Astral Poly Technik Ltd (NSE: ASTRAL) Q4 2025 Earnings Call dated May. 23, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Hiranand A. Savlani — Chief Financial Officer
Unidentified Speaker
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer — Chairman and Managing Director
Saumya Engineer — Chief Executive Officer, Astral Adhesives and Paints
Kairav Engineer — Executive Director
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Kumar Saumya Singh — Analyst
Rahul Agarwal — Analyst
Keshav Lahoti — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
And so we welcome you all to this fiscal year ’25 and results and also talk about the future and scenarios and-answer all your questions in-person so welcome all of you actually the range is so high and so big so we opted for a bigger hall that everybody can see the complete range of product lines and we are also having a dealer meet thereafter from it in the same hall for Mumbai. So this year has been a very challenging year and these are the questions which I’ve been answering from morning. The polymer industry, especially everyone had a big challenging year and PVC was the most challenging polymeral where price challenge was there and following the price challenge, there was a growth challenge. But in this scenario as you can see all the four quarters, we have been giving very good results. The growth has been minuscule but the margins have been well-maintained, improved and from this you can see many questions were asked about our CPVC growth. And we don’t want to quantify people have quantified their numbers in 10%, 20%, above 20%, we don’t want to quantify the numbers but if you can see the numbers and see the margins. Obviously, the market-share and the growth of the value-added products have gone up. And CPVC range is one of the value-added products as well as the new products. Now if people have quantified the numbers at a huge growth, we don’t see any value or quantified numbers which reflect in a value addition. But in short, I’m saying that we have made growth in our core product lines and the new product lines. And we have done this growth with healthy margins. As usual, I don’t want to go into a presentation nor what is the capex cycles because this will be value — in value terms, Mr Saoani will take you through these numbers. But every plant there is a balance of expansion going on and new plants especially the Hyderabad plant is fully operational and in this year we’ll have the full range of products in pipes made from Hyderabad plant. The Kangpur plant is on the verge of completion in the construction segment and machines will start coming from next quarter. So in the 3rd-quarter, the Kanpur plant will be operational and by the year-end, it will be fully operational. We have started fitting operation in South, also in Rajasthan, and we will be shortly starting fitting operation also in East in Orissa. These are also the expansion plants which are going on and then we can easily cater to those market pipes as well as fittings. Our new range of balls especially the ball walls is complete. We are adding butterfly walls and other type of industrial and the walls which are used in plumbing segment. And this range of walls, which are specialized product will be completed by this fiscal year end. We are also adding machines in our silent pipe. We have added the capacity, almost has been doubled, even more than doubled. And our grain pro which is doing excellently well also the capacity has been increased and we are the first company in India and made in India who has got complete approval of his pipe and the fittings for ual approval for pipes and fittings for the fire application. So that is a big achievement for us. We are also getting our PEX aluminum machine around Diwali and we will be the first company to start advanced range of aluminum packs from India. And this is a state-of-art machine, a very fast machine and it will be giving the best quality of the composite pipe. Coming to the growth of the value-added products as well as the channel grain surface grains which is doing excellently well for Astel and we have been continuing to sell our value-added products and range to many prestigious projects in India if I go to the Bathware segment, the Bathware segment has given a growth of 50% in this year and it is close to INR130 crores. Still we are not at breakeven, but the growth is encouraging. The people — the market is giving a good response to our products and all our distributors, most of our distributors have started selling bathware and ceramic wear products from their end, which is also an addition for them for one more range of sales from. Coming to, has done excellently well in India, both growth and margin-wise and more discussion on, especially the growth in the margin will happen as we have our question answered. But the plant which we have put in the hedge is fully operational for two chemistries, epoxy and white glue. We are adding two more plants at Dahej in this fiscal and next fiscal to complete many of our, which will be made from the plant at Dahej. Solvent cement, the plant work has commissioned. We are coming up with a fully automatic solvent cement that is the pipe joining chemical plant at Dahej. And then we will add some capacities for some other chemistries in coming year at the hedget. So the hedge will be fully operational as well as the hedge will be almost packed up with all these adhesive capacities. We have also added machines to make our own certain products at Kampur. We are making our own tapes, the electric tape and the Teflon tape at Kampur. And we have got a good response of export of Teflon tape in US because it is approved by many buyers in US and we’ll be shortly starting exports of Teflon tape from our plant as well as sell-in the Indian market. There has been a challenging time in in UK and I hope I know that there will be many questions on that. But if you see today also many questions were asked that what would you do with UK? Why don’t you what is your thought on UK when you think of existing UK, exiting? Now that baby has been with us for 10 years. This is the 11th or 12th year, we bought it at a level of INR60 crore INR70 crores turnover, which has reached almost INR400 crores, 380 crores. Now in one year, there is nothing wrong which has happened. Let me be very frank. Yeah, there are base corrections which have to be taken place right from operations to many of these corrections. And there are some alterations coming in next two to 3/4, especially from 1/4 onwards, you will see the results as well as correction as well as the positive results of growth and value and bottom-line improvement. So there is nothing of worry in any of these segments. There are cycles in the past when we bought adhesive, we had a cycle for two years where things dipped down and again went up. And it is very much under our radar and lens and we have taken multiple measures in US, UK, which will be reflected in next two quarters in the way of results. And so I don’t want to deep-dive and tell you what measures we have taken. But as we see the correction, we’ll always discuss with you. Secondly, the biggest benefit which we get from UK and US plant is lot of chemistries have come from there. Our chemistry for silicones, our chemistry for certain adhesives and many of these chemistries have come from there. Hybrids, we have taken a chemistry in UK where we have gone four steps backward in hybrids, which will improve the margin of UK as well as India. We are coming up with an high-tech machine with the help of US UK technologists and the R&D sector, people that will be the first one making 100 colors of different cartridges, colored silicon first time in India. There will be 100 different colors of silicons offered in the market by. So there are a lot of positive things. There is nothing great about negative. Yeah, there is great about the growth and margin which will be addressed very diligently in this year. Now coming to the segment of paint because again paint is a segment where lot of these worries are there and I can understand but if you see the other way we are very miniscule in paint. Again, I want to tell everyone that paint was specifically taken to increase the business also to be in the paint business also and the industrial paint business. And especially the construction chemical business can also be increased by the paint business. And we have not put any capex behind the paint business. We had — when we acquired last year also, we said that the capacity is enough and we won’t be doing any capaction which is there. Second, last year, the worry was about graining the money. Has a positive EBITDA, EBITDA is low, but nothing minus negative. The growth is low. The reasons of two things, last — after last March, we took over when we took over 80%, we took over the control of the paint business. And till then we — two quarters went in multiple corrections and then the same continued. Last quarter, we did a good growth in paint and we continue to do good growth in paint. And as the volumes increase, obviously, the margins will improve. We had launched paint in last first and second-quarter in Gujarat. In many cities now paint is — has started selling, moving good and growing. And similarly, we have now launched the paint in Rajasthan. So we have also started doing good in Rajasthan. And phase-wise, we’ll be opening one-by-one state for Paints and South will continue to sell Paints. If you have any questions, when you have questions, we’ll be surely answering these questions on things. OPVC, we are there in OPVC. Many, many questions came that OPVC, what is your technology? Nobody questioned us about us when we went from our own Silent pipe from Wavin to our technology. It has proven. We have so many products where Astel has made products the best products and the proven technology. We have brought this technology from India, working closely with the machine manufacturer in India, it is a proven technology and we have made our product and ISI has approved the product. So basic thing is approval by ISI. There are companies from Spain, there are companies from abroad, there are companies who are advocating that the technology is issues, but there are no issues of technology, no issues of machine and everything is ISI approved. We have actually got a first order of INR18 crores of OPVC which we have started supplies and we are getting approval state-by-state for this product. We just acquired. So the rationale behind acquiring was, one is the right value. Second is PEPP, which was not there in our product-line and we needed to go in these product lines. So they had a complete range of fitting. And if we go with our own plant to make this fitting will take us five to six years with making it and approving it. They also have gas fittings, which are approved by German authority for the use of gas application lines. And they have also fittings which can be used for the waters lines, project and various projects and also for the industrial piping systems. So now we are getting four machines, three are coming and one more will come later on for making PE and PP pipes in our plants. So the rationale behind was to get into this product-line with complete range of products with pipe as well as fittings. PTMT also we have started a good response and you can see the range here and so I think we are covering all the products, we are covering all the range and it would be more happy to answer a lot of queries I think you have in mind because of this the challenging year which passed-through, the businesses which we have extended, especially the paint, the bathware business and the new polymer businesses which have — which we have entered into. So thank you everyone for coming here. Thank you for attending this one more analyst meet after the fiscal year end. And if you have more questions, we will be available. Kairav is here, my elder son,, our Director and CFO; and is here, who is the younger son. So thank you very much all of you. And our team is here also to answer your questions. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you
Hiranand A. Savlani — Chief Financial Officer
Good afternoon everyone welcome to the English meet so results are in front of you, so I will not going to discuss much into individual numbers. There’s a few slides which we are going to present you and then we will be giving maximum time to the question-and-answer session. So this is the consolidated full year’s performance. You can see in the last five years revenue growth CAGR is 16.5% and similarly EBITDA growth is 10.48%, PBT is 7.15%. PBT is mainly low because we have taken lot of hit on the amortization of the new businesses which we acquire. So to take the tax advantage, you have amortized a lot of things. So because of that, this PBT numbers are low. Otherwise cash profit, you will see it is more or less similar to the EBITDA level. This is the working capital cycle. This particularly in the month of March, the rupee appreciated. So because of that, we paid a lot of creditors early and to take the advantage of currency. So because of that, the creditor levels have gone down other way, you see that the datas days and inventory days are more or less in the similar line, two, three days here and there is there. But again, that has come down in the month of April. This is the cash position. Right now we are sitting on the net cash of INR464 crore rupees. This is the revenue breakup of our pipe coming still pipe business is contributing 72% and paint and is contributing 28%. In the coming time, you will see that this ratio will be little toward this paint and adhesive side because the base is very low this is the capacity chart, you can see that the capacity we have continuously growing, though we might not be required that much of capacity but still we are continuously pumping money for the capex. The reason is very simple that we wanted to decentralize our units and we wanted to be a pan-India region considering our vision for the next 10 to 15 years because if we will not be decentralizing our unit, then the day-by-day, if you are seeing the way polymer prices are coming down, the element of freight cost is increasing in terms of percentage. So in that case, if more-and-more you are decentralized, you will be getting the advantage of the logistic cost. So considering that in mind, we are continuously adding the capacity, though you might be seeing our average utilization will be maybe 55% to 65 kind of range. But I think once this our decentralization portion will be over, then you will see there will be a sizable improvement into that. Last two year alone, we have pumped in close to about INR1,000 crores into this expansion activity, particularly capex. But that benefit you are going to get-in the next coming five years time. So capacity building up taking price at 10.3%, while sales is happening at 13.55% CAGR. So continuously capacity utilization is improving, but still it is not up to the mark because we are decentralizing that thing. This is the plumbing business working capital cycle, similar graph because here mainly the creditor payoff was taken place in plumbing business only. So because of that, you are seeing that the net working capital days have increased, but that has again come down in the month of May. So nothing to worry on that side. That was because of the — taking the advantage of the currency. This is the graph which very important to understand that PVC price grap, you can see that the PVC is continuously falling one-way journey. Nowhere you will see, except last year in April, May, there was a spike in PVC and that’s why you see in the last year, first-quarter, the volume growth across the industries were very good. So we were also close to about 16% volume growth. And then again, it started the southward journey. So this is a continuous falling graph. And last year alone, the polymer price was down by 18%. Now in-spite of fall in 18%, you can see that in this environment also, Astral is the only company in the country which has improved the gross profit margin. So we have improved the GP by 1% and we have maintained our EBITDA. So this is what the power of the brand, I can say Astral in the market that peoples are respecting the brand and peoples are ready to pay us for the quality. Many player have tried lot of things by undercutting the value and throwing the material in the market, but after that also they were not able to grow their volumes. So customer understand that thing that quality players always going to get the premium. And that is what we are always communicating that we believe in consistency, we don’t want Jig J kind of growth also. We want to maintain the consistency in terms of growth also, in terms of margins also and that is what we are doing right now. Lot of pressures were there on us also that your competitors are selling at this price and now they all are suffering. Many projects they are getting blacklisted also. We don’t want to give anybody’s name, but everybody has started facing this problem in the market. This is a graph of paint in adhesive. Last five-year growth you can see it is 21.23, but that’s not the correct graph because paint was the addition at a later-stage. So may not be the right graph and EBITDA growth is 8.55% and PBT, again, we have taken a lot of amortization. That’s why it is showing very low. Last three year, if you see that lot of corrections we have done, new addition is taking place for dealers and that thing because of that EBITDA is under pressure, particularly in the paint business. But now I think once our volume will start picking-up from this year itself, then you will see that there will be a lot of improvement into this also. As far as the adhesive is concerned, I think adhesive consistently we are growing at 17% 18% for last 11 years from where we have started our journey in 2014. And when we started that time, our EBITDA percentage was just 6%. Now from 6% journey to this year, full-year number, we are close to 17%. I’m not talking about the last quarter where we had a close to about 19% EBITDA, but that was the peak quarter. So because of that, it was high. But otherwise on a full-year basis also, we were close to about 17%. So adhesive with this — India is continuously doing well. Even UK was also doing great for us because we are having access to the new technology from the UK and we are getting lot of inputs from our UK unit. It is unfortunate that the last year was the abnormal year for the UK company. Otherwise, last 10 year, we have seen a good number. We started journey from almost INR70 crore INR80 crore top-line in UK and from INR80 crore top-line to this year, we closed with INR346. So almost, you can say 3x, more than 3x in the span of just 10 years. So UK has also delivered a good number. This was the only exceptional year and we are confident that we will be delivering the good number from the UK also from the current year itself. So this is a very small letter, so we are going to share this presentation to you, so you can go through that also. So what is the industry outlook, what we are seeing? So we are of the view that the pricing is going to remain volatile. So just now we were coming to a year in-between we got the message that the Supreme Court has given the verdict that whatever the High Court has given the verdict in favor of to stop the few grades in PVC again the anti-dumping duty that also they host scrap and they will say that you can put the anti-dumping duty on the entire PVC basket. So sooner or later, see, we are very difficult to predict that date. But I think judiciary is seriously looking into that because a lot of injury has taken place to our local manufacturer OPVC. They are bleeding right now. So sooner or later anti-dumping duty will be there. How much will be there, everything is already there in the system, so you can see all this number. And we are of the view that once that will take place and there are high probability that whatever the destocking has taken place in the system, that will be again the normalized thing. Or if the price hike will be steep, then in that case, dealer and distributor will be overboat. I can give you an example that normally distributor is sitting between three to four-week inventory. And similarly, dealer is also look at somewhere between three to four-week inventory. Now in this scenario, current situation, many of them are even less than one-week inventory. That kind of the scenario in the ground. Now if the price rise take place to 15%, 10%, something like that, heavily price rise will be there, then they will not be coming to the normal inventory of three, four weeks. They may extra more and they will be on six, seven-week inventory also because ultimately it is nothing but it’s RV trades because they know that we are going to spend 9% for interest and here we are getting 10% or 8% kind of price rise. So there is going to be a big gain. So because of that, they normally keep the higher inventory. So one spike can come by way of you can say the pent-up demand kind of things because of the restocking in the near-future. Secondly, serious talk is going on in the country for the BAS implementation also. We all know that BIS is good for the industry because with that, lot of standardized norms will be there. Today, what we are facing the biggest problem is the anti-dumping duty on PVC on the — sorry, it would be dumping of the PVC in our country and mainly because of the carbide-based PVC, which is not a good polymer. But because it is a cheap most of the manufacturers are moving that direction because of the competition and particularly agri kind of pipe and all this thing, quality doesn’t play that important what quality has importance into the plumbing side of the category. Plumbing, you need genuinely a good-quality. There you can’t use the carbide-based PVC also. So many manufacturers are moving to that direction and that is creating a problem. Once this BIS will be there on the card, this all carbide-based PVC will go away from the system and then the polymer prices will go up also and lot of unorganized player which they are using this cheaper PVC that will also stop. So that is going to shift the business from unorganized to organized side. The time is the only answer to all these things, but there are high probability that is going to happen once this BI standard will be implemented. It will take some time, not necessary that near-term it is going to come but sooner or later that will come because talk is going on very seriously at the government level. We all know that post-election it came down substantially. So that has also created a lot of problem in the industry. And that is the reason you see that lot of infrastructure-related demand came down substantially and created a lot of issue into the liquidity side also. Many contractors were having stuck because their dues were there with the government, maybe state government or maybe central government. So because of that lot of liquidity-related challenge came into the building material industry and still that industry is passing-through that pace. Sooner or later, we are expecting now payment has already started. So hopefully in the near-term that will be sorted-out and then the new demand will come from the government side that will drive the growth into the infrastructure side also. Anti-dumping, we already discussed that on CPVC, it has already been announced and it is extended up to FY ’29. So till FY ’29, anti-dumping duty is — will be there on the CPVC destocking we already discuss okay I think we covered all this point. So what will be the revenue driver for Astral per se? This we discuss about the industry thing. So the biggest, I think growth driver which we are seeing that recently, we have opened up the three new plants. One was Gawati, secondly was in and third in Hyderabad. Okay, all these three plants are operational now. So they are going to give us the sizably good revenue in the coming time. So we are of the view that this initial stage always the low capacity utilization will be there, we have to create a dealer and distributor network. So now that is happening. So once that will be there, then these plants utilization will improve substantially and that is going to drive the business to the next level because a lot of saving is there into the logistic cost. So that is going to help us in a big way in the coming time. Secondly, our focus is continuously increasing the value-added product. Value-added product means covers whatever the normal our EBITDA margins are there, the product which are having higher than the normal EBITDA margin, we consider that as a value-added product. Our focus is increasing continuously to add these kind of products. I think few of the products Sandeepay has already discussed. So I don’t want to discuss much into that side. But our focus is continuously going towards that direction that because we know some product may not be giving you the high-volume, but they will be giving you the high-value addition. So that will help you to maintain your margin. In this difficult time when the polymer price goes down by 18%, still we were able to maintain our EBITDA margin. That is mainly because of this value addition. So value addition side, we are looking for this fire pro pipe because now recently we have got the fitting approval pipe, we were already having the approval of UL. Now we got the fitting. So that will open up the door for the export market also and the local market also because we were dependent too much on the import of fittings and all this. So that will stop. And now indigenously, we will start manufacturing everything. So that is going to help us the margin also and the growth also. Similarly, OPVC is another product, which is again also having the high-margin. So we are expecting that volume is also going to improve. Thirdly, we have recently opened up our first overseas office in Dubai. So we are targeting that all this value-added products contributions should increase from that geographies also maybe Middle-East also Saudi also or maybe you can say the African market, few selected market and some products we are exporting to Europe also. So we are expecting that in the coming time now, Hocus team is there, they will be focusing all to this value-added product. And even Dubai alone itself is very high-tech projects are coming, they may also like Astral product because all are the world-class products and it is already placed here. You can also live see that our products are not only approved in the India because we all know ISIE approval is not that stringent what the UL approval is that. UL approval, a single pipe they are keeping in the temperature at a certain level for 18 months. If up to 18 months, nothing is going to happen to your pipe, then only they give you the approval. So it’s a very stringent approval. That’s why you see none of the Indian companies ever trying to go for the UL approval. So our products are world-class, so we are having high expectation that now we have just entered into the export market that is also going to drive the next level of growth. Shift from unorganized to organized, we already discussed that now this BIS and all is going to help us, so that is also going to be there. Then the recent addition of product because Alajit Sandeep I already discussed that it’s electrofusion fitting. That was the range, which was not in our basket. We have already placed the order for the machine for pipe. Now they will be supporting us in fitting. So we will be able to complete the range. So that is also going to help us to grow that product into the Indian territory and lot of scope is there for the export market for this electrofusion fittings also. So high-demand is there in the international market also. So we are just exploring. We are shortly going to meet few of the export client and we will get the sense what their expectation from because they were trying to export, but some way another or because of liquidity concern, they were not able to complete that orders, but now we are going to sit with them and we will see that how best way we can quickly revive that relationship and target the export market for this allergy product also so then another new thing is that we are continuously spending money into the R&D side also, so that will help us to develop a lot of new things in the coming time. You can see that from the day Astral has started journey until today, almost every year, we are bringing something new to the card and that is what continued today also and we are targeting that in the coming time, we will be bringing few new products. And you will see that Astral is the company which is bringing first time many product into the country. So-far, we have brought seven, eight products as such, which we have brought first time in the country. So that is what journey is continue and we are expecting that once few products will be finalized and developed, we are working into the adhesive side also into that for development of the new product. And lot of — I think will answer this in question-and-answer session that we are working into that side also. We are working for the — some new chemistries also. Silicon, Sandeep I already discussed that we will be the first company to bring that kind of silicone with having 100 color option. No company in India has ever tried to do that thing. So these whole — lot of developments are happening in consultation with the UK company as well as our R&D department in Ahmedabad also. So this will keep continuing in the coming times. So these will continually going to drive our growth. So rest other things are there in the presentation, which we are anyway going to share with you. So I am not going to discuss much because we have already taken a lot of time. Similarly in adhesive also, you will see that continuously India operations is growing. I already told that our growth rate is close to about 16% to 17% CAGR for last 17 — sorry, last 11 year because we acquired in 2014, now we are in 2025. So that will continue to drive that thing. And there now our focus is going into the rural areas also. So that’s why we have entered into this now new Bharat concept also where we are going to target the smaller villages also, where we are going to sell them the basket of the product here in Metros, selected products distributor will be there, but in rural India, they need everything at one place. And you see in any small villages, only one or two shops will be there. So they need the basket. So due concept is moving very fast and we are expecting that is going to drive our business to the rural market. Last year, UK was having the challenge, which we already discussed, but this year we are expecting that few new things we have developed. So that is going to drive our margins also. At the same time, we have introduced few products in US market. So that is also going to drive our top-line. So this year, we are not expecting any kind of negative numbers from the UK. So once the progress will happen, we’ll keep sharing you every quarterly, but definitely we are having a lot of hope this year that revival will be there. So you can see that lot of consolidations are happening in the market. Small players day-by-days are facing problems. So that is going to help us in the adhesive business also. You’ll be surprised to know Astral is the second-largest company today into the adhesive industrial end-market. And we are the first company who have crossed the INR1,000 crore mark in India. So these are the achievement of last 10 years. So when we were entering that time, everyone was laughing that how you are going to do. When so big giants are there in the country, what are going to — you do. But today, we are the second-largest company in the country. So product innovation is continuously going on and we’ll keep introducing the new products. Export, again, same the way office is going to not only push the pipe business, but we have appointed a few people for the business also and we already started exporting our products into the Gulf. We have already appointed our distributor in Dubai. They are already selling our products. So that business is also started selling a reasonably good number I can say. I’m not going to share the exact number, but I can say that lot of potential is there for adhesive business also into the Gulf market so ADFC also more or less the drivers will be same because we are continuously going to expand our geographical reach. We are going to expand our new product categories also. So Dahej is going to be another growth driver. We are still utilized Dahej capacity hardly 25% to 30%. So a lot of scope is there for the Dahej to bring the new products into that plant. And it’s not only a new product, but the cost-efficient product, which I think we have discussed in last two years that with this day, lot of backward integration-related things are going to help us to improve our costing. And that is what you can see into the numbers also that our adhesive numbers are — margin-wise, it is improving. UK and all we discuss. Similarly in India also adhesive side, we are still not pragent across the India. Few pockets are there. We are pragent, but at the same time, our reach is not that strong. So this year and in the coming time, we are going to target that also, particularly Southern market and our reach is still low. So we are going to focus into that side also so that we can grow that market also. So efforts are going on into that direction. And you will see in the coming time, lot of revenues are going to come from the new geographies also. So what is the option value in the coming time for Astrol? The one thing is that Alajit, which we discussed because this is the complete — we are starting from zero in, I can say. So we are expecting a sizable business into that. Gas is going to be a big opportunity in the coming time. Today may not be that high, but in the coming time, gas is the future for India. So gas business is going to contribute because we are preparing ourselves. It may happen three-year down the line, four year down the line, but, but ultimately, it is going to be a very big opportunity because still India is connected very, very thinly with the gas application. So that is going to be the driver for the growth in the coming time. Secondly, bathware, our base is very low. Sandeep, I rightly said that last year we have grown 51%. So that clearly shows that side of the business is getting attraction because any product journey, it takes time to understood by the market because people want to taste that. But pipe is very simple because you are putting behind the wire, you are not seeing the product also, but is the aesthetic look product. So everyone want to see live that product and everyone want to use that product fauce every day. So the trust building always take time and that is the region we are not giving you unnecessary high expectation from the bathway because everyone is asking why not you quickly go to the INR500 crore bank? That is never going to happen. Secondly, I think many time I have explained everyone that in a project when you are taking the entry, it’s a three-year journey. First project guy will take you conceal product only. Then the finishing portion, plaster and everything will be taking place, then the outer portion will be used. And when the final painting and color and everything will be completed, then you need the front portion. So this entire journey of any project going to take three years’ time. So now I can’t force any developer that you buy everything one-go. It is never going to happen because he will buy our product at the stage level only. He is not going to put money into that. So because of that, this journey is always taking time and it is going to take time. So — but yes, we are definitely growing, peoples are appreciating our products. So we are very happy with that. The way office we already discussed that we are exporting export to contribute reasonably good in the coming time. Plus, while we have already introduced and few more while we are recently we have completed, so that is also going to be a very, very-high value-added product for. Channel drain is picking-up very well. We are the first company to introduce in-house, develop Indian manufacturer Make in India product in the country. So-far everybody was importing, but now this is very well, you can say put in comparison with the imported product and much cheaper than the imported products. So that’s why it is getting good attraction in the market. And then the, Drain Pro and all these products are continuously contributing and now the new products will also start contributing in a big way like OPVC, we discussed buyer, we discussed PTMT, we discuss PEX. We are targeting to launch somewhere in November-December. So that is also going to help in the high-end plumbing, particularly Villas, bungalows, hotels and maybe the high-end apartments also. So I can only say that last two, three years we have spent a lot of money into the capex side, but the benefit of that capex has still not come to the company. So that’s why you may feel that the — we have spent lot of money, but always capex take place first and the benefit always come two, three year down the line only. So you will see in the coming time, lot of new things will come and growth will come in the coming time. And all this spending which we have done in last two years is going to give the lot of fruits in the coming time. Thank you so much. And now we can run a very small clip for this our CSR. Thank you. Thank you everyone.
Operator
We supported this project through our foundation and we this result and this film was like how many million okay how many million people watch this?
Unidentified Speaker
10 million
Hiranand A. Savlani — Chief Financial Officer
10 so we can go for that Q&A session.
Questions and Answers:
Unidentified Participant
Sandeep by thanks for that compliment you at the start mentioned about the anti-dumping duty event that is now likely to unfold sooner than later. Whatever are your projections have you factored that in or that could be a pleasant surprise completely
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
Basically the projections after the dumping duty have not been factored but we are seeing in this year because PVC has bottomed down and the complete channel is dry and slowly the PVC will go up a little bit. Anti-dumping will be addition to that. It has not been still implemented by government. The positive thing is the order has been stayed by the Supreme Court. So with all the priorities, global priorities government has we cannot say when this duty will be in-place but overall, if you see the PVC and the polymer will have a positive impact of growth in this fiscal.
Unidentified Participant
Thanks for that. Second and final question, when we started our adhesives business, I remember you had said that we have entered two out of eight or two out of nine segments, if I remember correctly, five, six, seven years ago. What is your view now? Are we ready to enter something more of the remaining areas in the paint — in the adhesive industry or what?
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
I think let Sao me answer and he takes care of in pain or little.
Saumya Engineer
I think for the retail space in terms of adhesives and the chemistries, we have finished the complete range, whether it is woodworking or maintenance and repair or sealants or tapes. I think we have completed range, but of course we are looking at newer applications or category expansion wherever we feel is required. We’ll look into it.
Unidentified Participant
So if we talk of the entire adhesive market, would it be fair to say that we are present in every sphere or we still have some untapped?
Saumya Engineer
I think in-construction chemical space, we would still be untapped in terms of completing the product range, but we would be able to do it in next year max, I would say. But apart from that, adhesives and sealants, as of now, the range we hold can compete with the top players in the Indian market, no doubt.
Unidentified Participant
And last question. It’s always nice to hear from you what next. Anything you would like to say to that?
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
I think we have lot in our hands to do a perform and give more growth, results, expectations to build tend to fulfill it. So at present, nothing there in future no one predicts. Thank you.
Unidentified Participant
Thank you, sir.
Kumar Saumya Singh
Hi. I have five questions. So first, would you like to give any guidance on volume and value for next fiscal? That’s the first question. Subpart to it is, if we just roll-back FY ’22, we had given a number of INR1,500 crores for new growth engines. So we have some idea on bathware and paints. But if we had to put this number INR1,500 crores, which was cited for FY ’27, where are we on that road-map?
Hiranand A. Savlani
So we are not giving the individual number earlier we used to give, but because of the competitiveness in the market and lot of players are playing strong practices. So because of that, we will stopped giving the number. But I can say what we have predicted INR1,500 crore, we have almost we are closer to INR1,000 crore today. So we have completed, I think three years when we given the guidance, three — another two year we are going to target the 1,500 what we have saved. So it cover — it’s not only restricted to these products which you discussed, but it cover also, Drain Pro also, fire also, also and then another couple of products are there. I think I have given the list three years before. So all put together, I think we are more or less moving into that direction only.
Kairav Engineer
So with regards to, I think volume you asked volume guidance. See, volume guidance largely depends on two things. When the ATD comes and how much the ATD comes and when the BIS norms are finalized because that will play a very vital role in the channel restocking. Right now, the channel is working on very slim inventory levels. So if this — both announcements, if they come in the end of first-quarter or beginning of second-quarter, then the subsequent quarters, the volume numbers might be in the high double-digit also, mid double-digit also, okay. But then we are optimally aiming for a lower double-digit type of volume this year. If we get aided by this market buoyancy and market sentiment, we can over-deliver on what our projections are. But again, largely depends on PVC price movement because it will enable the channel to restock. And once the channel restocking starts at the dealer and distributor level, automatically the volume numbers will move-in a much faster manner.
Kumar Saumya Singh
That’s helpful.
Hiranand A. Savlani
Secondly, I can add what Cairov said that if you see the number of Q2, Q3 and Q4 last year, it was more or less flat, maybe 2%, 3% kind of growth was that. So base is also getting very low. So on a lower base, growing higher percentage, very-high probability. But again, these two decisions are very critical. If these two decisions are coming in favor of industry, then definitely double-digit is not a problem.
Kumar Saumya Singh
Sure. Just a related question. I appreciate we don’t disclose each of the growth levers separately. But when we look at wall stacks, Drain Pro — Drain Pro, is it fair to conclude all these three segments will be upwards of INR150 crores?
Kairav Engineer
So Drain Pro, Drain Pro is a very fast-growing product category for us, both Drain Pro and. There are many inherent benefits of the PP piping system in Drainage and it is fast getting acceptance from the dealer and from the project side also because it has a higher impact strength, it is a technology attached to it, very few players are in it and PP is a product which is very stable as far as pricing goes. So contractors and developers really like this product not only because of the physical attributes of the product, but also because that they are able to get a one-year annual rate contract or even a longer rate contract for the duration of the project that they have taken. So that said, they are secure because PVC being so volatile, lot of people are opting for PP products, not only because of performance, but also because of stability. So Drain Pro is a fast-growing product for us. Is also a fast-growing category for us. We are continuing to add the range. This year, we will be adding butterfly walls also. So every year we are adding SKUs in the side and with the starting of operations in the Middle-East with our Dubai office, we are also looking to increase our export to the GCC countries and to the African nations also.
Hiranand A. Savlani
So Ritesh, all these three put together, we will be close to INR500 crore, INR450 crore to INR500 crores.
Kumar Saumya Singh
Sure. That helps. Come to the second question I want Sandeepji to specifically answer this. Sir, if you just look at the annual report, the attrition what it says it’s 25%. It says turnover rate. I don’t understand how to infer it, but I would assume it’s 25% is attrition permanent employees and we keep on tracking LinkedIn on who is going, who is coming definitely trend is on upwards. What is it that we are doing to retain the employees or if you can reflect on the ESOP policy, I think we had one long back. So as we grow bigger, what’s the thought process on retaining employees?
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
So basically, the attrition people have nothing to do with these are on the lower-end and there are so many seniors that we will be revising our policies on seniors. So basically, we have now line of Vice Presidents, Presidents and many of these have joined. And also we have four divisions to address. We don’t have one division to address. So there is no question and discussion on that side. But the lower-end people, we did two iterations. We — there was a human cry. We said chicken and egg. We need people, you need sale. We increased the value of the manpower, everyone shouted, your manpower cost went high. Now you say manpower has been lower, the acquiration has gone high. So what we have to do, I don’t understand what your questions come up to run my business, but we did do some corrections on the manpower at the lower-end. But certain businesses, I’m telling you again understand, if somebody wants to launch a cell phone process or somebody wants to launch the building we are sitting, the same as I launched a network. When you launch something, you need manpower. So we needed more manpower in our faucet ceramic wear business. We needed more manpower for our paint business. I cannot open Gujarat without a manpower. I cannot open Rajasthan without enough manpower. So these costs for initial stages of scaling up the business will take a hit on the manpower. So that’s the cost which were gone up. We did some corrections, they reflect in the, but especially the lower-end, lower-end if you go, the — there is a big pull on in various segments and this is happening for most of these building industry companies at present because people are coming in the other — all these segments of business. But if you see the senior management, which we have in this, especially in the sales also, people are there, people are constant and people are with us. So the main is on the lower-end.
Kumar Saumya Singh
Sure. I’ll just take two more questions. Third one is also for you,. If we compare us versus, say, the larger peers or the peers that I think there’s one comparable peer. If you look at employee costs and other expenses as a percentage of sales, we are like way off the charts. So when we decide probably can also answer this on A&P spends or wherein we are deploying giving money to on the employee side or distribution. What are the levers that we have to ensure that we are getting more efficient every year? And if you can give specific numbers for FY ’26, say something like A&P or other expenses that will reduce by 1% or 150 bps, I think that would be great.
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
So two things. First of all, A&P spends, A&P spends, we have not increased, okay. Other expenses include lot of line items. It’s not only A&P. Since last two years, the A&P spends have been what they have been — they have been stagnant. Even this year, the E&P spend budgeting is not increased. Problem is that your polymer prices have collapsed 18% in a financial year. Last two years, the polymer prices have been weak. So it has erodated the top-line. If the top-line erodes, then your other expenses and employee cost as a percentage is going to balloon. Now if you are comparing to a larger peer, what peer you want to compare to because I operate in four segments, okay, you cannot compare only a piping peers employee cost versus my employee cost because I’m working in adhesive also. Requires more manpower. You can look at PD’s manpower cost. You can — you have to look at a segment where we operate in. If you’re talking about adhesive, I think what 12%, 13%, how much manpower cost there?
Hiranand A. Savlani
Peers?
Kairav Engineer
No, PD light.
Hiranand A. Savlani
PD-light Q4 was 14.5%.
Kairav Engineer
See, requires a certain type of a manpower cost. Pipe requires a certain type of manpower cost. You cannot compare apple to banana. You have to compare apple-to-apple. If you’re looking at the piping side of the business, I don’t think my employee cost is more than 0.5% higher than the other player in the market. Okay. If you want that, can give that to you for the piping side. So you can get an idea that I’m not — I’m not hiring anyone in the piping side right now. I’m very happy with the type of manpower I have. But any new plant that you open, any new office that you open, any new depot you open, you have to add the manpower. How can I function without manpower so there are multiple attributes to your question I think I would want to add to it.
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
Simple thing here you see how a company is and how is building his company. There are companies whom you are comparing the owner sits in a room and 50 gardens okay this price uta 100 guard is put out your discount. We are not running this company as a discount and this way. Our pipe business, we have today active 60,000 plus dealers who work with us on a monthly basis. We have 2 lakh plus number associated in our program, which company has 2 lakh plumbers who are ready data how much they purchase. So we are building a company with a solid foundation, which will last for years to come. Now I went into Faucet Ceramic where some of the tile companies went, I will overtake them in no time. Have you ever seen why I’m doing it? Because I have strong footage with the plumbers, my connect with the plumber, is growing at a tremendous pace. And this is where we are getting and building our — now to do all these programs, the ALP program, the dealer program going to that, I don’t tell my distributor to buy one truck more than he needs. I never phone my distributor, Sale Chaier up Mal, March NBI December NBI that will bounce-back at some time. The real sale is real sale, the real business is real business and reaching to the customer and selling the product in the hands of the customer is what we have believed in all our segments. And that is how our functional works. And what you see is a real number of the tertiary sale. No company in pipe monitors tertiary sale. We have data of tertiary sale. How much is the sale going to the customer. So the depth of the data and the work which we have done in last five, six years in the piping segment, none of the piping segments have done this work, which now is a work which is parallel to the big paint company of India or parallel to the big adhesive company of India. That’s what we have done in pipe business. And that’s how we are working in this geography of faucet ceramic where with plumbers, the construction chemicals involving even plumbers and other segments, carpenters, painters, all these datas are helping us to grow.
Hiranand A. Savlani
I think and Sandeep say if I can just add you. First we have to decide whether you want to work like a brand or we want to work like a commodity. That is the first question to be answered. If you want to sell an OPO phone, I don’t think you need a beautiful girl or beautiful boy to stand-on the showroom like what Apple is doing. Because Apple is charging the premium. Then he has to explain the features of the phone. He has to tell about the product’s quality and everything. Cost-wise, if you consider OPO in April will not be a big difference. The kind of difference between the selling price between two phones. The margins of two companies cannot be same. So here we have to decide that if we want to sell our product as a brand, then we have to have appoint a quality people with us and we have to pay for that. No quality is going to work for the organization without a right salary. So we have to spend. Now look at other way. After spending so much of salary, still we are having the highest-margin in the industry. So we have to see that point-of-view also. It’s not only cost aspect. So we have to work both side we have to see, but spending so much of amount, still we are having the highest-margin because customers are ready to pay us the premium, which other brands are not getting the premium. Somebody can say pipe is five, or pipe may say. Perfect OE, Apco,, OE PI, company,, so me there. So what is the difference? That is where these things are needed. That is where branding is needed. That is where LP is needed. That is where the good-quality employees needed. Otherwise, Sandhi, government phone does have percent discount, but she is got 10% discount. Okay, come. Respect be brand named again be premium name. So we have to decide whether Homko acre promoter driven company Chalani cake professional Chalani, RG Hiranan Sandeep by Mena and office Sale,,. Because that team is there. So we have to also look at that way also that how you are bringing the company, how you are portraying your products in the market.
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
Let’s — let’s take questions from others. You have got enough questions. No, no, no. You can ask me can you hear me that’s
Rahul Agarwal
Hi. Good evening. This is Rahul from. Sir, one, most of the questions got answered in the presentation. So thanks for that. One question was on CPVC industry. We hear that PVC industry now is almost like 4.5 million tonnes of fiscal ’25. Just wanted to get some views on CPVC industry size in terms of volume, value, whatever you can share because I think we have some dated numbers here.
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
It is around 2.5 million lakh in
Hiranand A. Savlani
It is about 2.5 lakh tonnes now. So it’s about 5% of PVC industry is a small industry.
Kairav Engineer
See, it is a very niche product. Now if you look at CPVC, the application of CPVC currently is for the hot and cold water internal plumbing and the external — some loop lines and some plumbing if you want to do. CPVC real value unlocking will happen when the fire products pick-up. Fire has shown a steady pickup over the last couple of years. So every year we are doing slightly more, slightly more than the previous year. And the type of approvals that we have, especially UL approval and the local body approvals across India. I think if the fire pipes market expands, the overall CPVC market may expand much faster because fire application, the number of pipes that are used in a building are more than the plumbing pipes.
Rahul Agarwal
So getting that fire order that’s going to be more project business is going to be more retail demand.
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
There are certain changes which are needed in these tangles which are taking time. Till that fire —
Kairav Engineer
Yeah, fire is more project business. Fireway, fire will be — fire will be done through the fire contractors. Fire contractors do the fire sprinkler works in the buildings.
Rahul Agarwal
Got it. And secondly, just to remind me of the project and retail billing for the company overall on the plumbing side, how is our sales mix essentially? Like if we are now
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
It is. So we are billing 50% directly to developers?
Kairav Engineer
No, no, we don’t bill directly anything to developers. Now
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
We feel we do everything to distribute,
Hiranand A. Savlani
100% through distributor. 100% governments like Koi distributor can be an equal thing.
Rahul Agarwal
Okay. And consumption-wise, how much would that split be for projects and retail separately
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
Like 50-50.
Rahul Agarwal
Okay, perfect. And two questions for. If you could help me with adjustive sales for India and international separately, absolute numbers for sales and EBITDA and the capex budget for fiscal ’26? That’s all from my side.
Hiranand A. Savlani
Thank you we can we can give it to you after the after the event I will give it to
Unidentified Participant
Good evening, sir. Can I just go in with my question?
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
Yeah. And yes, please question.
Unidentified Participant
Sir, just wanted to understand like you said that 2.5 lakh ton is the CPVC industry size, you would have seen years of journey, you have been the pioneer. What has been the historical growth rate and what’s the forecasted growth rate in CPVC industry?
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
Does Pandra percent value per, rightas percent, except Fire Kapoora systems are jump the fire may, other IRB if it is being approved by fire with lot of these we are we are getting through with things. People asked UL and UL is again a big process. So it will take its time to still keep on evolving.
Unidentified Participant
And same way what would be the growth in the PVC pipe industry sector leaving apart the restocking and destocking and how actually
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
10%, 15% CVC.
Hiranand A. Savlani
6% the volume growth. Max.
Unidentified Participant
Secondly on the CPVC resin front, we are going to see huge supply additions coming up in India now, which has not been the case so-far. With that kind of a supply coming in, how do you see the prices of CPVC panning out
Kairav Engineer
So I can add to this, CPVC has an active anti-dumping duty in-place till 2029. So most of these players who will incur the capex, CPV is putting up a CPVC plant is a very expensive process. CPVC process, it requires a special type of reactors. And because chlorine is a corrosive material, these reactors are worn out very quickly. So they have to incur frequent capex to install new these reactors every time, every few years. So CPVC is a business where they will — all the players whoever comes in CPVC, it will not be like a PVC market. They will need some margin to sustain the business. So it will — it will — it will sell at whatever this current CPVC pricing is there prevalent in the market. It will be around that level only because anti-dumping is also there. So they will ensure that they are making enough margin. It will not become that overnight the prices are going to fall.
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
It is not so easy to and not going to come so fast. India is a largest are smart Salse Ray, zero capacity last but capacity generally CPVC by time. Times a., a year capacity. Time boat luggage has
Unidentified Participant
Understood, sir. Sir, lastly, just ask one question. On the other growth drivers, like you said, you have mentioned about Dream Pro Pipe, Silencio, Fire Pro Pipes. You of course mentioned on your numbers being INR450 crores to INR500 odd crores. What is the industry number here and what’s the growth rate in these kind of categories like? Also in case you can give the number for OPVC.
Kairav Engineer
In the Train Pro sidelines here. Yes. There is no other player in the industry for these pipes at the moment. Understood. We are currently the only local player manufacturing and selling. There are few players who are importing and selling, but that volumes are very miniscule. So it’s not comparable. I think if the market matures in-going ahead and if there are more entrants in the particular segment, then we can see how the markets is shaping up.
Unidentified Participant
Understood. And anything on the OPVC side, any number here?
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
So if you say — if you say OPVC, if you’re thinking that OPVC can become the new CPVC, that is not the case.
Kairav Engineer
A limited application and water distribution replacing ductile iron. It is the usage is by government only, builder Koi, water distribution, now, usage. Understood, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, right now. Hello down this adhesive sales number you wanted them. You wanted sales number. This India operation full-year number is 1098 last year was 960, so net growth of 14.5%. This quarter adhesive number is 315. Last year it was 262, so growth of 20% this quarter. Anything else you want capex projections for the company for or I think will be somewhere around INR250 crore to INR300 crore banks because Kanpur is still yet to be completed because machines are yet to be installed. So that’s why you can consider 300 max.
Keshav Lahoti
Hello. Hi, good evening. This is Keshav from HDFC Securities. Sir, we are anticipating 10% to 15% volume growth for next year. At the same time, we feel UK operation will improve, paint operation margin can improve. But while we have seen Hiranan by interview, he have mentioned the margin will remain stable in FY ’26. Why are we not expecting some kind of improvement.
Hiranand A. Savlani
I have never, ever said margin is going to stable. I said the margin of India operation is going to remain stable. This world, whatever the new businesses are there, that will be top-up to that. So paint Vio said that it will be small improvement will be there this year also. UK has not given a single penny this year, zero EBITDA. So how can we say next year? Historically, you see they were delivering 8% to 9% minimum EBITDA. So margin on a consol basis, it is going to improve. And secondly, never, ever see the last quarter number only. We have to consider the full-year number and we have to also account the inventory losses also. Now next year supposed now more or less PVC is getting bottom out, okay. That is what our view. We may be wrong also. So don’t go with my view only. So — but we are of the view that the PVC is slowly and going to bottom out. Upward journey may take some time or so or maybe take quickly also. It depend on this two outcome of anti-dumping NBI. In that case, next year you may see the inventory gain also. We have delivered in the past 24% EBITDA also in particular quarter. So very, very difficult to say, that’s why we are giving you a long-term range that we will be working between 16% to 18% in the pipe category and 14% to 16% we have communicated. And last three-year number — forget about current year, last three-year number, if you see, Adhesive India business have given close to about 15.5% EBITDA margin. So we can give you only range, which may not be holding good depend on the circumstances. And now volatility is very-high, which was not the case earlier. Earlier the PVC price range was between 5%, 7% plus-minus. Now it is 20%, 20% plus-minus also. So any company can’t give the exact guidance also. So very difficult to predict the number.
Keshav Lahoti
Understood. Got it. One last question. What is the inventory loss for this quarter and for the full-year?
Hiranand A. Savlani
I think we don’t have an exact number, but definitely it should be a good number this year because continuously from 92 to as low as INR68 or something. So should be a sizable number.
Keshav Lahoti
But any idea any ballpark percentage of sales or some broader range,
Hiranand A. Savlani
Maybe it should be close to about minimum, INR60 crore, INR70 crores minimum should be there.
Keshav Lahoti
Okay, got it. That is helpful. Thank you.
Unidentified Participant
Yeah. This is Choxi from Choxi. Thank you for the presentation and best wishes for the coming year. Just two questions. The first question is on the adhesive business. We have seen a lot of regional companies like MYK, from Hyderabad and and from Tamil Nadu having significantly large presence in your core markets, which is Gujarat. The product profile is also very unique in the grouting business as far as the color applications are concerned. What is your sense on this regional competition? Because as you rightly said that in sealants, you may have maybe 100 different color applications, maybe something in the grouting also might be something you might want to look at. And how do you want to tackle it? Because we have seen that maybe pipes are — pipes is so strong in all your core markets that adhesives will probably take time and a lot of your like distributors, a lot of your Colombian community is still very, very focused on the piping business from Astral and very, very keen to have NYK or something like that in the grouting space. I just want to get a feel on these, these kind of regional companies which are so dominant and strong in terms of brand.
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
Yeah, I understood the question. MYK firstly is not a regional company, it’s a big company and very good products. One thing I’ll say is we have not even entered MYK’s domain and this year is when we enter the MYK domain with the construction chemical range so for us it will be expansion in portfolio and expansion in-product range so they are all doing their business and I think we’ll definitely go into the routing space as I was still talking to Nitin Bay also, we are planning for routing space this year. So definitely we are working on that product range. And we are it ready with the colors and everything and we are going into the cementitious range this year. We were kind of in two minds whether to go or not to go because supply-chain is something we needed to understand that it’s a little bit different than how you would sell the M&T range or white glue so you have to understand the but we understood and it’s not an issue we always have that in mind when we are benchmarking products and understanding competition. So we go into each range or each product category and then understand who all are operating within that category and then kind of make our strategies accordingly. So yeah. I hope that clears your question.
Unidentified Participant
I’ll probably come and just have over with you later. But the second question is on in the last analyst meet, actually you mentioned something on the Mumbai business like center having — like you were planning to set-up a new marketing and a digital team in Mumbai. Can you throw some light on that initiative and how you plan to scale that up, if at all, if that’s in the work?
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
We already have a full-fledged office in Mumbai. Our all seniors for business now in paint business, work-out of Mumbai and that office and the setup is well in-place growing and we are going to have big setup shifting this setup to a new setup with more seniors coming and working out of Mumbai
Unidentified Participant
Also one question on this front something about Asian paints in the paints that they can actually exactly predict what up what a dealer wants at that particular time and that particular hour, that particular paint. Do you have a system of — in that place as far as the digital is concerned as far as how your distributors will probably have that particular product or SKU of that particular line of activity in future.
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
I think what you are referring to is automatic refillment of the distribution channel where it kind of flows out and then there is an automatic supply-chain which triggers the order and supplies the material to the dealer.
Unidentified Participant
So does your distribution channel have that capability to predict that kind of what the dealer?
Sandeep Pravinbhai Engineer
So prediction is basically forecasting, so understanding what will happen. So not to the maturity of Asian, Asian definitely is master in that and it will take us time to actually get to that level and understand how the supply-chain works in terms of the paint business, but we definitely have a good systems in-place when it comes to supply-chain. We have a good warehouse management software with — we are working on auto refilling of our distributors and dealers where auto orders will be generated, so less man force will be required in terms of taking primary orders. So lot of things we are working on in terms of our digital initiatives and it will definitely improve our efficiencies and how we operate. Thank you. All the best. So I think we can take any other questions or thank you everyone for joining us for this end of this fiscal understanding from us and discussing how the future is going to shape up for the years for this next fiscal and everything is great, right? And we are keeping on the hard work and looking-forward again to meet you at the end-of-the next fiscal. So thank you very much, everyone. Thank you. Thank you.