBITDA margin, so it will be very difficult to exactly view that we don’t for that.
Unidentified Participant
Right, right. Just in terms of maybe subjective assessment of the same, what could be the chronology in terms of high-margin to low-margin?
Ashish Dandekar
We saw 12% 10%, that could be said to be a low-margin on a composite business. High margins, it’s predominantly has always been very business., it’s an opportunity where it can even have a very-high business margin. Generally, we should be near high.
Unidentified Participant
That gives a good idea. Thank you so much, sir.
Operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rohan Mehta from Fecom Family Office. Please go-ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you. Thanks for follow-up. So I wanted to understand what is the gross margin for we shared the prices.
Ashish Dandekar
We said that we are producing at nine of 10 and average price were in the range of INR2 to 30 cost.
Unidentified Participant
But these will be the spreads, right or is that the cost of production which you have mentioned that increased the other operating cost as well, right?
Ashish Dandekar
Yeah.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, yes, I’m asking probably on the gross margins, not on the spread.
Ashish Dandekar
So the — at the current canol prices and coke prices, the raw-material cost ranges between $7.5 to $8.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And what percentage of alumin are once you are at full capacity utilization, will it be as a percentage or what will be the percentage of auto at full capacity?
Ashish Dandekar
Kind of formula says that we should get 5% of also aluminum on only on, not and
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And in terms of the cost of production for, would it be somewhere around 17 to 20 loners or is it much lower? Of production is lower than $17 to $70. 17 to be
Santosh Parab
Much lower. It will be in the $10 range.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, okay. So this is both for the euro and US facility.
Santosh Parab
Yeah,
Unidentified Participant
All right. And would it be like sort of ridiculous or impossible to say that prices can move-up to $20 who knows
Santosh Parab
That difficult to say about it go but yeah, it’s difficult to say and some the blend, sorry. Is it difficult to really say where it will go and settle, so right.
Unidentified Participant
Right. In terms of the blend business, any two to three prominent players with making game
Santosh Parab
There is, there is Altec, there is feed there are like 20 of them. In antioxidants it come in all type is in some other products then you have BSN in some of these businesses. So there are 2030 companies there nutrition right, right.
Unidentified Participant
And while I’m not asking for a specific market per k, but what was the amount of sold-in the last quarter as a whole? Could you give that detail you have.
Santosh Parab
You know the value is paper we told you the value aroma engage is calculated.
Unidentified Participant
All right. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Santosh Parab
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.
Santosh Parab
Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for being with us. We hope you’ve managed to answer most of your questions and we look-forward to catching-up with you again at the next investor call. Until then, have a good evening.
Operator
Thank you. On behalf of Cameron Fine Science Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you