Axiscades Technologies Ltd (NSE: AXISCADES) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 03, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Sangeeta Tripathi — Head of Investor Relations
Sampath Ravinarayanan — Chairman & Chief Mentor
Alfonso Martinez — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Shashidhar SK — Chief Financial Officer
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy — Chief Executive Officer & Executive Director at Axiscades Aerospace & Technologies Pvt Ltd.
Analysts:
Nirali Gopani — Analyst
Deepak Poddar — Analyst
Aman Vij — Analyst
Koushik Mohan — Analyst
Rupesh Tatiya — Analyst
Shweta — Analyst
Nirvana Alaha — Analyst
Sanjay Shah — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 and Nine Months FY ’25 Earnings Conference Call of AXISCADES Technologies Limited, hosted by Orient Capital.
As a reminder, all participant lines will be in a listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchstone phone.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Sangeeta Tripathi, Head, Investor Relations from AXISCADES. Thank you, and over to you, ma’am.
Sangeeta Tripathi — Head of Investor Relations
Thank you. A great evening to everyone. Welcome to ’25 and nine months FY ’25 results conference call for AXISCADES Technologies Limited. Today, I’m joined by our leadership team, Dr Sampad, our Chairman of the Board; Mr. Alfonso Martinez; our Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Shashidhar S. K., our CFO; along with Mr. Sharadhi Babupampapathy; and Mr. D. Murli Krishnan, our President, ESAI, that is Electronic Semiconductor and AI domain. They will present an overview of the AXISCADES’s recalibrated strategy, our business performance and financial results, after which we will open the floor for questions.
Before we begin, please note that this call may contain forward-looking statements based on company’s current expectations, beliefs and opinions. These statements involve risks and uncertainties and actual results may differ materially.
I now hand over the call to our Chairman, Dr. Sampath Ravinarayanan to discuss the business performance and the strategic direction of the company. Over to you, sir.
Sampath Ravinarayanan — Chairman & Chief Mentor
Thank you, Sangeeta. Good evening, everyone, and hope all of you are keeping well. Thank you for joining our Q3 FY ’25 earnings call. I trust you have had an opportunity to review the financial results and investor presentation that have been made available on the stock exchange under our website. So basically, if you look at our investor presentation, we are focusing on certain three areas.
I’ll sell the rationale when I took over by philosophy is that if you have to be in a particular business, we should have a podium finish. We should be among the top three in the areas we are operating. The best areas we are close to getting there is Aerospace, defense this ESAI, which is electronics, semiconductors and artificial intelligence.
Because we have enough leadership team, we have thousands of many years of experience with us and we are already having a kind of a jump-start. We are in some kind of coal position in these kind of things. If you go to the page six, which you would have seen, the main investor presentation, we have seen our own performance, Aerospace, defense and ESAI is contributing for about 99% of our EBITDA and 72% of our revenue, whereas all the other businesses are contributing for only 1% of EBITDA with almost like 1,116 people. The people-wise, it is like about 60-40, whereas the contribution wise yearly wise, it is 99 and 1. So we decided to focus more on that.
Core — this — we call it as a core activities, aerospace, defense and ESAI and we’ll focus on that. Our non-core we are deciding — we are just contemplating, we have various options with non-core what we are going to do. We are just discussing and see what best can be done.
But our primary focus is going to be on the core businesses and we are going to recalibrate the non-core to fit into our core strategy. And so this is our first measure has important decision. Then if you look at it in core aerospace and defense and electronics, semiconductors and artificial intelligence. In that, as you know, as defense, of course, we are working on a few programs. We are our main task. We have a three-level engagement with defense.
One is with the programs, which is essentially driven by DRDO. And so the other one is direct with PSUs. And the second one is direct MOD, something like similar to the anti-drone and so on. Third is engagement with foreign OEMs in terms of offset or and so on. So difference we are in each areas, we are trying to increase our footprint engagement programs, etc., etc. And in fact, in aerospace, as you would know, there is no new aircraft is being built-in the last so many years. Last one was A350 and after that almost 15 years, no new aircraft, I don’t — we don’t see any new aircraft coming.
So basically we are — our whole revenue comes from repairs and support of the old aircraft and production support, et-cetera and some kind of structural changes, structural designs and improvements, etc. So we are looking at expanding the aerospace activities by getting into supply-chain management, artificial intelligence enabled MRO manufacturing and design, aircraft conversions, which is happening a big way. Interior design is also happening in a big way. They are trying to set-up speed shops, powered by our logistics, inspection facilities, etc.
In terms of electronics, semiconductors and artificial intelligence, as you want to — I want you to understand that we are only into post silicon. There are hundreds of companies in pre-silicon. We are not focusing on pre-silicon. We are into post silicon. That is once the chip is made, we use the chip to make products, products for various applications, various groups and so on. So we are making box. So we are into box building from — so we are now — earlier we have to do — we used to do only design. Now we are building the box. Now we are building some prototype, some batch production go up to 1,000, 2,000, 10,000 numbers of batches of these products. That’s how we are going to scale-up.
Then we are also getting into — we got a company called Ad Solutions. Ad Solution had certain skills and thermal management. So we are trying to build a thermal management capability out of it. Of course, and we are trying to get into micro data center, AI-based quantum data centers and so on. Edge micro data centers is our focus. And of course, we will probably do incubation activities so that to get some IPs quite fast.
So essentially the whole approach is that we want to grow non-linear, that means meaning that we don’t — we want to be IP-driven growth, product-driven growth. We don’t want to be — our growth should not be proportion the number of people. It should be more than our capabilities, our IPs, our products and so on. We want to be globally present and we should be quite scalable with quality. These are our three mantras in which we are trying to expand.
So this is what our — so in order to do this, we need a very formidable leadership team. Of course, we have tweaked the Board of Directors. I would have seen that lot of changes have taken place in the Board and we — maybe there will be one or two changes — final changes or maybe additions, which will add to our vision and our — who would be supportive and who could be adding value to our these three domains we talked about. So that is why our focus is — total focus, there is a sharp focus is to ensure that everybody connected with us should contribute to somewhere to our growth strategy. So that is what we are trying to do.
And Alfonso, of course is a — we always use to admire him because he was our competition as in Alfonso started — he is basically aerospace aerodynamics engineer who started his own company at an engage in 1997, sold the company — exited the company with Ultron, took us leadership position in Ultron and drove their aerospace and related verticals more than $1 billion for almost 18 — 18 years. Then when Ultron was bought by Cap, he joined Cap Germany.
He was part of Cap journey on the leadership position and doing a similar role, again handling billion-plus dollars. Then three years even Cap Germany, then he joined Quest Global as a Group President, then now he joined. After three years stint in Quest Global, he is now there. He assumed office on 20th of January. He came to India for about 10 15 days there. He got accustomed to everything and then got inducted. So basically is very much there. He is in the call as well.
And then we decided that all these three verticals we talked about, we call that as domains, all these three domains we talked about, aerospace and defense and DSI, we have President separately. Shari Babu, our President of Defense, he is a very veteran of access Catus. He’s been there since inception. I hired him and when I was Chairman, CEO of AXISCADES, I had him in 2008. Then he has been driving the defense business for a long-time. He understands everything, he understands various programs, himself is a great engineer and hands-on person started his life in the Air Force.
And so he is handling the defense part. And Murli Krishnan, of course, he is also an access term. If you notice,, so the entire leadership team is from AXISCADES. They are AXISCADES alumni. So we have not — because the reason is we don’t want too many outsiders because currently, we don’t have time. We don’t have learning curve, we don’t have understanding curve just to get into that chemistry, et-cetera.
So we want somebody who knows Access, how it functions, the leadership, the investors, everybody, just be part of that and we retune them. So Murly Krishnan also was — we were was handling in a leadership position for about nearly 2009 to ’16, he was there. Now he is President of ESA, ASI, great leader, great team builder and he successfully handled many activities and access. Then we went to and is back here. He also assumed charge December 15th and he’s already doing a great job.
Then you have President of Aerospace, again AXISCADES alumni. He used to work for me. One of the best ways who ever work for me is my superstar and he is going to join in month of April. He’s done a great job in his current company, took from almost zero to a huge order books and made it as a kind of a well-known name in the aerospace manufacturing.
So he brings that experience we need. I talked about supply-chain management, aircraft conversion, speed shop, inspection facility, all these things this gentleman is going to bring in. He has a worldwide contact, not only contact, he’s got a lot of respect and affection from the aerospace community.
So he will make — he will definitely make lot of changes. And of course, Sashi, you know very well. This is our core leadership team. So we need — in order to move forward, we need to strengthen a lot of support we require. So we have brought in three advisors. Again, they are very world-class. Nick Santanam, I’m very privileged and happy to have him.
It’s very rare to have such a senior person. Nick was a senior partner at driving their global semiconductor practice, practice and he has served semiconductor all over the world and he knows most of the semiconductor CEOs very well by first name basis. So he’s the advisory role. He is a member of Force Business Council and advisory role in Smithsonian libraries and so on.
Well-known. He lives in Palo Alto and so in Bay Area, California. And so anyway, so is an advisor here. Kanal Kuber, again, he is the person who initially was one of the architects of the defense offset policy was the first-in charge of DOFA, Defense Offset Facilitation Agency and served as members of Expert Committee, advisor to DRDO and Senior to NIC and the Ministry of MSME.
And is also during my initial tenure, he was there when we got balanced programs and all. He was our advisor before, worked with us before know he is well-known to us and he is also Director in B&W at this time. And you give us a Head of Airbus Group in India, President of Airbus Group for 10 years. He knows India very well, all the offset programs are well.
He is a go-to guy for not only for Airbus Group, but the entire European industry, if something they need any doubt, they can’t you because he is that much better in India, Europe, offsets and defense policies, etc., et-cetera, plus aerospace, he knows extremely well. He was President of Airbus Group and so he built the Airbus what it is today in here.
And so he is highly respected in this and also he served in and other companies. So he’s a very, very important pillar for aerospace industry around the world and we are honored — proud to have him also there. Already, Kanal and is on-board almost last one and a half months and they are making lot of difference. They are giving us lot of support and so on.
So as you see that now we have almost aligned more or less our positions, our people, the leadership team, but for almost everything is filled up now, one of the main aerospace president has to join. And we are also hiring one Senior Vice-President from again an access as for and for — who is also now working in a very large multinational leadership position, directorial position is joining us next month.
So once this is almost India facing all the main team will be completed with that. Only thing probably we’ll be hiring in the future are more sales team. Alfonso feels that we need more sales team and sales presence and different geographies and so on. So will decide and hire more salespeople and so on in this.
So other than that, we are almost completely filled all the positions at this point of time and also the advisory. Maybe we’ll add one more next level advisors in these categories. So with that, we are planning to grow. As we always — we mentioned in our presentation, our focus is to grow about at least 50% on the core doing on the three areas, aerospace, defense and e-side, 50% plus.
When I say growth, I have only three things in my two — as I said, we have to be in top of the — we should be top three. You should have finish if you are in this area. That is I’m only looking at EBITDA not on the revenue, et-cetera. So I just need a — what how do I maximize the EBITDA? That is my second major focus point. The third is the percentage of EBITDA. So how do I increase the percentage of EBITDA so that helps the quality of the company that helps us into climbing the value chain.
So these are the three things. Just being finishing the top three in the areas we operate, whether it’s aerospace, defense or is next two years, three years, we should be among the top three in the country and a significant player in the world. That is number-one. Number two is just to have the best percentage of EBITDA that we can achieve. And the third is how do we increase the EBITDA. So that is the — these are the three things maximized. So this is what we — my goal will be and so on. So one thing is that we require large investments in terms of moving forward.
Each one — each — in fact, some way Airbus and defense will — sorry, aerospace and defense will be together will be creating an infrastructure separately, which will be called DAC, which is Devon Hali Arth Madurbar cluster, okay. That is we have owned a 20-acre land just adjacent to Bangalore airport called Aero Land, very prestigious place we’ll be building a huge cluster to do this.
So meanwhile we have — we are doing two other activities. That is our first investment is improving our electronic heating facility. We are going to build our own hangers. We are going to test the hangers, integrate and so on and also it was drone building and so on. So — and it drones. So we are building a hanger immediately, also building one more store so that our defense — direct defense team and the radar team and all can move that too in the electronic city.
So the second is we are already almost — the coal shell is completed for the — near our Bangalore Airport, our own facility, but we have on joint development with another builder. So this will be ready by February end. So we will do, etc. We’ll move into this facility by around end of May. That’s the plan. So by 1st of June, we’ll be in this facility.
This will be 180,000 square feet facility. Just put it in perspective, it is almost double — more than double of all the facilities we have at this point of time. This allows world-class electronic manufacturing facility and also in the ground floor, it will have a strategic partner. Some customers will have whom we have a long-term strategic relationship. It will be there until they move to the generally at metal per cluster.
So this will house some of the foreign OEMs also. And of course, this will also have the entire ESI and the ecosystem further and AI skill development AI, delivery facilities and all will be there. This is something the electronic city and the BL work has already started. We both — we will be moving in by, hopefully completing and moving by June 1st.
Definitely the second that is the land will definitely move by June 1st. Here depending upon the construction and monsoon, etc., there may be some delays, but still we are planning through by June 1st. DAC, this DAC, we have a plan almost ready. We have a digital — we are doing a virtual lock-through. We want to showcase this to our customers during the Aero India. So if any of you are probably will circulate a video version to you at some point of time, we’ll put it on — in a private mode in YouTube or somewhere and share the link with you so that you can understand our vision as far as DAC is concerned.
So this is what is our investments and this thing is all about. And rest of the things about numbers and I’ll leave Sashi to talk to you. So I just wanted to assure performance. Yeah. Shashi will go to the numbers. Before going through, I’ll just give the call to Alfonso. He can just introduce himself and you can talk to him, then I’ll — Sashi can go through the numbers. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Alfonso Martinez — Managing Director & Chief Executive Officer
Okay. Thank you very much, Dr and good evening, everyone. I’m thrilled to be part of this call. This is the first time I interact with you all. Well, as Dr said, I’m bringing to AXISCADES my more than 25 years of global experience in engineering and technology services.
I’ve been piloted roles such as Global Business Head for Transportation, of course, across global and also hold several managing positions at Altran Group and Engineering. I have led global and complex teams driven business transformation achieving transformational growth. Let me remember in 2008, when it was my first visit to India and at that time, India was clearly leading in IT services and then started engineering services.
But I realized that a similar trend will happen in engineering. Since then, I visited India every year for the last 17 years. And joining now AXISCADES as CEO is super exciting. I’ve been advocating that India will be the center of gravity for the engineering worldwide and now it is a reality and being a key actor on that is a real privilege. Joining AXISCADES is an incredible opportunity to build-on a very strong foundation. My immediate focus will be boosting our technological capabilities and aligning our strategies with client needs.
Let me emphasize that having led global technology corporations and can vouch for the exemplary capabilities and competence of AXISCADES engineering to program the delivery teams. This is really one of — in the last two weeks since I joined is one of the best I’ve ever seen. Let me tell you also to introduce myself that I will be hands-on. I will always have been leading my things from the front-line you know engaging with customers is my passion and motivation. I’ve never done in my life nothing like that, engaging with clients, you know. In a few days, I will start early to do that.
In fact, well, I already did in my first two weeks, but now they are coming to important industry events in which we are participating Aero India and IDEX in Abu Dhabi. And of course, I will be there supporting the team in-building long-term relationships and big deals with the clients. The opportunity in aerospace, defense and high-tech is there, you know.
We have the right positioning, the competences and the capabilities. And as explained very well, we have a very clear focus plan. In most of my career, I played a global role. I’m building relationships in many different countries. In particular, aerospace and defense industries is where I’ve been mostly active in my previous companies.
And with my industry knowledge and global network, I am committed to helping the company to transition from a product going into a more product-focused to achieve no linear growth strategy, as I said very well. We are being a more asset-based service company than a labor base. This is recalibrating all the business. We have to do an action as Dr said on recalibrating the low-margin non-core businesses and then making this strategic shift that will drive the sustainable profitability and enhance value for our stakeholders.
For your information, I will be spending more or less 50-50 my time between India and Europe and US. And as I said, very clear, my focus will be big deals, elevate our positioning and building long-time relationships with our clients. Dr. Reynolds already mentioned that we need to enhance even more the sales team to allow this more relationship-based and long-term engagement with the clients. We are missing big deals and this is coming now. Also very exciting to be in a company that is really technology-driven. Now the world is AI-powered systems from chip to system, et-cetera, and the company is building a beautiful position in there.
So a few things more. I will be happy to take questions. I ask you to understand that I only been two weeks in the company. So for many things about our internal questions, it will be the rest of the team answer and I can take the questions on the market and the perspective. Now, thanks to you for your attention, and I pass the call to Mr. Shashidar, our CFO, to walk you through our financial performance.
So Sasi, floor is yours.
Shashidhar SK — Chief Financial Officer
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. It’s a pleasure to be here and share our performance with you. We have seen a healthy growth across all segments. That’s the good news. Our consolidated revenue grew by 18.4% year-on-year in-quarter — in Q3 to INR274 crores with a 3.7% sequential increase, largely driven by strong growth in our core verticals. Defense posted an impressive 88% year-on-year growth, while aerospace grew by 11% year-on-year. Our EBITDA for Q3 FY ’25 rose by 36.9% year-on-year to INR40 crores. The EBITDA margin expanded by 200 basis-points year-on-year and 220 basis-points quarter-on-quarter, reaching 14.6% for Q3 FY ’25.
Our core domains comprising aerospace, defense and, which is electronics, semiconductors and AI, demonstrated robust growth of 33.1% year-on-year with Q3 FY ’25 revenue reaching INR207 crores compared to INR155 crores in Q3 of FY ’24. This strong performance was primarily driven by an impressive 88% year-on-year growth in the Defense segment, fueled by increased order execution. Meanwhile, Aerospace posted a year-on-year growth of 11%. The core segment’s EBITDA grew by 68% year-on-year with a significant margin expansion of 450 basis-points from 16.8% in Q3 FY ’24 to 21.3% in Q3 FY ’25. Core EBITDA amounted to INR44 crores, up from INR26 crores in Q3 of FY ’24.
Both Defense and Aerospace segment saw a notable improvement in EBITDA margin. Defense EBITDA margin stretched to 18% in Q3 FY ’25, up from about 8% in Q3 of FY ’24, driven by enhanced order execution and operational leverage. Aerospace posted an EBITDA margin of 24% compared to 20% in the same period of last year. The non-core business, predominantly driven by automotive experienced 11% decline year-on-year with revenue decreasing from INR76 crores in Q3 FY ’24 to INR68 crores in Q3 of FY ’25. The non-core segment reported a negative EBITDA of INR4 crores in Q3 FY ’25 compared to a positive EBITDA INR3 crores in Q3 of FY ’24.
As articulated by Dr SRN, our endeavor is to recalibrate the low-margin non-core business in the next six to nine months. Finance costs were reduced by 39.7% year-on-year to INR7.3 crores, reflecting improved debt management. Profit-after-tax grew by 96% on a year-on-year basis from INR7.5 crores in Q3 of FY ’24 to INR14.8 crores in Q3 of FY ’25. The PAT margin came at 5.3% for the quarter as against 3.2% in Q3 FY ’24. With respect to nine months performance, the total operating revenue for the nine months period grew by 9.4% year-on-year to INR762 crores. EBITDA for nine months FY ’25 stood at INR104 crores with a margin of 13.6%.
PAT reached INR44 crores, up from INR24 crores in the same period of last year, highlighting significant profitability improvement. Net-debt was at INR35.5 crores as on 31st December, the EPS has almost doubled up by 96% from INR1.75 not annualized approv to 33.44 in Q3 of FY ’25. The order book as on 31st December was at INR83 million or about INR710 crores.
As we embark on this exciting new chapter, our strategy is centered on advancing along the value chain and focusing on product and solution-driven offerings. With a strong leadership team and ongoing investments, we are well-positioned for sustained growth and to maximize value for our stakeholders.
Thank you, and we now open the floor for questions.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Participants who wish to ask a question may press and one on your telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question key, you may press star and two 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles.
We have the first question from the line of Nirali Gopani from Unique PMS. Please go-ahead.
Nirali Gopani
Yeah, hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Sampath, sir, congratulations on joining AXISCADES and you coming and have really changed your perception of the company. So my question is on the change in the strategy that we are seeing. So we have seen this huge change in the strategy. The last two acquisitions, which were very recent have now been qualified as non-core and which at that point of time we believe to have huge potential. So as investors, how should we look at this change or how confident should we be that this new strategy will work-in our favor?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
See, basically the core activities, we are very confident about taking it already it isn’t doing — if you see the numbers, the EBITDA and performance of core, they are doing well. We are — the leadership team is very much plugged into that and have a lot of experience for the people. And so all of us are from the top to, myself, Mohan, Babu. Everybody has tons of experience in the aerospace and defense and also in and morally comes with a huge experience in operations and so on. So given that we are very confident, we have enough pipeline, we have enough customer support to take this forward on its own to a great hedge. That’s what we are.
We are — if you look at the numbers we have presented, if you remove the non-core from the equation, then you’ll see almost we are — our EBITDA is 18.7% at 19% of the same EBITDA value is presented at 18.73%. But as you see as a combined, the percentage comes down to 14% — what is it? Nearly 13%. 13.7% if you combine that and it just adds 1%, but drops the points by almost like 4.5%. So in anyway, we have no choice but to recalibrate, relook at it.
We — and we are doing it in a manner that it will always help the shareholders. As I said, my whole goal is to make sure that your EPS is maximized and we also climb the value chain by increase in the percentage of EBITDA. So these are the two definite focus for us and we’ll make sure that everything in our commitment to make it happen. So that’s what I can say at this point.
Alfonso Martinez
Just to add, Nirali, you see the fact — the way we are calling it as non-core is because always we have maintained that the heavy engineering vertical as what we are serving is predominantly a staffing business. And with respect to automotive, as all of us know, it is undergoing some macro challenges and customer-specific issues.
While we definitely are talking about a recalibration of these businesses, we are agnostic to which for the service to customers and what we are actually offering to customers. We are agnostic to which domain they belong to as long as they fit into our offerings in our core — three core domain. For example, in our domain, we will horizontally serve a range of clients and markets, which may also include aerospace, defense and our legacy domains engineering, automotive, energy, space, medical, etc.
Our singular focus and objective will be that all our businesses and customers should serve to be margin-accretive and should not value the margins of our core verticals. So that is the — that’s the message we are trying to do. It’s not that we are completely going away as long as it fits into our core, I would say, verticals, especially now where in terms of heavy engineering, automotive and all of that, when if it fits into the SI business, which is high-margin, that’s where we are going to kind of focus on, not the predominant staffing business.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Just to add, see, one point, see, as you said, ESAI is sector agnostic. We are for example, the world’s leader in SDVs and new-generation automotive. Now we call it a technology. Tesla calls itself as a technology company, not as an automotive company.
If you’ve given that, we are serving Aptiv. Aptiv is one of the largest and SDB companies. So we are there our customers. We’ll continue to be our customer, but they are our customers in Eisai Group. Just so is Apple, so is Amazon. We are probably can say that we are the one of the few Indian companies who can have Axon, Apple, Amazon and Aptive as our customers as of today.
So that is what I can say. So ESAI will be sector agnostic. Some of this non-core will be put in here so that we can deliver a higher-value to the customers.
Nirali Gopani
Right. And this is investment that we have announced in the presentation, which we call strategic investment one and two, what kind of investments will this — will this need and how do we plan to fund them?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
See the INR1 and 2 probably will take about INR150 crores to INR200 crores. We are probably pick it around INR180, let us say. So some of them are building on facilities and creating new equipments, etc. Mostly the money will be consumed for the radar hangers and integration facilities, testing facilities for radars, etc. And similarly, electronic island manufacturing for defense components, defense assemblies and also testing and so on.
So these are the facility cost and this includes buildings and customized buildings, etc. So as you say that — as you see that this is a new facility of about 220,000 square feet, which is 180,000 square feet will come in the land and about 40,000 square feet-in electronic city.
So this is something like two times or three times more bigger than what we have currently. So this number-one and number two put together is 180. And we are having few options of how to fund it. Probably in another two, three months, we’ll have one call or one — we’ll brief you sometimes and how we are going to do this.
Currently, it’s all under — we are exploring various possibilities, but definitely we have a plan to fund this first 180. The third is a fairly huge project, which is DAC, which will address it separately. We are coming with the strategy, but basically that will be addressed in the Q1 of FY ’26. So that will be separate as investment. But 102 your answer question is approximately INR180 crores.
Alfonso Martinez
So essentially, just to add to Dr. Sampath, you see this facility of 180,000 square feet also is commuted in a company-owned and the land around INR2.3 crores — 2.3 acres, which is being co-developed. So that means we are not investing any money in terms of building. It’s actually being kind of I would say put in by the actually joint developer.
Our contribution is the land value. And essentially we are going to be leasing the entire facility once the 180,000 square feet gets built. The investment as what Dr is talking about is in terms of building an integrated manufacturing facility, the interiors and all of that with respect to, you know the core verticals as what is going to operate from there.
Nirali Gopani
Yeah. Because given you are also planning inorganic acquisitions, so the total capex number will be quite large, right, over the next two, three years.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
The total investment. Planning anything right now on inorganic acquisitions as of now, okay. Our focus is only these two things and we are — we may look at — we have a different strategy for Eisai. Again, we’ll come back to you. It’s not inorganic acquisitions, but there will be certain requirements there also. So currently, we’ll say that safely can assume for FY ’26, we will probably take our requirement around 280 — sorry, 180 for this year-one and two. And we are not looking at any inorganic acquisition unless something exotic comes our way in FY ’26.
Nirali Gopani
Okay. Right. And one final question, the business that we have classified as non-core. So if we want to — if we decide to exit, let’s say, ad solution or the energy business, given the situation today, how confident are we of getting some hires on that side?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Yeah. So one is ad solution, we are not exiting. We are recalibrating. We are making it as a thermal management company. We — they have very good capabilities and it will be part of our Eisai Group, seamlessly integrated. So we really have — so that is not going to happen. In the other energy, etc., et-cetera, in fact, we have not even thought about exiting, but we have two major buyers lined-up already, they came and approached us on their own. But so there is no death of buyers. But we are not very sure is that an option we want to pursue, okay?
So these things are — we are evaluating, but there is no death of buyers at this situation and so on. But in any case, we are not giving it off. We are just making sure that they are strengthened. Even if we are going to exit that, it should be in our terms. We should be in a portion of strength and while we exist. That’s what we think.
Nirali Gopani
Perfect. That’s it from my side. Thank you so much for answering my questions.
Alfonso Martinez
Thank you.
Operator
Participants are requested to kindly restrict your questions to two per participant. We have the next question from the line of Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital. Please go ahead.
Deepak Poddar
Hello. Am I audible, sir?
Operator
Yes, I can hear you.
Deepak Poddar
Yeah, thank you very much for the opportunity. Sir, now going through the presentation that we have laid out our strategic roadmap, right? So we are talking about growth of more than 50% in our core business, right? So that 50%, I mean plus is what we are targeting to 60% 70% is also is what we might look at, right, going ahead?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Yeah. Yeah. Some areas, yes.
Deepak Poddar
Come again, sir.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Some verticals, yes. Yeah, we are looking at — see this the three verticals for when we say, we are looking at around 55% to 60% at difference, 50% to 55% at AESI and 45% to 50 at aerospace.
Deepak Poddar
At an average, it would be 50% 55%, right?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
On our average, it will be more than 50%. I’m only talking about EBITDA, okay. I’m only talking about EBITDA, not on the EBITDA of the whole company, we will — only through core will exceed in the next year.
Shashidhar SK
Okay. So, this growth that we are talking about is on the EBITDA, not on the revenue, not on the revenue. EBITDA growth, it will be — see, I’ll just put it this way. If AXISCADES is going to be my FY ’25 EBITDA, we will be 1.4 times EBITDA in 2026 — that is FY ’26.
Deepak Poddar
And that — and this we are specifically talking about on the core domain, right?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Non-core also, I’m talking about the whole, let us say the total EBITDA of the company is X as of FY ’25. Now my — our EBITDA, you can safely assume will be 1.5, yes, by FY ’26 under this entire 1.5 times may come from the core. That’s what I…
Deepak Poddar
Fair enough, because that’s what’s happening currently. So what we are talking about, let me just reiterate, whatever total EBITDA we have, we are looking at 1.5%, 50% 55% growth in total EBITDA in FY ’26. That also factor-in the improvement in EBITDA margin you’re talking about, I mean 300 basis-point improvement you’re talking about, right, in exchange?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
That’s also there. So the two parameters I’m trying — we are trying to control is the value — absolute value of EBITDA, which will be 1.5 times the FY ’25 figures. On the points, that is the percentage of EBITDA, which is going to be at least 300 bps higher than this FY ’25. These are the two parameters. That will decide what the revenue is going to be.
Deepak Poddar
That is going to decide what the revenue.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
That’s not going to be worried about revenue. These two parameters will pick, okay, automatically, the revenue will get correct.
Deepak Poddar
Okay. Correct. And one can take this as a CGR as well. I mean, going into FY ’27, a similar kind of growth is what one can envisage given the tailwind you are seeing in this core sector?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
See, FY ’27 will be also dependent on how fast what we are going to do with our investment one, two and three. We have FY ’27, ’28, ’29 growth. We want a phenomenal growth that will mostly depend on what are we — a lot of things are totally depending upon how the DAC is going to come in, what are the things we are going to do in the investments, etc. Of course, on a normal way, it will have a similar, if not, I don’t know about the 50% growth, but it will have a similar kind of growth. In fact, we are looking at almost similar — internally, we are looking at a good growth, extremely good growth.
Sangeeta Tripathi
Well, as high as 50%, 55% that we are targeting this year as well, I mean FY ’26?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
I see we have our numbers in mind, but it will be closer to that. But as I said, because FY ’26, what are the efforts we are putting in terms of investment, in terms of the setting up the — see, I will put — tell you put it this way. In FY ’26, it’s a taxiing mode, okay, 27 is going to be our takeoff and ’28 will be cruising and going on and so on. So basically this how we are going to plan and what is going to be there that lot of dependencies are there, but we have a great plan to overcome all these things. And definitely we will give a formidable numbers for 27 months.
Deepak Poddar
Okay, understood. Fair enough. I think that would be it from my side, sir. I think all the very best to you. Thank you so much.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Thanks. Hello?
Operator
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Aman from Astute Investment Management. Please go-ahead.
Aman Vij
Yeah. Good evening, sir. Just a couple of questions on defense side. So we were expecting some orders on the counterdrone side, some big orders. And we were expecting, say, by next year, we might do like maybe INR250 crore INR300 crores in counterdrone. So is it on-track?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
I’ll leave this to Mr. Babu. Sharadhi is going to answer.
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
Hey, thanks for the question. Yeah, right now, yes, as you know, we have already delivered the first anti-drone system that has gone into the army. And we are expecting on the repeat order and also certain upgrades on the same. And also already we are participating in many RFPs. As you know, there are several RFPs that have come in and we are in the good pool position to participate and also win certain some of these RFPs.
And we are in a very strong position on the control drone systems. And you are — and we are demonstrating and showcasing all our product portfolio in the air shore. I strongly urge all of you to come and then view the product portfolio in both drone and counter-drone domains. We have very, very strong new product portfolio and also very attractive things for the future.
Aman Vij
Sure, sir. On the offset business, if you can talk about how is that scaling and what kind of growth do we expect in the next two, three years? Can it become like a INR200 crore INR300 crore business for us in the next two years?
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
In the offset business, certainly there is there is a very strong growth happening. As you know, already the Ministry of Defense is working out on placing certain new orders on and also certain other naval and our projects. So AXISCADES has been part of the — has been the prime offset partner to these global — especially global OEMs in the last 10 years and certainly this relationship is very strong and it will continue in future. And certainly, we expect the order of magnitude to be probably what you’ve mentioned probably more than that.
Aman Vij
Sure. And on the upgrade, sir, could you give some updates because I believe we were supposed to get orders after the 33rd plan and so on. So is it expected, say, next two, two quarters maybe we’ll start getting that orders for upgrade on LCS side? And also if you can talk about it.
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
Yes, as you mentioned, we are already on the — on the course of delivering for the LCA, Mark 1 A is going on. And also the Sukoy upgrades also FY ’26, there are certain numbers, which probably you will know from the market. Yes, they are on-track and then our production is also in — on-track.
Aman Vij
Okay. So can this combined Sukhoi and be like a INR100 crore business for us in FY ’26 or do you expect it to be bigger than that?
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
Combined between SCO and LCA, it will be — it will be more or less, yes, you are right because we are working on — it depends on the exact number of our that are getting upgraded. So the number what they have announced is same as you will meet the same numbers.
Aman Vij
And the big scale-up will be in FY ’27.
Operator
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Aman may I request you to comeback.
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
Can apart scaling of in the FY ’27, you’re right.
Aman Vij
I’ll have more questions, but I’ll get back-in the queue. Thank you.
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
Sure.
Operator
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Koushik Mohan from Ashika Group. Please go-ahead.
Koushik Mohan
Hi, sir. Congratulations for the new team. Sir, I just wanted to understand on one basic thing. With the new team, what is our vision for the longer-term? And how are we immediately looking for the next coming year? Thank you.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Thanks, Mr. Mohan. So, basically, we are happy to announce a formidable team, not only the leadership team, but the — as you would see that world-class advisory team. So we are looking at — actually the mandate or the request from the investors that to me is that I should exponentially grow the company. It should be a very well-known, very respectable company with a good formidable growth, et-cetera. So we need all the support we require.
So the team is in-place, almost the core team is in-place. Each one has their job cut and very simple that they have to grow as big or as faster than anybody else. So in defense, we are pretty confident of things happening. Aerospace it’s on-track with. So is a big-name and is there. And we are also getting our new President who is also a well-known name. I’m talking about big-name in the whole world.
So these people are extremely well-known and in fact, one good advantage with both Alfonso and the new President of Aerospace is they are very complementary. For example, the new person who is coming is well-known in US also. Even Alfonso has a lot of things going on in the US. So they will bring additional and geographically and also in the different parts of the value chain will help us climbing the value chain. Regarding Easi, we are — as you know that we are — see, approximately they are going to be around 20% of our core is coming from, around 40%, 40%. So our immediate target is to bring ESAI in par with aerospace and defense. So almost like two years from now, we want to see that it is all 33%, 33%, 33%.
So given that ESAI is the one we are trying to sort of focus more on trying to do that. We have some kind of a strategy. Basically we will probably announce it little later, but just give you a hint, we are trying to create a fund — a deep fund, okay. And we are trying to sort of incubate several companies. Instead of going and buying companies, we are trying to develop on certain technologies required for aerospace, defense and our own, the growth areas that we are planning right now. Maybe another two months, we’ll be almost ready in a position. Again, this — it’s in a very preliminary process. I don’t want to announce it at this stage. Don’t take it as an announcement. It is a loud thinking.
But that is the only way we are planning to grow the ESI very quickly. We’ll create a good deep fund and start investing into certain niche technologies. That’s a plan we are at present having and that will be probably take a shape in another two, three months’ time. So probably when we enter Q, that is FY ’26, we’ll have all this arrangement, at least the template ready for that. And through which worldwide, we will be taking up certain incubating or taking funding or certain funding into interesting areas in YA and the, basically. That’s what is our plan.
So in this team, we are putting place, keeping all this in mind, next five-year plan who all can help, Coal can support, can ensure and backup if somebody fails who is the backup like that. So we are creating a very formidable team that can like create a redundancy, create foolproof kind of team setup and that’s what we are planning at this stage. As I said, this is the overall — we have an ambitious plan, I would say, for the next five years. So hopefully, as I said, if you ask me, we should definitely become the top three in India in every category we are operating and we should be a significant player in the world. We should be well-known in the world. So these are our ambitions. Hopefully, we should get somewhere there.
Koushik Mohan
That’s what it is. Thanks. Is there anything else? Congrats, sir. I have one other question. Sir, what can be our sustainable margins when we look at our peers and then when we look at ourselves, I can understand till-date it’s a different story. But from today, what can be our sustainable margins going-forward for next five years that we are aiming at?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
So, Koushik, if you look at the page six of our this thing that is our investor presentation, you’ll see defense is the robust like 21 point something. ESA is also — sorry, aerospace is at 21 point something. And defense — Eisai is also at 21.6%. Both are very healthy. But defense was 14.6% this year because of mostly things are in prototype development-stage and things like were very new. So we had to do a lot of trial and error, etc. Now that they are all shaped up very well, defense will have a higher-margin. If you just ignore the non-core intake only core and the plug-in that we are just across the learning curve and to prototype phase, it should be technically at least at 18.7% on average, okay?
So — but we have plans as the product matures and as more products coming in and so on. And one thing we are not going to increase any manpower. It can be reduced. Our total headcount is going to be the same or much less. So given that we have only one-way, we can go only up. So we don’t know-how much we can go up in terms of EBITDA margins, but we are trying to do everything to make it better. So almost most of our cost structure is finalized, except for some sales team, et-cetera. So we need to see. And any new additions will be at the cost of — the total headcount will remain the same, absolutely or less. That’s what — so we are planning to do everything possible to get a robust EBITDA. And you can see that in the Page 6, whatever we see in the left-hand side is our not only aspiration, that’s what we are doing currently. So we’ll try to sort of maintain it and grow on that.
Koushik Mohan
Okay. Got it. Got it. Sir, and…
Operator
Mr. Koushik, may we request you to kindly come back-in the queue for follow-up questions.
Koushik Mohan
Sure, sure.
Operator
In the interest of time, we request the participants to kindly stick with two questions per participant. We have the next question from the line of Rupesh Tatiya from Intelsence Capital. Please go-ahead.
Rupesh Tatiya
Hello, sir, am I audible?
Operator
Yeah.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
We can hear you.
Rupesh Tatiya
Yeah. Sir, my first question is on Mistral side. I wanted to understand our contribution to missile programs. I think in the past, you have mentioned, I think Pinaka on the presentation and also I think you mentioned Astra missiles on our presentation. So what are the components that we supply to these two missiles and what kind of revenue or per missile contribution, what is our per missile contribution for these two programs?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Yes, we are contributing to the missile program and we have been part of the Akash program and also we are supplying the telemetry for Akash. The exact values per program per missile, I would like to right now keep it within ourselves, okay. But we have — we are part of this program. And also I would like to update you that we will be part of the upcoming our missile programs also. We are looking at two more two large programs which are coming up, okay. So that also will — we will update you in the forthcoming days.
Rupesh Tatiya
Yeah, but sir, Pinaka, I mean, there is a large order out for at least INR10,000 crore order for Pinaka missiles is out. So I just wanted to understand, do we contribute to that program?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Pinaka, yes, we have contributed in the past and Akash, yes, we are right now, currently we are part of the program.
Rupesh Tatiya
Okay. Okay. And then sir, second question is Ashwini radar, I think we were expecting some order, Bharati Electronics was declared L1 and I think we were expected to receive an order. So, can you maybe give some update on that?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Yes. We are — we are part of the Ashwini radar program. We are supplying three different subsystems to this radar and already the order is placed on and then we are part of the bill — ecosystem and we have our order book for FY ’26, that is — Ashwini is part of our order book.
Rupesh Tatiya
Okay. Okay. And how about our contribution to QR SAM, LR SAM and then this XR SAM?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
These three programs, as I said, QRSAM, LRSAM, XRSAM combined now the more focus as mentioned earlier, there is a new program, which is kind of superseding all these programs and I so these programs, we are very much part of it and we have very good value in this. And so we are looking at certain good value in each of — this new program, which is almost like superseding all these three programs we’ve talked about.
Rupesh Tatiya
Okay. And which is — so when can we expect some — sorry, when can I do some tangible updates like…
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Quarter five.
Rupesh Tatiya
Quarter five.
Operator
We have the next question from the line of Shweta [Phonetic]from Arihant Capital. Please go-ahead.
Shweta
Thanks so much for the opportunity. So my question is regarding JCP facility. Will this facilities also support civilian application of UAV technologies or if you can share how much percentage of revenue growth we will expect from this facility once it’s fully operational?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
You want to take this question because we are looking at UAV, we are looking at for all the homeland security as well as for defense at this point of time. And our — most of the activities will take place in our electronic city because doing an EU UAV or drone in near airport is going to be very challenging. So we are keeping it under electronic city. And this will definitely help our growth and we may expand somewhere around there. And here the DAC facility will take care of lot of other things. UM may not be one of the items, but a lot of other things will be there. As I said, I will be circulating a detailed — I’m not circulating. I’ll put it on a nice video. We are preparing for VR show. We are explaining what we are going to do and then send you a link quickly.
Shweta
Okay, okay. So you have spoken — my second question is regarding the chip product services. You have spoken about it. So are there any partnership or project and pipeline for this vertical?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Yeah. As you know, we are working with all the four at least major chip manufacturers, Texas Instruments,, and Qualcomm. So we are working in partnership with them. We are trying to get into new partnership with STE and other companies. But these four, we have a very good relationship. We are working in partnership with them and they the customers to us. So we have all these three, especially all of them are world top — among the top-10 and so we are already working with them in partnership.
Shweta
So the partnership is being finalized or it’s in?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
We are working with them.
Shweta
You are already working with them, not finalized.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
We are working with them already. Yeah, we are almost working with them already.
Shweta
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Nirvana Alaha from Bazinet Holdings. Please go-ahead.
Nirvana Alaha
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, sir, and congrats on the clarity of communication in your presentation. That’s the strategic tone very well. Thanks for that. My question is regarding Q3 FY ’25. Can you call-out the production defense revenue and which programs contributed to it this quarter? And also what is our current defense order book?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Babu?
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
Yes, the defense program that are going on right now contributed belong to multiple programs. It includes the Arudhra, which is the medium-power radar program and also it has our direction finding system also is being deployed across multiple programs. And also we have the LCA and upgrades which are going on. We have contribution to that. And also there are many other communication system and also we are part of the Airborne early warning program and which is the AAAU and the RPU programs. So these are the ones which mainly contributed to our — the Q3 revenue in the defense programs. And also, as I mentioned to you, our systems, we have delivered out of 100 systems, we have delivered 75 that also part of our Q3 program.
Nirvana Alaha
Okay, sir, what is the number for this quarter in terms of production revenues from defense and what is the order book, the outstanding order book for defense?
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
See, you can assume that 6 times is the order book — our — from quarter numbers, you can say you can derive into four is our yearly number and our order book approximately because it all depends on the AO and acceptance of necessity. It will be approximately we have visibility for about 4 times of the value of each year’s value. In other words, our Q3 value until you can safely multiply 16 times will be our order. Okay. Just to talk about Q3 in terms of defense, the total defense revenues for Q3 was INR92 crores, of which the prototype revenues, which is for the forthcoming orders was around INR40 odd crores, the balance of it was production revenues.
Nirvana Alaha
Got it. And sir, when you’re saying 16 times, so this INR50 — INR50 crore production number, so 16 times INR50, so INR800 crores the visibility, right? Am I reading it right?
Sharadhi Chandra Babupampapathy
Both the production, you have to combine the production and prototype when you say 16 times. Production will continue. So you can safely assume 92 into 16, okay.
Nirvana Alaha
Got it, sir. Last question from my side, sir. What is the expectation of revenues from counter-drone system in FY ’26? And in which quarter are we expecting to land a new order? And on ESI side, sir, you had — you were very bullish on drone controllers. So any update on that? That’s all from my side.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
On the counter drone systems, as you know, the immediate 1 we are looking at is the repeat order and also the certain upgrades that are required to be done on our 100 systems which have been — we have been delivered. And there are several RFPs, almost more than about 10 RFPs that we have already responded and then we are in a very, very strong and full position on many of them. And so each of them, you will see these upgrades and this thing will be appearing in immediate subsequent quarters and certain the RFPs which are in-progress, the delivery is expected to happen in the — in Q3 and Q4. So you will see the counter drone systems spread across the entire financial year.
Nirvana Alaha
The drone controller?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Yeah. And the drone controller is already the — though we have — we have certain kind of designated the customers, okay, for which it is being supplied. So you will see the — you will see those numbers also over the — over the next quarters. Currently, our drone conducts are deployed by Axon. They are evaluating it. It’s a very-high end-customer, almost like that first responder drones, etc. Once we have the complete evaluation is completed, we have to get a NATO certification, etc. for a global sale. So, we are in the process of doing that. We are hoping to get very good numbers in terms of drones.
Nirvana Alaha
And sir, just go to the next question.
Operator
Please join back the queue. Thank you. Due to interest of time, we will now take the last question from the line of Mr. Sanjay Shah from Pranishta [Phonetic]. Please go-ahead.
Sanjay Shah
And hello, can you hear me?
Operator
Yes, we can hear you.
Sanjay Shah
Hi, thank you for the time. Just a lot of things are discussed during the course of this call and you have a very articulate observations and expectations on what you expect in each of your businesses over the next couple of years. Just in the interest of new investors, would it be fair — would it be all that if I had to ask you to just give us your vision over the next four to five years, where do you expect the company to be in terms of size and what kind of investments would be required to achieve that if it is okay for you to do so?
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Yeah, basically if you ask me, my personal this thing is, we want to — in five years from now or 2029, we should be — at least I want to be. I don’t know whether it will be appropriate to say it should be $1 billion in revenue and it should have at least 25% utilization. This is my vision. Don’t take it, don’t hold me responsible for that because I take — I have to take permissions from I don’t know whether I can tell that which you ask me, that’s what I would like. And we are — basically the investments we are trying to make DAC, if this comes the way I’m thinking that definitely center, it’s a huge investment and it is shaping up the way it comes and possibly it is something very achievable because the aerospace and different.
Similarly in it, as I said, the plans we are making if it is going to it’s not a going to be a difficult thing. So we are — see this is our wish its ambition and certainly I can say that if I put it in a non-financial way, we just want to be top three. We — we don’t want to be in less than that. In any activities we are doing, whether it’s aerospace or defense or definitely we should be among the top three in India in terms of revenue, in terms of EBITDA, in terms of percentage of EBITDA, whatever measures you are talking about. So that is what we are up to. That is going to be something we will be chasing.
Sanjay Shah
Okay. No, that’s brilliant. Thank you, Amit. And sorry, what did you say the kind of investments that you would require to make to possibly — I mean, I know it takes more like a wish list or some kind of…
Sampath Ravinarayanan
I mentioned earlier, the first two-parts is INR180 crores. The third-part is huge, very big. So we are going to sort of circulate what we are going to do is dry run with our customers during air show and see how many people are interested, how many people are taking and that will help us recalibrating our vision and post that it’s going to be February — whole — February, we are going to see how it is accepted by our customer — received by our customer. Based on that, we’ll come with the number and we will present it to you, in fact, the next Q1 — Q4 call, investor call, I will definitely give you the number with certain support from the customer. So we are going to circulate it among the — all the customers who are coming for India to do a dry run. So I will not be able to give the numbers, but it is huge. It’s a reinvestment required is pretty high. So — but we have — we are planning already how to make it happen.
Sanjay Shah
Okay. Super. Thank you so much and thank you for your candid responses.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. That was the last question. I would now like to hand it over to the management for closing comments.
Sampath Ravinarayanan
Sangeeta?
Sangeeta Tripathi
Yeah, thank you. Thank you to our estimate esteemed leaders and participants for your time and interest in our company. We greatly appreciate the engaging sessions and the insightful questions. Should you have any further questions or need any additional clarification, please feel free-to connect with us. You may now conclude the call. Thank you.
Operator
On behalf of AXISCADES Technologies Limited, that concludes the conference. Thank you all for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.