Bansal Wire Industries Ltd (NSE: BANSALWIRE) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 21, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Darshan Mankad — Senior Account Director
Pranav Bansal — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Ghanshyam Das Gujrati — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Prateek Singh — Analyst
Vineet Naran — Analyst
Akash Vora — Analyst
Shweta Dikshit — Analyst
Mayank Bhandari — Analyst
Vidit Trivedi — Analyst
Jay Vaghasiya — Analyst
Prakhar Khajanchi — Analyst
Depesh Kashyap — Analyst
Hiten Boricha — Analyst
Praful Kumar — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q4 and FY25 conference call of Bansal Wire Industries Limited. From the management we have Mr. Pranav Bansal, MD and CEO and Mr. Ghansham Gujarati, CFO to take the discussion forward. We also have an investor relation team from Agfactor. As a reminder all participant line will be in listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask question after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on your touch tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Darshan Mankad from Afactors PR for opening remarks. Thank you. And over to you sir.
Darshan Mankad — Senior Account Director
Thank you Riha. Good morning everyone. We welcome you to the fourth quarter. And full financial year ended March 31st, 2025 earnings call of Bansal Wire Industries Limited. Before we begin, please note that certain remarks made today may constitute forward looking statements subject to inherent risks and uncertainties concerning our future financial and operational performance. We thank you for your patience in. The event of any technical disruptions and. We assure you we will endeavor to restore the connection swiftly. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Pranav Bansal, MD and CEO for his opening comments. Over to you sir.
Pranav Bansal — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Thank you Darshan. Good morning everyone and welcome to the earnings call for the fourth quarter and the full year ended March 31st, 2025. I am delighted to connect with you all again to share and discuss our operational and financial for January to March quarter. The results, earning release and investor presentations are available on our website and stock exchanges. We believe you had a chance to go through it.
I’m joined by Mr. Gansham Das Gujarati, our CFO who will take you through the financials. In details post my remarks. So the last year has been a landmark period for us showcasing exceptional performance driven by strong demand across core sectors such as automotive in construction and engineering. This year also marked the commencement of production in our specialty wire vertical featuring high value added products like bead wire, hose wire and steel tire cord. With a robust market opportunity ahead, we now have a total installed capacity of 5 and a half lakh tonnes per annum. This strategic expansion positions us to capitalize on the growing demand while continuing to deliver superior quality solutions to our customers.
We are confident that this enhanced capability will further strengthen our market presence and unlock new growth opportunities. Especially with an additional 1:20,000 tonnes of capacity which is Scheduled to be commissioned by the end of second quarter of FY26. Following the introduction of our new products, the company has achieved a 69% overall capacity utilization for the year. This includes the DADRI facility and remains on track to reach an even higher utilization by the end of this fiscal year. With our total production capacity set to reach 6.8 lakh tonnes. We have also improved our product mix, contributing to better margins and reinforcing our commitment to value driven sustainable growth.
As we begin the next year, we remain optimistic about our growth trajectory and are confident in continued progress of Bunsil wire industry as well as the broader advancement of our nation. While challenges such as fluctuating raw material prices and geopolitical uncertainties persist, we see immense opportunity in both domestic and the international market. Our unwavering focus on operational excellence, quality and sustainability continues to position us as a trusted partner in India’s journey towards modernized infrastructure and global competitiveness. With that, I would like to now hand over the call to our CFO Mr. Kancha. Thank you.
Ghanshyam Das Gujrati — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you sir. Thank you. Good morning friends. Now I shall share the summary of fourth quarter and full year financial performance with you. For quarter four financial 25 our UN group 33% year on is year 2940 crores. EBITDA surged 59% Y and Y to 75 crore and net profit for the quarter stood is 33 crore up by 36% year on year basis for financial at 25 revenue is 283507 crores higher by 42%. EBITDA growth at 86% to 278 crore while net profit jumped to 95% to 146 crore. I am happy to report that EBITDA and net profit margin for the quarter 4 expanded by 130 basic point and 10 basic point on year.
On year terms we will now open for forum. Forum.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Pratik Singh from Dam Capital. Please go ahead.
Prateek Singh
Hey. Hi Pranav. Congrats. What a good set of numbers. Just the first question is largely on volume. So if you can guide us as to what kind of volumes we did in Q4 and full year of this Year. And if you can also help us with the breakup for both these numbers in low carbon, high carbon stainless. That’s the first question.
Pranav Bansal
So for the full year we did about 3,44,000 tonnes of volume. Whereas in the fourth quarter we did about 97,98,000 tons in total. As far as the segment wise breakup is concerned we do not disclose those numbers today. But we will try and fetch you some details later.
Prateek Singh
Sure. And any guidance on the next year volumes, how would we think?
Pranav Bansal
So I think right now where we stand the demand looks good. We have a good capacity installed and more coming our way. So I do not believe that there is any reason we should not be able to grow at about 20, 20, 30% for the year in volumes.
Prateek Singh
And what kind of confidence do you have to maintain the kind of margins that we did this year? Because this year was a super year in terms of margins. Given that you are growing volumes would we be able to maintain these margins going ahead?
Pranav Bansal
So sir, this year there was a mix of two things that helped us grow our margins. One was a superior product mixed which happened because we did not have a lot of volume to sell in the lower EBITDA margin business which for the year 2526 we would have a good quantity in even the lower EBITDA business. So our product portfolio or our product mix will be changing in 26. Therefore if we grow at let’s say 20 or 30% in volumes we are not expecting to grow at the same pace in EBITDA as well. Therefore our margins might reduce or nominalize, you know, this year.
Pranav Bansal
Understood. And just last question before I join back with you. If you can just elaborate on the status about hose wire and steel codes where we are. And Also on this 1.8 lakh ton steel plant that we are doing in Gujarat.
Pranav Bansal
Sure sir. So steel cord. Our samples have already reached some of our customers. And till now everything looks positive. I think we remain on track to start our production very soon. As far as Hosewire is concerned, Hosewire has. Has been doing good. We are seeing very good and positive reactions from our customers. We are waiting for a couple of more approvals which will come shortly in the next one one and a half month wherein we should be able to then ramp up our capacities very quickly. As of now we are operating at 20, 25% capacity utilization.
Prateek Singh
Thanks Pranav. And all the best.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vineet from Investech. Please go ahead.
Vineet Naran
Hi. Hi Pranav. Good morning. Pranav, a couple of questions. One is considering that we’ve already done almost 1 lakh tonnes in this quarter and given you are guiding for 25 30% growth volume growth for the next full year. Even if we annualize this 1 lakh ton run rate we we should be able to achieve broadly our guidance. So don’t you think this guidance is slightly on the conservative side?
Pranav Bansal
So sir, we believe, you know to be a little conservative whenever committing you a number. It’ll be better if I am able to achieve a higher number than I commit. So my guidance would remain the same. 2030%. Of course there are opportunities wherein we should be able to grow at a higher pace. But I think 2030% is a good number and a safe number to consider.
Vineet Naran
Okay. Okay. Pranav, second thing was on inventories which is which has gone up this year. Any comment on that? What was the reason for it? Or is it the case where we have stocked up much more in anticipation of demand or some of deliveries could not happen?
Pranav Bansal
Sure sir. So here I think there are two or three different factors here. First, we have done complete consolidation of all our group companies in the last year. Therefore the inventories of all the companies are now in Bansalwai. You will see a higher number therein. Second, we are operating today out of six different locations. Because the two older entities have not completed completely stopped manufacturing all this. The sales are stopped from those entities. But the manufacturer still manufacturing is still there in the name of Bansalwire. Therefore, we are having to keep inventories in six different locations over the course of this year.
That should come back to a nominal level.
Vineet Naran
Understood? Understood. Pranavan, if you can throw some light on factoring which we were thinking about for receivables. What’s the status there? Are we planning to start with it this year? How are you thinking about it?
Pranav Bansal
So sir, our limits are already tied up. We in fact started using some of it in the fourth quarter as well. But most of the limits are tied up for us to be using in the first and second quarter of this year. So that is all in place. Due to which we will be able to see a better working capital cycle in the company. And this will start from the first quarter itself.
Vineet Naran
Understood? Understood. And Pranav, lastly before I move back to the queue, Stainless steel rod. We’ve announced CAPEX now plans there. How will that will happen? Is it a case that the whole facility including the wires and the steel rod manufacturing will commence by September 27th? Or it will happen in a phased manner wherein some part of it will get commissioned earlier and Some. Some later.
Pranav Bansal
Sir, we are expecting the wire facility to be commissioned maybe a quarter before the steel manufacturing. So in the third quarter is when we expect the commission the commencement of our backward integration. But in the second quarter we should see some numbers from the wire facility. So stainless steel and low carbon will start before that.
Vineet Naran
Okay. And if I’m not wrong this is Q2 or Q3 of FY28.
Pranav Bansal
Yes, absolutely.
Vineet Naran
Understood. Understood. Thanks. Thanks Prana for this. Thank you.
Pranav Bansal
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vidit Trivedi from Asian Market Securities. Please go ahead. We got disconnected from Mr. Trivedi. Next question is from the line of Mr. Akash from Dalal and Brocha. Please go ahead.
Akash Vora
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity and some great set of numbers. So firstly sir, I’d like to understand why have our gross margins dipped this quarter from around 23 odd percent last quarter to 21%.
Pranav Bansal
So that would be some fluctuation in raw material. But even that, I mean not a big number for us.
Akash Vora
Okay. Sir, what kind of utilizations we have achieved at Dadri currently? I mean what scale are we operating at?
Pranav Bansal
So sir, we.
Pranav Bansal
In the fourth quarter we’ve done about 25, 30% more output as compared to third quarter. So. And I think the last month we closed at about 40% utilization. In the other.
Akash Vora
Okay, so we have achieved 40% utilization.
Pranav Bansal
Yes.
Akash Vora
Great. And my second question was to understand from. You know, from an industry standpoint. From the end user industry. I mean I think this year we have. We have seen great demand coming from infrastructure and general engineering. Right. Apart from automotive of course. So I mean going forward which industries do you feel will contribute more and more? For us?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, I think we are pretty much. We are very diversified when it comes to end user industries. So therein we are not really dependent on one specific industry for our growth. But I mean just to give you a perspective I think automotive, cable, infra, general engineering. These have always been the major contributors of our growth. And that will continue even this year.
Akash Vora
Sir, we have started LRPC virus already or did it start?
Pranav Bansal
We’ve commissioned the facility. We are right now waiting for some BIS approval to start selling to all our customers. So which should be with us in the next 10, 15 days.
Akash Vora
Understood. I’ll come back in the view.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shweta Dixas from Systematics group. Please go ahead.
Shweta Dikshit
Yes. Hi. Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is regarding what is a steady state capacity utilization to assume for the new capacity Coming in. Because if I look at the run rates as of now on a full year basis the capacity comes to around capacity utilization comes to around 63%. But if I analyze the fourth quarter number we are already at 71% capacity utilization. So what is the level that we can look at to improve the existing capacity utilization? Also once we commission the new capacity new 1,20,000 tons by the end of second quarter, how much utilization can be achieved within FY26 on that volume?
Pranav Bansal
Sure, ma’ am. So historically we have been able to achieve 89, 90% kind of a capacity utilization. And I don’t see any reason why we should not be able to do it even in the new facility if not higher. And of course we have another 1.2 lakh tonnes which is to be commissioned in the next two quarters which will have. Which will give us enough room to grow quarter on quarter. As I said for the full year we are expecting about 20 to 30% kind of a volume growth if everything remains as it is. So I think you know the capacity is there for us to consume.
Shweta Dikshit
And any sense on what kind of EBITDA margin we can expect going forward. Because on a per tank basis we are currently at around 7,600. But for the full year it the average is around 8,000 rupees per ton. So we have already seen little bit of softness in EBITDA per ton this quarter. So is this the reduction we should estimate for FY26 or there can be a further reduction in our EBITDA per ton.
Pranav Bansal
So ma’ am, historically our strategy has been that one year we play on higher volume and the next year we try to maintain a growth rate with an increased ebitda. So last year has been a year where we’ve been able to increase our ebitda. This year we are looking at as a year where we might reduce our margin a bit but increase our volume so that by FY27 we again come back to this kind of EBITDA with a higher base of volume therein we would see some slight reduction in EBITDA for sure. If we are able to gain 2030% volume growth.
I would believe that another 10% reduction in EBITDA would be possible.
Shweta Dikshit
From the 4Q exit that we saw. Right?
Pranav Bansal
Yes. Yes.
Shweta Dikshit
Okay. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Mayank Bhandari from Asian Market Securities. Please go ahead.
Mayank Bhandari
Thanks for the opportunity. What would be your capex in FY26 and 27?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, we have announced one major capex that is the backward integration wherein we are putting up a 1.8 lakh ton capacity to making our own wire outs and other 60,000 capacity. So for this we are looking at about 600 crores of total investment. That’s the main capex that we are looking at as of now. Apart from that whenever as and when we get good orders in specialty wire we would be also looking at expanding in a greenfield plant for specialty.
Mayank Bhandari
So this 600 crore is evenly split in 2627.
Pranav Bansal
Yes, 2627. We will see majority of this happening in 26 and some of it is will be in 27.
Mayank Bhandari
So how are we going to fund this 600 crore if it’s happening in 26? Because our cash position is little not.
Pranav Bansal
Helpful at this moment in terms of fundraising. Even on cash flows we have actually been able to go towards cash flow positivity this year. The last quarter We’ve seen only 2020 crores of reduction in cash flows. Wherein we started with about 100 crore reduction. And looking at the factoring and all these optimizational benefits in our working capital we should be able to turn towards cash flow positivity within the first quarter of FY26. With this being said, after our IPO we also reduce our debt significantly. Our total debt to equity ratio from 1.5 has come down to 0.5.
So we we can leverage our books with some kind of debt going forward. And we we also have a lot of good cash flows that we are expecting in this year and the next year. Even if you look at the last year we did about 2270 to 80 crores of EBITDA. And even with reduced margins but we will be growing our volumes by 2030%. So we are expecting a higher EBITDA this year and the year after that. Therefore a mix of internal cash accruals and some amount of debt we will be able to do this project.
Mayank Bhandari
And about the export opportunities, like what is the export contribution in this FY27 revenue?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, I do not have those numbers with me. Maybe can you comment on this?
Ghanshyam Das Gujrati
Around 350 crores.
Pranav Bansal
So about 10% of hiring.
Mayank Bhandari
Okay, thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Heman Soni, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you for providing me the opportunity. But sir, sorry to say but not. Very happy with the results. Because I was expecting a better number considering the ramp up of the Dadri plant. So coming down to my questions, I have couple of questions. First of all the entire capacity of the other is available right now. And the second question is sir, we had earlier guided for 5 lakh tons of sales volume in FY26 in a media interview. Now we are giving a lower guidance. And one more thing I wanted to ask is that 1.2 lakh tons the expansion is over and above the 5.5 currently.
Pranav Bansal
Sure. So sir, right now we are at about 3 lakh tons of capacity in Daddari. Another 0.5 lakh tons is to be commissioned maybe within the next one month. And after that we are also looking at an additional 60,000 tons of capacity. So about another 0.6, 0.7 lakh tons of capacity to be commissioned by the quarters the second quarter. So Dadri from 3 lakh will go to about 4.2 lakhs in the next two quarters. That is one as far as the capacity or the sales guidance for the next year goes. We have already done a good growth this year.
And the next year also does not see. We see a good demand for the year after this as well. Therefore our 20 30% guidelines, although they might seem a little conservative I think are good guidelines for the first for the first year. But yes, there is definitely an opportunity for us to grow at a higher rate.
Unidentified Participant
So sir, the current capacity as of now including The Dadri is 5.5 Lakht. Correct?
Pranav Bansal
Absolutely, sir.
Unidentified Participant
And another 0.5 lakh tons will be added in the next month June and.
Pranav Bansal
Then 1.2 lakh tons, 1.2 lakh tons in total will be added in the next two quarters.
Unidentified Participant
1.2 lakh tons. So it will take the entire capacity to 6.7, right?
Pranav Bansal
Absolutely.
Unidentified Participant
So the entire 5.5 is available right now, right?
Pranav Bansal
Yes sir.
Unidentified Participant
What is the blended capacity utilization?
Pranav Bansal
Blended capacity utilization I think for the full year was about 69%.
Unidentified Participant
I’m talking about the fourth quarter, sir.
Pranav Bansal
Fourth quarter.
Pranav Bansal
I do not have the numbers now but you can connect with Mr. Gansham and he will give you the details later.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, are we expecting some sort of improved capacity utilization in quarter one?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, we are definitely expecting some better numbers every quarter herein. First quarter for our industry generally. Generally is a little slow because of labor shortages throughout the northern part. But I think from the second quarter is where you will see better ramp up happening.
Unidentified Participant
Even I was expecting better numbers in quarter four actually given the ramp up of the diary plant. But a little disappointed with because there was no Q and Q growth.
Ghanshyam Das Gujrati
Actually I would say that. I would add one more point that you might have seen that our working capital has been utilized and the capitalization has already Also been done during this quarter. And because of all these things that EBITDA is our higher. But due to these two factors that our the profit has gone come down. I would love to add to the performance, but.
Pranav Bansal
No problem, sir. We’ll try to deliver you better results in the coming quarters.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Yashvi from Molecule. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Am I audible?
Pranav Bansal
Yes, ma’ am.
operator
Yes, ma’ am.
Unidentified Participant
Morning sir. My question is regarding the consolidation of the associate companies. So from what I understand and we have consolidated two companies which is Bunsil Steel and Power and bwi. But we still have two lease agreements with Bunsil High Carbon Private Limited and Balaji Wires. So are we planning to consolidate these two entities as well or what is the scenario there?
Pranav Bansal
So ma’ am, in the last year we have actually consolidated all sales for these two entities. Also only the manufacturing still remains because the ADRI is not fully available in terms of operational capacity. As and when we are able to ramp up in the adri, those capacities that we are operating in, Balaji and Bansal High Carbon will shut down. This should happen within this year. But again, with that being said, all revenue and EBITDA is already part of bansalwai.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, and my second question is, you are saying that the EBITDA margins next year shall dip due to the volume growth you’re expecting, which is 20 to 30% growth. But as we’re adding the specialty wires, don’t you expect a margin spike instead? As we’re also doing bid wires, horse wires and steel cords and IHT and ohty. So why are you expecting a margin dip and how does the volume affect the margins?
Pranav Bansal
So these products that we’ve added, for example steel cord, hose wire, these are products which have a long drawn approval process. Although that approval process has started. But it will take us a year to, you know, see good ramp up happening in steel cord specifically, which will increase our EBITDA. Therefore, for FY26, we do not see a lot of benefit coming from specialty wire vertical FY27. However, we should see some good numbers happening coupled with backward integration that will happen in the later part of 27. I think our EBITDA should be coming back to normal by in 27.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, so specialty shall show up in the numbers in FY27 and not the next year. Am I correct there?
Pranav Bansal
Yes.
Unidentified Participant
Okay. And so you also add up the capacities for the steel code once you are done with the sampling and getting the approvals and then you will look Forward for Capex in that segment. Okay. Okay. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vidit Trivedi from Asian Market Securities. Please go ahead.
Vidit Trivedi
Hello. Hello. Hi, sir. Morning. Most of the questions have been answered. Just wanted to check. Have we gained any market share during the financial year?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, although I do not have the right details with me. But just to give you a small understanding. As per our understanding of the industry the industry grows at about 6% 7% every year. Whereas we have grown at about 35% in revenue. And we would have definitely outgrown the industry in volumes as well. So therefore there would definitely be an increase in market share which has been the case throughout. Even in the last 10 years, you know we’ve been growing at 20, 25%. Whereas the industry grows at 6, 7%. So every year we grab market share.
Vidit Trivedi
Got it. I’m sorry, I dropped off the call. What’s the capacity utilization in Dadri?
Pranav Bansal
Capacity utilization by the end of. By the last month of this year was at 40%.
Vidit Trivedi
Got it, sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of J. Vagasia from Patel Equities. Please go ahead.
Jay Vaghasiya
Yeah, so. Hi, Pranavji. So just wanted to make sure. We are doing 600 crore expansion. So how are we going to fund it? Because CFOs are negative. So have you achieved financial closure? Any details you could give on that?
Pranav Bansal
So sir, as I. As I previously mentioned we are already going towards positive cash flows. And I think from the first quarter of next year you will see our cash flows coming in from our operations activity. So that will really help us in funding this capacity expansion in the next two years. So. And even at EBITDA front we see some growth happening every year. Therefore at 270, 280 crores of EBITDA that we did last year we are expecting something better in 26 and 27.
That coupled with a bit of debt we should be able to manage this backward integration.
Jay Vaghasiya
No? But again the problem is Pranaj, it is receivable days. So is it pretty standard or are we on the higher side in receivable days as compared to industry? Your thoughts?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, we have been at this kind of a level throughout you know, many years and been able to grow at 20, 25%. But yes, definitely this is something that we are improving on. And from 1Q26 itself you will see some change happening. We will go towards positive cash flows and also better ROC. Although we’ve closed this year at about 19%. Our quarter four specific ROC was 21%.
So as we guided earlier as well, we want to remain at above 20% kind of a number in ROC and positive cash flows is what you will see. The whole and last question is once the Sanon comes online, would it help us in reducing our inventory? Because now being a backward integrated, would it help us to any extent or it is just for security of our raw materials? Integration would help us in two different ways. First, it will help us in securing our raw material. And in some areas we are not able to grow because of raw material availability.
So that will really help us. Second, it will help us in expanding our margin profile dip in our margins this year. But by FY28 we will come back to the 25 margin numbers. Because of this backward integration inventories it will not be reduced because any inventory that we carry in raw metal we will carry in wire rods. We will carry in the raw material for backwards integration.
Jay Vaghasiya
Got it? Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Prakhar Kajanji from Anandrati. Please go ahead.
Prakhar Khajanchi
Hello. Hi pr. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations. On a set of good set of number. I have just one question. Could you please share the capacity breakup between stainless steel, low carbon and high carbon?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, we do not disclose segment wise numbers or capacities. Overall our capacity was at 5.6 lakh tons. Majority of it I could say is low carbon. And then would be high carbon and stainless steel.
Prakhar Khajanchi
And what kind of EBITDA patterns we can like, you know, see for this year going on.
Pranav Bansal
So sir, the last year we did about 8,000 rupees of EBITDA and the quarter four we were at 7,600 rupees a ton which should reduce slightly because of the product mix and you know grabbing higher market share this year.
Prakhar Khajanchi
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Dipesh from Invesco. Please go ahead.
Depesh Kashyap
Yeah. Hi Pranav, thanks for taking the question. Can you just highlight because of consolidation we are little confused but like for like volume growth as a group. What was the volume that you saw in FY25?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, I think we did about 15% roughly volume growth. But for the exact numbers we can get you.
Depesh Kashyap
No, this is fine. So 15% kind of a growth. Now I just want you to understand like you’re guiding around 25, 30% kind of volume growth. And you also say that industry is growing at 6, 7%. So is there any much opportunity in India given our market share that we can grow at this rate? Consistently going forward or export to your big part of the growth in the future.
Pranav Bansal
So sir, historically we have been able to manage a 20 25% growth. Although this happens where in one year we try to increase our margins and maybe increase our volume by 10 15%. But the next year we try to increase our volume by 2030% while reducing our margins a little bit. And the next year again we try to stabilize our margins. So therefore even the, even the last year has been a year where we’ve improved our margins significantly while only growing at 1015% in volume. But 26 would be a year where we will sacrifice our margins a bit to grab a higher market share.
Depesh Kashyap
But when you sacrifice your margins and you take the volume from others, like do they also. Like they have to also react, right? So when the industry is not growing, that’s what I want to understand because 2025% growth in industry which is going at 7%. How is it possible?
Pranav Bansal
So sir, the good thing is that we are part of an industry in which being the second largest steel wire company today, we still only have 67% market share. So therein we believe that there is room for one more bansal wire every year. So we are not honestly taking away any quantities from them, but we would like to think of it as, you know, getting the additional quantity that the market is growing at.
Depesh Kashyap
And secondly you, in one of the questions you replied that you expect 10% reduction in the beta pattern number. I just want to clarify is that on the exit rate you’re saying on the full year number that you’re saying that you. 10% reduction.
Pranav Bansal
76, 7600 per ton minus 10%. Of course it might vary a little bit due to the product mix. So. But yeah, in General I think 10 number on exit is good to consider.
Depesh Kashyap
Okay, understood. And thirdly, basically the capex that you have in FY26, once you said like 600 majority you will be doing an FY26 only. So let’s say like 60 you’re going to do. And then dadri may you have a 30 gold capex which is lined up. Right. So what about a 400 code capex you will do plus anything on specialty you also want to do in this year.
Pranav Bansal
So specialty we are not looking at a big number this year that should happen in FY27.
Depesh Kashyap
Okay, okay. And inventory levels which have reached increase this year you explained that because of consolidation that happened. But what is the normalized number? Like can it go back to FY24 levels this year?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, it will not. On absolute terms it will not go to FY24 levels. Because from FY24 to FY26 our volumes will be higher by about 50%.
Depesh Kashyap
No, correct. I’m saying as a percent of sales.
Pranav Bansal
It will go to 24. It might even reduce. Because this year, as I said, we are focusing on positive cash flows and better ROCs. Therefore overall, throughout even receivables or inventory days, we are targeting to reduce that by a. By a good margin.
Depesh Kashyap
Understood. And the net debt,
Pranav Bansal
cash from the company.
Depesh Kashyap
Got it. And net debt to a bit has already crossed around 2. It’s around 2.2 levels right now. Is there any threshold number that you don’t want to cross? Is there any number in the mind?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, again, for the last 20 years we’ve been maintaining four kind of a gross debt or net debt to EBITDA and we’ve been very comfortable. However, we don’t believe that even with this expansion we will have to go to that level again.
Depesh Kashyap
And last question.
Pranav Bansal
We are again looking at a good EBITDA coming our way in the next two years.
Depesh Kashyap
And the last question on my side is like, since your company is new, we just want to understand isn’t it seasonality in the business or like you can see a volume growth every quarter.
Pranav Bansal
Sir, there’s not a lot of seasonality in the business. However, just the first quarter of every year we see a lower volume owning to labor shortages in the northern part of India. And that is where 50, 60% of our sales come comes from.
Depesh Kashyap
Okay.
Pranav Bansal
So there is some less offtake in our customers in northern India.
Depesh Kashyap
Okay. And then due to monsoons.
Pranav Bansal
Very long.
Depesh Kashyap
Okay. And then any monsoon impact because that concession is a. Is a big part of your. Right. So that is also. So H2 should be heavy in volumes. That’s how to read it.
Pranav Bansal
Yes sir. Generally H2 is better than the first half. And second quarter is also good. Second is good, third is the best.
Depesh Kashyap
Thanks. Thank you very much.
Pranav Bansal
Thank you sir.
operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in conference, please limit your question to two questions per participant. Should have a follow up question. We request you to rejoin the queue. Next question is from the line of Hiten Bodhicha from Sequent Investment. Please go ahead.
Hiten Boricha
Hello.
Pranav Bansal
Hello.
Hiten Boricha
Yeah, good morning sir, my question is again on the capex. So if you can just give a. Give us the breakup of the 600 crore. How much we are going to spend this year and how much we are going to Spend next year just to understand how will our debt look like by end of this year. And also if you can share the cost of debt.
Pranav Bansal
So sir, I believe we are looking at about 350 crores. 350 odd crores or 400 odd crores in total of investments this year and about 250 crores next year. That’s the total number.
Hiten Boricha
Okay. And if you can share the cost of that. Sir,
Pranav Bansal
cost of debt. Khanshamji, can you take this?
Ghanshyam Das Gujrati
It will be around a 8.25 to 8.3. 8.5.
Hiten Boricha
Okay. Yeah. Also I have a one small suggestion sir. If you can add your like volume numbers quarterly basis and a bit upper numbers in your presentation it would be helpful for us as a analyst to understand more and then ask you questions on the concord.
Pranav Bansal
Sure sir. Sure sir. Yeah. Thank you.
Hiten Boricha
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Akash from Dalal and Rocha. Please go ahead.
Akash Vora
Yeah, actually I also wanted to understand the reason for the higher tax incidence that we have every quarter. I think this quarter it was almost as 34%. So why is it so?
Pranav Bansal
Can you say that again please?
Akash Vora
Yeah, actually I wanted to understand the higher tax incidence that we have. So this time I think the applicable rate was almost as a 34 on the PBT. So why so such high tax taxation numbers for us.
Pranav Bansal
Can you take this?
Ghanshyam Das Gujrati
Actually our subsidiary is under mat. Subsidiary is under match. And because of that we are paying 33. But then actual outflow is not there. The incidence of deferred tax incident of MAT is there Actually. So because of that it is looking like that 34%. Otherwise it is around 25%.
Akash Vora
So. So when do we expect this to normalize? I mean going forward now that we have brought most of our business in our standalone entity. 26. So we’ll come back to 25%.
Ghanshyam Das Gujrati
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We will come back to 25%.
Pranav Bansal
Is already 25. It is only on the face of it that you see 34. Actual outflow is 25. Still.
Akash Vora
Understood. So the cash outflow is not there. But optically it looks like it’s 33. 34.
Ghanshyam Das Gujrati
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of the legal compliance etc. It is going to be there.
Akash Vora
Fair enough. But in FY26 it shall normalize.
Pranav Bansal
Right.
Akash Vora
Great, thanks.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Pratik Singh from Dam Capital. Please go ahead.
Prateek Singh
Hi. Thanks for taking my question again. Just one of the clarification on a prior answer. Prana, when you said that you know Specialties will start contributing from 27 onwards. So this year there will be some contribution from Hogwarts. Right. And they also are recently had a margin like 20 to 25,000 rupees per ton. Kind of the margin business. So will we have some contribution from Housewares this year?
Pranav Bansal
Sure sir, we will definitely have contribution from Hosewar. But that contribution in the total scheme of things is not very significant.
Prateek Singh
Right, Right. You know, so understand the 20kt is a total volume. So. So this year can we expect like 510kt or it would be even lesser than that in terms of Hoseware that.
Pranav Bansal
It all depends on approvals. Although we are expecting something good to happen in the next 25, 30 days. So I think 5,7000 KT. 5000. 5,7000 tonnes is a good number to consider.
Prateek Singh
Understood. And again I’m just touching it a bit so pardon me for that. Just want to understand what kind of margins. Very ballpark. I understand that we’re not still selling it. What kind of margins do we make there? Is that 20, 25,000 rupees per the number correct or can we do a bit higher or lower than that?
Pranav Bansal
Right now I do not have the margins margin numbers with me. But I think it should be in line with our guidance before.
Prateek Singh
Okay, understood. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Shweta Dixas from Systematics Group. Please go ahead.
Shweta Dikshit
Hi. Thank you again. So one question. What would be your capex for FY27 capital expenditure for FY27 and what kind of Capex trajectory are you looking at for beyond FY27 in your medium term growth plan?
Pranav Bansal
Ma’ am, as I have said before, we are looking at about 600 crores of capex for backward integration which will happen in 26 and 27. Apart from that maybe another hundred crores in some upgradation and some capacity, some expansion in Dadari. So 700 crores of I think total capex in the next two years which will be funded majorly through internal accruals and some quantity, some amount of debt.
Shweta Dikshit
Any plans of CAPEX beyond FY27 if anything is under evaluation or what is your targeted growth plan that this is the steady state capex that you are likely to take on every year.
Pranav Bansal
So ma’ am, for the wire business itself, I think another 100, 150 crores of capex every year is what we would look at to grow regularly. And apart from that the opportunity that we have on hand is the specialty wire business, the steel core Division which has a potential for us to grow at about 10 times from the pilot project that we have. So there is there. That is an investment that we would like to do as and when we see some good results coming from the customers. But that number is not known for us today.
operator
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Praful Kumar from Diamond Asia. Please go ahead.
Praful Kumar
Hi Pranav. Congratulations on good numbers. Just to summarize, sorry I joined the call a bit late. You’re talking about 25% volume growth next year with slightly lower EBITDA per ton given the market share gains that you are looking at and improving ROCs, correct?
Pranav Bansal
Yes, sir, absolutely. Improving ROCs and improving cash flow flows.
Praful Kumar
And free cash flows. Okay. Secondly, on that big project that you know you got an entire team for, how is that progressing and when should it see light of the day? How are the pilot going and feedback on the product?
Pranav Bansal
So sir, the steelcode and Hosewire project currently is going better than our expectations. Hosewire, we are already seeing 25% capacity utilization and this should jump significantly in the next two to three months after we get some approvals from our customers. Apart from that, steelcod also we have already sent samples and they are under evaluation right now. We’ve gotten good response products from our customers as well. So I think we are on track, if not better, to get some good utilization next year. And once we are able to get some approvals, we will start expanding in that specialty wire.
What you do?
Praful Kumar
Okay, the last one is. Is there any PLI that you fall into in terms of this product or. You’re looking at that?
Pranav Bansal
Sir, we have applied for some PLIs. We already have a PLI for beadwire in Bunsalwire which we will start utilizing, which we will start utilizing this year. And apart from that, we will also be able to apply for PLI in specialty Wire, the Steel Court project. Whenever we go for it, you will be eligible, correct? Yes, absolutely.
Praful Kumar
Okay, good. Good luck. Do well. Thank you.
operator
Thank you ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question of the day. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Pranav Bansal for closing comments.
Pranav Bansal
Thank you everyone for joining the call. I hope we’ve answered all your queries. For any other questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. We will get you all the information that is available. Thank you again. Looking forward to your continued support.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of Bansil Buyers Industry Ltd. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines.