Apollo Pipes Ltd (NSE: APOLLOPIPE) Q1 2026 Earnings Call dated Aug. 08, 2025
Corporate Participants:
Unidentified Speaker
Sameer Gupta — Chairman & Managing Director
Anubhav Gupta — Group Chief Strategy Officer
Ajay Kumar Jain — Chief Financial Officer
Analysts:
Unidentified Participant
Anshika Patnaik — Analyst
Aryamaan Agarwal — Analyst
Udit Gajiwala — Analyst
Sneha Talreja — Analyst
Yog Rajani — Analyst
Yog Rajani — Analyst
Parikshit Gupta — Analyst
Yash Modi — Analyst
Presentation:
operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q1FY26 earnings conference call of Apollo Pipes Ltd. Hosted by Systematic Institutional Equities. As a reminder, all participant lines will win the listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing Star then zero on attached and phone. Please note that this conference has been recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Ms. Anshika Pattnaik from Systematic Institutional Equities. Thank you. And over to you, ma’.
Anshika Patnaik — Analyst
Thank you. Muskaan. On behalf of Systematic Institutional equities we welcome you all to the Q1FY26 conference call of Apollo Pipes Limited. From the management side we have Mr. Sameer Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director. Mr. Arun Agarwal, Joint Managing Director. Mr. Ajay Kumar Jain, Chief Financial Officer. Mr. Anubhav Gupta, Group, Chief Strategy Officer. I will now hand over the call to CMD sir. Mr. Sameer Gupta for opening remarks.
Over to you, sir.
Sameer Gupta — Chairman & Managing Director
Thank you. Good afternoon everyone. This is Sameer Gupta, CMD of Apollo Pipes. I have joined today with Mr. Arun Agarwal, JMD, Mr. Ajay Jain, CFO and Mr. Anubhav Gupta, Group CSO. I would like to extend a warm welcome to all of you to our Q1 FY26 earnings call. As I had shared in our previous introductions, FY25 was one of the most challenging years for the PVC pipe industry. The sector faced significant headwinds due to weak end user demand and heightened volatility in raw material prices. Unfortunately, these pressures continued. The first quarter of FY26 was impacted primarily due to slowdown in both the private real estate sector and government infrastructure spendings.
On top of this, the frequent and sharp fluctuation in PPC resin prices triggered cautious behavior and continuous destocking by our channel partners. As a result, Apollo Pipes experienced a flat year on year performance in consolidated sales volume. And our margins were under pressure due to low capacity utilization and heightened competition across the sector. Despite this, we remain focused on our long term growth strategy and are actively executing a four pronged strategy to navigate the current environment. 1. Product portfolio expansion. Recently, we expanded our product range with the addition of PLV ducts, DWC pipe, PE gas pipe and PVCO pipe in the piping segment.
In addition, we have forayed into the UPVC doors and windows category further strengthening our presence in the building material space. These strategic additions align with our Vision to diversify into adjacent high growth and cater to the evolving needs of infrastructure, real estate and utility sector. Each of these products is intended to offer performance and durability, replacing conventional materials and opening up new markets opportunities for Apollo Pipes Second, improving product mix. We are increasing our focus on CPVC pipes which is currently contributing to 15% of our volume. We are in advanced discussions with the leading floor metal supplier to create a joint pitch and strengthen our presence in this high margin category.
Third West India Plant Ramp up with over one year of integration, our West India facility acquired last year is now seeing a steady ramp up in production. This plant is playing a key role in catering to the demand in Western region. 4th East India expansion Our new plant in Varanasi is on track and is expected to commence operations in the coming months. This will significantly strengthen our presence in Eastern Indian market. On the capital expenditure front, we continue to invest in building long term capacity. We incurred a capex of rupees 70 crores in Q1 following a spend of 166 crores in FY25.
We remain committed to expanding our total installed capacity to 2,86,000 tonnes over the next two years without adding any debt to our books. Our working capital cycle had remained disciplined at 38 days and we anticipate further improvement as operational efficiency scale up. Looking ahead, we expect a more favorable demand environment starting from September onwards as construction activities are likely to resume post monsoon. Additionally, increased comment spending on infrastructure projects should also boost liquidity and improve cash flows across the ecosystem.
That concludes our opening remarks. Now we are glad to take questions. Thank you.
Questions and Answers:
operator
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who who wishes to ask question may press star and one on the touchdown telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question Q, you may press The R&2 participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Aryaman Agarwal from Money Stories Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Aryamaan Agarwal
So in the coming year I was w ondering how the volume would pick up. In the PVC industry. As you could see throughout the industry.
operator
So your voice is not audible properly. Can you just.
Aryamaan Agarwal
Is it better now?
operator
Yes, go ahead. Thank you.
Aryamaan Agarwal
So saying, in the coming year, how would the volumes for PVC industry pick up? Look like the previous year was a little dull for the industry. And how do you expect the competition to be?
Anubhav Gupta
Hi everyone, Good afternoon, this is Anubhav here. Yes, so if you look at FY26, how it is panning out. Q1 was obviously, I would say pretty much washed out. April started on a good note, it did continue in May, but then by the time June came because of the onset of early monsoons, the quarter got washed out. And on yoy basis our volume is lower by 4% on console basis. As we are into current quarter. July, August things are slightly better than Q1, assuming that since monsoon came early, it will go early as well. And we are already seeing that some of the construction sites are being cleared up which were stuck because of heavy monsoon in last 60 days.
So by like end of August, early September, monsoon should go as well, right? Which will open up the construction sector in a big way. So Q2 should be better than Q1 in that sense. But I think one of the biggest challenges, what we are seeing is the overall slowdown in the government spends towards the infrastructure, right? And this we are witnessing across product verticals, not only in plumbing, but also construction material as a sector. If we look from macro perspective, I mean when we look at the quarter, one results from cement tiles, structural steel pipes, plywood, like all those sectors, so everyone is facing the heat of slowdown in the government spending.
So FY26, how we perform or this sector performs in second half, it will depend on a lot on how government spending picks up, which right now is not visible to the great extent. But yes, government has lot of commitments towards the large infrastructure projects. Some of the sectors which are critical, they are on priority list. So we assume that at some point of time government spends should kick start. And that’s when the whole construction material sector, including plumbing pipes would see a massive, massive improvement which has been lagging for last now continuously 18 to 20 months.
But like, you know, at micro level we are having lot of levers, right? Macro is one. But at micro level, the new product introduction, for example, window profiles which we launched last month. So we are seeing a good pipeline building up for that segment. And in next 18 months we will see good ramp up and quarter on quarter, you will see the contribution from this product line adding up to our overall top line. Then what we have done is to boost our product mix in terms of CPVC contribution, which has been stagnant at around 15, 16% for last two, three years.
We have tied up with one of the largest raw material manufacturers of CPVC resin, wherein we are going to co market the product, right? And that supplier is already approved with a lot of real estate developers and large projects. So benefits are already visible. That our CPVC sales are growing by like high double digit already. Right. This agreement we signed in July and it’s already visible. So CPVC will contribute a lot in the coming months. Then opvc, where we invested heavily last year in anticipation of good demand coming from replacement of DI pipes. So that has started but because it is dependent on government spends which right now are a bit subdued. But the good part, what the industry is doing is at least all the participants are going and making representations in front of the government authorities that you should approve OPVC over the traditional conventional product. And we are seeing good traction, good adoption from the government agencies.
So whenever state governments get funds to resume their water infrastructure improvement projects, we will see good demand from OPBC sector. Now this starts in Q3, Q4. It will depend on how government funds come up. Then we have added 2, 3 new product lines like duct pipes, DWC pipes and gas fitting pipes. Right. The idea is to test the waters in these product categories, make small investments and whichever product picks up, we increase the capacity and take it to the next level. So we assume, we are confident that these small segments will start contributing meaningfully over the next like you know, few quarters. And other than that we have our Varanasi plant which will start towards end of this calendar year. Right. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a big plant in terms of the universe. It’s going to cater to East India. Right.
We have been absent from that market. A lot of new construction infrastructure spends are coming up in, in eastern Uttar Pradesh and, and Bihar, Jharkhand belt. So that will give additional volumes. And now Kisan has been like almost 15 months into our possession. 14 months to be precise. And we have fixed lot of problems there. Right. One was of course the investment, what we made. But then other than that, the supply chain, the distribution network, a lot of issues what the company was Grappling for last 10, 12 years, we fixed those issues in last 13, 14 months. So we will start seeing the results as soon as we see some pickup in the end demand. Right. So we have a lot of levers. Ahriman. Right. So we believe that for FY26 we should be growing at double digit in terms of volume right now. Whether it is low double digit, mid double digit, I think things will be more clear how quarter two pans out.
Aryamaan Agarwal
Nice to hear that we have so. Many micro level levers to help with the macro scenario.
Anubhav Gupta
Thanks. Thanks Arman.
Aryamaan Agarwal
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and One to ask question. The next question is from the line of Surith Deep Patil from Eyesight Fine Trade Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yes, good afternoon to the Apollo Pipes team and my question is specifically to Mr. Anubhav Gupta. Is Mr. Anubhav Gupta online?
Anubhav Gupta
Yeah. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Yes sir. So my. I have a telescopic question for you. Going ahead, looking, looking forward. How is Apollo Pipes planning to expand its footprint into housing and infrastructure? And are you planning to integrate smart metering IoT enabled plumbing, plumbing systems or recycled poly polymer solutions into your product roadmap in the next five to 10, 10 years? And do you think this could possibly help Apollo Pipes position itself as a sustainability driven leader in the next gen water management? Yes, thank you. That was my question.
Anubhav Gupta
Hi Sujith. Good afternoon. So see, I mean if you look at our housing segment today, right. It contributes around 60% to our overall revenue which used to be like 40% five years back. Then it moved to 45, 50% two, three years ago and now today it is at 60%. And as all the new products, what we have added to our portfolio, this mix will keep on improving towards housing segment. Right? So eventually it should settle at around 70%, 75% in next three, four years. Now this smart metering, yes, we are hearing a lot of noise right from the government side. So we are evaluating this segment already. But nothing concrete is on drawing board as of now. Maybe in next three to four months we will be in position to tell you that how this segment is going to pan out. What are the government commitment commitments to focus on this segment? Because what we have seen is that unless there is a mega push from the government side, right.
To encourage household owners to go for smart metering etc. Things will not move. Right. We saw that in the electrical side as well. Correct. So we are having our like, we are being alert, right? We are alert how industry is going to shape up in terms of smart metering next five to ten years. Yes, definitely. It may become a significant portion of the housing plumbing industry in India. But time is not right as of now. But we are keeping our ears on the ground what’s happening there.
Unidentified Participant
Great, thank you very much. So I just, just confirming again. So. Plumbing integrating smart plumbing systems is in the cards of Apollo Pipes down the line. Yes,
Anubhav Gupta
Definitely yes and definitely yes. And we’re talking to some international players also that, that if at all there is demand in India, we should be ready with the technology.
Unidentified Participant
Great. Thank you for the insight and best of luck for all your Future endeavors. Thank you very much.
Anubhav Gupta
Thank you.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Bharat Kumar from Choice Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hello. Yeah, hello. Going hired 15%.
Anubhav Gupta
Bharat, can you please repeat the question?
Unidentified Participant
Hello.
Anubhav Gupta
Yeah, Bharat, go ahead. Can you please repeat your question?
Unidentified Participant
Yeah, one second. Like what is the CQC contribution going higher like current 15%.
Anubhav Gupta
So with all the, all the efforts what we are putting in to boost our CBBC sales, we are highly confident that the contribution will improve above 20% in next one to two years versus 15% today.
Unidentified Participant
Okay, fine. Thank you. That’s it.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants. You may press star and one to ask question. The next question is from the line of UDIT Garjiwala from yes securities limited. Please go ahead.
Udit Gajiwala
Yeah. Hi team. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking up my question. Can you please explain in Apollo pipes on a standalone basis do we have maintained the volumes Y and Y? But realization has taken a sharp knob. So is it purely because of raisin or would you like to elaborate more on the comparative intensity please?
Anubhav Gupta
So that there are both factors? Yes. One is that resin is down by two, three rupees a kilo. If you, if you look at like 1st April versus 30th June. Right. So some decline in the NSR definitely because of low resin prices. Yes. The competitive intensity is high at the moment because demand is sluggish. And each of the PVC pipe companies, each of the PVC pipe company has increased the capacities in last two, three years. So there is a pressure on, on all of us as a sector to ramp up the capacity. So we are seeing that players, right from the top leader to mid tier or the low tier, right. People are going very, very aggressive on reducing the selling prices just in order to fill their capacities. So yes, it’s a mix of both the factors.
Udit Gajiwala
Going ahead with this postponement in ADD and whatever the BIS thing which is expected only from Q3, how do you see specifically the standalone or Apollo pipes realization moving for the year and so on.
Anubhav Gupta
So I guess, I guess. See I’m in ns, we don’t give too much weightage which is related to the increase or decrease in the PVC prices because that is not in our control at all. Right. So if you look at our EBITDA spreads also we try to protect our EBITDA spreads in terms of rupees per ton or rupees per kilogram. Correct. So no comments on like how NSR would appear with the movement in the PVC prices. But we do believe that in next two to three months once the end demand picks up the aggression which is being shown by each of the PVC pipe companies that shall narrow down a bit. Right. And at industry level the selling prices, the NSR should inch up.
Udit Gajiwala
Got it, got it. And in terms of your product mix for the quarter or you know for the year, what would be the agri non agree mix if you can help with that. That’s it for me.
Anubhav Gupta
Yeah. So 60% is housing, 40% is agree.
Udit Gajiwala
For this quarter, right?
Anubhav Gupta
Yeah. For Q1. Yes.
Udit Gajiwala
Oh thank you Hon. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sneha from Nuama Wealth. Please go ahead.
Sneha Talreja
Hi, good afternoon team and thanks a lot for the opportunity. Just couple of questions here. Given there is current weakness in demand and of course we are hopeful of government picking, you know, spending picking up, things improving, would you like to give some guidance for this year in terms of volume growth both Kisan and you know, Apollo put together along with some margins improvement.
Anubhav Gupta
Sneha, we didn’t mention that we are looking for double digit growth. Definitely. Now in terms of volume now this is like low double digit, mid double digit. I mean right. This will. We will be more clear that how Q2 pans out. Right. And what we can tell you is that we are ready for high double digit growth also. Correct. For the rest of the eight months. But yes, lot will depend at how macro pans out. But worst case we would be growing our sales volume by double digit, low to mid double digit.
Sneha Talreja
And what about the margins? Where do you see margins going up? Because of course we have been speaking about going to double digit margins also. But even this particular quarter margin seems to be slightly on subtitle side. Of course there is competition, there is PVC price pressure. But given, let’s say you know once ADT is there into place what could a margin trajectory look like?
Anubhav Gupta
So if we so see in our business model we don’t look at percentage basis. Right. We look at rupees per ton. If you look at like Apollo pipes on standalone basis it’s at around 9,000 rupees a ton and Kisan is at 4,000 rupees a ton in Q1 definitely once the capacities are utilized further right from Q1 levels Apollo will go towards 10 to 11,000 rupees a ton which we have been present at this level for many quarters now. Correct. So we can hit 11,000 rupees per ton in pipes standalone. And Kisan has a lot of Room to improve. Correct. We are just waiting for a sales pickup. Revenue pickup. Whenever it happens, Kisan will immediately jump towards 7,8,000 rupees a ton.
Sneha Talreja
Understood? Understood. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press Star in one to ask questions. Question. The next question is from the line of Yogarajani from Omega Portfolios Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yog Rajani
Hi. Thanks for taking my question. So I have two questions. First being about the sales volume. So while we had a slightly negative sales volume Y o wise other PVC players have than would you say flattish to, you know, positive growth? So is there a reason why a company has what you say degrown slightly? Is it geography specific or is it just general overall?
Anubhav Gupta
So yog, if you look at the sales volume, mild sales volume which our competitors have delivered, right. You would also see that their margin in terms of rupees per kg that has also fallen very very sharply. Correct? So it is like clearly visible that I mean the competitors are reducing their NSR and compromising on margins way too much to demonstrate or to try to gain sales volume growth, right? So which we at some point stopped, right? Because I mean we are sure that. So one is that our fixed costs are under control, right? It’s not that we have too much of high fixed cost, right? So that we have to push our volumes way too much where we keep on compromising on our selling price and margins.
Second is that we are not losing confidence in the growth prospects of this industry, right? It just a kind of, I would say a weak bad phase which will go away because this stress in the industry and players selling below their like cost, right? Those smaller weaker players will vanish, right? And then and when with the demand coming back, the supply would be trimmed, right? So good days have to come back, right? They have to return. Which we are hopeful should happen from Q3 onwards. Correct. So we are not too much bothered or concerned about having like mild volume growth and further compromise our spreads.
Yog Rajani
Fair enough. Because historically we’ve always gained market share. So along those lines I wanted to understand what is our market share today and what is our goal for market share couple of years later, right?
Anubhav Gupta
So see, I mean with the revenue run rate what we are having today is around 1200, 1300 crores on full year basis, right? And the industry should be like around 40, 45,000 crores, right? So that way our market share is around 2.5% or 3%. Yog.
Yog Rajani
And what would we be expecting as a market share say five years later or three Years later.
Anubhav Gupta
Right. So see, I mean the capacity is what we have put in of almost 286,000 tonnes. Right now it is to 2230. But eventually it will move to 286,000 tonnes in next one to one and a half years. Now that will give us revenue of around 3000 crores. Yog. Right. And the industry make. And we expect that to achieve in next three, four years. Of course it keeps on like getting extended because macro hasn’t supported us at all. So at 3000 crore revenue with the industry size of like 50, 50,000 crores let’s assume, right. Our market share should be like 5%.
Yog Rajani
Okay. Brilliant. Another question about the conversion of warrants. Could you give us some color about what’s been happening regarding that? Has more money been taken by the company f rom the warrants?
Anubhav Gupta
Yeah. Right. So we did issue warrants last quarter. Right. To an Oman based fund, Kitara Capital. Right. The total investment is 110 crore rupees. 25% money came last quarter. Right. The idea is to. Because these are tough times. Right. But we keep. But we have been into hyper capex mode. Yog. Right. And we want to continue to build capacities for new products to cater into new geographies since earnings are slow. Right. So cash flow generation is also slow. Correct. So we want to ensure that our balance sheet doesn’t get stretched at any level to fund this capex. So we are happy to raise capital and fund this capex because we know that whenever industry will turn around the revenue, I mean we could, we would sweat like you know these assets at 2 and a half seat time which is the average for this industry. Industry. Our return profile including roe it will boost a lot. Right. But we don’t want to strain our balance sheet at any given point of time.
Yog Rajani
Yes, I fully agree. We wanted to understand the quantum that has been received and what is left outstanding and when we would see that if you could just give that breakup.
Anubhav Gupta
So I told you now 110 crore is a total investment commitment. 25% came in last quarter. Rest 75% will come in within next 18 months.
Yog Rajani
Okay. All right. Thank you so much.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants. You may press Star in one to ask question. The next question is from the line of Parishik Gupta from Fair Value Capital. Please go ahead. I’m sorry to interrupt. Your voice is not clear so your voice isn’t audible properly. Hello. So I just request you to rejoin the queue again. The next question is from the line of sneha from Noama wealth, please go ahead.
Sneha Talreja
Hi Dean, thanks a lot for the follow up opportunity. Just wanted to deep dive a bit into your capex. You have been into the Capex mode for quite some time now. What is the capex which is likely to get completed this particular year? And with the total cross block, where can you see your top line? And similarly the second part of the question would be you have been mentioning about higher competitor intensity which is, you know, leading to of course, you know, the volumes not being achieved for a while now. Just wanted to understand, you know, when do you see this competitive intensity easing out? You also mentioned that you know, smaller players will die up. Are you seeing any of these activities actually happen on ground?
Anubhav Gupta
Thanks Neha. So coming to the first part which is for the capex commitments we have, right? So today we are at a capacity of around 230,000 tonnes, right? And in our current business plan we will take it to 285,000 tonnes. Now the residual capex to achieve this is around 100 crore rupees, right? In Q1 we already spent 68, 69 crore rupees. Correct. And in rest of three quarters we should be another 70, 80 crore rupees, right? And when we enter into FY26 some residual 30, 40 crore may be left over. Okay, so one is that.
And then once industry gets like, you know, in a, in a better mode which we expect say next six to nine months then we will take a call to see if we have to go for a greenfield plant in South India which is definitely in our wish list. But time is not right for now and it may require another 150, 200 crore kind of investment whenever we think about it. But nothing on drawing board as of now. And that will be funded from internal cash flows. I mean you have seen that our working capital is getting better year on year. Right now we are at 35 to 40 days. This will go towards 30 days of cycle, right? Maybe by end of FY26 or first half of FY27 and it should remain between 25 to 30 days at a sustainable rate going forward.
And. Yeah, go ahead.
Sneha Talreja
What I actually want to understand is, you know, when I was asking you about the competitive intensity and the capex, what I understand is we are already operating at about 45, 50% utilization. That means there is immense scope of improvement here. While that being there we are further adding capacity is actually like a demand, a problem or computer intensity is a problem. Because if computer intensity is a problem properly do we have answers to when it gets easier. And you know, when are we likely to utilize this capacity? That’s a broader question I’m just trying to ask.
Anubhav Gupta
Sure. So Sneha, see, I mean both are linked, right? Why there is hyper competition in the industry today? Because demand has slowed down. And second in last four, five years, a lot of capacity came up. Correct. So what had happened was that after Covid, right. Next two, three years, like from 2020 to 2020 23, those three years, demand was very strong, especially in the PVC plumbing sector, right? Plus agri. Because government had lot of push on the infrastructure which boosted sales for HDP pipes, etc. Housing, plumbing. You yourself know that after Covid, the home improvement segment in India, it started doing pretty well. So each construction material performed pretty well, including, including PVC pipes. And then there was increase in PVC resin, right. From 70, 80 rupees a kilo, it moved to 170, 180 rupees a kilo. Right. So during that time, all the players thought that this golden period would continue. Right. And in participation they increased their capacities. Right? The top players were having strong balance sheets. So the capacities came without that, smaller players, they had smaller balance sheets. So they leveraged and put up the capacities. Now last two years have been bad in terms of demand, right. And. And it increased the competitive intensity now.
Right? Demand is less, supply is more. So each player wants to fill its capacity. Correct. And that’s why this decline in the EBITDA spreads for the companies in last seven, eight quarters you would see, right? Including the leaders. But what happens is that we are at a time when companies like, you know, organized players, top seven, eight companies are operating with margins which was like 5, 6% lower than what they were operating two years ago, three years ago. Correct. So players who were operating at 7, 8% margin, now they’re operating at like, you know, they’re barely breaking even.
So at some point of time those players will go away. Correct. And. And yes, we are already seeing lot of deals on the table. Correct. In like weaker players, capacity is coming for sale. I mean, every day, every week a banker would show us a deal. Right? So definitely there is a lot of stress, right? I think it is just a matter of a few quarters that we will see lot of cleanup in the sector. And after that gets cleared up, we will be like, you know, few of the large ones and strong medium ones who will be again controlling the market. So till that time, the pain may continue, right? The pain may continue. But yes, at some point, I mean, will it Will reverse for sure.
Sneha Talreja
That was quite helpful. Thanks. Thanks.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parishik Gupta from Fair Value Capital. Please go ahead. Yes sir. But your voice is still breaking. You just go ahead with the question. Hello. Can you just go with your question please again?
Parikshit Gupta
Sorry, I’ve been trying to talk but. There is some now it’s fine.
operator
Sorry, it’s little bit fine.
Parikshit Gupta
Okay. More on the process.
operator
No sir, we can’t hear you properly.
Parikshit Gupta
Is it?
operator
No sir, we can’t hear you properly. You can’t get your question what you’re asking. You can disconnect the call and again rejoin the call. A reminder to all the participants. You can press star and one to ask question. Sam, the next question is down the. Line of Karan B from amc. Please go ahead.
Unidentified Participant
Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity. How do you see the ROCE calculation now? Assuming that PVC prices move up by 5 to 6 rupees even if any of these 1bis or ATD come through by the year end. Am I audible?
Anubhav Gupta
Yeah, yeah. So Karan, see I mean ROC is something what we see, right? Optically it is like very, very low and very concerning for us, right? But one thing, what makes us confident that at least we are on right track, right? To achieve the desired ROC levels upward of like above 20%, right? Which we have always maintained. So why it is low today is that we have invested almost like 800 crore rupees in gross block today, right? And 200 crore is our working capital, right? So 1000 crore is what our capital employed today. Near about.
And it is generating revenue of around 1200, 1300 crore rupees with EBITDA of 100 crore rupees, right? 90 to 100 crore rupees. So that’s why it appears low single digit. But this thousand crore of working, this capital employed, it can generate 2,500 to 3,000 crore kind of revenue, right? And 250 to 300 crores kind of EBITDA. Right? At same capital employed we need not hardly 100. One hundred and fifty crore rupees will be further invested from here on to achieve that 2500-3000 crore of revenue. So. So. So. So it happens in two year, three years, right? And then you will see that improvement in ROC which will be very very sharp, right? From 1200 we go to 14, 1500 and then 2000, 2500, 3000. So we can promise you Karan that our capital employment will not increase to achieve these revenue numbers. Because we are already heavily invested. In the business in terms of gross block. And working capital will only get better right in number of days. So absolute working capital will may remain same even if we grow at 25, 30, 30% revenue for the next three, four years.
Unidentified Participant
And just wanted to understand. Kisan has been delivering very strong gross margins but it has not been translated into operating profits and net profits. So what is our role maybe in a year’s time, how do we plan to have some profitability where the EBITDA and the PAT levels.
Anubhav Gupta
So Karan, like you rightly pointed out that yes, gross spreads in Kisan are very, very encouraging right now. Why it doesn’t translate into better EBITDA spreads only because of like low capacity utilization. Right? I mean the company has been in the range of like 280, 300 crore kind of revenue, right? Which, which it should generate like you know, five 600 crore rupees. So that is the capacity which is already there. And some of the fixed costs are also aligned as per that. Okay. So it’s a matter of like a few quarters. When we see like its revenue jumping 25, 30% y o y, you’ll see that translation now better gross spreads moving down the EBITDA level.
Unidentified Participant
And you mentioned a few inorganic opportunities which are there on the table. So are we evaluating that as well? Because I believe greenfield capacities will take a year and year and a half and again six months to stabilize. So in case if you feel that PVC prices will kind of move north so it’s better for you to have a ready capacity.
Anubhav Gupta
So it’s only South India we are wanting to have a full fledged plant, Karan. Right. I mean we have not got any opportunity on that table which, which mirrors what we want in South India. Like full fledged plant like Kasan Invest was mirrored of like you know, actually planted plant in Maharashtra. But, but so far nothing on our table which could mirror what we want in South India.
Unidentified Participant
Right, Got it. Thank you. Thank you for the detailed explanation. Let’s remind.
operator
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yash Modi from Ashikat Group. Please go ahead.
Yash Modi
Good afternoon to the team. Sir, could you highlight more on how our order book is panning out on the UPVC door and window segment. How has the response been? And secondly also on the newer products that we are looking at like especially DCW pipes or some of the newer products that we are trying to get into. If you could elaborate more on that as well.
Anubhav Gupta
So yes, UPBC, we just started the commercial production, right? I mean 15 days ago, you Must have looked at our press release. So right now we are at a point where we are going and aggressively pitching this product to the key stakeholders which are mainly contractors, real estate companies and government agencies. It requires a lot of approvals. Right. So order booking is building up. Right. For the full year we should be doing kind of 50 crore kind of revenue from this vertical. But most of this will come in like second half, right. Q2 will not be a significant number. But. But what we can tell you is that the response, what we are getting from the contractors and developers today, we are confident that full year we should close around 50 crore rupees and which will mainly come in the second half.
Yash Modi
Got it, Got it. And secondly on the newer products, especially something like DCW pipe, what is the thought process and how are we looking at it going forward? Because the capacity that we had initially planned, we would have planned. Did we have these newer products in mind or is it more of a case of just trying to sweat our assets more?
Anubhav Gupta
So see, I mean we had space available in our plants, right? So it’s just installation of a machine. Right. Which doesn’t require any Greenfield capex. Right? It’s more of Brownfield capex. Now the idea to get into these product categories is of course diversify our portfolio. Right. Some of the products are sold through same channel. Right. For some product we need to create new channel like for UPVC for gas pipes. Right. We will. We are creating totally new channel and any product may click. Right. And then we can go big on that. So that’s the idea, right? To keep on introducing new products, experimenting with new product lines and have something in our kitty which can contribute like 5 to 10% to our overall revenue. Right. So that’s how we would be achieving 20, 25% of revenue growth on a long term basis. Yash.
Yash Modi
Got it. Got it. All the best, sir. Thank you.
operator
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask question. That was the last question. I would now hand the conference over to Mr. Ajay Kumar Jain, Chief Financial Officer for the closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Ajay Kumar Jain
Thank you all for taking the time out to join us on this call. I hope we have been able to answer all your questions satisfactorily. Should you need any further clarifications or would like to know more about the company, please feel free to contact our team. Thank you Once again.
operator
Thank you. On behalf of systematic institutional equities. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines thank you.