Camlin Fine Sciences Limited (NSE: CAMLINFINE) Q3 2026 Earnings Call dated Feb. 13, 2026
Corporate Participants:
Ashish Dandekar — Chairman of the Board, Managing Director
Santosh Parab — Chief Financial Officer
Nirmal Momaya — Executive Director and Managing Director
Analysts:
Hrushikesh Shah — Analyst
Satish Kumar — Analyst
Surya Narayan Patra — Analyst
Rehan Laljee — Analyst
Rohan Advant — Analyst
Niraj Mansingka — Analyst
Chaitya Doshi — Analyst
Shikhar Mundra — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Camblyn Fine Sansis Limited Q3 and 9 months FY26 earnings call hosted by Strategic Growth Advisors. This conference call may contain forward looking statements about the company which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes.
Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashish Dandekar. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Ashish Dandekar — Chairman of the Board, Managing Director
Thank you. Welcome ladies and gentlemen to this quarterly earnings call. We know your time is precious so we’ll get right into it. Joining me is Nirmal Mumaya, Managing Director and Santosh Parab, cfo. Santosh will first give you highlights and numbers of the a quarter after which both of them will answer your questions. Thank you for being here Santosh.
Santosh Parab — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you Ashish. Good evening everybody. I’ll directly jump into the to the business. Yes, this this quarter has been a bit tipped. We had turnover of 572 crores. It was almost equal to what we did in Q2 but there is a 6% hike as when we compare it to the last corresponding quarter. We had been telling you that we will be doing high amount of Vanillin sale. We had done almost 700 odd tons in the last year which looking at the entire tariff scenario and other things we had control our sale because we knew that this saying there is more than likely to have higher realizations because of the tariff.
As you know we have been selling at an average price of 12.5 especially in US because of the tariff situation. In this quarter we did 490 crores of sales to the third party. However, in the in the internal channels that is with our subsidiaries in India as well as in the financing distributors we have around 650 tons out of which around 500 is committed 12 and a half. But the recent reduction of tariff to 25% we can have a benefit of that on the 400 crore ton stock which we have in the some part of it will fall in the quarter one the quarter four and then major portion will fall in quarter one.
From quarter one the real benefit of this will will be appearing so 1 million we deal 490 which is around tons which is around 55% crores with a realization price of 12 and a half assurance trades. The main ingredient business is there. It has seen a fall in has come down to 80 crores from 87. Primarily for two reasons. One, the prices have been going down and that’s what is impacting our margins. And as you know there are local manufacturers who have come and there’s intense competition in India itself. Plus this business has a very plateaued growth and hence there is an intense competition.
We had some bit of lower volumes also but the major portion was because dip in the realizations on states. As far as blends is concerned. We have been saying blends has been the hallmark of our business and we have grown around 11% corresponding quarter and almost 13% this quarter. We clocked around 271 crores in this quarter. Of course this also was pushed by our recent acquisition which happened on December 1. The French company Windpire listed company which contributed almost near to 13 crores in this quarter. And that has also helped to grow the business. Blends remains on track.
It is going to grow at a very high growth rate of what we have been saying as far as performance is concerned. As we have been saying that this is what diphenol other than aroma and the straights. These are the chemicals where there were always lower margins and it remains plateaued. So in total the revenue was 457 crores. Coming to the cost structure, if you see employee cost, we have been saying employee cost has been increasing because we are bracing for this feature. We have been acquiring new geographies and companies all over the world and which requires people on the ground all across who are experts to help us save.
So there are a lot of investment in employee cost which has been happening over last few quarters now almost we will be adding few people but not more. So you can see the employee cost has been quite stable increases because of the acquisition which we did in minpy. So the salary also increased one month and generally in the American and Latin American markets they’re like. It’s like Diwali in Christmas. So there is some kind of statutory bonus is also paid. As far as other expenses have come in. Expenses are concerned, they remain under control and we feel that they will remain in this range for the next quarter and will increase as the revenue grows.
EBITDA coming to the ebitda. Yes, EBITDA expectation was high because we had said that we’ll be doing a higher number of on Vanillin which we have In a way controlled it to take the benefit of the tariff. Because if you’d have sold now, we would have lost in any case realize only 12 and a half dollars. Delaying the sale into the subsequent quarters will help us to get two to three more dollars per kilogram which is plain cash and entire ebitda. So that was a plan to do. You would have also learned that we had disclosed that there was a fire incident last week.
Last Saturday at our one of the blending unit in Brazil. It was a massive fire at one of the machine which was being commissioned. And the fire was such of such extent that almost we have lost all the stock which was there in the. It was along with the warehouse this. This unit. So however, we have another unit also which is working and is operational. Obviously we have to. We will keep on continuing opera operation. Brazil was looking forward. There was great action and it remains very interesting orders on various blends as well as biodiesel market which is a market in Brazil.
We have trying to provide raw material from our nearest geographies and also from the local distributors. We want to keep the sale happening obviously because we are sort of buying on spot. Bit of margins will get impacted. But we are trying to keep the traction on sales. Keep our customer service, honor all our orders. As far as today’s condition is concerned, the survey is expected. Insurance survey is expected to start tomorrow. At this moment we feel that we are adequately insured. The surveys generally take three to four weeks. So there will be clarity on the surveys and other things.
We are also using local tolers to also satisfy the manufacturing and servicing the customers. At present the unit is entirely closed. We don’t think it will be immediately usable. As the time passes, we’ll see how to rebuild it, where to rebuild it and other things. You would also read in our you results that we have filed for. Our statutory board auditors have already filed for a petition for liquidation of Europe. Naturally the blend. The continuing business of blends will continue though the entity will be closed because we’ll be shifting that business to our other other companies in Europe.
So we are not worried about the revenue of continuing business. But the good thing is that the cash burn which has been happening will certainly stop going forward. The plea with the court is scheduled on February 26. We will have more clarity. And as for the requirements, we’ll keep you updated on that. You would have seen that there were some few exceptional items also in this quarter as we acquired WinPy. The acquisition related cost, the due diligence cost and other thing had to be recognized which was around 3.69 crores which has been accounted obviously the new labor code.
We had aligned our salaries much earlier. So we were very near to 50%. And as you could see that even though we have around 800 employees in India, the impact is not high. Other aspect is that we have a very younger team workforce. Hence there is part service less. We have provided for all the required under the statute. What is to be provided already which is 2.25 crores. We also provided for an advanced loan which was a very old loan which we had given for some project which unfortunately we don’t think accounting provision is required.
But we still are will be trying to recover recovery so subject to that. The pat is has been impacted for this. And we have also shown the discontinued business which is mainly on account of Europe. It’s around 9 crores and some portion on China is also on the verge of liquidation. We have filed necessary documentation. We accept that it will move. The liquidation process will move before the end of this financial year. Going, remaining here and going forward. We feel that Binary needs the business. And the good thing is that already the duty has come down by 25% and very in near future it will come down.
Furthermore, blendscapes Blends has been doing. We have this inorganic acquisition of winpie which will certainly help us to grow our business at windpie. As well as those products we will be replicating and selling all over the world. So the blend business is going to keep on growing at the same pace as it was in the earlier period. Now we open the forum for questions.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and one on the Touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press Star and two participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Rushikesh Shah from Alchemy Capital. Please go ahead.
Hrushikesh Shah
Hello. Yeah, hi. Am I audible?
operator
Yes sir, you are. Please go ahead.
Hrushikesh Shah
Yeah, so my first question is currently I have vanillin realization at $12, right? And you mentioned that they may increase by 2 to $3. So according to me, let’s say your realization in US is $18. If it your tariffs move down by 25% then your realization should increase by $6. So where is the disconnect in this?
Santosh Parab
So the price in US is around $1819. That’s correct. But. But what comes from India was being 50% duty has to be paid. So to match the realizable value. Because there is a local manufacturer that’s always selling at 18 who doesn’t have the duty. If we have to match the price of 18, we have to bear the duty. As we used to transfer the material from here at $12. Pay the $56 duty which is cost to us and sell in the open market at $18. So that’s why the realization was $12. Now if the duty becomes 25, we will get that additional duty which we are paying to the government will help us increase our realization.
In another words, we’ll be selling it around 14. 14 and a half dollars. Pay the duty at 25% which will match the local price of $18.
Hrushikesh Shah
Okay, understood. And what is the volume guidance for FY27?
Nirmal Momaya
For FY27 we have both Missile Vanillin and Ethyl Vanillin. And our guidance for FY27 is between the two the total would be 4,000 metric tons.
Hrushikesh Shah
Okay, understood. And so I had one more question regarding when buy. What was the revenue for the full year for them? I know we have consolidated from December onwards. But just to get an idea.
Santosh Parab
12. 12 million 1. 12. Around 13 crores was their monthly which was which has been consolidated. But the turnover has been in the range of 12 and a half crores on a monthly basis till the third.
Hrushikesh Shah
Okay, understood. And sir, margins are down like 2, 4, 5% this quarter. So what do you think is a steady state margin that we can expect after we have Vanillin realizations going up and your volumes also increasing on vanillinside. So what are the kind of margins you expect? Gross margin as well as EBITDA margins from next year onwards? Hello.
Santosh Parab
Yeah, one sec. Yeah, okay. The gross margin as you said were impacted by the the trades business. As I said, the realization has come down almost. The sale price of tbh qbh as it is down by around $1. The cost remains the same. So that has impacted us. So the ebitda the gross margin which were. Which were. Which have have come come down because of the sale price decrease decrease. It was 46% in nine months quarter two which has come down. As from 46%. It has come down to 45.8% in this this quarter on operating revenues.
And this is mainly because of impact of states. And also the new acquisition of Blend also will take time to settle. So there is a cost is there? EBITDA margin has got impacted also because of the. Mainly because of freight. And we have sold lesser amount of volume in this year, which impacted the fixed cost on the Vanlin business. That’s why the there is a reduction of around 55 basis points on the EBITDA margin as compared to quarter two. So it was 7.3. It came to 6.7.
Nirmal Momaya
To answer your question, on next year, FY27, the gross margins should improve by at least a couple of percent. With higher realization of Vanillin as well as growth in the blends business, which is also depending on the product mix, there could be an improvement in margin. So our guidance is that we should improve the margin by 1 to 2%. It will be in the range of 46, 47%. And EBITDA margins, based on the growth that we are projecting in Vanlin and the blends business should improve and go to, you know, between 12 to 14%.
Hrushikesh Shah
Okay. And so we already are at 46% right now. So. And you are saying we’ll be at 46 to 47%. So. Yeah, so it should be higher than that, right? 48, 14 or something.
Nirmal Momaya
We are at 45 right now. We are 45. So we are 47.
Hrushikesh Shah
Okay, okay, understood. Thanks a lot. And once again, ebitda margins from 12 to 14%. Okay, understood. Thanks. Thanks a lot, sir.
operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Satish Kumar from Incred Equity. Please go ahead.
Satish Kumar
Hi, sir. So I just wanted to understand what is the duty right now in US? It is 25% or it is only 18%?
Nirmal Momaya
No, it is 25%. What is expected is once the trade deal is officially signed and announced. Right now only fact sheets and some other documents have been shared by both sides. But once it is finalized, it will come down to 18%.
Santosh Parab
But today, whatever has been cleared from India in US, whether it is in bond or coming from the ship, the duty is 25%. So the additional duty which was levied on 27th of August 2025 of 25% because of Russian oil that has been knocked out. But the first increase to 25% on 1st of August 2025 still remains. And that could come down after they signed the the treaty deal between India and West.
Satish Kumar
Okay, got it. And so the second question was that you were saying that we didn’t do some sales. So this quarter of Vanillin, so what was the quantity and of that?
Santosh Parab
So we will say that we would have pushed and sold another 200 tons. We went slow and tried to push it in the next quarter so that we, we get the, the Duty benefit. So we would have made around another 200 tons at 12 twelve and a half dollars.
Satish Kumar
Okay, got it, sir. And so. So the next quarter our sales vanillin sales should be in the range of what sir?
Nirmal Momaya
In volume.
Satish Kumar
Yes, sir.
Nirmal Momaya
Yeah. So what we are doing now is we are taking a campaign for ethyl vanillin. Starting next week we will start the production of ethyl vanillin which we expect by March we should be able to produce another 300 tonnes or so. And we produced another 300 tons of metals. We should be in the region of 600 plus tons.
Santosh Parab
Satish. To add to this we have a challenge to around 550 tons. That 150 is at $12. It is already committed. So another additional 200 tons is likely to be manufactured and sold. So you can just count that number.
Satish Kumar
Maybe around 700 tons kind of range, right sir,
Santosh Parab
it should be between 607 because half the quarter has gone Q4.
Satish Kumar
Got it. Thanks.
operator
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on the Touchstone telephone. Our next question comes from the line of Surya Narayan Patra from Philippe Capital India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Surya Narayan Patra
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir. First question is on the vanilla pricing. It looks like that both US as well as the Euro pricing currently look similar during the tariff period. So in the post tariff scenario if the US pricing is likely to see a rise. So whether we should expect similarly in the Europe also?
Nirmal Momaya
No, not in Europe. So Europe the anti dumping duty on Chinese material is 131%. Whereas on in the US it’s effectively with the tariff at about 265%. So there is a difference that Delta will remain the DDP prices today in US are 19, 19 and a half dollars GDP whereas in Europe that is around 15, 15 and a half dollars.
Surya Narayan Patra
Okay. And we will be in our realization would be slightly lower than the the other party.
Nirmal Momaya
Yes, right.
Surya Narayan Patra
And in US what is the price. Differential between the Italian with.
Nirmal Momaya
Typically the price difference is between one and a half to two dollars.
Surya Narayan Patra
Okay.
Nirmal Momaya
In the US that’s about $21 or so.
Surya Narayan Patra
Okay, sure. And second question is on the Winfrey and Vita 4 integration and way forward if you can just talk about it because this is a year of acquisition integration and some strategic plans about it. People addition, all that. So next year going ahead, how should one really think about those two business and that’s contribution to the overall blend.
Nirmal Momaya
Yes. So Vita 4 as you know is in the animal feed side of the business. After acquisition we’ve Got several registrations now for several of our products in many countries. So the push on beta 4 is going to be in the coming year in FY27 is to scale up from where we are currently at roughly 12 to 13 million euros top line to take it to about 17 to 18 million euro top line in the next financial year. So looking at at least a 40, 50% growth there. We’ve launched the product in the US market in Mexico and in the next quarter we are launching it in the Brazilian market as well as we’ve launched a product in the Indian market.
So wherever our own sales force is operating, we have launched these products. We are increasing our reach to the other parts of the world through various distributors and also some of them countries we are yet in registration process. So all of that will kind of start opening out in FY27.
Surya Narayan Patra
Okay.
Nirmal Momaya
And for Windpipe, the next one was on Windpipe which is doing about 10, about 11 million euros of top line in FY27 we look at again scaling that up by at least 40 to 50%. We’ve got several businesses in different parts of the world where our products have been approved by customers. Here of course there’s no registration, but here the approval process with customers and we’re pushing hard to see if we can grow it even faster than that. We’ve launched the product in India, we’ve launched the product in Mexico and Central America in Brazil. So wherever, you know, sales channels are there, we’ve started introducing these products.
Surya Narayan Patra
Okay, so this is the next question is about the, the, the base business, the antioxidant business in ingredients. So that is been seeing a kind of a continued competition announced either because of Indians or because of the Chinese. So the kind of a price pressure also that is a separate thing along with the crude. So given that, is it fair to believe that, okay, this is a kind of, this business is likely to see a kind of something like that if that is a continuing sentiment. So what is the utilization of the diaphanol plan that for next year?
Nirmal Momaya
So for diphenol plant for the next year we are basically we calibrate the diphenol based on catechol. Really it’s not so much the hydroquinone, it’s more the catechol. Because hydroquinone, even if we don’t do value addition with the antioxidant business, there are some opportunities in performance chemicals that we can do. But the idea is to, at this point of time we’re seeing the diphenol capacity we will run at similar as what we had in the current year. And there is enough outlay for us for HQ in the coming year because we have some contracts that we have signed also which will give us some volumes for selling hydroquinone and catechol.
Of course, Vanillin is the big outlet for us.
Surya Narayan Patra
Okay, just to clarification I wanted, sir, on. On this fire impact, is it. Is it? Or whether we are likely to see any kind of impact in the quarter. Although it is fully introduced, that is one. And secondly, are we getting any part of the liquidation processor?
Nirmal Momaya
No, sorry, go to the first part. I couldn’t. Your voice broke.
Surya Narayan Patra
Okay, so about any fire impact that we are likely to see in the upcoming quarter for Braz, although it is fully insured.
Nirmal Momaya
Yes. So that, I mean that we will have to see how the insurance process goes. We’re very difficult to predict right now whether there will be any impact and if so, what will be the impact at this point of time. It’s in fact, the access to the premises has not been allowed as yet by the fire department because they want to check the integrity of the structure and they don’t want any other mishaps to happen. So very, very early days to say whether there will be an impact and if there will be an impact, what that would be.
Surya Narayan Patra
No, it is not only the kind of a fire loss. Fire related loss, business loss, subsequent. In the. Subsequent.
Nirmal Momaya
So in the business loss. Not really. We have the blending unit which was our original bending unit. This was unit two, which was just commissioned right now for looking at the expanding numbers that we had. So. And in fact the. The incident happened with a brand new equipment also because that site was just being started out. So in terms of manufacturing, there is, there will not be so much of an impact for us if there is any shortfall because we have some new contracts that we are signing. So for which if there is a shortfall in capacity, we have contract manufacturing tie ups in place which we’ll be able to service.
Having said that, of course since the raw material was destroyed, we have to arrange for raw material immediately for servicing the business that we have on hand. And that possibly can have some impact on margin in Brazil for the short term, for the next one month or so till material which is on water will reach Brazil. I mean, already there’s a lot of material which has been shipped out in anticipation of all these contracts. So that. That should start hitting Brazil in the next 15 days. So there would be some, some impact. But we are trying to buy material locally and of course it will be more expensive than what we would have supplied from India or from Mexico.
But having said that, it’s only temporary for one month or so. There will be an impact on the margin, not on the top line. Top line will maintain.
Surya Narayan Patra
Okay. And any benefit that we are likely to see from the liquidation process.
Nirmal Momaya
Liquidation of Europe. Yeah, so. So no, in the. The benefit is really the cash fleet that was there. And then, you know, every quarter that we were taking a hit, once it goes into official liquidation, which by end of this month the tribunal or the court will have to decide. And if that is the case, then of course the entity gets dissolved into a liquidation entity and of course no other impact then will come to us.
Surya Narayan Patra
But any money realization out of the liquidation is not likely.
Nirmal Momaya
No, unlikely. Unlikely. At this point of time. Unlikely.
Surya Narayan Patra
Sure, sir. Yeah. Thank you sir. Wish you all the best.
operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Rehan from Coherent Wealth. Please go ahead.
Rehan Laljee
Hi, good evening. Thank you for taking my question. Am I audible to the management?
operator
Yes sir, you are. Please go ahead.
Rehan Laljee
Thank you. Just couple of questions. What would be the margin profile at EBITDA level or gross level for WINPA and the other acquisitions?
Santosh Parab
So Windpuy is really started as it was a stress asset we have bought. Windpie is just near breakeven on EBITDA. The breakeven should be at 15 crores. They have done 13 crores but at present they are just below the breakeven margin. But as the business grows, they will be not able to sell because there is no much access to the market which we have given. So it will generally go as the boss said. If it’s a 50% growth, it will certainly start giving the margins. But at this this point it’s almost EBITDA negative for a month.
Vaita 4 is already broke even as and has been making small 4 to 5%, 10 to 12% EBITDA. And I think it will go as the grow as it as we start increasing the business.
Rehan Laljee
Understood. And if you could just quantify the expense for WINPA acquisition, I think you mentioned about 3 to 4 crores on employee expense. On the other expense front we’ve seen a sharp jump of about 10 to 15 crores on a yearly basis, year on year basis. So and you mentioned, I think it is sustained. Any reason for such a sharp jump we’re seeing or is it only a one time because of the acquisition?
Santosh Parab
So it’s better to understand the Windpie acquisition. It’s better to compare it with last quarter. The increase in Other expenses are predominantly because of windpipe for a month. So naturally going forward Windpower had an general cost of around 3 and a half crores. 3 and a half to 4 crores on a monthly basis. So that that will come. That will be an increase in the next quarter. Similarly there is around when pies labor cost is also around 1 employee cost is around 1 1.5 to 2 crores per month. So that that also will increase. As far as other exposures from other other businesses are concerned, we don’t think there will be a increase.
Obviously there is a Brazil impact. If it comes that there could be some expenditure on that. But we don’t think the other business are going to increase. But in the next quarter, obviously my other expenses employee cost will increase because the entire three months it will come from winbacks.
Rehan Laljee
But that would be proportionately with the sales as well. Right. This quarter was only I think 30 days.
Santosh Parab
So it’s a 30 day 12 crores. The run rate is already 12 and a half crores. When they were under stress. Now we have come. We’ll be certainly improving the business. But looking at this coming quarter three, it’s a very short period. In three months you cannot. But I we think that we will do. We’ll keep maintain that run rate for the balance here.
Rehan Laljee
Understood. And so just a couple other question on Vanillin you have about 400 crores of stock You mentioned
Santosh Parab
400 metric, not 490.
Rehan Laljee
400 metric tons.
Santosh Parab
Yeah.
Rehan Laljee
And I last call we were gauging that we would see some kind of channel inventory easing off. Are you seeing that happening or are we still seeing a stuffed channel?
Nirmal Momaya
Sorry, what was your question?
Rehan Laljee
I think last quarter when you had the conference call and the quarter before that as well, you were seeing buildup of inventory because of the add and you gave that it would take couple of quarters before you know. You have a better insight as to how your demand scenario is going to pan out. Has there been liquid and consistently you guys have also been scaled which is extremely great in a tough time. But are you seeing a possibility for better tonnage going forward? I know you’ve given a guidance of 4,000, but I want to understand can we see European pricing move up to probably 14, $15?
Nirmal Momaya
The pricing will not move up. Pricing will remain in that region because the anti dumping duty effectively makes the Chinese product come in at $15. So that’s at DDP level. So which means at a net level it’s about $13. So we believe that prices in Europe will not go up. It’s only in the US where the tariff difference of 25% our margin will improve. And in terms of channel stocks, they are being liquidated. So that’s the reason why, you know, we think that we’ll be able to scale up our sales from around 2 and a half thousand tonnes this year.
2,320 400 to about 4,000 in the next year.
Rehan Laljee
Understood. And if I can just squeeze in one last question. Santoshi, could you just re explain that provisional for 11 crores that we’ve taken for this quarter?
Santosh Parab
No, the exceptional item.
Rehan Laljee
Yes, I think those 11. The PDD of 11. 11, 12 crores.
Santosh Parab
Yeah. Yeah. So there are the. There are three components. Acquisition related called labor cost. And we have also made a provision for a doubtful advanced loan which was given five to six years back. That was for anticipating a project. The project didn’t happen. And hence now because five years are gone, this is an accounting adjustment. We will be taking other actions to recover that.
Rehan Laljee
Understood. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on the touchstone telephone. Our next question comes from the line of Rohan Advant from Praj Capital. Please go ahead.
Rohan Advant
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, what was the vanilling tonnage in the first nine months of FY26? First. First nine months. Yes. 1740 metric tons. Okay. Okay. And sir, next year we plan to do 4000 tons. And even if we realize say $14 on an average that is revenue of 500 crores. In your comment on margins where you said the gross margin should be at 46, 47%. With vanillin scaling up and realizations improving, shouldn’t it add more to our margins. Or will the blends business face margin. Pressure and that’s why the margin improvement is likely to be lower.
Nirmal Momaya
The gross margin in the blends business typically is less than 45%. And we are going to grow the blends business by at least 20 to 25% next year. On a base of thousand crores we are looking at at least 1350 crores in the next year. So that’s why we are saying overall margin will average out at this price, this level.
Rohan Advant
Okay. So your revenue growth should be much higher because Vanillin will grow significantly and also the blends business.
Nirmal Momaya
Correct. Correct. That is the assumption.
Rohan Advant
Okay. And sir, on this 4,000 tons of, you know, guidance that you have for FY27, are you already have you, you know, committed offtake or you are waiting. For spot prices to maybe improve and get higher realizations? How Are you looking at that offtake and how confident are you of 4,000 tonnes?
Nirmal Momaya
So I mean in this environment we have done 2400. So with large amount of channel stock lying pre anti dumping duty in anticipation there. So our assessment is that the market will open up. We are not rushing in for any contracts because even customers are looking at quarterly contracts as opposed to longer one because they don’t know how long this channel stocks will remain. So I think our sense and our estimation comes from the fact that given all the adverse situations that in FY26 with channel stocks being emptied out to grow it by about 50, 60% from where we were is very likely.
Rohan Advant
Understood. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for taking my question.
operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Neeraj Mansingha from White Pine Investment Management Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Niraj Mansingka
So just wanted to clarify. If right now the prices in the US is $19 and if we have a 25% tariff, we’ll get a realization of $15, is it right?
Nirmal Momaya
Yeah, about 14 and a half or so. Because there is also local, local freight and things. This is duty paid.
Niraj Mansingka
And if the. If the tariff goes to 18%, our realization would be 15 and a half or so, right?
Nirmal Momaya
Correct. Correct, correct.
Niraj Mansingka
And. And this does not. And there can be so. And you said that the potential of price increase in Europe is lesser than US because US has much higher tariff and it’s not adjusted to that level. The dumping duty, is it right that US is 19 and if you assume 265% it comes to $23 plus. If I assume. I’m just assuming 6 and a half dollars in China.
Nirmal Momaya
In China 6 and a half dollars will come to $23. That is right.
Niraj Mansingka
Okay, so there is still. There’s still $4 upside in the price of Vanillin if there’s a peripassu. The way the Europe is trading.
Nirmal Momaya
Okay, yeah.
Niraj Mansingka
And sir, if. If the tariff is. The detail is signed today. So then your realization will go up immediately, right?
Nirmal Momaya
Correct.
Niraj Mansingka
Okay. Then why are you saying that we’ll be realizing less value for next year? Because there’s a very high possibility of that’s being signed also, right?
Nirmal Momaya
Yes, yes, of course. But till it is time it is not signed. We were waiting for this reduction of from 50 to 25 for the last six months. So I mean, I can’t predict that 25% and work on that basically and.
Niraj Mansingka
On these stocks, please. I could not fall every apology for that. You have 400. Sorry. You have a guidance of 700 tons for Q4, am I right? And, and of that 700 tons, how much will be at 15. Sorry, 14 and a half dollars. And how much would be at that? The 12 and a half.
Nirmal Momaya
So I would say the U.S. will have out of 700 tons. About 350 to 400 tons will be in the U.S. which will be at a higher realization. And in Europe is. Is at the same realization.
Niraj Mansingka
Europe stabilization is 15, 14 and a half dollars.
Nirmal Momaya
12 and a half dollars. What we are getting today. Yeah.
Niraj Mansingka
Okay. What about. So, okay, so. And is it right to assume the similar ratio would be there for FI27 for the entire 4,000 tons?
Nirmal Momaya
Yeah, it will be 60% in the US and 40% in Europe.
Niraj Mansingka
Okay, got it. And so how much was the Brazilian value of the stock that you were carrying which got fire.
Nirmal Momaya
The stock value was about 20, 24 crores. 16 million vi. So how much is that in rupees?
Niraj Mansingka
Okay, 16 million. Okay.
Nirmal Momaya
Yeah.
Niraj Mansingka
16 crores. And. And okay. And this was on this. Yeah. So. And so what is the guidance on the. The new plant of the competition starting in the Van der. Can you give some color on that? I think the US Plant was supposed. To start for the vanilla.
Nirmal Momaya
The. Yeah. In Europe actually. The European plant.
Niraj Mansingka
Yeah. Yes.
Nirmal Momaya
So that, that. Yeah, so that. Of course that will start now, soon. And so the total market, as we’ve said earlier that between Europe and US is about 16,000 tons. And the two plants in US and Europe put together have a capacity of 10. So there’s a gap of 6,000 tons which needs to be filled, which we expect that hopefully we should be able to fill at least 80% of that.
Niraj Mansingka
Got it. Before.
Santosh Parab
Yes. Sorry to interject. I’ll just correct the numbers because on the Brazilian loss by fire, total loss at the book value is at 33 crores. Out of. Out of that, 28 crores is inventory. He told 16 million. That is Brazilian real. The Indian rupee is 28 crores and around 4 and a half crores of machine and equipment. So it’s total 30, 32.7 crores.
Niraj Mansingka
Got it. So if there’s a delay in the insurance, then you’ll. Is it possible you will write off next quarter and write back whenever you recover? Get that amount?
Santosh Parab
That’s an accounting thing. How the insurance companies look at, look at it. We are confident when. Do you know how the insurance company. There are cuts and things. If the insurance claim is finalized and there is no dispute, we may end up recognizing that shortfall in the next quarter. But it’s not not at all determinable at this stage because the surveys have not even entered the that factory side.
Niraj Mansingka
Got it sir. And so just I think you said about the channel stock, do you have a any clarity on because the US pricing will only go up to 23 once the channel stock is totally liquidated. So any color on that side?
Nirmal Momaya
No, I think it is more driven by what our competitor in US does in terms of pricing. So if we, since they are the leaders there and they define the price, we just follow in that sense the price will be really defined by them currently this is the price that they’ve defined. And as the channel stocks do come down, they will probably increase it by a dollar or so. I don’t think they will take it to match it to the anti dumping duty impact. They’ll keep it just below that.
Niraj Mansingka
Understand the last question on the China and the Europe cost which were for the factories which are shut down. What is it? What was the run rate last quarter and what will be the current rate in say Q1 of next year?
Nirmal Momaya
In Q1 of next year as I mentioned earlier, we’ll be in by end of this month. There will be a ruling on the liquidation. And if it goes into liquidation then there is no impact to us on our on our balance sheet on a running cost basis. And even China is the same by end of this quarter that will also go into liquidation or winding up. So our estimate is next year we should not have any significant impact.
Niraj Mansingka
And what was the impact for Q3?
Santosh Parab
So Q3 was 8 crores on discontinued business of Europe and a crore rupees on a quarter of China. Both of these. If it the plea for liquidation is expected accepted then Prorata will not have any cost from February on Europe because it instead go into liquidation. As far as China is concerned there is a different process. So we may have to bear 1 crore expenditure in in the coming quarter and maybe another crore in the in the next quarter.
Niraj Mansingka
So after, after Q2 Q3 of 27, your cost will become zero. Which cost run rate is today?
Santosh Parab
In this, this. This year itself. In the next quarter China will be there. Euro. The hearing with the tribunal or the court is on February 26. The plea is accepted and given then the bleed stops immediately because liquidation then it goes to the liquidator. Liquidator becomes the operator of the company. We’re out. So if it doesn’t happen course may take their own time, a few months it’s at least so it’s very fast. But they may take a few months. In that case the Control remains with us and we may face that cash bleed of 7,8 croresNextNext quarter. Also on Europe, China has a 1 crore run rate of bleed because we had to keep some people there to look after the proceedings of liquidation.
We may end up a crore rupees of bleed for two more quarters.
Niraj Mansingka
Got it. So our run rate after this goes down, the China and the Europe, the EBITDA will improve by 9 crores per quarter.
Santosh Parab
Present. At present, this bleed is not shown in operational. It’s shown as a discontinued business. I don’t. I know it’s more cash. So how you react EBITDA is. If it is net of that then there’s no impact.
Niraj Mansingka
Great. Thank you. Thank you very much for the information.
operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Chaita Doshi from Incorrect Capital. Please go ahead.
Chaitya Doshi
Hello. Thank you sir, for taking my question.
operator
Can you speak a little louder?
Chaitya Doshi
Hello, Is it audible now?
operator
Yes, sir, Please go ahead.
Chaitya Doshi
Hello, Is it audible now?
operator
Yes. Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
Chaitya Doshi
Yeah, so have we got FSSAI approval for essential 4001. Hello.
Nirmal Momaya
Sorry.
Chaitya Doshi
Hello.
Nirmal Momaya
Yes.
Chaitya Doshi
Have we got FFS AI approvals?
Nirmal Momaya
No.
Chaitya Doshi
Okay. And what is the status of selling Vincurd in Indian market?
Nirmal Momaya
Yeah, so there is a potential. So we are working on that.
Chaitya Doshi
Okay. Okay.
Nirmal Momaya
So it’s basically the market is large. I mean the cheese market is growing in India. And Vincurd is a product which goes into manufacturing cheese. And so the process is of course these are all processing aids. So most producers don’t really need to get FSSCI because we are FSSCI approved. But the product doesn’t need to be because it’s not part of labeling. So that’s a question of interpretation. So I mean that’s something that is in the pipeline.
Chaitya Doshi
Okay. Okay. And sir, so what would be the overall take on vanillin sales for FY27? Guidance. And what would be your value growth?
Nirmal Momaya
No, we’ve already given that.
Chaitya Doshi
Okay. And guidance for blends.
Nirmal Momaya
For blends also, we’ve given that 25% growth over FY26.
Chaitya Doshi
Okay, thank you, sir.
operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Shikhar Mundra from Vivio Commercial Limited. Please go ahead.
Shikhar Mundra
For the company as a whole, what kind of revenue guidance are we targeting given for the next couple of years?
Nirmal Momaya
27 and 28. So 27, we should be looking at about 2200. 2200. Yeah.
Shikhar Mundra
Okay. And for 28,
Nirmal Momaya
that would be about 2400.
Shikhar Mundra
And. And it’s considered as of now.
Nirmal Momaya
Sorry.
Shikhar Mundra
Considering similar prices as of 2200 is. Considering similar prices as now the products.
Nirmal Momaya
Yes.
Shikhar Mundra
Okay. And, and what kind of capex are we looking to put in for the next couple of years?
Santosh Parab
So at present no new new plants. There is a maintenance capex which keeps on coming because of the big plants which we have. So we have a capex maintenance capex of around 40 to 50 crores on an annual basis. But at this moment we have not any capex plan approved or otherwise.
Shikhar Mundra
Okay, so, so the kind of debt. Levels we have, so these are kind. Of peak debt levels
Santosh Parab
we may require if I’m going to increase my revenues.
Shikhar Mundra
I mean the long term borrowings. So these, these are nothing on cards.
Santosh Parab
Nothing on cards. These, these are being repaid and they will go on as around for 40 to 50 crore which is repaid every year.
Shikhar Mundra
So I mean I want to understand. For as a company as a whole there are so many moving parts. You know there’s a Vanillin then there are blend. So if the Vanillin prices rise, the. Blend prices are falling. So I mean something or the other is pulling our performance, you know, down. So how, how should we look at it?
Nirmal Momaya
I mean very difficult to answer that question. Our blend prices are not falling. Our margins in the blends are quite stable. Gross margins are not falling. It’s only in the straights business, which is the TBHQ BHA business where the margins have fallen in this year and Manila the gross margin remains stable.
Shikhar Mundra
Got it, Got it. Thank you. Thank you and all the best.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints we take that as the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Ashish Dandekar
Ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for participating in this conference call. We look forward to interacting with you at the next end of next of this quarter. Until then, good day. Good evening.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of Camlin Fine Sciences Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.