Arman Financial Services Limited (NSE: ARMANFIN) Q3 2025 Earnings Call dated Feb. 14, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Alok J Patel — Joint Managing Director
Jayendra B. Patel — Managing Director, Vice Chairman
Vivek Modi — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Shreepal Doshi
Apurva Singh — Analyst
Shubham Jhawar — Analyst
Narendra Khuthia — Analyst
Moksh Ranka — Analyst
Aditya Pal — Analyst
Nidhesh Jain — Analyst
Bhavin Shah — Analyst
Ronak Chheda — Analyst
Srinath V — Analyst
Anand Mundra — Analyst
Presentation:
Operator
Hello ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Financial Services 3Q FY ’25 Conference Call hosted by Equiria Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone.
I now hand the conference over to Mr Shreepal Doshi from Equirus Securities. Thank you and over to you, Mr Doshi.
Shreepal Doshi
Thank you, Sagal. Good evening, everyone. I welcome you all to the earnings call of Armand Financial Services to discuss the 3Q FY ’25 financial performance and business update. Today, we have the senior management team of the company represented by Mr Patel, Vice-Chairman and Managing Director; Mr Alok Patel, Joint Managing Director; and Mr Vivek Modi, Group CFO.
I will now hand over the call to Mr Alok Patel for his opening remarks, post which we can open the forum for question-and-answer. Over to you,.
Alok J Patel — Joint Managing Director
Thank you so much,, and good evening, everybody. On behalf of Arman, I would like to welcome all of you to our Q3 and nine months ended fiscal 2025 earnings call. So joining me today is actually just Vivek, the Group Chief Financial Officer and our Investor Relations team.
I hope you had the opportunity to review the results, the press release and the presentation, which are available on the stock exchanges in our website. So apologies, I don’t think normally we provide at least 24 hours this time due to scheduling conflicts. There was a very short interval between publishing the results and the call. So anyway I’ll walk you through the results.
So I would like to begin with an overview of the industry developments, highlighting the key trends in business followed by a financial and operational performance of Arman. Over the past few quarters, the microfinance sector has faced several challenges, including Over leveraging, weakening of the center meeting discipline, deterioration of the Joint Liability Group or JLG model and rising employment attrition. Furthermore, the post-COVID euphoria experienced by microfinance institutions and in particular non-MFI lenders in the retail unsecured space, combined with a favorable regulatory environment has significantly increased household indebtedness. This has occurred despite limited real income growth placing considerable strain on borrowers’ ability to meet the repayment obligation. As a — as a result, we have witnessed delinquencies and a corresponding rise in impairment cost across the industry for the past two quarters. These challenges have directly contributed to an uptick in the default rates, further exagerbating the financial stress within the sector. In response, both Arman and the broader industry have made concerted efforts to strengthen underwriting standards and mitigate risk of over leveraging. Naturally, these measures have led to-high rejection rates and as a consequence, lower disbursements. Additionally, the increased focus on collection has also stretched the field bandwidth, further impacting sourcing efforts and contributing to staff attrition. This in-turn has led to a decline in both disbursements and AUM. These evolving macroeconomic conditions have intensified pressure on microfinance institutions, making it necessary for us to strategically recalibrate our business models. The industry-wide — excuse me, the industry-wide AUM degrowth has also resulted in liquidity issues for the microfinance borrowers. And it is essential that these challenges stabilize before the cycle reaches a state of equilibrium. In response to the above highlighted challenges, Arman has taken a cautious approach by prioritizing portfolio quality and collections over growth. While this has resulted in lower disbursement and AUM contraction, we believe that this long-term strategy will strengthen our financial resilience in the long-run. As on 31st December 2024, our consolidated assets under management stood at INR2,280 crores, reflecting a year-on-year decline of 6.5%. Disbursement for the quarter amounted to INR338 crore, while the nine-month disbursement stood at INR1,170 crore, down 28% from the previous year, of course, due to the reasons mentioned previously. Our gross total income for the quarter was INR164 crores, almost INR165 crores, down 2.4% year-on-year, while for nine months, it grew by 10.9% to INR530 crores. Pre-provisioning operating profit or PPOP stood at INR69 crores for Q3, down 4.7% year-on-year, but grew by 13% to INR231.6 crores for the Nine-Month period. Now moving to the segmental performance. For the microfinance business, our wholly-owned subsidiary Nambra Finance reported an AUM of INR1,768 crores as of December 31, 2024, a decline of 13.6% year-on-year. Disbursements for Q3 FY ’25 stood at INR214 crores compared to INR459 crores in the same quarter last year. The cautious lending approach — approach along with aggressive provisioning has impacted short-term profitability with Q3 profit after taxes at rupees I show as well at a loss of INR17.2 crores due to increased impairment cost of INR67 crores this quarter. However, despite these headwinds, number of — for number of finance, we continue to maintain a strong capital adequacy ratio of 45.7%. Our gross NPA for the microfinance business stood at 4.4%, while net NPA was only at. MSME, two-wheeler and lab, which is part of our standalone Orman entity. This business delivered an encouraging growth. AUM for this segment grew by 30.9% year-on-year to INR512 crores. This segment’s gross total income for Q3 FY ’25 stood at INR44.9 crores, growing at 32.4% year-on-year, year-on-year while PAT increased to INR9.9 crores, which is about 5.7%. As of 31st December 2024, capital adequacy for the standalone Arman entity stood at a healthy 39.45%. From an asset quality perspective, GNPA for MSME stood at 3.43% and for two-wheeler stood at 4.03%. Despite industry challenges, this segment remains resilient and continues to support the company’s overall growth trajectory. The new loan against property or micro segment introduced last year. Although it is at a pilot stage right now has gained encouraging traction. Presently the product is offered in Gujarat and piloted in Telangana and MT. It’s about 1% of the AUM so-far, the focus of this product is on Tier-3 and 4 and rural locations where we are expecting a good growth in the coming years. The average ticket size of lap loans currently is about INR4.5 lakhs. Now coming to the liquidity and borrowing, our liquidity position remains strong with cash and bank balances, liquid investments and undrawn CC limits amounting to INR262 crores. Additionally, we have INR120 crores in undrawn sanctions from existing lenders, ensuring continued financial flexibility. Total borrowings stood at INR1,765 crores with a diversified funding mix. Of this 34% was from banks, 11% from NBFCs and financial institutions, 20% from NCDs and direct assignments or off-balance sheet liabilities contributed to about 30%. The rest is borrowed from DFIs such as Nabad and CDB and others. This miss reflects — this mix reflects our ability to maintain funding access despite industry headwinds. On the collection efficiency side, collection efficiency for the month of December 2024 stood at 95.3%. The segment-wise collection efficiency for the nine months FY ’25 stood as follows: microfinance 95.2, MSME 96.2, two-wheeler 95.7. So before we open the floor for questions-and-answers, I would like to take a moment to highlight some of the strategic initiatives that Arman has undertaken in response to the current challenges. We have reinforced our underwriting standards to ensure stronger asset quality and have expanded our collection team to improve borrower engagement and repayment discipline. Additionally, we have introduced a dedicated credit department at the branch level, which focuses exclusively on maintaining credit quality. In a sense, we have now completely separated credit from sales in microfinance. Encouragingly, early indicators from December and January show improving trends in the credit cycle with zero DPD flow forward rates stabilizing. While it’s little too early to tell whether we have reached the bottom, should these trends continue, we will adapt our business strategy accordingly. Although we have experienced a temporary slowdown in AUM growth, we remain confident in our ability to navigate these challenges in the industry and position Arman for long-term sustainable growth. Thank you very much. And now we can open the floor for questions-and-answers.
Questions and Answers:
Operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, you may press star and 1 to ask A question. Our first question comes from Apour Va Singh from Pancharatna Investors. Please go-ahead.
Apurva Singh
Hello.
Alok J Patel
Yeah, go-ahead.
Apurva Singh
Yeah, am I audible?
Alok J Patel
Yes.
Apurva Singh
Yeah, good evening. I just wanted to understand what are the green shoots you are looking for to understand the cyclical turnaround and what measures you’ve taken for recovery?
Alok J Patel
See as far as green shoots are concerned, typically what we look at to judge whether we are coming out of it is zero DPD flow forward rates. This means new people who are previously are paying regular who have now crossed — who have become one day overdue at this point. So normally in the MFI segment, we would experience that at about 99%. So there would be 1% flow forward.
Now again just because something has slowed forward, that doesn’t mean it will get written-off. Obviously, at every bucket, there are repayments that happen. But we typically track flow forward rates quite closely at every bucket. Now this will be too much details to get into, but until the zero DPD flow forward rates return to, I would not say, okay, this is over or this is behind us.
Now that being said, we have seen at least for the last two months, zero DPD flow forward rates have been 98% plus. So I think it was 98.03 in December and 98.15 in January. This month-in February, zero DPD flow forward again I think till now we are about 35 to 40 bps ahead of previous month-on a month-to date. So again, I’m not superstitious, but in days like this you become a little superstitious so I don’t want to jinx anything but you know obviously there is minor improvements in the zero DPDs you know in the last couple of months
Now as far as the initiatives taken, I mean there are many, many initiatives obviously on a day-to-day basis we work on all of them. Some of the larger ones is see people who follow microfinance will know there was always a bit of a conflict of interest between credit and sales where at the operational level, at the branch level you know, microfinance principle was that the guy who does the disbursement does the collection and so while there was obviously a credit mechanism at the HO level and at the regional levels, it was not at the branch level.
We have completely separated that now. So at least so-far about 120 branches by March we will reach most if not all branches. And the idea being is that if you cannot rely on JLG or JLG culture anymore, which — again, it’s too early to tell whether it’s completely gone or if this is just a blip in otherwise very successful model, which we have been following. Arman has been following for 15 years, but the market has been following for or the industry has been doing for better part of five decades almost, right? So that is one initiative.
Another is that we have started with CGSMU so that is I don’t know
Jayendra B. Patel
That kind of is the CGSMU is the guarantee cover being provided through the government NCGTC, the national kind of credit guarantee cover scheme. So that is available for microfinance borrowers. So we’re probably one of the few microfinance entities, which have already enrolled. And as of quarter three disbursements, which let’s say, about INR200 crores of disbursement that have taken place in-quarter three have a guarantee cover through the CGFMU.
Alok J Patel
So the guarantee is a little complicated like all of these things get, but essentially what it covers is about 72% of your principal in default, ignoring time value of money. So let’s say your default is 100 rupees, they will give you INR72 rupees and 28 rupees the company has to eat it for which we pay a premium. It’s sort of a default insurance and basically how the math works is that considering time value of money and all those other things, if your overall static pool losses at this point with what we are paying them crosses about 3.5% you’ll make money and-or you will come out ahead and less than that.
But again, let’s not get into — this is not a profit-making. This is not a profit-making venture or anything. It is to buy me better sleep, if that makes sense.
Apurva Singh
The focus is clearly visible. Thanks a lot.
Alok J Patel
No, and again, I’m sorry for the long-winded answer, but I’m sure Kid, something similar to these questions were there in probably most of the people’s minds. So that’s why I took my time on this question.
Apurva Singh
No, no, this is really helpful. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from Shubham Jawar from Dexter Capital Advisors. Please go-ahead.
Shubham Jhawar
Yeah, hi. Am I audible?
Operator
Yes.
Shubham Jhawar
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I’ve had a couple of questions. The first one being, sir, on what DPD do we write-off the loans?
Apurva Singh
So I think right now we are writing-off quicker than so the policy is — the policy, the policy is anything which has not paid us for the last six months once the account turns 180 plus. So essentially anything which is over and above, let’s say, 300 is automatically written-off. But as of — I mean, right now we are writing-off anything which is not paid us after it has turned NPA, that is 90 DPD. So essentially anything which is 250 days or 240 days plus will get acknows.
So basically we are being slightly more conservative and everything over about 250 days if we see no hope of any recovery is rated up.
Shubham Jhawar
All right. And sir, basically also one — I wanted to understand basically for customers who are flowing from DPD bucket, right, for example, DPT 30 to DPD 60 plus, what extent do we try to take to stop that net forward flow?
Alok J Patel
Okay. So there are lot of initiatives. So first of all, we have RO mechanism, recovery officers that now we have about 350 of those and you know that will continue to increase. So those takeover at the AFO level, we have various schemes. We are using bot calling, we are using auto calling, we are issuing legal notices. Yeah, 90 or 180 plus. So everything that you under the sun that you can think of you are doing, okay, but again, I’m open to ideas.
So if anybody has any clever ideas, I’m all, you know anything to increase the collections.
Shubham Jhawar
Right. And
Alok J Patel
You have to be careful. You have to be careful with these customers. I mean, you cannot, you know you cannot use high-pressure tactics because the kind of customers that you are dealing with that is obviously not something that I would encourage.
Shubham Jhawar
All right. Sir, my another question was, I wanted to understand more on over-leveraging, right? So as I understand, the first guardrails had been announced somewhere in August of 2024 and the second guardrails were announced in November 2024, right? I wanted to understand since before these were announced, what were our internal guidelines that we followed, which ensure we weren’t exposed to any over leverage in the borrowers?
Like what was our internal guidelines before the first guide first guidance itself.
Alok J Patel
So we were using FOIR like everybody else. So this will require a bit of a history lesson but prior to April 2022, there were hard-coded over leveraging What you Call-IT rules that were issued, but it could be the third lender whatsoever. That you couldn’t — I think you could be the third lender important lender or something. So you so no more than two MFIs or no more than three lenders. The three lender norm was by NFIN more than anything else. But again, this only applied to MFIs. Now, it was a time when MFIs were controlling 80%, 90% of the market. Today, we are probably controlling 40% 40 — at the most 40% of total household debt of the. Of this MFIs, although our portfolio has increased, there are now there are many, many players that are servicing rural segment, right? Now in April 20 — after April 2022, all of those in a deregulation by RBI, lot of changed, including removing those caps and what cap they imposed was a 50% FOI. So you assess that and their installment should not be more than 50% of what they are earning, right? So all-in all, that hindsight is 2020, but all-in all, that seemed like a good measure, right, that you look at their household income and their could not cross more than 50% of that. So largely lot of people were not looking at this plus 1 plus 2 plus 3 or anything. We — we had numerous underwriting standards which were in-place. So first of all, we were looking at all loans, not just MFI loans because MFI was losing ground in term of market-share. We were looking at husband why we were looking at default rates. We were not even entertaining a customer who was one day overdue anywhere else. So there were various measures which were there in hindsight, yeah, I mean, number of lenders is something that we found a close correlation. But let me tell you even right now, 46% of our customers have an exposure of less than INR50,000 rupees total. You know, 60 — excuse me, 60 or 44% of our customers have a total loan exposure, including all loans of less than INR1 lakh rupees, right? So I don’t want to put over leveraging is the only problem here. I mean, there are lot of — see problems like this rarely occur due to one issue. I mean, there are always multiple issues and it’s like the Swiss cheese model where it has to pass-through a lot of holes to get here. So I acknowledge percent of the issue is definitely over leveraging, but there are many other issues you know debt has increased, aspirations have increased, culture has changed, JLG got diluted and I’m willing to accept my share of the blame for whatever has happened. But I will not completely say, okay, it is due to over leveraging or weak credit. There are many, many aspects here. And honestly, right now, the biggest issue is, credit has stopped, right? I mean, credit has rudal. Disbursements are like half of what they used to be. Okay. See, when you stop liquidity, obviously, things are going to get worse before they get better.
Shubham Jhawar
So last two questions and then I’ll again quickly join back the queue. The first was, key, is there any like what is the standardized process for income assessment both at the industry level and that we follow at Arman?
And the second question was, what are our loan officers and collection agents, how are they inced — incentivized is what I mean, these two questions
Alok J Patel
To answer your first question, we have completely revamped how we are assessing income. So I mean that will be
Shubham Jhawar
— when did we do that?
Alok J Patel
So I think we started the initiative in August and so with the new BCM structure that I was mentioning earlier, the credit — earlier again that conflict of interest, right, the guy who dispersed in-the-money was assessing the income.
Shubham Jhawar
Correct.
Alok J Patel
And now today, there is an independent person whose bonuses and everything depends on asset quality. But rates are like 80%, 82% right now, right, right? And that’s not something to be proud of. I mean, it’s very few lending businesses can run with that kind of rejection rate. So something or another has to change, but anyway, that’s fine. Like I’m not too concerned about AUM declining during demonetization, it had declined by a third during COVID. Once things are over, things catch-up back very quickly.
So that is not my concern. My concern right now is simply on asset quality and 90% of our time goes towards that. Management bandwidth is stretched, field bandwidth is stretched on collections and repayments so disbursements will come back to normal in due course of time but that is not my priority at this point.
Now how are we incentivizing see field officer incentives you know, I mean on average they are like around 2,500 rupees. So that’s a mix of lot of things but nowadays with attrition and everything the way it is and every month being different than others, we rely a lot on R&R kind of incentives. So we’ll have certain zero DPD targets or collection targets and those things or we’ll have multiple contests.
The actual incentives ourself have gone down significantly overall in exchange of this salary and this is what you know the field offices are demanding and given the attrition, you kind of have to deal with that. Collection people, on the other hand, obviously, their incentives matter on what buckets they are collecting. So harder the bucket, the more money they get. It’s a standard system that pretty much everybody follows, including HDFC Bank and banks and NBFCs and whoever else.
Shubham Jhawar
Right. So my apologies, I couldn’t understand once the income assessment wait, could you please elaborate that once again?
Alok J Patel
So the income assessment lot of is based on judgment. We will try to get evidence as much as possible depending on the kind of occupation that they are doing. So the simplest way to explaining is that if they you know they are in a large part of our portfolio goes into cattle. Depending on the number of cattle they have it’s easy to guesstimate what kind of income they will be having.
Other occupations, it really depends on a case-to-case basis.
Jayendra B. Patel
It’s also depending a lot of declaration that the customer might
Alok J Patel
— but nowadays, we are not really paying much attention to the sell directly.
Jayendra B. Patel
That’s wherein the DCM or the credit evaluation becomes more independent and assessment by the company.
Alok J Patel
Over and above that, there is also a lifestyle assessment that we do. So there are what kind of house they are living in comparison to people who are you know their neighbors, what kind of facilities do they have? Do their children go to school? Do they not go to school? So there is a whole form that is there.
I mean, if you’re interested, we can Vivek will walk you through it in a separate time, but unfortunately, I don’t — I don’t think this is the right way — a right place to kind of walk-through it right now.
Shubham Jhawar
Sure, sir. Sure. And sir, what is our loan write-off this quarter-out of the total impairment?
Vivek Modi
It’s about INR45 crores.
Apurva Singh
INR45
Alok J Patel
If you’re talking of number alone. Yeah, yeah. Number in total as well, the consolidated.
Jayendra B. Patel
I think my lab would to refer to this presentation, but we’ll carry somewhere there.
Shubham Jhawar
Sorry, sir.
Jayendra B. Patel
I carry somewhere in the presentation, but ’25 and number on about INR4 odd crores in Arman, so INR45 plus for about INR40 odd crores.
Shubham Jhawar
Your. Thanks. Thanks, sir.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from Narendra from RoboCapital. Please go-ahead.
Narendra Khuthia
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible? Yes, yes, please go-ahead. Yeah. So sir, given that we are in, are we in a position give any growth or credit cost?
Operator
Sorry to interrupt your voice is coming very low. If you are using speaker phone, may we request you use handset or something please.
Alok J Patel
So it’s cutting off. So I’m missing some of the words.
Narendra Khuthia
Is it better now, sir?
Alok J Patel
Yeah.
Narendra Khuthia
So my question was that given the situation that we are in currently, are we in a position to give out any guidances Regarding AUM growth or credit cost for the next year?
Alok J Patel
Was I cannot even give you a guidance for next month. So I mean it’s I’m kind of joking, but the fact is, any guidance is meaningless at this point. I mean, we don’t know-how the next quarter is going to look like when, when the things. So until things stabilize unfortunately, no, I’m not in a position to give any guidance.
Narendra Khuthia
Thank you so much and
Alok J Patel
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Mok from Aurum Capital. Please go-ahead.
Moksh Ranka
I wanted to understand since the JLD model has suffered, so are we moving more towards secured mix? And will our AUM growth be mostly towards insurance only?
Alok J Patel
Are we moving more towards what could you say?
Moksh Ranka
So mostly secured mix lap and two-wheelers and MFI disbursements will be low?
Alok J Patel
No, sir, LAP is a long-term play. I mean, just as we started MSME in 2018 about like five, six years ago and now it’s INR500 crores. I mean, we really don’t — we are not a kind of company that moves very quickly sort of boring in that way. So LAP is a long-term play and yes you are right we would like to get into a more secured kind of a book but I don’t think the secured book is going to be meaningful for at least two, three years, you know. And secured is a whole another beast really. I mean, you know, if I open up a shop to give unsecured loans, it’s very easy to sell those loans.
If I open a shop to give secured loans, then it’s not that easy. I mean actually you got to find customers who are willing to mortgage their house for their business and stuff. So it it’s a different business in many ways and but I guess one-way to answer your question is if I could, yes, definitely I would. But today, I don’t see it having a meaningful — I mean, definitely we can target like a 5% to 10% over the coming three, four quarters.
To say, okay, the majority portfolio will be that is — I wish it was the case.
Jayendra B. Patel
And microfinance is kind of here to stay. Yeah, we are through right now in middle of a bit of a crisis if we can put it at a sector level.
Alok J Patel
Yeah. But microfinance, I mean, it’s not going out of.
Moksh Ranka
I mean,
Alok J Patel
All you have to ask is there a need for this product? And I don’t think 99 out of 100 people you ask is going to reply, yes. So there is a need for unsecured small-ticket loans in the rural segment. You know, I was saying this to even people at RBI. I think I said it last-time also, but I’ll say it again, since the 60s, Indian government to their credit has been trying to push the financial inclusion agenda, right, starting from farm credit to PSU banks to PSL banks, to cooperative banks, to RRBs, to bank linkage, Nabad you know MFIs I mean you name it to their credit. They have done it all.
Everybody has been so concerned to make sure money reaches at the bottom that nobody was too concerned about too much reaching the bottom, right? So, so in many ways you know if it helps you sleep better night this is this is a success and you know it’s a success of the financial inclusion agenda at least the reach part now all we have to worry about is how to assess them better and convince the customers to repay us better. Incomes — real incomes have not really increased since COVID.
I think if you look at real incomes in the rural, they have increased by 0% to 1%. You know a lot of these guys in hindsight again I’ve gone to the field myself were supplementing inflation with loans one-way to put it. So I acknowledge that there were a lot of things broken but you know the first step of solving a problem is first of all admitting there is a problem and b finding out what that problem is. And I think all of us and I’m not just saying the company, I would say the industry at large has grasped both of those things, has acknowledged that there is a problem and now we are aware of what those problems also are. So give us some time, we’ll fix them.
Moksh Ranka
So my second question would be like don’t you think NFI as a sector, our business model is quite fragile because if you look at generally, we are — our cost of borrowing will be very-high. On-top of that, we need to carry a very-high number of field force for collections. And because of that, our costs are going to be very-high as compared to a fintech or maybe a bank.
So don’t you think our business generally our business model as a whole industry is quite fragile
Alok J Patel
I mean, you know, exactly 12 months ago people were calling it very resilient so I guess the flavor of the month will change every quarter.
No, but I mean I’m not exactly sure how to answer that. I mean if you’re comparing us to fintechs, let me tell you that is not the right comparison to make fintechs in this in operating in rural, unless they have a good method to collect the money is a picking time bomb according to me but again what? What the hell do I know? The as far as banks I mean you know they’ve had a good 80 years to do it and they have not managed. So if banks were in a better position to do what I do, then why haven’t they? You know I mean they’ve clearly had adequate time to do it. So again, I’m not exactly sure how to answer your question.
Moksh Ranka
Okay. My last question would be like what would be our cost of borrowings?
Alok J Patel
So marginally, I would say it’s about 11.5% if you include everything else in it costs a quarter for the nine months turning out to be about 12.86. Yeah. So all-in for. But the increment of the marginal cost, as said is.
Moksh Ranka
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I’m wishing you all the best. Hope you have a good day. Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of from MSA Capital Partners. Please go-ahead.
Aditya Pal
Hi, thank you so much for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Alok J Patel
Yes. Thank you. Please go-ahead.
Aditya Pal
Sir, just wanted to understand from you that say four to six quarters, the disbursements that we have originated. How have they performed on a cohort basis — quarterly cohort basis? So if you look at last 12 months, better, but in microfinance, first-six months, you don’t really see a lot of defaults. So it’s hard to judge at this point, but no, because just trying to understand the momentum where we are at, right, because I understand. So if you are saying the stuff which we have, let’s say, dispered between April and April, May, June, right?
Alok J Patel
No, let’s say, let’s say 12 — let’s take December ’23 onwards, right, because that will give a good runway for you. I mean, obviously that will be — that will not look good.
Aditya Pal
Understood.
Alok J Patel
This was, you know, I would say the peak of the bubble, if this is what it was, was Q4 of — Q4 of FY ’21. FY ’24,
Aditya Pal
Yeah, understood.
Alok J Patel
So that’s when the most amount of over leveraging would have taken place. And so your — after all said and done, if you do a static pool analysis, that will be the worst quarter all considered.
Aditya Pal
Understood. And the last — at least the last nine, nine, 10 months, the book that has been generated, they have been performing adequately in your —
Alok J Patel
Yeah. Yeah, it’s adequate as a word. I mean nothing to write home about to be honest. It’s not —
Vivek Modi
I mean largely what you want to compare it with. I mean, if I were to compare it with pre-COVID kind of a scenario, obviously, these last Nine months performance may not kind of compare directly with the pre-COVID kind of position because the behavior of the customer has changed.
Alok J Patel
Right, right. But is it performing then the rest of the rest of the book at INR1,800 crores of total AUMs, INR600 crores during the last nine months or six months.
Are this INR600 crore doing better? Yeah, obviously, they are doing much better. See, what makes this current crisis that we are facing very different than what we have faced in the past is that in the past, we could essentially buy ourselves out of whatever trouble or the industry could rather buy themselves out by dispersing good-quality customers which were plentially available, right? So post-COVID, post, we grew substantially by the time you got into taking care of the bad customers, the good customers are replaced.
Aditya Pal
In today’s scenario, when the portfolio is falling, obviously the denominator effect works both ways, right?
Alok J Patel
So — so that is — that is why on a static pool today, my numbers will look better than what it is right now because the portfolio is declining. So again, everything is all relative, I understand. So let’s not get into nuances of what-if and whatnots.
Aditya Pal
No, not getting into nuances, but just trying to assertain where the momentum is heading, right, because
Alok J Patel
No, I’m not talking to you. I’m not talking to myself, I’m sorry. So no, so yes, the portfolio that we have created in the last six months looks much better than what we have otherwise to answer your question simply. But it is not like pristine or anything like that what we experienced on a post-COVID.
Aditya Pal
Understood. And there has been a sharp increase in our 31 to — par 31 to 90 as well it is specifically speaking about MFI. So it has gone up from 4.4 to 7.1%. How to read
Alok J Patel
Was in March, I believe and 7.1% is currently right.
Aditya Pal
True. So how to read into this and what will be — what would be the flow-forward rate do you see — do you — do you see that you can adjust this over here rather than it flowing deeper into our NPA buckets.
Alok J Patel
I mean, you know it’s there isn’t much to read from it. It’s not like it’s certainly not good. I mean I, I have no I have nothing good to say about it, except to say it is what it is. We are working on it. Flow forward rates, if it adds if it gives a little bit of comfort are improving at every bucket.
So but yeah, I would say that we are watching those numbers very closely. All buckets we are watching very, very closely and so we are trying to do everything that we can.
Aditya Pal
So on a consol basis, we’ve done a INR175 crores of credit cost which INR150 odd crores is number for the nine months. So how bad do you see — do you see this entire a worsening of asset quality or higher write-offs being pushed to FY ’26 because we should start growing now, right, at least from this quarter onwards or maybe from FY ’26, we should start having some growth.
So not just not just growing, but even the base effect will kick-in, right?
Alok J Patel
No, so I think disbursements will improve. We are seeing improvements in disbursements in Q4. So disbursements will improve. As far as growth goes, again, I don’t think that will happen till Q1 what was your
Aditya Pal
Point for the credit cost. So when does — when does it — when — how should of personally that
Alok J Patel
Your question is, if your question is, are we pushing anything forward for FY ’26, the simple answer is no, absolutely not. So I think people who have known us in the past will attest care. We have not done any top-offs, not done any restructuring, not done any net off type things. And so-far, we have not done any ERC type transactions either which is not to say, I’m about doing those, but you know that’s — we have not done it yet.
So whatever needs to be taken care of has been taken care of.
Aditya Pal
So the reason I’m asking all these questions is just to summarize quickly is that for an average an MFI loan is anywhere between 18 to 22 months, some players also do 24 months. But on an average industry is 20 22 months. Now if we see when the crisis started, if we say that if we call FY ’24 as peak, so we are already 50% inside the — through the journey. Of that entire credit cycle being weakening, worsening.
So now things have to start to give in, right?
Alok J Patel
Crisis, if you say that the crisis started in April, we are nine months into it. So by your logic, we still have about 15 months-to go, 24 months car loan, like a 24 months. Right.
Aditya Pal
That is a fair assessment to make.
Alok J Patel
To consider that the first-quarter there were no like real changes. I mean, people just started seeing an uptick in the Q2 in — I mean the people just started seeing uptick in repayments, right? And then there was heat waves and elections and stuff, which I openly said I mean this is India it’s always hot here there’s always an election somewhere. So anyway I think we wasted the first-quarter in just saying, okay, this is a temporary blip and it will recover.
So really the — I would say until August, nobody really took it seriously. Now post-August, obviously everybody has kind of been I don’t want to say panicked or anything like that, but you know, taking it very, very seriously including the industry and everybody. So I think — listen, I think my estimate which I gave 1/4 ago remains the same that we will see the bottom by March. Already I feel that we have probably reached the bottom, but I’m refraining myself from that conclusion because I don’t have the data available with me to Call-IT yet so and then from Q1 I would say you should start seeing an improvement.
But improvement also to get back will take about a few quarters, right? So it’s not like it’s going — it’s going to happen overnight.
Aditya Pal
Definitely, definitely. It’s a lending business.
Operator
So request you return to the question
Aditya Pal
Yeah, I’m done with my questions. Wishing the team all the very best.
Alok J Patel
Thank you. And thank you.
Aditya Pal
Thank you so much for taking the time.
Operator
Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference. Please restrict yourselves to two questions each. If you have any follow-up questions, please rejoin the queue. The next question comes from the line of Nidesh Jain from Investec. Please go-ahead.
Nidhesh Jain
Sir, can I share well plus data for the microfinance book?
Alok J Patel
Par one plus data, Vivek, you have that. It’s in the presentation.
Vivek Modi
Par one data may not be there in the presentation, but you can go to the second question if you have while we kind of pull that out.
Nidhesh Jain
So the second question is, what is your assessment of the stress in your book on the microfinance side and given that there will be certain percentage of customers who are stressed and once those are identified as the GNPA or stress, then the ex of that, the book should perform reasonably well, right? So what is the assessment of stress on the book and the microfinance side in your view?
Alok J Patel
I’m not sure I understand you’re not very clear. What is my opinion on the stress of the microfinance book? Is that what you’re asking?
Nidhesh Jain
Yes. So probably let’s say, 10% customer — 15% customers are stressed once those customers have — have recognized as par one, then the rest of the book should start behaving reasonably well, right? So what is your assessment that this number is 10%, 15% in your view?
Alok J Patel
So I would say that again, please don’t quote me on this, although this is recorded. I would say about 20% of the customers are stressed in the industry. And why I say that 20% number is that 80% of my customers pay me on.on the second that it is due, the money , right? So about 20% of customers will be late by an hour, two hours, five hours, five days, whatever, or don’t pay me at all so if I were to extrapolate maybe 20% are under stress.
Nidhesh Jain
So the power 1% you were referring to was about 3%
Vivek Modi
Yeah, yeah, people have skipped one installment and
Alok J Patel
Either stable or better. So you have 2% zero DPD flow forward and another one will be stable at one.
Nidhesh Jain
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And sir, in your assessment with all these guardrails coming into force industry becoming much more conservative, do you think this over-leveraging problem will be solved or we expect further cycles, let’s say, three years down the line down the line because our industry will again go overboard and again over.
Alok J Patel
No, I, you know, I don’t think so believe it or not I have experienced a lot of over lending and over leveraging in my career including many bubbles. So see if it was only the MFIs who are controlling the industry, I would say, no, it should not happen again. But you know, we are now controlling NBFC MFIs are controlling 4 lakh give or take, INR4 lakh crores of an industry which is INR10 lakh to INR12 lakh crores. If you consider rural lending, right, I mean you have INR2.5 lakh crore, 1.5 lakh in retail to the customers, customers another 2.5 or so to the spouses.
And again these are estimates. So these are nothing you won’t find this hard data available on the net. So now it has you know, earlier on every Tom Dick and Harry was coming into rural lending because they thought it’s high returns, high-margin, you know even people who had nothing to do with lending money, the only way they could monetize their business was you know, through lending lot of technology companies and other ones are refrain from using names or anything.
Now all of that euphoria has gone right. I mean companies who had no business being in this industry post COVID and post deregulation came in rose now I think MFI is never waste a good crisis. So I think we kind of pick ourselves up, make the adjustments and move on with life. But until everybody else kind of sees that I’m not exactly I don’t know, I don’t know and maybe I’m being too pessimistic but the fact is Indians have a very short memory will everything will be done and dusted and 2-3 years later people will forget and life will go on.
That’s the way it should be really. Life is too short to be dwelling on the bad days alone.
Nidhesh Jain
Sure, sir, that’s it from my side. Thank you.
Alok J Patel
So again, to simply answer your question, I hope so go-ahead. Next question.
Operator
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Shah from Sameeksha Capital. Please go-ahead.
Bhavin Shah
Good evening. So what has changed in last two or three months where so that flow rates are decreasing. So is it a structural change or let’s say, due to the crop season, people are earning the money and paying back and then again this issue may come up again?
Alok J Patel
No, nothing like that. We are just running out of stressed customers.
Bhavin Shah
Okay. But there is a liquidity issue. So let’s say, borrowers who had three, four loans. So what is your assessment? Are they paying only one MFI or are they with letting go up to other three MFI because they are not getting any other money for the new loans, right?
Apurva Singh
Actually an excellent, excellent question. And see the — there is about 8% of cases that we have that people are paying us and not paying others or vice-versa, people are not paying us, paying others and but in my opinion this thing about me and they won’t pay other. I mean it’s a myth. Practically speaking it really does not happen. Most of the defaulters and I would say 90% plus if they stop paying one they stop paying others. So that is number-one.
Number two, in our DI team, I mean, we look at a lot of data and now that we have business intelligence also, we have noticed that whether you are, you know, Arman plus 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, whatever it may be, the lowest defaults are amongst the customers who have remained stable at the number of MFI. So let me let me explain that better. What we have found is that let’s say when I originate the loan right which today for some reason everybody is tracking plus 1, 2, 3, 4.
Honestly, I think people are paying too much attention to this. But anywhere as I’ll hold my thoughts to that. Let’s say somebody that I led money to that I thought was a good customer at origination, but he was I became the fourth lender. The lowest defaults are those that remained at 4. A person who was at four and became three default increases who was at four and you became two, it slightly increases more.
And the reverse also was at four and became fifth. Obviously, in that case, the default rates skyrocket. But the lowest ones are the ones that remain stable with their outstanding and number of lenders. This is what is true in my portfolio. I don’t know if it’s true in others. And so you see, right, like I mean, only thing that you can kind of judge from that is to say that people who need money but don’t get money also will become defaulters. So it works both.
Bhavin Shah
Okay, thank you so much and all the best.
Alok J Patel
Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Chheda from Capital. Please go-ahead.
Ronak Chheda
Hi,, am I audible?
Alok J Patel
Yeah, please.
Ronak Chheda
Yeah., I have two questions. One is on the CGFMU. You just mentioned that your rejection rates are upwards of 80%, 82%, given that the industry has gone through a cleansing of your customers or the industry per se or whatever the rotten apples were and then at 80% rejection rate, how are you thinking of, you know going ahead and getting one more layer of security on the disbursements which we are doing?
And at what cost because you are stepping up on your underwriting staff, you’re stepping up on your collection staff. And now if you were to pay this premium, how does your economics work? If you could just highlight that?
Alok J Patel
No. So I mean so the CGFMU cost for us right now is about 1% a year for the principal outstanding of the customer, right? So over a period of time, let’s say 2%, 2% will be the cost of that. So, so — but when I said 3.5%, that basically that calculation comes in because they are not covering 100%, they are covering 72% and also there is some time value of money.
Jayendra B. Patel
So the first claim that you can really do is going to be almost 24 months from now kind of right.
Alok J Patel
Now that 2% kind of a cost theoretically can go up if your default rates are — so this is like the one year and obviously, depending on the default rate, they will reset it as time goes on. But that is what it is right now. So — but the first claim I don’t think will come in till 2026, yeah. It’s a long — it’s a long game. I mean it’s a long play. So I would not — but if I understood your question correctly, I think are you asking me that am I being too conservative? Is that did I read your question correctly?
Ronak Chheda
Yes. I understand when the first claim will come in. And I’m just asking where your rejection rates have gone up. We’ve gone through nine months of cleansing of the industry and Then we are adding one more layer of insurance. So just wanted to understand
Alok J Patel
— you are right. I mean that is definitely possible that you know, I’m being too pessimistic and everything like that. So as I said in my speech also that I’m happy to — we are happy to change our strategies even consider them every month or every week if need be or every day so un but until I’m comfortable, I don’t think I mean I mean this is not a casino, like I, I can’t I can’t take crazy bets. I mean theoretically if CGFMU is insurance 72%, I should go nuts, right?
Just start — just start lending, but let’s not — I don’t think that’s how it should work or can work. No,
Ronak Chheda
Got it. And my second question is on MSME. So your AUM last quarter was also around INR400 odd crores and this quarter is at INR410 crores. You did allude that management bandwidth is towards collection. But how should we think because your GNP, etc., asset quality numbers are in-line, what is happening here? Why are we not stepping up? Is there a concern in this segment also, which worries you?
Alok J Patel
So obviously, MSME credit costs have gone up and really you are just dealing with a different sub-segment of the same customer. They are cousin brothers only of MSIs, right? So it would be surprising if there was no impact. I mean, then that would definitely mean that something is amiss overall but there is just so much pressure in the market that you cannot push disbursements right now. So. So whatever is happening naturally is happening, rest of the time we are concentrating on quality.
So we’re not pushing anything. You know let this year end, there is about a month and a half to go. This year has been a wash. I don’t think it’s probably one of the worst years of my career, to be honest. But this let this year get over come April will you know, will take a rethink and restock of things, including policies on MSME and everything and whether we want to push growth or not push growth or whatever it is. So I don’t think that we are going to achieve much in the next month and a half even if we change our strategies right now.
Ronak Chheda
Got it. Thank you so much and best of luck.
Operator
Thank you. Next question
Alok J Patel
Will take — we’ll take a few more questions. Yeah.
Operator
The next question comes from the line of Srinath V from Bellswether Capital. Please go-ahead.
Srinath V
Hi, Alok. Just wanted to find out how has the experience been in the MSME business? Would it be possible to share X bucket zero DPD? How has been the credit experience when you’re balancing growth as well as collections in this particular product because I remember both were being handled by the same person.
Alok J Patel
Yeah. So last month was 98.8% was zero DPD, so not quite 99 plus, but better than MFI for sure. And yeah, I think NPAs and stuff looks similar, but you have to understand that you cannot just look at NPA, you have to look at NPA along with the impairment cost and provisions and everything. So whatever is written-off is not going to come in NPA. So by that respect, as Vivek said in MFI, we have written-off about INR45, while in MSME, we have written-off 5 odd crores of INR57 crores maybe.
So, yeah, I think Vivek, if you want to share MSME specific numbers, happy to share it. But
Vivek Modi
Generally,, I mean, in terms of the par numbers that we were discussing earlier on some of the questions and also in the presentation. The PAR par 31% to 90% is about 1.9%, so under 2%. And the NPA for MSME is about whatever, close to 3.5%. So overall, comparatively, the stress is lower. If you compare it with what it was last year, obviously, it has about 2.2 has grown to about 3.4 already and there have been much bigger write-offs that we’ve seen in MSME and Arman stand-alone.
So that’s where the stress in the unsecured can be fed in the Arman book as well. But on a kind of apple-to-apple comparison, the overall credit, stringent credit process that we followed over the years is, I mean, kind of giving better returns.
Srinath V
Got it. And given that the product has had a little better credit experience, are we looking to kind of what is the growth plan here from a say branch growth perspective, team addition, you know, because disbursements have — growth has kind of flattened out quarter-on-quarter. So are we looking to like take this to INR100 crore disbursement somewhere mid next year or something like that? Just want to get a broader understanding?
Alok J Patel
No. So we have grown by about 30% on a same quarter previous year to now. But yeah, in the past couple of quarters, it has flattened, specifically due to the microfinance stress. So I mean, I mean, obviously that has led to rejections.
Jayendra B. Patel
Rejection would automatically be felt here as well because if, let’s say there is an overlap customer who defaulted on microfinance loan or maybe some other place — some other place, plays the impact is going to be felt here in terms of the microfinance playout.
Alok J Patel
Yeah. So we are definitely not where we should be even in MSN, but I think you know, honestly, I would have expected a sort of a disbursement run-rate at this point of being at least around 50 crores to INR60 crores but clearly we are not there yet. We are at more around INR40 crores or so. So let’s say by first or second-quarter, we can reach somewhere in the neighborhood of INR60 odd crores of disbursement.
Srinath V
This is per month, right?
Alok J Patel
Sorry,
Srinath V
This is INR60 crore per month or per quarter
Alok J Patel
Per mainly per month.
Srinath V
Got it, got it.
Alok J Patel
We are not branches, we got to keep the OpEx down. Obviously, OpEx has gone up in an effort for this collection income is going down. So everything is out of. I cannot afford the P&L and my balance sheet cannot afford right now me going crazy and opening branches and is this — as I said, management bandwidth is also stretched trying to deal with these issues. So I understand MSME is doing better than micro, but you know there is. I mean there is no — there is no compound wall also sometimes.
I mean, whatever problems MFI is facing, some of it will into MS&E as well.
Srinath V
Got it. So at least it’s fair enough to assume that on the way out probably sometime mid next year, this would be one of the first businesses to start growing, right, meaning like where you go to like INR60 crore a month, so on and so for just fair understanding, right?
Alok J Patel
Yes, I agree. I see right now it’s very difficult for me to put pressure on anybody to disperse money. Let me be very frank with you. I cannot go to my business side and be like disperse targets, this and that. Whatever is naturally happening is happening. But yes, I call-in three times a day about collections, that’s for sure.
Srinath V
Got it. And last question is on LAP. You know-how is the pilot in Madhya Pradesh Telangana or what has been the broad feedback? Again there, what is our branch growth? How many branches are we in Gujarat, outside Gujarat? What is your broad thinking on putting up new branches?
And if there was like a kind of file per branch kind of vague number in your mind, is that also going to improve or largely are we looking at growth from just a branch perspective, you know, moving away from the slightly more sadder topics to something more interesting here?
Apurva Singh
Yeah, yeah. So thank you. And so overall in MP and Telangana, it’s too early. So we have just hired our team yet. Telangana, have you disbursed anything in Telangan? Very few files, but overall in micro
Alok J Patel
. I think you’ll get a better idea. So we had not dispersed till Q3.
Jayendra B. Patel
We’ve not in
Alok J Patel
January and we have started dispersing. We just hired a new guy who has some experience in secured and lap loans also. So right now, we are dispersing out of 15 branches, if I’m not mistaken, and we’ll probably expand that to at least 25 branches by next year.
Vivek Modi
So three kind of people have set-up there to about 19 odd branches as of December.
Srinath V
Got it. And how do you see 12 months like out from a — again, what are your broad plans on branch rollout and you know the team setting up and broader architecture or thought in your mind for that business?
Alok J Patel
For the Microlab side,
Srinath V
Yes, LAP.
Alok J Patel
Yeah. So we are — we have reached a run-rate of around INR3 crores a month. By that target was to reach around INR5 crores by year end obviously that was that did not happen but you know overall the good part about is that it does not run-down very quickly right because the tenures are longer. So while the disbursement run-rate, I don’t expect it to cross you know, INR5 crores, INR7 crores in the coming three, four quarters, but the portfolio will increase faster than disbursement — monthly disbursement run-rates because it’s longer tenure obviously perfect so we have a lap guy there.
We have hired people in Telangana MP Gujarat is obviously there, but — but I think as discussing with others also that probably Gujarat is not the best market for this product. Telangana will be slightly Southern markets are more favorable for these products. MP again there is good feedback we are getting for this product as well. But this might not be a product for all states because again the paperwork and all of those things are very important. So while you must find customers who are interested whether these are mortgageable properties at least to a reasonable extent.
I know that we are not going to get like a executable mortgage or whatever you Call-IT, but as long as we can get it to a point where we are comfortable, I’m okay to do it, but lot of places in rural and in tier board cities will not be there. The paperwork is just not there.
Srinath V
Cool. Thanks. Thanks a lot guys. I’ll get back into the question queue.
Operator
Thank you. The next question comes from Anand Mundra from Hitemple Capital. Please go-ahead.
Anand Mundra
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, what is the provision cover that we carry-on our Stage 2 bucket in number?
Vivek Modi
Yeah well, can you move on to the second question or just pull out this figure.
Anand Mundra
Sure.
Alok J Patel
So cover on Stage 2 bucket, so that is 30% to 90%.
Anand Mundra
Yes. So what I’m trying to basically understand is our current book has reached 98.1%, 98.2% kind of a ex bucket collection efficiency. So do we at least make a breakeven on the current book and whatever credit cost that has to accrue in future is only mainly going to come from the bucket that has already like the Stage 2, current stage-2 bucket, that’s what I’m just trying to understand. And is that understanding correct? Like do we at least make a breakeven at 98.1%, 98.2% current bucket efficiency?
Alok J Patel
Correct. So I mean, ballpark, you can make your calculations, but I cannot comment on this, but what is
Jayendra B. Patel
— what the provision cover is about 42% on the Phase-2.
Anand Mundra
Okay, sir. All right. Good. Okay. Okay.
Alok J Patel
That’s a PCL.
Jayendra B. Patel
That is the ECL
Anand Mundra
Okay. Okay. Sir, any comments on do we make a breakeven at least on the current book at a 98.2% kind of a collection efficiency.
Jayendra B. Patel
I can do the math, but I’m not sure will I’m not too sure whether I got the question right.
Alok J Patel
He is saying
Anand Mundra
I mean, there lot depends on flow
Jayendra B. Patel
Forward rates
Alok J Patel
Of other buckets, but he’s asking at 98.2%, are we at a breakeven stage. It’s — see there are too many wheels, there is OPEC, there is credit cost, there is, you know, lending cost — I’m sorry, borrowing cost and there is also interest income and many other factors.
Jayendra B. Patel
Again, I mean just to kind of keep it to your question only specifically, 98.2%, let’s say, is one part of the entire bucket. I mean, this probably might account for 95% of the revenue for me, but then the balance five is equally important. So, yeah. So the flow forward when we talk of the current bucket, it probably has the largest impact.
But flow forward that all the buckets are equally important. I mean, if I’ve written-off, let’s say, INR100 crores in last four quarters, it doesn’t mean that I’ve forgotten about them. I mean collection even if, let’s say 3% collection has to happen for them, that’s revenue for me. I mean,
Vivek Modi
Two-wheeler, it’s like 20% 25% zero DPD bucket, right, but you collect it by the month-end. So, but if current bucket collection as Alok said earlier, also a bit kind of is 99% that in the given this situation, that’s probably the best thing to have.
Alok J Patel
Yeah, that’s probably as — I mean it’s — you know, it’s like if you are going to a temple and asking and praying for something like don’t ask for a private jet, ask for something reasonable. So like 99, is it amazing? Probably not, but I’ll take it at this point. I can manage easily than that.
Anand Mundra
Got it, got it, got it. And sir, just I missed that how much — how much are we paying as premium on the CG FMU insurance that we are availing?
Alok J Patel
1% a year,
Anand Mundra
1% a year. Got it, got it. Okay, sir. That’s it from my end. Thank you.
Alok J Patel
Plus. So I guess 1.3%.
Anand Mundra
Yeah.
Operator
Thank you. Got it. Ladies and gentlemen, we would take that as a last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr Shreepal Doshi for closing comments.
Shreepal Doshi
Thanks. Thank you everyone for being part of the call and special thanks to the management of the company for giving us the opportunity to host this call. Thank you, sir, and have a good weekend, everyone, everyone.
Jayendra B. Patel
Thank you.
Alok J Patel
Thank you, everyone. Thank you.
Operator
Thank you. Sure. On behalf of Equirus Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines